Management at Megacorp

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Mom 2 Groms
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Management at Megacorp

Post by Mom 2 Groms » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

I'm interested in going into management. I'm just not interested in going into management at my current company. I'm looking for advise on how to proceed.

I accepted a position at this company 4 years ago, and have been approached by several people in and out of my org chart that have encouraged me to apply for management positions here. My hesitation is that I'm not a good fit for this company. I am not passionate about the industry that I currently work in, and I didn't grow up hoping for the opportunity to work at this company. (background - the megacorp I work at runs this city. I moved here 4 years ago for the job. The people who work here are almost cultish about their passion for the industry and love of the company, and everyone my age grew up with the goal of working here.)

There are several managers that I work with here that have the passion for the industry, and they are also good managers. I have a lot of respect for them and treat them like mentors. I see their passion, and the knowledge they have that only comes from experience in the industry - and I think it helps to make them successful. Because I don't have the industry experience, or the passion, I don't think I could give a management position here my best.

I've been looking for jobs at other companies. I'm applying to management positions as well as regular positions. I don't think I have a real shot of getting a management position without management experience. Usually, at Megacorps, how long does one need to work there before they will be considered for management? Should my goal be to get in the door somewhere, and then move up? Should I make this goal known during the interview process?

sport
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by sport » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:23 am

It should be easier to get into management at your present employer, because they know you and value your abilities. Once you have some management experience, it will be easier to get management positions elsewhere.

itsgot8
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by itsgot8 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 am

Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am
I'm interested in going into management. I'm just not interested in going into management at my current company. I'm looking for advise on how to proceed.

I accepted a position at this company 4 years ago, and have been approached by several people in and out of my org chart that have encouraged me to apply for management positions here. My hesitation is that I'm not a good fit for this company. I am not passionate about the industry that I currently work in, and I didn't grow up hoping for the opportunity to work at this company. (background - the megacorp I work at runs this city. I moved here 4 years ago for the job. The people who work here are almost cultish about their passion for the industry and love of the company, and everyone my age grew up with the goal of working here.)

There are several managers that I work with here that have the passion for the industry, and they are also good managers. I have a lot of respect for them and treat them like mentors. I see their passion, and the knowledge they have that only comes from experience in the industry - and I think it helps to make them successful. Because I don't have the industry experience, or the passion, I don't think I could give a management position here my best.

I've been looking for jobs at other companies. I'm applying to management positions as well as regular positions. I don't think I have a real shot of getting a management position without management experience. Usually, at Megacorps, how long does one need to work there before they will be considered for management? Should my goal be to get in the door somewhere, and then move up? Should I make this goal known during the interview process?
I would think it is better to get management experience, and the presumed pay increase that comes along with it, at your current company. It should give you more leverage when you interview for a management position external to your company.

It's also probably better to make your management mistakes at your current employer and take advantage of any mentoring opportunities from your current co-workers. That way you're more polished for the management position at the next company.
Last edited by itsgot8 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

btenny
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by btenny » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:26 am

Apply for and take a management job with your current company. I know you do not have the passion but many others do not. See if you like managing. The new role may change your views. Give it a year or so to get better.

Good Luck

Mom 2 Groms
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Mom 2 Groms » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am

Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
They say "No one goes into management for the money", and I agree, there needs to be more to it. My old manager of my group was hands off. He hired me, and then left me by myself to create my own role, and then he hired a team of people for me to train and mentor. I really liked this part of my job, and is my main motivation for wanting to go into management - I just want to be fairly compensated for the extra time that I will need to put into it.

-We moved "here" 4 years ago for the job. We are a 12 hour car ride from "home - Florida". I actually really like the community we live in, but the winters are brutal for Floridians and being so far away from family is isolating. We want to move back home.

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:17 am

What is "management"? How do the duties of management differ from the responsibilities of non-management?

