What career for smartest kid in the class?

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Doroghazi
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What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Doroghazi »

I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. If I were doing it now, I would choose a career other than Medicine. The average med school debt is $195,000, and we have turned physicians into professional students. If you start med school at age 25 and want to be a Cardiology subspecialist, you could be elected President of the United States before you could sit for your Board exams.
A contemporary who went to Law School could be partner before a physician finishes trainng. MBAs do even better.They could make $1,000,000 and hold a responsible, or even prominent position, while a physician is in the financial purgatory of training.
If you were the smartest kid in the class, who could do whatever you want, what career would you choose? I would be an MBA.
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Sandtrap
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Sandtrap »

Some "smartest kids in the class" *end points, that I have known through the years. Most all retired.

1. Aeronautical Engineer
2. Priest
3. CPA
4. Plumber with plumbing company
5. Financial advisor (yep)
6. University professor
7. Various mix of medical, law.
8. Businessman
9. Military officers, retired.
10. World travelers and "seekers".

FWIW: the "smartest kid" can either have the highest GPA, or, the highest IQ. Not necessarily both.

aloha
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The529guy
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by The529guy »

You use the word “could” a lot.
Last edited by The529guy on Sun May 06, 2018 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
amitb00
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by amitb00 »

Medicine (Physician as well as Surgeons) is a great career provided one is motivated enough to spend years in studies and training. Rewards will pay it over. Average doctor makes decent money. $200K is not a big deal for non specialist. Most specialists will make north of $400K. Now it is difficult for a doctor to make north of a million dollars. In case of engineers/MBAs/Lawyers more folks make more than million dollar but most folks make in the range of 100-200K. So if you want an assured minimum of 400K, being an MD is more sure shot. If you want to take chances, go in other professions.
Also remember in other fields you compete with a foreign professional head on. Your jobs are also at risk of going off shore. Medicine is relatively recession proof. Being a non doctor, I will steer my kids to medicine.
Last edited by amitb00 on Sun May 06, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TheNightsToCome
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

Doroghazi wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:04 pm I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. If I were doing it now, I would choose a career other than Medicine. The average med school debt is $195,000, and we have turned physicians into professional students. If you start med school at age 25 and want to be a Cardiology subspecialist, you could be elected President of the United States before you could sit for your Board exams.
A contemporary who went to Law School could be partner before a physician finishes trainng. MBAs do even better.They could make $1,000,000 and hold a responsible, or even prominent position, while a physician is in the financial purgatory of training.
If you were the smartest kid in the class, who could do whatever you want, what career would you choose? I would be an MBA.
But an MBA isn't a career.

An MBA can prepare you for consulting, or I-banking, or investment management, or a career in marketing, etc. It may help you achieve a goal, but it doesn't guarantee a big income or a satisfying career.

If you are the smartest (and most driven) kid in the class, and your goal is money, then Big Law, Big 3 Consulting, or investment banking will probably work out better than medicine, but those jobs are generally up-or-out and the lifestyle will probably be just as awful as cardiology. Many burn out before the big payday. You'll find many affluent and miserable people in those careers.

I am a current cardiologist and erstwhile healthcare equity analyst with an MBA from a school that was rated #1 in the US by Businessweek and #1 in the world by the Financial Times or The Economist (can't remember which) while I was there.

Medicine is more secure than most jobs, it's intellectual, and we can feel good about our work -- a feeling you might not enjoy in some other careers.

The grass always looks greener in the next yard, but I've been there too. There are good and bad aspects in everything.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by corn18 »

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Alexa9
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Alexa9 »

However you get to be a CEO. Lots of connections and social IQ. Excellent schmoozer and decision maker.
For the book smart - maybe software or biochemical engineering entrepreneur.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by mouses »

I would get a job in a field I was interested in, regardless of what it paid, assuming I could live on the salary, which is what I did with one bad exception. Going after just money is a sure way to waste one's life.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by KlangFool »

Doroghazi wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:04 pm I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. If I were doing it now, I would choose a career other than Medicine. The average med school debt is $195,000, and we have turned physicians into professional students. If you start med school at age 25 and want to be a Cardiology subspecialist, you could be elected President of the United States before you could sit for your Board exams.
A contemporary who went to Law School could be partner before a physician finishes trainng. MBAs do even better.They could make $1,000,000 and hold a responsible, or even prominent position, while a physician is in the financial purgatory of training.
If you were the smartest kid in the class, who could do whatever you want, what career would you choose? I would be an MBA.
Doroghazi,

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

Calvin Coolidge
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/calv ... dge_414555

There are many millionaires in my family. Some graduated from the top schools with graduate degrees. Some never enter high school.

