Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

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barber
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Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by barber » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:29 pm

The following was posed on the Early Retirement Forum by member Ready and I find myself needing the same information.
Our home is in a trust, and it occurred to me that I need to add the trust as an additionally insured on our homeowners and umbrella policies. We are with Allstate and our agent is refusing to do so, stating that Allstate does not want the liability of naming a trust to a personal insurance policy.

I will be contacting our insurer, Erie, first thing Monday morning.

neilpilot
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by neilpilot » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:35 pm

While your approach is to add your trust as an additional insured, our setup is different and hasn’t been an issue with 2 underwriters to date, Nationwide and Farmers.

Our deed is titled in the name of our trust, and our homeowners policy is issued to the trust, with no additional insured.

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barber
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by barber » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:48 pm

Our policy has husband and wife listed as the insured, but the deed list's the house in our trust name. Potentially we are not covered.

mouses
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:16 am

Ulp. This never occurred to me. My house is in my revocable living trust but the homeowners and umbrella liability are in my name.

I phoned AMICA, and they think I have to add the trust, but are looking into it. They said if that's the case it will be insured as of the time of my phone call while they figure this out. There was some confusion about the umbrella since the cars are not in the trust. (The will rolls everything I own into the trust when I die.) I think the trust has to be named in the umbrella but the phone person was thinking no.

I expect AMICA to do the right thing, they always do, also bonus points for having knowledgeable phone support 24/7.

Ben10
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Ben10 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am

Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 am

Ben10 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am
Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.
Is "alternate payee" the same as "alternate insured"? What does it actually mean? For example, just to wander afield a bit, what happens with a claim payment if the insurance has person A as the insured and person B as an alternate insured/alternate payee?

Ben10
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Ben10 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:08 pm

mouses wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 am
Ben10 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am
Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.
Is "alternate payee" the same as "alternate insured"? What does it actually mean? For example, just to wander afield a bit, what happens with a claim payment if the insurance has person A as the insured and person B as an alternate insured/alternate payee?
The thinking is as follows: if person A is living when a claim is paid, the claim will be paid to person A. If person A is deceased, the claim will be paid to the alternate payee - in this case, the Trust.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by denovo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:12 pm

Ben10 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:08 pm
mouses wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 am
Ben10 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am
Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.
Is "alternate payee" the same as "alternate insured"? What does it actually mean? For example, just to wander afield a bit, what happens with a claim payment if the insurance has person A as the insured and person B as an alternate insured/alternate payee?
The thinking is as follows: if person A is living when a claim is paid, the claim will be paid to person A. If person A is deceased, the claim will be paid to the alternate payee - in this case, the Trust.
I think the concern is liability claims not insurance payouts to the insured
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Ben10
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Ben10 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:18 pm

denovo wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:12 pm
Ben10 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:08 pm
mouses wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 am
Ben10 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am
Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.
Is "alternate payee" the same as "alternate insured"? What does it actually mean? For example, just to wander afield a bit, what happens with a claim payment if the insurance has person A as the insured and person B as an alternate insured/alternate payee?
The thinking is as follows: if person A is living when a claim is paid, the claim will be paid to person A. If person A is deceased, the claim will be paid to the alternate payee - in this case, the Trust.
I think the concern is liability claims not insurance payouts to the insured
The original poster said his home is in trust (which I assume is revocable). Generally the concern with a revocable trust is getting assets/funds going in, not out. There is a desire for assets to be funded into the trust to avoid probate administration, among other things. In this case, I think the issue is whether/how to get insurance money into the trust which owns the underlying real property, as opposed to such funds be paid outside of the trust.

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pfrank
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by pfrank » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:35 pm

I called my insurance agent about this question. I have my home in a revocable trust. He spoke with the underwriter and the trust has to be listed as an additional insured.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:38 pm

My insurance folk phoned this morning. They are adding the trust to the homeowners and car policies. But they say it does not have to be added to the umbrella, that there isn't even a way to do that, but it is okay because the umbrella is an extension of the underlying policies.