It would help if you told us what function you're in. In my team at MegaCorp, you don't have anyone reporting to you until you get to the Director level, at which point you're 7-10 years in and making $300k/year. Your main responsibilities shift from making slides and excel spreadsheets to building relationships with people in other part of the corporation in order to build influence for you and your team.

barnaclebob
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:21 am

Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
That sounds terrible.

Steve723
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Steve723 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:26 am

Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
They say "No one goes into management for the money", and I agree, there needs to be more to it. My old manager of my group was hands off. He hired me, and then left me by myself to create my own role, and then he hired a team of people for me to train and mentor. I really liked this part of my job, and is my main motivation for wanting to go into management - I just want to be fairly compensated for the extra time that I will need to put into it.

-We moved "here" 4 years ago for the job. We are a 12 hour car ride from "home - Florida". I actually really like the community we live in, but the winters are brutal for Floridians and being so far away from family is isolating. We want to move back home.

You mention the 7% base increase, but what about bonus opportunity? Do you have a target bonus amount or percentage? Also, does your company give out equity? Often times people focus only on the base increase without researching or inquiring about these other components, which are often tied to pay grade/level. Your total compensation increase potential may very well be far north of 10% or even 15% if your company pegs bonus and equity to grade level.

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mhadden1
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by mhadden1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:30 am

My guess is that the lifelong passion aspect is missing for most managers. I would not worry about that part.
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Mom 2 Groms
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Mom 2 Groms » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:42 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:17 am
What is "management"? How do the duties of management differ from the responsibilities of non-management?

It would help if you told us what function you're in. In my team at MegaCorp, you don't have anyone reporting to you until you get to the Director level, at which point you're 7-10 years in and making $300k/year. Your main responsibilities shift from making slides and excel spreadsheets to building relationships with people in other part of the corporation in order to build influence for you and your team.
Management here would be a manager job title. You would have a team of 4-10 people working for you. You would be responsible for the hiring, firing, reviews, promotions, training, and development of the team that works for you, as well as managing their day to day responsibilities. At my company, Directors manage the managers who manage the people.

I am an analyst, so its easy to transition to different industries. I would like to manage a team of analysts, who take a large mass of data and turn it into something useful, present their findings and make recommendations on what steps to take next to achieve whatever goal.

I have 10 years of professional work experience with increased responsibilities at every company. At my current company managers make anywhere from 80K - 150K base salary, with bonus potential of 10% of base.

Mom 2 Groms
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Mom 2 Groms » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:46 am

Steve723 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:26 am


You mention the 7% base increase, but what about bonus opportunity? Do you have a target bonus amount or percentage? Also, does your company give out equity? Often times people focus only on the base increase without researching or inquiring about these other components, which are often tied to pay grade/level. Your total compensation increase potential may very well be far north of 10% or even 15% if your company pegs bonus and equity to grade level.
My current bonus potential is 7% of base. If I were to transition to management here the bonus potential would increase to 10% of base. There is no equity that I know of, but I think they used to offer equity in the good ole days. They do peg bonus potential and promotional increases to grade level here.

il0kin
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by il0kin » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:50 am

Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
They say "No one goes into management for the money", and I agree, there needs to be more to it. My old manager of my group was hands off. He hired me, and then left me by myself to create my own role, and then he hired a team of people for me to train and mentor. I really liked this part of my job, and is my main motivation for wanting to go into management - I just want to be fairly compensated for the extra time that I will need to put into it.

-We moved "here" 4 years ago for the job. We are a 12 hour car ride from "home - Florida". I actually really like the community we live in, but the winters are brutal for Floridians and being so far away from family is isolating. We want to move back home.
This would be, functionally, a pay decrease. Maybe it's worth it in the long term if you can jump from manager to director level and start to really get into the bigger 6 figures. Maybe not.

I have found that for me, personally, I am very happy as a 40-45 hour a week individual contributor. I am well compensated, my work is interesting and challenging and I have plenty of time to spend with my family and enjoy my hobbies and life. The bills are paid, 15% + 3% match goes into retirement accounts and we live a comfortable life. I may pursue management in the future, but I am not willing to sacrifice weekends and evenings with my family for more money at this time. Money isn't everything to me. YMMV.

