Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

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Powerfultools
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Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Powerfultools » Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 am

Hi Bogleheads,

I am shopping for my mother’s medigap insurance. She turns 65 this month. I narrowed the choices to policy G. My question is, if the insurance company offering Medigap Policy G goes bankrupt or ends through no fault of hers, will she have guaranteed issue rights to purchase another policy G through another insurance company? I assumed she would, but I noticed policy G is not guaranteed issue according to statement below per Medicare.gov. Am I reading this correctly? If so, what’s everyone’s plan “b”? Thank you all in advance.


Per Medicare website:
“Your Medigap insurance company goes bankrupt and you lose your coverage, or your Medigap policy coverage otherwise ends through no fault of your own.
You have the right to buy Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in your state.

You can/must apply for a Medigap policy no later than 63 calendar days from the date your coverage ends.”

Raabe34
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Raabe34 » Mon May 07, 2018 11:19 am

That is my understanding also and the more likely option to me is that they cancel medigap policies in a state or just period. I don't know if a company has ever done that but that seems like a possibility to me. The government has been pretty decent with those issues on health insurance ones that failed mid year recently.

gizzsdad
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by gizzsdad » Mon May 07, 2018 11:28 am

Not sure why Plan G is not listed. Perhaps because Plan F is the most popular and most comprehensive, it is listed while it is still available. Maybe when F is discontinued, it will be replaced by G?

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon May 07, 2018 11:45 am

This is just a typo/oversight. The rule applies to all plans.

Powerfultools
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Powerfultools » Mon May 07, 2018 11:58 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 11:45 am
This is just a typo/oversight. The rule applies to all plans.
I just call Medicare. CS said only Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L get guaranteed issue right. I ask her why and she said she didn’t know.

Is there a big book of rules/policies somewhere explaining Medicare supplements completely, the “fine print” version. CS put me on hold for 5 minutes, then basically repeated what was on the website. I don’t want to make a decision, without understanding what I (my mother) is purchasing. Am I being difficult? I sure hate assuming things...

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Learn something new every day. Apparently plans D, G, M, N do not have guaranteed issue rights.

Kind of strange because the only difference between Plans C -> D and F -> G are the Medicare Part B deductible. Especially, considering that Plans C & D can not be sold to new enrollees starting 1/1/2020.

P.S. Based I my last sentence, I did a little research. It would appear that Plans D, G and G high deductible will be getting guaranteed issue rights for new enrollees after 1/1/2020.

Model 651 regulations approved by CMS and published in the Federal Register.

Section 9.2.C Guaranted Issue for Eligible Persons. For purposes of Section 12.E, in the case of any individual newly eligible for Medicare on or after January 1, 2020, any reference to a Medicare supplement policy C or F (including F with High Deductible) shall be deemed to be a reference to a Medicare supplement policy D or G (including G with High Deductible), respectively, that meet the requirements of this section 9.2A

Section 12.E Products to Which Eligible Persons are Entitled. The Medicare supplement policy to which eligible persons are entitled persons are entitled under:

Powerfultools
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Powerfultools » Mon May 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm
Learn something new every day. Apparently plans D, G, M, N do not have guaranteed issue rights.

Kind of strange because the only difference between Plans C -> D and F -> G are the Medicare Part B deductible. Especially, considering that Plans C & D can not be sold to new enrollees starting 1/1/2020.

P.S. Based I my last sentence, I did a little research. It would appear that Plans D, G and G high deductible will be getting guaranteed issue rights for new enrollees after 1/1/2020.

Model 651 regulations approved by CMS and published in the Federal Register.

Section 9.2.C Guaranted Issue for Eligible Persons. For purposes of Section 12.E, in the case of any individual newly eligible for Medicare on or after January 1, 2020, any reference to a Medicare supplement policy C or F (including F with High Deductible) shall be deemed to be a reference to a Medicare supplement policy D or G (including G with High Deductible), respectively, that meet the requirements of this section 9.2A

Section 12.E Products to Which Eligible Persons are Entitled. The Medicare supplement policy to which eligible persons are entitled persons are entitled under:
Thanks for information, Spirit Rider.

