Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

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LadyIJ
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Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm

I found this online - memo to National Association of Insurance Carriers:

22. What changes are made to Guaranteed Issue requirements?
Since two of the current guaranteed issue plans, Plans C and F, will no longer be available for "newly eligible" Medicare Beneficiaries on or after January 1, 2020, Plans D and G will become two of the guaranteed issue plans for these individuals. Current enrollees can remain with or buy Plans C and F and individuals who do not fall within the definition of “newly eligible” Medicare beneficiary will still be able to purchase Plans C and F.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ijBGY7sJEF

I guess I'll have to share this information with the insurance agents and benefits managers.

drawpoker
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:43 pm

Oh, boy. We are really running amok now. Think the problem is : people are throwing around these terms as tho they are interchangeable, synonymous.

For starters, under present law, Plan G (along with Plan N) is not among those Plans that are listed as approved for Guaranteed Issue period. What does this mean?
Guaranteed issue means that the premium prices will be exactly the same (no underwriting) as if the person was buying under Open Enrollment. A good thing. Being that G and also N had been excluded from this, it meant that a person who was buying a Medigap policy outside of Open Enrollment could not get a "good deal" if they Wanted Plan G. Now that they are changing this, people who wish to buy Plan G and are entitled to G.I. rates, ergo, can get a "good deal".

(Why this G.I. emblem has not been extended to include Plan N as well :?: I dunno )

But - to complicate things even more - when people/agents speak of Plan F Will Be Replaced with G - just as you titled your thread here - what that is referring to is -

Presently there is no such thing as High-Deductible Plan G. Or, for that matter, any other High-Deductible Plan for any of the other supplements other than Plan F. Soooo, with the coming phase-out of Plan F to new enrollees, that means that HD Plan F is also going away.
Voila ! There you are! Our gumbmint has created a new creature, High=Deductible Plan G ! Hooray!

However, if you read carefully thru the F.A.Q section in link you provided here, it actually answers question you posed in the other thread, i.e., since you won't be deemed a "newly eligible" in 2020, could you still buy Plan F or Plan C?
From what I gleaned from the answer, only retirees whose group plan did not require them to sign up for Part B at age 65 would be termed to be in the non-newly eligible class. And, therefore, among the few able to still buy a new Plan F after Jan 1, 2020

Maybe I am missing something here :idea: But that is my take from the link you gave.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:56 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (Medicare).
drawpoker wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:43 pm
However, if you read carefully thru the F.A.Q section in link you provided here, it actually answers question you posed in the other thread, i.e., since you won't be deemed a "newly eligible" in 2020, could you still buy Plan F or Plan C?
Here's the other thread: Medicare Supplement question re Guarantee Issue
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LadyIJ
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:50 am

I went to SHIP today, and sadly, the person knew less than I do. I still believe from my own research, that when Plans C and F are not available as "Guarantee Issue" plans, they will offer Plan G . . .

Mitchell777
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Mitchell777 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:24 am

I'm trying to decide between F and G now. I thought my insurance agent said I could take G now and still move into F in the future if I decided to make that change (if medical underwriting accepted). My bigger concern is F closing in 2020 to new people. Seems like for the most part the youngest people in F will be 65 in 2020. Ten years later the youngest will be 75. I'm struggling to understand how the rates can not very significantly increase and as they do increase the healthiest people may leave F, further increasing the cost. Although since it is only supplemental, and not the full blown medical insurance, perhaps it's not as serious a problem. I don't know.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:56 am

Mitchell777 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:24 am
I'm trying to decide between F and G now. I thought my insurance agent said I could take G now and still move into F in the future if I decided to make that change (if medical underwriting accepted). My bigger concern is F closing in 2020 to new people. Seems like for the most part the youngest people in F will be 65 in 2020. Ten years later the youngest will be 75. I'm struggling to understand how the rates can not very significantly increase and as they do increase the healthiest people may leave F, further increasing the cost. Although since it is only supplemental, and not the full blown medical insurance, perhaps it's not as serious a problem. I don't know.
I think G is more desirable -- the only difference is the $183 deductible, and most of the annual premiums for G are $183 cheaper or MORE. Yes, I've also read the those who remain in F may get bigger increases due to the older demographic going forward in F. But who knows for sure. I'm shooting for Plan G.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Prudence » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:00 pm

