Am I being unreasonable? [Send daughter to private kindergarten]

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Vulpinus
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Am I being unreasonable? [Send daughter to private kindergarten]

Post by Vulpinus » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:24 pm

Hey guys,

Would like some advice and possibly a sanity check.

Me and my wife are on opposite sides of a debate and I am trying to see if I am being unreasonable.

We save aggressively and try to limit our expenses as best as possible. We max out our 401k's and do backdoor Roths so that's not a problem either.

Our debate stems from whether sending our 5 year old to a private kindergarten makes sense when we could put that money towards a down-payment on the house that we plan on buying in a year or two.

We live in a reasonable school district with a decent elementary school which in my opinion would serve our daughter well.

My wife wants to send our daughter to a private school till we can move to a "better" school district. However in order to save enough for the 20% down-payment we will need to make, we will have to curtail our savings into our 529 plans (we have 2 plans for both our kids). I am not entirely enthused with that prospect since I look at the private kindergarten tuition of close to $20,000 as a luxury with unproven benefits.

I want to keep the peace and find middle ground on this but other than us agreeing to disagree, I don't seem to have a solution.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

JoeRetire
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:27 pm

Vulpinus wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:24 pm
I look at the private kindergarten tuition of close to $20,000 as a luxury with unproven benefits.
Paying $20,000 for private kindergarten when public is available seems rather foolish to me.
I agree with you.

Maybe you can convince your wife to try the public option first, then switch to private if you both find it unsatisfactory for some reason.

oldfatguy
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by oldfatguy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:29 pm

I agree with you, too, but I'm not sure that helps you reach an agreement with your spouse.

bloom2708
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:32 pm

I'm not a fan of private school in Kindergarten, Elementary or High School when you have reasonable good schools.

Is it a faith based school? Montessori type?

Add up how much your current kid and future kids will spend before you get to college. My friend with 2 boys in private elementary pays $32k/year. They are in a great neighborhood with good public schools. It will add up to ~$750k or more (Opportunity cost of not investing/saving that amount) for Elementary and High School. Then comes college. That is a pretty nice house. That is a number of retirement years income.

If you have to back off on retirement savings or college savings to do it, I would not. If your wife wants to delay purchasing a house because of it, that would be a trade-off you would have to tackle. What will you give up to do it? Will your 55 year old self think it was worth it?

Private Kindergarten for $20k blows my mind. $770 for each letter of the alphabet. :shock:

Just one opinion. We have great schools and many still choose the faith based private schools. The prices are nowhere close to $20k/year though here.

Good kids, smart kids with parents that are involved do well at poor, average and great schools.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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MnyGrl
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by MnyGrl » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:34 pm

As long as the five-year-olds aren't packing heat, I think I would go with the public school. Kindergarten is likely to be mostly play and socialization anyway, even if it isn't a great program. Does she have specific concerns? Sometimes you can find an online forum for your community or area where people discuss these things.

Since you are trying to save for a down payment, do you think you could agree to try the public school for a few months and if it looks like it's not a fit, transfer to the private? I think it really does hurt your saving goals.
Last edited by MnyGrl on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mrc
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by mrc » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:35 pm

Elementary-age private school never made any sense to us, unless your public school options are unacceptable. Even for middle and high school age, it makes sense only if the public option is intolerable (and there are other reasons for remaining in that district).
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getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:36 pm

FWIW, our attitude has always been to not assume that there will be a problem with the public system; one can always move into the private system if necessary, but no need to pre-emptively do so. If the public option is safe and nurturing that's about 99% of kindergarten, with the other 1% split between learning the alphabet and not eating paste.

totallystudly
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by totallystudly » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:40 pm

That is a crazy high amount of money for a no boarding type school, and I don't see the benefits for kindergarten. If you do simple stuff like read to your kids at this level, they will be fine.

