Selling mom's house

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rosepetal
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Selling mom's house

Post by rosepetal » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm

My mom inherited a house over 10 years ago. Right after she got this home, my sister and her kids moved in with her on the agreement that it would just be a few months until she got back on her feet. Well, she never got back on her feet and took advantage of living rent free with my mother until my mother passed away (1 month ago). Also right after my mother inherited the home, she put the home in all of her children's names (mine, 2 sisters and 1 brother). My mother wanted this house sold after she passed and the proceeds split between all of siblings. Since my sister and her family (3 adult kids and 2 grandkids) lived with my mother rent free andstill living in the house when she died, they are still there (mom passed about a month ago). My sister (that lives in the house) is trying to buy our part out and does not yet know if she will be approved for the mortgage (she had to get a co-signer). She does not comprehend what it takes to get and hold a mortgage and we've been trying to explain it to her. The house needs some TLC. Before my sister and her kids moved in, it was a nice house (only about 10 years old). After my sister moved in, the house was destroyed and now will take a lot to fix it up (new roof, new cabinets, paint, sheet rock, new decks, etc..) We all 4 had an agreed upon price for the house as is (as is, it's worth about 125k), we agreed to take 100k minimum. She has asked us to take 100K AND turn around and give her 5k from each of our share so she can fix the house. My sister has done nothing to improve the quality of the house, we all split the taxes every year, they couldn't keep insurance on the house because of the condition of the roof and the decks. My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere. My brother, my other sister and I have put money into this house when they needed a new AC system, needed the roof "patched" to fix a leak (which is leaking again). We gave her money when she asked and gave mom money when she needed it. I always took my mother to her doctors appts, I paid her bills when she didn't have the money. What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.

SR II
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by SR II » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:44 pm

Consult an attorney.

chevca
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by chevca » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:02 am

If they can't even insure the house, it seems like it's going to take a good bit more than $10-15k to get it fixed up right.

As tough as it can be to let go, there's no point in keeping track of what's been done in the past, who paid for what, and who went to the doctor's office. That's not likely to do anything other than drag this all out. What do you, or the other three of you want out of this now? Just work with the present situation and what you want out of it.

Let's call it $120k for the value of the house. That's about $30k each for the four of you. If this were to get drug out in court, or whatever it might cost to fix it up, that could be even less. Now, $30k isn't chump change. But, how much is it worth to you if this were to turn into some huge battle?

Is the other three of you siblings taking your names off the house and walking away to let sis sink or swim there and option? It may be the easiest way out.

Did your mom leave a will?

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:13 am

I'm sure a lawyer can force a sale of the house (I forget the legal term). If you don't want to go through this mess and just want out, stop paying anything. Likely, your sister will not pay taxes, insurance, upkeep and soon figure out that having a free house doesn't actually mean it's free. It'll be taken for taxes.
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augryphon
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by augryphon » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:23 am

It's not worth the fight for a quarter share of a 100k house. The disagreement will likely split your siblings further, and could damage your relationships forever. Lawyers and refurb would eat your money quickly.

I'm very blessed that my sister and I have agreed completely on every aspect of selling our parents’ house and splitting the proceeds, but I've known people whose families fought until they literally died over miniscule amounts of money, including others in my extended family.

It's more important to attempt to keep the relationships with your siblings, in my humble opinion.

Good Luck!

student
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by student » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:27 am

I agree with the poster who suggested that you walk away from the house and give up your share.
Last edited by student on Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:29 am

If you walk away, get your name off the title. If it's in your name, then anything that happens there can get you sued. Or fined by the city for code violations. Quit claim.

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cheese_breath
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:32 am

When you say mom put the home in the childrens' names that means the deed now has your four names on it, and her's isn't. Yes? Then what she wanted has no legal bearing, and neither would a will.

IMO I'd just sign my piece of the house over to the siblings and be done with it. The legal battles might not be cheap if you wanted to fight her.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

FoolMeOnce
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by FoolMeOnce » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:43 am

rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
She has asked us to take 100K AND turn around and give her 5k from each of our share so she can fix the house.
Sounds like this struggle is all over $5k each from you and two of your siblings. Is that right? If so, just agree and be done with it.

sjt
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by sjt » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:03 am

rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
The house needs some TLC. Before my sister and her kids moved in, it was a nice house (only about 10 years old). After my sister moved in, the house was destroyed and now will take a lot to fix it up (new roof, new cabinets, paint, sheet rock, new decks, etc..)