I still don't understand how this works, and it is a little scary that I just stumbled across this information.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:54 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (insurance).
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celia
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by celia » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:33 pm

Ben10 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:18 pm
The original poster said his home is in trust (which I assume is revocable). Generally the concern with a revocable trust is getting assets/funds going in, not out. There is a desire for assets to be funded into the trust to avoid probate administration, among other things. In this case, I think the issue is whether/how to get insurance money into the trust which owns the underlying real property, as opposed to such funds be paid outside of the trust.
Getting the money into the trust (even for a trustee who is not a trust grantor) is never a problem if your checking account is owned by the trust. Ours is and any check written to us by name gets deposited as usual. In fact, I don't think we've ever had to deposit a check made out to the trust. But over the years, we've had individual paychecks, tax refunds, birthday gifts, social security deposited into a joint trust checking account, with no problem at all.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:24 pm

Ben10 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am
Add your trust as an alternate payee under the policy.
I believe that a lot of folks struggle with semantics in this realm. In the scenario where a married couple has transferred ownership to their revocable living trust:

a) The husband and wife still need to be listed as the named insured for various reasons, especially so that they benefit from the liability protections
b) The trust, as owner of the house, needs to be named in the policy as an additional "party" having an interest in the property. I believe this is similar to how a mortgage holder is listed. Ben10 calls this an "alternate payee," and I believe that means the same thing. If the trust owns the home, but is not listed in the policy, there is a grey area regarding who is entitled to insurance payments when the house burns down. I've read that if the named insured (husband and wife) are also the current trustees, that fills in the gap. I would still insist upon seeing my trust named right on the homeowners insurance policy. The trust also needs to be listed so that if somebody is injured on the property and sues the owner (i.e. the trust), there is liability coverage.

Also, if the trust owns the home, I absolutely believe it needs to be specifically listed in any umbrella policy. I've seen umbrella policies that specifically list the individuals as named insured with an additional field for "trust name."

If I had an insurance agent who couldn't give a rapid, concise, clear answer to all of this, I would find a new agent/company.

I know of at least one attorney whose homework assignment for a person establishing a new trust lists "call your insurance agent" as the top task, even before "change ownership on your bank and brokerage accounts."

(please see my signature and note that I am also not an insurance agent)
Last edited by FIREchief on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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letsgobobby
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:53 pm

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:06 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:53 pm
mouses wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:16 am
Ulp. This never occurred to me. My house is in my revocable living trust but the homeowners and umbrella liability are in my name.

I phoned AMICA, and they think I have to add the trust, but are looking into it. They said if that's the case it will be insured as of the time of my phone call while they figure this out. There was some confusion about the umbrella since the cars are not in the trust. (The will rolls everything I own into the trust when I die.) I think the trust has to be named in the umbrella but the phone person was thinking no.

I expect AMICA to do the right thing, they always do, also bonus points for having knowledgeable phone support 24/7.
I just did this with Amica. They just added the trust as an insured. Added a few bucks to the premium. Took less than 24 hours.
Did they add the trust as an insured on your liability policy if you have one?

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:42 am

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:07 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:42 am
What would that mean? The trust isn’t going to drive down the street and cause an accident is it? Or are you saying if someone had an accident at the house then all the assets in the trust could be at risk? I’m not a personal injury lawyer so have no idea how any of this works.
I'm saying, the trust owns the house. Someone slips on the house steps and gets medical bills and sues...the owner of the house, i,e, the trust. The insurance only covers the liability amount in the homeowners policy in which the trust is named, not the mil or more coverage in the umbrella policy, because the trust is not named in the umbrella policy.

That's the scenario I'm worrying about, whether it is how things work or not, I dunno.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Sheepdog » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:53 am

barber wrote
Our home is in a trust, and it occurred to me that I need to add the trust as an additionally insured on our homeowners and umbrella policies. We are with Allstate and our agent is refusing to do so, stating that Allstate does not want the liability of naming a trust to a personal insurance policy.
THANK YOU for bringing this subject to our attention. My home is titled under our revocable trust, but our homeowner's policy does not know this. I am in the process of contacting my insurer, AARP The Hartford. for their advice.

I searched the internet and it does appear that the trust must be included in the policy. I have copied this from an insurance company website: http://www.homeinsurance.org/insuring-y ... our-trust/:
It’s not unusual for homeowners to place their home into a trust for various estate planning purposes. According to CNN Money, this is an estate-planning option for even average homeowners and not necessarily only the very wealthy. However, placing the home into a trust may cause some issues when it comes to your home insurance policy. If you find yourself with a house in a trust, you’ll need to sort through the legalities to understand exactly how this should be reflected on your policy. It’s generally something that can be accommodated by most insurance companies, but it’s not going to happen automatically.

