Early retirement
Re: Early retirement
The only negative reactions (vocal or nonvocal) came from a few hourly workers in retail establishments. They were used to seeing me in my work attire, and then I started coming in looking a bit disheveled. I think that if one is dissatisfied with their lives, it is hard for them to say "great" when they find out you are retired.
I think I need to say that I am a "Coffee Taster." Or, maybe "Golf Ball Washer."
I think I need to say that I am a "Coffee Taster." Or, maybe "Golf Ball Washer."
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Re: Early retirement
I would say "great" if someone around me were retiring. A job is vacated and an opportunity occurs.Cruise wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:15 pm The only negative reactions (vocal or nonvocal) came from a few hourly workers in retail establishments. They were used to seeing me in my work attire, and then I started coming in looking a bit disheveled. I think that if one is dissatisfied with their lives, it is hard for them to say "great" when they find out you are retired.
I think I need to say that I am a "Coffee Taster." Or, maybe "Golf Ball Washer."
Re: Early retirement
My responses are always truthful as to how I accomplished my goals. It's easy for me to tell the truth because I have tremendous gratitude for the trajectory that my life has taken. It could have turned out much differently for a number of reasons. For some reason it didn't. I'm grateful for that.Mjar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:38 pmI agree with Hockey10 and WillThrill81. Whatever comment or question they have respond with what WillThrill81 said about being a asset manager or tell them you did really well with your investments and it has allowed you enjoy life followed up with its none of their business.
I am aiming for 52 and I am expecting what you are experiencing. When I am discussing retirement with people I say I am targeting 55 and they are like that's too early or must be nice or you don't have to worry about X, or anything else to make themselves feel better about their lack of savings/investing.
We all know people like this that you are encountering.
Sounds like you have a lot negative or jealous people around you that are not as savvy as you are. Congrats and enjoy.
Re: Early retirement
That is awesome.skime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:00 am
My responses are always truthful as to how I accomplished my goals. It's easy for me to tell the truth because I have tremendous gratitude for the trajectory that my life has taken. It could have turned out much differently for a number of reasons. For some reason it didn't. I'm grateful for that.
Re: Early retirement
I retired 3 years ago at 57, my wife 2 years ago at 56. No one really asks how we did it, I would be happy to explain it if asked. My sister in law is confused when we tell her we haven't turned on my pension yet (at age 62.5 I can get it without any reduction penalty). She doesn't know how we do it. We saved and were frugal (basic bogelhead stuff). Medical Insurance is obscene. We get it through my wife's former employer, but at 19K a year.
Marty....don't go to the year 2020....Dr. Emmett Brown
Re: Early retirement
That's funny and very believable. When I retired from Megacorp, I only informed my boss and HR rep. I told my boss that I didn't plan to "announce" anything and that I would leave it up to him to let anybody know who he felt needed to know. Worked great. I PM'd or sent an email to my handful of true friends the morning I left and stopped by to chat with a few on the way out the door. Not only was it from having observed the "interrogations" of other pending retirees by people asking a bunch of stuff that was none of their business. It was also having observed over the decades how nauseating it can be when a person spends months bragging to everybody who will listen about how they're going to "finally get out of this place." I just took the money and drove away....Hockey10 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 pm Most people would congratulate me, while others would initiate an interrogation worthy of the KGB in the peak of the Cold War. I gave 2.5 months notice at work, and I got so tired of having to explain myself to others on a daily basis, that I eventually stopped telling anyone that did not know yet.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Early retirement
I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
3 core funds. Don't just do something, stand there.
Re: Early retirement
The KGB was very patient. At the age of 81, when you start thinking that you are out of the danger zone of early retirement, they will pounce on you from behind the DMZ.Hockey10 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 pm Most people would congratulate me, while others would initiate an interrogation worthy of the KGB in the peak of the Cold War. I gave 2.5 months notice at work, and I got so tired of having to explain myself to others on a daily basis, that I eventually stopped telling anyone that did not know yet.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Re: Early retirement
To clarify my point, I am not interested in making as many friends as possible. But I do want to socialize with intelligent stimulating people. The larger the pool where I can find people I may potentially like, the more choice I have. In the stone age, my pool of potential intelligent stimulating people was rather small. Today it's bigger.2015 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:48 pmAgain I have a difficult time responding, as I personally have no issue meeting people. This is because I have (finally) accepted the fact over the course of my life people always show up who I informally and spontaneously coach in some way (it just happened again this week). It's taken a lifetime for me to learn that once we finally accept ourselves, with all of our failures, warts, and humanity, people who are meant to be there in a win/win context for us will simply materialize.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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Re: Early retirement
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Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement
The internet retirement police strike again.AlwaysWannaLearn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pmYou're not retired. You're working part-time.