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
A bit confused about the way the first part is worded. Are you insinuating if your sister and kids didn't move in, the house would not have needed a roof or deck? These things degrade over time and need replacement. Same with the A/C system. Sounds like the other children put some money into it - but I assume it was also when your mother was living there, so she also benefited from AC repair?

Perhaps the sheet rock needs repair from the children? Unless they were really rough on it, sheetrock repair and paint shouldn't cost much. If the kids damage, perhaps you could ask your sister to learn to patch and paint - they have free classes at Home Depot.

Anyhow, I feel a lot of anger in your post and maybe you feel that your sister has taken advantage. I think the best you can do is put the past in the past and move forward with a clear head. And like a previous post stated - find an attorney!
"The one who covets is the poorer man, | For he would have that which he never can; | But he who doesn't have and doesn't crave | Is rich, though you may hold him but a knave." - Wife of Bath tale

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jfn111
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by jfn111 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 am

I don't want to say never but.. she'll never get a loan on a house that can't be insured unless she takes out a rehab loan. Good luck with that because she will now have to qualify for a higher loan amount to cover the repairs. If you stay involved it sounds like it will turn into a money pit for all of you. It seems you have 2 choices, boot her out or quit claim it to her.

adamthesmythe
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by adamthesmythe » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:12 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:13 am
I'm sure a lawyer can force a sale of the house (I forget the legal term).
It's called a partition action. And the lawyer will cost $ and time.

I don't know OP's financial position...but...signing over his interest starts to sound like a good idea.

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BolderBoy
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by BolderBoy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:21 am

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:29 am
If you walk away, get your name off the title. If it's in your name, then anything that happens there can get you sued. Or fined by the city for code violations. Quit claim.
OP, it sounds like your relationship with this particular sibling is already in the toilet (she's a deadbeat). Where does $25k stand in relation to your net worth? If it is a tiny amount and you want to avoid a LOT of potential hassles going forward, I agree with NotWhoYouThink, file a quit claim deed (don't need a lawyer to do it) to get yourself off the title to the property and never look back.

Then you can ignore this sibling forever after.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

g2morrow
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by g2morrow » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:16 am

best to just get your name off of it - people like that will just keep coming back for money.

Whats the likely hood of giving her money and it not going to the repairs? or of her being able to get a loan?

Maybe agree to a smaller amount just to get what you can. But I would under no circumstances put out any cash.

Good luck - sucks to be in that situation, do you best to get out.

2comma
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by 2comma » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:25 am

I'd just get my name off the deed and let it go. I wouldn't expect to be able to save the relationship.

In the family one of my brothers married into grandpa left a few thousand acres of farmland to several family members. The issue became some of it was road frontage on a 4-lane highway. They decided to lawyer up and fight it out which went on for years. The family story is the lawyers made out the family members got almost nothing and no one was on speaking terms ever again. Sad...
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-buzz-
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by -buzz- » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:23 pm

rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister (that lives in the house) is trying to buy our part out and does not yet know if she will be approved for the mortgage (she had to get a co-signer).
...
She has asked us to take 100K AND turn around and give her 5k from each of our share so she can fix the house.
Definitely do not agree to $100k financed with $15k cash back without disclosing to the lender. That would be fraud because you are misrepresenting the true sale price of the property (which is $85k).

You stand to net $20k maximum if you could do a buyout. It would not be worth it to me.

If I could get the other siblings on board, I'd let her keep the house but with an absolutely firm boundary that the house was now her responsibility and I would not be giving her any money at all for future expenses. I make sure the quitclaim was properly filed so the sister was the only name on the deed.

Since they have been unable to pay taxes and maintenance in the past, my guess is that they will eventually lose the house. Either they will find a way to use it as collateral for a loan and then default or they will not pay the taxes.

gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:00 pm

So, it sounds like she is offering you 85K? Rather than walk away, why not just take your share of the 85K?

AlwaysWannaLearn
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by AlwaysWannaLearn » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:13 pm

.....
Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:27 pm

A Partition judgement can be lengthy and expensive. (done this) (legal counsel gets paid first).
Suggest seek legal counsel for "your" options (not others).

As others have suggested, if I've read it correctly, if you have $25k to gain (at best), suggest legally stepping away from the entire thing. Less stress. Isolate yourself from further expenses and obligations or donations (money pit). Just say, "family's more important to me, I'm stepping out of this legally, you folks work it out between yourselves . . . and don't ask me for money."