Sasquatch
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Sasquatch » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:55 am

I was a upper level manager at megacorp for well over 20 years. I managed about 400 people which include a support staff of managers and supervisors.

The biggest issue for me is the changing attitudes of people as the years have went by. This is employee and clients as well. Very much a sense of entitlement and finding compromise was getting harder and harder. It was coming down to a lot of disciplinary action which is not how I like to manage. Sitting down with a employee, identifying the issue and working out a action plan together to get them to buy in is a fleeting concept in my world.

I sure I am a bit of a dinosaur but I no longer fit in the new system so I jumped ship.

I encourage you to weigh the pros and cons and if you have confidants in the senior ranks maybe sniffing around might help. In the end maybe managing is the right decision for you. Nothing wrong for that at all. Such a highly personal decision.

ShowMeTheER
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by ShowMeTheER » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:09 pm

Training and (People) Management are two different things.

Be clear with yourself about which you are looking for. Maybe there is something in between that will be better off for all parties.

sabhen
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by sabhen » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:45 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:21 am
Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
That sounds terrible.
+1

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:57 pm

sabhen wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:45 pm
barnaclebob wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:21 am
Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
That sounds terrible.
+1
This sounds like the kind of job where they line up candidates in a line. They say if you want the job to take one step forward and everyone takes a step back.

I knew a CEO who put in these kinds of hours. But it was a 20 Billion dollar company and he was pulling well north of $15 Mil a year. He recently retired.
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28fe6
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by 28fe6 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:27 pm

I had a thread very similar to this a couple weeks ago. It was a worse job with longer hours, high political risk, only 5% more. I turned it down. No regrets.

Traveler
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by Traveler » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:03 pm

For only 7% more pay and maybe an extra 1-2% in bonus, there's no way I'd work that many more hours. I'm in management at a megacorp and if I was promoted right now, my base would likely only increase 5% but my bonus would go from 35% to 60%. Even then, I'm not sure I want the additional responsibility.

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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:07 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance).
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mako171
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by mako171 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:00 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:17 am
What is "management"? How do the duties of management differ from the responsibilities of non-management?

It would help if you told us what function you're in. In my team at MegaCorp, you don't have anyone reporting to you until you get to the Director level, at which point you're 7-10 years in and making $300k/year. Your main responsibilities shift from making slides and excel spreadsheets to building relationships with people in other part of the corporation in order to build influence for you and your team.
Is this right? Is the main responsibility of a middle manager to develop relationships intrafirm and expand influence/impact? Can you explain more? Thanks!

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TxAg
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by TxAg » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:22 pm

Mom 2 Groms wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 am
Thank you for the advise! I now realized I left off some details.

-Raise would be 7% going into management. It would take my 8-5 job and turn it into 100% on call all the time, with expectations to work 10-15 hours on the weekends, and a few hours every night at home. These are sacrifices I'd be willing to make if the increase was larger.
They say "No one goes into management for the money", and I agree, there needs to be more to it. My old manager of my group was hands off. He hired me, and then left me by myself to create my own role, and then he hired a team of people for me to train and mentor. I really liked this part of my job, and is my main motivation for wanting to go into management - I just want to be fairly compensated for the extra time that I will need to put into it.

-We moved "here" 4 years ago for the job. We are a 12 hour car ride from "home - Florida". I actually really like the community we live in, but the winters are brutal for Floridians and being so far away from family is isolating. We want to move back home.
A 7% pay raise for the luxury of working ~50% more. No way!

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:28 pm

mako171 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:00 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:17 am
What is "management"? How do the duties of management differ from the responsibilities of non-management?