The only constant among them are

A) They are persistent.

B) They are frugal.

<<I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. >>

My older brother and older sister early retired at 49 years old.

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triceratop
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by triceratop »

Why do so many of the answers focus on money almost immediately? Isn't the real answer that the smartest kid should do whatever career they feel they will succeed in and enjoy fulfillment? After all, they are the smartest kid in the class.
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cherijoh
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by cherijoh »

I think there is a lot of selection bias with MBAs. I think a lot of really successful MBAs would have been just as successful in business without the MBA. A lot of people who get an MBA will never see the financial rewards of an average doctor. Especially anyone who gets an MBA strictly because they think it will boost their salary prospects.

Personally, i think the sweet spot is to find something that you will enjoy doing long term that pays enough to give you an acceptable standard of living and that allows you to put sufficient money away to retire comfortably. If they enjoy math & science, a degree in a STEM field would be a good place to start.
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JPH
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by JPH »

To be successful and happy in medicine, you must love studying the field as well as doing the work. If you suffer the training just to be able to do the work, you are missing a lot. The half life of knowledge is too short not to be a lifelong "professional student" of medicine.
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dustinst22
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by dustinst22 »

I'd always choose what I'm passionate about. Choosing a career based solely on earning potential sounds like a depressing life. Plus, often passion will equate to high earnings. It's difficult (impossible?) to master any career without having a true love for it.

That said, if I were choosing solely based on earning potential, I'd go into artificial intelligence likely. Or genetic engineering, which might be the next big economy.

With automation, the skills that are going to be the most valuable in the future are problem solving, critical thinking, creativity, and general people/communication skills. This might sound counter intuitive from a financial perspective, but if money were not a pressing issue, I'd do a 4 year degree at a strong liberal arts school to gain these skills, then specialize in a field in graduate school. A person who can think broadly and solve problems based on a broad education is already in very high demand right now. This is going to be much more future proof than someone with merely technical skills in a narrow field. Plus, having a high quality broad education increases the enjoyment of living in my opinion.
Last edited by dustinst22 on Sun May 06, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 7 times in total.
finite_difference
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by finite_difference »

1. Cancer research/immunotherapy.
2. Robotics.
3. Aerospace.
4. Quantum computing.
5. Artificial intelligence.
6. Vaccine development (Zika, AIDS, etc.)
7. Antibiotics.
8. Self-driving cars.
9. Electrical and electro-optical engineering.
10. Curing incurable diseases (Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, etc.)
11. CO2 removal/reduction technology.

Those are some areas where we need our smartest folks.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
katnok
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by katnok »

I'm a Pediatrician, and certainly do not want my kids to become doctors.

I love being a Pediatrician, but it's disheartening to see how many non-doctors with as little as 27 months of ONLINE training and 1-year of clinical rotations are being allowed to see children. To make things worse, these people can get another ONLINE degree in 12months while working full-time, and call themselves doctors. There's no question quality of care is not at the center of everyone that employs "providers" that received their degree online. Money is all that matters. Most parents/patients have no clue whether they are seeing a real doctor or not, but when they get a medical bill, they are paying the same as they would have paid if they saw a physician.

Everyone, except the physicians, have a say in how a healthcare system is supposed to run, and whether quality of care is being provided or not.
smitcat
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by smitcat »

I would agree that an MBA is not a career - I would do what you are passionate about.
Are you passionate about your current business?

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jminv
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by jminv »

I started out at a liberal arts college, decided that wasn't for me, and transferred to an engineering school. I graduated, worked overseas, became a professional engineer, learned I was good at management and had a lot of successes early on I wouldn't have had domestically, and then later went back for a MBA (also overseas) using it to transition to higher level management and then consulting (again, overseas). I had a lot of challenges and unpleasant periods in between. It hasn't been anything close to a perfect path but I'm happy. Both the engineering degree and MBA were good choices even if it was a more round about way of getting to where I am now, which is mid-30s and trialing retirement.

