Salary vs. Lifestyle

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
UncleBogle
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Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by UncleBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am

I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?

masonstone
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by masonstone » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:37 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
I think this also heavily depends on your tax bracket. If you're going to be taxed half of it then it's really a 17% increase in salary.

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fortfun
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by fortfun » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:41 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
I'm a teacher and wish my wife was one too. Having summers off with the kids is worth a million dollar salary. I also hope to retire at 50. I'd chose to live/retire frugally and work less. I know that isn't the exact question that you asked but might provide some perspective. For us, expensive cars/clothes aren't important and we've figured out how to travel on a shoestring budget.

KlangFool
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:45 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
UncleBogle,

<<It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.>>

1) Does the additional money matters?

2) If yes, how much does it matters? 1 month? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years?

I save 1 year of expense every year. And, when my portfolio is big enough, the additional savings from every year makes very little difference in how early I am financially independent. Hence, at one point, I took a 20% to 30% pay cut to take a less time consuming and less stressful job.

3) Given that I save 1 year of expense every year, income is never the reason why I would take a job versus another.

4) Do you know your number to reach FI and/or retirement? Is it 25 times your current annual expense? 30X? If not, you could not evaluate the question in the first place.

KlangFool

BradJ
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by BradJ » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:56 am

My advice is to sit down with your wife and have a good, long honest discussion about what ways more money would change your life. Don't be ashamed to say more money can bring you a lifestyle you want (better cars, nicer home, private school, etc.), but if none of that stuff matters, I wouldn't make the move unless you were unhappy at your current employer. Let's look at this through another lens, you stay put and have ample time with your family but it took you two more additional years to retire........would that extra time be worth 2 extra years? 3 extra years?

mak1277
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by mak1277 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:03 am

This is such a personal thing and depends hugely on how much time the new job will cut from your overall working life.

For me, I'd rather work 10 low stress years than 5 high stress years. But I'd rather work 5 high stress years than 20 low stress years. It's all about finding whatever the inflection point is for you and your family.

chw
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by chw » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:04 am

Generally, mid career (mid 30's to late 40's) will offer opportunities for better pay/benefits. Employers will view this age range as optimal from an experience standpoint, with good possible job longevity for the employee/employer if circumstances work out. I was fortunate to exploit the higher income years to a great degree, and retire early. There was certainly some additional stress with the higher paying positions, but generally I would say it was just a different type of stress than the lower paying positions I had in my early career. I would also say the higher paying positions made some lifestyle decisions easier, such as nicer vacations, and funding college for our children, among those decisions.

I would make certain that the new position is a good fit for you, and that your spouse is willing to support you with whatever additional stress that may be associated with the new position.

Good luck with your decision!
Last edited by chw on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

AerialWombat
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by AerialWombat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:25 am

After divorce, bankruptcy, homelessness, and starting over in a new career field at age 30, I decided to spend my mid-30's traveling the world and doing cool stuff. Worked part-time, remotely, while traveling, for three years. Significant financial hit for those three years (although not at bad as the Chapter 7 was). I would be MUCH farther ahead right now at age 40 if I had not done this, but I have zero regrets.

You need to determine what's important to you. You can't get the years back, and you can't really predict the health issues or other problems that might unexpectedly prevent you from living life to the fullest in later years.

JuniorBH
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by JuniorBH » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am

chw wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:04 am

I would make certain that the new position is a good fit for you, and that your spouse is willing to support you with whatever additional stress that may associated with the new position.
Bolded part is the key. I'm about to make a similar decision and a large part of weighing pros/cons was the impact it would have on my wife and our home life (i.e. more hours at work means she'll have to shoulder more of the burden). I'm not sure she fully appreciates it yet, but we've discussed it at length and she's in favor of my taking the higher paying job.

randomguy
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by randomguy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:50 am

masonstone wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:37 am
UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
I think this also heavily depends on your tax bracket. If you're going to be taxed half of it then it's really a 17% increase in salary.
You have to apply the same discount to your existing salary so the increase might not be 35% but it is likely more than 17%. And since basic living expenses are covered, it is all money that can be saved/spend on discretionary items

livesoft
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am

Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
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UncleBogle
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by UncleBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:05 am

Great responses - thanks to everone.  It is refreshing to see different suggestions and viewpoints.

KlangFool,

In regards to determining FI point, this is a bit tricky for me.  I have four daughters who will be attending college over the next 6 years. Depending upon the cost of tuition, this will move the target. Likewise if they get married, that will mean more expenses(four weddings and *my* funeral).