BackOfTheNet
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by BackOfTheNet » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

What about at least trying the public school first? Obviously all schools are different, but we have a kindergartner in a middle-of-the-road public school and have been thrilled with it. In fact, my wife and I often remark that if we had the exact same experience but were paying private school prices we would probably think it was worth the cost.

We also have friends that were considering private school but really liked the public school after giving it a shot.

If you hate the public school you can always change to private. Harder to go the other way I think.

clutchied
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by clutchied » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:45 pm

It's unreasonable...

The good news is that you can get the same(or better) results with just a little effort on your part! Talk to you wife and see how she feels about doing some of those things in house.

I've sent my kids to private school AND i live in a great district... the cost to educate in the Midwest is staggeringly low.

Shallowpockets
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Shallowpockets » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:49 pm

TWENT THOUSAND DOLLARS, for kindergarten
Is this a serious post?
I cannot even imagine it. What is your child going to do, stack gold bricks? Draw with a platinum crayon?
Is this just a status symbol for your wife?
Remember, it is kindergarten. Which is essentially day care and learning how to get along with others.
You are not being unreasonable, your wife is.

Hard to believe the problems of BHs. And this is not a BH thing at all.

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Pajamas
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:50 pm

If the public kindergarten is truly substandard then you should consider private kindergarten, but $20k is a lot of money. I don't want to say that amount is absurd, but if you cannot clearly afford it without discussion, which does not seem to be the case, then look at other options.

For perspective, many of the best public universities charge less than that but many private schools that I am familiar with charge a lot more for kindergarten and twice that or more for elementary school.

Private schools sometimes offer scholarships to people who are middle- or low-income, so find out about that.

It might help you to figure out exactly what your wife's real, specific concerns are. Maybe she would have a different perspective if she visited the public school and talked to the kindergarten teachers.

Another option would be to send your child to the public kindergarten and spend some money for extra-curricular enrichment such as private language classes, swimming lessons, or similar. For $10k you could probably have a local college student majoring in education provide some tutoring a couple of days a week.

Something else to consider is that kindergarten tuition is usually less than the primary and secondary school tuition and sending your child to the private kindergarten creates a precedent.

daveydoo
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by daveydoo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:51 pm

I have a slightly different impression of the value of kindergarten -- both my kids learned to read in their public half-day kindergarten and it was the best educational experience of their first decade -- but I also would not do the private route, even with lots of discretionary income. For perspective, we did public all the way, apart from middle school. I think it's easier to make the case for private as kids get older and schools get worse and rougher. But from what you're describing, I see no role for private elementary school.

Without knowing all the facts and circumstances, I hesitate to say either one of you is being unreasonable. :D
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dirtytough
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by dirtytough » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:54 pm

$20k seems crazy for kindergarten. Our boy is at a private elementary school and its about $4700 a year. The public school had one problem kid that was acting like a molester so that's why we moved him to a private school. I think the posters that suggest trying the public school first have the right idea.

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dm200
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by dm200 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:54 pm

Oh yes - pay whatever you need to keep away from the public school "riff raff" - like most of us here.

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bottlecap
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by bottlecap » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:57 pm

Well, $20,000 is not crazy in the sense that it is what may private schools charge, even in "middle" cost of living areas. You are talking about 10 kid class sizes with a teacher and a teacher's aid, STEM lab, music, etc... The private schools are often a good value, given what public schools spend per student.

It is crazy when you think about that amount of money leaving your wallet every year and a government-subsidized option exists across the street.

The full answer depends on the kid and the school. I would probably pay to get my kid out of a bad school, but not to get my kid into a better school.

Also - some private schools in our area offer breaks on tuition based on income, debts, number of people in the family. You may not qualify if you earn a lot, but check it out.

We were in a similar situation and decided on the public school, even with some aid offered by the private school.

Good luck,

JT

bob60014
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by bob60014 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:59 pm

$20k for KG? That's more than what I paid for 4 years of college, back in the day of course!
I'm waiting to hear that's it's for half day KG too. ;)

Sorry, just jesting about the half day part, but in reality KG unless it's a very specialized program won't pass the ROI test.

