Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

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JHU ALmuni
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Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by JHU ALmuni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:34 am

Currently I work in a bank as a Vice President. I love my job but it doesn't provide exposure to other areas I'm interested in. A recruiter reached out to me regarding an opportunity at another bank that will provide me with the opportunity to gain the experience I'm looking for. The thing is the new position is at Assistant Vice President level (I don't have enough experience to be considered at a VP level in the new bank). I will be getting paid a little more but the new bank is in a higher cost of living area, so no real increase in pay. I would like to change jobs to gain the experience I'm looking for but going from VP to AVP is the only thing holding me back.

Would you change jobs to lower title for the experience? Any other suggestions? Ideally after gaining the experience I'm looking for I should be able to find a higher paying job with a better title.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:36 am

What would you do if the "titles" were disregarded?

The long term bigger picture is about your skillsets, experience, etc. -- what you can bring to a career wherever you go. "Titles" are only part of a resume.

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NextMil
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by NextMil » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:38 am

Yes, I would do it in a heartbeat. Onward and upward. You can easily explain it if you get questions on it in the future.
Last edited by NextMil on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

il0kin
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by il0kin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:39 am

I recently did, but it was an internal transfer and I went from a senior analyst (level II) to a junior analyst (level I) because I totally transferred work areas into a new position where I am learning totally new skills (SQL coding and database analysis). It was worthwhile to me because my pay did not change, I was topped out in my old position and the skills I am learning now are in high demand and I’m very interested in them.

If it’s the same old same old type of stuff and and you’re not hurting for work or unhappy at your current place, I don’t think I would bother.

cherijoh
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by cherijoh » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:42 am

JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:34 am
Currently I work in a bank as a Vice President. I love my job but it doesn't provide exposure to other areas I'm interested in. A recruiter reached out to me regarding an opportunity at another bank that will provide me with the opportunity to gain the experience I'm looking for. The thing is the new position is at Assistant Vice President level (I don't have enough experience to be considered at a VP level in the new bank). I will be getting paid a little more but the new bank is in a higher cost of living area, so no real increase in pay. I would like to change jobs to gain the experience I'm looking for but going from VP to AVP is the only thing holding me back.

Would you change jobs to lower title for the experience? Any other suggestions? Ideally after gaining the experience I'm looking for I should be able to find a higher paying job with a better title.
What experience do you lack to be a VP at the new bank? Is it a years in job kind of thing or is there a hard skill that you are lacking? Are you currently at a "Community" or "Regional" bank? How is the new bank classified - Community, Regional, or National?

jebmke
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by jebmke » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:48 am

I made a decision early in my career to never take or decline a job strictly for title or money. Some of my best jobs were developmental in nature and served me well my entire career.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:52 am

Dollars you can spend, titles, not so much.

Bottom line the new job gives you the experience you are seeking, so if you are truly desiring the exposure, I would certainly accept the new position.

In my MegaCorp career I sometimes had weird titles mainly to access higher pay bands. Mattered not to me.

Hopefully the new job will give you an opportunity to gain knowledge and ultimately further your career.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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Watty
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by Watty » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:59 am

In talking with people who work at banks they sort of joked about the way banks use the job title "Vice President" or the variations of it and at some banks way too many people have Vice President in their job title.

One thing I would look at is how many people you will have that work under you in both the old and new positions.

I knew someone that worked at a bank and the answer to that was "none" and it was pretty clear that their Vice President job title was pretty meaningless and was just used to try to impress customers or vendors so they would not insist on talking with some who had more authority.
Last edited by Watty on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

inbox788
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by inbox788 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:00 am

Would you change your title FROM CEO to Senior Vice President for a 3X salary increase?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Ahrendts

How much bigger is the pond you're thinking of heading into? 2X? 10X? more?

sport
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by sport » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:02 am

Since your present job is at a bank, and the job you are considering is also at a bank, is it possible for you to get the kind of experience you want at your present employer? If so, you might get to keep the title and get the experience. In my experience (not banking) my employer valued employees with experience in multiple areas of the company.