Believe me, it has been rather frustrating for me trying to nail down a target for FI, and a potential retirement date. Healthcare costs and my children are the biggest expenses that give me angst. But I will say that if I had $5 mil, I would retire today....:)

For now, I will just continue to squirrel away my money in my portfolio, and take life as it comes. If anyone has any suggestions in regards to trying to predict a retirement date with several unknowns, I am all ears.

Thanks again to the group!
Last edited by UncleBogle on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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unclescrooge
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:45 am
UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
UncleBogle,

<<It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.>>

1) Does the additional money matters?

2) If yes, how much does it matters? 1 month? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years?

I save 1 year of expense every year. And, when my portfolio is big enough, the additional savings from every year makes very little difference in how early I am financially independent. Hence, at one point, I took a 20% to 30% pay cut to take a less time consuming and less stressful job.

3) Given that I save 1 year of expense every year, income is never the reason why I would take a job versus another.

4) Do you know your number to reach FI and/or retirement? Is it 25 times your current annual expense? 30X? If not, you could not evaluate the question in the first place.

KlangFool
KlangFool,

How do save 1 year of expenses? Is it because you live in a LCOL city and managed to buy a modest house? At what point in your career were you able to save 1x expenses?

Do you define expenses as overhead-only, or does that include discretionary too? What about your mortgage? Health Care?

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friar1610
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by friar1610 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 am

I think a few things you need to think about up front are these: would you be taking the higher paying job with the primary objective of socking away more so you can retire earlier? Or would you be taking it to improve your lifestyle materially (bigger house, nicer cars, etc.)? Or some combination of the two? And, in the face of a greatly increased income, are you and your family capable of avoiding lifestyle creep to the extent that in a few years you won't find yourself with more "stuff" but no closer to earlier freedom? Obviously only you can answer that.
Friar1610

smitcat
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by smitcat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:17 am

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Yes - exactly.

KlangFool
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:26 am

unclescrooge wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 am

KlangFool,

How do save 1 year of expenses? Is it because you live in a LCOL city and managed to buy a modest house? At what point in your career were you able to save 1x expenses?

Do you define expenses as overhead-only, or does that include discretionary too? What about your mortgage? Health Care?
unclescrooge,

<<How do save 1 year of expenses? >>

1) I always save 1 year of expense every year ever since I started working.

2) I can't explain this to you. I am an immigrant. I come from a culture/country where the average gross saving rate for the whole country is 30+%. This is how we live. We lived on 1/3 of our income. In fact, I was among those that are not considered as frugal among my family members. Most of my family members save a lot more than I do.

3) My parents save money even when we were starving in our childhood. We would rather starve a little than having nothing to eat in the future.

<<Do you define expenses as overhead-only, or does that include discretionary too? What about your mortgage? Health Care?>>

4) I consider the whole PITI as an expense. Basically, anything other than savings and taxes is expenses.

5) I do the "Pay Yourself First" saving method.

KlangFool

P.S.: To be precise, I am saving nothing at the moment. All my annual savings go towards paying my kid's college education.
Last edited by KlangFool on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

BogleMelon
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by BogleMelon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
I take the "pain" now every day, in order for a better life later.
I drive a 2009 car today while I am able to upgrade, but I retire early
I live on a budget, while saving almost 30% of our gross income in retirement accounts, in order to retire early
I don't keep up with Joneses, and it becomes hard sometimes, but in order to retire early
I chose to be a renter for unknown period of time, in order to retire early (debatable in general, but for my own specific case, buying a house = late retirement for sure)
However,
I give away money today, for those who are in need, at the cost of retiring earlier
I will go soon for a vacation, to see my family, at the cost of retiring earlier
And, I've found that I still can enjoy life now, without affecting my retiring date. Example:
Enjoying a long walk with my DW every couple of days, bring joy to us more than going to expensive restaurants. And without compromising retirement date, let alone health benefit.
Playing PC games, giving me joy, without compromising my retirement date
Visiting good friends, and have a good laugh from time to time, bring joy, without compromising retirement date.

Would I take a more stress job for a 30% more in income? Not sure about that one! It is a tough call IMHO!!
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

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Sandtrap
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
Of course.
"Strike while the iron is hot".
"Sail when the winds are blowing."
"Make hay while the sun shines."

Lot's of "idioms" out there. . . . :D

"Try it, you might like it. . . . . or don't and it will be just as fine. . . " :D

j :happy
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TxAg
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by TxAg » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:29 am

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
It depends...

You can't enjoy small kids 10-20 years down the road. It's all a balancing act.

Dottie57
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:34 am

Contemplate an early death vs an average lifetime. Would you be satisfied with your life if you spent more tome at work? How about if money is tight in retirement? Life is a balance and nothing is guaranteed. Make sure you create memories. And have enough in retirement.