FYI, we had Plan F in 2016 and 2017 and were very happy with it. We switched to Plan G in January and have been very happy so far.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by cashmoney » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm

Mitchell777 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:24 am
I'm trying to decide between F and G now. I thought my insurance agent said I could take G now and still move into F in the future if I decided to make that change (if medical underwriting accepted). My bigger concern is F closing in 2020 to new people. Seems like for the most part the youngest people in F will be 65 in 2020. Ten years later the youngest will be 75. I'm struggling to understand how the rates can not very significantly increase and as they do increase the healthiest people may leave F, further increasing the cost. Although since it is only supplemental, and not the full blown medical insurance, perhaps it's not as serious a problem. I don't know.


You are right whether you have the plan c,f,d ,g ,f ,g or n what will come out of you pocket is minimal.Maybe consider the F and G if you primarily use providers who dont accept assignment i.e Mayo Clinic.Otherwise chose the plan with the best premium and rate stability.Note one carrier may be more competitive with plan N and another with plan G and this situation may be reversed in a different geographic area..Most agents are honest but watch out for the ones who steer you to the F or G plan when N may be a better value because of increased commission for them due to bigger premium.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:23 pm

Mitchell777 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:24 am
I'm trying to decide between F and G now. I thought my insurance agent said I could take G now and still move into F in the future if I decided to make that change (if medical underwriting accepted). My bigger concern is F closing in 2020 to new people. Seems like for the most part the youngest people in F will be 65 in 2020. Ten years later the youngest will be 75. I'm struggling to understand how the rates can not very significantly increase and as they do increase the healthiest people may leave F, further increasing the cost. Although since it is only supplemental, and not the full blown medical insurance, perhaps it's not as serious a problem. I don't know.
There have been several threads on this in the past. Personally, I dumped plan C for G last year

edit: Also switched DW out of C to N. I would have liked to take her to G too, but there's no way she could pass underwriting. So when Blue Cross offered the opportunity for current subscribers to switch to N, I jumped at it.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:44 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:50 am
I went to SHIP today, and sadly, the person knew less than I do.......
That's not good to hear :(

Didn't the worker even offer to take the questions to a supervisor? Maybe another branch office/ with someone more experienced?

Are you in some little bitty place, far from Chicago or suburbs? I bet the Chicago offices would be more on the ball with this.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:33 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:44 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:50 am
I went to SHIP today, and sadly, the person knew less than I do.......
That's not good to hear :(

Didn't the worker even offer to take the questions to a supervisor? Maybe another branch office/ with someone more experienced?

Are you in some little bitty place, far from Chicago or suburbs? I bet the Chicago offices would be more on the ball with this.
No a nice suburb, I'm going back and requested a different person next Friday, and I will be at ss early in August. I think I know what I'm going to do, but this is disheartening for all the boomers and older that it is so difficult to get information.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:34 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:33 pm

....... this is disheartening for all the boomers and older that it is so difficult to get information.
Yes. But at least be thankful this person was honest, and candidly admitted they didn't know.
What would be more disheartening if these S.H.I.P. people were freely giving out the Wrong Information

:x

Good luck! Only other thing I could think of - since this involves federal matters, it couldn't hurt, and it wouldn't cost you anything, to make a phone call to your Congressman's district office and ask them to assist you. He/she would put their staff on it to research by contacting CMS directly.
Might be worth a shot. :|

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:14 am

drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:34 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:33 pm

....... this is disheartening for all the boomers and older that it is so difficult to get information.
Yes. But at least be thankful this person was honest, and candidly admitted they didn't know.
What would be more disheartening if these S.H.I.P. people were freely giving out the Wrong Information

:x

Good luck! Only other thing I could think of - since this involves federal matters, it couldn't hurt, and it wouldn't cost you anything, to make a phone call to your Congressman's district office and ask them to assist you. He/she would put their staff on it to research by contacting CMS directly.
Might be worth a shot. :|
That's a great idea, thank you! and by the way, he did give me mis-information possibly. He said once I start my previous employer's supplemental plan, I could switch over to Medicare Supplements anytime I please with Guaranteed Issue. I am reading as I type from the "Medicare Supplement Rights and Guarantees" on their website stating "If your employer plan is secondary to Medicare and YOU ELECT to disenroll, you have NO GUARANTEED ISSUE RIGHTS." hmmm.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by khh » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:25 am

drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:34 pm

Good luck! Only other thing I could think of - since this involves federal matters, it couldn't hurt, and it wouldn't cost you anything, to make a phone call to your Congressman's district office and ask them to assist you. He/she would put their staff on it to research by contacting CMS directly.
Might be worth a shot. :|
I wrote my congressman last week re Plan G guaranteed issue and got the following reply =>
Dear Mr. ______

