Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

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Lynx310650
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Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Lynx310650 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:43 pm

Married, approaching 40, will not have children. Was wondering if there were other BHs in the same situation and what (if anything) you may be doing that might be slightly (or very) different to general financial advice? A couple of things off the top of my head:

Emergency fund: With each person making enough income to support the other if need be, and no other mouths to feed, we deliberately keep a small e-fund, just 1-2 months of expenses.

Buy vs rent: This is definitely subjective as I know plenty of singles and DINKs who own, but we've always been renters and considering renting until retirement. This has given us the flexibility to always move and rent close to work to cut down on commute times, and also keeps overall housing costs down (we've always lived in 1 bedrooms). We also like the flexibility of moving at the drop of a hat if need be to follow career opportunities.

Life insurance: Decided no need, the other half can support themselves!

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by ralph124cf » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:48 pm

The real decisions come farther down the road.

What will you do when you are no longer competent to manage your own financial affairs? If there is no competent relative around whom you trust, you may be left with a high cost bank trust department or something similar. There are many threads on here about this already. Elder abuse is a real problem, and not just financial abuse, although that is most common.

Ralph

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Atilla » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:54 pm

With no kids, you can use all that extra money to invest and have the means to pay people to be nice and take care of you in your old age. An aunt and uncle did that - hired live in help - great lady who lived with them for a number of years before they passed.
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by whodidntante » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:55 pm

I agree that the small emergency fund likely make senses. But then, I don't think most people with significant liquidity "need" an emergency fund. Not that I care if someone sleeps better with so much cash around. And cash is back as a semi-valid investment choice since it pays something worth caring about now, well almost.

If you want to be really frugal, you might not need two cars. Or maybe one nice car and one beater.

Obviously max all retirement accounts and an HSA.

For now you are king of the world. You could buy a sceptre and wave it around at all your poor DIWK friends. But the stories of your vacations where you don't go to terrible "kid friendly" places are probably enough. "Oh, you went to Disney World? How cool!! We just got back from Rome, well, except for a week that we spent cruising the Mediterranean."

Save some more for hired help in your old age, since you won't have free help from guilty children.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by denovo » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:59 pm

One issue that comes up in your situation is there is no obvious heir to you or your spouse's estate, since most people will leave their assets to their children.

Are there specific relatives on your side of the family you want your estate to go, likewise for your spouse? How commingled are your assets, do you want the other spouse to receive the income from your assets for a set time first, etc ,etc? Things get trickier if you live in a community property state.
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:03 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (Financial planning).
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by MoneyMarathon » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:13 pm

This is an individual choice, but I don’t mind paying for term life, or maxing it when offered by an employer. At least until hitting financial independence. If something happens to one of us, the other could be working significantly longer, with less ability to save. (My wife is also currently a student, and our incomes are and may be different, another factor.)

The buy-up at work for the maximum life and disability insurance is less than $30 / month for me, so it won’t make any difference to me if neither insurance is used. But with a permanent disability or death, it would.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by livesoft » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:19 pm

Doesn't sound much different from us --- except we had kids.

1. Rented until late 30's.
2. No kids until late 30's.
3. Never bought life insurance.
4. Our emergency fund was invested since our taxable account grew large enough to not bother with cash anywhere.

I guess you could do what we did: Invest the income (salary) of the highest paid spouse and live the soft life off the income of the lowest paid spouse.

And now our youngest child will graduate from college, so we are back to No Kids again. :)
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by 123 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:51 pm

So much free time to be unabashedly self-indulgent. No baby supplies to buy, no crying babies in the home, no vacation plans "adjusted" to accommodate little ones in the household, no toddler/kid messes in the home, no dealing with pediatricians, no arranging play-dates, no kid soccer practices, no child care arrangements/expenses, don't have to teach kids how to walk/talk/read/write/dress themselves, no dealing with the school systems, no constantly buying new clothes as the kids grow, you can go to bed when you want and get up when you want (no kids to tuck in bed at night)...
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by livesoft » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:58 pm

^Maybe not. The OP did not tell you about the 5 cats and 3 dogs that they have.
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by happyisland » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:13 pm

DINK here. The most interesting thing we consider as we age is how to die broke (IE, how to use as much of our money as we want while we're still alive - this includes being generous with others).
The current plan is for increasing annuitization as we move through retirement, but there are a lot of details to be worked out. Luckily we've got 20 years or so until retirement!