Not judging, btw - If that's all you need to do to meet your needs/wants, congrats! Good on you.
Please just don't confuse FI or PT self-employment/"side hustles" with "retirement".
I think we need to have a sticky where we clearly delineate 'financial independence' from 'retirement'. Financial independence means that one no longer must work to satisfy their financial needs. Retirement (IMHO) means the cessation of working for personal financial gain.
I personally couldn't care less whether someone is retired or not. Financial independence means that they are free to do what will they within the constraints they have imposed on themselves. If this happens to involve working for a dollar a day doing something that they love, great for them.
The Sensible Steward
Re: Early retirement
1, 2 and 4 probably make it easier to do 3 (or easier to live farther below one's means), but I think it's only 3 that matters. I'm optimistic of getting there on only 1 and 3!ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
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Re: Early retirement
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Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement
I walked away from teaching this year at age 54. I’ll probably try some part time educational consulting and curriculum development. But mostly I’ll be a stay at home dad. And look for possible side gigs to keep me busy. My wife will likely keep working for another 10 years or so until she is about 58.
Doesn’t feel right to call myself retired if my wife is still working. So I basically just tell people I’ll be doing part time consulting work and that seems to satisfy everyone. No one seems to know what that actually means but they usually don’t care enough to ask, or perhaps don’t want to seem ignorant. Half the stay home moms in my neighborhoods call themselves “consultants” on Facebook so I guess I’m in good company.
Doesn’t feel right to call myself retired if my wife is still working. So I basically just tell people I’ll be doing part time consulting work and that seems to satisfy everyone. No one seems to know what that actually means but they usually don’t care enough to ask, or perhaps don’t want to seem ignorant. Half the stay home moms in my neighborhoods call themselves “consultants” on Facebook so I guess I’m in good company.
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Re: Early retirement
I think we need to have a sticky where we clearly delineate 'financial independence' from 'retirement'. Financial independence means that one no longer must work to satisfy their financial needs.
Agreed, and 'retirement' means NOT WORKING and living solely off of one's savings/investments and pensions/SS/health benefits earned during one's working years, whether working for a w-2 employer or for oneself (side hustle or otherwise). If we need to delineate between FI-(and that weird interim period of getting cash via "working", from various side gigs/SE/whatever)-and "real" RE, I'm open to it. Maybe: FI-WIP-RE
LLP
I personally couldn't care less whether someone is retired or not. Financial independence means that they are free to do what will they within the constraints they have imposed on themselves. If this happens to involve working for a dollar a day doing something that they love, great for them.
My 85 year old mother-in-law lives off the 8 rental properties that she owns and somewhat actively manages. She kept buying them over the years instead of investing in mutual funds or equities because she didn’t trust the stock market. She retired from her actual government job 20 years ago. By your definition she would not be retired and never will be.Agreed. I couldn't care less either, and I wish nothing but the best for anyone who's achieved FI, and for anyone who's achieved FI and in that WIP stage. However, for those truly facing/making decisions on "retirement" as defined above, the distinction makes a difference.
Last edited by texasdiver on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Early retirement
Is Johnny Bench retired? Shaq Oneal? Richard Petty?AlwaysWannaLearn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pmYou're not retired. You're working part-time.
Not judging, btw - If that's all you need to do to meet your needs/wants, congrats! Good on you.
Please just don't confuse FI or PT self-employment/"side hustles" with "retirement".
I see them doing TV commercials all the time. But I'm pretty sure 99% of the population considers them "retired".
