Long term care insurance

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dknightd
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm

I'm trying to wrap my brain, and budget, around this.
It is expensive, and more troubling the premiums might go up when we get closer to maybe needing it.
I'm 60. Smoke and drink. Wife is 66, already had one stroke and now has a pace maker.
It appears that makes long term care insurance more expensive. Estimates are around $10k per year, depending on how much coverage we want.
Our current plan is that one of us would take care of the other if needed. If they needed assistance we could probably pay for a 1/2 time person out of pocket. The assumption is if one of us needs additional care, the other is likely to need no money for travel etc. So, as long as we are both alive, and one of us is still functional, we would be OK. After one of us passes, there will still most likely be some money in the retirement fund. I figure that, along with selling the house, would cover the remaining person for long enough.
I'm thinking we might be better off self insuring ourselves for this risk. As near as I can tell, I'm right on the balance of not needing long term care insurance, and not being able to afford it.

Is this stupid? If so, what am I missing?
Thanks
David

Jackson12
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Jackson12 » Sat May 05, 2018 7:24 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
I'm trying to wrap my brain, and budget, around this.
It is expensive, and more troubling the premiums might go up when we get closer to maybe needing it.
I'm 60. Smoke and drink. Wife is 66, already had one stroke and now has a pace maker.
It appears that makes long term care insurance more expensive. Estimates are around $10k per year, depending on how much coverage we want.
Our current plan is that one of us would take care of the other if needed. If they needed assistance we could probably pay for a 1/2 time person out of pocket. The assumption is if one of us needs additional care, the other is likely to need no money for travel etc. So, as long as we are both alive, and one of us is still functional, we would be OK. After one of us passes, there will still most likely be some money in the retirement fund. I figure that, along with selling the house, would cover the remaining person for long enough.
I'm thinking we might be better off self insuring ourselves for this risk. As near as I can tell, I'm right on the balance of not needing long term care insurance, and not being able to afford it.

Is this stupid? If so, what am I missing?
Thanks
David
I’m curious. Have you actually been told you’d qualify for long-term care insurance? That you’d be accepted? Many LTC insurers have stopped offered the product at all and my understanding is that those who remain have much stricter requirements for approving new applicants.

dknightd
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Sat May 05, 2018 7:30 pm

Jackson12 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:24 pm

I’m curious. Have you actually been told you’d qualify for long-term care insurance? That you’d be accepted? Many LTC insurers have stopped offered the product at all and my understanding is that those who remain have much stricter requirements for approving new applicants.
I have not formally applied.

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Raymond
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Location: Texas

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Raymond » Sat May 05, 2018 7:36 pm

You could apply, but it sounds like self-insuring is a better plan, assuming that you all could even qualify for LTCI.
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"

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cheese_breath
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by cheese_breath » Sat May 05, 2018 8:15 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
... Our current plan is that one of us would take care of the other if needed....
We don't have LTC insurance, and our plan was to die quickly after maybe a few days in the hospital. Didn't work out that way. DW had a massive stroke 13 months ago. I had the foolish notion I'd take her home and care for her myself after a few weeks in rehab. That didn't work out that way eiter. Not counting the hospitalization for the stroke, she's been hospitalized three times since then. Almost died the last time. When she's not in hospital she's in nursing homes with me there most of the time in addition to the nursing home staff. I'm actually sitting next to her bed right now while I'm typing this. She's been bed bound for months and is just now getting to the point where we can try physical therapy again. It's running me about $10K per month for her care with prescription co-pays about $500 per month. Granted my / DW's case is the exception, but how do you know yours won't be too?
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

Freefun
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Freefun » Sun May 06, 2018 5:33 am

I don't know how you would get good answers to,your question considering
- your level of assets aren't clear
- your desire to protect those assets arent clear
- youre not sure you would meet the qualification criteria
- for any plans you might qualify for- what is the coverage and to what extent does this help you with your objectives, and how does the cost impact your financial picture ?

It shouldn't hurt to apply for a few policies and see if you can qualify.
Policies I'm aware of give you tIme to decide if you want to be in the plan.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

DarthSage
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by DarthSage » Sun May 06, 2018 6:32 am

Well, it's difficult to give specific advice without knowing the things that Freefun mentioned--assets (and liquidity), what you might want to preserve, and so forth.

I also think Cheese-breath makes a good point--I'm sorry you're going through this, Cheese-breath, it can't be easy.

That brings me to my larger point--it's all well and good to say that one of us will take care of the other in failing health, but there's no way to guarantee serial health problems like that. You could both be in a car accident. One of you could face cancer, while the other needs a hip replacement. Obviously, nobody wants these things in tandem, but it DOES happen. Two long-term diseases could spend down your assets quickly. Now, we don't know where you're starting from, so maybe you'd be fine.

