Early retirement

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livesoft
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Re: Early retirement

Post by livesoft » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am

See the early retirement forum:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f21/

and watch Early Retirees do social media with people like them. That's what they do all day.
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jharkin
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Re: Early retirement

Post by jharkin » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am

Tycoon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 am
gotester2000 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am
Spouse is trying to spend more so I may work more and compete with others and own more than others in her circle(and she can post more pictures on social media) - apparently that is success to her.
I feel for you. This is a systemic problem that grew with social media. Good luck overcoming that one.
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:

FireHorse
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Re: Early retirement

Post by FireHorse » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:57 am

About 10years ago, I met a guy at GYM who told me that he was thinking about retiring but family, relatives and friends all against this idea. The reason was you are only 55 yo and what are you going to do with your time? I asked him afew basic questions and he seems had everything thought through. I gave him a thumb up and said he should do it. I did retired at 55. (I still see him at GYM and checking in with him occasionally, he is a happy man)

Today I am at 52 yo, currently on sabbatical and will be retire in the fall. I haven't told family(parents/siblings) and relatives yet, but told a couple of my close friends, they are happy for me but betting on that I will be bored in 6month and will return to workforce. I have been walking in the neighborhood on a daily basis which I won't do while I was working, they are some birdie talks. Glad I don't know what they are saying, maybe I know but again who cares.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Early retirement

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:05 pm

jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am
Tycoon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 am
gotester2000 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am
Spouse is trying to spend more so I may work more and compete with others and own more than others in her circle(and she can post more pictures on social media) - apparently that is success to her.
I feel for you. This is a systemic problem that grew with social media. Good luck overcoming that one.
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:
Keeping up with the "Joneses" has existed since at least the end of WWII. Social media may make it easier to share things but it is not new for people to want to feel like they are doing just a little bit better than their family, friends and neighbors.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

FireHorse
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Re: Early retirement

Post by FireHorse » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:13 pm

All the early retirement threads ended up with an open question - how about health insurance?
It is true that health insurance is part of large expense planning for ER but the speculation of future cost given what is happening on the daily news will lead further unsettling.
MAY BE Bogleheads.org as an organization can provide group health insurance - just a thought.

livesoft
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Re: Early retirement

Post by livesoft » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:16 pm

Hockey10 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 pm
..., I would get responses such as:

- I don't have any $ saved for retirement
- I have so much debt that I will work until I die
- My first wife took all of my money, so I have no hope of retiring until I am 80
...
The above are typical "small-talk" responses. Even multi-millionaires have said those things to me. Folks with money often pretend to be less wealth off.

It's pretty easy to tell folks, "I'm unemployed."
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marcopolo
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Re: Early retirement

Post by marcopolo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:20 pm

gmc4h232 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:52 am
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:38 am
gmc4h232 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:24 am
Tycoon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 am
gotester2000 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am
Spouse is trying to spend more so I may work more and compete with others and own more than others in her circle(and she can post more pictures on social media) - apparently that is success to her.
I feel for you. This is a systemic problem that grew with social media. Good luck overcoming that one.
Wow. That’s sickening.
Not sure why this is surprising, IMO this is by far the most prevalent reason for most consumer purchases today. I have this talk with my wife on nearly a weekly basis, but she is very good at talking it out and ultimately realizing that the real reason she "just has to have" that consumer item is only because someone else just got it. When she sends me links to things she wants, it is almost instinct for me to immediately ask her which one of her friends just got one. I have never once been wrong in this assumption (I usually don't ask, she later offers the information up). I am so fortunate to be married to someone who is willing to discuss these things with me before making snap decisions and breaking out the credit card. Sometimes she ends up getting the item - for instance, the purchase of an expensive new mattress last year when our current one was perfectly fine (two friends and her sister had just gotten a new mattress which had a lot of internet hype...she now admits it was a wasteful purchase) - but at least we talk about it first.
I don’t think it’s surprising, just sickening
A little bit of both perhaps.
Everyone is different, but I can't recall the last purchase either my wife or I made because someone else we knew had bought something. Just does not even enter into our thinking when deciding what we want to purchase. Feel fortunate to be married to someone who does not need to have those kinds of discussions.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Early retirement

Post by CedarWaxWing » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:53 pm

AlwaysWannaLearn wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:11 pm
Thanks for posting, Skime; I'll be following this thread with interest. I'm about a year or so from retiring early, but I've read many many things here and elsewhere about others' reactions to an early retiree's decision. I've also experienced unexpected reactions from close friends and family as I've discussed my current thinking on my future plans. From these experiences, I've realized that I need to develop a "communication strategy", and have already started doing so.

Question for you: In order to help you, it might help others here to understand what you've experienced so far at a more concrete level. Descriptors like "socially awkward", "rude", "confused" and "bizarre" are obviously subjective. That is, you might legitimately find them so. (Not judging.) Others, though, might find them nothing of the sort. Can you give some specific examples of what you've experienced, and which label you're assigning to them?