BuckyBadger
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by BuckyBadger » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:01 pm

FWIW, this isn't a financial discussion that this board can help with. This is a decision between you and your wife. It doesn't matter if it's the "right" thing to do. There is no right thing in this case. I don't think you're going to get very far by showing your wife this thread and saying, "hey, these strangers on the internet say it's a waste of money."

As a pregnant woman, I'm just warning you to tread carefully with this.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Wow - $20K for Kindergarten? Do they have some secret success package where they will be taking advanced Calculus the first year (versus learning how to count to 100 and putting colors in order)?

I'm certainly with you. I always feel if you pay for Private school in a good school district that you are essentially Double-Paying - you are paying higher property taxes (or a higher rent) to live in the district which is funding the Public School - and then you go and pay a second time for the same service.

soccerrules
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by soccerrules » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:06 pm

No to $20K private kindergarten.

It appears you guys are involved parents and will be active in your kids learning at home. I see no real benefit to sending your child to a private school at that cost at that age.

full disclosure. We sent one of our 3 kids to private school starting in middle school ($12K all in) -- it was a NEED based learning scenario where we felt private would be better than the top level public option we have.

I would sit down and lay out the pro's and cons of the decision. I am a little surprised this is just now coming up ?? Or have you known about this for a few years and hoped you could sway her away from the sending the kids to "private" ?

Best of luck
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livesoft
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by livesoft » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:08 pm

My oldest went to private kindergarten, but that was back when public school was a half-day and private was full-day. So it was pay for half-day of daycare or pay for kindergarten. And it wasn't $20K a year either, despite being the most academically rigorous private school in the county. Then grades 1-12 were public school.

Is your spouse working? Does she have friends with kids in the private school? In the public school?
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TheDDC
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by TheDDC » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:16 pm

20k per year is an unreasonable expense for just about anything unless it has a deed attached to it.

It's a waste. If you don't like your public school see if you can transfer to a different elementary school in your district. It's an option available to you if you live in a district on "school improvement" status.

-TheDDC
Last edited by TheDDC on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

02nz
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:18 pm

That 20K, properly invested, will pay for a significant portion of college expenses (maybe a whole year). At the kindergarten level, the parents' involvement in the child's education has a far larger impact than the kind of school attended.

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JamesSFO
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by JamesSFO » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 pm

I do not think you are being unreasonable, but I also do not think that makes you right either.

It sounds like this is the first significant monetary/value disagreement between you and your wife. No set of (internet) strangers is going to shift her viewpoint (or yours) very much.

What are some of her reasons/positives for sending your daughter to private school? What about it is important to your wife? What is the long term gain your wife sees from it? Etc. Is your wife willing to cut back 529 savings to do it? If so, why?

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Meg77
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Meg77 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:22 pm

Setting aside whether private school Kindergarten is worth it, it sounds like you can afford it. If you can finance $20k a year for tuition by "curtailing" (not even stopping) 529 contributions, then you may not even need to be making 529 contributions. You can cash flow private education up to and including college tuition. For the record, I believe under the new tax law you can actually use 529 plan funds for private secondary school.

But here's some more ammo for you. Private Kindergarten doesn't make sense as long as the public option is decent. The only reason many ppl start private school that young is so they can GET IN. Getting into a private school in middle school or later years can be all but impossible due to long wait lists and the fact that kids who are already enrolled the year before have priority. But you're talking about moving to a new school district anyway - so that's not even a factor here.

It's kindergarten. I went to private school, even a fancy boarding school in high school. I get the appeal. But at that age you're literally learning colors and taking naps and running around. Unless safety is a factor it really does not matter where your child goes to kindergarten. And FYI the cost will be larger than $20k. The birthday parties will be more elaborate, the outfits the other kids wear will be more expensive, and so on and so forth.
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Isabelle77
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 pm

If it's just for one year I wouldn't do it. If you're planning on sending your child to the private school all the way through, then it is best to start in kindergarten. It sounds like you're moving to a new district in the next year or so anyway so go with public.

