New book based on Millionaire Next Door

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timmy
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New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by timmy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:03 am

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1493035355 [link formatted by admin LadyGeek]

The Next Millionaire Next Door: Enduring Strategies for Building Wealth Hardcover – October 1, 2018
by Thomas J. Stanley Ph.D. (Author), Sarah Stanley, Ph.D Fallaw (Author)


Over the past 40 years, Tom Stanley and his daughter Sarah Stanley Fallaw have been involved in research examining how self-made, economically successful Americans became that way. Despite the publication of The Millionaire Next Door, The Millionaire Mind, and others, myths about
wealth in American still abound. Government officials, journalists, and many American still tend to
confuse income with wealth. A new generation of household financial managers are hearing from so-called experts in personal financial management due to the proliferation of the cottage industry of financial blogs, podcasts, and the like. In many cases, these outlets are simply experiences shared without science, case studies without data based on broader populations. Therefore, the authors decided to take another look at millionaires in the United States to examine what changes could be seen 20 years after the original publication of The Millionaire Next Door. In this book the authors highlight how specific decisions, behaviors, and characteristics align with the discipline of wealth building, covering areas such as consumption, budgeting, careers, investing, and financial management in general. They include results from quantitative studies of wealth as well as case studies of individuals who have been successful in building wealth. They discuss general paths to building wealth on your own, focusing specifically on careers and lifestyles associated with each path, and what it takes to be successful in each...


The original book was such a pivotal book for me that I'll need to read this one. Even if it ends of being The Godfather, part 3.

Odysseus
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Odysseus » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am

Thank you for sharing this. I really enjoyed these books...certainly the first two anyway.

I'm surprised to see this new title, as I believe that Mr. Stanley died a few years ago in a car accident. This leads me to question how good this new title will be, but I'll certainly check it out.

timmy
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by timmy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:41 am

Odysseus wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am
Thank you for sharing this. I really enjoyed these books...certainly the first two anyway.

I'm surprised to see this new title, as I believe that Mr. Stanley died a few years ago in a car accident. This leads me to question how good this new title will be, but I'll certainly check it out.
Here is what I recall (various places on the internet). He was working on this with his daughter. It was pretty far along before he passed. She is finishing it up. She still blogs on his website. Her content is solid and echos Mr. Stanley's line of thinking well. So, I am kind of hopeful for this book.

DireStraits
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by DireStraits » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:21 am

As others, I enjoyed The Millionaire Next Door and The Millionaire Mind. I will take the time to read the new book as well. Thanks for sharing.

Rus In Urbe
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Rus In Urbe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:31 am

I loved the Millionaire Next Door, which I picked up in an airport bookstore. I left it behind in a guest room of a relative I was concerned about, um, on purpose, hoping it would inspire more frugal habits. I never asked about it afterward, but I did notice some behavioral changes during the following years. One of the big takeaways from that book was the phrase: "Big hat, no cattle."

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by HongKonger » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:41 am

Rus In Urbe wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:31 am
I loved the Millionaire Next Door, which I picked up in an airport bookstore. I left it behind in a guest room of a relative I was concerned about, um, on purpose, hoping it would inspire more frugal habits. I never asked about it afterward, but I did notice some behavioral changes during the following years. One of the big takeaways from that book was the phrase: "Big hat, no cattle."
Ha ha - I guess that's the US version of the UK's "Fur coat and no knickers"

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munemaker
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by munemaker » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:09 am

DireStraits wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:21 am
As others, I enjoyed The Millionaire Next Door and The Millionaire Mind. I will take the time to read the new book as well. Thanks for sharing.
I had a total misconception of millionaires before reading these books. The excellent research and presented in a way that was enjoyable to read and easy to understand.

sport
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by sport » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:54 am

I read the first book and learned from it. However, it all comes down to this: If you spend all your money, you won't have any.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Carefreeap » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am

sport wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:54 am
I read the first book and learned from it. However, it all comes down to this: If you spend all your money, you won't have any.
Lol, you're right but what I thought it did a really good job at was pointing out that people who look like they are doing well very well not be.

The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.