Also, I don't know that you're going to be able to be covered by LTC insurance with your current medical status. Maybe you can find a policy, but the odds are, it's going to be pricey.

pintail07
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by pintail07 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:23 am

A good broker can get an informal offer from many companies. We have a questionnaire that we have completed and then send it to 5 or 6 companies and have a tentative offer in a few days.

dknightd
Posts: 567
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am

pintail07 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:23 am
A good broker can get an informal offer from many companies. We have a questionnaire that we have completed and then send it to 5 or 6 companies and have a tentative offer in a few days.
Care to share the name of that broker?

To answer other questions, we have about $1.1M. I'd like to leave money to my kids, but, am more interested in not leaving them a debt (or having to care for us). When I retire I get to keep my company healthcare, which then will supplement medicare. So copays, and drugs are not too bad. But I don't think it covers long term care - will have to check on that.

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SpringMan
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Location: Michigan

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by SpringMan » Sun May 06, 2018 8:07 am

cheese_breath wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:15 pm
We don't have LTC insurance, and our plan was to die quickly after maybe a few days in the hospital. Didn't work out that way. DW had a massive stroke 13 months ago. I had the foolish notion I'd take her home and care for her myself after a few weeks in rehab. That didn't work out that way eiter. Not counting the hospitalization for the stroke, she's been hospitalized three times since then. Almost died the last time. When she's not in hospital she's in nursing homes with me there most of the time in addition to the nursing home staff. I'm actually sitting next to her bed right now while I'm typing this. She's been bed bound for months and is just now getting to the point where we can try physical therapy again. It's running me about $10K per month for her care with prescription co-pays about $500 per month. Granted my / DW's case is the exception, but how do you know yours won't be too?
I am sorry to hear that. I feel we had some things in common like working and retiring fromr EDS. We don't have LTCI either. My DW has chronic pancreatitis and is a medical cannabis user. She does not smoke, we make cannabis infused butter. Cannabis helped her get completely off fentanyl patches. Your signature line is so true. I have a degenerative neural muscular affliction called CMT and now walk with a cane. It is genetic and my bio-father had it. BTW, his answer to LTCI and I don't recommend it, was a handgun. After his wife past, he was looking at going into a nursing home for the second time, he took his own life. He and I were not real close since my mother divorced him when I was an infant and I was in my late 50s when I finally met him.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

Jackson12
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Jackson12 » Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am

dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am
pintail07 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:23 am
A good broker can get an informal offer from many companies. We have a questionnaire that we have completed and then send it to 5 or 6 companies and have a tentative offer in a few days.
Care to share the name of that broker?

To answer other questions, we have about $1.1M. I'd like to leave money to my kids, but, am more interested in not leaving them a debt (or having to care for us). When I retire I get to keep my company healthcare, which then will supplement medicare. So copays, and drugs are not too bad. But I don't think it covers long term care - will have to check on that.
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

You also haven’t noted:
Your current expenses and level of debt . If you can afford $10,000 in annual premiums now ( assuming you could get accepted for decent insurance ) could you also afford a premium hike of 30% or more?

Check with your states department of insurance and they may link you to a page which lists long-term care insurers and their history of requesting rate hikes in your state - as well as those which were approved. Here’s an example: http://www.insurance.pa.gov/Consumers/P ... lings.aspx
Look at decision summaries and you’ll see the approvals. Significant rate increases have been approved but I don’t know the age of the insurance contracts listed for each company.

In my state, nearly every insurer has asked for rate hikes of between 20-80 percent for many contracts, including ones which are 10 years old or less. Even when turned down for a huge hike they have been approved for 30% or 40% or more. Not always , of course,but often enough for concern.

Rate hike approvals vary significantly by state. Knowing your state’s history of approvals could be useful.

Could you afford a rate hike of your premiums? How high? Do a search on each forum here ( with the exception of the one on investment theory) using the search words “ long term care insurance” to get more information. It’s been the subject of a fair number of threads, some focusing on rate hikes.

Newer contracts are supposedly less likely to have rate hikes but “ newer” is relative and policies bought at age 55 and are only 10 years old-or less- have had significant premium hikes.

What is your current living situation? Do you own your home? Would it be possible to sell it, if necesssry, downsize, and use any remaining funds to help cover long term care?

Most policies have elimination periods of 60-120 days. Longer elimination periods are generally tied to lower premiums. During the elimination period, you have to be prepared to cover at least $6000 a month -or more-in monthly nursing home or home health care expenses.

