Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

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TravelGeek
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm

In many years as a manager at a large technology company I have never walked anyone the same day nor have I seen anyone getting walked to the door the same day even if they went to a direct competitor (which is very common). So it very much depends on the company. I have also never understood what those companies that do have the "walk out the door" policy are thinking they are accomplishing. Protecting their proprietary information would hardly be the goal since the departing employee could have siphoned stuff prior to giving notice. So perhaps not exposing the remaining employees for two weeks to the departing employee and giving them opportunity to learn about the greener grass elsewhere? Not sure that that is terribly effective.

As a manager I very much prefer a two week window to transition tasks/information.

Looking4Answers
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Looking4Answers » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:28 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm
In many years as a manager at a large technology company I have never walked anyone the same day nor have I seen anyone getting walked to the door the same day even if they went to a direct competitor (which is very common). So it very much depends on the company. I have also never understood what those companies that do have the "walk out the door" policy are thinking they are accomplishing. Protecting their proprietary information would hardly be the goal since the departing employee could have siphoned stuff prior to giving notice. So perhaps not exposing the remaining employees for two weeks to the departing employee and giving them opportunity to learn about the greener grass elsewhere? Not sure that that is terribly effective.

As a manager I very much prefer a two week window to transition tasks/information.
Trust me, if anyone works at this company they know the grass is greener elsewhere.

Finridge
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Finridge » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:47 pm

Remember that COBRA gives you a kind of grace period. Subject to the deadline, you can elect to be covered retroactively. I have used this to "cover" the gap between employers. I had a completed COBRA application that I gave to someone I trusted with instructions to make sure that it got sent in if I ended up in the hospital with a coma or something.

For more information, see this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=243598

snowman
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by snowman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:48 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm
In many years as a manager at a large technology company I have never walked anyone the same day nor have I seen anyone getting walked to the door the same day even if they went to a direct competitor (which is very common). So it very much depends on the company. I have also never understood what those companies that do have the "walk out the door" policy are thinking they are accomplishing. Protecting their proprietary information would hardly be the goal since the departing employee could have siphoned stuff prior to giving notice. So perhaps not exposing the remaining employees for two weeks to the departing employee and giving them opportunity to learn about the greener grass elsewhere? Not sure that that is terribly effective.

As a manager I very much prefer a two week window to transition tasks/information.
Couple points to your post.

1. It really is industry specific - my wife has never experienced nor heard about such practice in her industry. In mine, it was very common, and everyone understood the rules of the game.

Which brings me to point #2. I always told my best people (as those are the ones most likely to bolt) to give me advanced notice. I did the same to my manager. There was certain level of trust among us - everyone understood even 2 weeks wasn't enough for proper transition, but it was the least we could do.

I agree with you, it never made sense to me either, but that's how the system was designed. One of many reasons I left corporate world altogether.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:50 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm
In many years as a manager at a large technology company I have never walked anyone the same day nor have I seen anyone getting walked to the door the same day even if they went to a direct competitor (which is very common). So it very much depends on the company. I have also never understood what those companies that do have the "walk out the door" policy are thinking they are accomplishing. Protecting their proprietary information would hardly be the goal since the departing employee could have siphoned stuff prior to giving notice. So perhaps not exposing the remaining employees for two weeks to the departing employee and giving them opportunity to learn about the greener grass elsewhere? Not sure that that is terribly effective.

As a manager I very much prefer a two week window to transition tasks/information.
While the individual could have siphoned off PIAA prior to giving notice - a lot of folks won't - sometimes they are looking at 2 or 3 opportunities and only choose/sign an offer for a competing company just prior to giving notice. Collecting some information before they leave becomes an afterthought. There have been instances of folks caught leaving with PIAA after giving notice in megacorps thus the policy.
Also - you have a good point about not wanting someone hanging around poisoning others minds.
My company has the policy which I have personally broken when I have trusted someone and need some time for them to transition their information and tasks (in other cases I adhered to the policy - always paid the 2 weeks + Benefits). In one case I had someone simply call me on a Monday and say "Since our company has a policy of walking folks out the door when going to a competitor I stopped by over the weekend and left my laptop and badge on my desk for you to pick up. I quit." Since they didn't give me 2 weeks notice I felt no obligation to pay them the two weeks and simply terminated them immediately.
I've had really good employees give me a 3 weeks to a month notice. Those folks I will always hire back.

Thesaints
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Thesaints » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:53 pm

If they can release you with no notice, you are under no obligation to give them an advance notice.

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sergeant
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by sergeant » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:55 pm

I can't believe people let themselves be led out while leaving personal items behind. I wouldn't allow it. I don't like people touching my stuff.
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dustinst22
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by dustinst22 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm

I did something similar. Definitely have a contract signed first. Expect to get a counter offer (very likely). Get ready to play a strong negotiation game.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:57 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:53 pm
If they can release you with no notice, you are under no obligation to give them an advance notice.
This is a pretty good percentage of Corporate America - "employment at will" is pretty much the norm. However, expectation of 2 weeks notice is also still the norm.