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laughlinlvr
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by laughlinlvr » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:07 am

HongKonger wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:41 am

Ha ha - I guess that's the US version of the UK's "Fur coat and no knickers"
+1
Investing - The hardest way to make an easy living.

deltaneutral83
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by deltaneutral83 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am

Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.

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DanMahowny
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by DanMahowny » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:31 am

Preordered. Looking forward to reading this one; see if the data changes much since the original.

I would not be a millionaire today if it weren't for TMND. Damn glad I read it.
Funding secured

Carefreeap
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
Sure. They are higher earners and their goods and services don't go out of business. And if you are a second or third generation professional you may have been taught (or saw) how to manage one's money.

My parents were convinced that if you were a doctor you wouldn't have any money problems and that's just not true.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool

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willthrill81
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:29 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
Stanley noted in his second book that in relation to their incomes, both physicians and attorneys tend to poor accumulators of wealth, poorer than most professions.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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ofcmetz
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by ofcmetz » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:31 am

I've pretty much read all the books in this series. When I read the Millionaire Next Door I was 25 years old and it was super eye opening. It started me on a path of living below my means and investing. I look forward to this next book.
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.

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willthrill81
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:34 am

Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am
My parents were convinced that if you were a doctor you wouldn't have any money problems and that's just not true.
:thumbsup

Absolutely. It comes from the mindset that income equals wealth, but that's just plain wrong on several levels.

We have a friend who's a gastroenterologist in his mid-30s. With all of his debt, he will probably be in his mid 40s before his net worth reaches zero. Granted, if he can hang in there and not burn out, he stands a good chance of having significant wealth by the time he's in his 60s, but I certainly wouldn't trade financial places with him.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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tfb
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by tfb » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
Because there are 20 times more teachers to begin with (just an example, I'm not sure how many times more)? Just 6 times more in numbers doesn't cut it. deltaneutral83 was talking about the percentage of millionaires relative to their proportion in population. What % of lawyers or doctors are millionaires? What % of teachers are millionaires? Which is higher?
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

deltaneutral83
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by deltaneutral83 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.

KlangFool
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am

tfb wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
Because there are 20 times more teachers to begin with (just an example, I'm not sure how many times more)? Just 6 times more in numbers doesn't cut it. deltaneutral83 was talking about the percentage of millionaires relative to their proportion in population. What % of lawyers or doctors are millionaires? What % of teachers are millionaires? Which is higher?
tfb,

Good question. I do not know the answer.

KlangFool

KlangFool
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:54 am

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.
deltaneutral83,

Please note that even with dual income, the teacher's household is most likely to be at a lower income than either lawyer's or doctor's single income household.

In summary, it is not about the income after you exceed a certain threshold.

KlangFool

texasdiver
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by texasdiver » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 am

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.
EXACTLY. Teacher here married to a doctor. A household of two teachers in a northern state that has decent teacher salaries can easily equal that of a primary care doctor with a stay home spouse. Veteran teachers who are motivated to take advantage of all the side gig and moonlighting opportunities (coaching, test prep tutoring, teaching summer school, etc.) can pull in $80-100k in many states. And there’s is always the opportunity to move up into higher paying administrative jobs. It is also much easier to be a teacher with kids than a doctor with kids because your schedules match your kids and schools are usually accommodating of child care during outside of class duties. Schools often have subsidized child care for employees and I was always able to take my kids to work during teacher work days as did many other teachers. Try doing that if you are an ER doc.

On the other hand, teachers in states like OK, WV, and MS may earn less than half that. In some cases teachers also have good traditional pensions available although that is changing. In some states new teachers are pushed into new 401k type programs or hybrid programs. And in some states teachers get no social security. But in a state with good teacher salaries and benefits like WA or MN or MA a two teacher household can easily accumulate substantial assets and join the millionaire next door club. Many don’t because they are trusting of their pensions. But many do.

SelfEmployed123
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by SelfEmployed123 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:28 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am
tfb wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
Because there are 20 times more teachers to begin with (just an example, I'm not sure how many times more)? Just 6 times more in numbers doesn't cut it. deltaneutral83 was talking about the percentage of millionaires relative to their proportion in population. What % of lawyers or doctors are millionaires? What % of teachers are millionaires? Which is higher?
tfb,

Good question. I do not know the answer.