That’s as of today . Who knows how much long-term care care costs will increase? Here’s info on one site which focuses on current costs, state by state : https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/ ... -care.html

There are similar sites out there. You can get even more specific info by calling nursing homes and home health care agencies in your area to obtain current costs.

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Watty
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Watty » Sun May 06, 2018 9:40 am

dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
If so, what am I missing?
One thing to keep in mind is that the cost of LTC varies a lot depending on where you are are at so you may need to plan for it a lot differently if you are in a high or low cost area.

https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/ ... -care.html

I live in Georgia where the costs are fairly low so the cost of long term care is not very different than our normal retirement budget. I am not too concerned about that if only one of us is surviving when LTC is needed.

The big risk for us is that LTC might be needed for a long time when we are both still living but our home equity would be able to supplement those costs if we needed it.

dknightd
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am

Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.

JoeRetire
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Sun May 06, 2018 12:36 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
Our current plan is that one of us would take care of the other if needed.
That's a difficult assumption.
You and/or your spouse may not be physically capable of providing that kind of care.
If they needed assistance we could probably pay for a 1/2 time person out of pocket.
Why 1/2 time? which half of the day do you mean? All day long? All night long?
The assumption is if one of us needs additional care, the other is likely to need no money for travel etc. So, as long as we are both alive, and one of us is still functional, we would be OK.
Is that the kind of life you both want for each other?

JoeRetire
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Re: Long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am
Care to share the name of that broker?
We used Accuquote as our long term care insurance broker.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 1:44 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:15 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
... Our current plan is that one of us would take care of the other if needed....
We don't have LTC insurance, and our plan was to die quickly after maybe a few days in the hospital. Didn't work out that way. DW had a massive stroke 13 months ago. I had the foolish notion I'd take her home and care for her myself after a few weeks in rehab. That didn't work out that way eiter. Not counting the hospitalization for the stroke, she's been hospitalized three times since then. Almost died the last time. When she's not in hospital she's in nursing homes with me there most of the time in addition to the nursing home staff. I'm actually sitting next to her bed right now while I'm typing this. She's been bed bound for months and is just now getting to the point where we can try physical therapy again. It's running me about $10K per month for her care with prescription co-pays about $500 per month. Granted my / DW's case is the exception, but how do you know yours won't be too?
Glad to see you back on the forum. I think of you and your wife when threads of this type come up.

I hope your wife has success with physical therapy and her recovery.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.

Jackson12
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by Jackson12 » Sun May 06, 2018 2:33 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There’s approximately a 12% chance you’ll need more than 3 years of nursing home care ( (depending on the source you use for info) . Long term care insurance buys some time, as much as 3 years or more.

But it’s still subject to the risks of higher premiums. Nearly everyone in my family was an outlier but thanks to good support systems managed to stay at home till death. That’s not an option for many. I certainly don’t have the support system of my parents.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:33 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There’s approximately a 12% chance you’ll need more than 3 years of nursing home care ( (depending on the source you use for info) . Long term care insurance buys some time, as much as 3 years or more.

But it’s still subject to the risks of higher premiums. Nearly everyone in my family was an outlier but thanks to good support systems managed to stay at home till death. That’s not an option for many. I certainly don’t have the support system of my parents.
80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:10 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits.
Additionally, over 40 states allow your assets to be protected from Medicaid spend down even if your long-term care policy runs out of benefits. It's called the Long Term Care Partnership Program and you only need to buy coverage equal to the amount of assets you want to protect from Medicaid.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:33 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There’s approximately a 12% chance you’ll need more than 3 years of nursing home care ( (depending on the source you use for info) . Long term care insurance buys some time, as much as 3 years or more.

But it’s still subject to the risks of higher premiums. Nearly everyone in my family was an outlier but thanks to good support systems managed to stay at home till death. That’s not an option for many. I certainly don’t have the support system of my parents.
80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.
Do you have a citation for that number?

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:33 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am

1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There’s approximately a 12% chance you’ll need more than 3 years of nursing home care ( (depending on the source you use for info) . Long term care insurance buys some time, as much as 3 years or more.

But it’s still subject to the risks of higher premiums. Nearly everyone in my family was an outlier but thanks to good support systems managed to stay at home till death. That’s not an option for many. I certainly don’t have the support system of my parents.
80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.
Do you have a citation for that number?
Congressional Budget Office.
Living Arrangements for Elderly People Receiving Long-Term Services and Supports, 2010
Published 2014.
Exhibit 12
Page numbered 20

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files ... 63-ltc.pdf

pintail07
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by pintail07 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:18 pm

Watty wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:40 am
dknightd wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm
If so, what am I missing?
One thing to keep in mind is that the cost of LTC varies a lot depending on where you are are at so you may need to plan for it a lot differently if you are in a high or low cost area.

https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/ ... -care.html

I live in Georgia where the costs are fairly low so the cost of long term care is not very different than our normal retirement budget. I am not too concerned about that if only one of us is surviving when LTC is needed.