It would help if you told us what function you're in. In my team at MegaCorp, you don't have anyone reporting to you until you get to the Director level, at which point you're 7-10 years in and making $300k/year. Your main responsibilities shift from making slides and excel spreadsheets to building relationships with people in other part of the corporation in order to build influence for you and your team.
Is this right? Is the main responsibility of a middle manager to develop relationships intrafirm and expand influence/impact? Can you explain more? Thanks!
It depends on your function and company culture. Most of my team’s work involves cross-functional projects, ones that typically look to change something about how we do business. Sourcing and executing these projects relies heavily on trust and relationships.

togb
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by togb » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:27 pm

Some background: I have been a mid to senior leader for megacorps for about 20 years, and I have a good grasp on compensation theory and variable compensation both as a recipient and an administrator.

Typically, the minimum increase that would accompany a promotion is 8-10%, since salary ranges are designed to provide meaningful pay increases for promotions. The exception would be if you are already seriously overpaid for your current role.

The bonus opportunity you cite suggests that they do not really pay for performance, ie they don't differential financially between top performers and run of the mill performers. Not for entry level managers, but say 2nd or 3rd level, a real pay for performance organization will dangle variable compensation of 30-70% of base salary.

As for passion for the industry? It's part of a leader's job to display that. Personally, I advise that if you don't love what you do, love why you do it.

YMMV. I echo other comments that say if you want to grow in leadership, take the first step where they will let you have a leader job. Once you have experience, you can jump.

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CaliJim
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by CaliJim » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:18 pm

sport wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:23 am
It should be easier to get into management at your present employer, because they know you and value your abilities. Once you have some management experience, it will be easier to get management positions elsewhere.
This. Very this.

OMG.... they like you where you work. This is great! Some lucky folks "discover their Passion". The rest of us have to develop it.

Taking advantage of opportunities when they arise does not prevent you from seeking other opportunities elsewhere.

And rare is the day when an individual contributor at company X is hired into management at company Y.

Company Y would wonder... "if this person wasn't promoted at company X, why should I take the risk of promoting them"

A resume that shows continual progression, wherever you go, is what you want. Soon enough you'll own the place! LOL.
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DVMResident
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by DVMResident » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:00 am

Do you find any passion in developing people, seeing them succeed and grow?
I like my field, but I love my team and seeing them grow even more.

Your added details seem like a poor reward, but sometimes you need to look lateral to grow in the next position.
What's the growth look like after this entry management position?

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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by blevine » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:51 am

Seems to me companies want people from their industry mostly. Better to go to an industry you may enjoy and work your way up.

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jharkin
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Re: Management at Megacorp

Post by jharkin » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:38 am

Sasquatch wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:55 am
I was a upper level manager at megacorp for well over 20 years. I managed about 400 people which include a support staff of managers and supervisors.

The biggest issue for me is the changing attitudes of people as the years have went by. This is employee and clients as well. Very much a sense of entitlement and finding compromise was getting harder and harder. It was coming down to a lot of disciplinary action which is not how I like to manage. Sitting down with a employee, identifying the issue and working out a action plan together to get them to buy in is a fleeting concept in my world.

I sure I am a bit of a dinosaur but I no longer fit in the new system so I jumped ship.

I encourage you to weigh the pros and cons and if you have confidants in the senior ranks maybe sniffing around might help. In the end maybe managing is the right decision for you. Nothing wrong for that at all. Such a highly personal decision.
Yep... Over 20 years I worked my way up to director at a public midcap ... smaller span of control (about 40, spread globally), but dealt with the same challenges. Constant pressure to cut cost, improve productivity, increase velocity and suck every last ounce we could out of people. That heavy handed top down pressure killed morale and created a lot of the backlash you describe.

I eventually had enough, and left for a program/project manager type job at a smaller private firm and could not be happier.

. . .
To the OP:
Doubling workload/stress for just a 7% increase? No way. Move on...
You may have to take an individual contributor role elsewhere and then wait a few years for an opening to move up - but that's ok. Don't rush to jump form individual contributor straight to general manager or director... work your way up incrementally (i.e. team lead.. etc), you will be more likely to succeed.

And keep an open mind, as in some fields (especially tech) there are IC promotion paths that can be just as financially rewarding as mid-management with a fraction of the stress.

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