Thank you for contacting me regarding questions about Medigap policy. I have contacted the Congressional liaison at CMS and received the following information:

"The [state omitted] Department of Insurance oversees the selling of Medigap policies so the SHIP may be able to get the clarification/explanation your constituent is looking for. There are a lot of different scenarios and the SHIP office should be able to explain based on his specific situation.

https://www.medicare.gov/supplement-oth ... arios.html "

(remainder was just an explanation of what SHIP is)
I had included the same link in the email to my congressman as the one included in the reply. At least my query was answered promptly :)

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:24 pm

"......(remainder was just an explanation of what SHIP is) "
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe you could write the congressman back. Tell him he is mistaken in his explanation of SHIP acronym

Tell him it stands for

Seniors Hopelessly Inept Planning

:( :( :( :(

CULater
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by CULater » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:36 pm

For some reason insurers in my area don't seem to offer Plan G -- I wonder why?
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

drawpoker
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:54 pm

Short answer - because it is not profitable enough. Insurance companies like to make money. Not lose money.

You could always call 'em up and just ask. But all you will probably get for your trouble is some bull**t answer like

"Our research has shown that our customers prefer xxx and we also agree that this better serves consumers' needs...."

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by khh » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:33 pm

CULater wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:36 pm
For some reason insurers in my area don't seem to offer Plan G -- I wonder why?
I thought a Medigap policy (such as Plan G) was always offered statewide rather than to local areas. AFAIK, every state has insurers who offer Plan G.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by celia » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:50 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ijBGY7sJEF

I guess I'll have to share this information with the insurance agents and benefits managers.
I don't see anything new here. Enrollment in plan D and G has been available for several years now, in most of the country and Bogleheads has had many threads on it. Insurance agents were aware of this several years ago, too. Am I missing something else?

CULater wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:36 pm
For some reason insurers in my area don't seem to offer Plan G -- I wonder why?
Your state may be smaller or just slower in implementing it. Since my understanding is that if an insurance company is currently going to offer Medigap plans, they must first offer C and F before offering other plans, I'll wager that will change to D and G in 2020. DH was on a plan that did not offer G two years ago so he changed carriers last year to get G. Then in open enrollment last year, I noticed his previous company had just started to offer G. Look for it during open enrollment this year.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:53 pm

khh wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:33 pm
........ AFAIK, every state has insurers who offer Plan G.
Except for Massachusetts, Wisconsin and Minnesota

Also, keep in mind, some states (NY and Illinois for ex) break down the state into regions for Medigap sales. Each region can legally charge diff. premium rates within the same state.
In those states, whether insurance companies can pick and choose among the various regions which supplements they decide to offer, dunno.
Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.
Last edited by drawpoker on Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Mitchell777 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:05 pm

As I read the link, I think it says you could enroll in G today at age 65 or later, and still have the option of moving to Plan F at any time (before or after 2020) if you can pass medical questions. Is that correct?

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:30 pm

Here's an example of what I meant by certain states regulate this by region

As you can see by this chart, New York's BCBS insurer offers Plan G if you live in Albany. But not if you are in Buffalo. Or Syracuse.

https://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumer/medplan/medsup18.pdf

Also I found interesting. In their folksy, friendly introduction to explaining Medicare supplements (before the rate charts) New York specifically mentions "F" as being the most comprehensive and "N" "might be" best value.