Also, to the poster who felt it necessary to make a comment about parents sending their children to private schools to be with only white people. Every private school I have ever been involved in, which is near a dozen, has been more diverse than the local public schools. It is absolutely a fallacy that private schools are bastions of "whiteness." Visit a competitive private school and then the upper middle class elementary down the street and see which has the more diverse classroom.

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Pajamas
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Also, to the poster who felt it necessary to make a comment about parents sending their children to private schools to be with only white people. Every private school I have ever been involved in, which is near a dozen, has been more diverse than the local public schools. It is absolutely a fallacy that private schools are bastions of "whiteness." Visit a competitive private school and then the upper middle class elementary down the street and see which has the more diverse classroom.
That may be true in your specific experience but it is not true for the U.S. as a whole and especially in certain parts of the country. Private schools in the South were often started in response to desegregation. The private schools are not strictly segregated for the most part these days, but frequently the private schools have a significantly higher percentage of white students compared to the public schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/edu ... and-charts

Definitely not a fallacy but a reality.

Tal-
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Tal- » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:58 pm

The only reason to do a private KG is if you try the public option and it doesn't work. I feel strongly that you need to start in a public school and go from there.

With that said, the kids come first. If, a few months in, the public option isn't working and can't be fixed, and you have reason to believe that private will work, then making the change seems far more viable.

I think the value of private school increases with age. Spending a small fortune for a private high school is understandable. Spending a small fortune on a middle schooler is defensable. Spending a small fortune on a gradeschooler (without a defined need), is kinda wacky.
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ElwoodBlues
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by ElwoodBlues » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:16 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:32 pm

Good kids, smart kids with parents that are involved do well at poor, average and great schools.
+1 ... Strong believer in this. Also, like others have said, I would find that price too steep, assuming I was comfortable with the quality of the public option.

But with that said, there is also some value in avoiding the daily drag of the disruptive/disinterested students. Not sure how big a deal this is in kindergarten. At that age, almost every student can be disruptive.

There's also the argument for having at least a little exposure to the wide range of types of people that exist in the world, and letting your child learn how to deal with all of them. And from the other angle, in the private kindergarten, is there any risk of your child learning bad behaviors from being around too many entitled silver spoon brats? What if they are always trying to keep up with the little Joneses, constantly coming home and begging you for the latest touchscreen wi-fi lunchbox that EVERYONE has.

What have you been doing to this point? Has your child been attending a full-time preschool for the past year or so? If so, they may already be well-adjusted socially, perhaps lessening the relevance of having a premium kindergarten experience.

Not sure any of this really helps you and your wife reach an agreement though. Perhaps you could arrange for you and your wife to visit the public school kindergarten classroom to experience it first hand?

Try to get to the bottom of her concerns and understand her point of view. This is as much about the two of you communicating and being on the same page about parenting and schooling as it is about a money discussion. Perhaps she sees something about your child that she thinks will be better served by a smaller class size, or exposure to certain experiences. Maybe she understands or connects with your child in a way that you do not.

But then again, at what cost? ($20K apparently, which seems pretty ridiculous for crayons, socialization, milk and cookies, and nap time.) Maybe once you understand her specific concerns you can attempt to put a price tag on it. For example, if she really wants your child to have daily exposure to computer skills and a fancy puppet theater, and those are only available at the private school, is that really worth X number of years until you can buy a house, and all the benefits of that to raising your kids?

Or another way, can you both give up latte's, Netflix, new clothes, a car payment, and.....dang, how many more budget categories would it take to cover $20K without reducing retirement and 529 savings?

Sorry for the long rambling post. Maybe some of this will help spur further conversation with your wife. Good luck. It's all about communication.