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by MnyGrl » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:45 pm

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Lynx310650 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:47 pm

happyisland wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:13 pm
DINK here. The most interesting thing we consider as we age is how to die broke (IE, how to use as much of our money as we want while we're still alive - this includes being generous with others).
The current plan is for increasing annuitization as we move through retirement, but there are a lot of details to be worked out. Luckily we've got 20 years or so until retirement!
Interesting thought, and something I have not considered!

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by cherijoh » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Lynx310650 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:43 pm
Married, approaching 40, will not have children. Was wondering if there were other BHs in the same situation and what (if anything) you may be doing that might be slightly (or very) different to general financial advice? A couple of things off the top of my head:

Emergency fund: With each person making enough income to support the other if need be, and no other mouths to feed, we deliberately keep a small e-fund, just 1-2 months of expenses.

Buy vs rent: This is definitely subjective as I know plenty of singles and DINKs who own, but we've always been renters and considering renting until retirement. This has given us the flexibility to always move and rent close to work to cut down on commute times, and also keeps overall housing costs down (we've always lived in 1 bedrooms). We also like the flexibility of moving at the drop of a hat if need be to follow career opportunities.

Life insurance: Decided no need, the other half can support themselves!
I'm single no kids. One thing I have noticed is that friends with kids are a lot less likely to be able to retire early.

Have you done any calculations to see if you are FI (financially independent) yet? Even if you aren't interested in retiring especially early, it would be good to know how far off you are from being able to retire.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by stan1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:33 pm

We save a lot more than our friends with kids who have higher incomes. We drive nicer cars and take nicer vacations but live in a less expensive house. We live in a desirable urban neighborhood near restaurants and parks with a short 12 minute commute to work but not so great schools. Our friends have larger, more expensive houses in family neighborhoods with longer commutes and even then some send their kids to private schools despite having access to the best public schools in the city.

Another issue is end of life care. Many people do not want to be a burden to their children, but the reality is often times children do assist in tangible and intangible ways as we age. It might be delivery of food ever other week or helping to file taxes or listening and asking questions during a doctor office visit. It's a harder ask of nephews, nieces, younger siblings, or friends who might say no. We don't want to be a burden to our nieces and nephews even though they would likely receive substantial inheritances. Our hope is for long lives with a quick demise but if not we are financially prepared for expensive end of life care. The younger of us has long term care insurance. It's a gamble on whether it will pay off, but we can afford the risk of paying the premiums and getting nothing in return.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by fourwheelcycle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:44 pm

We are not DINKs, but we have really close friends who are. All four of us are now approaching or seventies, but I remember when we were in our forties we used to save $10-15K per year for our two kids' college and our friends used to spend an equal amount each year for a very nice vacation to Hawaii, Australia, Italy, or Africa (safari), etc. We used to tease them about their very tough life!

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by rgs92 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:48 pm

I think substantial long term care insurance is important since there won't be anyone around to help later on (unless you have really good friends who are a lot younger, which is probably a rare thing).

Of course, this probably is equally valid for many who have kids too.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by CULater » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 am

What's a DINK?
Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Ron » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 am
What's a DINK?
Dual Income, No Kids...

- Ron

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:14 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 am
What's a DINK?
Dual Income, No Kids

The big advantages to not having kids is more money, and not having to care about good schools when you look at housing. So there are more options.

