AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

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Ron Scott
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AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by Ron Scott »

I had to laugh at a piece in AARP's Money Saver section this week, by a financial planner with 20 years experience--who essentially warns people about dealing with those who sell investments. EVERY ONE of the "10 Commandments of Smart Money" is a warning against the financial industry's salesforce.

Here goes:

I. Thou shalt not forget that skillful salespeople can manipulate thy emotions.
II. Thou shalt not buy an investment without completely understanding it.
III. Thou shalt remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.
IV. Thou shalt put thyself in the sellers shoes before buying.
V. Thou shalt not ever believe thou art too smart to fall for bad investments.
VI. Thou shalt not accept the stated word but instead always get it in writing.
VII. Thou shalt not buy anything that is too good to be true.
VIII. Thou shalt avoid limited-time offers (like the plague).
IX. Thou shalt not depend upon a regulator for protection.
X. Above all, thou shalt not forget that people wish to separate thee from thy money.


Index funds?
Individual Investment Plans?
Timing the market?
Diversification?
Killing?
Coveting the neighbor's wife?
Worshiping false gods?
Stealing?
Lying?
Honoring MOM & DAD???

Nope-- None of these made the cut...
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2015
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by 2015 »

XI. Above that, thou shalt not do stupid stuff (like worship the false god of the cleverest PF on the block).
XII. Above that even, thou shalt never forget that thouest art thine own worst enemy.
Last edited by 2015 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LadyGeek
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by LadyGeek »

Thy thread hast been placed in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) f'rum.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by beardsworth »

XIII. Thou shalt remember that syntax can make a big difference in sentence meaning, so that thou shalt write "avoid (like the plague) limited-time offers" instead of "avoid limited-time offers (like the plague)." Unless thou truly meaneth that the plague itself was a limited-time offer.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by Ron Scott »

beardsworth wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:44 pm XIII. Thou shalt remember that syntax can make a big difference in sentence meaning, so that thou shalt write "avoid (like the plague) limited-time offers" instead of "avoid limited-time offers (like the plague)." Unless thou truly meaneth that the plague itself was a limited-time offer.
I am reminded of Churchill's retort when he was criticized for using a dangling participle: "That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put!"

BTW, you concluded your own comment with a sentence fragment, an ironic grammatical faux pas. You would do better to separate the statements with a comma--or even the popular "--".

(In case you were wondering, I did copy the commandment verbatim, to avoid a different set of improprieties, but your point is well-taken; grammatical correctness advances clear communication.)
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by beardsworth »

Ron Scott wrote: BTW, you concluded your own comment with a sentence fragment, an ironic grammatical faux pas. You would do better to separate the statements with a comma--or even the popular "--".
I pleadeth guilty. I dideth it for ye olde dramatic effect.
Ron Scott wrote: (In case you were wondering, I did copy the commandment verbatim.
I dideth not doubt it. My tongue-in-cheek comment addresseth the original source.
ron Scott wrote: I am reminded of Churchill's retort when he was criticized for using a dangling participle: "That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put!"
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by LadyGeek »

Let's get back on-track. I retitled the thread.

Here's the link: Here are Allan Roth's Ten Commandments of Money, authored by none other than Allan Roth.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by retiredjg »

Here's a previous article by Allan Roth on the same subject. Good for him - I admire his candor.

https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/in ... anner.html
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments

Post by Ron Scott »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:44 am Let's get back on-track.
As you wish, Lady...

From my perspective, the point is this: AARP, like most others who observe the plight of today's investor with her interests in mind and little skin in the game, rightfully conclude the investment industry is ridden with charlatans, who are more interested in EXTRACTING wealth from their "clients" than in providing honest investment advice to help them BUILD wealth.

The fact that they offer a 2-page piece on the subject, condemning those who sell investment vehicles from 10 angles, puts a warranted exclamation point on the subject.