Not a word about Plan G :?: :?:

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:02 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:50 pm

..... my understanding is that if an insurance company is currently going to offer Medigap plans, they must first offer C and F before offering other plans, .......
That may apply in Calif, but not for the rest. Medicare website says this:

"Each insurance company decides which Medigap policies it wants to sell, although state laws might affect which ones they offer. Insurance companies that sell Medigap policies:
Don't have to offer every Medigap plan
Must offer Medigap Plan A if they offer any Medigap policy
Must also offer Plan C or Plan F if they offer any plan"

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:09 pm

khh wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:25 am
drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:34 pm

Good luck! Only other thing I could think of - since this involves federal matters, it couldn't hurt, and it wouldn't cost you anything, to make a phone call to your Congressman's district office and ask them to assist you. He/she would put their staff on it to research by contacting CMS directly.
Might be worth a shot. :|
I wrote my congressman last week re Plan G guaranteed issue and got the following reply =>
Dear Mr. ______

Thank you for contacting me regarding questions about Medigap policy. I have contacted the Congressional liaison at CMS and received the following information:

"The [state omitted] Department of Insurance oversees the selling of Medigap policies so the SHIP may be able to get the clarification/explanation your constituent is looking for. There are a lot of different scenarios and the SHIP office should be able to explain based on his specific situation.

https://www.medicare.gov/supplement-oth ... arios.html "

(remainder was just an explanation of what SHIP is)
I had included the same link in the email to my congressman as the one included in the reply. At least my query was answered promptly :)
So he really didn't give any information, because that's on the Medicare website. So he doesn't know.

LadyIJ
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:12 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:50 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ijBGY7sJEF

I guess I'll have to share this information with the insurance agents and benefits managers.
I don't see anything new here. Enrollment in plan D and G has been available for several years now, in most of the country and Bogleheads has had many threads on it. Insurance agents were aware of this several years ago, too. Am I missing something else?

CULater wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:36 pm
For some reason insurers in my area don't seem to offer Plan G -- I wonder why?
Your state may be smaller or just slower in implementing it. Since my understanding is that if an insurance company is currently going to offer Medigap plans, they must first offer C and F before offering other plans, I'll wager that will change to D and G in 2020. DH was on a plan that did not offer G two years ago so he changed carriers last year to get G. Then in open enrollment last year, I noticed his previous company had just started to offer G. Look for it during open enrollment this year.
Yes, I believe you may be missing something, since it states clearly on Medicare' website that only certain plans are "guaranteed issue" and G is not one of them to date. but I do agree, if you see my OP, it seems like they will offer G when F is not longer no the "Guaranteed Issue" list. But who knows for sure.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:14 pm

Mitchell777 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:05 pm
As I read the link, I think it says you could enroll in G today at age 65 or later, and still have the option of moving to Plan F at any time (before or after 2020) if you can pass medical questions. Is that correct?
But then, that is not "Guaranteed Issue" is it? Guaranteed Issue is no underwriting, no questions.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Mitchell777 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:06 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:14 pm
Mitchell777 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:05 pm
As I read the link, I think it says you could enroll in G today at age 65 or later, and still have the option of moving to Plan F at any time (before or after 2020) if you can pass medical questions. Is that correct?
But then, that is not "Guaranteed Issue" is it? Guaranteed Issue is no underwriting, no questions.
I did not say it was Guaranteed Issue. Although, the Guaranteed Issue comment was mine. I did not read that in the link, so I'm not certain.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:45 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm
I found this online - memo to National Association of Insurance Carriers:
Important Correction needed here. NAIC is not association of insurance "Carriers"

It is the National Association of Insurance Commissioners


Meaning, this is the rather small & exclusive (51 people, well, actually more when you add in all staff) group of the either duly elected/and or appointed officials holding the office of Commissioner of Insurance in the 50 states and DC. Supposedly, non-regulators can join, too, researchers etc Edit: Also not 51, according to this, I forgot the five (5) U.S. territories :oops:

"The NAIC was founded in 1871 and is headquartered in Kansas City. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) was created and governed by chief insurance regulators from all 50 states, the District of Columbia and five U.S. territories. Its first major mission was the development of uniform financial reporting standards for insurance companies. Since then, new legislative concepts, new levels of expertise in data collection and delivery, and a commitment to even greater technological capability have evolved the mission of NAIC. Through its many committees, task forces, and working groups, the NAIC attempts to develop and implement laws and regulations that create national standards in an attempt to further benefit insurance consumers.

More specifically, NAIC assists state insurance regulators, individually and collectively, to achieve the following goals in a way that is consistent ......." blah, blah


Basically, the federal gumbmint (CMS) is telling the states in this document exactly how they are to implement the changes in Medicare law going into effect in 2020 so as to be in full compliance.