BTW, I recall reading one blog post from an early retiree expressing his bewilderment that the more he told friends/family/acquaintances/business contacts that he'd retired, the more they kept sending him job opportunities for things he'd be perfect for, etc. He said it reminded him of when he and his wife were thinking about having kids, and all of his friends with kids kept telling him of how awesome parenting was, etc. After he and his wife had their first child and were dealing with the usual issues of sleep deprivation, juggling all the demands, etc., it was those VERY SAME friends who'd been encouraging him to have kids who were now b*tching endlessly about the parenting demands.... :happy
In regards to you early retirees... I simply admire you from afar. ;)

No judgements, but heck, it is fun to share methodologies in regards to many of life's challenges, retiring is not a small adjustment for many folks. Achieving that, especially early retirement, is a big deal for many people... and is hard for them to see how early retirement is even possible.

Their questions may in fact be a manifestation of amazement for you having achieved something that is not perceived as easy, or even possible for them.

WanderingDoc
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Re: Early retirement

Post by WanderingDoc » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Easy solution for your 45yo early retired friend. Move overseas. The mountains to climb, restaurants to try, classes to take, languages to learn, friends to make, lovers to take, etc. are endless and one would need 10 lifetimes to do it all! :D
jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:24 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:22 pm

Yep. Many people think that if someone else is significantly better off financially than they are, it had to be due to luck, greed, or a combination of the two. It's part of defending their self-concept (i.e. "I can do no wrong, so anything bad that happens to me must be outside of my control").
Agreed. Ive seen it as well, and it comes out in things like that comment thread on the NYT article discussed recently. A very high % of people only live for today and think about retirement around age 62, so they just cant comprehend how this is possible.

I suspect my colleagues in the McMansions think I live in a tiny 1400sq ft house because I didn't negotiate a good salary or something :mrgreen:


I *do* worry however that extreme early retirement can cause some social isolation because of how few peers would have similar free time. I have one friend who is just about 50 and retired at 45 that faces this - he is always asking the rest of our peer group to go to events, etc and the rest of us all have to work. But that peer group is interesting - I participate in a pretty niche, and expensive, hobby and my close group of friends tends to be highly educated people - I know a few PhDs, a couple guys with electrical backgrounds who work at semiconductor startups, one guy who does biomedical research at Harvard, another guy who is a quant analyst at a private equity management firm. I do software. There is an age spread among us of 40 to 60 years old. The retired guy was an IT manager at insurance companies and just got lucky investing.

Of the entire group, only myself and the quant guy really know anything about money (and he knows MUCH more than i do). The PhDs mostly jump form startup to startup - they live fancy lifestyles but mostly plan to/ need to work till they keel over at their desk. The IT guy got lucky... but he also chases risky investments like junk bonds and may end up back to work someday.

When I bring up the topic of retirement these guys look at me like I am from another planet... Best educations that money can buy but they cant figure out how stopping work before 65 is even possible.
Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate, and wait. | Rent where you live, buy where others pay your mortgage for you.

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willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am


I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.

It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).

But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
They can buy it today and pretty reasonable prices (i.e. <2k month). The question is going forward what the world is like. You think you worst case in 10-15 years is 2k/month. I think the worst case is more like 20k (i.e. you develop diabetes, preexisting conditions limits go away, you are forced to buy into the high risk pool, and medical costs keep going up 5-7%/year that they have done for the last 30 years). That is a huge range for planning purposes. We are talking another million or two in savings for a 50 year old.
$20k a month? In today's dollars? $240k a year just for healthcare? Quadruple the current median household income?

We'll become ex-pats long before that happens if we have any choice in the matter.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

2015
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Re: Early retirement

Post by 2015 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm

Does it matter? I'm sure some things have been said to me, but I don't really recall because their opinions are immaterial to me. I've never found any fun in caring what others think.

marcopolo
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Re: Early retirement

Post by marcopolo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:39 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am


I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.

It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).

But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
They can buy it today and pretty reasonable prices (i.e. <2k month). The question is going forward what the world is like. You think you worst case in 10-15 years is 2k/month. I think the worst case is more like 20k (i.e. you develop diabetes, preexisting conditions limits go away, you are forced to buy into the high risk pool, and medical costs keep going up 5-7%/year that they have done for the last 30 years). That is a huge range for planning purposes. We are talking another million or two in savings for a 50 year old.
$20k a month? In today's dollars? $240k a year just for healthcare? Quadruple the current median household income?

We'll become ex-pats long before that happens if we have any choice in the matter.
I love this forum. But, the fears that sometimes get conjured up to scare people about retiring early are a bit over the top.

Also, the math does not add up. If one needs 20k/month at age 50, an extra million or two is not going to cut it, not even close. Plus all those extra medical expenses does not go away at Medicare age, plus Medicare could go away.