Before I went DIY with Vanguard I spent a couple years with a Goldman sub. I was inundated with pitches for everything from limited private equity funds to custom annuities to high-fee mutuals. I never took any of their advice and stuck with low cost bonds and an S&P500 fund. My "advisor" said to me one day "I admire your sticktoitiveness, but why are you with Goldman?" Why indeed. I started the transfer the next week.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by Alan S. »

XI - "Thou shalt consider your payment of the AARP membership fees in the same light as I-X and be aware the "RP" in the AARP name has not stood for "retired persons" since 1999 when the membership age was reduced to 50."
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by FactualFran »

XI. Thou shalt not do business with an organization that wastes money and material by sending unsolicated mail to you for many years, even though you have never expressed any interest in being a member.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by adamthesmythe »

IIIa. But there IS a free investment seminar dinner. Don't go.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by Ron Scott »

FactualFran wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:22 pm XI. Thou shalt not do business with an organization that wastes money and material by sending unsolicated mail to you for many years, even though you have never expressed any interest in being a member.
But then how would we know how John Travolta go the part for Gotti or whether Rosanne and Tom spend any quality time together???

Anyway, it's not MY magazine... I saw it at a friends house. Really.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by TravelforFun »

'III. Thou shalt remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.'

I've been to many nice and free lunches and dinners and haven't been reeled in yet. They're great opportunities to learn and exchange ideas.

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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by beardsworth »

TravelforFun wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:28 pm 'III. Thou shalt remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.'

I've been to many nice and free lunches and dinners and haven't been reeled in yet. They're great opportunities to learn and exchange ideas.

TravelforFun
Well, a figurative or theoretical free lunch is different from a literal free lunch. For the latter, perhaps the following modification?

Thou shalt remember not to buy the time share, or sign up with the financial "advisor" working on commission, after thy "free" lunch. :)
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Allan Roth's "Ten Commandments of Money"--general wisdom

Post by nisiprius »

[merged this and its replies into the existing topic - moderator prudent]

Ten Commandments of Money (AARP)
Image
Not specifically investing, and nothing too new, and I don't particularly care for the "ten commandments" gimmick but still a good article. Each point is so succinct they are hard to "summarize," but I particularly liked:

"III. Thou shalt remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. I mean that literally. The next time someone invites you to a meal so you can learn about a new way to protect or increase your wealth, politely decline."

"V. Thou shalt not ever believe thou art too smart to fall for bad investments.... Sir Isaac Newton, for instance, lost a fortune investing in England’s hottest stock — the South Sea Company."

"VI. Thou shalt not accept the stated word but instead always get it in writing."

With regard to that last one, I think it's awfully important, and it's important that what matters most is the writing part. You don't need to be a lawyer, it's not as if you were necessarily going to test it in a court of law, and it doesn't need to be signed in ink, an email will do. It helps in several ways. First, it tends to expose BS. You just don't know what the reaction will be. Sometimes I've had the person say "Oh, sure," and I say "well, if I scribble this sentence on a Post-It will you sign it?" and they've signed it. Other times they've kind of flipped out, which is unpleasant. But my life experience has been, uniformly, that if people are not trying to fool you and there really is a meeting of the minds, they are willing to put it in writing.

Second, it is very helpful in situations where someone really does promise you something, and then two weeks later you are dealing with someone else for whatever reason (e.g. the person who made the promise is on vacation or has left the company). It makes a huge difference if they can tell that someone really made the promise, as opposed to your engaging in wishful thinking.

(P.S. As the associations of "thou shalt" even understood by millennials, since even translations as "modern" as 1946 all say "you shall?")
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Re: Allan Roth's "Ten Commandments of Money"--general wisdom

Post by JPH »

The link was a little hard to find. Any way you could edit that?
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Re: Allan Roth's "Ten Commandments of Money"--general wisdom

Post by Kenkat »

Nice touch on the Charlton Heston image...
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by SGM »

retiredjg wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:52 am Here's a previous article by Allan Roth on the same subject. Good for him - I admire his candor.

https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/in ... anner.html
This is a much better article than the ten commandments article.


In the earlier article Allan Roth exposes some of the bogus certifications that planners can pay for. He also exposes some of the incentives in the industry that make it dangerous to follow a financial advisor blindly.
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Re: AARP: 10 Commandments [of Money, by Allan Roth]

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Allan Roth is one of the "good guys". He's a fee-only advisor and a true Boglehead.

Allan has participated as a member of the Q&A with the Experts Panel at previous Bogleheads Conferences and he'll be with us again at the 2018 Bogleheads Conference in Philly in October.
















a
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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