The big risk for us is that LTC might be needed for a long time when we are both still living but our home equity would be able to supplement those costs if we needed it.
There are ways to insure against a long tail claim. Two companies currently offer lifetime plans with very reasonable premiums if you are super healthy. And, there are ways to limit one's exposure to rate increases.
Last edited by pintail07 on Sun May 06, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:10 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits.
Additionally, over 40 states allow your assets to be protected from Medicaid spend down even if your long-term care policy runs out of benefits. It's called the Long Term Care Partnership Program and you only need to buy coverage equal to the amount of assets you want to protect from Medicaid.
Sharing was not an option with our LTC coverage.

I was not familiar with partnership, and found this when I looked it up:

“The law specifies that anyone who purchases a tax-qualified long term care insurance policy that meets stringent consumer protection standards and certain inflation requirements under the Partnership Program would qualify for asset protection, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to the policy maximum.

It is important to note that the purchase of DRA Partnership coverage does not automatically qualify the coverage holder for Medicaid. In addition, all other Medicaid eligibility criteria and requirements will apply at the time an individual applies for Medicaid.”

The problem, of course, is that you still end up dependent on Medicaid for your care if you qualify.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 6:25 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:33 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm


One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There’s approximately a 12% chance you’ll need more than 3 years of nursing home care ( (depending on the source you use for info) . Long term care insurance buys some time, as much as 3 years or more.

But it’s still subject to the risks of higher premiums. Nearly everyone in my family was an outlier but thanks to good support systems managed to stay at home till death. That’s not an option for many. I certainly don’t have the support system of my parents.
80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.
Do you have a citation for that number?
Congressional Budget Office.
Living Arrangements for Elderly People Receiving Long-Term Services and Supports, 2010
Published 2014.
Exhibit 12
Page numbered 20

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files ... 63-ltc.pdf
Thanks.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:34 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:10 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:47 am
There is still more information needed. You’ve given your ages and described your health habits and noted you have $1.1 million dollars in assets. Are you including your home in your assets?

snip
1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits.
Additionally, over 40 states allow your assets to be protected from Medicaid spend down even if your long-term care policy runs out of benefits. It's called the Long Term Care Partnership Program and you only need to buy coverage equal to the amount of assets you want to protect from Medicaid.
Sharing was not an option with our LTC coverage.

I was not familiar with partnership, and found this when I looked it up:

“The law specifies that anyone who purchases a tax-qualified long term care insurance policy that meets stringent consumer protection standards and certain inflation requirements under the Partnership Program would qualify for asset protection, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to the policy maximum.

It is important to note that the purchase of DRA Partnership coverage does not automatically qualify the coverage holder for Medicaid. In addition, all other Medicaid eligibility criteria and requirements will apply at the time an individual applies for Medicaid.”

The problem, of course, is that you still end up dependent on Medicaid for your care if you qualify.

The Long-Term Care Partnership Program is not the best option for everyone. It's best for those couples who have less than $750K of invest-able assets and less than $75K of retirement income.

So what if one spouse ends up dependent on Medicaid? The assets will be protected from Medicaid spend down AND protected from Medicaid estate recovery.

delamer
Posts: 5470
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by delamer » Sun May 06, 2018 7:33 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:34 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:10 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 am

1.1M is in retirement accounts. We own our home (well almost, still owe $50k on it). No other debts.
We could afford $10k/year - just barely. Which is why I'm thinking about not getting LTC insurance.
One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits.
Additionally, over 40 states allow your assets to be protected from Medicaid spend down even if your long-term care policy runs out of benefits. It's called the Long Term Care Partnership Program and you only need to buy coverage equal to the amount of assets you want to protect from Medicaid.
Sharing was not an option with our LTC coverage.

I was not familiar with partnership, and found this when I looked it up:

“The law specifies that anyone who purchases a tax-qualified long term care insurance policy that meets stringent consumer protection standards and certain inflation requirements under the Partnership Program would qualify for asset protection, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to the policy maximum.

It is important to note that the purchase of DRA Partnership coverage does not automatically qualify the coverage holder for Medicaid. In addition, all other Medicaid eligibility criteria and requirements will apply at the time an individual applies for Medicaid.”

The problem, of course, is that you still end up dependent on Medicaid for your care if you qualify.