So, you better wait until you have an extra 20 or 30 million, just to be safe.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Early retirement

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm

2015 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm
Does it matter? I'm sure some things have been said to me, but I don't really recall because their opinions are immaterial to me. I've never found any fun in caring what others think.
It matters to me in a contrarian way. I enjoy doing the opposite of what everyone else tells me to do, or not to do. In all my life-changing decisions I ended up being right and my critics wrong. The decision to retire was one of such decisions.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:09 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:39 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am


I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.

It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).

But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
They can buy it today and pretty reasonable prices (i.e. <2k month). The question is going forward what the world is like. You think you worst case in 10-15 years is 2k/month. I think the worst case is more like 20k (i.e. you develop diabetes, preexisting conditions limits go away, you are forced to buy into the high risk pool, and medical costs keep going up 5-7%/year that they have done for the last 30 years). That is a huge range for planning purposes. We are talking another million or two in savings for a 50 year old.
$20k a month? In today's dollars? $240k a year just for healthcare? Quadruple the current median household income?

We'll become ex-pats long before that happens if we have any choice in the matter.
I love this forum. But, the fears that sometimes get conjured up to scare people about retiring early are a bit over the top.

Also, the math does not add up. If one needs 20k/month at age 50, an extra million or two is not going to cut it, not even close. Plus all those extra medical expenses does not go away at Medicare age, plus Medicare could go away.

So, you better wait until you have an extra 20 or 30 million, just to be safe.
Sectors of the economy that have increased faster than inflation tend to scare people, especially when they are viewed as necessities. Two of the most prominent of these currently are medical and college expenses. But there are several factors that limit how much can be spent on anything. It's mathematically possible that healthcare expenses will rise from the current 18.2% of GDP to 75%, but is the possibility of that occurring worth trying to plan for?
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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1210sda
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Re: Early retirement

Post by 1210sda » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:43 pm

I retired the first time at age 49 from Megacorp. I remember two experiences in particular. First, my young son was telling his friend's mother that I had retired early. She looked at me with a wink and told my son...of course he did. She assumed that I had been laid off, but she would keep my secret. The other one....anytime my wife and I went shopping at the mall in the middle of the week (in the middle of the day), I would feel uncomfortable. It was mostly older folks and me (us). I wondered what they thought of me. My wife finally convinced me that nobody notices and besides, nobody cares.

1210

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Will do good
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Re: Early retirement

Post by Will do good » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm

My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.

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friar1610
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Re: Early retirement

Post by friar1610 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:37 pm

WanderingDoc wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:56 pm
50-55 is considered early now?

Military enlisted can retire with pension at 37, officers with pension at 40. I would consider early retirement 35-40 tops, since there are a lot of entrepreneurs, real estate investors, and online business owners that do it at 25-26. I mean, they do it but of course they go travel or develop other products.
You've basically got it right although:
- I think most enlisted folks graduate HS at 18 so probably more like 38 to retire. (From what I understand, it's almost impossible to enlist these days w/o a HS diploma).
- Similarly, most officers have a minimum of a bachelors degree, so probably more like 42 to retire on 20.

But your point is well taken...I retired at 58 after 28+ years military plus a shortish civilian "career". Most people knew I was retired Navy, so that obviated the need for any explanations about how I could afford it, health care, etc.
Friar1610

flyingaway
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Re: Early retirement

Post by flyingaway » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Will do good wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm
My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.
This is my point. Who really care about you retired early or not?
Probably you yourself fell so special that you think too much about other people's routine questions.

SQRT
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Re: Early retirement

Post by SQRT » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:55 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm
Will do good wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm
My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.
This is my point. Who really care about you retired early or not?
Probably you yourself fell so special that you think too much about other people's routine questions.
This is my view. Who cares. I retired at 56 and got no negative comments. I have no idea what others are thinking. Or even if they are thinking at all.

basspond
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Re: Early retirement

Post by basspond » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:59 pm

The most interesting conversations I have heard or hear of someone else having is someone not understanding why we retired early yet they had a close relative that died at a younger age then when we retired.

megabad
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Re: Early retirement

Post by megabad » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:04 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:14 pm
My response, "I'm starting a new job as a multi-million dollar retirement asset manager".
I like this. I have advised a close friend that saying "I'm taking a break right now" draws sympathy more than jealously so I would use it instead of saying retired. No reason for anyone to know that the break is permanent.

AlwaysWannaLearn
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Re: Early retirement

Post by AlwaysWannaLearn » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:25 pm

.....
Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

feh
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Re: Early retirement

Post by feh » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:28 pm

skime wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:51 pm
I retired early. I've had some very interesting interactions with people when they find out I've done so. Some are socially awkward, some rude, some confused and other bizarre reactions.

Has anyone else experienced what I have?
I switched to part time 2 years ago, at age 50. I could retire fully if I desired.

