“The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
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SeeMoe
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“The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by SeeMoe » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am

We are in our mid seventies and live in a very nice 5 Star CCRC That is managed by a nationally known service organization that does a lot of good for sick kids and widows in need. It is tax exempt because of their good works.they, and several others ,to include a Christian college and a catholic service group, are in our wills. Once these groups learned they are in our will, because we mistakenly told them so, they began sending their bequeathing representatives by to talk to us and advise us of the poor and needy who need help....Now! One even honestly said ,when asked, you have more funds than you both will ever need,and we would rather have your money in hand now before expenses and senility take over and drain the well....as it were. I really can’t blame them, but it is irritating. Our reasoning is as the good book implies “ the poor will always be with us.” Meaning after we are gone, the latest poor will benefit from our savings that we steadily accumulated with Vanguard over many years. Just don’t ask us for the money now.
P.S. Do the will, and keep it a secret! Plus ask the lawyer to be the executor, we have sadly found. Because inlaws we designated in the past as the executor began giving us “ ideas” how to spend our hard earned buck$,... now! Very irritating.

SeeMoe.. :annoyed
"By gnawing through a dike, even a Rat can destroy a nation ." {Edmund Burke}

Dottie57
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:44 am

If they keep pestering, tell them that with another visit or suggestion they will be disinherited.

It is YOUR money.

And YES you can blame them.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:51 am

As with windfall advice, this adage holds true - "keep your mouth shut".
Nothing attracts the flies faster than the thought of free honey, nothing attract the gold diggers faster than the thought of free money.

In the past, we've been generous with our local food bank, perhaps a bit too generous as now they constantly bombard us with a mailing once per month asking for additional monthly donations in the sum that we donate annually. :oops: The good thing about mail is that one can just take it, shred it and dispose of it. However, living in a captive community such as yourself, you will literally have to turn those folks away, be firm and tell them they are no longer welcome in your presence, if it gets out of hand which it appears to be the stage you are in now.
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student
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by student » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am
One even honestly said ,when asked, you have more funds than you both will ever need,and we would rather have your money in hand now before expenses and senility take over and drain the well....as it were.
This is really bad. So they want you to give away money now and risk having not enough later on.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am

I completely get how angry these people could make you. If this happened to me, I would immediately change my will to leave the money to our local no-kill animal shelter and send a copy of the new will to those people who showed up on my door.

I don't have issue with people suggesting to me how I should spend my money. My college son tells my wife and me all the time that we should spend our money on ourselves, that he doesn't want anything left to him. I should go out and buy a Porsche 911 GT-3RS. Perhaps this comes from my references of his college costs being about equal with a mid-level, MSRP of a new Lamborghini Huracan.
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GAAP
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by GAAP » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:06 pm

Send them all a letter: "If I ever hear from one of your bequeathing representatives, you will be disinherited -- no second chances". Then, follow through...

+1 on never telling them in the first place.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by le_sacre » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:17 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:51 am
In the past, we've been generous with our local food bank, perhaps a bit too generous as now they constantly bombard us with a mailing once per month...
Just a small counterpoint here: I don't see how a piece of mail once per month can be considered "bombarding".

I understand the irritation (and it's easy for me to say since I don't have to deal with much volume of requests at this point), but sometimes I feel people get a mistaken notion that a right to privacy is a right not to be contacted or asked for anything. If having to figure out how to firmly, resolutely, politely-if-possible turn away donation solicitors is a price of comfortable wealth, then I think it's well worth paying.

This is different from the OP's situation, though, where it sounds like repeated (?) unsolicited home visits are continuing despite refusals. In my book that kind of behavior should threaten to knock 1-2 off those 5 stars they currently have (and management should be told so).

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:27 pm

GAAP wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:06 pm
Send them all a letter: "If I ever hear from one of your bequeathing representatives, you will be disinherited -- no second chances". Then, follow through...