KlangFool
I have edited below to spell out the math.

This back and forth made me curious, so I did some research. Please bear with me :D The National Center for Education Statistics estimates there are 3.6 million teachers in the US. A 2016 census of licensed physicians (https://www.fsmb.org/globalassets/advoc ... census.pdf) estimates there are about 953,000 physicians in the US. As of 2016 there were about 1.3 million attorneys in the US (https://www.denniswpottslaw.com/united- ... rneys-map/). The research from Spectrum Group estimates there are 8.6 million households in the US worth $1 million or more. The survey says 12% are teachers, 2% are physicians, and 2% are attorneys. Using those numbers:

Teachers: 12% times 8.6 million = 984000 teacher millionaires / 3.6 million total teachers in USA = 27 percent

Doctors: 2% times 8.6 million = 164000 doctor millionaires / 953k total doctors in USA = 17 percent

Attorneys: 2% times 8.6 million = 164000 attorney millionaires / 1.3 million total attorneys in USA = 12.4 percent

Thus, about 27% of all teachers are in millionaire households. Meanwhile, 17 percent of physicians are in millionaire households while only 12 percent of attorneys are in millionaire households.

If my numbers are right, I think it's really interesting how much more likely teachers are to accumulate over $1 million than doctors and especially attorneys. Living within your means and saving is clearly very important. I suspect teachers are also more likely to have a dual income household.
Last edited by SelfEmployed123 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Get what you can, and what you get hold, 'Tis the stone that will turn all your lead into gold." | -Benjamin Franklin

KlangFool
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:35 am

texasdiver wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.
EXACTLY. Teacher here married to a doctor. A household of two teachers in a northern state that has decent teacher salaries can easily equal that of a primary care doctor with a stay home spouse. Veteran teachers who are motivated to take advantage of all the side gig and moonlighting opportunities (coaching, test prep tutoring, teaching summer school, etc.) can pull in $80-100k in many states. And there’s is always the opportunity to move up into higher paying administrative jobs. It is also much easier to be a teacher with kids than a doctor with kids because your schedules match your kids and schools are usually accommodating of child care during outside of class duties. Schools often have subsidized child care for employees and I was always able to take my kids to work during teacher work days as did many other teachers. Try doing that if you are an ER doc.

On the other hand, teachers in states like OK, WV, and MS may earn less than half that. In some cases teachers also have good traditional pensions available although that is changing. In some states new teachers are pushed into new 401k type programs or hybrid programs. And in some states teachers get no social security. But in a state with good teacher salaries and benefits like WA or MN or MA a two teacher household can easily accumulate substantial assets and join the millionaire next door club. Many don’t because they are trusting of their pensions. But many do.
texasdiver,

On top of that, we need to add in the additional educational cost and the student loan of the doctors and lawyers.

KlangFool

SelfEmployed123
Posts: 183
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by SelfEmployed123 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:41 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:35 am
texasdiver wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.
EXACTLY. Teacher here married to a doctor. A household of two teachers in a northern state that has decent teacher salaries can easily equal that of a primary care doctor with a stay home spouse. Veteran teachers who are motivated to take advantage of all the side gig and moonlighting opportunities (coaching, test prep tutoring, teaching summer school, etc.) can pull in $80-100k in many states. And there’s is always the opportunity to move up into higher paying administrative jobs. It is also much easier to be a teacher with kids than a doctor with kids because your schedules match your kids and schools are usually accommodating of child care during outside of class duties. Schools often have subsidized child care for employees and I was always able to take my kids to work during teacher work days as did many other teachers. Try doing that if you are an ER doc.

On the other hand, teachers in states like OK, WV, and MS may earn less than half that. In some cases teachers also have good traditional pensions available although that is changing. In some states new teachers are pushed into new 401k type programs or hybrid programs. And in some states teachers get no social security. But in a state with good teacher salaries and benefits like WA or MN or MA a two teacher household can easily accumulate substantial assets and join the millionaire next door club. Many don’t because they are trusting of their pensions. But many do.
texasdiver,

On top of that, we need to add in the additional educational cost and the student loan of the doctors and lawyers.