JHU ALmuni
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by JHU ALmuni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:07 am

cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:42 am
JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:34 am
Currently I work in a bank as a Vice President. I love my job but it doesn't provide exposure to other areas I'm interested in. A recruiter reached out to me regarding an opportunity at another bank that will provide me with the opportunity to gain the experience I'm looking for. The thing is the new position is at Assistant Vice President level (I don't have enough experience to be considered at a VP level in the new bank). I will be getting paid a little more but the new bank is in a higher cost of living area, so no real increase in pay. I would like to change jobs to gain the experience I'm looking for but going from VP to AVP is the only thing holding me back.

Would you change jobs to lower title for the experience? Any other suggestions? Ideally after gaining the experience I'm looking for I should be able to find a higher paying job with a better title.
What experience do you lack to be a VP at the new bank? Is it a years in job kind of thing or is there a hard skill that you are lacking? Are you currently at a "Community" or "Regional" bank? How is the new bank classified - Community, Regional, or National?
Is it a years in job kind of thing or is there a hard skill that you are lacking? Years in job, they want 7+ years and I have 4.
Are you currently at a "Community" or "Regional" bank? How is the new bank classified - Community, Regional, or National? Both banks are large international banks.

JHU ALmuni
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by JHU ALmuni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:08 am

sport wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:02 am
Since your present job is at a bank, and the job you are considering is also at a bank, is it possible for you to get the kind of experience you want at your present employer? If so, you might get to keep the title and get the experience. In my experience (not banking) my employer valued employees with experience in multiple areas of the company.

That would be ideal, the thing is I don't see openings at my current bank in the department I'm interested in.

JHU ALmuni
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by JHU ALmuni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:11 am

Watty wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:59 am
In talking with people who work at banks they sort of joked about the way banks use the job title "Vice President" or the variations of it and at some banks way too many people have Vice President in their job title.
That's very true, seems like one third of the bank employees hold VP title. Right now I have no direct reports and it will be same at the new bank.

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simplesimon
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by simplesimon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:14 am

JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:08 am
sport wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:02 am
Since your present job is at a bank, and the job you are considering is also at a bank, is it possible for you to get the kind of experience you want at your present employer? If so, you might get to keep the title and get the experience. In my experience (not banking) my employer valued employees with experience in multiple areas of the company.

That would be ideal, the thing is I don't see openings at my current bank in the department I'm interested in.
If the pay and banks are similar, I'd try to negotiate for the VP title when you get to that point but wouldn't turn it down. Do you already have an offer?

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Watty
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by Watty » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:15 am

In an odd sort of way having the lower job title could work out to be to your advantage since if you get promoted in a few years to full VP then you would likely get a nice bump in pay.

JHU ALmuni
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by JHU ALmuni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:17 am

simplesimon wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:14 am
JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:08 am
sport wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:02 am
Since your present job is at a bank, and the job you are considering is also at a bank, is it possible for you to get the kind of experience you want at your present employer? If so, you might get to keep the title and get the experience. In my experience (not banking) my employer valued employees with experience in multiple areas of the company.

That would be ideal, the thing is I don't see openings at my current bank in the department I'm interested in.
If the pay and banks are similar, I'd try to negotiate for the VP title when you get to that point but wouldn't turn it down. Do you already have an offer?
No, no offer yet. Just starting the process and I wasn't sure if I want to make this move or not. But based on the feedback I'm getting I will continue in the hiring process.

new2bogle
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by new2bogle » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:17 am

My DW did that when she moved from a small regional bank to Wells Fargo, though her title change was from "branch manager" to "lead personal banker" (or something like that - it was a while ago). Pay and benefits went up drastically at Wells Fargo and so did advancement opportunities. It opened up doors she otherwise would not have had (like going CFP route, etc).

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Post by aspirit » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:20 am

"Pulleese" do not let titles influence your decisions. My reading your inquiry suggests you'll increase the tools in your toolbag like your trying to do if you take the job. It will be a learning experience. I'd suggest you do just that. Good Luck!
Last edited by aspirit on Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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123
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by 123 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am

From my discussions with some friends over time I have gathered that the whole banking world seems to have an extraordinary preoccupation with titles. I have one friend who was a vice president (I'm sure one of thousands) at a large bank who had a job offer from another company for a 50% salary gain. He asked everyone if we thought it would be okay to give up the "vice president" title for a 50% salary gain elsewhere. We told he would be crazy not to take the 50% gain. After much personal soul searching he decided to take the offer. Now when he looks back at his days in banking he often says that in retrospect the preoccupation with titles in banking careers is pretty silly.
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sport
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by sport » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:41 am

JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:08 am
sport wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:02 am
Since your present job is at a bank, and the job you are considering is also at a bank, is it possible for you to get the kind of experience you want at your present employer? If so, you might get to keep the title and get the experience. In my experience (not banking) my employer valued employees with experience in multiple areas of the company.