+1 on never telling them in the first place.
This ^^^

Unsolicited home visit protocol -

Knock, knock.
Who is it?
Mary, from the charity that bothers you all the time.
Open door - Mary, please go away, and make sure your files say to not ever come to our home again. Can you do that Mary? Great, have a nice day!

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by SeeMoe » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
I completely get how angry these people could make you. If this happened to me, I would immediately change my will to leave the money to our local no-kill animal shelter and send a copy of the new will to those people who showed up on my door.

I don't have issue with people suggesting to me how I should spend my money. My college son tells my wife and me all the time that we should spend our money on ourselves, that he doesn't want anything left to him. I should go out and buy a Porsche 911 GT-3RS. Perhaps this comes from my references of his college costs being about equal with a mid-level, MSRP of a new Lamborghini Huracan.
We were so upset that we did do as you suggested and I bought a red 2018 Mercedes , 385 hp , AMG GLE43 Sports coupe. Wife then did the same getting a white 2018 Mercedes GLE350 suv, and both are loaded too. So there!

SeeMoe.. :mrgreen:
"By gnawing through a dike, even a Rat can destroy a nation ." {Edmund Burke}

GAAP
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by GAAP » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:17 pm
This is different from the OP's situation, though, where it sounds like repeated (?) unsolicited home visits are continuing despite refusals. In my book that kind of behavior should threaten to knock 1-2 off those 5 stars they currently have (and management should be told so).
Actually, it's worse -- one of those parties is operating the facility OP lives in. To my mind, that's nearly extortion...

genefl
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by genefl » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:43 pm

tThis is why we donate anonymously. Donate what you want and you don't get bombarded with requests for more. These days, your contact info gets sold on mailing lists of possible donors. It opens the door to a neverending stream of solicitation...

SGM
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by SGM » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:47 pm

This pestering makes us less likely to donate cash. I pay higher tips for service than I once did. If a charity wastes money on advertising and mailing us useless stuff we will discontinue giving to the charities. We don't respond to unsolicited phone calls from any charity or business. We do volunteer charitable work. DW likes to buy items from a charity, an auction, estate or garage sale and resell them at a much higher price to a charity in an upscale neighborhood. Non-saleable items she donates. She nets the charity several hundred dollars each month from her re-sales. Every week she fills a window at a local cleaning store with donated items that nets the charity upwards of $100 every week. She volunteers at the charity several days a week and has turned down chairmanship of the board.

We just took a large estate check to a northern college and the development office was very gracious. We received a very interesting tour, lunch and free entrance to a wonderful art museum owned by the college. We made clear to the folks that we were just fulfilling the wishes of the deceased. We explained that the deceased never mentioned the donation to the college, because she didn't want to be pestered. Fortunately, the only stipulation on the donation was that it was to be used for student scholarships as stated in the will. It was nice to receive letters of thanks from the college president and the head of development that the donation would be life-changing for many future students. :D

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by CedarWaxWing » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:49 pm

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am
We are in our mid seventies and live in a very nice 5 Star CCRC That is managed by a nationally known service organization that does a lot of good for sick kids and widows in need. It is tax exempt because of their good works.they, and several others ,to include a Christian college and a catholic service group, are in our wills. Once these groups learned they are in our will, because we mistakenly told them so, they began sending their bequeathing representatives by to talk to us and advise us of the poor and needy who need help....Now! One even honestly said ,when asked, you have more funds than you both will ever need,and we would rather have your money in hand now before expenses and senility take over and drain the well....as it were. I really can’t blame them, but it is irritating. Our reasoning is as the good book implies “ the poor will always be with us.” Meaning after we are gone, the latest poor will benefit from our savings that we steadily accumulated with Vanguard over many years. Just don’t ask us for the money now.
P.S. Do the will, and keep it a secret! Plus ask the lawyer to be the executor, we have sadly found. Because inlaws we designated in the past as the executor began giving us “ ideas” how to spend our hard earned buck$,... now! Very irritating.