The Long-Term Care Partnership Program is not the best option for everyone. It's best for those couples who have less than $750K of invest-able assets and less than $75K of retirement income.

So what if one spouse ends up dependent on Medicaid? The assets will be protected from Medicaid spend down AND protected from Medicaid estate recovery.
The issue with being dependent on Medicaid is quality of care and, in some cases, the ability to get care.

thelimocat
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by thelimocat » Sun May 06, 2018 7:36 pm

"There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits."


I would like to know what two companies provide this type of coverage in todays market. I think if all will really get down to applying for LTC you will find that the options are quite different than they were in the past 10 years or so. John Hancock for one has quit selling them and is only maintaining those that they have underwritten, with stout increases in rates as well.
The general consensus is 3 years for a male and 5 years for a female as the normal stay in a facility providing care, though many policies were written that were for the remainder of life once triggered. We are talking about assisted living / memory care or in home care here not independent living facilities.
I think most may find that todays policies are a hybrid of insurance and LTC. This comes from a presentation by an agent who had no sales pitch or skin in the game for the group she was presenting to.

Here in the Austin area the current run rate is 60k year to stay in a place.

pintail07
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by pintail07 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:46 pm

The two companies are National Guardian Life and One America. The One America is a hybrid policy and you better have your agent what really happens when you make a future claim, you will have to pay additional costs. The hybrid work for some but as a broker, if you can qualify, a traditional policy may be a better option. The broker one uses should do lots of what if scenarios before you make a decision. Hybrids are a hot talking point but rarely all is disclosed.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 8:48 pm

delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:33 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:34 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:10 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:48 pm


One of the problems with LTC insurance is that while it may pay for a few years of care, if you have a situation where 10 years of care are needed then the benefits will run out.

The 10 year case is an outlier, but obviously can happen. I can self-insure for a couple years, what I really need is coverage if I am the outlier.
There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits.
Additionally, over 40 states allow your assets to be protected from Medicaid spend down even if your long-term care policy runs out of benefits. It's called the Long Term Care Partnership Program and you only need to buy coverage equal to the amount of assets you want to protect from Medicaid.
Sharing was not an option with our LTC coverage.

I was not familiar with partnership, and found this when I looked it up:

“The law specifies that anyone who purchases a tax-qualified long term care insurance policy that meets stringent consumer protection standards and certain inflation requirements under the Partnership Program would qualify for asset protection, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to the policy maximum.

It is important to note that the purchase of DRA Partnership coverage does not automatically qualify the coverage holder for Medicaid. In addition, all other Medicaid eligibility criteria and requirements will apply at the time an individual applies for Medicaid.”

The problem, of course, is that you still end up dependent on Medicaid for your care if you qualify.

The Long-Term Care Partnership Program is not the best option for everyone. It's best for those couples who have less than $750K of invest-able assets and less than $75K of retirement income.

So what if one spouse ends up dependent on Medicaid? The assets will be protected from Medicaid spend down AND protected from Medicaid estate recovery.
The issue with being dependent on Medicaid is quality of care and, in some cases, the ability to get care.

The difficulty in getting care on Medicaid is for those who rely on Medicaid from day one.
If you have a policy that pays for the first 3, 4, 5, or 6 years of care, transitioning to Medicaid is, generally, not a problem.

For someone with over $1,000,000 of invest-able assets and projected retirement income over $100K/yr, they should buy a traditional long-term care insurance policy that would prevent them from every going on Medicaid.

But for those squarely in the middle class the Long-Term Care Partnership Program is a perfect solution.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Sun May 06, 2018 10:50 pm

thelimocat wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:36 pm
"There are two companies that sell policies that can never run out of benefits.
Nearly every long-term care insurer allows spouses to share 10 to 16 years of benefits."


I would like to know what two companies provide this type of coverage in todays market. I think if all will really get down to applying for LTC you will find that the options are quite different than they were in the past 10 years or so. John Hancock for one has quit selling them and is only maintaining those that they have underwritten, with stout increases in rates as well.
The general consensus is 3 years for a male and 5 years for a female as the normal stay in a facility providing care, though many policies were written that were for the remainder of life once triggered. We are talking about assisted living / memory care or in home care here not independent living facilities.
I think most may find that todays policies are a hybrid of insurance and LTC. This comes from a presentation by an agent who had no sales pitch or skin in the game for the group she was presenting to.

Here in the Austin area the current run rate is 60k year to stay in a place.
The two companies that offer lifetime/unlimited benefits are National Guardian Life and OneAmerica.
Genworth and Transamerica offer 10 to 12 years of shared benefits for spouses/partners.
Bankers Life & Casualty, Mutual of Omaha, New York Life and Thrivent offer up to 16 years of shared benefits for spouses/partners.

