Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

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stargazer
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Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by stargazer » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:53 pm

Given the changes in federal tax law that took effect in 2018, I am having trouble figuring out what my tax liability will be, and what my withholding should be. Can anyone refer me to a source of mock-up IRS forms into which I can plug numbers to get a ballpark idea of what I will owe?

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm


delamer
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by delamer » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:01 pm

The TaxCaster App.

It is set up for 2017 taxes, but has an option called “Looking at 2018” that takes whatever information you enter and determines your 2018 federal taxes.

jacoavlu
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by jacoavlu » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:30 pm


kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:44 pm

jacoavlu wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:30 pm
I think this one works pretty well

https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/tru ... calculator
does it have inputs for SS , LTCG/QDIV income?

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One Ping
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by One Ping » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:47 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
Just tested this one against my own spreadsheet set-up. Results were within a couple of hundred dollars (<1% difference). Pretty good consider the granularity of the allowed inputs. Would be nice if they allowed you to input actual numbers instead of using slider bars.
jacoavlu wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:30 pm
I think this one works pretty well

https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/tru ... calculator
This one was not as intuitively friendly. It required you to so some 'consolidation of numbers' work before entering the totals into one of just a few inputs. Was harder for me to get the 'right' answer compared to my own calculations ... took several tries to fully understand what some of the input boxes were supposed to include.

One Ping
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."

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One Ping
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by One Ping » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:48 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:44 pm
jacoavlu wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:30 pm
I think this one works pretty well

https://www.calcxml.com/calculators/tru ... calculator
does it have inputs for SS , LTCG/QDIV income?
Those were some of the things I had to play around with to get right. I liked the one you (kaneohe) recommended.
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:05 pm

One Ping wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:47 pm
kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
.................................. Would be nice if they allowed you to input actual numbers instead of using slider bars.

..................................
One Ping
You can enter actual numbers in the boxes.........I thought the sliders were just reflecting the numbers input!
I guess there are analog folks and digital ones.....takes all kinds to make up the world :happy

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One Ping
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by One Ping » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:27 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:05 pm
You can enter actual numbers.........I thought the sliders were just reflecting the numbers input!
I guess there are analog folks and digital ones.....takes all kinds to make up the world :happy
:oops: I see now ...

In re-doing my taxes using exact numbers it's still within 1% but, it seems the tax owed is slightly different between their tool and my spreadsheet (couple of hundred dollars out of about $20K). Likely something is different between implementations of the "Qualified Dividends and Capital Gains Tax Worksheet". I'll take a look at my sheet again. I think it's doing it correctly, though.
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."

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FiveK
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by FiveK » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:21 am

Might as well add the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet to this list.

Previous versions have matched our TurboTax results, and it appears to have all the 2018 changes that will apply to us.

nolesrule
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by nolesrule » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:39 am

FiveK wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:21 am
Might as well add the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet to this list.

Previous versions have matched our TurboTax results, and it appears to have all the 2018 changes that will apply to us.
2018 numbers have matched my custom spreadsheet within a rounding error. Of course, taking the standard deduction and no AMT have simplified things this year a bit.

tomd37
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by tomd37 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:49 am

Kaneohe - I like the calculator but where is capital gain distributions entered?
Tom D.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:19 pm

tomd37 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:49 am
Kaneohe - I like the calculator but where is capital gain distributions entered?
tomd..........see those wide V's on the right hand side.........click on those and the whole category expands to give you the detail you want. I like the one page format so I don't have to look thru a whole bunch of stuff when I'm changing one thing.....as I have to w/ Taxcaster and the HR Block tax calculator.

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One Ping
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by One Ping » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:52 pm

One Ping wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:27 pm
:oops: I see now ...

In re-doing my taxes using exact numbers it's still within 1% but, it seems the tax owed is slightly different between their tool and my spreadsheet (couple of hundred dollars out of about $20K). Likely something is different between implementations of the "Qualified Dividends and Capital Gains Tax Worksheet". I'll take a look at my sheet again. I think it's doing it correctly, though.
Found it. Had a typo. Now the two agree dead-nuts on. Nice simple format and gives a quick, accurate answer.
:beer
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:56 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
I went through that with an approximation of mine. I used 40k pension, 18k dividends, 16k qualified, 3k capital loss. It looked like the tax computation was about right, but I didn't like this:
Your taxes are estimated at $3,710. Your outstanding tax bill $3,710.
This is 6.74% of your total income of $55,000. Your total tax payments and refundable credits for the year were $0. Your outstanding tax bill is estimated at $3,710. Your income puts you in the 22% tax bracket.
No, it doesn't. My ordinary income is about 27k, well under the 22% line. They're counting the qualified dividends for determining marginal bracket, which isn't correct.

Although one way to look at it is that the true marginal bracket is 27%, as discussed on the forum in the past. A dollar of new income is taxed at 12% AND it pushes a dollar of qualified dividends out of the 0% QD bracket into the 15%.

My true situation for 2018 is more complicated, as I worked for one month, put tax-deferred money into a 401(k) and got lump sum payouts for sick leave and vacation.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:58 pm

One Ping wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:52 pm
One Ping wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:27 pm
:oops: I see now ...