I take it to mean the final draft(s) of the changes were approved, finalized, and the information contained in this "Memo" now carries the weight of the law. Otherwise this would not have been transmitted officially to all state governments in February. (Unless, of course, something comes out later making more changes, always a possibility)

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by dodecahedron » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:10 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:30 pm
Here's an example of what I meant by certain states regulate this by region

As you can see by this chart, New York's BCBS insurer offers Plan G if you live in Albany. But not if you are in Buffalo. Or Syracuse.

https://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumer/medplan/medsup18.pdf
This is not specific to Plan G. The Empire BCBS insurer does not offer ANY plans in Buffalo or Syracuse. That particular insurance carrier has apparently chosen only to market its supplement plans in certain regions of the state. You can buy plans A,B,F,G, and N from Empire BCBS in Albany, MidHudson, Westchester, NYC, and Long Island. You can't buy any supplements from Empire BCBS in the remaining regions of the state. Those other regions are served by a different entity called Excellus BCBS. I think this is just the way the BCBS "turf" was historically divided up on a geographic basis, not specific to Medicare Supplements.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:29 pm

You are absolutely correct.
Point I was trying to make, CULater, if not in Massachusetts, Wisconsin or Minnesota, may be caught in some particular state/local specific hellhole of Medicare insurance. Where he/she cannot find Plan G offered by any company.
Hope he/she comes back to the thread and clarifies.

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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:12 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:45 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm
I found this online - memo to National Association of Insurance Carriers:
Important Correction needed here. NAIC is not association of insurance "Carriers"

It is the National Association of Insurance Commissioners


Meaning, this is the rather small & exclusive (51 people, well, actually more when you add in all staff) group of the either duly elected/and or appointed officials holding the office of Commissioner of Insurance in the 50 states and DC. Supposedly, non-regulators can join, too, researchers etc Edit: Also not 51, according to this, I forgot the five (5) U.S. territories :oops:

"The NAIC was founded in 1871 and is headquartered in Kansas City. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) was created and governed by chief insurance regulators from all 50 states, the District of Columbia and five U.S. territories. Its first major mission was the development of uniform financial reporting standards for insurance companies. Since then, new legislative concepts, new levels of expertise in data collection and delivery, and a commitment to even greater technological capability have evolved the mission of NAIC. Through its many committees, task forces, and working groups, the NAIC attempts to develop and implement laws and regulations that create national standards in an attempt to further benefit insurance consumers.

More specifically, NAIC assists state insurance regulators, individually and collectively, to achieve the following goals in a way that is consistent ......." blah, blah


Basically, the federal gumbmint (CMS) is telling the states in this document exactly how they are to implement the changes in Medicare law going into effect in 2020 so as to be in full compliance.

I take it to mean the final draft(s) of the changes were approved, finalized, and the information contained in this "Memo" now carries the weight of the law. Otherwise this would not have been transmitted officially to all state governments in February. (Unless, of course, something comes out later making more changes, always a possibility)
Excellent information! on a personal level, that is my main concern, that when I fall off my firm's retirement supplement, should I have major health issues (which I don't have, and hope not to, but one never knows) that I would have guaranteed issue to a comprehensive Plan, and G would have been my choice. It does make sense that they took F (and C) off the roster for GI, that they would replace it with G. Thanks for the further sleuth work!

Spirit Rider
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:16 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:45 pm
I take it to mean the final draft(s) of the changes were approved, finalized, and the information contained in this "Memo" now carries the weight of the law.

Otherwise this would not have been transmitted officially to all state governments in February. (Unless, of course, something comes out later making more changes, always a possibility).
The NAIC has the responsibility for writing the Model 651 regulations for Medicare Supplement Plans and CMS the responsibility for approving and implementing them.

The NAIC approved the Model 651 regulations almost two years ago and then forwarded them to CMS.

Last fall CMS published the regulations in the federal register giving them the force of law.

drawpoker
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Location: Delmarva

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:42 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:12 pm

.....that is my main concern, that when I fall off my firm's retirement supplement...............
That's the key. Falling off as you put it.