SeeMoe.. :annoyed
It is up to you to leave your assets to organizations as you wish, but frankly, this behavior strikes me as an attempt to take advantage of your generosity. It is also very likely that these folks are professional money raisers.. that may well get a cut of your donations.

They have no business suggesting to you that they know what your future or present needs are, and they are effectively putting your financial future at risk with BAD ADVICE that was unsolicited. This behavior is both dishonest, greedy, and borders on elder abuse in my book. They are using the cloak of "religion" to try to get their hands on the funds that you may well need to get adequate care later in life. Please resist, and take care of your own security, not theirs.

Charity navigator is a good place to review a charity. Anyone not in their does not get a dime from me unless I know a great deal about who gets a cut of any donations we make. If the money does not go mostly to those truly in need, or to benefit the public good (i.e. environmental causes and children in need are what I care most about) I find a more honest place to direct the funds toward.

Best,

M

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by CurlyDave » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:55 pm

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am
... Once these groups learned they are in our will, because we mistakenly told them so, they began sending their bequeathing representatives...
I would send a letter to the very top of the organization. In fact, maybe copies to the top 5 in the organization.

Nicely point out that the "vultures" who are gathering are disturbing your peace of mind, and that there are many potential recipients for your final bequests.

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bligh
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by bligh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:16 pm

Personally, If anyone put me in a position where I was even considering threatening to disinherit them, i would disinherit them without any threats or warnings.

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celia
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by celia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:31 pm

In all fairness, it is not because you are living as part of the CCRC that this is happening. Almost any charity that you give a significant amount of money to will continue to ask for donations, regardless of your age or wealth (or lack of it). It is just a fact that those who gave money to the organization in the past are more likely to give again, compared to finding a brand new donor.

Since DH and I know that past charities will continue to mail us asking for donations, we decided to keep the number of charities we support small to avoid an ever-increasing avalanche of mail solicitations. We support causes that resonate with us. Other causes will get a one-time large donation through our estate when we die, but they don't know it yet.

We had a relative in a similar circumstance who was contacted in person. He bluntly told them, "Look, I'll give you what you request this time, but if you ever contact me again, I will cut you out of my will" (although they weren't even listed in it). That ended the requests.

Part of OP's predicament is that they are living in the organization's properties. So it is easy for a personal visit. Some people may enjoy the company, if they rarely have visitors. You, on the other hand, are allowed to tell them, you don't want their visits. You can say you will consider a mailed request, but that is it. Then each year, YOU decide on how much to give, if anything. If they ask for volunteer help, you could provide that instead (reading to someone who can't read, working at the food bank, whatever . . .)

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Sheepdog » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:34 pm

We have our trust with will, etc. set up. Our 2 sons know that they will receive approx. half of our investments. They know the charities where the rest will go and are happy with that. Only one charity knows their bequest and that will be our house. They can dispose of it as they feel fit. That will relieve our sons of the responsibility to prepare it for sale and all the stuff that goes along with it. That is especially important since neither one of them live close to us or even in the same state. We have not told the charities of the money that will come. Besides, I don't have long term care insurance. It could all end up being used for late life care and no one will receive anything.
It's not what you gather, but what you scatter which tells what kind of life you have lived---Helen Walton

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celia
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by celia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am
P.S. Do the will, and keep it a secret! Plus ask the lawyer to be the executor, we have sadly found. Because inlaws we designated in the past as the executor began giving us “ ideas” how to spend our hard earned buck$,... now! Very irritating.
I would never ask a lawyer to be my executor. If you've ever been one, you will realize how much time that takes and they will probably charge the estate a high hourly (lawyer) rate. If you have a house to sell, they might just ask their friendly realtor to sell it quickly, instead of get a fair price for it. This will all be at the expense of your heirs, whether they are people or charities.

If you once asked your in-laws to be an executor and they suggested how to spend the money instead, they apparently didn't realize that the executor's job was to follow the directions in the will. In that case, selecting another person who understands that and is trustworthy is a better choice.