My father was a physician and I will admit I did consider following in his footsteps. I decided against it because it wasn't particularly interesting to me, he had regrets in his career choice, the training period was an excessive barrier (which is one of the attractions in that it limits supply), and I realized I could advance myself faster doing something else. I also didn't want to stay in something for a 30+ year career so that excluded other professions that I might have been interested in.

I think it's perfectly possible to be happy in just about any profession but a lot of it is about mindset. Even though I went down the path that I did, I know I could have been happy along many other paths. If I were to do it all again, I would choose to be an entrepeneur but I'm not going to dwell on that. In fact, if I wanted, I could do that now. You can also still change your path, it's never really too late for a new direction.
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FreeAtLast
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by FreeAtLast »

katnok wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:43 pm I'm a Pediatrician, and certainly do not want my kids to become doctors.

I love being a Pediatrician, but it's disheartening to see how many non-doctors with as little as 27 months of ONLINE training and 1-year of clinical rotations are being allowed to see children. To make things worse, these people can get another ONLINE degree in 12months while working full-time, and call themselves doctors. There's no question quality of care is not at the center of everyone that employs "providers" that received their degree online. Money is all that matters. Most parents/patients have no clue whether they are seeing a real doctor or not, but when they get a medical bill, they are paying the same as they would have paid if they saw a physician.

Everyone, except the physicians, have a say in how a healthcare system is supposed to run, and whether quality of care is being provided or not.
Katnok -

Please clarify. I assume you are referring to Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants?

Thanks,
Free
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rcjchicity
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by rcjchicity »

triceratop wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:30 pm Why do so many of the answers focus on money almost immediately? Isn't the real answer that the smartest kid should do whatever career they feel they will succeed in and enjoy fulfillment? After all, they are the smartest kid in the class.
Reading OP's post initially, it does seem to focus on a high income career as the definition of a successful one, but the essence of the question resonated with me.

Using proxies as markers that I was probably that "smartest kid in the class" (valedictorian & National Merit Scholar), and that I was good at math and science, medicine seemed like the only career path for me to consider. It wasn't until my junior year of college when I had signed up for the MCAT but had no desire to study for it, that I decided I was only pursuing medicine due to external expectations (or my projections of those expectations).

I picked pharmacy instead to stay in the healthcare realm, but I still don't think it's been a good choice for me (16 years in...)

A broader consideration of career paths would have probably done me some good, rather than following the notion that the smart kid becomes a doctor.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by golfCaddy »

Be a movie/tv star or professional athlete. No college is required, so you can get a near infinite ROI. Most people going to law school don't get jobs at big law. Of those who get jobs in big law, the percent who make equity partner will be in the low single digits. Among the top 50 law schools, maybe 30% land big law jobs and of those maybe, 5-10% make partner, so maybe 1-3% of grads at top 50 law schools will make equity partner at a large firm.
Last edited by golfCaddy on Sun May 06, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
katnok
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by katnok »

FreeAtLast wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 3:00 pm
katnok wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:43 pm I'm a Pediatrician, and certainly do not want my kids to become doctors.

I love being a Pediatrician, but it's disheartening to see how many non-doctors with as little as 27 months of ONLINE training and 1-year of clinical rotations are being allowed to see children. To make things worse, these people can get another ONLINE degree in 12months while working full-time, and call themselves doctors. There's no question quality of care is not at the center of everyone that employs "providers" that received their degree online. Money is all that matters. Most parents/patients have no clue whether they are seeing a real doctor or not, but when they get a medical bill, they are paying the same as they would have paid if they saw a physician.

Everyone, except the physicians, have a say in how a healthcare system is supposed to run, and whether quality of care is being provided or not.
Katnok -

Please clarify. I assume you are referring to Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants?

Thanks,
Free
1. An example of an 100% online 2-year Family Nurse Practitioner degree https://nursing.columbusstate.edu/fnp.php
2. An example of 100% online 1-year DNP degree for NPs https://www.samford.edu/nursing/dnp
3. While there are some good programs, a lot of new NPs are coming out of these online programs (so called diploma mills), and are being pushed by their NP organizations to actively lobby for independent practice at the cost of patient care. Many of these courses also teach lobbying as part of their curriculum, something doctors never taught. They want everyone to get a doctorate, so patients will have no idea if they are physicians or not.
4. There are a good number of ERs and urgent cares that are replacing physicians with NPs and PAs for the sake of saving money.
5. A few years ago, one hospital in upstate NY ran an entire ER with NPs and PAs until things couldn't get any worse.
6. Physicians who speak up and question the care provided by poorly trained NPs and PAs are labelled problem physicians and risk losing their employment.
golfCaddy
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by golfCaddy »