First and foremost, you need to make sure that your insurance policy references the name of the trust as an insured. If your home is now owned by the “John Doe Trust,” it should also be named on the insurance policy. Unfortunately, too many homeowners do not take this basic step when they first set up their trust and transfer title of the home. Some assume that nothing has changed from an insurance standpoint or perhaps because they are still the trustee, the policy will reimburse them in the event of a loss. However, in the event of a loss, the home insurance policy will not pay anyone who is not named on the policy. For example, if your home is now in the name of the trust and you are not the trustee, your policy would only pay you for your personal property that you still own in your name. The value of the home cannot be paid to anyone who is not a named insured on the policy.
“One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.” — Chinese Proverb

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by erictiger » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:34 pm

Went to AAA local office this morning to add trust as additional interest on my home policy. It was no charge. However, I was told that the trust cannot be added to umbrella policy. The agent said if someone hurt in my home, he/she will sue me, not the trust. Not sure this explanation is correct. Will call AAA main office on Monday to find out.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm

I'm going to make an appointment to talk to the lawyer who wrote up my trust and will years ago to ask her about this, particularly the umbrella policy.

I am thinking that the safest thing may be to take the house out of the trust, since my will has a provision that moves everything not in the trust when I die into the trust, so that solves the probate issue. It turns out my brother has his set up this way and only he is named in the insurance.

I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.

I haven't mentioned the flood insurance, but I suppose that has to be addressed as well. I don't want to mess with the government until I'm sure what is going on.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm

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FBN2014
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:58 pm

My policy names the trust like this:

Homeowners Trust
% Homeowner
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:09 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.
If your insurance company has added the trust to both your homeowners and umbrella policies, why are you still concerned about this issue? I think it is those whose insurance companies refuse or appear ignorant who are rightfully concerned.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:12 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:09 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.
If your insurance company has added the trust to both your homeowners and umbrella policies, why are you still concerned about this issue? I think it is those whose insurance companies refuse or appear ignorant who are rightfully concerned.
They haven't added it to the umbrella. They say they do not do that.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:13 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I'm going to make an appointment to talk to the lawyer who wrote up my trust and will years ago to ask her about this, particularly the umbrella policy.

I am thinking that the safest thing may be to take the house out of the trust, since my will has a provision that moves everything not in the trust when I die into the trust, so that solves the probate issue. It turns out my brother has his set up this way and only he is named in the insurance.

I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.

I haven't mentioned the flood insurance, but I suppose that has to be addressed as well. I don't want to mess with the government until I'm sure what is going on.
I believe your house would then go through probate, conditional on state law.
Not according to the provision in the will. I saw this in action with my mother's estate/trust.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Determined » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:22 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I'm going to make an appointment to talk to the lawyer who wrote up my trust and will years ago to ask her about this, particularly the umbrella policy.

I am thinking that the safest thing may be to take the house out of the trust, since my will has a provision that moves everything not in the trust when I die into the trust, so that solves the probate issue. It turns out my brother has his set up this way and only he is named in the insurance.

I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.

I haven't mentioned the flood insurance, but I suppose that has to be addressed as well. I don't want to mess with the government until I'm sure what is going on.
This is not my experience with a will that moves everything to trust. After my mother died, everything was not in trust had to be probated. Then it was all moved into trust. This was further complicated by an issue I posted recently about a house they had put in trust, had to take out when they remortgaged, and umknowingly never put back in. So I have to probate in a second state. That house will then go to the trust.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:24 pm

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:12 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:24 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:13 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I'm going to make an appointment to talk to the lawyer who wrote up my trust and will years ago to ask her about this, particularly the umbrella policy.

I am thinking that the safest thing may be to take the house out of the trust, since my will has a provision that moves everything not in the trust when I die into the trust, so that solves the probate issue. It turns out my brother has his set up this way and only he is named in the insurance.

I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.

I haven't mentioned the flood insurance, but I suppose that has to be addressed as well. I don't want to mess with the government until I'm sure what is going on.
I believe your house would then go through probate, conditional on state law.
Not according to the provision in the will. I saw this in action with my mother's estate/trust.
Hopefully an attorney will weigh in. The pourover provision in the will ensures that any asset left out of the trust is directed to the trust, after going through probate.
You appear to be ignoring the option for brokerage accounts to name a trust as beneficiary. The same can be done for a house via beneficiary deed. In both cases, although there may also be a pourover will, the assets that name the trust as beneficiary do NOT go through probate.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:14 pm

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:16 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:12 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:09 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:16 pm
I think I will leave the trust name on the policies just in case I forget at some point and put them back in the trust or not sure what happens after I die and before the property is disposed of, in terms of insurance coverage.
If your insurance company has added the trust to both your homeowners and umbrella policies, why are you still concerned about this issue? I think it is those whose insurance companies refuse or appear ignorant who are rightfully concerned.
They haven't added it to the umbrella. They say they do not do that.
Thanks for the clarification. When you said "policies" (i.e. plural), I assumed you were including an umbrella. It sounds like you need a new insurance company. :annoyed
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:35 pm