KlangFool
Yes...teaching requires a 4 year degree only. Lawyers require 3 additional years of law school. Physicians require 4 years of medical school plus a minimum of 3 years of residency. The average student loan debt of lawyers leaving law school is about $84000. Average student loan debt of doctors is about $166,000. The average student loan debt of teachers with a master's degree is about $50,000. Fewer years in school plus less student loan debt really makes a big difference.
"Get what you can, and what you get hold, 'Tis the stone that will turn all your lead into gold." | -Benjamin Franklin

texasdiver
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by texasdiver » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:32 pm

SelfEmployed123 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:41 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:35 am
texasdiver wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:44 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
One thing to note is that this study takes into account the households, and as pointed out in the link, teachers are more likely to be a part of duel income households and Dr's/Lawyers are not, however, the #s are overwhelming nonetheless.
EXACTLY. Teacher here married to a doctor. A household of two teachers in a northern state that has decent teacher salaries can easily equal that of a primary care doctor with a stay home spouse. Veteran teachers who are motivated to take advantage of all the side gig and moonlighting opportunities (coaching, test prep tutoring, teaching summer school, etc.) can pull in $80-100k in many states. And there’s is always the opportunity to move up into higher paying administrative jobs. It is also much easier to be a teacher with kids than a doctor with kids because your schedules match your kids and schools are usually accommodating of child care during outside of class duties. Schools often have subsidized child care for employees and I was always able to take my kids to work during teacher work days as did many other teachers. Try doing that if you are an ER doc.

On the other hand, teachers in states like OK, WV, and MS may earn less than half that. In some cases teachers also have good traditional pensions available although that is changing. In some states new teachers are pushed into new 401k type programs or hybrid programs. And in some states teachers get no social security. But in a state with good teacher salaries and benefits like WA or MN or MA a two teacher household can easily accumulate substantial assets and join the millionaire next door club. Many don’t because they are trusting of their pensions. But many do.
texasdiver,

On top of that, we need to add in the additional educational cost and the student loan of the doctors and lawyers.

KlangFool
Yes...teaching requires a 4 year degree only. Lawyers require 3 additional years of law school. Physicians require 4 years of medical school plus a minimum of 3 years of residency. The average student loan debt of lawyers leaving law school is about $84000. Average student loan debt of doctors is about $166,000. The average student loan debt of teachers with a master's degree is about $50,000. Fewer years in school plus less student loan debt really makes a big difference.
Exactly. Typical teacher might start working right out of college at age 24. And there are numerous loan repayment programs for teachers in underserved areas. Plus there is generally no professional penalty for teachers who attend cheap local public universities. And in education the MA is often just a check off for salary advancement. Many teachers just do it cheaply via online schools or through evening and summer programs at local public universities. Not the same thing at all as say an expensive MBA from a private university. By age 30 a teacher could be approaching mid career with no debt and substantial 403b savings whereas a typical physician will still be in residency accumulating debt.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:47 pm

We're a bit to focused on high salaries that "could" create a millionaire. After reading the Millionaire Next Door, I started telling my kids that just because their friend lives in a big house doesn't mean they have a lot of money. One day, my son comes in and tells me his friend's dad (lawyer) got in trouble, lost his job and was disbarred. His mom is now a cashier at the local grocery store and the friend has to get a job so they can pay the mortgage. The lawyer dad here is my age. My mortgage has been paid off since around 2002. I'm sure he made big dollars when working. But he also spent big dollars. I make much smaller dollars but stuff them into investments since I have no debts.

There's also a lot of lawyers who do something outside of law. A good friend of ours started out as a lawyer for a cable company. He is now a producer for a porn company. :shock: He probably has pretty good savings. When we all went out to eat, he'd count out pennies so his share including tip was exact.
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:25 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:34 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am
My parents were convinced that if you were a doctor you wouldn't have any money problems and that's just not true.
:thumbsup

Absolutely. It comes from the mindset that income equals wealth, but that's just plain wrong on several levels.
And that pretty much sums up my parents. They had a very good income for many years but couldn't manage their money. Mom died with an upside down estate of $400k and Dad is on poverty-level Medicaid with $1,500 to his name. He's 82 and my husband I may wind up funding a couple of years of his nursing home care because of the long wait list for Medicaid facilities.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:01 pm

Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:25 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:34 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am
My parents were convinced that if you were a doctor you wouldn't have any money problems and that's just not true.
:thumbsup

Absolutely. It comes from the mindset that income equals wealth, but that's just plain wrong on several levels.
And that pretty much sums up my parents. They had a very good income for many years but couldn't manage their money. Mom died with an upside down estate of $400k and Dad is on poverty-level Medicaid with $1,500 to his name. He's 82 and my husband I may wind up funding a couple of years of his nursing home care because of the long wait list for Medicaid facilities.
Ouch.