If you told that in-law your net worth or part of it, that was a mistake as the executor does not need to know that until their "job" takes effect. What good is it to tell them now since they could die before you or your net worth could be very different at the time you die?

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by AntsOnTheMarch » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:10 pm

bligh wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:16 pm
Personally, If anyone put me in a position where I was even considering threatening to disinherit them, i would disinherit them without any threats or warnings.
This.

Option #2

Write a note.

Thank them for their concern for YOUR money and inform them that you are concerned about THEIR impatience to get their hands on it. Tell them that you feel for how it’s causing them consternation. Tell them that should they ask again, you will relieve them of their burden by changing your will. This way, they will never again have this dilemma about YOUR money because it will be left to some OTHER needy charity. Mention that it’s terrible that the world has so many needy people but one good thing about it is that there are endless charities competing for your dollars. Include “have a nice day” in the note. I think that they’ll get the message.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by RadAudit » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:14 pm

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm
We were so upset that we did do as you suggested and I bought a red 2018 Mercedes , 385 hp , AMG GLE43 Sports coupe. Wife then did the same getting a white 2018 Mercedes GLE350 suv, and both are loaded too. So there!

SeeMoe..
That helps mitigate one problem!!
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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celia
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by celia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:31 pm

RadAudit wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:14 pm
SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm
We were so upset that we did do as you suggested and I bought a red 2018 Mercedes , 385 hp , AMG GLE43 Sports coupe. Wife then did the same getting a white 2018 Mercedes GLE350 suv, and both are loaded too. So there!

SeeMoe..
That helps mitigate one problem!!
What problem does it mitigate? It certainly won't stop the pestering for money... NOW. In fact it might even exacerbate it if the CCRC sees the car(s) parked on their property.

Maybe Moe needs to "act" like they just lost a lot of net worth. There will be a good opportunity if the markets drop soon.
Last edited by celia on Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David Jay
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by David Jay » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:36 pm

celia wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:31 pm
Since DH and I know that past charities will continue to mail us asking for donations, we decided to keep the number of charities we support small to avoid an ever-increasing avalanche of mail solicitations.
Great comment.

Pick a couple-or-three great causes and support them well. It also improves their bottom line - larger donations from fewer individuals is easier for them to process.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by RadAudit » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:36 pm

celia wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:31 pm
What problem does it mitigate? It certainly won't stop the pestering for money... NOW! In fact it might even exacerbate it.
I would think the next time the solicitor shows up on the doorstep, they could point to the driveway and say "Being of sound mind, we spent it all."
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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celia
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by celia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:50 pm

Another idea for SeeMoe, since he is living on their property, is to intentionally put themselves on mailing lists for other charities. Leave some of the charity mail around their unit if the bequeathing representatives come inside to visit. Get the "free" shopping bags, pens, T-shirts and other promotional items with charity names on them (from the thrift store) and wear/use the items in front of the reps. Give them a pen if they need to write something. Hopefully, they will get the idea that they have competition and the competition isn't knocking on their door all the time and that SeeMoe appreciates that.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by student » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:24 pm

celia wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Another idea for SeeMoe, since he is living on their property, is to intentionally put themselves on mailing lists for other charities. Leave some of the charity mail around their unit if the bequeathing representatives come inside to visit. Get the "free" shopping bags, pens, T-shirts and other promotional items with charity names on them (from the thrift store) and wear/use the items in front of the reps. Give them a pen if they need to write something. Hopefully, they will get the idea that they have competition and the competition isn't knocking on their door all the time and that SeeMoe appreciates that.
On the other hand, when they see competitions, they may double their efforts.

downshiftme
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by downshiftme » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:25 pm

Many years ago, I started a personal rule to only donate anonymously. It doesn't stop the organizations I donate to from soliciting again, since in most cases they do know the money came from me, but keeping my name off of donor lists and thank you acknowledgements has considerably reduced the number of solicitations from new groups I don't know. I suspect they read each others donor lists to seek likely prospects. Occasionally I get caught out and someone will publicly thank me, and inevitably requests for donations uptick shortly thereafter. The scent of money seems to be a powerful motivator.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Gnirk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:41 pm

For the past 12 years, I have donated to the same five charities, and with my donation I include the following note: "I am happy to donate every December, and respectfully request that you do not send me donation requests during the year, because you would be wasting part of my donation. Thank you." I never respond to any donation requests solicited by phone.
So far, so good.