NextMil
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by NextMil » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:45 am

Opportunity costs exist on both sides of the ledger.

If it was me, and I have been in the position before and glad I would still make the same choice, I would take the job. My xx% increase led to the next job that was XX+% increase and much more flexibility. Not sure if this is a new position with a new outfit, but if its with your existing outfit, be careful of the message you send when you say, "thanks, but I would rather not be promoted."

ThankYouJack
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by ThankYouJack » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:46 am

I would take the lifestyle now, especially if you have already built up a significant net worth.

Factor in taxes on the increased salary and run some simulations of how your portfolio will grow with the extra income. Then do the same with the lower salary and see how many extra years you would actually need to work. It probably won't be that many.

For my current situation, I could either work part-time for 10 years, or full-time for 8. I'll take part-time and enjoy the better lifestyle now.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

UncleBogle
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by UncleBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:50 am

As a point of clarification, when referring to "taking the pain", I was referring in regards to this specific instance(i.e. take on more stress now in the hopes that this increased income proves to allow an earlier retirement.)

We all take some pain while saving for our future. But I find that this pain becomes security very quickly - and that feels good. (That sounds a little risqué )

My family has always lived frugally: always bought used vehicles, got rid of cable/land line a long time ago save approximately 40% of my take home pay, and we're not into owning "stuff". One of my most recent proud parent moments, was when my daughter purchased a gorgeous $30 secondhand prom dress on her own volition, while her friend paid $400 for a brand new one :)

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by indexonlyplease » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:53 am

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
So true.

rgs92
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by rgs92 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:58 am

If your current job is secure and you feel comfortable, don't jump for extra money (unless the new job is a gov't job; in that case, unless it is dangerous, take it).
When you take a new private sector job, you are gambling big time, just like putting your whole portfolio in one stock.

A job that pays decently where you have built up a reputation is the most important thing by far. There is huge risk in getting a new job in private industry unless you are in some special situation where you are absolutely sure of what you are getting into.

mountain-lion
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by mountain-lion » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:00 pm

This is definitely a balancing act and I think both choices have the potential to be good decisions--it's no lose, in some ways. One other point:

You shouldn't just think about this job opportunity, but the next job opportunity as well. If you don't take this job, then the next opportunity is likely to be roughly similar--probably anyway. If you do take this job, then the next opportunity is likely to be much better than this one--probably anyway.

So the long term decision isn't just about this job, but about changing your career trajectory--you may have another chance to alter it, but getting started sooner gives you more chances for the next step afterward.

Only you can decide if it is worth it, but don't just think about now, think about later.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:01 pm

AerialWombat wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:25 am

You need to determine what's important to you. You can't get the years back, and you can't really predict the health issues or other problems that might unexpectedly prevent you from living life to the fullest in later years.
^This. If the money is not desperately needed, assuming you make $100K now, then what is $17K after tax in additional monies worth to you? Is it worth missing kids sporting events or school plays? How about spending less time with your spouse and/or other family events? And then of course, as one ages, health issues could crop up and stress may certainly accelerate it.

I would go for it though if it was an in-house promotion and it accelerated your career in a positive manner. But those who I see in those positions, yah, make more money but then let the money get in the way of other things. They become addicted to the money and power.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

new2bogle
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by new2bogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:27 pm

I had a similar experience a few months ago:
www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=248148

I ended up not going through with the interview process.

dsmil
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by dsmil » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:13 pm

I think that I could definitely jump ship and make some more money, but making "enough" with little stress and good hours is good enough for me. With young kids, this is probably the time of my life where I'll have the least amount of free time, so I want to keep as much of it as I can. When I'm near or in retirement, I'll have plenty of time to play golf.

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HomerJ
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by HomerJ » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
The J stands for Jay

ThankYouJack
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by ThankYouJack » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:14 pm

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:50 am


My family has always lived frugally: always bought used vehicles, got rid of cable/land line a long time ago save approximately 40% of my take home pay, and we're not into owning "stuff".
If you already save 40% of your take home pay, the higher salary won't lead to being FIRE'd that much sooner. How many times is your portfolio greater than your annual expenses?

bgf
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by bgf » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:19 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
i don't get it either. i think that the tradeoffs for many, not all of course, but for many is a tradeoff of one or more of: time, travel - both commute and for work, energy/attention, and stress. if you can make more money without making those tradeoffs then DO IT! that's amazing!

otherwise, the only thing i could see is that once a person has decided to make those tradeoffs for more money, they simply adapt to the situation. if that is the point, then i totally agree. people constantly adapt to their situations, whether they have improved or not. we adapt, we rationalize, we do all kinds of things psychologically.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:19 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Earning a higher salary did NOT prevent them from making the most of their limited free time. The term “taking the pain now” implies an excuse by the higher paid folks to make it seem like they have a higher burden than they actually do and to fool average joe, meanwhile they are banking tons more without catching flak from average joe who has sympathy for them.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

ResearchMed
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:31 pm

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
How MUCH stress?