Does he have any assets to speak of at this point?
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:31 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:01 pm
Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:25 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:34 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am
My parents were convinced that if you were a doctor you wouldn't have any money problems and that's just not true.
:thumbsup

Absolutely. It comes from the mindset that income equals wealth, but that's just plain wrong on several levels.
And that pretty much sums up my parents. They had a very good income for many years but couldn't manage their money. Mom died with an upside down estate of $400k and Dad is on poverty-level Medicaid with $1,500 to his name. He's 82 and my husband and I may wind up funding a couple of years of his nursing home care because of the long wait list for Medicaid facilities.
Ouch.

Does he have any assets to speak of at this point?
Nope. It's terrible thing to do to your kids. It would be different if they had been generous to their kids but they weren't. I'd be more resentful but at least I can afford it.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by SuperGrafx » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:45 pm

I agree that the first 2 books were interesting and inspiring.

I then made the mistake of picking up "The Millionaire Mind"...
What an absolute snorefest that one turned out to be. 500 pages of droning drivel and dull statistics.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by furikake » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:09 pm

I read The Millionaire Next Door when I was fresh out of college and I was determined to be a multi millionaire after reading that book. I'll be on the lookout for the new book, but since I'm cheap, I'll probably wait for it to be available at the library first. :D

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Rick Ferri » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:29 pm

Stanley’s original work from 20 years ago confirmed what I saw every day in my business. I advised thousands of investors over the years and learned early on that wealth accumulation is mostly a result of determination to save than a determination to reach a high income level.

I also learned that prudent personal money management is a mindset that some people have and others don’t. The ones that have it often do not have high incomes, and many are influenced by their parents or others who ran into big financial problems. These people are determined to live below thier means and never take money for granted. The ones who don’t have it spend all their money on possessions and things that appeared to increase their status. They also believed the money is just going to keep rolling in.
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by golfCaddy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:13 pm

SelfEmployed123 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:28 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am
tfb wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:39 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
Because there are 20 times more teachers to begin with (just an example, I'm not sure how many times more)? Just 6 times more in numbers doesn't cut it. deltaneutral83 was talking about the percentage of millionaires relative to their proportion in population. What % of lawyers or doctors are millionaires? What % of teachers are millionaires? Which is higher?
tfb,

Good question. I do not know the answer.

KlangFool
I have edited below to spell out the math.

This back and forth made me curious, so I did some research. Please bear with me :D The National Center for Education Statistics estimates there are 3.6 million teachers in the US. A 2016 census of licensed physicians (https://www.fsmb.org/globalassets/advoc ... census.pdf) estimates there are about 953,000 physicians in the US. As of 2016 there were about 1.3 million attorneys in the US (https://www.denniswpottslaw.com/united- ... rneys-map/). The research from Spectrum Group estimates there are 8.6 million households in the US worth $1 million or more. The survey says 12% are teachers, 2% are physicians, and 2% are attorneys. Using those numbers:

Teachers: 12% times 8.6 million = 984000 teacher millionaires / 3.6 million total teachers in USA = 27 percent

Doctors: 2% times 8.6 million = 164000 doctor millionaires / 953k total doctors in USA = 17 percent

Attorneys: 2% times 8.6 million = 164000 attorney millionaires / 1.3 million total attorneys in USA = 12.4 percent

Thus, about 27% of all teachers are in millionaire households. Meanwhile, 17 percent of physicians are in millionaire households while only 12 percent of attorneys are in millionaire households.