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:44 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:35 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:12 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:24 pm
mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:13 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm


I believe your house would then go through probate, conditional on state law.
Not according to the provision in the will. I saw this in action with my mother's estate/trust.
Hopefully an attorney will weigh in. The pourover provision in the will ensures that any asset left out of the trust is directed to the trust, after going through probate.
You appear to be ignoring the option for brokerage accounts to name a trust as beneficiary. The same can be done for a house via beneficiary deed. In both cases, although there may also be a pourover will, the assets that name the trust as beneficiary do NOT go through probate.
Yes there are many other ways of transferring assets outside of probate. You are right that some jurisdictions allow homes to have named beneficiaries. Perhaps that is what happened in the case of mouse's mother. But it was not the pourover provision which avoided probate, would you agree?
Yes, I agree. :sharebeer
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:22 pm

After I see the attorney, I will post an update on what she says. I imagine it will take a week or two to get an appointment.

Ref a few posts back, when I said policies plural, I meant auto and homeowners.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by CABob » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:18 pm

mouses wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:22 pm
After I see the attorney, I will post an update on what she says. I imagine it will take a week or two to get an appointment.
I will look forward to your additional comments since this was a new one to me but I think it also applies to me.
Ref a few posts back, when I said policies plural, I meant auto and homeowners.
I guess that your auto(s) are not in the trust. If that is the case I wouldn't think the auto policies would be affected. But, maybe the autos are in the trust.
I'm thinking I will talk to my insurance agent first but may also have to talk to lawyer.
Bob

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Sheepdog » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:47 pm

I mentioned earlier that I would contact my homeowners insurer AARP The Hartford. As others have written. the agent said that I should have had the revocable trust listed in the homeowners insurance policy in the 13 years I have had the trust. The lawyer who set this up did not instruct me to do so. He is no longer in practice here so I have no one to complain to except me.
This will add $40 a year to my insurance premium which is no big deal at all.
I asked the agent what would have happened if I had had a property claim without the trust having been listed. The agent said the property would still have been covered. Then I asked if there had been liability claim. She said we would not have been covered as I would have expected.
By the way, my auto insurance policy is not involved as they are not titled in the trust.

barber Thank you again for bringing this to our attention.
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:44 am

Sheepdog wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:47 pm
I mentioned earlier that I would contact my homeowners insurer AARP The Hartford. As others have written. the agent said that I should have had the revocable trust listed in the homeowners insurance policy in the 13 years I have had the trust. The lawyer who set this up did not instruct me to do so. He is no longer in practice here so I have no one to complain to except me.
This will add $40 a year to my insurance premium which is no big deal at all.
I asked the agent what would have happened if I had had a property claim without the trust having been listed. The agent said the property would still have been covered. Then I asked if there had been liability claim. She said we would not have been covered as I would have expected.
By the way, my auto insurance policy is not involved as they are not titled in the trust.

barber Thank you again for bringing this to our attention.
Criminey. So, what is the solution for umbrella liability? Do some insurers allow the inclusion of the trust and some not? (My appointment with my lawyer is the end of next week.)

I'm just kind of sweating it here that I did not have insurance coverage that I thought I had for years.

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Sheepdog
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Sheepdog » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:01 am

mouses wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:44 am


Criminey. So, what is the solution for umbrella liability? Do some insurers allow the inclusion of the trust and some not? (My appointment with my lawyer is the end of next week.)

I'm just kind of sweating it here that I did not have insurance coverage that I thought I had for years.
I do not have an umbrella liability policy (I cancelled mine a few years ago as unneeded, we felt.)) so you may not be in a bad shape...but I don't know, of course. (Within my homeowners policy I have $600K personal liability which I feel is adequate for us.... that is if it was registered properly, which it hasn't been.),
“One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.” — Chinese Proverb

mouses
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:19 am

Sheepdog wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:01 am
mouses wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:44 am


Criminey. So, what is the solution for umbrella liability? Do some insurers allow the inclusion of the trust and some not? (My appointment with my lawyer is the end of next week.)

I'm just kind of sweating it here that I did not have insurance coverage that I thought I had for years.
I do not have an umbrella liability policy (I cancelled mine a few years ago as unneeded, we felt.)) so you may not be in a bad shape...but I don't know, of course. (Within my homeowners policy I have $600K personal liability which I feel is adequate for us.... that is if it was registered properly, which it hasn't been.),
When I look at the gigantic medical bills that can happen from an accident, I think an umbrella liability policy is a necessity, just imho.

