Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc)

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A-Commoner
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by A-Commoner » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:12 am

Getting a W2 job isn’t the only desirable utilitarian outcome of an education. Self-employment/entrepreneurship is another utilitarian outcome. An English degree doesn’t stop anyone from pursuing self-employment. Writing books is one such avenue.

Lynette
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by Lynette » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:30 am

Utility over utopia is difficult to define as an objective for life especially for an 18-year old. During a 50+ year career, all that I have seen is constant change, need to adapt, relearn and scrounge to remain employed. In the mid nineties, I was laid off in iT at a Megacorp as were many with good degrees in computer science. Many gave up and did not try to get other jobs. The skills of some with good technical degrees were useful to the Megacorp but not easily transferable to another company. My constant refrain is perseverance in looking for a job, relearn and scrounging. A broad general education or English major doesn't hurt. Its perseverance, willingness to relearn and scrounging to find the right fit that helps fund one's expenses.
Last edited by Lynette on Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

stoptothink
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by stoptothink » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:42 am

A-Commoner wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:12 am
Getting a W2 job isn’t the only desirable utilitarian outcome of an education. Self-employment/entrepreneurship is another utilitarian outcome. An English degree doesn’t stop anyone from pursuing self-employment. Writing books is one such avenue.
Does having an education really improve your chances of being a successful entrepreneur? Again, more anecdotes, but out of the most successful entrepreneurs I know, I can think of few that have any college education. And do most successful writers, or even a significant amount of them, have an English degree? I'd love to see some real data, any data, to suggest that "education" (in this context) improves outcomes when it comes to anything you said.

A-Commoner
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by A-Commoner » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:56 am

Having an education is not a disadvantage in pursuing entrepreneurship. Neither is an English degree a disadvantage when writing a book.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by KlangFool » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:35 am

A-Commoner wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:56 am
Having an education is not a disadvantage in pursuing entrepreneurship. Neither is an English degree a disadvantage when writing a book.
A-Commoner,

1) But, it may not provide sufficient advantage for the price that one had paid. The ROI may not be there.

2) If the college education costs nothing in term of time and money, then, it may not have to justify itself. Otherwise, it has to be compared against all other possible alternatives.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by snowman » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am

Back to regularly scheduled programming...

The short answer to OP is no – average kids do not receive merit aid. The bulk of merit scholarships goes to the top kids, and it quickly tapers off from there. It’s how schools compete for best students. You don't recruit average, unless the bulk of your students are below average.

Discussions about Ivy schools are non-relevant in this context. Average student will not even be considered for admission.

Also, as others already pointed out, with your expected salary and NW, you would be considered affluent or very affluent in the eyes of all colleges, not any version of middle class you personally think you belong to. So your financial need would be non-existant, except for schools like Ivies which would still offer aid but like I said, average student is not going to be admitted so it’s a non-issue.

The good news is that you have high income and time to save, so you will be able to afford it. Also, there is a very good chance your kids will end up being way above average, and will qualify for merit aid. You will have options, and you will see them more clearly as college application time approaches.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by goodenyou » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:11 pm

The absolute worse thing a high-income family (that wants to shield their kids from education debt) can do is not to save early for their kid's college education. They find out too late that there is little merit money out there, and their superstar child may not be so super after all. They will often be paying full-freight with no "free" money. Many will feel compelled to make the disastrous financial decision of borrowing money to meet the immediate need. This is often late in their careers (50's), when they should be saving for retirement. I have seen this many many times in my social circle. Really stupid.
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by CnC » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:06 pm

goodenyou wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:11 pm
The absolute worse thing a high-income family (that wants to shield their kids from education debt) can do is not to save early for their kid's college education. They find out too late that there is little merit money out there, and their superstar child may not be so super after all. They will often be paying full-freight with no "free" money. Many will feel compelled to make the disastrous financial decision of borrowing money to meet the immediate need. This is often late in their careers (50's), when they should be saving for retirement. I have seen this many many times in my social circle. Really stupid.
One question just to play devil's advocate. If you are able to save for your kids college you are sacrificing your retirement. Money is fluid 1 dollar saved in this bucket is 1 dollar that can't be saved in another.

If my retirement account is completely filled by 50 why don't just pay for the schooling with my spare cash then?

Sure there is a bit of tax savings but there are other risks.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by ncbill » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:34 pm

PatrickA5 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:31 pm
DS had good HS grades (around 4.0), but only above average ACT. Top private school in area was giving $15K "scholarships" to anybody that qualified to get into the school (which he would have), bringing the cost down to around $40K per year. He ended up going to state university ($20K per year). From there he got a free Tshirt and a nice water bottle. Wasted our time filling out FAFSA the first year. Our expected contribution was $70K.
Same for our last kid, heading off this fall (similar grades/ACT)

All their private schools were around $50K/year, most offering $10-$15K off, a couple of the less competitive $25K off.

They will be attending their first choice of private schools, but only thanks to a ROTC scholarship.

Otherwise it would have been us parents paying for an in-state school.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:39 pm

As a reminder, here is the OP's question:
novemberrain wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:11 pm
Hello,

Assumptions
1. my kids grow up to be average " students.
2. We are an upper middle class family when my kids apply for college (i.e. a few million dollar net worth).
3. Have some 529 balances. Say $75k each kid

Do kids like these typically get any "free" money from colleges or any other organizations ?
Please stay on-topic.