If my numbers are right, I think it's really interesting how much more likely teachers are to accumulate over $1 million than doctors and especially attorneys. Living within your means and saving is clearly very important. I suspect teachers are also more likely to have a dual income household.
It's worth point out:
Some 46% of the educators attribute their wealth to inheritance.
The study appears to lump K-12 teachers and college professors under the same category as educators.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by CurlyDave » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:36 am

...Some 46% of the educators attribute their wealth to inheritance...

I find it difficult to believe that a greater percentage of educators would inherit significant resources than either doctors or lawyers.

I could easily be convinced by the right data, but a priori there is no reason to assume that educators inherit more money.

Now it may be that educators are better at holding on to and growing what the do inherit.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by unclescrooge » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
There are also probably 6 times as many teachers as there are doctors!
:mrgreen:

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by jlawrence01 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:37 am

What is rarely mentioned when calculating the household net worth of teachers is the present value of the pension benefit AS WELL AS the present value of other post-retirement benefits (read that as medical and dental insurance after 30 years of service). I was looking at one Midwestern state's website and some of the estimates were in excell of a million based on the state's assumption of only THIRTEEN years of retirement.

There are very few defined benefit retirement plans in medicine.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by KlangFool » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:24 am

unclescrooge wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 am
deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 am
The assumption that doctors, lawyers et cetera are wealthy because of their professions and often aren't because of student debt, the delay into the workforce and the image they often feel they need to project was excellent. I knew this to be true at about age 19. I was putting myself through college by selling real estate. You learn early on those people with the fancy cars and designer clothes are often up to their eyeballs in debt! And you wonder how supposedly smart people can get themselves into so much financial trouble.

Also the economic out-patient was a helpful chapter for my friends who have children.
I still think lawyers and Dr's represent higher than their proportion of millionaires in America. They may do less with more, but they still are at that level in absolute terms relative to their proportions in the workforce I believe. Obviously small business owners that don't have to flaunt it make up the bigger portion. I believe that was 1996 so things may have changed, but I kind of doubt it with what I still see.
deltaneutral83,

https://www.aol.com/2012/03/26/surprisi ... naire-clu/

http://www.futurescopes.com/dating/weal ... llionaires

You are wrong. There are 6 times more teachers that are millionaires than either the lawyers or doctors.

KlangFool
There are also probably 6 times as many teachers as there are doctors!
:mrgreen:
Somebody had addressed that question a few posts ago. It is 4 times.

KlangFool

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by A440 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:50 am

Veteran teachers who are motivated to take advantage of all the side gig and moonlighting opportunities (coaching, test prep tutoring, teaching summer school, etc.) can pull in $80-100k in many states.

+1 It took 16 years of teaching for me to reach this level.

TMND was one of several books that helped me form a paradigm shift with regard to investing.
Along with the others, TMND helped us reach the two-comma club with just one earner for the last 16 years, even though the earner was a teacher.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by 6miths » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:59 am

Enjoyed these books and will be hoping the library gets it early and as an audiobook. ;)
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Cycle » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:16 am

I read millionaire next door in my early twenties, it really was a big contributor to me maxing out my retirement accounts.

I'm still working towards the inflation adjusted goal of 1MM in todays dollars (original book was 1996), which is 1.7MM in investable assets. Since my wife also works, that doubles that number, so really millionaire next door for our family is more like 3.5-4MM, which is our fire target.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:47 am

SelfEmployed123 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:41 am
Yes...teaching requires a 4 year degree only. Lawyers require 3 additional years of law school. Physicians require 4 years of medical school plus a minimum of 3 years of residency. The average student loan debt of lawyers leaving law school is about $84000. Average student loan debt of doctors is about $166,000. The average student loan debt of teachers with a master's degree is about $50,000. Fewer years in school plus less student loan debt really makes a big difference.
You just wiped out all of us teaching in higher education! :shock:

We will advocate - or beg - that you please don't exclude the nation's college professors (about 1.54 Million of us in the U.S.) who are included in the category of educators in the links above. If you include the TA's, the number is 1.7 Million in higher education in the U.S. in the category of educators. They had to endure 4 years for the undergraduate degree + 2 years Masters + 2+ years PhD = average total of over 10 years.