If someone ever approached me as they have the OP, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them they will never receive another donation of any size from me.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:00 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
I completely get how angry these people could make you. If this happened to me, I would immediately change my will to leave the money to our local no-kill animal shelter and send a copy of the new will to those people who showed up on my door.

I don't have issue with people suggesting to me how I should spend my money. My college son tells my wife and me all the time that we should spend our money on ourselves, that he doesn't want anything left to him. I should go out and buy a Porsche 911 GT-3RS. Perhaps this comes from my references of his college costs being about equal with a mid-level, MSRP of a new Lamborghini Huracan.
You have a good son. You and your spouse should treat yourself well. And be nice to the kid too.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Amphian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm

le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:17 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:51 am
In the past, we've been generous with our local food bank, perhaps a bit too generous as now they constantly bombard us with a mailing once per month...
Just a small counterpoint here: I don't see how a piece of mail once per month can be considered "bombarding".

I understand the irritation (and it's easy for me to say since I don't have to deal with much volume of requests at this point), but sometimes I feel people get a mistaken notion that a right to privacy is a right not to be contacted or asked for anything. If having to figure out how to firmly, resolutely, politely-if-possible turn away donation solicitors is a price of comfortable wealth, then I think it's well worth paying.
I think what counts as bombarding depends on the tolerance of people being contacted, their donation pattern, the contact medium, and the request. In my case, I budget and give yearly and only yearly. When I get a request every month asking me to give my yearly amount again, I generally solve that problem by never giving to them again. I also try to find as many opportunities as possible to give anonymously.

I don't even care if I get a thank you for the donation I did make, as long as they don't spam me for more. I'm likely on the low end of tolerance for this, as a hardcore introvert. Mostly, I want the world to leave me alone. :D

This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:15 pm

You give a good warning that you need to be careful about letting people know that 1) you have money and 2) you plan to give it to them. Whether it is a charity or family member or anyone else.

But once you do let them know, and some people do, you owe it to the charity to be clear to them about how you want to be treated. If you don't want their visits, you need to tell them, clearly and directly. "I don't want you to visit, I don't want you to ask for more money, I want to be left alone" is good enough. If they persist, then you have a problem and you can change your plans and let them know why.

If you don't want to hear from an organization you have decided to include in your will, you may well be in the minority, so try to see it from their side as well. Many times donors want to be recognized, thanked, flattered, and courted. It's work. Many donors would change their minds if they were left alone and NOT contacted frequently after letting their bequest plans be known.

So as with all things, it's up to you to make your own decisions and communicate your wishes clearly. And up to the charity to respect those wishes.

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celia
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by celia » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:15 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:15 pm
If you don't want to hear from an organization you have decided to include in your will, you may well be in the minority, so try to see it from their side as well. Many times donors want to be recognized, thanked, flattered, and courted. It's work. Many donors would change their minds if they were left alone and NOT contacted frequently after letting their bequest plans be known.
I would think that most people who have favorite charities, want to hear from them occasionally on how their "mission" is progressing. Are they working in a new geographic location now? have more volunteers? are they meeting their goals?

I'm guessing that SeeMoe still wants to be informed about the project(s) the charity is working on, but not be contacted (in person!) for increasing amounts of donations.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by CedarWaxWing » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:39 pm

A group with a care facility that you reside in should not be soliciting donations from you. That is not ethical, and creates a conflict of interest that is obvious. In some places it is illegal for any caretakers to be soliciting any money or valuables or favors from those in their care.