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MikeWillRetire
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by MikeWillRetire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:17 pm

If you and your wife really want to live in a better school district, I think you should move into that district now, before she starts school. Your wife would give up the idea of private school, and your child wouldn't have the disruption of changing schools. Can you make that work somehow?

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roymeo
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by roymeo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:20 pm

FYI, those discombobulated by the numers: one of my coworkers here in the bay area mentioned something more like $35,000 for a private school for his elementary son (K or first)....and this is in the mean streets of Oakland, not San Francisco.
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denovo
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by denovo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:23 pm

oldfatguy wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:29 pm
I agree with you, too, but I'm not sure that helps you reach an agreement with your spouse.
Lol, exactly my thoughts.

Strangers on the internet agree with me won't help in an argument.
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Isabelle77
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:45 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 pm

Also, to the poster who felt it necessary to make a comment about parents sending their children to private schools to be with only white people. Every private school I have ever been involved in, which is near a dozen, has been more diverse than the local public schools. It is absolutely a fallacy that private schools are bastions of "whiteness." Visit a competitive private school and then the upper middle class elementary down the street and see which has the more diverse classroom.
That may be true in your specific experience but it is not true for the U.S. as a whole and especially in certain parts of the country. Private schools in the South were often started in response to desegregation. The private schools are not strictly segregated for the most part these days, but frequently the private schools have a significantly higher percentage of white students compared to the public schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/edu ... and-charts

Definitely not a fallacy but a reality.
You are absolutely right that my experience is not in the south and certainly not any "segregation academies." But my observation may still stand. Private schools nationwide overall are definitely whiter. However, these links just compare all private schools with all public schools, they don't compare the public schools that private school students would attend if they went to their local public school. Certainly, where I live now in the PNW the public elementary schools in desirable districts are less diverse than the private schools in those same areas. Obviously, I don't have the data to support my hypothesis, but it would be an interesting thing to find out. I'll stand by my assertion that assuming that the OP's wife wants to send her child to private school to avoid people of different races, is offensive and unlikely at best.

All of that said, I agree with the OP that public kindergarten, in this case, seems to make more sense than 20K a year for a private school they don't plan to attend for the long term.

JoeRetire
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 pm
Also, to the poster who felt it necessary to make a comment about parents sending their children to private schools to be with only white people. Every private school I have ever been involved in, which is near a dozen, has been more diverse than the local public schools. It is absolutely a fallacy that private schools are bastions of "whiteness." Visit a competitive private school and then the upper middle class elementary down the street and see which has the more diverse classroom.
Clearly it depends on the private schools, and the local public schools.

In my part of the country, it's not hard to find a private school that excludes any sort of group you desire. And while they might not admit it, lots of parents desire just that. Those schools certainly are far less diverse than the local public schools here.

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Pajamas
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:30 pm

roymeo wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:20 pm
FYI, those discombobulated by the numers: one of my coworkers here in the bay area mentioned something more like $35,000 for a private school for his elementary son (K or first)....and this is in the mean streets of Oakland, not San Francisco.
$48k at Horace Mann
https://www.horacemann.org/page.cfm?p=261

$40k Friends Seminary
https://www.friendsseminary.org/page/ad ... ancial-aid

$40k at Sidwell Friends
https://www.sidwell.edu/admissions/affording-sfs

$29k at Princeton Day
https://www.pds.org/admission/tuition-and-fees

Isabelle77
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:32 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 pm
Also, to the poster who felt it necessary to make a comment about parents sending their children to private schools to be with only white people. Every private school I have ever been involved in, which is near a dozen, has been more diverse than the local public schools. It is absolutely a fallacy that private schools are bastions of "whiteness." Visit a competitive private school and then the upper middle class elementary down the street and see which has the more diverse classroom.
Clearly it depends on the private schools, and the local public schools.