Easier to retire early if that's a goal.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:19 am

123 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:51 pm
So much free time to be unabashedly self-indulgent. No baby supplies to buy, no crying babies in the home, no vacation plans "adjusted" to accommodate little ones in the household, no toddler/kid messes in the home, no dealing with pediatricians, no arranging play-dates, no kid soccer practices, no child care arrangements/expenses, don't have to teach kids how to walk/talk/read/write/dress themselves, no dealing with the school systems, no constantly buying new clothes as the kids grow, you can go to bed when you want and get up when you want (no kids to tuck in bed at night)...
You know there are positive aspects to having kids too... :)

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by ksualum » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:43 am

I agree Homer. Life is what you make of it. I have a feeling being a DINK for life can be great and so can having a bunch of kids. I don't think it's a zero sum game. My wife and I can do an experiment. We have been DINKS until about 3 months ago and are expecting a baby girl in September. I am 36, so I will do my best to compare my DINK lifestyle with my kid lifestyle. The experiment will end in 20 years when she is hopefully out of the house . . . . I'll keep everyone posted yearly . . . :wink: :beer

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by hitchman » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:11 am

DI3K here. The OP doesn't mention it, and it's nobody's business anyway, so I can't assume the reason for having no children. However, I find the attitude of some on this forum that children and family planning should come down to financial considerations to be shameful and ridiculous. There are a myriad of reasons why one may choose not to have any children, but if financial reasons are the top then I presume no amount of money or planning will make the person happy. Clearly there are situations where money is an issue, but those are poverty situations. DINKs are not in that boat.

I could go on an on about this topic, and on other posters on the forum that are constantly seeking affirmation of their choices or help in over-analyzing every little detail of their lives. Put down your spreadsheets and live your life.

Again, the OP makes no mention of the reason for no children, and he expresses no disdain for children. The responses are what I take issue with.

Rant over.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Ron » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:12 am

ksualum wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:43 am
<snip...> The experiment will end in 20 years when she is hopefully out of the house . . . . I'll keep everyone posted yearly . . . :wink: :beer
And then possibly there are grand-kids.

The cycle doesn't necessarily end - but you will :mrgreen: ...

- Ron

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by rgs92 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:45 pm

Well, our pets (many cats over the years) certainly didn't earn us any money, but I wouldn't want to be without them (for all sorts of personal reasons, some of which I don't even understand myself...).

So I find it's a minefield for me to even get near any kind of opinion in this area to say anything that can even tangentially be interpreted as judgmental, even if it is not meant to sound that way.

And since this is an important subject for practical planning reasons, I feel it's best to tread lightly to keep the thread open and educational.

(Of course, it's not quite as controversial as bringing up Edward Jones, Dave Ramsey, or unexplained ticker symbols.)
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by HobbesMB » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:56 pm

Being DINKs but living a modest lifestyle has allowed us to save a lot of money even without particularly high incomes, and we'll be retiring in 3 years (age 53). Then we'll spend the next 40 or so years doing whatever we want. The list of things we want to do in retirement is huge.

We didn't have kids because we didn't want them. While we considered the fact that we won't have kids to assist us as we age, that's a poor reason to have children. Plus, it's no guarantee that kids would be willing to do so anyway. Quite a few old folks are sitting around their house or assisted-living facility hoping for a rare visit from one of their children. We'll pay for good care when the time comes.

There is a niece and nephew who will benefit from any estate we leave behind, but we get to approach retirement with the intent of spending every last dime before we croak.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by bayview » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:06 pm

hitchman wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:11 am
DI3K here. The OP doesn't mention it, and it's nobody's business anyway, so I can't assume the reason for having no children. However, I find the attitude of some on this forum that children and family planning should come down to financial considerations to be shameful and ridiculous. There are a myriad of reasons why one may choose not to have any children, but if financial reasons are the top then I presume no amount of money or planning will make the person happy. Clearly there are situations where money is an issue, but those are poverty situations. DINKs are not in that boat.

I could go on an on about this topic, and on other posters on the forum that are constantly seeking affirmation of their choices or help in over-analyzing every little detail of their lives. Put down your spreadsheets and live your life.

Again, the OP makes no mention of the reason for no children, and he expresses no disdain for children. The responses are what I take issue with.

Rant over.
I took the responses as being tongue-in-cheek. This of course is a great example of one of the big pitfalls of social media - it's hard to pick up nuances, and it's easy to think that there are nuances that weren't intended. JMO

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Nestegg_User » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:01 pm

...now retired (DI)NK’s

OP
you might want to actually have life insurance until FI or retirement as one cannot live as cheaply as half of a couple... there’s still health insurance (single isn’t half of one+one coverage), property tax (if... you eventually buy) or rent ( since you are already in a one BR there’s no break there) We also, once closer to FI, put together a trust; if something happened all details were taken care of...and it puts you into a less likely position to be taken advantage of.