Silk McCue
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Silk McCue » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:00 pm

SeeMoe

To keep it simple, what they are doing is reprehensible.

Reprehensible - adj Deserving censure or condemnation.

Were someone pulling this cr*p with a dear friend or a loved one of mine there would be hell to pay.

Cheers

le_sacre
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by le_sacre » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm

Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.
Totally nitpicking here: while I do see a right to privacy, but I don't see a right to being appreciated, made to feel comfortable, not be guilt-tripped, etc. I am similarly introverted, and similarly prefer not to be contacted. But I also recognize (cherish, even) the first amendment right that allows people--and the organizations they form--to go ahead and try to make me feel uncomfortable and guilty. I try to keep this in mind and not let it turn me off from generosity. Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.

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SeeMoe
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by SeeMoe » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:30 pm

celia wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:15 pm
NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:15 pm
If you don't want to hear from an organization you have decided to include in your will, you may well be in the minority, so try to see it from their side as well. Many times donors want to be recognized, thanked, flattered, and courted. It's work. Many donors would change their minds if they were left alone and NOT contacted frequently after letting their bequest plans be known.
I would think that most people who have favorite charities, want to hear from them occasionally on how their "mission" is progressing. Are they working in a new geographic location now? have more volunteers? are they meeting their goals?

I'm guessing that SeeMoe still wants to be informed about the project(s) the charity is working on, but not be contacted (in person!) for increasing amounts of donations.
Very well put, Celia. At first we were flattered and even appreciative of the solicitors actually stopping by to talk with us until it dawned that they preferred to have the bequeath now! One even hinted that it was a long way to a motel and it was late evening. We got the hint, and said the guest bedroom is the sole domain of our two precious Siamese cats! Then he abruptly said goid night and goodby.

SeeMoe.. :wink:
"By gnawing through a dike, even a Rat can destroy a nation ." {Edmund Burke}

longleaf
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by longleaf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:37 pm

le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm
Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.
Precisely. It almost seems that your donation is being used entirely to send out those tightly-packed envelopes that move directly from mailbox to shredder.

If my beneficiaries had recently discovered their title and asked for money suddenly, then I would likely have a change of heart.
Frugality, indexing, time.

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friar1610
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by friar1610 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:53 pm

We have arranged to leave enough money to fund a scholarship to a school after we die. To set up the scholarship we needed to let the school in on the plan because we wanted to make sure they would accept the provisions attached to the scolarship. Although we still receive mailings for their normal annual fund drive (which we have received and responded to for many years) we have gotten no additional solicitations as a result of the bequest. In fact, we have received invitations to campus events such as lectures, athletic events, etc. that we had not received in the past. One could cynically say this is a subtle form of fund-raising but I prefer to see it as the school just showing its appreciation in a way that's simple for them and appreciated by us. We have not once been solicited to increase the scholarship amount, donate it earlier or anything of that sort. YMMV.
Friar1610

mayhapbh
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by mayhapbh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:26 pm

Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:17 pm
I also try to find as many opportunities as possible to give anonymously.
Using a Donor Advised Fund may provide that sort of opportunity. You fund the Fund; the Fund can (usually) transmit money to the charity without mentioning you.
This post is not advice of any kind -- legal, financial, etc. -- and you should not rely on it.

Charlieville
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Charlieville » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:36 pm

Never give to charity through your will unless you are not giving to any heirs. The charities will make your heir's life miserable and they have lots of lawyers to tie up the estate for a long long time. Give to the charity before you die.

Amphian
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Amphian » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:07 am

le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm
Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.
Totally nitpicking here: while I do see a right to privacy, but I don't see a right to being appreciated, made to feel comfortable, not be guilt-tripped, etc. I am similarly introverted, and similarly prefer not to be contacted. But I also recognize (cherish, even) the first amendment right that allows people--and the organizations they form--to go ahead and try to make me feel uncomfortable and guilty. I try to keep this in mind and not let it turn me off from generosity. Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.
To me, part of what you "buy" with a donation is their not making you uncomfortable. Masochists may like paying to be abused, but I don't think most other people do. :D You are right in that it probably doesn't count as a "right".