In my part of the country, it's not hard to find a private school that excludes any sort of group you desire. And while they might not admit it, lots of parents desire just that. Those schools certainly are far less diverse than the local public schools here.
I'm sorry to hear that there are still places like that Joe.

Retireby40
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Retireby40 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:33 pm

My wife is a tiger mom and we tried just about every type of option for our kids. There is little evidence that supports the premise that private schools lead to better academic outcomes. If you don't have time to manage your kids, live in an area with bad public schools or that don't have advanced sports/STEM/arts programs then private schools might make sense.

Otherwise, your kids will be better off if you invest the money in supplemental middle/high school tutoring, a family business or even a trust fund. With a little luck and multi-decade compounding, they will be financially independent by the time they reach middle age regardless of which college they attended.

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by veindoc » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:42 pm

I don’t think sending a kindergartener to private school is such a bad idea. That’s where the foundation is set. My kids learned to read in kindergarten and do simple math and subtraction. If your child is bright and interested, she will do well anywhere. But if she doesn’t have the basic preacademic skills now, she may need to be in the most optimal school environment you can find.
But not all private schools are equal just like not all public schools are equal.

If this were my kid. I would just swing for the fences and get into the neighborhood I want now. I would put what I could down now even if it was not quite 20 percent and then refinance when able. If that was not possible I would just stay put for the elementary school years- do the private thing and move when my kid is about to hit middle school.

Also how much down payment do you need? Is the 20k going to make or break you? If you need to save 100k, then you are looking at keeping your child in a mediocre or poor school system for a number of years- I would find this unacceptable. I would just do private school and get into the neighborhood I want when I could. If you only need to save an additional 15 or 20k to get your desired down payment then I would proceed with the plan I outlined in the above paragraph.

JoeRetire
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:45 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:32 pm
I'm sorry to hear that there are still places like that Joe.
I am sorry too. (If I were king of the world, it wouldn't be that way)

But that's the real world. And in my experience, it's not unique.

quantAndHold
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:51 pm

We put our kids in public school because we didn’t want them to only meet kids whose parents could afford $17,000 tuition. One kid had a learning disability that became a problem about the time she hit middle school, so she spent middle school in a private school where she could get individual attention, then went back to public school for high school. The others were happy in public school, so we didn’t feel a need to fix something that wasn’t broken.

They all went to good colleges and have successful careers now. So I guess it worked.

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Pajamas
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm
However, these links just compare all private schools with all public schools, they don't compare the public schools that private school students would attend if they went to their local public school. Certainly, where I live now in the PNW the public elementary schools in desirable districts are less diverse than the private schools in those same areas. Obviously, I don't have the data to support my hypothesis, but it would be an interesting thing to find out.
If you're interested in it, the data is readily available. It's not a surprise to me that the schools in "desirable districts" in the PNW are not very diverse because in many places they are segregated in practice. For instance, Seattle, which admittedly has a long history of segregation and racial prejudice but which did desegregate the public schools, to a great degree has undone that and resegregated.

https://medium.com/@katyjonesstrange/th ... 00df51393d

Often private schools in the U.S. that are desegregated by race are still segregated by income unless there is a deliberate effort made to offer scholarships. Their minority enrollees come from well-off families to a great extent. On the other hand, the top private universities are actually some of the most diverse in the U.S. by race and in some cases much more so by income than the top public universities, pretty much the opposite of what you might expect.