In re-doing my taxes using exact numbers it's still within 1% but, it seems the tax owed is slightly different between their tool and my spreadsheet (couple of hundred dollars out of about $20K). Likely something is different between implementations of the "Qualified Dividends and Capital Gains Tax Worksheet". I'll take a look at my sheet again. I think it's doing it correctly, though.
Found it. Had a typo. Now the two agree dead-nuts on. Nice simple format and gives a quick, accurate answer.
:beer
good job! Nice to know the calculator held up to the challenge.

tomd37
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by tomd37 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Kaneohe - I assume because capital gain distributions are taxed the same way as qualified dividends the amount of those distributions could be added to qualified dividends for entry in this calculator. I am accustomed to entering those two items separately in TCE software programs and was looking for the same in this calculator. Anyway everything came out equal to what I had calculated manually several months ago when figuring my 2018 tax bill. It will all change a bit since I just increased this year's QCDs by another $2K and took them this past week. Thanks for posting that calculator.
Tom D.

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FiveK
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by FiveK » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:14 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
That, unfortunately, is wrong for the refundable part of the Child Tax Credit: it allows $2K/child but the law allows only $1400/child.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:17 pm

tomd37 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:06 pm
Kaneohe - I assume because capital gain distributions are taxed the same way as qualified dividends the amount of those distributions could be added to qualified dividends for entry in this calculator. I am accustomed to entering those two items separately in TCE software programs and was looking for the same in this calculator. Anyway everything came out equal to what I had calculated manually several months ago when figuring my 2018 tax bill. It will all change a bit since I just increased this year's QCDs by another $2K and took them this past week. Thanks for posting that calculator.
going to call you "2 speedy" :happy from now on.............if you go a bit further down below the DIV/QDIV inputs, you will find the ST/LT CG inputs.
Last edited by kaneohe on Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 pm

FiveK wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:14 pm
kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
That, unfortunately, is wrong for the refundable part of the Child Tax Credit: it allows $2K/child but the law allows only $1400/child.
fortunately doesn't affect me but I'm sure the creator of that calculator would welcome inputs and darts to help improve the tool.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:31 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:56 pm
kaneohe wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 pm
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calc ... ulator.php

This is a nice 1 pg calculator.
.................................................., but I didn't like this:
Your taxes are estimated at $3,710. Your outstanding tax bill $3,710.
This is 6.74% of your total income of $55,000. Your total tax payments and refundable credits for the year were $0. Your outstanding tax bill is estimated at $3,710. Your income puts you in the 22% tax bracket.
No, it doesn't. My ordinary income is about 27k, well under the 22% line. They're counting the qualified dividends for determining marginal bracket, which isn't correct.

.....................................................................................
unfortunately this seems to be a common way of doing things? perhaps because it is simple. It is somewhat useful tho if you understand what they are doing.......it does determine taxation of the QDIV/LTCG to know what bracket they (and taxable income) are in and as you point out, marginal bracket is a whole different thing because it depends on the mix of types of income.

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FiveK
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by FiveK » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:31 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 pm
fortunately doesn't affect me but I'm sure the creator of that calculator would welcome inputs and darts to help improve the tool.
Possibly, but it isn't immediately obvious how to do so.

The direct access to the creator/supporter of tools such as Retiree Portfolio Model, 2018 Federal Income Tax Estimator, and the aforementioned personal finance toolbox spreadsheet seems a nice touch.

Of course, getting the correct answer is most important - when multiple tools do so, it then becomes a matter of taste for which is "better".

The "what if?" worksheets of TurboTax, TaxAct, etc. may also be useful.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:37 pm

kaneohe wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:31 pm
unfortunately this seems to be a common way of doing things? perhaps because it is simple. It is somewhat useful tho if you understand what they are doing.......it does determine taxation of the QDIV/LTCG to know what bracket they (and taxable income) are in and as you point out, marginal bracket is a whole different thing because it depends on the mix of types of income.
Yeah, I didn't have any quibble with the computed taxes, looked about right without me getting out the new tax table and breaking down the ordinary income. At that point I wouldn't need a taxcaster.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:51 pm

FiveK wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:31 pm
kaneohe wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 pm
fortunately doesn't affect me but I'm sure the creator of that calculator would welcome inputs and darts to help improve the tool.
Possibly, but it isn't immediately obvious how to do so.

...............................................
You are correct.........best I could find was this w/ a phone number at the bottom of the linked page. Perhaps
they could provide an e-mail address. Dinkytown looks to be the same as the 1040 mortgage calculator.

https://www.dinkytown.net/taxes.html

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Electron
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by Electron » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:05 pm

The Mortgage Calculator site provides a page where you can send comments or ask questions.

Refer to the bottom of the page.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/contact/
Electron

kaneohe
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Re: Mock-Up IRS Forms for 2018 Tax Year

Post by kaneohe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:00 pm

Electron wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:05 pm
The Mortgage Calculator site provides a page where you can send comments or ask questions.

Refer to the bottom of the page.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/contact/
Good eyes and great find!

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