First amendment rights don't actually apply on private property, I believe. Otherwise the OP could have them camped on his front lawn with signs saying he needs to donate more.

Dottie57
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:31 am

le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm
Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.
Totally nitpicking here: while I do see a right to privacy, but I don't see a right to being appreciated, made to feel comfortable, not be guilt-tripped, etc. I am similarly introverted, and similarly prefer not to be contacted. But I also recognize (cherish, even) the first amendment right that allows people--and the organizations they form--to go ahead and try to make me feel uncomfortable and guilty. I try to keep this in mind and not let it turn me off from generosity. Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.
There is freedom of political speech and protection from government interference. Commercial speech is not protected

Freedom of (political) speech does not force anyone to listen.

ColoRetiredGirl
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by ColoRetiredGirl » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:47 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:44 am
If they keep pestering, tell them that with another visit or suggestion they will be disinherited.

It is YOUR money.

And YES you can blame them.
Ditto! How dare they bother you now. It is disrespectful IMHO!

Dottie57
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:48 am

ColoRetiredGirl wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:47 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:44 am
If they keep pestering, tell them that with another visit or suggestion they will be disinherited.

It is YOUR money.

And YES you can blame them.
Ditto! How dare they bother you now. It is disrespectful IMHO!
In essence , they were telling OP he and wife have too much $. Which is absurd. LTC may be needed...

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Mel Lindauer » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:36 am

WARNING: I've had to remove a large number of posts that contained religious comments and argued various interpretations of the Bible. Any further religious posts and this thread will be locked.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:20 pm

Let me explain in detail. Religion is a highly contentious topic - much more so than politics. Religious comments usually result in contentious disagreement, which is more work for the moderators.To keep the moderators sane, we put this policy in place.

It's not to promote any particular viewpoint, but to keep the peace and is the reason for the first sentence in Politics and Religion:
UNACCEPTABLE TOPICS

Politics and Religion

In order to avoid the inevitable frictions that arise from these topics, political or religious posts and comments are prohibited.
The only exceptions to this rule are:
  • Common religious expressions such as sending your prayers to an ailing member.
  • Usage of factual and non-derogatory political labels when necessary to the discussion at hand.
  • Discussions about enacted laws or regulations that affect the individual investor. Note that discussions of proposed legislation are prohibited.
  • Proposed regulations that are directly related to investing may be discussed if and when they are published for public comments.
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by TSR » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:20 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:31 am
le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm
Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.
Totally nitpicking here: while I do see a right to privacy, but I don't see a right to being appreciated, made to feel comfortable, not be guilt-tripped, etc. I am similarly introverted, and similarly prefer not to be contacted. But I also recognize (cherish, even) the first amendment right that allows people--and the organizations they form--to go ahead and try to make me feel uncomfortable and guilty. I try to keep this in mind and not let it turn me off from generosity. Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.
There is freedom of political speech and protection from government interference. Commercial speech is not protected

Freedom of (political) speech does not force anyone to listen.
Lawyer here. Commercial speech is absolutely protected under the First Amendment, just not (quite) to the degree that political speech is. (For a fairly simplistic explanation, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_speech.) Although I haven't done enough research to say this for certain, I'd suspect that the solicitations of non-profits that might be political in nature (or religious, or just socially minded) would have First-Amendment protections almost equal to political speech.