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
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Re: Early retirement
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Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Early retirement
We seem to have this disagreement about what "retired" means pretty regularly. It is generally a subjective thing to many people. I don't personally care what people want to call themselves. But, for the purposes of conversations, it does help to have common meaning for words.
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Early retirement
Yes! You and I are so on the same page in this regard. It's so wonderful living in this new era. We have access to people and activities that just weren't as easily accessible before. To me, it's an amazing time to be alive.VictoriaF wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:20 pmTo clarify my point, I am not interested in making as many friends as possible. But I do want to socialize with intelligent stimulating people. The larger the pool where I can find people I may potentially like, the more choice I have. In the stone age, my pool of potential intelligent stimulating people was rather small. Today it's bigger.2015 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:48 pmAgain I have a difficult time responding, as I personally have no issue meeting people. This is because I have (finally) accepted the fact over the course of my life people always show up who I informally and spontaneously coach in some way (it just happened again this week). It's taken a lifetime for me to learn that once we finally accept ourselves, with all of our failures, warts, and humanity, people who are meant to be there in a win/win context for us will simply materialize.
Victoria
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Re: Early retirement
Is it whispered like “cancer” used to be?MikeG62 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 pmI think you mentioned awkward reactions from some family members. Here to, no such reactions from family members. Most stay away from the topic during get togethers, almost like it’s some private thing that should not be talked about. I initially found it odd that the subject is avoided (I don't know maybe it's out of jealousy), but otherwise I really don’t care.
He’s retired.
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Re: Early retirement
Most early retirees I've met, really just retired from their jobs that were meant to provide a paycheck. They went on to do other things that made them more authentic.
Re: Early retirement
The second suggestion probably eliminates 95% of the general population and at least 80% of bogleheads by my conservative estimation. That will stop the conversation with most people.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
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Re: Early retirement
I think items #2 and #3 are the most useful. You don't need to be married to retire early, as it can sometimes be an obstacle to it. And I never heard of the book as I was planning my eventual ER 10 years ago, although I probably abide by at least some of its principles.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
- willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement
I think you're right. But while I love my daughter with all my heart, but there's no disputing that children are nearly always a financial liability to their parents in first-world nations these days. Nonetheless, they need not prevent an early retirement. Justin at www.rootofgood.com and his wife had three children and yet retired in their early 30s with well over $1M and a paid-off home.bltn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:17 amThe second suggestion probably eliminates 95% of the general population and at least 80% of bogleheads by my conservative estimation. That will stop the conversation with most people.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
Further, it is not at all necessary to spend the median reported $250k on each child from birth to age 18 ($1,157 per month per child) in order to raise them very well.
The Sensible Steward
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Re: Early retirement
In some circumstances. Meanwhile, we will have paid roughly $95k per kid just on daycare until kindergarten... Ouch.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:27 amFurther, it is not at all necessary to spend the median reported $250k on each child from birth to age 18 ($1,157 per month per child) in order to raise them very well.bltn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:17 amThe second suggestion probably eliminates 95% of the general population and at least 80% of bogleheads by my conservative estimation. That will stop the conversation with most people.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
- willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement
Hopefully, both you and your spouse (you said "we") earned more than that over that period. Otherwise, it would not have made financial sense for both of you to work.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:42 amIn some circumstances. Meanwhile, we will have paid roughly $95k per kid just on daycare until kindergarten... Ouch.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:27 amFurther, it is not at all necessary to spend the median reported $250k on each child from birth to age 18 ($1,157 per month per child) in order to raise them very well.bltn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:17 amThe second suggestion probably eliminates 95% of the general population and at least 80% of bogleheads by my conservative estimation. That will stop the conversation with most people.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
The Sensible Steward
Re: Early retirement
Just yesterday someone asked me what I do, and I said I am retired. She flat out didn't believe me; couldn't fathom that I had made enough money to be FI. I guess I look young
Since I'm contemplating a startup (currently doing a course on the business model canvas), I guess I'll go back to telling people I work part time. It just makes it easier...
Since I'm contemplating a startup (currently doing a course on the business model canvas), I guess I'll go back to telling people I work part time. It just makes it easier...