It’s good that you feel that you can just rent, the flexibility is good... presuming that the other half can get a job at the new location ( we were fortunate to be able to, have known others that it took a while or they had to transition to a different industry). If you do eventually buy before retirement, do as we did and only get a house presuming one income... then bank the rest. (the prior tax laws, even before this last change, encouraged moving up in housing so as to not have any capital gains... now you can sell and receive relatively large payouts w/o cap gains).

You also have the ability to examine what areas you likely want to end up in, as there won’t be the desire to stay around where the kids are. You should do this throughout your years, focusing eventually on just a couple areas; you might find that where you are meets your requirements/expectations for retirement..or not.

and “whodididntante”.... it’s almost a TWO week Med cruise that includes Rome... followed by Germany, Switzerland, .... :D

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Elsebet » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:46 pm

We are a DINK couple currently, age 41 and 42. At age 55 I hope to have enough saved that I can stop working full-time and we can move to a cheaper area. At this point I will consider adoption, I know 55 is pretty old for kids but I would target an older child. I'd like to be a stay at home mom in retirement, if it works out. I never liked the idea of working and having kids, it seems exhausting and I know personally I would do a poor job at both if I had to juggle them.

That dream of mine may not work out and that's fine, I'm happy with dogs. We have talked about starting a dog boarding business in retirement.

The age related issues are something that is on my mind often, I'm still not sure exactly what to do about that if we don't have any heirs. I have 2 nieces and 1 nephew that I barely know since they live on the other side of the country and my family isn't very close with each other. My will has most of my assets going to libraries and other charitable organizations currently.
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by texas lawdog » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:57 pm

DINK here and echo earlier posts about life insurance. Even though your spouse has the ability to take care of themselves, do you really want to burden them by having to work longer to replace your income? - I think of that situation as being sort of a dual-loss for your spouse. I bought a short term-life policy (10 yr) a few years ago that will expire about the same time we reach all of our financial goals.

I've owned a house for several years and structured our lifestyle so that we have the flexibility to easily live on a single income, even though we both choose to work. This frugal lifestyle has allowed us to live in an area where our mortgage payment is about 4.5x lower than my next door neighbor(who rents). I still consider it a wise investment years ago and it's been paying off in the form of cheaper housing while allowing us the flexibility in not having to work to afford our housing.

DINK also gives you much more flexibility in life but make sure you or your spouse don't spend it on "job creep". It was your choice not to have kids and that doesn't mean you should necessarily use your extra resources (time/money) in finding more purpose in your job.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:24 pm

HobbesMB wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:56 pm
There is a niece and nephew who will benefit from any estate we leave behind, but we get to approach retirement with the intent of spending every last dime before we croak.
That is indeed a large financial benefit. Much easier to buy a couple of SPIAs when you have no inheritance plans.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by staythecourse » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:10 pm

Biggest issue will be when you get older. I'm a doc and see it A LOT. Without a child and thus a possible DIL you will have to figure out what you will do when (I didn't say IF) you lose your mental faculties and/ or physical ones. Most of us will not be a Taylor (kudos Taylor). Most of us will lose are faculties and children may (big may) help out.

The out of town estranged child is still more useful then the childless individual (in my experience). It is an aspect that will not be talked about on this forum, but I see it everyday.

So biggest advice is to find someone who IN ADVANCE who will help you on that aspect. A close friend or relative (YOUNGER then you guys) is something I would look for in someone who can help in the future who has your best interest at heart. A nephew, neice, younger cousin, next door neighbor, etc.. Also, for the female in the relationship it is important to find out what you want in living conditions when your spouse passes away (males usually go first) with no other close family and thus future grandchildren around to live near.