The immediate reaction from most people is surprise. The secondary reaction is usually one of either confusion, cheer or hostility. One of my better friends was judgmental; felt that anybody who retires before FRA is some kind of a slacker.

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Re: Early retirement

Post by skime » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:43 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm
Will do good wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm
My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.
This is my point. Who really care about you retired early or not?
Probably you yourself fell so special that you think too much about other people's routine questions.
I actually never gave a thought to what others would think if I retired early. I never discussed it with anyone other than my wife. It wasn't until I was actually retired that the topic would come up in conversation with others. It would usually start by people asking me how work was going.

If someone told me they retired early, I'd be happy for them. If that's what they chose, it's not my job to second guess them. I just never anticipated people would have opinions (good or bad) about my decision. That's why I asked in my original post.

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Re: Early retirement

Post by TheOscarGuy » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:49 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am

I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.

It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).

But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
The healthcare costs for early retirees (I am assuming they will buy into ACA) hasn't and likely wont keep up with inflation, unlike with utilities (which sometimes are government imposed monopoly that cant increase prices beyond a certain limit), groceries etc. Yes, there is medical tourism, and other options you have mentioned. I contest (with no actual proof :D ) that that portion of population using alternative healthcare avenues may not be more than a few percentage points. Additionally, with the changing political climate, I think it is fair to ask someone who is an early retiree "what about healthcare"?.

Yes it just takes money, but it is hard to predict with any certainty how much in the future. :happy

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gasdoc
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Re: Early retirement

Post by gasdoc » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 pm

I am not yet retired, but when I tell people that I plan to retire early, and they are surprised and ask questions, I just say "anyone can retire early- you just have to make do with what you have."

gasdoc

visualguy
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Re: Early retirement

Post by visualguy » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:56 pm

megabad wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:04 pm
I have advised a close friend that saying "I'm taking a break right now" draws sympathy more than jealously so I would use it instead of saying retired. No reason for anyone to know that the break is permanent.
Sometimes it really isn't permanent - I retired early, but later decided to go back to work.

By the way, I never encountered jealousy when I told people I was retired. Friends and family didn't view it as a positive thing, so no jealousy...

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willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:01 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:49 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am

I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.

It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).

But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
The healthcare costs for early retirees (I am assuming they will buy into ACA) hasn't and likely wont keep up with inflation, unlike with utilities (which sometimes are government imposed monopoly that cant increase prices beyond a certain limit), groceries etc. Yes, there is medical tourism, and other options you have mentioned. I contest (with no actual proof :D ) that that portion of population using alternative healthcare avenues may not be more than a few percentage points. Additionally, with the changing political climate, I think it is fair to ask someone who is an early retiree "what about healthcare"?.

Yes it just takes money, but it is hard to predict with any certainty how much in the future. :happy
It's certainly a fair question. It's just interesting to me that that category of spending comes up more often than all others combined when I've had similar conversations to the OP's with people. I really do think that many people just think that paying for healthcare on your own, directly or indirectly, is nearly impossible these days.

"Don't be downhearted, I can fix it for you, sonny. It won't take too long; it'll just take money."
-Alan Jackson

Remember that people retiring due to them being financially independent (e.g. not on disability) prior to age 60 only represent "a few percentage points" as well these days. One exception to this right now are those receiving pensions, usually government, after 20-25 years of service and able to live on just that, but it remains to be seen how long even that will continue. The USPS pension isn't too healthy these days.

One advantage that FIRE folks have over others with regard to healthcare is time, time to spend looking for ways to minimize healthcare costs.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

lostdog
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Re: Early retirement

Post by lostdog » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:13 pm

jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am
Tycoon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 am
gotester2000 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am
Spouse is trying to spend more so I may work more and compete with others and own more than others in her circle(and she can post more pictures on social media) - apparently that is success to her.
I feel for you. This is a systemic problem that grew with social media. Good luck overcoming that one.
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:
HGTV addiction is a real thing. HGTVifictation.

DetroitRick
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Re: Early retirement

Post by DetroitRick » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:19 pm

Oh yeah, absolutely. Retired at 50, and got these types of reactions fairly consistently until I crossed 60, 2 years ago. But almost universally from older people and almost never from younger people or people my own age. Rude mostly. But I can be ruder, so I eventually starting shutting it down quicker and that stopped it.