It's seems clear enough from reading the Medicare website that you would be eligible for G.I. unquestionably if your retiree supplementary package was terminated through no fault of your own, company cutting benefits for everyone on the package, Plan Administrator going into bankruptcy, receivership, the usual things
But, as you posted in the other thread, you know already that you will be automatically dropped in a certain year.
What would concern me if the gumbmint, in their infinite wisdom, would deem this to be outside their definition of involuntary termination.
Am thinking this way, since when you enrolled in the employer retiree plan you were informed it was only good for a narrowly specified period of time. So they might take the position your "falling off" was, technically, a form of voluntary dis-enrollment. At the time it affects only You, not an entire class.

IOW, if I were in your shoes, I would feel way more confident if the wording was not "the plan ends" but, rather,
"your plan ends".
See the difference? This is getting into tricky territory here. You need to have solid information to go on to make your final decision on what to do.


It's a mess, alright ( me thinks your company's plan is one of the more rare, unusual ones in this respect)

Maybe when you meet with the different S.H.I.P. person next week they will have a better grasp of just what the issues are.

Edit to add: Was going to run some numbers for you re: foregoing the employer supplement versus just signing up for Plan G when you hit 65. But, can't tell from your description of the employer plan deductible you cited of $500. Need more info
Does that $500 start after you have met the $183 Part B deductible, or, does the plan include the $183 toward their own $500 benchmark?
May be key part of the equation here - since you wrote earlier you can buy Plan G at the dirt cheap rate of $101 when you turn 65l You can probably see yourself where this is going, how these numbers might shake out if you run up %500, or $683, in Medicare-covered bills the 1st year (which is actually a low amount for even a supposed healthy 65 yr old.

khh
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by khh » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 am

drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:54 pm
Short answer - because it is not profitable enough. Insurance companies like to make money. Not lose money.

You could always call 'em up and just ask. But all you will probably get for your trouble is some bull**t answer like

"Our research has shown that our customers prefer xxx and we also agree that this better serves consumers' needs...."
Suppose your Plan G insurer decides to get completely out of the medicare supplement business. Are they still obligated to honor your policy for the rest of your life, provided you pay the premiums and don't cancel it?

Mitchell777
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by Mitchell777 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:42 am

khh wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 am
drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:54 pm
Short answer - because it is not profitable enough. Insurance companies like to make money. Not lose money.

You could always call 'em up and just ask. But all you will probably get for your trouble is some bull**t answer like

"Our research has shown that our customers prefer xxx and we also agree that this better serves consumers' needs...."
Suppose your Plan G insurer decides to get completely out of the medicare supplement business. Are they still obligated to honor your policy for the rest of your life, provided you pay the premiums and don't cancel it?
If you lose Medigap coerage through no fault of your own you would have Guaranteed Issue for a new plan

LadyIJ
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Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:10 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:42 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:12 pm

.....that is my main concern, that when I fall off my firm's retirement supplement...............
That's the key. Falling off as you put it.

It's seems clear enough from reading the Medicare website that you would be eligible for G.I. unquestionably if your retiree supplementary package was terminated through no fault of your own, company cutting benefits for everyone on the package, Plan Administrator going into bankruptcy, receivership, the usual things
But, as you posted in the other thread, you know already that you will be automatically dropped in a certain year.
What would concern me if the gumbmint, in their infinite wisdom, would deem this to be outside their definition of involuntary termination.
Am thinking this way, since when you enrolled in the employer retiree plan you were informed it was only good for a narrowly specified period of time. So they might take the position your "falling off" was, technically, a form of voluntary dis-enrollment. At the time it affects only You, not an entire class.

IOW, if I were in your shoes, I would feel way more confident if the wording was not "the plan ends" but, rather,
"your plan ends".
See the difference? This is getting into tricky territory here. You need to have solid information to go on to make your final decision on what to do.


It's a mess, alright ( me thinks your company's plan is one of the more rare, unusual ones in this respect)

Maybe when you meet with the different S.H.I.P. person next week they will have a better grasp of just what the issues are.

