Tried ILL state - flunked out with a 0.25 GPAks289 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:30 pmI agree with you more than you realize. I don't think I would want my son to attend an Ivy League school (assuming he could actually get in) for a variety of reasons, but I see the benefit for certain students.stoptothink wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:39 amPretty comprehensive review of my personal thoughts on the matter. IMO, the most pertinent statement:timmy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:25 pm https://www.brookings.edu/articles/who-needs-harvard/
"The Gotta-Get-Ins can no longer claim to be the more or less exclusive gatekeepers to graduate school. Once, it was assumed that an elite-college undergraduate degree was required for admission to a top law or medical program. No more: 61 percent of new students at Harvard Law School last year had received their bachelor’s degrees outside the Ivy League. “Every year I have someone who went to Harvard College but can’t get into Harvard Law, plus someone who went to the University of Maryland and does get into Harvard Law,” Shirley Levin says. For Looking Beyond the Ivy League, Pope analyzed eight consecutive sets of scores on the medical-school aptitude test. Caltech produced the highest-scoring students, but Carleton outdid Harvard, Muhlenberg topped Dartmouth, and Ohio Wesleyan finished ahead of Berkeley..."
I have anecdotes for days regarding this, including my own life story.
Personally, Pope's gatekeeper argument is not very compelling. His Harvard Law numbers actually bolster the case for attending a selective school. My medical school class (from 20+ years ago) also had about 40% from Ivy League schools (as mentioned for Harvard Law). That's actually a huge percentage since we haven't even counted Stanford, MIT, Duke, UMichigan, Cal, Johns Hopkins, or the top liberal arts colleges. The idea that attending an Ivy League school GUARANTEES a top graduate school is a joke. Nobody in this day and age should believe that.
Moreover, are you sure your personal thoughts match up to Loren Pope's contentions?
His book and organization advocate for small, selective, liberal arts schools-not large universities with 30,000 undergraduates. His Myth #4 and chapter "Why Small is Best" in his book specifically criticizes big universities for large class sizes, focus on research, and poor access to courses and faculty. The small schools he mentioned for high MCAT scores are also pretty expensive (tuition $50,000+), and some including Carleton do NOT offer merit scholarships.
This is actually where I sort of agree with Pope and could see a good fit with my kids --schools with very small class sizes (500 or so) with a dedication to undergraduate education.
Tried Ohio state spent 3 years as an average student amassing 2 years worth of credit. Only did decent when I went to an extension and had classes with 15 or less students
Transferred to Roanoke College(fits your small college criteria) got my BBA and largest class had 15 students. MY investments class had 8 and and 2 3 summer classes with 3 students in each class. Every professor in the business department knew who I was. Not once did I have anyone less than a Phd teaching me a class. Well I take that back, my Business Law teacher was a sitting judge and my commercial banking teacher was a high ranking executive at First Union bank.
I digress. A friend of mine went to W&L and was in a summer class with 3 students. We went to visit him and hit it pretty hard on a Thursday night and he didn't get around to reading his assignment(a George Will article) carefully. Shows up to class hung over and guess who is sitting up front with the professor. George Will! YOu can't skate by when people know who you are or have small classes.