The other problem I encountered somewhat often for a while, again only with older folks, was people (neighbors mainly) interpreting the idea that I was retired to mean I was a free source of labor, errands, and 24-hr computer assistance. I had to learn to say no quicker, specifically when people got rude or demanding (demanding of free labor, now that still cracks me up). These were people that were not close friends or relatives, and I found that to be the bizarre aspect. But that vast majority of people either didn't care one way or the other, or were politely interested in how I was able to retire. So, not a huge problem, just a petty annoyance for me.

gmc4h232
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Re: Early retirement

Post by gmc4h232 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:31 pm

lostdog wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:13 pm
jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am
Tycoon wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:54 am
gotester2000 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am
Spouse is trying to spend more so I may work more and compete with others and own more than others in her circle(and she can post more pictures on social media) - apparently that is success to her.
I feel for you. This is a systemic problem that grew with social media. Good luck overcoming that one.
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:
HGTV addiction is a real thing. HGTVifictation.
My mother-in-law has this.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Early retirement

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:01 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm
Will do good wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm
My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.
This is my point. Who really care about you retired early or not?
Probably you yourself fell so special that you think too much about other people's routine questions.
The only conversations I have with people regarding retirement are about how to fill 12 months a year free time. I assume almost everyone in my social circle will be capable of retiring in their 50s if they choose, and assume they think the same is true for me.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

bhsince87
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Re: Early retirement

Post by bhsince87 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:23 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:01 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:45 pm
Will do good wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 pm
My friends were mostly happy for me to retired early. I don't think most people care about what the other people are doing, they are too busy with their own life.
This is my point. Who really care about you retired early or not?
Probably you yourself fell so special that you think too much about other people's routine questions.
The only conversations I have with people regarding retirement are about how to fill 12 months a year free time. I assume almost everyone in my social circle will be capable of retiring in their 50s if they choose, and assume they think the same is true for me.
Pretty much the same with me. But when I retire, I expect to be in a different circle a lot more often.
Retirement: When you reach a point where you have enough. Or when you've had enough.

DesertDiva
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Re: Early retirement

Post by DesertDiva » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm

skime wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:58 pm
I'm 48
I met a couple younger than you who retired early. Their pre-rehearsed response is "we have special circumstances" which tends to shut down further questions.
♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ - Second verse same as the first

gd
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Re: Early retirement

Post by gd » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:16 am

Hadn't thought about this for a while. It was around the various high-tech crashes, so most assumed I was forced-unemployed and avoided the subject. I had a hobby job, they probably thought that was just the best I could do. The few deeper inquiries were quickly squelched by talking about the cumulative effects of LBYM, driving beater cars, bringing PB&J sandwiches from home for lunch, and the like. Nobody wants to hear that stuff.

MnD
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Re: Early retirement

Post by MnD » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:33 am

I gave my notice a month ago for my retirement later this year and among friends and most co-workers its been general and positive feedback - most said they were jealous and they wished they could do that. One weird response from a guy on my team. He initially didn't believe me. Then was convinced I was just jumping over to the private sector for a full time job in order to double-dip. Then asked all these questions about what I was going to do everyday along with a lot of "advice" about how you need this big structured plan to retire and basically need a structured "job" to wake up to every day in order to be happily retired. He's the most unhappy guy I know at and away from work - he even manages to make his vacations into unhappy events usually. So it was especially odd he had all this advice about how to retire properly. :mrgreen:
Last edited by MnD on Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

student
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Re: Early retirement

Post by student » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:36 am

jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:
Wow. I vaguely remember someone mention something like this in an another thread long time ago. I also like to watch HGTV but it is only for fantasy as I am too cheap/can't afford for nice things that appear on the show.

student
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Re: Early retirement

Post by student » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:39 am

DesertDiva wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm
skime wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:58 pm
I'm 48
I met a couple younger than you who retired early. Their pre-rehearsed response is "we have special circumstances" which tends to shut down further questions.
Wow. That's a good sentence. Yes. This convey private information and polite people will know to stop.

MikeG62
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Location: New Jersey

Re: Early retirement

Post by MikeG62 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:57 am

DesertDiva wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm
skime wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:58 pm
I'm 48
I met a couple younger than you who retired early. Their pre-rehearsed response is "we have special circumstances" which tends to shut down further questions.
Wouldn't it just be better to tell the truth - I/we lived well below our means, saved diligently and invested wisely and now we can afford to do what we want, without needing income from a job to sustain our lifestyle. Life is truly good.

Making up some story is likely to have people wondering what the truth really is, and probably drawing some incorrect conclusion. Perhaps they will assume you were fired, have been unable to find a job and you are really just between jobs, but don't want to people to know that. Maybe they will think you came into some large inheritance or had some other good fortune which put you in this envious position. Or perhaps they will think you were really a trust fund baby who finally got access to some huge pile of money. In both of the latter cases, you did nothing to "earn" to be in the position you are in.

Since most people are not BH-like (they spend "up to" the level of their means while working) it is hard for them to envision how you might be able to afford to retire early. Thinking it is because you LBYM, saving and investing wisely is not the natural conclusion they might draw. Making up some weird explanation only runs the risk of coming across like you have "something to hide". Not sure what reason there is for that, when there is a simple answer to the question - and one that will likely cause most people asking to realize they have been doing it wrong for a long time.
Last edited by MikeG62 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jharkin
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Re: Early retirement

Post by jharkin » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:09 am

student wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:36 am
jharkin wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:55 am
Its not just social media. HGTV is the bane of my existence... every time Joanna Gaines does a reno my wife comes up with a new project for me that we "just have to have" :oops:
Wow. I vaguely remember someone mention something like this in an another thread long time ago. I also like to watch HGTV but it is only for fantasy as I am too cheap/can't afford for nice things that appear on the show.