Edit to add: Was going to run some numbers for you re: foregoing the employer supplement versus just signing up for Plan G when you hit 65. But, can't tell from your description of the employer plan deductible you cited of $500. Need more info
Does that $500 start after you have met the $183 Part B deductible, or, does the plan include the $183 toward their own $500 benchmark?
May be key part of the equation here - since you wrote earlier you can buy Plan G at the dirt cheap rate of $101 when you turn 65l You can probably see yourself where this is going, how these numbers might shake out if you run up %500, or $683, in Medicare-covered bills the 1st year (which is actually a low amount for even a supposed healthy 65 yr old.
It is worded "Coverage under the group medical plan will end March 31, 2017" -- also, there is no $183. it's a "integrated INDEMNITY medical option that is secondary to Medicare." So, it's $500 deductible for the year and $50 deductible for drugs. no copays, so it could be likely for one year that I would pay $500 plus my Medicare Part B premiums. I will go to SHIP again and also making an appointment with social security. It's basically $500 vs. $1212 + $240 ($1452 ) (Plan G plus D). I will insist on getting an answer as to whether I will have GI in April 2022.

drawpoker
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Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:10 pm

LadyIJ wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:10 pm

It is worded "Coverage under the group medical plan will end March 31, 2017" -- also, there is no $183. it's a "integrated INDEMNITY medical option that is secondary to Medicare." So, it's $500 deductible for the year and $50 deductible for drugs. no copays, so it could be likely for one year that I would pay $500 plus my Medicare Part B premiums. I will go to SHIP again and also making an appointment with social security. It's basically $500 vs. $1212 + $240 ($1452 ) (Plan G plus D). I will insist on getting an answer as to whether I will have GI in April 2022.
Whooops, March 31 2017
??? You mean 2022, right?

Yes, Virginia, :wink: there is a $183.

That is the current Part B deductible (annual) which has to be paid before Medicare starts paying. That is why I asked if the Plan you are considering starts their clock ticking on the $500 after you have met Part B deductible, or, if they are being generous and let you count that as part of their deductible. It makes a difference in the math if you are weighing the numbers here. Also, I recall you wrote earlier, besides the $500, your Plan requires $20 co-pay for each doc visit. Did that change?

FWIW, most of the articles in mainstream media writing about Medicare matters seem to agree that the Part B deductible will "reach $250 within five years)

Even if you are able to get a definitive "yes" ruling about your G.I. status for April 2022 - you still might not want to pull the trigger on this.

Consider: Unlike regular Medicare supplements, your company can legally change its Plan (slash benefits) after you have signed up. Since you are looking at an approx. 4-year horizon here it is hard to say what could happen. Company revenues flat, mergers, shake-ups in management, new people coming in. Circumstances that might make the suits decide to look for ways to cut costs. And they usually start with retiree benefits.

Worse case scenario - deductible is doubled, doctor co-pays increase, they slap on a monthly charge, drug coverage gets drastically cut. All sorts of things we hear about in the times we live in. And all perfectly legal (unless you fall into some protected class of retirees due to iron-clad contracts with a union in place?)

And, no matter how much more expensive it gets, you can't drop it on your own (voluntary dis-enroll) and snatch up Plan G. Because you would forfeit your G.I. protected status. So you will have to ride the train to the end of the station.

Not trying to sound alarm bells here. Maybe your company is extremely well-positioned, flush with earnings, and there is little chance of anyone tinkering with retiree benefits. I don't know.

Just thinking out loud, if it was me faced with this decision, these are some of the things that would enter my mind.

LadyIJ
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by LadyIJ » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:56 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:10 pm
LadyIJ wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:10 pm

It is worded "Coverage under the group medical plan will end March 31, 2017" -- also, there is no $183. it's a "integrated INDEMNITY medical option that is secondary to Medicare." So, it's $500 deductible for the year and $50 deductible for drugs. no copays, so it could be likely for one year that I would pay $500 plus my Medicare Part B premiums. I will go to SHIP again and also making an appointment with social security. It's basically $500 vs. $1212 + $240 ($1452 ) (Plan G plus D). I will insist on getting an answer as to whether I will have GI in April 2022.
Whooops, March 31 2017
??? You mean 2022, right?

Yes, Virginia, :wink: there is a $183.

That is the current Part B deductible (annual) which has to be paid before Medicare starts paying. That is why I asked if the Plan you are considering starts their clock ticking on the $500 after you have met Part B deductible, or, if they are being generous and let you count that as part of their deductible. It makes a difference in the math if you are weighing the numbers here. Also, I recall you wrote earlier, besides the $500, your Plan requires $20 co-pay for each doc visit. Did that change?

