Executor - Vanguard

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Mitchell777
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:32 am

Executor - Vanguard

Post by Mitchell777 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:08 am

Just looking for confirm something. I just spoke to Vanguard regarding Trust Services, specifically Trustee, Executor, and POA. I was told they will act as Trustee for the investments, but not Executor or POA. Last time I had my will updated (several years ago) my attorney spoke to them and was under the impression they would act as Executor but not POA. Only reason I am asking here is my call this morning included about 20 minutes on hold and a refusal to allow me speak directly to someone in the Trust Dept. Has anyone broached the subject of Executor with Vanguard Trust Services? Thanks

Gill
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by Gill » Mon May 14, 2018 9:25 am

They don’t act as executor or POA.
Gill

RudyS
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by RudyS » Mon May 14, 2018 2:54 pm

If no-one can speak to the Trust Department, how does anyone utilize it? Something missing.

afan
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by afan » Mon May 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Vanguard says on their site that they will not serve as executor.
I have not seen them comment directly on POA, but others have said they do not do this.

On such a question I would take Gill's word as authoritative.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

Good Listener
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by Good Listener » Mon May 14, 2018 7:29 pm

I have a Special Needs Trust that I set up for my special needs daughter. It is currently unfunded (it is a beneficiary of my taxable account) , but I had my lawyer put in all the language Vanguard wanted. I dealt extensively with the Trust Department at Vanguard which is how I learned of all their requirements. They sent me an email confirming that my Trust met their requirements. They will not serve as executor or POA. They will serve as Trustee but really prefer another family member as co Trustee if possible.

Gill
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by Gill » Mon May 14, 2018 7:44 pm

In all my years in the trust business associated with five major corporate fiduciaries, I never knew of any that would accept a POA from a client. We often performed much of the same function as trustee of a RLT, a much better and well defined relationship.
Gill

afan
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by afan » Tue May 15, 2018 12:33 pm

The problem comes when there are retirement assets. There is no way to get them into the trust will the grantor is alive. That means someone would need to serve as attorney in fact if the person cannot or does not want to manage the retirement funds themselves. I could understand someone wanting the same fiduciary that handled their RLT also having POA.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

Mitchell777
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:32 am

Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by Mitchell777 » Tue May 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Appreciate the responses. Finding a firm to invest money if one is incapacitated in not difficult. Not saying there is no difference in who you choose. However finding a person or firm to handle Executor or POA is not easy if you have no children or younger relatives. The friend I considered using died last week so I'm looking for a firm or attorney, I guess, to do it. We've had several situations in my area with attorneys caught dealing inappropriately with funds for special needs, or other type, trusts, so I'm hesitant about using an attorney.

afan
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by afan » Tue May 15, 2018 4:32 pm

Hoping Gill will comment, but I think serving as executor, for a price, is something corporate fiduciaries usually do. It is just Vanguard that will not do it.

POA is another matter.

If I did not have an individual I could trust and the need would be at some undefined time in the future I would probably prefer a trust department to an attorney. Individual attorneys retire, law firms sometimes dissolve or get out of the estate planning business. A trust department is much more likely to stick around and this work is right up their alley.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

Gill
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Re: Executor - Vanguard

Post by Gill » Tue May 15, 2018 5:37 pm

afan wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:32 pm
Hoping Gill will comment, but I think serving as executor, for a price, is something corporate fiduciaries usually do. It is just Vanguard that will not do it.

POA is another matter.

If I did not have an individual I could trust and the need would be at some undefined time in the future I would probably prefer a trust department to an attorney. Individual attorneys retire, law firms sometimes dissolve or get out of the estate planning business. A trust department is much more likely to stick around and this work is right up their alley.
Yes, virtually all corporate fiduciaries act as personal representative of estates (executor), but Vanguard has chosen to limit themselves to acting as trustee. I would guess the reason is their inability to qualify as PR in all states because they only have the one office in PA.

You are correct that corporate fiduciaries offer perpetual existence, financial responsibility, group judgment, impartiality, accessibility as well as collective experience. There is no other entity or person that can offer the same.
Gill

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