Just wait... when your couch sprouts new throw pillows annually - you will know your household is infected.

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ofcmetz
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Re: Early retirement

Post by ofcmetz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:15 am

I'll be able to leave next year at the age of 40 from my police job if I choose. I won't have to work, but may go back to college and am considering other careers. My police humor is going to cause me to have a lot of fun with the question "what do you do for a living". I will say everything from, "managing a family office", "living off the government", "professional gambler", "film star", "video game player", and maybe a lot of other responses. It will depend on the circumstance, but I like to watch peoples reactions so it's something that will be fun. Of course I'll eventually just say I retired on a pension.
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.

Dottie57
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Re: Early retirement

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:56 am

WanderingDoc wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:41 pm
I am entitled to my opinion, just as you yours. 55 is up there ... means you've been working for almost 40 years. I started my first job at 16. Its not only military. State and government workers can do the same. So can those who focus on investments which produce cash flow. On this forum, 55 may be considered early. On Mr. Money Mushtache forum (whose philosophy I don't agree with at all) people are retiring at 30-35, no big deal.

EddyB wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:27 pm
WanderingDoc wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:56 pm
50-55 is considered early now?

Military enlisted can retire with pension at 37, officers with pension at 40. I would consider early retirement 35-40 tops, since there are a lot of entrepreneurs, real estate investors, and online business owners that do it at 25-26. I mean, they do it but of course they go travel or develop other products.
I know you’re committed to your schtick, but the average retirement age in the US is 63, so even 55 is probably cutting the working years short by abiut a fifth, and retiring at 50 is closing in on cutting working years short by a third. Seems pretty significant. And of course, that people “retire” from the military and may qualify for pensions after 20 years doesn’t say anything at all about how many “retire” from working generally.

https://www.thebalance.com/average-reti ... es-2388864

Do you say that 6’6” isn’t tall, since there are at least a few NBA players who are 7’3”?
State workers wher I live usually have to meet the rule of 90 ( age plus nbr yrs working for the state) in order to get full pension.

2015
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Re: Early retirement

Post by 2015 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm
2015 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm
Does it matter? I'm sure some things have been said to me, but I don't really recall because their opinions are immaterial to me. I've never found any fun in caring what others think.
It matters to me in a contrarian way. I enjoy doing the opposite of what everyone else tells me to do, or not to do. In all my life-changing decisions I ended up being right and my critics wrong. The decision to retire was one of such decisions.

Victoria
I can just hear it, "She's so obstinate!" :D But isn't it fun being wrong sometimes and still not caring what people think?

I like the whole idea of setting up systems instead of goals. Evolution is such that we can only thrive in particular settings, given our background, personality, personal history, etc. It's a mistake or at a minimum a huge opportunity cost to place ourselves in anything but those particular settings as much as possible. This is why I personally eschew any system involving excessive complexity, because history has shown where there is complexity there is a propensity for fraud, distortion, and human error.

As part of my ongoing mental software update project, I've started setting up only systems now where I can thrive. Caring about others' opinions (other than contributing feedback) is not part of any of those systems.

skime
Posts: 63
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Re: Early retirement

Post by skime » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:24 pm

2015 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm
2015 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm
Does it matter? I'm sure some things have been said to me, but I don't really recall because their opinions are immaterial to me. I've never found any fun in caring what others think.
It matters to me in a contrarian way. I enjoy doing the opposite of what everyone else tells me to do, or not to do. In all my life-changing decisions I ended up being right and my critics wrong. The decision to retire was one of such decisions.

Victoria
I can just hear it, "She's so obstinate!" :D But isn't it fun being wrong sometimes and still not caring what people think?

I like the whole idea of setting up systems instead of goals. Evolution is such that we can only thrive in particular settings, given our background, personality, personal history, etc. It's a mistake or at a minimum a huge opportunity cost to place ourselves in anything but those particular settings as much as possible. This is why I personally eschew any system involving excessive complexity, because history has shown where there is complexity there is a propensity for fraud, distortion, and human error.

As part of my ongoing mental software update project, I've started setting up only systems now where I can thrive. Caring about others' opinions (other than contributing feedback) is not part of any of those systems.
That's a very interesting concept - systems. You're dead on a about complexity.

larsm
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Re: Early retirement

Post by larsm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:14 pm
My response, "I'm starting a new job as a multi-million dollar retirement asset manager".
Nah. Professional newspaper reader. Pay sucks but the hours are great.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Early retirement

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:42 am

2015 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm
2015 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm
Does it matter? I'm sure some things have been said to me, but I don't really recall because their opinions are immaterial to me. I've never found any fun in caring what others think.
It matters to me in a contrarian way. I enjoy doing the opposite of what everyone else tells me to do, or not to do. In all my life-changing decisions I ended up being right and my critics wrong. The decision to retire was one of such decisions.