Shouldn't this be in investing theory? There doesn't appear to be any personal relevance to the OP's situation at 54.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Doroghazi wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:04 pm I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. If I were doing it now, I would choose a career other than Medicine. The average med school debt is $195,000, and we have turned physicians into professional students. If you start med school at age 25 and want to be a Cardiology subspecialist, you could be elected President of the United States before you could sit for your Board exams.
A contemporary who went to Law School could be partner before a physician finishes trainng. MBAs do even better.They could make $1,000,000 and hold a responsible, or even prominent position, while a physician is in the financial purgatory of training.
If you were the smartest kid in the class, who could do whatever you want, what career would you choose? I would be an MBA.
Hi Robert. Thanks for your book; it's great.

I'd do medicine again, but I was never the smartest kid in the class, at least at any point after elementary school.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Orthopedic surgeon
Forest ranger
Gas station chain owner
Franchisee for McDonalds and/or Dunkin Donuts
You need common sense and passion to run a business, you don’t need an MBA.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by bsteiner »

amitb00 wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:20 pm Medicine (Physician as well as Surgeons) is a great career provided one is motivated enough to spend years in studies and training. Rewards will pay it over. Average doctor makes decent money. $200K is not a big deal for non specialist. Most specialists will make north of $400K. Now it is difficult for a doctor to make north of a million dollars. In case of engineers/MBAs/Lawyers more folks make more than million dollar but most folks make in the range of 100-200K. So if you want an assured minimum of 400K, being an MD is more sure shot. If you want to take chances, go in other professions.
Also remember in other fields you compete with a foreign professional head on. Your jobs are also at risk of going off shore. Medicine is relatively recession proof. Being a non doctor, I will steer my kids to medicine.
Excellent points. While the highest earning lawyers and corporate executives earn more than most doctors, the average doctor earns more than the average lawyer who earns more than the average person in business. That makes sense - the average doctor was probably a better student than the average lawyer who was probably a better student than the average person in business.

The top athletes and entertainers earn even more than doctors.

If you're a top student (or even if you're not a top student) you should probably do what you want to do and try to become good at it.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by EnjoyIt »

I do not know of any job out there that guarantees a reasonable to very good income that is recession proof other than physician. Yes, being a doctor is hard, yes many don't appreciate you, and there are tons of other more lucrative professions. But strictly talking about money, none of those professions are guaranteed. Most of those other professions listed with $500k+ incomes are rare in the bunch. Not every MBA becomes a CEO or fund manager. Not every lawyer partners with a mega corp.

Next, it should not all be about money. If one goes into medicine solely for the cash, they will be very sad in their profession and very likely burn themselves out. Maybe even retire from cardiology at 54. But, such is the case of any job including corporate law, CEO, fund manager, etc.... I am in my 40s, love practicing medicine and have no interest of retiring. Semi-retire absolutely, only because I enjoy the practice so much more when I have plenty of days off to enjoy other aspects of my life. But retire fully is not for me.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Balefire »

KlangFool wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:29 pm
Calvin Coolidge
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/calv ... dge_414555

KlangFool
Thanks for quote. Never heard it before but agree with it.

My kids do very well in school.
I encourage them to pursue whatever dream they have including medicine.
Hopefully their talent and hard work in whatever dream they chose will be rewarded with financial happiness as well.

I find alot of the negativism towards medicine is from older folks that long for simpler more lucrative days of old medicine.

My younger subspecialty colleagues that I interact with daily in contrast seem to enjoy medicine as much as I do.
It is very rewarding and I have no desire to retire early from it.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by TierArtz »

Whatever would making a living wage, they had the aptitude for, motivation to achieve, and a good chance of loving.

I'm in a tangent of medicine and love what I do. The folks I work with and admire have backgrounds in genetics, biochemistry, immunology, and toxicology. A motivated college graduate with a desire to work hard in those fields would do well.
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by KlangFool »

Balefire wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 4:10 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:29 pm
Calvin Coolidge
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/calv ... dge_414555

KlangFool
Thanks for quote. Never heard it before but agree with it.