I also agree with everyone else that this is pretty obnoxious.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:42 pm

TSR wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:20 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:31 am
le_sacre wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:04 pm
Amphian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:02 pm
This isn't as much about a right to privacy as a right to be appreciated for the donations you feel comfortable making and not have them attempt to guilt you for the endless amount of money they want you to give. Think of it as the same as the coworker who only wants to hang out when you are the one buying the coffee. At some point, it's just annoying and you feel used.
Totally nitpicking here: while I do see a right to privacy, but I don't see a right to being appreciated, made to feel comfortable, not be guilt-tripped, etc. I am similarly introverted, and similarly prefer not to be contacted. But I also recognize (cherish, even) the first amendment right that allows people--and the organizations they form--to go ahead and try to make me feel uncomfortable and guilty. I try to keep this in mind and not let it turn me off from generosity. Though like others here, I do tend to donate to organizations that I reach out to deliberately, rather than any of the ones spamming me.
There is freedom of political speech and protection from government interference. Commercial speech is not protected

Freedom of (political) speech does not force anyone to listen.
Lawyer here. Commercial speech is absolutely protected under the First Amendment, just not (quite) to the degree that political speech is. (For a fairly simplistic explanation, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_speech.) Although I haven't done enough research to say this for certain, I'd suspect that the solicitations of non-profits that might be political in nature (or religious, or just socially minded) would have First-Amendment protections almost equal to political speech.

I also agree with everyone else that this is pretty obnoxious.
Ok.

But freedom of speech does not guarantee an audience.

Newspapers do not have to carry ads or news stories if it doesn't fit.

I think the basic protection of speech is from Government entities.

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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by daveydoo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:57 pm

SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am

...Once these groups learned they are in our will, because we mistakenly told them so, they began sending their bequeathing representatives by to talk to us and advise us of the poor and needy who need help....Now! One even honestly said ,when asked, you have more funds than you both will ever need,and we would rather have your money in hand now before expenses and senility take over and drain the well....as it were. I
I'm sure it's in the thread above but this is unscrupulous conduct. I would look them up on an impartial evaluator like Charity Navigator and see how "good" they really are -- how much they waste on fund-raising and how much they (over)pay their leadership. If one of the organizations we donate to starting doing this, they would never get another penny from us.

Charities are like companies -- lots of folks "invest" in Starbucks because they like the stores and they like the coffee. But that's not what makes a "good" investment. There are charities that talk the talk about saving the world but mostly save themselves. The conduct you're describing sounds like the latter, sorry to say. Time to re-assess your estate plan, imo.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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SeeMoe
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by SeeMoe » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:29 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:57 pm
SeeMoe wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:41 am

...Once these groups learned they are in our will, because we mistakenly told them so, they began sending their bequeathing representatives by to talk to us and advise us of the poor and needy who need help....Now! One even honestly said ,when asked, you have more funds than you both will ever need,and we would rather have your money in hand now before expenses and senility take over and drain the well....as it were. I
I'm sure it's in the thread above but this is unscrupulous conduct. I would look them up on an impartial evaluator like Charity Navigator and see how "good" they really are -- how much they waste on fund-raising and how much they (over)pay their leadership. If one of the organizations we donate to starting doing this, they would never get another penny from us.

Charities are like companies -- lots of folks "invest" in Starbucks because they like the stores and they like the coffee. But that's not what makes a "good" investment. There are charities that talk the talk about saving the world but mostly save themselves. The conduct you're describing sounds like the latter, sorry to say. Time to re-assess your estate plan, imo.
Thank you Daveydoo. It’s not as bad as that. We did drop one charity, and straightened out a CFP at the other regards us keeping our money until we pass on. I mention this because we were unprepared for the unwanted soliciting from these people and now we think it must be standard practice to visit with donors who make them aware they are in the will? Funny thing happened recently in that the wife received a call from the one we dropped and the caller says we have a little gift for you. When told they are not longer in the will, he said “ oh, that’s to bad, can’t give you the gift now.” Really hilarious....

SeeMoe.. :o
"By gnawing through a dike, even a Rat can destroy a nation ." {Edmund Burke}

white_water
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Re: “The Smell of Retiree Mon$y...”

Post by white_water » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:18 pm

It sounds as if the solicitor may be on commission as another poster suggested.

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