Again,
1. Seek your own personal legal counsel.
2. Remove yourself from the situation.

j

JoeRetire
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm

rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere.

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
The executor can sell the house out from under her, particularly if a sale was stipulated in the will. The estate may need to start eviction procedures, then follow the process dictated by local laws.

The executor should talk about this with the attorney being used to settle the estate.

Rupert
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by Rupert » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:52 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm
rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere.

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
The executor can sell the house out from under her, particularly if a sale was stipulated in the will. The estate may need to start eviction procedures, then follow the process dictated by local laws.

The executor should talk about this with the attorney being used to settle the estate.
I understood OP to say that the house was in his and his siblings' names before his mother died. So it wouldn't have been in the mother's estate. The children have owned it all along.

gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:53 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm
rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere.

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
The executor can sell the house out from under her, particularly if a sale was stipulated in the will. The estate may need to start eviction procedures, then follow the process dictated by local laws.

The executor should talk about this with the attorney being used to settle the estate.
There's just not enough in this get attorneys involved. If she's been living there with the permission of her mother and her siblings, this will not be an open and shut eviction. Such a living situation, especially with an ill mother, opens enough avenues and issues to give any good attorney a way to tie you up and delay indefinitely. Settle with her for what you can get, and put it behind you.

Dottie57
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:08 pm

Op - quit claim the house ASAP.

You have no liability insurance! Get out of owning the house ASAP, YOU COULD BE SUED! if anyone is hurt on the property.

jminv
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by jminv » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:18 pm

I would probably be inclined to go with what she wants only because any other option will be more expensive. If you evict her, you will need a lawyer, it will take time, and she will probably further destroy the place. Then you will need to supervise the rehab of this home which sounds like a major job in itself and probably will make you and your siblings even more angry at fixing what she's done. If you sell to her, it all becomes her responsibility. We all know how it will end but at least it won't be in your name anymore. I really wouldn't want this in my name at this point. Wouldn't give (and here I do mean gift) her anything before she closed on the house. What a miserable situation, really feel sorry for you.

JoeRetire
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:21 pm

Rupert wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:52 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm
rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere.

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
The executor can sell the house out from under her, particularly if a sale was stipulated in the will. The estate may need to start eviction procedures, then follow the process dictated by local laws.

The executor should talk about this with the attorney being used to settle the estate.
I understood OP to say that the house was in his and his siblings' names before his mother died. So it wouldn't have been in the mother's estate. The children have owned it all along.
Hard to tell.

There's a conflict between "Also right after my mother inherited the home, she put the home in all of her children's names (mine, 2 sisters and 1 brother)." and "My mother wanted this house sold after she passed and the proceeds split between all of siblings."

JoeRetire
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:22 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:53 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm
rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
My sister has told my brother that if she cannot by this house, then it will be a cold day in heck before we get her out because she isn't going anywhere.

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
The executor can sell the house out from under her, particularly if a sale was stipulated in the will. The estate may need to start eviction procedures, then follow the process dictated by local laws.

The executor should talk about this with the attorney being used to settle the estate.
There's just not enough in this get attorneys involved. If she's been living there with the permission of her mother and her siblings, this will not be an open and shut eviction. Such a living situation, especially with an ill mother, opens enough avenues and issues to give any good attorney a way to tie you up and delay indefinitely. Settle with her for what you can get, and put it behind you.
Attorneys provide advice. Sometimes that advice is "settle".

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cheese_breath
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:41 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:21 pm
Rupert wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:52 pm
I understood OP to say that the house was in his and his siblings' names before his mother died. So it wouldn't have been in the mother's estate. The children have owned it all along.
Hard to tell.

There's a conflict between "Also right after my mother inherited the home, she put the home in all of her children's names (mine, 2 sisters and 1 brother)." and "My mother wanted this house sold after she passed and the proceeds split between all of siblings."
Not hard to tell at all. She put the house in their names. She might have wanted them to sell it and split the loot, but that carries no weight after she gave up ownership. My MIL told different stories to her different children, leading to different expectations when she died. But in the end the legal specified beneficiaries on her stuff determined who got what.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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tinscale
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by tinscale » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Sell sis your share and give her $5 grand. Then say adios and have nothing at all more to do with the house or sis.