My kids do very well in school.
I encourage them to pursue whatever dream they have including medicine.
Hopefully their talent and hard work in whatever dream they chose will be rewarded with financial happiness as well.

I find alot of the negativism towards medicine is from older folks that long for simpler more lucrative days of old medicine.

My younger subspecialty colleagues that I interact with daily in contrast seem to enjoy medicine as much as I do.
It is very rewarding and I have no desire to retire early from it.
Balefire,

<<I encourage them to pursue whatever dream they have including medicine.>>

The medical field is not my cup of tea.

<<Hopefully their talent and hard work in whatever dream they chose will be rewarded with financial happiness as well.>>

Hope is not needed for financial security. It is very simple and hard to do. Save 1 year of current annual expense every year. Do it long enough, you will achieve Financial Independence.

You only need one word for happiness: enough.

KlangFool
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ClevrChico
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by ClevrChico »

I'll toss technology into the career hat. Lots of upward mobility potential. A bachelors (or less) will get talented folks into an upper middle class salary. You can design your own job as you see fit. (Hours, remote work, travel, independent contracting, etc.)
Last edited by ClevrChico on Sun May 06, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GCD
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by GCD »

Balefire wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 4:10 pm
I find alot of the negativism towards medicine is from older folks that long for simpler more lucrative days of old medicine.
I'm good friends with a family where the dad was a GP and 5 of 7 sons became doctors. The other 2 became lawyers. Dad says he never would have gone into medicine if he had to put up with the xyz of today. The sons, now older, are starting to say the same thing.

I know a lot of lawyers who say the same thing.

A lot of people go into a career without really knowing what it is about. Unrealistic expectations abound. Disenchantment follows. Seems to happen in many fields. Including fighter pilots who are unhappy when they have to promote out of flying or can't get sufficient flight hours.

OP probably could have done anything and ended up with wistful thoughts.
LFKB
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by LFKB »

A lot of the most talented students today are going to where the highest compensation is, which is finance (i baking, private equity, hedge funds) and tech start ups. There are still plenty of smart kids going into medicine and law, but it seems like lower numbers of the top tier students do each year.
rongos
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by rongos »

We need more smart people in politics.
finite_difference
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by finite_difference »

KlangFool wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:29 pm
Doroghazi wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:04 pm I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. If I were doing it now, I would choose a career other than Medicine. The average med school debt is $195,000, and we have turned physicians into professional students. If you start med school at age 25 and want to be a Cardiology subspecialist, you could be elected President of the United States before you could sit for your Board exams.
A contemporary who went to Law School could be partner before a physician finishes trainng. MBAs do even better.They could make $1,000,000 and hold a responsible, or even prominent position, while a physician is in the financial purgatory of training.
If you were the smartest kid in the class, who could do whatever you want, what career would you choose? I would be an MBA.
Doroghazi,

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

Calvin Coolidge
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/calv ... dge_414555

There are many millionaires in my family. Some graduated from the top schools with graduate degrees. Some never enter high school.

The only constant among them are

A) They are persistent.

B) They are frugal.

<<I retired from Cardiology 13 years ago at age 54. >>

My older brother and older sister early retired at 49 years old.

KlangFool
In terms of B) Calvin Coolidge also had the ultimate Bogleheads quote:

“There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.”

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/calv ... dge_390997

I would argue that have a passion (or mission) helps to develop determination, and that a good environment at home or at school or college helps to develop passion.

Determination or persistence does not spring up by itself, but is connected to belief or faith (not necessarily religious.)
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
coachd50
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by coachd50 »

katnok wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:43 pm I'm a Pediatrician, and certainly do not want my kids to become doctors.

I love being a Pediatrician, but it's disheartening to see how many non-doctors with as little as 27 months of ONLINE training and 1-year of clinical rotations are being allowed to see children. To make things worse, these people can get another ONLINE degree in 12months while working full-time, and call themselves doctors. There's no question quality of care is not at the center of everyone that employs "providers" that received their degree online. Money is all that matters. Most parents/patients have no clue whether they are seeing a real doctor or not, but when they get a medical bill, they are paying the same as they would have paid if they saw a physician.