There is "stress" and then there is "STRESS".

If it's the kind of stress where one is getting seriously stressed physically/physiologically, and/or is being grumpy (or worse) at home, or not sleeping well, or starting to have an extra drink before bedtime, and then an extra after dinner...
Or one ends up spending extra as a sort of release ("I deserve this widget, and I don't care how much it costs, 'cause I'm working SO blankety-blank hard!!!"), or other similar...

Or is it the "Honey, I'm not sure this is working, but let's give it another year and see... it might really be worth it, but meanwhile let's take some extra vacation time, okay?" - until the extra vacations eat up all the extra money :shock:

And then "how MUCH extra money?" - how much of a difference will it really make? (This was mentioned above.)

RM
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lthenderson
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by lthenderson » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:31 pm

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
I have had the opportunity several times in my life to work harder for more money and I turned it down every time. For me, family was always the number one thing in my life and spending the maximum amount of time with my family was thus my number one goal. Funny thing is that the money always followed me and I have always believed that a happy worker is much more productive than a stressed worker who didn't have time for their family and thus the reason the money always came through.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by UncleBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:56 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:19 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Earning a higher salary did NOT prevent them from making the most of their limited free time. The term “taking the pain now” implies an excuse by the higher paid folks to make it seem like they have a higher burden than they actually do and to fool average joe, meanwhile they are banking tons more without catching flak from average joe who has sympathy for them.
I'm not sure how anyone could determine that one person's burden is higher or lower than anyone else's without walking in their shoes.

I would hope that we would see people as people, not as "average joe" or "higher earner". People are people, regardless of wealth or success.

I'm happy for those who can retire early. I applaud them, not condemn them. I just wish I could be one of them.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:44 pm

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:56 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:19 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Earning a higher salary did NOT prevent them from making the most of their limited free time. The term “taking the pain now” implies an excuse by the higher paid folks to make it seem like they have a higher burden than they actually do and to fool average joe, meanwhile they are banking tons more without catching flak from average joe who has sympathy for them.
I'm not sure how anyone could determine that one person's burden is higher or lower than anyone else's without walking in their shoes.

I would hope that we would see people as people, not as "average joe" or "higher earner". People are people, regardless of wealth or success.

I'm happy for those who can retire early. I applaud them, not condemn them. I just wish I could be one of them.
Hmm. OP did you read the post clearly? It asked for an interpretation of another post that was a bit cryptic. It’s NOT how I view people but rather how others outside of this thread and those who posted here may behave.

Your thread does not ask “can I retire early?”. Are you asking it now? Post up your financials and others will chime in.

And in a perfect life people are people, but that is not always the case, One only needs to read some history or keep up on current events to know the difference.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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corn18
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by corn18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:09 pm

I can tell you what it's like on the other side of your decision. I have been chasing the money for 10 years now to get us out of serious debt and have a chance at retiring ever. So I didn't have to decide whether it was worth it, I was forced to. That has lead me to greener pastures where I make $700k a year and live off of $150k of that. The rest goes to retirement and retiring early. The job is high stress. I have a path to a 7+ figure salary, but man, it is high stress.

So now what to do? Work another 3 years and retire comfortably? Work another 5 years and retire very well off. Work another 8 years and never worry about money again? Where does it end?

Maybe I slow down and take a job making $150k a year. Maybe I consult for $200 an hour. That would mean working less but longer.

Maybe we loosen up the reigns now and see what it's like to spend $200k a year. Or 300k. Live high on the hog now and keep working until I die.

We don't have the answer yet because we aren't brave enough to cut off the supply just yet.

So back to your scenario. If 35% means going from $700k to $945k, then my answer is heck yeah. If it means going from $100k to $135k, then maybe.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:14 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Livesoft can provide first-hand explanation. The reasons I thought he made excellent points are as follows:
1.1 A higher salary is associated with a greater autonomy and control, which lead to a greater job satisfaction and life satisfaction.
1.2 A higher salary provides you with the means to pay for the things you don't want to do.
1.3 A higher salary provides you with some level of intrinsic satisfaction as an indicator of your higher standing in the society.
2. Those with higher salaries know that others are not as fortunate, and they concoct reasons for why having a higher salary is painful.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:15 pm

Yes, what she said.
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corn18
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by corn18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:18 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:15 pm
Yes, what she said.
As long as we aren't projecting that onto everyone with a higher salary, I won't be offended.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:21 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:14 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Livesoft can provide first-hand explanation. The reasons I thought he made excellent points are as follows:
1.1 A higher salary is associated with a greater autonomy and control, which lead to a greater job satisfaction and life satisfaction.
1.2 A higher salary provides you with the means to pay for the things you don't want to do.
1.3 A higher salary provides you with some level of intrinsic satisfaction as an indicator of your higher standing in the society.
2. Those with higher salaries know that others are not as fortunate, and they concoct reasons for why having a higher salary is painful.