Victoria
I can just hear it, "She's so obstinate!" :D But isn't it fun being wrong sometimes and still not caring what people think?
In the three specific life-changing decisions that I am referring here to, I did the opposite of what the people close to me insisted upon. These turned out to be the best decisions in my life. They have also strengthened my confidence in my ability to go against well-meaning advice.

I also had, and will have, my share of wrong decisions. I think, I will always pay (some) attention to what (some) other people think. But I do, indeed, have fun owning my final decisions. I must distinguish here the two stages:
1) The process of making a decision, when I may ask for inputs from people whose opinions on that specific matter I trust; and when I may get unsolicited advice from people whose opinions I distrust.
2) The rest of my life after the decision has been made.

After an important decision has been made, I own it.


2015 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm
I like the whole idea of setting up systems instead of goals. Evolution is such that we can only thrive in particular settings, given our background, personality, personal history, etc. It's a mistake or at a minimum a huge opportunity cost to place ourselves in anything but those particular settings as much as possible. This is why I personally eschew any system involving excessive complexity, because history has shown where there is complexity there is a propensity for fraud, distortion, and human error.

As part of my ongoing mental software update project, I've started setting up only systems now where I can thrive. Caring about others' opinions (other than contributing feedback) is not part of any of those systems.

You are making two good points here:
1) focusing on systems instead of goals
2) aiming to live as close as possible to the environment in which we have evolved.

Both are difficult. Goals help us to stay focused, and achieving goals gives us a level of internal pride and external respect. I am aware that the point about external respect contradicts the earlier discussion about not caring what other people think. But that's why it's complicated. For example, yesterday, I was invited to a dinner where I've met a dozen new people. All of them were in their 30s and 40s, still working, and in the Washington custom interested in what you do. I admit that I wanted to fit in. With a person working for the USPTO I discussed my old patent application that is still pending. To another person, I described what it is like to walk el Camino de Santiago. To a group of people discussing important books, I promoted "The Black Swan" and recommended The Farnam Street blog and podcasts (thanks again, 2015, for that).

Some aspects of the environment we have evolved in are easier to aim for than others. For example, I am trying paleo diet and intermittent fasting, with mixed success. But I would not want to limit my social circle to a few dozen people or stop reading.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

DesertDiva
Posts: 171
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Re: Early retirement

Post by DesertDiva » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:14 am

MikeG62 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:57 am
DesertDiva wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:27 pm
skime wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:58 pm
I'm 48
I met a couple younger than you who retired early. Their pre-rehearsed response is "we have special circumstances" which tends to shut down further questions.
Wouldn't it just be better to tell the truth - I/we lived well below our means, saved diligently and invested wisely and now we can afford to do what we want, without needing income from a job to sustain our lifestyle. Life is truly good.

Making up some story is likely to have people wondering what the truth really is, and probably drawing some incorrect conclusion. Perhaps they will assume you were fired, have been unable to find a job and you are really just between jobs, but don't want to people to know that. Maybe they will think you came into some large inheritance or had some other good fortune which put you in this envious position. Or perhaps they will think you were really a trust fund baby who finally got access to some huge pile of money. In both of the latter cases, you did nothing to "earn" to be in the position you are in.

Since most people are not BH-like (they spend "up to" the level of their means while working) it is hard for them to envision how you might be able to afford to retire early. Thinking it is because you LBYM, saving and investing wisely is not the natural conclusion they might draw. Making up some weird explanation only runs the risk of coming across like you have "something to hide". Not sure what reason there is for that, when there is a simple answer to the question - and one that will likely cause most people asking to realize they have been doing it wrong for a long time.
I merely offered this response as an alternative for responding to the inevitable question that early retirees face. I concluded that this couple value their privacy and they don't want/need others to understand the details. Perhaps they were recipients of a trust fund, and if that's the case, I'm happy for them. Perhaps they earned it on their own. Regardless of the circumstances, I admired what they were doing with their lives and respect that they have the right to keep their personal business to themselves.
♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ - Second verse same as the first

btenny
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Re: Early retirement

Post by btenny » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:04 pm

I retired early at 52 and experienced a lot of this negative feedback from others. It bothered me at first as I did not understand it but was too busy to discuss it at the time. I also got a good deal of advice saying I could not afford to retire or telling me I had to work somewhere. Again most of those advice givers did not know my lifestyle well or really know LBYM and other ways to save money to retire early.

But when I tried to tell them the real story of LBYM and good investing their eyes glazed over. So I then just said "I got lucky" and that cut off some conversations but did not stop the curiosity. So after a while and more stories I settled on "I got a golden parachute" story which is partly true. The truth was I did got paid to take a early out from my company. But I also had saved and invested for decades. So mostly I just tell people the parachute answer and that satisfies the issues.