Re: Early retirement
I did well with just #3. My #5 isscrabbler1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:15 amI think items #2 and #3 are the most useful. You don't need to be married to retire early, as it can sometimes be an obstacle to it. And I never heard of the book as I was planning my eventual ER 10 years ago, although I probably abide by at least some of its principles.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
:
5. Rent
That, of course, eliminates 69% of the American population and 96% of the Bogleheads. By renting cheaper apartments close to work, I have eliminated most commute and had time and energy to pursue continuing education and career moves. Even more importantly, I was never tempted by remodeling or expensive furniture and decoration. I never needed to hire anyone to take care of my living space or the grounds. I never had emergency expenses due to floods, falling trees, or other calamities. My refrigerators and stoves are replaced by apartment managers. I have no idea where my boilers and pumps are located. My laundry room is on the first floor and has several washers and driers all of which are available during weekdays.
I have no desire to customize my home environment, except having space for books. I find enough diversion by going out and traveling.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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Re: Early retirement
Yes, we did (that total will have been over nearly six years for one kid and five years for the other). Can't wait for public school!willthrill81 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:45 amHopefully, both you and your spouse (you said "we") earned more than that over that period. Otherwise, it would not have made financial sense for both of you to work.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:42 amIn some circumstances. Meanwhile, we will have paid roughly $95k per kid just on daycare until kindergarten... Ouch.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:27 amFurther, it is not at all necessary to spend the median reported $250k on each child from birth to age 18 ($1,157 per month per child) in order to raise them very well.bltn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:17 amThe second suggestion probably eliminates 95% of the general population and at least 80% of bogleheads by my conservative estimation. That will stop the conversation with most people.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
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Re: Early retirement
For me, switching from renting to owning was a big step toward being able to retire 10 years ago at age 45. I bought an apartment in a large co-op complex, "buying the worst apartment in the best building," as the axiom goes. After netting out the tax savings and the mortgage principal retirement, I was paying about the same owning as I was renting, while building up equity. Nine years later, after a mortgage refi, I paid off the mortgage and greatly reduced my monthly expenses. Today, I pay less than half of what I'd be paying in rent.VictoriaF wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:22 amI did well with just #3. My #5 isscrabbler1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:15 amI think items #2 and #3 are the most useful. You don't need to be married to retire early, as it can sometimes be an obstacle to it. And I never heard of the book as I was planning my eventual ER 10 years ago, although I probably abide by at least some of its principles.ebeard wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm I retired 2 years ago at 47 and my wife last year at 49. We still have side gigs for about 1 week per month so I guess we are really 75% retired. The days go so quick. We look at each other every night and think where did the day go? We are active and workout most days. We spend 30-40% of the year traveling and really experiencing other cultures. Most people want to know how this is possible and I tell them:
1. Marry the right person
2. Don't have children
3. Live below your means
4. Read "Your money or your life" and "Bogleheads guide to investing"
Most people just say "ok" and I'm sure completely ignore me. A few asks follow up questions and we delve further into the Boglehead philosophy. I'm not preachy. I'm lucky to have read those 2 books early in my career and had a grandfather that taught me how to save and do things myself.
:
5. Rent
That, of course, eliminates 69% of the American population and 96% of the Bogleheads. By renting cheaper apartments close to work, I have eliminated most commute and had time and energy to pursue continuing education and career moves. Even more importantly, I was never tempted by remodeling or expensive furniture and decoration. I never needed to hire anyone to take care of my living space or the grounds. I never had emergency expenses due to floods, falling trees, or other calamities. My refrigerators and stoves are replaced by apartment managers. I have no idea where my boilers and pumps are located. My laundry room is on the first floor and has several washers and driers all of which are available during weekdays.
I have no desire to customize my home environment, except having space for books. I find enough diversion by going out and traveling.
Victoria
Living in a large co-op means I pay a very small share of the co-op's fixed expenses as part of my monthly maintenance fees (which are mostly tax-deductible). The only household maintenance expenses I am responsible for are those which occur within the apartment, although simple tasks such as unclogging a drain or toilet are done by the building's staff at no charge.