Victoria
You gave a more refined response to the question. I was eh-hem, blunt.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:24 pm

corn18 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:18 pm
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:15 pm
Yes, what she said.
As long as we aren't projecting that onto everyone with a higher salary, I won't be offended.
Livesoft wrote "Everybody I know ...".
My comments were based on my overall observations, without getting into exceptions.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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corn18
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by corn18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:26 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:24 pm
corn18 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:18 pm
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:15 pm
Yes, what she said.
As long as we aren't projecting that onto everyone with a higher salary, I won't be offended.
Livesoft wrote "Everybody I know ...".
My comments were based on my overall observations, without getting into exceptions.

Victoria
I don't know livesoft. All is good.

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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by thangngo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:31 pm

UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
It depends on you. Do you have what the new job takes? Be honest with yourself. For some people performing at high level, they manage stress and make time for family. For others, they have to take on a lot of stress and spend whole day at work to be able to perform at high level. There's no wrong answer. Know yourself and what you are able to handle. If you can, take that pay raise and run with it.

UncleBogle
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by UncleBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:34 pm

thangngo wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:31 pm
UncleBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:35 am
I realize that this is a very subjective matter, but after reading one of the threads regarding early retirement, I noticed they recurring theme: Enjoying life while you can (having more time for "living in the sunlight" - hobbies, taking walks, exercising and spending time with family).

I thankfully have a good paying job, but now have the opportunity to take a higher paying job ( 35% more salary, but more stress / less family time). It made me think that if I earned more money up front, this would allow me to achieve retirement earlier - Save more earlier on, and let time work for your funds.

While I realize that this is a personal choice, I was wondering if others out here have grappled with the "take the pain now, and enjoy more life's later" argument?
It depends on you. Do you have what the new job takes? Be honest with yourself. For some people performing at high level, they manage stress and make time for family. For others, they have to take on a lot of stress and spend whole day at work to be able to perform at high level. There's no wrong answer. Know yourself and what you are able to handle. If you can, take that pay raise and run with it.
Excellent advice. Thanks!

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PhysicianOnFIRE
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:37 pm

I've made the opposite choice, but only after reaching financial independence. I'm now working 40% less for 40% lower pay than I did as a full-timer. No regrets.

:beer
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JBTX
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by JBTX » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:46 pm

This is a highly personal choice and only you can answer. There are so many variables

Would I go from a job I like to one I don't for significantly more money? Probably not.

Would I go to a job I liked as much but worked more for more money? Maybe.

I will say this. Make sure you understand the choice and make the options explicit. If you want to cash in now and make more money and save, then make sure you have a plan to save the difference, and try to quantify how much less work you have at the back end.

JBTX
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Re: Salary vs. Lifestyle

Post by JBTX » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:53 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:14 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:48 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
Everybody I know that has had higher salary has figured out a way to enjoy life while earning a higher salary. I think much of the pain now stuff is just talk to make the wealthy feel more normal and not get hassled by the less well off.
Excellent points.

Victoria
I don't understand the points. Can some of you who understand what livesoft said elaborate so I can understand it too?
Livesoft can provide first-hand explanation. The reasons I thought he made excellent points are as follows:
1.1 A higher salary is associated with a greater autonomy and control, which lead to a greater job satisfaction and life satisfaction.
1.2 A higher salary provides you with the means to pay for the things you don't want to do.
1.3 A higher salary provides you with some level of intrinsic satisfaction as an indicator of your higher standing in the society.
2. Those with higher salaries know that others are not as fortunate, and they concoct reasons for why having a higher salary is painful.

Victoria
This is an interesting take and I think has merit. Of the people I work with, I am not sure those who make more consistently work a lot more hours or are more miserable. They do tend to have more responsibility but how each handles it is highly individualistic.

I see some staffers work lots of extra hours and take on a heavy and stressful workload, and I see some who make more work reasonable hours. The one key difference is those on the higher income scale tend to be more personally vested in their job/career. Their job, and their coworkers, is a greater piece of their identity.

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