Everyone, except the physicians, have a say in how a healthcare system is supposed to run, and whether quality of care is being provided or not.
Sounds exactly like education, with the exception that physicians make substantially more money than educators. But line by line, many if not most educators would say
" I am an Educator, and certainly do not want my kids to become educators"
I love being an educator, but it is disheartening to see how many non-teachers with as little as 5 WEEKS of training (summer institute) are allowed to teach a classroom full of children. To make things worse, these people can quickly advance up the education heirarchy (the State Superintendent of Education for Louisiana is a Teach For America with about 3 years of classroom teaching experience before leaving the classroom and becoming a "mentor and coach" for other teachers).

There is no question that quality of education is not at the center of everyone who controls educational policy. Money is all that matters. Most parents/students hae no clue whether the students are being taught by someone who completed a University teacher education program, or not...but when they pay their tax bill they are funding education the same.

Everyone, except educators, has a a say in how education is run and whether a high quality education is being provided or not.
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bottlecap
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by bottlecap »

Accounting.

Take a look at what accounting professors get paid in Tennessee by going to the link and clicking on the salary column:

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/dat ... 2AG7229617

But more to the point, even the smartest people should do what they want to do.

JT
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Watty
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Watty »

What career for smartest kid in the class?
Within reason it would be best to encourage the kid to go into the field that they have a natural inclination for and might be somewhat naturally good at.

I was a software developer before I retired and I saw a number of people that tried doing that because someone had steered them into computers because it had a reputation as being a good career.

If that was not their natural inclination they rarely become more than adequate and often they were pretty poor programmers.

They were also usually pretty miserable working in that field if they lasted very long.
6 dollar ribs
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by 6 dollar ribs »

Anything highly technical and important to the economy that the student finds interesting.
staythecourse
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by staythecourse »

What does the kid want to do at least in the broader sense? Meaning folks who are good in medicine are RARELY if EVER have a mental aptitude for business. A risk taker is rarely going to be interested in going into a long schooling+ residency situation and having to listen to authoritative figures tell them what to do for a decade plus which is the norm in medicine.

I can give you my perspective... I am a doc married to a doc and both of our parents are docs, but don't want my kids to go into medicine. I want them personally to be their own boss and be an entrepreneur. This way the have FULL autonomy of their daily lives AND their success or failure is based on them and not OTHER folks (such as typical hospital middle management). They don't have to worry about finances with the likely inheritance they will receive if which is a BIG IF they become boglehead kids!!)

I have always said the problems with docs is they put a premium on $$$ and a discount on autonomy. There is no SUBSTITUTE for calling your own shots so no matter if the kids is the smartest or dumbest being your own boss is the way to go IF you can pull it off.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
bubbadog
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by bubbadog »

katnok wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:43 pm I'm a Pediatrician, and certainly do not want my kids to become doctors.

I love being a Pediatrician, but it's disheartening to see how many non-doctors with as little as 27 months of ONLINE training and 1-year of clinical rotations are being allowed to see children. To make things worse, these people can get another ONLINE degree in 12months while working full-time, and call themselves doctors. There's no question quality of care is not at the center of everyone that employs "providers" that received their degree online. Money is all that matters. Most parents/patients have no clue whether they are seeing a real doctor or not, but when they get a medical bill, they are paying the same as they would have paid if they saw a physician.

Everyone, except the physicians, have a say in how a healthcare system is supposed to run, and whether quality of care is being provided or not.
It seems like the trend is to replace physicians with "mid level providers" and then have one physician "supervise" those providers. I am seeing this in my area.

If my children decide to become physicians, I am going to strongly encourage them to stay away from fields that this can easily happen (peds, primary care).
arsenalfan
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by arsenalfan »

Whatever they find stimulating and can provide for the lifestyle they want.

I would do medicine all over again because I like caring for other people, the job security, and the compensation. In that order.

You seem to value compensation.If you value compensation above all else there are better options - MBA/commercial real estate/etc etc.
Last edited by arsenalfan on Sun May 06, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nate79
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Nate79 »

I'm not sure if it was implied or not but I disagree with the title of the thread. The smartest kid in the class didn't become a MD in the first place. The smartest and brightest became Phd's.