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Re: Early retirement
What you need is a Ferrari! People will believe you're retired if you drive a Ferrari. If you're just a working stiff, you're out there in your Camry, sitting in the cube, watching your soul escape into the abyss. Saying you're retired is just a fantasy. It must be. Right?
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
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Re: Early retirement
Correct.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:43 pm We seem to have this disagreement about what "retired" means pretty regularly. It is generally a subjective thing to many people. I don't personally care what people want to call themselves. But, for the purposes of conversations, it does help to have common meaning for words.
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
I expect to have zero earned income this year, same as last, hence...
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- willthrill81
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Re: Early retirement
I'd offered these.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:43 pm We seem to have this disagreement about what "retired" means pretty regularly. It is generally a subjective thing to many people. I don't personally care what people want to call themselves. But, for the purposes of conversations, it does help to have common meaning for words.
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
willthrill81 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:15 pmI think we need to have a sticky where we clearly delineate 'financial independence' from 'retirement'. Financial independence means that one no longer must work to satisfy their financial needs. Retirement (IMHO) means the cessation of working for personal financial gain.
The Sensible Steward
Re: Early retirement
I don't know if that will do it. My wife had NQ stock options that she exercised 10-15 years after retirement. The option exercises created taxable compensation which qualified us both to make IRA contributions. But she wasn't working for a paycheck anywhere.
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Re: Early retirement
Retired
Unemployed
Self-employed
Financially Independent
Stay-at-Home spouse
One could draw a venn diagram with a lot of these different circles overlapping in complicated ways.
When one is of normal retirement age or older no one really questions or cares about the details. I see 75 year old “retired” teachers who do substitute teaching at my school. Mostly to get out of the house and earn a little extra spending cash for travel. No one thinks they aren’t retired. My mother in law is 85 and has a bunch of rental properties in Chile. She has a property manager but micromanages him. She is always on the phone or dealing with some issue over email. I think she just loves it. She retired from her government job 20 years ago and this is her main source of retirement income. No one wouldn’t think she isn’t retired. My 80 year old uncle is a “retired” farmer who passed the family farm on down to his son and now grandson. But he still has a lot of ownership in the operation as they are buying it from him. And he is frequently down on the farm running machinery and helping out during crunch times. Is he retired?
For some reason people really get bent out of shape when it comes to “early retirement.” A lot of people these days seem to be walking away from corporate or professional jobs once they attain some level of financial independence and call themselves “retired” yet are still pulling in all kinds of random income through blogging, consulting, eBay businesses, property managing, handyman work, small boutique business and so forth. I think this is an upper middle class affection. People who do the same thing in Appalachia...getting by though some random combination of odd jobs and wheeler dealer bartering are just considered “poor”
Honestly I think it is kind of like the difference between porn and art. You know it when you see it but it is really hard to define.
Unemployed
Self-employed
Financially Independent
Stay-at-Home spouse
One could draw a venn diagram with a lot of these different circles overlapping in complicated ways.
When one is of normal retirement age or older no one really questions or cares about the details. I see 75 year old “retired” teachers who do substitute teaching at my school. Mostly to get out of the house and earn a little extra spending cash for travel. No one thinks they aren’t retired. My mother in law is 85 and has a bunch of rental properties in Chile. She has a property manager but micromanages him. She is always on the phone or dealing with some issue over email. I think she just loves it. She retired from her government job 20 years ago and this is her main source of retirement income. No one wouldn’t think she isn’t retired. My 80 year old uncle is a “retired” farmer who passed the family farm on down to his son and now grandson. But he still has a lot of ownership in the operation as they are buying it from him. And he is frequently down on the farm running machinery and helping out during crunch times. Is he retired?
For some reason people really get bent out of shape when it comes to “early retirement.” A lot of people these days seem to be walking away from corporate or professional jobs once they attain some level of financial independence and call themselves “retired” yet are still pulling in all kinds of random income through blogging, consulting, eBay businesses, property managing, handyman work, small boutique business and so forth. I think this is an upper middle class affection. People who do the same thing in Appalachia...getting by though some random combination of odd jobs and wheeler dealer bartering are just considered “poor”
Honestly I think it is kind of like the difference between porn and art. You know it when you see it but it is really hard to define.