A PhD takes twice as long as a bachelor's degree to complete. The average student takes 8.2 years to slog through a PhD program and is 33 years old before earning that top diploma. By that age, most Americans with mere bachelor's degree are well into establishing themselves professionally.Jul 10, 2012
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/12-reasons ... get-a-phd/

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that the average salary of a University Professor was $75,430 annually as of May 2016. The lowest-paid 10 percent of all University Professors earn less than $38,290, while the highest-paid 10 percent are paid more than $168,270 per year.
https://www.careermatch.com/job-prep/ca ... ssor-make/

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by WageSlave » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:49 am

Regarding wealthy teachers: I wonder if there's a bias from people who started out in a non-educational field, made a lot of money, then switched to teaching. I sometimes flirt with the idea myself: I'm basically at a portfolio amount that's a little shy of actual FIRE, but if I had a job I enjoyed that simply paid the bills, the portfolio should grow to actual FIRE level on its own. For me, teaching is one such potential occupation that I think I might enjoy for Career 2.0. Though I have only a bachelor's degree, I'd like to think that plus my industry experience qualifies me to teach at a community college or IT vocational school. Point is, if I made such a shift, I'd be contributing to the wealthy teacher stats.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by LateStarter1975 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:00 am

Can't wait to read this book. Already on my reading list on amazon. However, I usually buy my books used so will have to wait a while....
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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:49 am

HongKonger wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:41 am
Ha ha - I guess that's the US version of the UK's "Fur coat and no knickers"
Can you say that in a mixed company? Can you say that on BH? What a great fantasy :-)

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by Carefreeap » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:29 am

CurlyDave wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:36 am
...Some 46% of the educators attribute their wealth to inheritance...

I find it difficult to believe that a greater percentage of educators would inherit significant resources than either doctors or lawyers.

I could easily be convinced by the right data, but a priori there is no reason to assume that educators inherit more money.

Now it may be that educators are better at holding on to and growing what the do inherit.
Or maybe more teachers are willing to admit they inherited money vs those who claim their wealth is due to their own efforts. :wink:

One other observation I'll make based on the teachers I know is that because they have lower salaries than other professionals they tend to think of themselves as "poor" and don't make those large purchases like fancier cars and houses that require higher salaries to service the debt. The American public can make themselves poor with the attitude "I deserve it and a bank will lend me the money so why not?".

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:39 am

WageSlave wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:49 am
Regarding wealthy teachers: I wonder if there's a bias from people who started out in a non-educational field, made a lot of money, then switched to teaching. I sometimes flirt with the idea myself: I'm basically at a portfolio amount that's a little shy of actual FIRE, but if I had a job I enjoyed that simply paid the bills, the portfolio should grow to actual FIRE level on its own. For me, teaching is one such potential occupation that I think I might enjoy for Career 2.0. Though I have only a bachelor's degree, I'd like to think that plus my industry experience qualifies me to teach at a community college or IT vocational school. Point is, if I made such a shift, I'd be contributing to the wealthy teacher stats.
Yes, certainly for part-time adjunct positions you could have a shot if you were a fit at a CC, or vocational school who might be looking for a class or two to be covered by somebody in the field with experience and met the minimum qualifications required for the position. Full-time positions are usually hired after a national search that goes through the usual process of a search committee, vetting, and interviewing process which would include candidates that meet the required qualifications listed in the job search announcement. I switched to teaching in my 40's after a two decade plus career in a professional performing Fine Arts career.

On a side note, a lot of educators have access to a state pension, voluntary 403b/457b programs, or 403b plans with employer match. Moving into the realm of higher education, there are grants, research, textbook authoring, writing, or in the case of Fine Arts Professors (paid performing/showing/selling of their craft) that can all add to or increase one's income. Depending on one's circumstances - and we see posts all the time here at BH of some sweet deals as well as some pretty unsweetened deals - there can be some nice opportunities to accumulate wealth. An example of a sweet one would be an educator with a job that includes a pension, also voluntary 403b/457b option(s), HSA, and also paying into and being able to receive SS. Many only get one or two of the lot, but some get all of those options. Combined with a working spouse/partner - be it also in education or outside of education - utilizing all of the employer plan options in tandem between the couple to get the best bang for the buck in savings and preparing for the future is why - I assume - that teachers rank as high as they do in the number of millionaires quoted above in this thread.