I guess there is not much to act on. So, for the record, Plan G does not have guaranteed issue rights.
So my plan for my mother is go with plan G, stay healthy, and try to get plan G reissued in 2020 once guaranteed issue rights are added to plan G. Plan G high deductible looks interesting as well if it priced appropriately.

Any thoughts, anyone?

I also noticed this:

“1 Consistent with the last sentence of section 9.1.E.(7) of the NAIC Model, states may permit the sale of Plan G With High Deductible to an individual who is not a “newly eligible Medicare beneficiary.” However, a State's failure to adopt this sentence and provide this option does not affect the State's compliance with Federal Medigap standards and requirements.”

So there might be opportunity, I guess.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm

Powerfultools wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 2:14 pm
Spirit Rider wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm
Section 9.2.C Guaranted Issue for Eligible Persons. For purposes of Section 12.E, in the case of any individual newly eligible for Medicare on or after January 1, 2020, any reference to a Medicare supplement policy C or F (including F with High Deductible) shall be deemed to be a reference to a Medicare supplement policy D or G (including G with High Deductible), respectively, that meet the requirements of this section 9.2A
I guess there is not much to act on. So, for the record, Plan G does not have guaranteed issue rights.
So my plan for my mother is go with plan G, stay healthy, and try to get plan G reissued in 2020 once guaranteed issue rights are added to plan G. Plan G high deductible looks interesting as well if it priced appropriately.
My reading of newly eligible, is that it would not seem apply to someone already enrolled.

Also, in all the time of me hearing people enrolling in Plan G, I never heard of this issue coming up. We have a lot of forum members with Plan G. Maybe they can comment.

Powerfultools
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Powerfultools » Mon May 07, 2018 4:54 pm

Can an individual who has plan G today -not guaranteed issue- switch to plan F -has guaranteed issue- (of course meeting medical underwriting requirements). Wouldn’t new plan F with new insurance company will have guaranteed issue rights in case insurance Company B goes bankrupt or ends no fault of your own.

Is this thinking correct?

Mitchell777
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Mitchell777 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm
Learn something new every day. Apparently plans D, G, M, N do not have guaranteed issue rights.

Kind of strange because the only difference between Plans C -> D and F -> G are the Medicare Part B deductible. Especially, considering that Plans C & D can not be sold to new enrollees starting 1/1/2020.
I thought only Plan F was going away for new enrollees in 2020. So C and D are also going away for new enrollees?

sand-in-my-toes
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by sand-in-my-toes » Mon May 07, 2018 7:04 pm

I am interested in this issue, too, since I will turn 65 in 2019. My intent has been to get a Plan G Medigap policy (plus Plan D drug plan) but I am befuddled by the wording on Medicare.gov about what happens when you move out of state (I live in PA near Pittsburgh and could move to VA in my dotage to be close to my son). Medicare is rather vague in its wording with statements like you might pay more for the same Medigap plan in a new area (I'd be okay with this) and you might have to answer some questions about your health (what does this mean?). I would be interested in hearing what forum members who have made permanent moves on a Medigap plan have encountered.

If indeed it comes to pass in 2020 that plan G is added to the list of plans with guaranteed issue rights for new plan members after a move if you are on a Medicare Advantage plan and are leaving the service area, I might be better off getting a UPMC MA PPO plan now and getting a Plan G or Plan N in VA down the road with no medical underwriting. I don't know, maybe I am overthinking this and fretting too much....I have UPMC private insurance now through my former employer and I am very happy with it.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon May 07, 2018 7:15 pm

Mitchell777 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 5:29 pm
Spirit Rider wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm
Learn something new every day. Apparently plans D, G, M, N do not have guaranteed issue rights.
nt plan
Kind of strange because the only difference between Plans C -> D and F -> G are the Medicare Part B deductible. Especially, considering that Plans C & D can not be sold to new enrollees starting 1/1/2020.
I thought only Plan F was going away for new enrollees in 2020. So C and D are also going away for new enrollees?
No, Plans C, F and F high deductible are going away. Plan D, G and the new G high deductible will be the equivalent plans less Part B deductible.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon May 07, 2018 7:24 pm

sand-in-my-toes wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:04 pm
If indeed it comes to pass in 2020 that plan G is added to the list of plans with guaranteed issue rights for new plan members after a move if you are on a Medicare Advantage plan and are leaving the service area, I might be better off getting a UPMC MA PPO plan now and getting a Plan G or Plan N in VA down the road with no medical underwriting. I don't know, maybe I am overthinking this and fretting too much....I have UPMC private insurance now through my former employer and I am very happy with it.
It appears from the regulations that plans D, G and G high deductible are getting guaranteed issue, but only for new enrollees >= 1/1/2020