And now that I am 70+ no one cares or asks because old guys are expected to be retired.

I also solved the peers working to much to play by moving to a ski town. Here most everyone lives to play and mostly talks about skiing and boating and fun stuff. Very few care what your career was about.

Good Luck.

2015
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Early retirement

Post by 2015 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:48 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:42 am
2015 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm
2015 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:33 pm
I can just hear it, "She's so obstinate!" :D But isn't it fun being wrong sometimes and still not caring what people think?
In the three specific life-changing decisions that I am referring here to, I did the opposite of what the people close to me insisted upon. These turned out to be the best decisions in my life. They have also strengthened my confidence in my ability to go against well-meaning advice.

Excellent. These are the decisions you can be the most proud of as well!

I also had, and will have, my share of wrong decisions. I think, I will always pay (some) attention to what (some) other people think. But I do, indeed, have fun owning my final decisions. I must distinguish here the two stages:
1) The process of making a decision, when I may ask for inputs from people whose opinions on that specific matter I trust; and when I may get unsolicited advice from people whose opinions I distrust.
2) The rest of my life after the decision has been made.

After an important decision has been made, I own it.

I am strongly influence by Brian Tracy's views on the subject of failure (there is none, only feedback). As long as we learn something, failure is always good (as long as we get back up), and so-called wrong decisions always contain seeds of benefit.
I really like your openness to feedback in your decision-making process.

2015 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:51 pm
I like the whole idea of setting up systems instead of goals. Evolution is such that we can only thrive in particular settings, given our background, personality, personal history, etc. It's a mistake or at a minimum a huge opportunity cost to place ourselves in anything but those particular settings as much as possible. This is why I personally eschew any system involving excessive complexity, because history has shown where there is complexity there is a propensity for fraud, distortion, and human error.

As part of my ongoing mental software update project, I've started setting up only systems now where I can thrive. Caring about others' opinions (other than contributing feedback) is not part of any of those systems.

You are making two good points here:
1) focusing on systems instead of goals
2) aiming to live as close as possible to the environment in which we have evolved.

Both are difficult. Goals help us to stay focused, and achieving goals gives us a level of internal pride and external respect. I am aware that the point about external respect contradicts the earlier discussion about not caring what other people think. But that's why it's complicated. For example, yesterday, I was invited to a dinner where I've met a dozen new people. All of them were in their 30s and 40s, still working, and in the Washington custom interested in what you do. I admit that I wanted to fit in. With a person working for the USPTO I discussed my old patent application that is still pending. To another person, I described what it is like to walk el Camino de Santiago. To a group of people discussing important books, I promoted "The Black Swan" and recommended The Farnam Street blog and podcasts (thanks again, 2015, for that).

I have such a difficult time with this because I don't want to be misunderstood. However, I no longer have any desire to self-categorize into any group (i.e., "fit in"),as I see profound limitations on possibility, experience, and creation in doing so. My thinking is deeply impacted by somewhat recent reading on how we sublimate the self (and therefore possibility) in having any desire to self-categorize into a group(s). Difficult to do? Absolutely. Possible to free ourselves from the automatic and unconscious desire to self-categorization? Yes.

Some aspects of the environment we have evolved in are easier to aim for than others. For example, I am trying paleo diet and intermittent fasting, with mixed success. But I would not want to limit my social circle to a few dozen people or stop reading.

Again I have a difficult time responding, as I personally have no issue meeting people. This is because I have (finally) accepted the fact over the course of my life people always show up who I informally and spontaneously coach in some way (it just happened again this week). It's taken a lifetime for me to learn that once we finally accept ourselves, with all of our failures, warts, and humanity, people who are meant to be there in a win/win context for us will simply materialize.

To make this actionable to OP, it might be a good idea to ask what is my possibility for this new phase of my life (retirement), versus focusing attention on the opinions of others. Our environment doesn't lie. It's a mirror reflection of who we are, and we attract on the outside what we are on the inside. IOW, beware your inputs as they invariably become your outputs.


Victoria

Mjar
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Early retirement

Post by Mjar » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:38 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:22 pm
Tycoon wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:14 pm
My response, "I'm starting a new job as a multi-million dollar retirement asset manager".
:sharebeer I love it!
I agree with Hockey10 and WillThrill81. Whatever comment or question they have respond with what WillThrill81 said about being a asset manager or tell them you did really well with your investments and it has allowed you enjoy life followed up with its none of their business.

I am aiming for 52 and I am expecting what you are experiencing. When I am discussing retirement with people I say I am targeting 55 and they are like that's too early or must be nice or you don't have to worry about X, or anything else to make themselves feel better about their lack of savings/investing.

We all know people like this that you are encountering.

Sounds like you have a lot negative or jealous people around you that are not as savvy as you are. Congrats and enjoy.

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