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Re: Early retirement
Whether the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the pecuniary interest...texasdiver wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 pm Honestly I think it is kind of like the difference between porn and art. You know it when you see it but it is really hard to define.
Re: Early retirement
Yeah, i had not considered that scenario. Was thinking this would be considered capital gains, and not eligible for IRA contributions. But, I guess depending on vesting/excersize scenarios and how it's structured, they can still be considered ordinary income.
I am open to other objective definitions, again only for the purpose of having common language for discussions. But, as suggested above, perhaps that is really not possible.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Early retirement
I'd vote for that definition.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:39 pm I think we need to have a sticky where we clearly delineate 'financial independence' from 'retirement'. Financial independence means that one no longer must work to satisfy their financial needs. Retirement (IMHO) means the cessation of working for personal financial gain.
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Re: Early retirement
I'm still working... though pretty comfortable with my FI.... I have lots of flexibility at work so taking trips getting time off is rarely an issue and love going to the office. I work on some very neat projects... but I would like to do it less and less... at times... I'm only 36... If I did "retire" I'm not sure what I would do with all my work energy, yet..
I get the weird reactions too... I'm my social circle being a millionaire is something these folks can't comprehend... but I'm not all about the money... just choosing wisely what I do with it.
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Re: Early retirement
.....
Last edited by AlwaysWannaLearn on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Early retirement
Sounds like Scott Adams (of “Dilbert” fame): “Goals are for losers, systems are for winners”
It's not an engineering problem - Hersh Shefrin | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
Re: Early retirement
The first, second and fifth points are good. But I disagree with the third and fourth.
Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early retirement
Scott Adams has two excellent recent books. He explains Goals vs. Systems in "How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big: Kind of the Story of My Life." In "Win Bigly" he mentions it.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
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Re: Early retirement
So if we live off rental income and investments then we are retired (not there yet) since that income is considered passive by the government and therefore can not contribute to an ira? Just want to make sure I understand the syntax correctlyThe Wizard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:37 pmCorrect.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:43 pm We seem to have this disagreement about what "retired" means pretty regularly. It is generally a subjective thing to many people. I don't personally care what people want to call themselves. But, for the purposes of conversations, it does help to have common meaning for words.
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
I expect to have zero earned income this year, same as last, hence...
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Re: Early retirement
Sounds good to me. There's some threshold over which you become actively participating and therefore self employed in the real estate area.JGoneRiding wrote: ↑Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:51 pmSo if we live off rental income and investments then we are retired (not there yet) since that income is considered passive by the government and therefore can not contribute to an ira? Just want to make sure I understand the syntax correctlyThe Wizard wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:37 pmCorrect.marcopolo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:43 pm We seem to have this disagreement about what "retired" means pretty regularly. It is generally a subjective thing to many people. I don't personally care what people want to call themselves. But, for the purposes of conversations, it does help to have common meaning for words.
Perhaps we could benefit from a more objective definition. At least in the US, the government conveniently provides an objective measure that could be used. If you are eligible to contribute to an IRA of any type, then perhaps you are not retired?
I expect to have zero earned income this year, same as last, hence...
I'm no expert on that; you'd have to check IRS pubs...
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- TheTimeLord
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Re: Early retirement
No many ex-athletes that have retired from their sports are still running their business interest, most of which fly under the radar of the public.bhsince87 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:12 pmIs Johnny Bench retired? Shaq Oneal? Richard Petty?AlwaysWannaLearn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pmYou're not retired. You're working part-time.
Not judging, btw - If that's all you need to do to meet your needs/wants, congrats! Good on you.
Please just don't confuse FI or PT self-employment/"side hustles" with "retirement".
I see them doing TV commercials all the time. But I'm pretty sure 99% of the population considers them "retired".
Papa John's announced Friday that Shaquille O'Neal will be its newest board member and the new face of the brand as the struggling pizza chain tries to improve its image with U.S. consumers.