If you are sure you will never return to the company; or work for anyone in the management chain if they end up at another company; or work for another company where someone in HR could land; feel free leave with no notice. You could be burning a lot of bridges.

ResearchMed
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:59 pm

sergeant wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:55 pm
I can't believe people let themselves be led out while leaving personal items behind. I wouldn't allow it. I don't like people touching my stuff.
It's not up to the employee in these situations.
Security would be called if there is any "problem", and Security might be called routinely for the "escort".

The "solution" is to remove all personal items (that you don't want "touched") and any contact info for friends/colleagues there, etc., *before* you give the notice.

RM
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DaftInvestor
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:01 pm

Captain kangaroo wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 pm
Why bother giving two weeks notice?

Pack your stuff bring it to your car, and come back in and say you quit.

Giving two weeks is about not burning bridges and being respectful. This kinda goes out the window though when you're crossing the bridge to join a group of people who want the bridge to burn. Company A won't give a good reference regardless of the two weeks notice because you're joining competition.
This isn't necessarily true. I've had people leave me to go to a competitor - realize they made a mistake - and then call and ask for a reference to a third company. I have no problem doing so if they were a good employee and had a valid reason for going to a place where they thought the grass was greener.
You should err on the side of NOT burning bridges.

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dm200
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by dm200 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:07 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:01 pm
Captain kangaroo wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 pm
Why bother giving two weeks notice?

Pack your stuff bring it to your car, and come back in and say you quit.

Giving two weeks is about not burning bridges and being respectful. This kinda goes out the window though when you're crossing the bridge to join a group of people who want the bridge to burn. Company A won't give a good reference regardless of the two weeks notice because you're joining competition.
This isn't necessarily true. I've had people leave me to go to a competitor - realize they made a mistake - and then call and ask for a reference to a third company. I have no problem doing so if they were a good employee and had a valid reason for going to a place where they thought the grass was greener.
You should err on the side of NOT burning bridges.
Yes -

Thesaints
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Thesaints » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:09 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:57 pm
Thesaints wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:53 pm
If they can release you with no notice, you are under no obligation to give them an advance notice.
This is a pretty good percentage of Corporate America - "employment at will" is pretty much the norm. However, expectation of 2 weeks notice is also still the norm.

If you are sure you will never return to the company; or work for anyone in the management chain if they end up at another company; or work for another company where someone in HR could land; feel free leave with no notice. You could be burning a lot of bridges.
Whereas those bridges stay intact when they escort you out ?

tim1999
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by tim1999 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:12 pm

I think this "but if you don't give two weeks you might not get a positive reference!" business is mostly fear mongering from HR types. My current Fortune 500 employer and other megacorps I'm familiar with, when receiving employment reference inquiries on past employees, only indicate dates of employment and position. They don't ramble on about how the former employee was a "jerk" for not giving two weeks notice when leaving.

I'll add that the last time I quit a megacorp job, I did give two weeks notice, because that employer's unofficial policy is that they don't walk you out immediately unless you are involuntarily terminated, and you only get paid if you stay for the notice period. I had been preparing for the transition well before I gave notice, so I'd say that about 6 of my last 10 days in the office involved doing pretty much nothing, and coming in late/leaving early.

TravelGeek
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:19 pm

tim1999 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:12 pm
I think this "but if you don't give two weeks you might not get a positive reference!" business is mostly fear mongering from HR types. My current Fortune 500 employer and other megacorps I'm familiar with, when receiving employment reference inquiries on past employees, only indicate dates of employment and position. They don't ramble on about how the former employee was a "jerk" for not giving two weeks notice when leaving.
Sure, that is the official "reference" HR gives at my company, and managers are not allowed to offer actual references (which is silly because we are expected to check references when considering a candidate for hire). Let's just say that good managers will not necessarily follow that policy for good former employees. (bad former employees have never asked to be a reference)

TravelGeek
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 pm

snowman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:48 pm
Couple points to your post.

1. It really is industry specific - my wife has never experienced nor heard about such practice in her industry. In mine, it was very common, and everyone understood the rules of the game.
Perhaps even more company-specific. I have definitely heard about this policy from other companies in my industry.

It's also a bit inconsistent because when it comes to RIFs, my employer is pretty brutal. Same day departure, benefits end same day midnight.
Which brings me to point #2. I always told my best people (as those are the ones most likely to bolt) to give me advanced notice. I did the same to my manager. There was certain level of trust among us - everyone understood even 2 weeks wasn't enough for proper transition, but it was the least we could do.
Yes, indeed. I have had several trusted employees give me an early warning. When I leave (for the famous competitor FIRE), I will give my manager sufficient notice and advise him that if he needs more time, I am (within reason) okay with that.

Thesaints
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Thesaints » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:26 pm

Again, would this good manager ready to go above and beyond to give you a personalized reference be the very same one that chases you out as dog as soon as you inform him of a competitor's offer ?