That would be ideal, the thing is I don't see openings at my current bank in the department I'm interested in.
If the culture at your employer permits, you do not have to wait for an opening. You could talk to the executive in charge of that area and express an interest in "joining his team". If that person wants you, they can tell you when the next opening will occur, or they can even create an opening for you.

cherijoh
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by cherijoh » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:55 am

JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:07 am
cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:42 am
JHU ALmuni wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:34 am
Currently I work in a bank as a Vice President. I love my job but it doesn't provide exposure to other areas I'm interested in. A recruiter reached out to me regarding an opportunity at another bank that will provide me with the opportunity to gain the experience I'm looking for. The thing is the new position is at Assistant Vice President level (I don't have enough experience to be considered at a VP level in the new bank). I will be getting paid a little more but the new bank is in a higher cost of living area, so no real increase in pay. I would like to change jobs to gain the experience I'm looking for but going from VP to AVP is the only thing holding me back.

Would you change jobs to lower title for the experience? Any other suggestions? Ideally after gaining the experience I'm looking for I should be able to find a higher paying job with a better title.
What experience do you lack to be a VP at the new bank? Is it a years in job kind of thing or is there a hard skill that you are lacking? Are you currently at a "Community" or "Regional" bank? How is the new bank classified - Community, Regional, or National?
Is it a years in job kind of thing or is there a hard skill that you are lacking? Years in job, they want 7+ years and I have 4.
Are you currently at a "Community" or "Regional" bank? How is the new bank classified - Community, Regional, or National? Both banks are large international banks.
OK, that raises the question - are there other possibilities at your current bank that would give you the exposure for which you are looking? That is, they have the role you want but it isn't currently an open position? I would be more hesitant to jump ship for effectively no increase in purchasing power than over some title. Especially if you have to wait 3 years to get the salary bump (assuming it is tied to the title). What if you relocate and then you hate the new job or the new location?

Have you considered asking your manager for additional exposure to other areas of the bank? Are there any employee networks that would help your mobility at your current bank? IMO it is tougher to change employers and roles simultaneously since you have to learn both the job and the culture at the same time vs. moving to a new role at your current employer or moving to a similar role at a new employer.

il0kin
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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by il0kin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:19 am

If you have no direct reports, then go for it. Vice Presidents at my employer report to the C-Suite and each VP usually has at least 100 employees under them with cascading titles below them being Director > Assistant Director or Manager > Supervisor > individual contributors. I thought you were at this level, not an individual contributor. As an individual contributor, I see no reason not to move if it fits your career goals. I have a family member who works in banking and the AVP/VP titles are hilarious to me, seems there are more "Vice Presidents" than worker bees! :oops:

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Re: Thoughts on changing job to lower title for the experience?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:34 am

123 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am
From my discussions with some friends over time I have gathered that the whole banking world seems to have an extraordinary preoccupation with titles. I have one friend who was a vice president (I'm sure one of thousands) at a large bank who had a job offer from another company for a 50% salary gain. He asked everyone if we thought it would be okay to give up the "vice president" title for a 50% salary gain elsewhere. We told he would be crazy not to take the 50% gain. After much personal soul searching he decided to take the offer. Now when he looks back at his days in banking he often says that in retrospect the preoccupation with titles in banking careers is pretty silly.
Between my wife and me, we have worked for 9 banks (fwiw, international investment banks for the most part). The titles have ranged from Associate, Assistant Vice President, Vice President, Director, Managing Director, Senior Vice President, to Executive Vice President. Each bank treated the titles differently, e.g., Managing Director was usually a tough title to achieve, with a lot of vetting and peer voting, but one bank seemed to hand it out like candy on Halloween.

The short advice is "fuggedaboudit." Go for the work that enriches you, in all meanings of the word "enrich."

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