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Re: Early retirement
Zombie thread but I paid 5k/month for high risk insurance 10 years ago (pregnant wife and cobra was cancelled). Add 10 years of inflation and then triple it. Does 20k really seem like a stretch A 40 year old retiree in 15 years is 55. 200k*10 = 2 million. So yea a million or two come close to covering it.marcopolo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:39 pmI love this forum. But, the fears that sometimes get conjured up to scare people about retiring early are a bit over the top.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm$20k a month? In today's dollars? $240k a year just for healthcare? Quadruple the current median household income?randomguy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:17 amThey can buy it today and pretty reasonable prices (i.e. <2k month). The question is going forward what the world is like. You think you worst case in 10-15 years is 2k/month. I think the worst case is more like 20k (i.e. you develop diabetes, preexisting conditions limits go away, you are forced to buy into the high risk pool, and medical costs keep going up 5-7%/year that they have done for the last 30 years). That is a huge range for planning purposes. We are talking another million or two in savings for a 50 year old.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am
I believe that part of the issue is because many people, including a lot of Bogleheads, view healthcare as a qualitatively different expense than all others. No one ever asks "You're planning on retiring early? What will you do about groceries, your utility bill, and clothing?" While healthcare expenses can certainly represent a large portion of an early retiree's expenses, that's not always the case. Justin at RootofGood.com has had an ACA plan for years that costs him something like $40 a month because they keep their income low despite their $2M portfolio and paid-off home. Certainly that's not an option for everyone, but there is no one-size-fits-all approach for healthcare, not unlike many other consumption categories, like housing.
It is also my belief that Americans with at least some financial stability have largely accepted the notion that healthcare can only be had with healthcare insurance. That was not true before the ACA, and it's not true today. There are other options, like medical tourism, becoming an ex-pat (high quality healthcare is comparatively cheap in many fine places in the world), and healthshare ministries (which are a bit of a hornet's nest around here lately for some reason).
But if someone really needs/wants medical insurance, they can just buy it. It just takes money, seriously. It's pricey, but it's need not be outside the reach of an early retiree. At my planned retirement age, my wife and I could get a 'bronze' medical policy today with a high deductible for around $700 monthly; actually with subsidies it would be around $400-$500 monthly. Let's say that the cost of a policy like that triples in the course of the next 15 years, the approximate time before my planned retirement. That's $2,100 monthly, about $25k annually. That would be 1/3 to 1/4 of planned retirement income. That's perfectly doable for us, and we don't plan on having a $5M portfolio either.
We'll become ex-pats long before that happens if we have any choice in the matter.
Also, the math does not add up. If one needs 20k/month at age 50, an extra million or two is not going to cut it, not even close. Plus all those extra medical expenses does not go away at Medicare age, plus Medicare could go away.
So, you better wait until you have an extra 20 or 30 million, just to be safe.
Obviously there is a crap load of assumptions that go into the worst case. As long as ACA sticks around Medicare insurance isn't a big deal as you can buy it. That hasn't always been true.
Re: Early retirement
I am considering retire at 55-56 range. These questions you get such as “what will you do” and “why stop in your
prime earning years” certainly give me cause to rethink. I stopped using the word retire since it makes me feel old and I dont want to be a lame duck until I really stop working.
One can always accelerate gray hair if you want to avoid the questions
prime earning years” certainly give me cause to rethink. I stopped using the word retire since it makes me feel old and I dont want to be a lame duck until I really stop working.
One can always accelerate gray hair if you want to avoid the questions
Re: Early retirement
Awesome don't know what equity means!Hockey10 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 pmYes, I have experienced all of the above.
I retired at 55. The first reaction I got at work was "how can you retire, you are only 45". (I am told that I look 10 years younger than I actually am ; this is the one time where I wished I looked 10 years older). Most people would congratulate me, while others would initiate an interrogation worthy of the KGB in the peak of the Cold War. I gave 2.5 months notice at work, and I got so tired of having to explain myself to others on a daily basis, that I eventually stopped telling anyone that did not know yet.
When they started to dig and I told them that I started saving for retirement at age 22 and my investments were 100% equity for 3 decades, I would get responses such as:
- I don't have any $ saved for retirement
- I have so much debt that I will work until I die
- My first wife took all of my money, so I have no hope of retiring until I am 80
- You can't retire until you are 65
- What does equity mean?
"PSX will always go up 20%, why invest in anything else?!" -Father-in-law early retired.