TravelGeek
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by TravelGeek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:28 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:26 pm
Again, would this good manager ready to go above and beyond to give you a personalized reference be the very same one that chases you out as dog as soon as you inform him of a competitor's offer ?
What a good manager does for references may be under her control while the departure policy may very well be strict corporate policy. I can take a reference call without HR being aware of it, but I probably can't transition projects from a soon-to-be-departing employee without others knowing what is going on.

snowman
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by snowman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:56 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:09 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:57 pm
Thesaints wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:53 pm
If they can release you with no notice, you are under no obligation to give them an advance notice.
This is a pretty good percentage of Corporate America - "employment at will" is pretty much the norm. However, expectation of 2 weeks notice is also still the norm.

If you are sure you will never return to the company; or work for anyone in the management chain if they end up at another company; or work for another company where someone in HR could land; feel free leave with no notice. You could be burning a lot of bridges.
Whereas those bridges stay intact when they escort you out ?
Correct, they stay intact. You shouldn't confuse burning bridges with company policy. I will provide several examples.

I had an employee like DaftInvestors who quit over email with no prior warning, citing "walk out" policy. I terminated him immediately, just like DaftInvestor. He didn't get paid. He was put on "no hire" list in the future. He burned the bridge.

I had an employee who said he is going to company X (our direct competitor). I followed the rules, walked him out the door. He got paid his 2 weeks. Couple months later we found out he went to a different company (it's a small world-who knew!). He lied to me. He burned the bridge with me and my company. His manager found out about the lie and wasn't pleased. He burned several bridges.

I had a guy, probably my most productive employee ever, who wondered how I will plug the hole if he leaves. I told him to give me heads up when he starts looking, because I knew 2 weeks wouldn't be enough. We had good working relationship and I trusted him in this regard (obviously, the word stayed with me, he would have been walked out the door if the word spread). He kept his promise, so I had more time to start looking for replacement. Once he gave his 2 week notice, I knew who I was going to hire, and had transition plan in place. The bridge was strengthened, not burned.

I did exactly the same to my manager - no friends, but really good working relationship. He trusted me, and I trusted him. None of us wanted to get burned. He knew who he will hire once I give my 2 week notice. He even asked me to interview my future replacement, and wanted my feedback. Those relationships remained very strong over the years!

Thesaints
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Thesaints » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:03 pm

snowman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:56 pm
I had an employee who said he is going to company X (our direct competitor). I followed the rules, walked him out the door. He got paid his 2 weeks. C
If you get walked out but still paid (total compensation style) it is the same as if you had been not walked out and allowed to remain 2 weeks.
What I was addressing is instead the case of being walked out and dumped on the sidewalk. If they don't give you any advance notice, nor equivalent compensation, you can certainly do the same and it is a little naive to expect that people with whom you separate on rather bad terms will give you good references or rehire you at a later date. If they tossed you on the street it is not because you were a well-liked and appreciated employee.

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FIREchief
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by FIREchief » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:52 pm

IIRC, federal law governing COBRA allows the ex-employee 60 days to select it, with coverage retroactive to the termination date. That means you shouldn't have to worry about a gap in coverage (the IRS also allows up to two months gap in coverage during unemployment prior to imposing the ACA penalty). The kay is to have the COBRA acceptance letter signed, sealed and ready for mailing. That way if you wind up in the hospital in a coma, your family can send in the COBRA documents to initiate retroactive coverage.

I would only give a two week notice if my current employer has a strong history of favorable reactions, or a written policy that guarantees the final two weeks of pay. If in doubt, just inform your boss the morning of the last day of work. Even if they walk you to the door, the FLSA requires a salaried employee to be paid a full day for any day that they work for even a minute.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

lostdog
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by lostdog » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:57 pm

All great advice. My only advice is to remember that HR is not your friend.
Hear the clock ticking? That’s your life flying by while you listen to market pundits and watch stock prices fluctuate. -Humble Dollar

cherijoh
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by cherijoh » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:18 pm

snowman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:48 pm
TravelGeek wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 pm
In many years as a manager at a large technology company I have never walked anyone the same day nor have I seen anyone getting walked to the door the same day even if they went to a direct competitor (which is very common). So it very much depends on the company. I have also never understood what those companies that do have the "walk out the door" policy are thinking they are accomplishing. Protecting their proprietary information would hardly be the goal since the departing employee could have siphoned stuff prior to giving notice. So perhaps not exposing the remaining employees for two weeks to the departing employee and giving them opportunity to learn about the greener grass elsewhere? Not sure that that is terribly effective.

As a manager I very much prefer a two week window to transition tasks/information.
Couple points to your post.

1. It really is industry specific - my wife has never experienced nor heard about such practice in her industry. In mine, it was very common, and everyone understood the rules of the game.

Which brings me to point #2. I always told my best people (as those are the ones most likely to bolt) to give me advanced notice. I did the same to my manager. There was certain level of trust among us - everyone understood even 2 weeks wasn't enough for proper transition, but it was the least we could do.

I agree with you, it never made sense to me either, but that's how the system was designed. One of many reasons I left corporate world altogether.
Someone I worked with who was in IT was leaving to go to a competitor. He tried to give his manager 2 weeks notice and she told him - "I didn't hear that. If you were to tell me you were leaving I'd have to let HR know and you would be walked out the door". So he waited two weeks, put in his two week notice for real and was walked out the door. This was a Friday and he started his new job on Monday. He did get paid for the 2 weeks.