It's true that the "average" stay in a nursing home is about 3 years, but most people who need long-term care never go into nursing homes. 80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.

Most agents who sell "hybrids" which combine life insurance with long-term care insurance. Agents (and insurers) prefer these hybrid policies because they offer high commissions to the agents and high profits for the insurance companies.

If you're healthy enough to qualify for traditional long-term care insurance, 9 times out of 10 you're better off buying a traditional long-term care insurance policy.

AARP recently published an article showing that hybrid policies are 2x to 3x more expensive than traditional long-term care insurance policies.

https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financi ... ce-fd.html

inbox788
Posts: 5268
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by inbox788 » Mon May 07, 2018 2:28 am

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm

80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.
Do you have a citation for that number?
Congressional Budget Office.
Living Arrangements for Elderly People Receiving Long-Term Services and Supports, 2010
Published 2014.
Exhibit 12
Page numbered 20

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files ... 63-ltc.pdf
Thanks for the link. Sounds to me like some of the community arrangement includes home and assisted living. Never considered "facility only" issue. Is that typical or atypical when discussing LTC insurance?

https://www.assistedlivingfacilities.or ... insurance/

JoeRetire
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Mon May 07, 2018 7:13 am

WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:50 pm
It's true that the "average" stay in a nursing home is about 3 years, but most people who need long-term care never go into nursing homes. 80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Thus you need to make sure your policy covers in-home care.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Mon May 07, 2018 7:34 am

inbox788 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 2:28 am
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm
delamer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:08 pm

80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Nursing home statistics are not very helpful.
Do you have a citation for that number?
Congressional Budget Office.
Living Arrangements for Elderly People Receiving Long-Term Services and Supports, 2010
Published 2014.
Exhibit 12
Page numbered 20

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files ... 63-ltc.pdf
Thanks for the link. Sounds to me like some of the community arrangement includes home and assisted living. Never considered "facility only" issue. Is that typical or atypical when discussing LTC insurance?

https://www.assistedlivingfacilities.or ... insurance/

I don't understand your question.
The article you linked to is also very confusing. It reads like it was written by someone who doesn't understand English very well.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Mon May 07, 2018 7:37 am

JoeRetire wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:13 am
WoW2012 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:50 pm
It's true that the "average" stay in a nursing home is about 3 years, but most people who need long-term care never go into nursing homes. 80% of the people who need long-term care receive it at home.
Thus you need to make sure your policy covers in-home care.
Most policies purchased before 1997 did not include home care.
Most policies purchased after did include home care.
About 99% of the policies purchased today include home care.

inbox788
Posts: 5268
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by inbox788 » Mon May 07, 2018 11:48 am

WoW2012 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:34 am
I don't understand your question.
The article you linked to is also very confusing. It reads like it was written by someone who doesn't understand English very well.
If 80% of long term care is provided at home, does LTCI cover it, and if so, what costs are covered? Home nurse visits? Rent? Meals?

Also, unlicensed assisted living facilities sounds untoward, but if one's needs don't require the full assisted living standard and can make do with independent senior housing or home care, does LTCI help in these situations?

https://www.aarp.org/home-garden/livabl ... using.html
Last edited by inbox788 on Mon May 07, 2018 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

gizzsdad
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: midwest

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by gizzsdad » Mon May 07, 2018 11:55 am

My FIL purchased LTC insurance after his wife died when he was 70. Premium was approx. $2K/year. After several increases, premium was approx. $2.8K when he made a claim at about age 85. His policy paid more than his accumulated premiums in less than 12 months, even thought it was paying at a lower "assisted living" rate.

My wife and I had purchased ours about 5 years ago. After seeing how much it helped in Dad's situation, older brother and spouse purchased last year. Both theirs and ours are partnership qualified.

LTC insurance is most definitely a "peace of mind" purchase. All three kids and spouses feel blessed by Dad's purchase of coverage.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:07 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 11:48 am
WoW2012 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:34 am
I don't understand your question.
The article you linked to is also very confusing. It reads like it was written by someone who doesn't understand English very well.
If 80% of long term care is provided at home, does LTCI cover it, and if so, what costs are covered? Home nurse visits? Rent? Meals?

Also, unlicensed assisted living facilities sounds untoward, but if one's needs don't require the full assisted living standard and can make do with independent senior housing or home care, does LTCI help in these situations?

https://www.aarp.org/home-garden/livabl ... using.html
Most long-term care insurance policies purchased before 1/1/1997 did not include home care.
Most long-term care insurance policies purchased after 1/1/1997 do include home care.
About 99% of the long-term care insurance policies purchased today include home care.