CurlyDave
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by CurlyDave » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:04 am

This sounds like a lot of aggravation for $20-25K. Unless this represented a significant portion of my portfolio, I would just kiss it off and walk away.

As has been suggested, a quit claim deed is the way to do this. You can buy the form in any good stationary store, and you can file it with the county recorder yourself.

At the risk of sounding cynical, I will make a prediction. Even if all of the other siblings also quit claim in favor of the sister in possession, she will not be able to make payments or taxes and will end up losing the house. Then it will magically become your fault -- not hers. Be prepared for this to happen.

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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by gotester2000 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am

To solve the issue amicably the remaining 3 siblings should agree to quit claim by taking 85k. But what you have described clearly means that your sister has no money or cant take a mortgage - so from where will she give you 85k? If I were you I will take whatever she can give(even nothing) and quit claim - stop paying anything for the house.
Regarding things you did in good faith for family - be glad you did something good without expecting anything back - living in resentment will only give you further pain.

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cheese_breath
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by cheese_breath » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:09 am

gotester2000 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am
...Regarding things you did in good faith for family - be glad you did something good without expecting anything back - living in resentment will only give you further pain.
+1 Don't keep scorecards of who did more than others. Just be content in the memory you did it for your mother.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by RadAudit » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:10 am

gotester2000 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am
living in resentment will only give you further pain.
+1

My wife went through something similar with the division of an estate after the death of her parents. I agree with the recommendations to get your name off the deed and walk away. And, once you do, don't hold a grudge.

I doubt if what you'd net after the sale of the property would be worth the pain. At least, I hope you aren't in a position where you need the money that badly.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The Calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

chevca
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by chevca » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:30 am

I wonder if we will hear from the OP again about this one?

gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:38 am

chevca wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:30 am
I wonder if we will hear from the OP again about this one?
In my experience, there's two, sometimes three sides to every story. I hope that as a family they can resolve this in a way that their mom would have been proud of.

chevca
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by chevca » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:18 am

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:38 am
chevca wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:30 am
I wonder if we will hear from the OP again about this one?
In my experience, there's two, sometimes three sides to every story. I hope that as a family they can resolve this in a way that their mom would have been proud of.
Very true... two sides and somewhere in the middle lies the truth. :happy

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vineviz
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by vineviz » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 am

I suppose one other approach would be for the three non-resident siblings to consolidate their holdings so that the person who is most interested in pursuing a solution is the sole owner of 75%.

Let's say "A" is the sister living in the house and that "B", "C", and "D" are the other three siblings.

If B and C sell their shares to D at some discounted price (making this up, but let's say $12,500 each), then D has both some real motivation to fix the problem AND some upside if they do. B and C are done with the financial drama without losing ALL their inheritance.

My experience is that in any group of siblings, some will be more conflict averse than others. Those are the ones who should probably sell out at fifty cents on the dollar.

The purchasing sibling would own 75% of a $125k house with just $25k of cash invested. That might give them some room to make something happen without dragging the other two into it and without needing a three-way conference every week.
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gmaynardkrebs
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by gmaynardkrebs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:41 am

vineviz wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 am
I suppose one other approach would be for the three non-resident siblings to consolidate their holdings so that the person who is most interested in pursuing a solution is the sole owner of 75%.

Let's say "A" is the sister living in the house and that "B", "C", and "D" are the other three siblings.

If B and C sell their shares to D at some discounted price (making this up, but let's say $12,500 each), then D has both some real motivation to fix the problem AND some upside if they do. B and C are done with the financial drama without losing ALL their inheritance.

My experience is that in any group of siblings, some will be more conflict averse than others. Those are the ones who should probably sell out at fifty cents on the dollar.

The purchasing sibling would own 75% of a $125k house with just $25k of cash invested. That might give them some room to make something happen without dragging the other two into it and without needing a three-way conference every week.
The odds of A ever paying a cent to D are approximately 0.

chevca
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by chevca » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:05 pm

vineviz wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 am
I suppose one other approach would be for the three non-resident siblings to consolidate their holdings so that the person who is most interested in pursuing a solution is the sole owner of 75%.

Let's say "A" is the sister living in the house and that "B", "C", and "D" are the other three siblings.

If B and C sell their shares to D at some discounted price (making this up, but let's say $12,500 each), then D has both some real motivation to fix the problem AND some upside if they do. B and C are done with the financial drama without losing ALL their inheritance.