I just retired from the same company and told them I was somewhat flexible on my retirement date so that I could do a smooth transition on my projects. I wasn't sure if i would also be walked out the door, but we negotiated 5 weeks. Go figure.

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jharkin
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by jharkin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:44 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:03 am
Looking4Answers wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:52 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:26 am
We have a policy at my company of walking people out the door if they are going to a direct competitor BUT we still pay them and provide them with their benefits for the two weeks as if they are still working for us.
Or course you have the option not to disclose as well.
That would be ideal in this instance. DH is working under "at-will" employment. My guess was that the company would use this to not pay them for remaining time?
My company is still "At-Will" but employees and companies still adhere to the 2-weeks notice tradition.
Contrary to popular believe here on Bogleheads most companies aren't inherently evil and will do the right thing. If someone gives two weeks notice most companies, even for at-will employment, will honor the two weeks by paying the employee for the remaining two weeks - even if they walk you out the door. They want prior employees to also feel they weren't mistreated in any way (this is one of the rating criteria on sites such as Glassdoor).
+1 I work for a mid cap software firm, and I have never seen anyone who voluntarily resigned walked out. Usually people give 2 weeks and work through to facilitate transition, or burn up vacation. Some senior (VP and up) folks I know had longer transitions up to a month.

tesuzuki2002
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:47 pm

Looking4Answers wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:45 am
DH has had a job offer and plans to give two weeks notice (probably today once he gets formal offer letter). However, he is going to work for a direct competitor to his present employer. He was advised by the person conducting his job interview that under these circumstances there is a strong likelihood that he will immediately be asked to turn in any company property and be walked to the door. We have questions about health insurance, etc., which we will be checking into directly with the insurance company. However, since this is all happening so quickly I would welcome any suggestions as to what he might should do immediately (contacting HR regarding anything pertinent in this situation, etc.) I feel there is a strong likelihood that there may be a scenario that is a cross between leaving today and staying the two full weeks. His immediate supervisor would probably want him to stay the full two weeks, but as news of his leaving moves up the chain of command the "escort to the door" could happen at any time between now and the full two weeks. Any advice is welcome.

A quick search on the Internet give conflicting information as to short term coverage between jobs. Will be researching that more and may post more questions later. Will need to see exactly when his coverage starts with new employer.

Understand the concern. Why tell the current employer where he is going to work?? I don't see that are relevant to the circumstance. if they are not going to give him his 2 weeks to transition work... then don't give them 2 weeks? Just tell them in 2 weeks and walk out. If the move to this competitor is burning a bridge.. there won't be any easy way to do it.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm

random_walker_77 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:07 am
Looking4Answers wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:52 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:26 am
We have a policy at my company of walking people out the door if they are going to a direct competitor BUT we still pay them and provide them with their benefits for the two weeks as if they are still working for us.
Or course you have the option not to disclose as well.
That would be ideal in this instance. DH is working under "at-will" employment. My guess was that the company would use this to not pay them for remaining time?
At-will employment cuts both ways though. If the company is known to terminate upon receiving notice and not pay out the 2 weeks, then IMO, you're no longer obligated to give 2 weeks notice. If they're going to walk you out immediately, but keep paying the 2 weeks, then that's perfectly fair.

It's best to find out ahead of time what the company's policy and/or past behavior has been. And make sure you're prepared for the worst case of immediate termination.
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.

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sergeant
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by sergeant » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:51 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:59 pm
sergeant wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:55 pm
I can't believe people let themselves be led out while leaving personal items behind. I wouldn't allow it. I don't like people touching my stuff.
It's not up to the employee in these situations.
Security would be called if there is any "problem", and Security might be called routinely for the "escort".

The "solution" is to remove all personal items (that you don't want "touched") and any contact info for friends/colleagues there, etc., *before* you give the notice.

RM
Absent a court order it sure is up to the employee, at least in California. The employee has a right to his personal property and the time to gather it.

Most people just go along with it and get walked out but I have been on dozens of calls for service when they refuse. Us cops standby and keep the peace giving the person adequate time to gather their property. They aren't subject to arrest cause they're not doing anything illegal as long as they are just collecting their own property. Some freak out and start damaging employer property and making threats, They generally went to jail.
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whodidntante
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by whodidntante » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:57 pm

If you are being walked to the door, my suggestion is: strut.

ResearchMed
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm

sergeant wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:51 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:59 pm
sergeant wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:55 pm
I can't believe people let themselves be led out while leaving personal items behind. I wouldn't allow it. I don't like people touching my stuff.
It's not up to the employee in these situations.
Security would be called if there is any "problem", and Security might be called routinely for the "escort".

The "solution" is to remove all personal items (that you don't want "touched") and any contact info for friends/colleagues there, etc., *before* you give the notice.

RM
Absent a court order it sure is up to the employee, at least in California. The employee has a right to his personal property and the time to gather it.