Long-term care insurance policies pay for custodial care (e.g. bathing, dressing, eating, toileting, getting into and out of bed/chair, etc...) These are called "Activities of Daily Living" or ADL's for short.
Long-term care insurance policies also pay for assistance or supervision that is required due to a cognitive impairment.
This care is usually provided by home health aides, CNA's, LPN's, etc...

Most long-term care insurance policies also pay for help with meal preparation, light housekeeping, laundry, shopping, transportation IF the policyholder needs help with 2 or more ADL's or needs supervision due to a cognitive impairment.

Rent? NO.
Groceries? NO.

Home nurse visits? I don't understand what you mean by that. If you're referring to a registered nurse who provides medical care that would be paid for by Medicare.


I don't understand this question either: "Also, unlicensed assisted living facilities sounds untoward, but if one's needs don't require the full assisted living standard and can make do with independent senior housing or home care, does LTCI help in these situations?"
Can you be more specific or provide an example or two of what you mean?


Lastly, the article you link to is 11 years old. Most states have some type of regulation/licensing for adult care homes. Maybe some states don't require licensing. I certainly would not want to be in an unlicensed facility, would you?

inbox788
Posts: 5268
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by inbox788 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:31 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:07 pm
Most long-term care insurance policies purchased before 1/1/1997 did not include home care.
Most long-term care insurance policies purchased after 1/1/1997 do include home care.
About 99% of the long-term care insurance policies purchased today include home care.

Long-term care insurance policies pay for custodial care (e.g. bathing, dressing, eating, toileting, getting into and out of bed/chair, etc...) These are called "Activities of Daily Living" or ADL's for short.
Long-term care insurance policies also pay for assistance or supervision that is required due to a cognitive impairment.
This care is usually provided by home health aides, CNA's, LPN's, etc...

Most long-term care insurance policies also pay for help with meal preparation, light housekeeping, laundry, shopping, transportation IF the policyholder needs help with 2 or more ADL's or needs supervision due to a cognitive impairment.

Rent? NO.
Groceries? NO.

Home nurse visits? I don't understand what you mean by that. If you're referring to a registered nurse who provides medical care that would be paid for by Medicare.

I don't understand this question either: "Also, unlicensed assisted living facilities sounds untoward, but if one's needs don't require the full assisted living standard and can make do with independent senior housing or home care, does LTCI help in these situations?"
Can you be more specific or provide an example or two of what you mean?

Lastly, the article you link to is 11 years old. Most states have some type of regulation/licensing for adult care homes. Maybe some states don't require licensing. I certainly would not want to be in an unlicensed facility, would you?
Thanks for providing some clarity as to what LTCI covers or not, especially outside a facility (not at nursing home or licensed assisted living). My simple minded understand was it mainly covered facilities, including room, board, and personal assistant services, while health insurance covered the medical needs. I wasn't expecting LTCI to be all that helpful at home or elsewhere, and it's useful to learn where I was mistaken. The unlicensed facilities I would consider are not trying to be assisted living facilities and falling short, but among these community residencies with additional basic services. I'm guessing there's not much of a middle ground. If you need help with ADLs, and LTCI covers it, you'll be at a full blown assisted living center or more. And if you don't formally need it, LTCI won't likely cover it. Among the nursing-like services, I was thinking about simply checking on the resident regularly/daily and helping with medications and taking their own blood pressure. Maybe just a simple reminder or providing a glass of water. When does this cross into assisted living?
Elderly people living in the community, in contrast, may reside in community-based residences that offer basic services (such as meals, housekeeping, and laundry) as well as some health-related services (such as help with medications), but only about 2 percent live in such
residences.
The vast majority—80 percent—of elderly people receiving assistance, including many with several functional limitations, live in private homes. They may receive assistance during the day at adult day care centers or in their own home. The care they receive is usually donated or informal. Formal care is paid for out of their own funds, through private insurance, or through public programs (such as Medicaid).

dknightd
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Mon May 07, 2018 5:54 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am
Care to share the name of that broker?
We used Accuquote as our long term care insurance broker.
As near as I can tell they sell life insurance. Was there a long term care link I did not see?