:sharebeer
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Doroghazi
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Doroghazi »

amitb00 wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:20 pm Medicine (Physician as well as Surgeons) is a great career provided one is motivated enough to spend years in studies and training. Rewards will pay it over. Average doctor makes decent money. $200K is not a big deal for non specialist. Most specialists will make north of $400K. Now it is difficult for a doctor to make north of a million dollars. In case of engineers/MBAs/Lawyers more folks make more than million dollar but most folks make in the range of 100-200K. So if you want an assured minimum of 400K, being an MD is more sure shot. If you want to take chances, go in other professions.
Also remember in other fields you compete with a foreign professional head on. Your jobs are also at risk of going off shore. Medicine is relatively recession proof. Being a non doctor, I will steer my kids to medicine.
The average physician in the US makes $250,000 per year. Of course one should pursue their passion, and few careers provide the instant respect of being a physician, but you must understand that the training periods are getting longer, and longer---and longer. What is frustrating is that these years are being added to training with little or no data to justify them, a sorry state for a field that (supposedly) prides itself on the scientific method.
KlangFool
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by KlangFool »

Folks,

If the goal is to make money, why spend the money in the first place?

My family member gave each one of his kids 200K before they graduated college. So, it does not matter what they do. They will be rich.

My kids save and invested their money before they graduated. They will have around 25K to 30K of investment after they graduated.

KlangFool
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triceratop
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by triceratop »

KlangFool wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 5:39 pm Folks,

If the goal is to make money, why spend the money in the first place?

My family member gave each one of his kids 200K before they graduated college. So, it does not matter what they do. They will be rich.

My kids save and invested their money before they graduated. They will have around 25K to 30K of investment after they graduated.

KlangFool
Who said the singular goal is to make money?
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
staythecourse
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by staythecourse »

rongos wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 4:32 pm We need more smart people in politics.
Not to deviate the topic, but would say we likely need more intelligent voters then politicians. It is natural for a politician to make their special interest groups happy as it means more money from them and their campaigns. What we need are voters who see that the politician no. 1 concern is NOT their constituents and quickly vote them out. You do that consistently and can tell you the same politicians will start doing right by the folks they are supposed to be representing. The problem has been going on for awhile that the voters will undoubtedly vote for the most high profile candidate (those that spend the most money) vs. those that really want to be the voice for their voting base.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
stoptothink
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by stoptothink »

arsenalfan wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 5:18 pm As you point out, if you value compensation above all else there are better options - MBA/commercial real estate/etc etc.
Possible compensation. As far as compensation guarantees, nothing comes close to medicine. Things may not be what they used to be in medicine, but the complaints about compensation are, ummm, interesting. Of the 10 highest paid career tracks, based upon median income, I believe 8 of them are in medicine.

I have had 3 of these "smartest kids in the class" types recently work for me. All perfect SAT/ACT score, national merit scholar, college valedictorians. 2 left for Stanford and Baylor med school (both on significant scholarship) while the 3rd (and IMO, the most brilliant) keeps telling me money isn't much of a concern, she has zero intentions of leaving and just wants to do research. We'll likely push her towards pursuing her PhD pretty soon because her value to our field is currently limited by how many letters she has attached to her name.

The great thing about being the smartest kid in the class is that you have options. On the other hand, having the highest intellectual/academic capacity doesn't mean you have the chops to be a success at everything. My genius geneticist would be absolutely lost focusing on business and she could likely get significant scholarships to any medical school of her choosing, but actually practicing medicine; I have my doubts.
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triceratop
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by triceratop »

I'll add that I was (in my opinion, and the stated opinion of my professors) the smartest kid in my high school / college classes and went the PhD route, possibly the professorship route but we'll see. The gratification one gets from original research that changes and enhances human understanding of our world is suited for some people.

I'll get back to the Bogleheads in 20 years with whether it was the right decision.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
GCD
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by GCD »

staythecourse wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 5:01 pm There is no SUBSTITUTE for calling your own shots so no matter if the kids is the smartest or dumbest being your own boss is the way to go IF you can pull it off.

Good luck.
I think this is definitely true with regard to how happy one is and how much job satisfaction they have. It seems the people who continue working past the point at which they can retire either own their own company or have reached the point at which they are unsupervised in an established company.

I know the happiest I ever was for pure job satisfaction was when I ran my own tree removal business. I went down another path after college, probably for the best. But I often missed being my own boss.
Loik098
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Re: What career for smartest kid in the class?

Post by Loik098 »

Self-employed.

It's one thing to love your work, but it's rare to find a job (or series of jobs, since no one stays put for very long anymore) where you love working for your employer or boss. Having to work for/with others you don't care for can fade one's love for the work itself. And then, what's the point of working?

The smartest of all of us should be able to work for themselves, in whichever field they choose.
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