Most people just go along with it and get walked out but I have been on dozens of calls for service when they refuse. Us cops standby and keep the peace giving the person adequate time to gather their property. They aren't subject to arrest cause they're not doing anything illegal as long as they are just collecting their own property. Some freak out and start damaging employer property and making threats, They generally went to jail.
I'm not talking about what is legal.
I'm referring to the reality of what will happen in certain companies under a "getting walked to the door" situation.
Security certainly could be called.
An Employee could contest it later, but "in the moment", it's going to be "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)".

Yes, I've seen it happen, as seems to be the case with several others here.
Now, admittedly, I have *not* seen what would happen if an Employee stood his/her ground and said, "Nope, I'm not leaving just yet, I *am* going to go through my things and gather up what is mine", etc.

Note that in some cases, there could be a concern that the Employee might be taking materials that are confidential/protected intellectual property, etc. Whether the Employee is entitled to remove such items is unlikely to be resolved properly in the moment...

RM
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by lthenderson » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:13 pm

Sometimes the unexpected happens. The best pay raise I ever got came the day after I gave my two week notice. I stayed around the original company for a couple more years and then got walked out the door without advance notice during some massive layoffs though they did give me an hour to pack up my stuff under supervision. Fortunately I had seen it coming and was already interviewing for the next job.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by madbrain » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:32 am

randomizer wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:48 am
This is why it is better to give notice on the 1st of the month and not the 30th. (That way you get health insurance coverage for the whole month.)
If you give notice on the 1st and give 2 weeks notice, you will usually get only 2 weeks of free insurance
Giving 2-weeks notice on the 16-17th day of the month would cause you to have a month of free insurance.
This is all assuming that the insurance terminates at the end of the month, which I don't think is legally mandated. Each employer likely sets their own policy. I believe the coverage could end on the last day of employment as well, if that's company policy.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by madbrain » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:36 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.
That might not be legal in some states, like California.
My employer changed to "unlimited vacation", which really means at the discretion of your manager, and there is no longer any account. And if you leave for any reason, there is no vacation balance for the employer to pay out, and nothing on the employer liability balance. Those Megacorp accountants sure know what they are doing.

Morale of the story: take a long vacation, then give 2 weeks notice the day you come back.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by mac808 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm
I'm not talking about what is legal.
I'm referring to the reality of what will happen in certain companies under a "getting walked to the door" situation.
Security certainly could be called.
An Employee could contest it later, but "in the moment", it's going to be "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)".

Yes, I've seen it happen, as seems to be the case with several others here.
Now, admittedly, I have *not* seen what would happen if an Employee stood his/her ground and said, "Nope, I'm not leaving just yet, I *am* going to go through my things and gather up what is mine", etc.

Note that in some cases, there could be a concern that the Employee might be taking materials that are confidential/protected intellectual property, etc. Whether the Employee is entitled to remove such items is unlikely to be resolved properly in the moment...

RM
Absent a physical threat against themselves or others, corporate security guards (who are not sworn officers) have very little actual authority to do anything. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)". If you mean that the officers could intimidate the employee into leaving, that is certainly possible. If you mean the officers could physically impose themselves upon a polite but uncooperative employee who refused to leave without personal items, then that is possible but would open the officers up to charges of assault (unlikely) and the employer up to huge civil liability, especially if any injuries resulted (likely).

An appropriate response in California would be for the employee to politely refuse to leave without their personal items, and to suggest that actual police officers be called in to mediate if necessary. An officer will respond and if well-trained, that officer will likely mediate between the parties, and generally resolve the situation. I've seen this happen before. I've even seen one case where both the employee and the employer called the police department, which dispatched two officers (one for each caller). The officers worked together to resolve the dispute to everyone's satisfaction. I was very impressed by their professionalism in that instance.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by 3feetpete » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:24 am

If you work and have insurance available through your employer it may be possible to obtain coverage there even though it is mid year. My wife's insurance allows mid year adds if other insurance is lost so I suspect this is common.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am

mac808 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm
I'm not talking about what is legal.
I'm referring to the reality of what will happen in certain companies under a "getting walked to the door" situation.
Security certainly could be called.
An Employee could contest it later, but "in the moment", it's going to be "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)".

Yes, I've seen it happen, as seems to be the case with several others here.
Now, admittedly, I have *not* seen what would happen if an Employee stood his/her ground and said, "Nope, I'm not leaving just yet, I *am* going to go through my things and gather up what is mine", etc.

Note that in some cases, there could be a concern that the Employee might be taking materials that are confidential/protected intellectual property, etc. Whether the Employee is entitled to remove such items is unlikely to be resolved properly in the moment...

RM
Absent a physical threat against themselves or others, corporate security guards (who are not sworn officers) have very little actual authority to do anything. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)". If you mean that the officers could intimidate the employee into leaving, that is certainly possible. If you mean the officers could physically impose themselves upon a polite but uncooperative employee who refused to leave without personal items, then that is possible but would open the officers up to charges of assault (unlikely) and the employer up to huge civil liability, especially if any injuries resulted (likely).