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Mon May 07, 2018 6:08 pm

dknightd wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 5:54 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am
Care to share the name of that broker?
We used Accuquote as our long term care insurance broker.
As near as I can tell they sell life insurance. Was there a long term care link I did not see?
Make sure you get some quotes from agents who specialize in long-term care insurance.
Just google "long term care insurance specialist" and scroll through the first 3 or 4 pages of results.
Look for sites that have a real-life person with real contact information, not just a site that is an anonymous lead generator for insurance agents.

dknightd
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by dknightd » Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 pm

We've pretty much decided to insure ourselves for long term care. I will look into rates, but we are getting older, and have health flags, so it may not even be possible to get it. Then my fear would be they bump the rates and make it un-affordable just when one of us needs it.
We'll have good medical insurance, and can keep it as a "medicare advantage plan" so direct medical costs are well covered.
My plan is for about $72k income after taxes when I retire. If one of us needs long term care, we would need more than that. Could be double. I'll add in a slush fund. I'll call my long term care/money for the kids fund. I'll keep $150k in it. And add to it when markets allow. That combined with a $200k house, along with our retirement income, should pay for several years of long term care. If we don't need it, we'll pass it along.
Frankly if I need it, I might move to a place where assisted suicide was legal. Of course I could change my mind . . .

JoeRetire
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by JoeRetire » Mon May 07, 2018 7:03 pm

dknightd wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 5:54 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm
dknightd wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am
Care to share the name of that broker?
We used Accuquote as our long term care insurance broker.
As near as I can tell they sell life insurance. Was there a long term care link I did not see?
No idea about their website.
However, I did find this: https://www.accuquote.com/products-serv ... term-care/

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Tue May 08, 2018 4:25 pm

dknightd wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 pm
We've pretty much decided to insure ourselves for long term care. I will look into rates, but we are getting older, and have health flags, so it may not even be possible to get it. Then my fear would be they bump the rates and make it un-affordable just when one of us needs it.
We'll have good medical insurance, and can keep it as a "medicare advantage plan" so direct medical costs are well covered.
My plan is for about $72k income after taxes when I retire. If one of us needs long term care, we would need more than that. Could be double. I'll add in a slush fund. I'll call my long term care/money for the kids fund. I'll keep $150k in it. And add to it when markets allow. That combined with a $200k house, along with our retirement income, should pay for several years of long term care. If we don't need it, we'll pass it along.
Frankly if I need it, I might move to a place where assisted suicide was legal. Of course I could change my mind . . .
41 states have very strict rate increase regulations for the newer long-term care policies (not the older ones).

grok87
Posts: 8222
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:00 pm

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by grok87 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:08 pm

WoW2012 wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:25 pm
dknightd wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 pm
We've pretty much decided to insure ourselves for long term care. I will look into rates, but we are getting older, and have health flags, so it may not even be possible to get it. Then my fear would be they bump the rates and make it un-affordable just when one of us needs it.
We'll have good medical insurance, and can keep it as a "medicare advantage plan" so direct medical costs are well covered.
My plan is for about $72k income after taxes when I retire. If one of us needs long term care, we would need more than that. Could be double. I'll add in a slush fund. I'll call my long term care/money for the kids fund. I'll keep $150k in it. And add to it when markets allow. That combined with a $200k house, along with our retirement income, should pay for several years of long term care. If we don't need it, we'll pass it along.
Frankly if I need it, I might move to a place where assisted suicide was legal. Of course I could change my mind . . .
41 states have very strict rate increase regulations for the newer long-term care policies (not the older ones).
by the old ones you mean the ones Suze Orman used to peddle right?
https://www.suzeorman.com/index.php/blo ... nce-update
wonder how many people bought because of her endorsement and then got shafted by the large rate increases.
Keep calm and Boglehead on. KCBO.

WoW2012
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Long term care insurance

Post by WoW2012 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:30 pm

grok87 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:08 pm
WoW2012 wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:25 pm
dknightd wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 pm
We've pretty much decided to insure ourselves for long term care. I will look into rates, but we are getting older, and have health flags, so it may not even be possible to get it. Then my fear would be they bump the rates and make it un-affordable just when one of us needs it.
We'll have good medical insurance, and can keep it as a "medicare advantage plan" so direct medical costs are well covered.
My plan is for about $72k income after taxes when I retire. If one of us needs long term care, we would need more than that. Could be double. I'll add in a slush fund. I'll call my long term care/money for the kids fund. I'll keep $150k in it. And add to it when markets allow. That combined with a $200k house, along with our retirement income, should pay for several years of long term care. If we don't need it, we'll pass it along.
Frankly if I need it, I might move to a place where assisted suicide was legal. Of course I could change my mind . . .
41 states have very strict rate increase regulations for the newer long-term care policies (not the older ones).
by the old ones you mean the ones Suze Orman used to peddle right?
https://www.suzeorman.com/index.php/blo ... nce-update
wonder how many people bought because of her endorsement and then got shafted by the large rate increases.

Suze does a lot of good for a lot of people.
The people who hate her the most are the insurance agents and "financial advisors" who give consumers bad advice.

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