My experience is that in any group of siblings, some will be more conflict averse than others. Those are the ones who should probably sell out at fifty cents on the dollar.

The purchasing sibling would own 75% of a $125k house with just $25k of cash invested. That might give them some room to make something happen without dragging the other two into it and without needing a three-way conference every week.
That still would require a cooperative sibling A, which it doesn't sound like will ever happen.

This way would likely just end up with it costing two siblings $12,500 to get their name off the deed, and costing the one sibling who knows how much by the time legal fees, repairs, or whatever are done. Sure, it's finally theirs, but they've put $50k into legal fees and repairs to get it insurable, let alone presentable for a sale. With Sibling A fighting it every step of the way. No thanks.

If we were talking a $1.25M house, sure, fight it out. But, it's just not worth it for the scenario presented here. The three should get their names off it and let sibling A have the mess. Let the county deal with her and getting her out. That is harsh. But, likely to save a lot of sanity for the other three.

epoxyresin
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by epoxyresin » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:03 pm

I've said it elsewhere, but I feel like this conversation really highlights how high the average net worth on this board is. Most people are perfectly willing get into bitter family fights over a lot less money. Yes, there's a risk here that legal costs will eat most or all of the money, but depending on the poster's financial situation is might be worth the time and aggravation to fight it out. You can at least explore options before being so fast to wash your hands of it entirely.

See if your sis can actually get a loan from somewhere. She almost assuredly can't, but if she did, the whole matter goes away. And like a lot of people were saying, it's probably worth it to take a lot less than the $25k that you're hoping for. Remember, your other options are getting zero for it, which a lot of people are here advocating, or putting down some money to fight it legally, with the final payout being subject to quite a bit of uncertainty, not to mention the time and headache.

If and when she can't, then you start going down two routes. The first is trying to get her voluntarily to leave. She says now she won't, but you might be able convince her, either through threat of legal action and/or some amount of payment for her share. If you three say "here's a $25 k check, and we'll help you move your stuff into your new apartment" that could be hard to say no to, depending on her financial situation. At the same time, you go talk to a lawyer and actually figure out how much it might cost to force a sale. Probably costs what, a couple hundred bucks to talk to the lawyer and have him figure out how long and expensive the process would actually be? Then at least you know what you're potentially looking at, and can make a better decision about how to proceed.

Is the house actually worth $125 k on the open market as is? Or are you gonna need to sink some money into the house to get it up to code before you can sell it, and are you actually willing to do that?

And of course, the other posters aren't wrong that while you're name's on the title and it's not insured, you're facing some potential risk if something happens. And you'll presumably have to keep paying taxes and upkeep on this while any legal battle's happening, so don't discount those from your analysis. If you do decide to fight it out, your $25k share that your imagining will probably net out to quite a bit less, so you want to figure out what it actually will be first (by talking to the lawyer and estimating ongoing expenses).

JGoneRiding
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:37 pm

gmaynardkrebs wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:41 am
vineviz wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 am
I suppose one other approach would be for the three non-resident siblings to consolidate their holdings so that the person who is most interested in pursuing a solution is the sole owner of 75%.

Let's say "A" is the sister living in the house and that "B", "C", and "D" are the other three siblings.

If B and C sell their shares to D at some discounted price (making this up, but let's say $12,500 each), then D has both some real motivation to fix the problem AND some upside if they do. B and C are done with the financial drama without losing ALL their inheritance.

My experience is that in any group of siblings, some will be more conflict averse than others. Those are the ones who should probably sell out at fifty cents on the dollar.

The purchasing sibling would own 75% of a $125k house with just $25k of cash invested. That might give them some room to make something happen without dragging the other two into it and without needing a three-way conference every week.
The odds of A ever paying a cent to D are approximately 0.
But at that point d would hold a lot of cards and could get an eviction or forced sell.

remomnyc
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by remomnyc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:16 pm

vineviz wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 am
I suppose one other approach would be for the three non-resident siblings to consolidate their holdings so that the person who is most interested in pursuing a solution is the sole owner of 75%.

Let's say "A" is the sister living in the house and that "B", "C", and "D" are the other three siblings.

If B and C sell their shares to D at some discounted price (making this up, but let's say $12,500 each), then D has both some real motivation to fix the problem AND some upside if they do. B and C are done with the financial drama without losing ALL their inheritance.