We are a dual income household in education that only were single income due to young children for a few years total over the years. Not sure how we would have done it as a single income household in education in the niche subject areas we are involved.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:45 am

Carefreeap wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:29 am
One other observation I'll make based on the teachers I know is that because they have lower salaries than other professionals they tend to think of themselves as "poor" and don't make those large purchases like fancier cars and houses that require higher salaries to service the debt. The American public can make themselves poor with the attitude "I deserve it and a bank will lend me the money so why not?".
Holds true for any profession - realistic expectations of income and living within or below one's means to accumulate wealth.

Housing, transportation, and food can kill any professional's ability to live within their means.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by texasdiver » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:03 pm

WageSlave wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:49 am
Regarding wealthy teachers: I wonder if there's a bias from people who started out in a non-educational field, made a lot of money, then switched to teaching. I sometimes flirt with the idea myself: I'm basically at a portfolio amount that's a little shy of actual FIRE, but if I had a job I enjoyed that simply paid the bills, the portfolio should grow to actual FIRE level on its own. For me, teaching is one such potential occupation that I think I might enjoy for Career 2.0. Though I have only a bachelor's degree, I'd like to think that plus my industry experience qualifies me to teach at a community college or IT vocational school. Point is, if I made such a shift, I'd be contributing to the wealthy teacher stats.
I have taught for 12 years in 2 states as a second career which I started at age 42. There are a few like me but I don’t think we affect the statistics.

My guess is that teaching is a majority female profession (especially at the lower grades) and that many many teachers are part of married households in which the male spouse is the primary earner. I knew many many teachers who were married to all kinds of higher paid professionals....executives, bank managers, regional managers of various businesses, doctors, lawyers, professors, administrators, etc, etc. I’m guessing that all the female teachers with higher paid spouses tend to distort the household income and wealth statistics for teachers. I think that would be a much more common scenario than wealthy individuals going into teaching as a second career.

This is obviously going to depend on the region. I think this holds true in upscale suburban areas where I taught. Not so much in rural areas where teachers are often the primary source of income in the family.
Last edited by texasdiver on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New book based on Millionaire Next Door

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:28 pm

CyclingDuo wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:39 am
On a side note, a lot of educators have access to a state pension, voluntary 403b/457b programs, or 403b plans with employer match. Moving into the realm of higher education, there are grants, research, textbook authoring, writing, or in the case of Fine Arts Professors (paid performing/showing/selling of their craft) that can all add to or increase one's income. Depending on one's circumstances - and we see posts all the time here at BH of some sweet deals as well as some pretty unsweetened deals - there can be some nice opportunities to accumulate wealth. An example of a sweet one would be an educator with a job that includes a pension, also voluntary 403b/457b option(s), HSA, and also paying into and being able to receive SS. Many only get one or two of the lot, but some get all of those options. Combined with a working spouse/partner - be it also in education or outside of education - utilizing all of the employer plan options in tandem between the couple to get the best bang for the buck in savings and preparing for the future is why - I assume - that teachers rank as high as they do in the number of millionaires quoted above in this thread.

We are a dual income household in education that only were single income due to young children for a few years total over the years. Not sure how we would have done it as a single income household in education in the niche subject areas we are involved.
I'd add that many universities now give faculty the irrevocable option when hired to either participate in the state's pension system or the university's 401a/403b defined contribution plan. It seems that few offer both a defined benefit and a defined contribution plan. It seems typical now as well for universities to mandate that if faculty choose the defined contribution plan that they are required to make contributions to it. At my current university, this is 7.5% of gross pay, which is matched by the university. Once I reach age 50, this will go up to 10% gross pay for both me and them. At a prior public university, I only had to put in 2.5% and they put in 13.5%!

These contributions are not elective, so we're still eligible to contribute $18.5k annually in our voluntary 401k. We also have a 457 plan, so that's another $18.5k of space. I elected to have a medical plan that offers an HSA, so we have a lot of tax-advantaged space there, in addition to IRAs.

So if these teachers are being required to save 15% or more of their gross income, they will surely become wealthy given enough time. Combine this with teachers not typically retiring very early, and you at least have the potential for a fairly well off group.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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