My reading of the regulations, is that if you enrolled in Medicare prior to 1/1/2020, you are not entitled to guaranteed issue rights on those plans. Also, Plan N has not changed, it will continue to not have guaranteed issue rights.

This is all tentative we will probably not know the details until shortly before 2020. Even if I have interpreted the regulations correctly, these are the minimum that issuers are required to follow. They can and may offer people the option to change without medical underwriting. Some insurance carriers do it now in certain circumstances.

It may not help with planning, but sometimes the best answer is, you have to just wait and see. 2020 is not that far away, but Medicare and the insurance industry have been silent on these issues.

MtnBiker
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by MtnBiker » Mon May 07, 2018 8:57 pm

Powerfultools wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 am
Hi Bogleheads,

I am shopping for my mother’s medigap insurance. She turns 65 this month. I narrowed the choices to policy G. My question is, if the insurance company offering Medigap Policy G goes bankrupt or ends through no fault of hers, will she have guaranteed issue rights to purchase another policy G through another insurance company? I assumed she would, but I noticed policy G is not guaranteed issue according to statement below per Medicare.gov. Am I reading this correctly? If so, what’s everyone’s plan “b”? Thank you all in advance.


Per Medicare website:
“Your Medigap insurance company goes bankrupt and you lose your coverage, or your Medigap policy coverage otherwise ends through no fault of your own.
You have the right to buy Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in your state.

You can/must apply for a Medigap policy no later than 63 calendar days from the date your coverage ends.”
Not sure what the problem is. As you quoted from the Medicare website, all medigap plans, including Plan G, have guarantee issue to buy another plan if a certain qualifying event occurs (such as if you lose coverage due to no fault of your own). (If you want to switch plans without a qualifying event, you may be asked to submit to a medical underwriting process and you could be denied coverage or charged a higher rate based on health conditions.)

Apparently as it stands today, if I lose my Plan G due to the extremely unlikely circumstance that my insurance company leaves the lucrative medigap market, I can chose a replacement from any Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in my state, regardless of health or pre-existing conditions. If the qualifying event occurs after the switchover (1/1/2020), C and F will no longer be options, but I fully expect those options to be replaced by D and G.

Powerfultools
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Powerfultools » Tue May 08, 2018 2:48 pm

MtnBiker wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:57 pm
Powerfultools wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 am
Hi Bogleheads,

I am shopping for my mother’s medigap insurance. She turns 65 this month. I narrowed the choices to policy G. My question is, if the insurance company offering Medigap Policy G goes bankrupt or ends through no fault of hers, will she have guaranteed issue rights to purchase another policy G through another insurance company? I assumed she would, but I noticed policy G is not guaranteed issue according to statement below per Medicare.gov. Am I reading this correctly? If so, what’s everyone’s plan “b”? Thank you all in advance.


Per Medicare website:
“Your Medigap insurance company goes bankrupt and you lose your coverage, or your Medigap policy coverage otherwise ends through no fault of your own.
You have the right to buy Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in your state.

You can/must apply for a Medigap policy no later than 63 calendar days from the date your coverage ends.”
Not sure what the problem is. As you quoted from the Medicare website, all medigap plans, including Plan G, have guarantee issue to buy another plan if a certain qualifying event occurs (such as if you lose coverage due to no fault of your own). (If you want to switch plans without a qualifying event, you may be asked to submit to a medical underwriting process and you could be denied coverage or charged a higher rate based on health conditions.)

Apparently as it stands today, if I lose my Plan G due to the extremely unlikely circumstance that my insurance company leaves the lucrative medigap market, I can chose a replacement from any Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in my state, regardless of health or pre-existing conditions. If the qualifying event occurs after the switchover (1/1/2020), C and F will no longer be options, but I fully expect those options to be replaced by D and G.
Thanks MtnBiker.