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FIREchief
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:28 pm

mouses wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:44 am
Sheepdog wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:47 pm
I mentioned earlier that I would contact my homeowners insurer AARP The Hartford. As others have written. the agent said that I should have had the revocable trust listed in the homeowners insurance policy in the 13 years I have had the trust. The lawyer who set this up did not instruct me to do so. He is no longer in practice here so I have no one to complain to except me.
This will add $40 a year to my insurance premium which is no big deal at all.
I asked the agent what would have happened if I had had a property claim without the trust having been listed. The agent said the property would still have been covered. Then I asked if there had been liability claim. She said we would not have been covered as I would have expected.
By the way, my auto insurance policy is not involved as they are not titled in the trust.

barber Thank you again for bringing this to our attention.
Criminey. So, what is the solution for umbrella liability? Do some insurers allow the inclusion of the trust and some not? (My appointment with my lawyer is the end of next week.)

I'm just kind of sweating it here that I did not have insurance coverage that I thought I had for years.
The solution is very simple. Move to an insurance company that knows how to handle a trust. It should take one call to the agent's office and you should be done. I don't understand why you feel that you need to see your lawyer about this.

Note to readers: if your homes are owned by your revocable trust, check both homeowners and umbrella policies. If you can't find the trust mentioned by name, stop reading the internet and call your agent! 8-) (then let us know what they say)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

letsgobobby
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:00 pm

Amica confirmed that in the event my trust were sued, the umbrella would apply, since it is a revocable trust and we are both grantor and trustees.

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FIREchief
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:43 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:00 pm
Amica confirmed that in the event my trust were sued, the umbrella would apply, since it is a revocable trust and we are both grantor and trustees.
Thanks. That's good to hear. Will they specifically identify your trust in your umbrella policy?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:59 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:00 pm
Amica confirmed that in the event my trust were sued, the umbrella would apply, since it is a revocable trust and we are both grantor and trustees.
Aagh. That's what they told me the first time I called, but when I called again, they said No, it was a "personal" umbrella policy.

Did they add the trust to your umbrella or just say it applied because the homeowners had both you and the trust?

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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 pm

deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FIREchief
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:39 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 pm
mouses wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:59 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:00 pm
Amica confirmed that in the event my trust were sued, the umbrella would apply, since it is a revocable trust and we are both grantor and trustees.
Aagh. That's what they told me the first time I called, but when I called again, they said No, it was a "personal" umbrella policy.

Did they add the trust to your umbrella or just say it applied because the homeowners had both you and the trust?
the latter. I guess I'm going to trust Amica at this point, they have a good reputation for doing the right thing. Maybe I'm naive. While not an exactly analogy, I know someone who lost their home in the Santa Rosa fires. She knew dozens/scores of others who also lost their homes. By far the best company to deal with, in her/their opinion, was Amica. The other companies varied from good to difficult, but Amica seemed to universally honor claims, often on the basis of claimant's earning/professional history. In her words, she said, "I'm a physician," and they wrote her a check for the entire value of her home and its contents at replacement value, no questions asked.
Why not just find an insurance company that will specifically reference your trust, by name, in the policy? They are out there!
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

letsgobobby
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 pm

deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FIREchief
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FIREchief » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:37 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 pm
Because life is short.
I find it ironic that a person who has the time to make over 11,000 posts to an internet finance forum finds that life is too short to invest the hour that is required to change to an insurance company that will put important trust liability coverage in writing rather than saying "just trust us." :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by FrugalInvestor » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:07 pm

Thanks for the post. We are in the same position as many others here in this regard. I've sent a note to the attorney who prepared our trust documents to get his take on it. I will post what I hear from him (probably next week following the 4th).
Have a plan, stay the course, and simplify. And while you're at it, ignore the noise!

mouses
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by mouses » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:03 am

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:37 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 pm
Because life is short.
I find it ironic that a person who has the time to make over 11,000 posts to an internet finance forum finds that life is too short to invest the hour that is required to change to an insurance company that will put important trust liability coverage in writing rather than saying "just trust us." :confused
I basically trust Amica, but I like to be sure. Phone reps can be wrong. I would be extremely reluctant to change to another insurance company unless there is a strong reason for doing so, like there really is no umbrella protection for the trust.

Amica ought to have a motto "Like if your Mother were the CEO." State Farm doesn't belong on the same planet. Their motto should be "Anything we can do you out of, we will."

Alan S.
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Re: Adding a trust to your homeowner's policy

Post by Alan S. » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:45 pm

For companies that still use ISO forms, the following form would provide coverage for the trust.

http://www.hpiainfo.com/wp-content/uplo ... emises.pdf

However, many companies will have their own forms to address this need.

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