Good luck.

p.s. Sorry about such a somber post, but just wanted to give a glimpse of what I see everyday from those who have kids and those who don't when it comes to aging and healthcare issues.
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by rhinopylon » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:26 pm

hitchman wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:11 am
There are a myriad of reasons why one may choose not to have any children, but if financial reasons are the top then I presume no amount of money or planning will make the person happy.
It seems like a couple reviewing their finances prior to making such a large decision as having children would be a pretty wise thing to do.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Lynx310650 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:24 pm

Thank you everyone. As usual, very informative and thoughtful responses.

Like many responses, I'd say our main (and maybe only) concern specific to not having children is the issue of care when we get older. We are somewhat lucky in the regard that we both are the eldest sibling and have some younger siblings (10/15 years younger for 2 of them) and of course young nephews and nieces. Hopefully at least one will be willing to check in on us from time to time and at least make sure we don't get taken advantage of if our mental faculties decline. For day-to-day care if we ever need it, hopefully we'll have a good amount of $$$ saved up to pay for live in care. Of course, hopefully this is something we don't have to consider for another 30-40 years, and maybe by then we'll have robots then for elder care :D .

The life insurance suggestions were a good one, but I realized we both have decent policies through our employers. If we lose this for whatever reason I think we'll consider some kind of term life policy to carry us until we are comfortably financially independent. If our savings is enough to cover the expenses of both of us, it should be enough to cover just 1 person.

Again, thanks!

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by BogleWogle » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:51 pm

rhinopylon wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:26 pm
hitchman wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:11 am
There are a myriad of reasons why one may choose not to have any children, but if financial reasons are the top then I presume no amount of money or planning will make the person happy.
It seems like a couple reviewing their finances prior to making such a large decision as having children would be a pretty wise thing to do.
+1

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by gotester2000 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:51 am

Being a parent is one of the most difficult -financial, physical and emotional draining part of life, but, also the most enjoyable that I ever had - and it has no link whether the children will take care of my older self.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by max12377 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:05 am

Hmm, so if you are a DINK, that makes me a SINK (Single Income no kids). Not sure I like the sound of that .. :shock:

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by warner25 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:31 am

HomerJ wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:24 pm
HobbesMB wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:56 pm
There is a niece and nephew who will benefit from any estate we leave behind, but we get to approach retirement with the intent of spending every last dime before we croak.
That is indeed a large financial benefit. Much easier to buy a couple of SPIAs when you have no inheritance plans.
This was discussed extensively in another thread earlier this week, and I still don't get it. Even as someone with kids, I don't understand the assumption that anyone (short of having kids with disabilities who need ongoing support, of course) should leave a big pile of money to their adult children when they die. The best explanation I've received is that people will "feel like a jerk" if they don't. But I wouldn't mind seeing my own parents buy a SPIA or leave everything to charity (presumably benefiting people who could use it more than me at that point). It's their money.
Lynx310650 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:43 pm
Buy vs rent: This is definitely subjective as I know plenty of singles and DINKs who own, but we've always been renters and considering renting until retirement. This has given us the flexibility to always move and rent close to work to cut down on commute times, and also keeps overall housing costs down (we've always lived in 1 bedrooms).
This is the biggest financial advantage... the ability to live reasonably well in 1BR in a poor school district. That isn't necessarily a buy vs. rent decision, but in many areas it is. Anyway, the last year my wife and I were DINKs, we saved 70% of our income while splurging on travel with every long weekend or vacation week. Now, with one income and kids, and much less travel, we save 30% - the cost of childcare (SAHM) and housing (3BR+) is the difference. So from my perspective, if you spend as little as my wife and I did/would without kids, you've essentially "won the game" by deciding to be DINKs. You should accordingly think about how to "quit playing." I mean, you could probably reach early financial independence with a very low allocation to stocks just because it's so easy for you to spend less and save.

SrGrumpy
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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by SrGrumpy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:11 am

max12377 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:05 am
Hmm, so if you are a DINK, that makes me a SINK (Single Income no kids). Not sure I like the sound of that .. :shock:
Better than being a LINK - low incomes, no kids.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by mmmodem » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:53 am

When we were DINKs, we thought similar to you. We had no life insurance since we both intend to remarry and continue to work. We just had the free accidental life insurance that work provided and no add ons. The beneficiary of our accounts would go to each other. If we were both incapacitated then it goes to our older siblings 50/50, hers and mine, as we both had more responsible older siblings. Tertiary beneficiaries are our younger siblings.