FWIW, most of the articles in mainstream media writing about Medicare matters seem to agree that the Part B deductible will "reach $250 within five years)

Even if you are able to get a definitive "yes" ruling about your G.I. status for April 2022 - you still might not want to pull the trigger on this.

Consider: Unlike regular Medicare supplements, your company can legally change its Plan (slash benefits) after you have signed up. Since you are looking at an approx. 4-year horizon here it is hard to say what could happen. Company revenues flat, mergers, shake-ups in management, new people coming in. Circumstances that might make the suits decide to look for ways to cut costs. And they usually start with retiree benefits.

Worse case scenario - deductible is doubled, doctor co-pays increase, they slap on a monthly charge, drug coverage gets drastically cut. All sorts of things we hear about in the times we live in. And all perfectly legal (unless you fall into some protected class of retirees due to iron-clad contracts with a union in place?)

And, no matter how much more expensive it gets, you can't drop it on your own (voluntary dis-enroll) and snatch up Plan G. Because you would forfeit your G.I. protected status. So you will have to ride the train to the end of the station.

Not trying to sound alarm bells here. Maybe your company is extremely well-positioned, flush with earnings, and there is little chance of anyone tinkering with retiree benefits. I don't know.

Just thinking out loud, if it was me faced with this decision, these are some of the things that would enter my mind.
A lot of good points - I appreciate your thoughts on this. My first gut instinct was to pay more and get my own. I will do some more due diligence in the upcoming week.

khh
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by khh » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:50 pm

Mitchell777 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:42 am
khh wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 am
Suppose your Plan G insurer decides to get completely out of the medicare supplement business. Are they still obligated to honor your policy for the rest of your life, provided you pay the premiums and don't cancel it?
If you lose Medigap coerage through no fault of your own you would have Guaranteed Issue for a new plan
What I'm wondering is, can a medigap insurer cancel your policy in the situation above. I would think they would be obligated to honor it for life, but I don't want to assume that.

Edit: I just looked up the Plan G policy I signed and found this:
RENEWABILITY
The policy is guaranteed renewable for life.
Edit 2: The above quote is a complete and stand-alone section of the contract.

drawpoker
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Location: Delmarva

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by drawpoker » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 am

Okay, it seems the apple cart has now collided with the orange stand, strewing apples and oranges together here. :?

khh, what you cited about a guarantee renewability for "life" is just boiler plate language that applies to ALL Medicare Supplement Plans. Nothing unique about that with reference to Plan G. Or any of the other 9 Plans. It is just part of Medicare law, they have to put that out there.

Basically, what it means in the real world, is that if the Medicare supplement Plan you selected is later discontinued by action of the federal gov't (as happened in 2010 with Medicare Supplement Plan E and three others) your insurance co. still has to, by law, continue your policy forever (or until you kick off). They can't sell any new policies since the gumbmint has officially declared that particular supplement is dust; but the law requires (just as you noted in the fine print of your policy) they have to stick by all current policy-holders.

What Mitchell777 was referring to is absolutely correct. But a diff. scenario(s)
Maybe a particular company has decided the Plan G market was not profitable enough, so they are pulling out. So what. To existing policy holders that means nothing. Their policies have to be honored and remain in force.
2nd scenario: Possibility that an insurance co. that sold you your Medigap policy goes belly=up, insolvent, bankruptcy, etc. They can't pay out anymore on the claims coming in.

So, if you find yourself in that boat, no matter whether you are a healthy 70-something, or sick sick puppy with 1 foot already in the grave, no matter. The law allows you to buy any of the 10 Plans, including the same one you were dumped from, at Open Enrollment prices. Meaning - no medical underwriting of any kind. This falls under the "guaranteed issue" doctrine of the law.

khh, the kind of "guaranteed renewability" provision you cited is a completely different aspect of Medicare laws/regulations.
Hope this clarifies that issue.

khh
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Appears that Medicare Guaranteed Issue Plan F will be replaced with G

Post by khh » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:43 am

drawpoker wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 am
Maybe a particular company has decided the Plan G market was not profitable enough, so they are pulling out. So what. To existing policy holders that means nothing. Their policies have to be honored and remain in force.
That's what I was looking for. Thanks. :happy

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