My experience is that in any group of siblings, some will be more conflict averse than others. Those are the ones who should probably sell out at fifty cents on the dollar.

The purchasing sibling would own 75% of a $125k house with just $25k of cash invested. That might give them some room to make something happen without dragging the other two into it and without needing a three-way conference every week.
I like this approach and I would offer to sell my share for one-eighth of any future sale proceeds so the sibling willing to pursue would not be out cash upfront. If no one wants to fight, I would quit claim. We were facing something similar with a squatter sibling. I know I would quit claim rather than fight her if she refused to leave after my parents passed, but I also know the share has more value for another sibling who would want to fight.

BarbK
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by BarbK » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:37 pm

That's a terrible situation to be in; but what's to keep the deadbeat sister from selling the house/property if everyone quit claims their share to her?

Can the owners get liability only insurance on the house to protect them from a lawsuit should it arise. I have no idea how a liability only policy would work with multiple owners.

What is the ratio of land value to total value?

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Tamarind
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by Tamarind » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:29 am

Sorry, that sounds like an awful situation. I'm sure your mother meant well but we get stories like this fairly often. If you and your siblings don't need the money from the sale, the fastest way out is to get the house appraised, gift your shares to your sister (quitclaim deed) and then refuse to engage in what follows.

If it's really not insurable, your sister will not be able to get a mortgage for it anyway. If the 3 of you agreed you could legally force a sale, but then you're going to spend a lot on lawyers and probably do even more damage to relations with your sister.

If she can't or won't pay the whole tax bill, maintenance costs, etc herself, your sister will lose the house in the end whether you sell it to her or give it to her.

The best outcome here is that you all gift your shares to her and then she manages to sell it herself before it's too late.

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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by chevca » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 am

BarbK wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:37 pm
That's a terrible situation to be in; but what's to keep the deadbeat sister from selling the house/property if everyone quit claims their share to her?
Nothing. It's hers to sell or keep at that point. But, she would have to fix it up to even get it insurable to sell for any decent price... or, she should really fix it up at least that much if she kept it. That seem highly unlikely either way though. Or, sell it to a "cash for any house" place for pretty much pennies.

The writing is sort of on the wall though that she would stay put and not fix anything until the county took it from her. Granted, I don't know her, but from the information given it seems that would be the case.

rgs92
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by rgs92 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:46 am

I personally would never consider getting into a dispute with family members over anything, certainly not a minor amount of money.
And this is absolutely true since this does not involve anyone asking you for new money, which would be a different story.

And trying to put a value on personal caregiving is also not something that I would ever ever go near.
As others have said, I believe the best thing (the only thing) is to let it go.

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cheese_breath
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:09 am

I wonder what the sister's version of this story would be. Maybe something like she gave up 10 years of her life caring for your mother while the rest of you thought throwing some money her way took care of your responsibility? I'm not saying that's the way it was because I wasn't there. But don't be surprised if you hear something like that if you take her to court.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

cherijoh
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by cherijoh » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:18 am

sjt wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:03 am
rosepetal wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 pm
The house needs some TLC. Before my sister and her kids moved in, it was a nice house (only about 10 years old). After my sister moved in, the house was destroyed and now will take a lot to fix it up (new roof, new cabinets, paint, sheet rock, new decks, etc..)

What recourse do we have if she refuses to leave? Sorry for rambling and the log post.
A bit confused about the way the first part is worded. Are you insinuating if your sister and kids didn't move in, the house would not have needed a roof or deck? These things degrade over time and need replacement. Same with the A/C system. Sounds like the other children put some money into it - but I assume it was also when your mother was living there, so she also benefited from AC repair?

Perhaps the sheet rock needs repair from the children? Unless they were really rough on it, sheetrock repair and paint shouldn't cost much. If the kids damage, perhaps you could ask your sister to learn to patch and paint - they have free classes at Home Depot.

Anyhow, I feel a lot of anger in your post and maybe you feel that your sister has taken advantage. I think the best you can do is put the past in the past and move forward with a clear head. And like a previous post stated - find an attorney!
I wonder if OP's perspective comes from the fact that if the sister and her family had been paying a reasonable amount of rent and covering their own living expenses instead of being leeches, her mom would likely have had the money to keep up the house rather than letting it deteriorate.