An appropriate response in California would be for the employee to politely refuse to leave without their personal items, and to suggest that actual police officers be called in to mediate if necessary. An officer will respond and if well-trained, that officer will likely mediate between the parties, and generally resolve the situation. I've seen this happen before. I've even seen one case where both the employee and the employer called the police department, which dispatched two officers (one for each caller). The officers worked together to resolve the dispute to everyone's satisfaction. I was very impressed by their professionalism in that instance.
That's exactly what I mean.

When someone is surprised with a "It's over; we'll walk you to the door NOW"... they are unlikely to know what their full rights are, when Security (one or more persons, and it would likely be more than one at the first sign of "resistance") are looming... No threats are needed.
(But unfortunately, that doesn't mean that no threats would be made...)
It's a very stressful situation without worrying about what is/is not actually allowed.
And I'm sure that it's possible for verbal intimidation such as "Do you want us to call the Police?"

The Employee is not necessarily going to know that "The Police" would be on their side and not on the Employer's side, etc.

I'm sure the Police are usually very professional indeed.
But the problem is... what is the state of Employee's mind, and how is Security handled, etc.

Yes, I've seen "Security LOOMING" over a shaking Employee who was startled and distraught, simply trying to put a coat on...

No way does someone like that know their rights, and to be clear, I don't fully know what the terms of my employment actually were when I worked at MegaCorp.
Actually, for all I know, maybe there really *was* a clause stating that I needed to leave immediately, and they'd mail "my stuff" to me.
Point is, I just don't know if there ever was such a clause, and I suspect I'm not alone...
And IF "Security" was indeed looming, claiming that's "how it is going to be"...?
Or worse, if they DID make threats about "trespassing" or even "arrest"... what is a typical Employee going to do?

What is legal or right is not always known to all parties, and when it is very stressful, people don't always carefully think through "gee, what is going on, is this *right*, or should I insist otherwise..."

Otherwise, it would probably never be the case that any Employee allowed themselves to be walked out the door without first calmly and carefully going through all office stuff, selecting what was "theirs".
And... who would, at that moment, determine if "that notebook", or computer disk, really belongs to the Employee, or contains proprietary info that the Employee has no right to remove?

RM
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by randomizer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am

madbrain wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:36 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.
That might not be legal in some states, like California.
My employer changed to "unlimited vacation", which really means at the discretion of your manager, and there is no longer any account. And if you leave for any reason, there is no vacation balance for the employer to pay out, and nothing on the employer liability balance. Those Megacorp accountants sure know what they are doing.

Morale of the story: take a long vacation, then give 2 weeks notice the day you come back.
I am planning on doing exactly this, although I feel like a bit of a schmuck about it.
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:03 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:52 am
mac808 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm
I'm not talking about what is legal.
I'm referring to the reality of what will happen in certain companies under a "getting walked to the door" situation.
Security certainly could be called.
An Employee could contest it later, but "in the moment", it's going to be "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)".

Yes, I've seen it happen, as seems to be the case with several others here.
Now, admittedly, I have *not* seen what would happen if an Employee stood his/her ground and said, "Nope, I'm not leaving just yet, I *am* going to go through my things and gather up what is mine", etc.

Note that in some cases, there could be a concern that the Employee might be taking materials that are confidential/protected intellectual property, etc. Whether the Employee is entitled to remove such items is unlikely to be resolved properly in the moment...

RM
Absent a physical threat against themselves or others, corporate security guards (who are not sworn officers) have very little actual authority to do anything. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "The Employee vs. The Security Officer(s)". If you mean that the officers could intimidate the employee into leaving, that is certainly possible. If you mean the officers could physically impose themselves upon a polite but uncooperative employee who refused to leave without personal items, then that is possible but would open the officers up to charges of assault (unlikely) and the employer up to huge civil liability, especially if any injuries resulted (likely).

An appropriate response in California would be for the employee to politely refuse to leave without their personal items, and to suggest that actual police officers be called in to mediate if necessary. An officer will respond and if well-trained, that officer will likely mediate between the parties, and generally resolve the situation. I've seen this happen before. I've even seen one case where both the employee and the employer called the police department, which dispatched two officers (one for each caller). The officers worked together to resolve the dispute to everyone's satisfaction. I was very impressed by their professionalism in that instance.
That's exactly what I mean.

When someone is surprised with a "It's over; we'll walk you to the door NOW"... they are unlikely to know what their full rights are, when Security (one or more persons, and it would likely be more than one at the first sign of "resistance") are looming... No threats are needed.
(But unfortunately, that doesn't mean that no threats would be made...)
It's a very stressful situation without worrying about what is/is not actually allowed.
And I'm sure that it's possible for verbal intimidation such as "Do you want us to call the Police?"

The Employee is not necessarily going to know that "The Police" would be on their side and not on the Employer's side, etc.

I'm sure the Police are usually very professional indeed.
But the problem is... what is the state of Employee's mind, and how is Security handled, etc.

Yes, I've seen "Security LOOMING" over a shaking Employee who was startled and distraught, simply trying to put a coat on...