Update: An off-topic post was removed.
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:13 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:39 pm
As a reminder, here is the OP's question:
novemberrain wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:11 pm
Hello,

Assumptions
1. my kids grow up to be average " students.
2. We are an upper middle class family when my kids apply for college (i.e. a few million dollar net worth).
3. Have some 529 balances. Say $75k each kid

Do kids like these typically get any "free" money from colleges or any other organizations ?
Please stay on-topic.
Your kid can apply for scholarships - not all scholarships revolve around "merit", there are scholarships for sports, extracurriculars, etc. Those scholarships may be offered from social organizations such as Lions Club, etc. and no, they don't look at your net worth or how much is in a 529 plan before they offer it, they solely focus on the achievements of the student applying. The amounts could be small, most will be in the $500 to $1-$2K amounts. From the colleges, eh.....not so much and if they do, there is an example in a recent NYT article (look up Ron Lieber ~ think he wrote it in Your Money section) how the schools tend to either offer the same amount and/or charge the same list so in the end, you are either paying the same as if you attended another school and/or a state school. No real discounting you may think you'd get otherwise.
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staythecourse
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by staythecourse » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:39 pm
As a reminder, here is the OP's question:
novemberrain wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:11 pm
Hello,

Assumptions
1. my kids grow up to be average " students.
2. We are an upper middle class family when my kids apply for college (i.e. a few million dollar net worth).
3. Have some 529 balances. Say $75k each kid

Do kids like these typically get any "free" money from colleges or any other organizations ?
Please stay on-topic.
Well I guess the thread is done then. To answer the questions based on the review of replies...

1. You kid has to be in the top 1% of applicants. "Above average" is NOT 1%.
2. You are not upper middle class. Thanks to ?Livesoft for better informing us of the cutoffs. BTW, we should sticky that or add it to the wiki so folks are more accurate on where they fall on the socioeconomic level.
3. Should have saved A LOT more.

The reality is unless you are truly special (that means someone ELSE is groveling at your door to get you into the college) you better save early and often. OR as another poster earlier stated there is no "have to go to x". Just slide down the ladder of academic excellence in colleges until you find one you are top 1% of whatever.

Good luck.
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by navyitaly » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Military service worked for me! Military doesn’t care what your background is! Service academies or ROTC scholarship!

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by livesoft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:24 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm
2. .... Thanks to ?Livesoft for better informing us of the cutoffs. BTW, we should sticky that or add it to the wiki so folks are more accurate on where they fall on the socioeconomic level.
Careful. Those numbers were qualified numbers as shown directly in the screen capture: "based on the national distribution for families with college-age children." That means that the numbers exclude MOST families from the calculations. For instance, a rough guess would suggest that it excludes all families with parents under about 35 years old plus many other families.
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teen persuasion
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by teen persuasion » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:54 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:24 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm
2. .... Thanks to ?Livesoft for better informing us of the cutoffs. BTW, we should sticky that or add it to the wiki so folks are more accurate on where they fall on the socioeconomic level.
Careful. Those numbers were qualified numbers as shown directly in the screen capture: "based on the national distribution for families with college-age children." That means that the numbers exclude MOST families from the calculations. For instance, a rough guess would suggest that it excludes all families with parents under about 35 years old plus many other families.
The article also mentioned that they used "modified net worth".
(“Modified net worth” excludes retirement accounts, as most colleges do when calculating financial aid.)
I had trouble placing our family in a single category in that chart. Our income put us at one end, while our equity and savings placed us several categories higher, even if we exclude retirement accounts. Very depressing if "average" families are really that low in equity/EF/investments at those incomes.

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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by goodenyou » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:47 am

CnC wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:06 pm
goodenyou wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:11 pm
The absolute worse thing a high-income family (that wants to shield their kids from education debt) can do is not to save early for their kid's college education. They find out too late that there is little merit money out there, and their superstar child may not be so super after all. They will often be paying full-freight with no "free" money. Many will feel compelled to make the disastrous financial decision of borrowing money to meet the immediate need. This is often late in their careers (50's), when they should be saving for retirement. I have seen this many many times in my social circle. Really stupid.
One question just to play devil's advocate. If you are able to save for your kids college you are sacrificing your retirement. Money is fluid 1 dollar saved in this bucket is 1 dollar that can't be saved in another.

If my retirement account is completely filled by 50 why don't just pay for the schooling with my spare cash then?

Sure there is a bit of tax savings but there are other risks.
It’s about priorities. The point is to make it a priority to fund both early, if you have the means and you are planning to pay (in full) for your kid’s education. Some very high earners can do both simultaneously especially the ones that don’t consume their high earnings along the way. The ones that get burned are the poorly prepared that were expecting merit money for their “exceptional” student. When the student doesn’t qualify for meritorious aid, the cost of private education becomes another luxury cost that can only be immediately met with loans.
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Re: Do average kids from upper middle class families get any free college money (Scholarships / non-repayable grants etc

Post by teacher » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:52 am

California has a "Middle Class Scholarship".
The Middle Class Scholarship (MCS) provides undergraduate students, including students pursuing a teaching credential, with family incomes and assets up to $171,000 a scholarship to attend University of California (UC) or California State University (CSU) campuses.
http://www.csac.ca.gov/middle-class-scholarship

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