OP - I think the first thing you need to recognize is that you mom enabled your sister's behavior. It was unfair to the rest of you an IMO you have the right to be angry. However, you need to separate this from the financial decisions facing you and your responsible siblings. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

I think it is highly doubtful that your deadbeat sister will be able to get a mortgage - especially if the house is in such bad shape that it can't be insured. Can you determine the value of the land vs. the structure? In my county, it is split out on the property tax bill.

IMO it would extremely stupid for you or your responsible siblings to agree to be a cosigner on any loan or to put in additional money for repairs while your sister and her family continues to live there. I think the best thing for you would be to walk away as hard as that is to do.

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KlingKlang
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by KlingKlang » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:58 am

cherijoh wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:18 am
OP - I think the first thing you need to recognize is that you mom enabled your sister's behavior. It was unfair to the rest of you an IMO you have the right to be angry. However, you need to separate this from the financial decisions facing you and your responsible siblings. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

I think it is highly doubtful that your deadbeat sister will be able to get a mortgage - especially if the house is in such bad shape that it can't be insured. Can you determine the value of the land vs. the structure? In my county, it is split out on the property tax bill.

IMO it would extremely stupid for you or your responsible siblings to agree to be a cosigner on any loan or to put in additional money for repairs while your sister and her family continues to live there. I think the best thing for you would be to walk away as hard as that is to do.
Wow, what a tough situation.

I would be interested in knowing if sister and her three adult children (sounds like none of them have spouses) have any source of income other than public assistance. It sounds like they think getting a mortgage is like getting a wish where the bank gives you money and you don't have to worry about anything again.

I'm an only child and so no expert on sibling relationships, but I agree with the advice to quit claim the house, never give them another cent, and if they complain say 'See you on a cold day in heck'.

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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by 47Percent » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:07 am

This is somewhat of a long shot. But see if you can find a charity that will take your share of the house. If the other two siblings also go along with you the chances may be better.

In that case, you will at least get to deduct $25K (or possibly more) which will be worth something.
No attorney's fees, no emotional roller coaster, and you get some immediate resolution.
The down side of course, is your sister who is living in the house may not be able to continue to depend on the sympathy and inaction of the other title holders.

Te charity can figure out how they want to monetize it. They may come up with a creative way to do that.
Last edited by 47Percent on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

psteinx
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Re: Selling mom's house

Post by psteinx » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:27 am

1) OP posted this on Tuesday - first post on these forums. It's now Friday and despite many responses, OP has not responded, posted more info, etc. There's a decent chance that OP's post was a one and done, and we're mostly whistling into the wind, now.

2) OP's post presents one side of a story that may be more complex, with some somewhat ambiguous details. Some have, rightfully, IMO, suggested as much (that the morality or whatever of the situation may be complex). I would not be so quick to assume the worst of OP's sister.

3) I'm not confident that I know how the house was titled during the 10 years the mother was alive. i.e. Was it owned by the 4 siblings (alone), by all 5, or owned by the mother alone. Even if the legal titling was the first case it was probably functionally considered by the 4 siblings to basically be the mother's house and responsibility (sorta), supported by the sibs, because it sounds like the mother was financially limited.

4) If so, then it was sort of the mother's responsibility to maintain the house while she lived. But if she was financially constrained (likely), and limited physically and in handiperson skillset (I'd guess likely as well), then she wasn't really able to do so. Much of the decay to the house was a function of time. The extra load of having sister and sister's kids in the house likely contributed some, but less, I suspect than OP infers.

5) Its really hard to evaluate the situation, on the whole, without a better picture of the financial situation of all the participants, and the family and social dynamics, both past and present. Yes, it's possible that sister behaved badly (as OP apparently believes), but as another poster suggests, its possible that sister provided a lot of care to mother while mother was alive that is perhaps insufficiently appreciated by OP.

6) I agree with one poster that writing off $15-25K in value is something that perhaps many here are too eager to do. If OP is sitting on a $2M+ 401K, as many here on this forum are, then yeah, it's easier. But many Americans have minimal financial resources/reserves. The OP does not make it sound like there are oodles of wealth in this family in general, among the mother, the sister, the OP, or perhaps the other sibs. I understand that legal proceedings are financially costly and wrought with familial/social relationship dangers, and the thread respondents as a whole are perhaps right to generally suggest caution here and a willingness to be generous/write-off/walk away. But again, it's complicated, we don't really know the details, and the amounts in question COULD be quite significant relative to current financial resources for many or all of the participants...

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