No way does someone like that know their rights, and to be clear, I don't fully know what the terms of my employment actually were when I worked at MegaCorp.
Actually, for all I know, maybe there really *was* a clause stating that I needed to leave immediately, and they'd mail "my stuff" to me.
Point is, I just don't know if there ever was such a clause, and I suspect I'm not alone...
And IF "Security" was indeed looming, claiming that's "how it is going to be"...?
Or worse, if they DID make threats about "trespassing" or even "arrest"... what is a typical Employee going to do?

What is legal or right is not always known to all parties, and when it is very stressful, people don't always carefully think through "gee, what is going on, is this *right*, or should I insist otherwise..."

Otherwise, it would probably never be the case that any Employee allowed themselves to be walked out the door without first calmly and carefully going through all office stuff, selecting what was "theirs".
And... who would, at that moment, determine if "that notebook", or computer disk, really belongs to the Employee, or contains proprietary info that the Employee has no right to remove?

RM
First, I'm not sure why you would have personal computer disks and personal notebooks at work (In my case - My PIIA agreement says any notes I take at work belong to the company so even if I was taking personal notes at work - they wouldn't belong to me). Your work-place is your work-place - you should keep your personal items limited (Maybe a picture or two and a coffee mug). Perhaps some technical/industry reference books (although with the internet I see very few folks with these anymore as well) that are personal that might be in question at a megacorp. 9 companies out of 10 would allow you to go collect your things when this happens anyway (yes - I know there are personal stories of the 1 out of 10 - realize you are on someone else's property). And if you are giving notice and some of these items are so critical to you then you should quietly remove them over the days leading up to you giving your notice.

In any case I think some folks are making a mountain out of a mole-hill on this issue. If I gave two week's notice and was walked out I would be thankful (Two paid weeks off before my next job! - Yeah!).

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by MJW » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:11 am

After trudging through the requisite "Companies are evil/stupid; HR is bad" responses that one expects from this sort of topic, I missed whether the OP has provided an update. Has anything actually happened yet?

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Looking4Answers » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:44 am

MJW wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:11 am
After trudging through the requisite "Companies are evil/stupid; HR is bad" responses that one expects from this sort of topic, I missed whether the OP has provided an update. Has anything actually happened yet?
Not yet, still awaiting on the official letter containing offer of employment.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by limeyx » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:40 pm

soccerrules wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:17 am
Looking4Answers wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:45 am
DH has had a job offer and plans to give two weeks notice (probably today once he gets formal offer letter). However, he is going to work for a direct competitor to his present employer. He was advised by the person conducting his job interview that under these circumstances there is a strong likelihood that he will immediately be asked to turn in any company property and be walked to the door. We have questions about health insurance, etc., which we will be checking into directly with the insurance company. However, since this is all happening so quickly I would welcome any suggestions as to what he might should do immediately (contacting HR regarding anything pertinent in this situation, etc.) I feel there is a strong likelihood that there may be a scenario that is a cross between leaving today and staying the two full weeks. His immediately supervisor would probably want him to stay the full two weeks, but as news of his leaving moves up the chain of command the "escort to the door" could happen at any time between now and the full two weeks. Any advice is welcome.

A quick search on the Internet give conflicting information as to short term coverage between jobs. Will be researching that more and may post more questions later. Will need to see exactly when his coverage starts with new employer.
I am assuming because the current company has an HR department it is not a mom/pop shop.

I would go in with the expectation that you provide 2 weeks as a courtesy, but not surprised if they decide today is the last day.
The HR department may/may not meet with DH if today is the last day. If not, more than likely DH will be contacted within 24 hours about appropriate "ending employment" things. I would get a list of questions ready to cover with this person. In my experience this is routine and you probably will not have any issue (pushback) from HR person.
Things that would be on my mind although your employee manual may address these (look there)
1) When does current paid for health coverage end ?
2) Cobra information ? (i believe standard gov't required paperwork given)
3) Payment for unused PTO?
4) Final check date ?
5) Commissions paid ? (cutoff date?)
6) 401K / 457 plan options/ contact info
Again most of this is fairly standard for HR departments and your DH isn't the first employee to leave.

Since your DH is going to a competitor I would look at the non-compete/non-solicitation portion of the employment agreement, etc. You do not have to tell them where you are going, but most of the time it becomes public knowledge within a few weeks/months. It would be wise for your DH to stay away from anything that would violate the Non-compete/non solicitation.Not sure if previous employees have made similar moves, and/or what the leaderships' views on "going to the competitor" are like. Be careful here.
Best of luck on the job change.
Also, download any paystubs or W2s etc that may be stored in sites with company login. I had an employee who was layed off and they cut this immediately and he had no access

Also go into any FSA or HSA or 401K accounts etc and make sure he has his personal email address set, not the work one

Personally I delete all of my email even though I know its probably archived somewhere else

Make sure he has any details about RSUs/ISO shares downloaded / printed etc. and check into how long after leaving he has to exercise them (should be provided by HR but ... sometimes they "forget" in situations like this)

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Clever_Username » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:34 pm