The only problem was that one could not choose plan N again. I was trying to understand why.

The plan now is to choose an insurance company that has an A rating and has some history in my state. We will see what 2020 brings. :sharebeer

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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Wed May 09, 2018 7:27 am

sand-in-my-toes wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:04 pm
I am interested in this issue, too, since I will turn 65 in 2019. My intent has been to get a Plan G Medigap policy (plus Plan D drug plan) but I am befuddled by the wording on Medicare.gov about what happens when you move out of state (I live in PA near Pittsburgh and could move to VA in my dotage to be close to my son).
I moved from VT to NY a few years ago, no problem keeping my VT F, high deductible plan.

https://medicare.com/medicare-supplemen ... -of-state/
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robertalpert
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by robertalpert » Wed May 09, 2018 7:35 am

Plan G is only guaranteed issue once in a lifetime --- when you first turn age 65. You can still apply for G anytime later, but will experience medical underwriting.

Mitchell777
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Mitchell777 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:09 am

Are there published rules regarding medical underwriting, or is it whatever the insurance carrier decides? Everyone I know personally in my area is signing up for Plan F as we reach 65 this year. I'd prefer F also with one major concern. In 2020 the youngest and healthiest people in Plan F will be 65 years old. Ten years later the youngest and healthiest will be 75. As prices increase the healthiest people may leave for another cheaper plan, those not healthy cannot leave due to medical underwriting, accelerating the rate of cost increases to the plan.

gizzsdad
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by gizzsdad » Wed May 09, 2018 8:13 am

Actually most carriers will let you change to another, less comprehensive plan, without underwriting. If my mom wanted to move from Plan F to Plan G, she could do it at anytime with no underwriting.

khh
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by khh » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:57 pm

MtnBiker wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:57 pm
Apparently as it stands today, if I lose my Plan G due to the extremely unlikely circumstance that my insurance company leaves the lucrative medigap market, I can chose a replacement from any Medigap Plan A, B, C, F, K, or L that’s sold by any insurance company in my state, regardless of health or pre-existing conditions. If the qualifying event occurs after the switchover (1/1/2020), C and F will no longer be options, but I fully expect those options to be replaced by D and G.
My Plan G says it is guaranteed renewable for life. My understanding was that the only way an insurer could get out of their obligation is bankruptcy. You might check to see if your plan has such a provision.

Edit: Two other relevant threads => viewtopic.php?t=254311and here => viewtopic.php?t=254350

FBN2014
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:22 am

It's important to go with a company that has a high rating by Standard & Poor, AM Best, Comdex. Guaranteed issue is applicable only during a 7 month window, 3 months before your birthday month, your birthday month, and the 3 months following your birthday month. If you enroll outside this period then you have to through medical underwriting. Same for choosing a drug plan. An independent agent can tell you the carriers in your zip code that are available. Part G is the best plan in my opinion and most cost effective. DON'T go with a Medicare Advantage plan! The premiums are lowest and you will love that until you have a serious illness and find out that the MA plan won't pay. Send me a message if you want a recommendation on independent agents who sell Supplement plans.
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Eureka
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Eureka » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:12 am

I’d love to know if a company selling Medicare supplement plans has ever gone bankrupt, because I believe my agent said it has never happened. If that’s the case, you could do a whole lot of worrying for nothing.

Regarding insurance company rating agencies, I believe some rated AIG AAA right up to the day it was on the brink of collapse.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:14 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:22 am
Same for choosing a drug plan.
Not true. No medical underwriting is required to change a Part D plan every year during the open enrollment period.

drawpoker
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Re: Medicare supplement policy G -does it offer guaranteed issue rights if insurance company goes bankrupt or ends?

Post by drawpoker » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Eureka wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:12 am
I’d love to know if a company selling Medicare supplement plans has ever gone bankrupt, because I believe my agent said it has never happened...............
Regarding insurance company rating agencies, I believe some rated AIG AAA right up to the day it was on the brink of collapse.
Couldn't find a recent Medicare supplement company that fits the bill.
Will you (& your agent) settle instead for a Medicare Advantage company bankruptcy?

http://www.morrisanderson.com/resource- ... portunity/

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