Isabelle77
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:09 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:55 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm
However, these links just compare all private schools with all public schools, they don't compare the public schools that private school students would attend if they went to their local public school. Certainly, where I live now in the PNW the public elementary schools in desirable districts are less diverse than the private schools in those same areas. Obviously, I don't have the data to support my hypothesis, but it would be an interesting thing to find out.
If you're interested in it, the data is readily available. It's not a surprise to me that the schools in "desirable districts" in the PNW are not very diverse because in many places they are segregated in practice. For instance, Seattle, which admittedly has a long history of segregation and racial prejudice but which did desegregate the public schools, to a great degree has undone that and resegregated.

https://medium.com/@katyjonesstrange/th ... 00df51393d

Often private schools in the U.S. that are desegregated by race are still segregated by income unless there is a deliberate effort made to offer scholarships. Their minority enrollees come from well-off families to a great extent. On the other hand, the top private universities are actually some of the most diverse in the U.S. by race and in some cases much more so by income than the top public universities, pretty much the opposite of what you might expect.
Interesting Pajamas. I don't live near Seattle but it is definitely the story in my area for the public schools as well.

golfCaddy
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by golfCaddy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Fast forward a few years. Your wife ends up loving the private school and your daughter doesn't want to leave all her friends. Your wife decides it would be a bad idea to switch schools, at least until your daughter is out of elementary school. Private tuition for a couple of years turns into private tuition for k-12 at a total cost of $260k+.

dbr
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by dbr » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:15 pm

What might be unreasonable is thinking you can move to a location with "better" schools if the wherewithal to make the move is consumed paying for school. It is rather an irony. What is the plan for continuing to pay for private school until an acceptable public school can be acquired? If kindergarten is not good enough the next grades are even worse?

What is the basis for your wife thinking the currently available public kindergarten is inadequate? Maybe an option is home schooling if the situation is really that desperate.

Also, this is one of those questions where absence of the wife also posting limits the perception.

focusedonwhatmatters
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by focusedonwhatmatters » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:48 pm

We live in an area with excellent schools, but they could not meet the needs of my kids. Thus my kids went to private school preschool-8th and preschool-10th grade. IMO, education is the best investment ever (I'm not just talking financially.)

warner25
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by warner25 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:53 pm

Sorry to hear about your disagreement. From your earlier posts in other threads, it sounds like you earn about $300k. So in your circle of friends, neighbors, and co-workers, private kindergarten for $20k might be considered totally reasonable. Of course, when measured against "free" public kindergarten it seems totally unreasonable. The question is: how much of a difference does $20k really make to you? My income is a lot less than yours, and we're probably giving up more than $20k per year for my wife to be a SAHM, maybe homeschooling eventually, and we're still on track for early financial independence. But marital harmony trumps almost everything for me at this point, and private school tuition is certainly cheaper than a divorce with alimony and child support.

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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:56 pm

If your daughter has a learning disability and the private school specializes in her disability, then absolutely.

If the kindergarten is in a school building where they keep tabs on the number of shootings and stabbings weekly, then sure.

Just because? Nope.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

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unclescrooge
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:09 pm
Kindergartners need to learn how to properly socialize with others, learn the sounds of the alphabet, learn how to rhyme words, learn to tie their shoes, learn about weather, learn about colors, learn how to write their letters, learn how to listen and ask questions, learn how to use a scissors, learn how to write their name, etc.
This is what my 3 year old does at full-day day care, for which we spend about $14000/year. She can already count to 30 and has already memorized half of her favorite books.

I have a feeling she's going to be seriously bored in kindergarten.
If my wife brings up this private KG nonsense I'm going to be seriously depressed.

DesertDiva
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by DesertDiva » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 pm

No you are not. If this a matter of bragging rights, then convince her that she will ultimately be better off when you buy a house with a 20%+ down payment, and have your mortgage paid off in 15 years. That will be the better brag. And kiddo will be just fine.

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ram
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Re: Am I being unreasonable?

Post by ram » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:18 pm

I know that one data point does not mean anything. But this is our story. Daughter went to public school. She was the top student in the state (State AP scholar). This includes all private schools in the state. She got a scholarship to attend Medical school.
However at the present time I am paying >80,000/year for "private" school. (Harvard). I doubt if even at this stage the private tuition is justifiable. But I think it is more justifiable for a graduate degree than for KG. Also my mortgage is all paid up and I would not have spent on private tuition if I still had an outstanding mortgage.
Ram

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