I didn't see this said, but if you have a company account on a personal phone, get any things you want saved from your phone backed up (such as to Google Photos or the Apple version of the same). Some of the accounts you set up, even on a personal phone, allow the employer to remotely wipe your phone to get their stuff removed.
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by lazydavid » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:14 am

njdealguy wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 am
If this chance of being immediately walked out of the door is due to the person's joining a direct competitor, just wondering why its necessary to even disclose the next place of employment to current employer, something which I've never ever done myself. Unless there is some legal requirement not sure.
Our policy is to walk employees out if they're going to a competitor OR if they refuse to disclose where they're going.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by lazydavid » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:41 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.
This is illegal in many states. For example, my company policy specifies that unused vacation will be paid out (as required in almost every state), but unused floating holiday time will not. However, departing employees in Illinois also get their float paid out, because state law requires it.

Now I have seen cases where the company has refused to pay out obligations when employees were terminated for criminal acts, where the financial harm to the company exceeds the obligations.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Looking4Answers » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:26 am

lazydavid wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:41 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.
This is illegal in many states. For example, my company policy specifies that unused vacation will be paid out (as required in almost every state), but unused floating holiday time will not. However, departing employees in Illinois also get their float paid out, because state law requires it.

Now I have seen cases where the company has refused to pay out obligations when employees were terminated for criminal acts, where the financial harm to the company exceeds the obligations.
This is what I found on the Internet:

Federal law is silent on the issue of unused vacation pay at termination, and state law is all over the map. There are four possibilities and every state falls more or less into one of the four:

1.) All earned but unused vacation pay must be paid out at termination, regardless (examples of states which have this requirement; CA, MA)
2.) All earned but unused vacation pay must be paid out at termination unless company policy says it won't (examples of states which have this requirement; NC, NY)
3.) No earned but unused vacation pay need be paid out at termination unless company policy says it will (examples of states which have this requirement; PA, TX)
4.) No earned but unused vacation pay need be paid out at termination (examples of states which have this requirement, FL, GA)

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by wrongfunds » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:15 am

Our policy is to walk employees out if they're going to a competitor OR if they refuse to disclose where they're going.
Company policy can be anything. But if the departing employee tells you she is taking a break from the employment, what do you do to find out what exactly is she really going to do after quitting?

I know nothing about labor law but if push comes to shove, I am guessing the above stated policy would have some trouble withstanding court review. Finally it will come down to the legal budget of respective sides, so I do understand why your company thinks it can prevail.

Bottom line :- Employee has to tell you NOTHING about what she plans to do after leaving the current job. The correct answer would be "I am taking a break and considering early retirement". Do you make her take a oath and sign a statement stating that she has NOT accepted any other assignment starting 2-weeks from today?

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by mak1277 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:51 am

Several people talked about forwarding emails and sending personal stuff from your work computer to a personal email. Just be aware that this alone may trigger someone's attention. My company often identifies people who are leaving from email activity before they even give notice. If you send a huge number of emails to your personal account, be prepared for someone to come asking about it in short order.

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by dziuniek » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 am

Please, by all means, escort me and pay me for 2 weeks to sit on my bum.

I think you need to look at the Brightside here :)

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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:18 am

A few more things I remember from having left jobs....

Spend all the FSA money you possibly can. If you put in for $2500 for the year, for example, and have $2500 in expenses, submit them. They will pay the full amount you signed up for, even though you have not contributed the full amount yet.

WRT notice: Megacorp will only provide 2 pieces of information to anyone who has a signed authorization: 1: Yes, you worked there. 2: Start and end date. Nobody is going to give a review. HR won't allow managers to give reviews. Too much risk to Megacorp to open them up to law suits. So if you burned down your branch office......or found $100 Million in sales in your final week......the info they provide will be the same.
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:58 am

lazydavid wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:41 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm
My former employer, Megacorp,did not pay out unused PTO. They said PTO was granted and not earned. Yet the grant appeared on paychecks in the same amounts as if you had earned them. Go figure.
This is illegal in many states. For example, my company policy specifies that unused vacation will be paid out (as required in almost every state), but unused floating holiday time will not. However, departing employees in Illinois also get their float paid out, because state law requires it.

Now I have seen cases where the company has refused to pay out obligations when employees were terminated for criminal acts, where the financial harm to the company exceeds the obligations.
When I retired, I made sure to use my PTO . But about 15 years ago, when switch from separate vacation and sick time was moved into PTO , I lost the use of the sick time I had accrued. The time was put into a special disability fund which needed approval to use. It should have been moved into PTO. Since PTO was use it or lose it ,in one year all of accrued time would have been used.

I did get a great severance package for early retirement. No problems with that.

Looking4Answers
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Re: Quitting job - what to do if getting walked to the door

Post by Looking4Answers » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:39 pm

For those wondering what happened - Husband turned in two-week notice. As of now, he expects to work the two weeks, according to his supervisor's wishes (not necessarily my husband's). We're prepared for another decision higher up management chain, so we've used up flexible spending account, squeezed in one more dental visit, and cleaned out all personal possessions from office.

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