We preferred owning a home and thus had a small 2 bed home. I used my Roth IRA as the emergency fund but DW preferred to use CDs. As DINKs we were saving some 75% of our paycheck. Those were good times... I felt no need for an emergency fund as most things we could pay out of pocket. Anything greater life, home, or health insurance and a credit card would cover.

Our siblings used us as beneficiaries as well and since they did have kids, they calculated a salary for us that would cover one of us to quit our jobs or daycare to take care of our nieces and nephews.

And when DD came, we purchased term life insurance, bought a larger home, and gym membership we don't use. Our paid off college deathtrap hoopties were replaced by an SUV and a fuel efficient Prius.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by retire57 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:07 am

DINKs here, now retired. Built a nice nest egg as a result of lower living expenses, no college funding, small ER, and no life insurance premiums.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by kfitz1313 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:44 am

warner25 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:31 am
This was discussed extensively in another thread earlier this week, and I still don't get it. Even as someone with kids, I don't understand the assumption that anyone (short of having kids with disabilities who need ongoing support, of course) should leave a big pile of money to their adult children when they die. The best explanation I've received is that people will "feel like a jerk" if they don't. But I wouldn't mind seeing my own parents buy a SPIA or leave everything to charity (presumably benefiting people who could use it more than me at that point). It's their money.
I can give you my reasons for why I believe one should leave a big pile of money to their adult children even if you choose to dismiss it. Children do not make a choice to enter life. If they never have the option to opt out or veto being born then by default I would put 100% responsibility onto the parents. Therefore any suffering the child experiences is completely on the parents. Money can (although may not) ease some or even the majority of a child's particular forms of suffering. Choosing to abnegate responsibility for that is morally wrong and therefore leaving all money to said children is the "right" thing to do. BTW I would say this is true even before parent death in that they should always put their child's suffering above their own.

If the children choose to turn around and donate it all to charity then fine. We don't allow pet owners to decide after two or three years that they've done the job of raising their pets and wonder why they still expect food shelter and healthcare but for some reason children at age 18 are on their own. This makes no sense. The children admittedly have more ability than a pet (obviously) to provide for themselves but they equally never had the change to decide whether they wanted to. Forcing something onto someone (life) and then expecting them to be grateful for it is a pretty strange move and yet that is the default in society.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by FederalFIRE » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:33 am

Lynx310650 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:43 pm
Married, approaching 40, will not have children. Was wondering if there were other BHs in the same situation and what (if anything) you may be doing that might be slightly (or very) different to general financial advice? A couple of things off the top of my head:

Emergency fund: With each person making enough income to support the other if need be, and no other mouths to feed, we deliberately keep a small e-fund, just 1-2 months of expenses.

Buy vs rent: This is definitely subjective as I know plenty of singles and DINKs who own, but we've always been renters and considering renting until retirement. This has given us the flexibility to always move and rent close to work to cut down on commute times, and also keeps overall housing costs down (we've always lived in 1 bedrooms). We also like the flexibility of moving at the drop of a hat if need be to follow career opportunities.

Life insurance: Decided no need, the other half can support themselves!
We're not in the exact same situation, but have been married, DINK, for 10 years now. Something changed in both of us about a year ago and we've decided to have kids, but up until that point the plan had always been no kids.

Our approach on E-fund was similar, though we do own a house because it's significantly cheaper to buy where we are and we intend to stay around.

Perhaps it's a bit different for you, but in our case my spouse made considerably less than I did. Enough that we could live on it if something happened, but it would be a big adjustment. To help account for this we have kept life insurance on me only. Enough to pay off the mortgage, have 10 years of taxes and homeowners insurance covered, and to cover funeral expenses and/or a big last medical bill. For us that only comes out to about $400K of insurance, and the peace of mind knowing that my spouse would have all those burdens off her financial plate made a big difference to both of us. At the relatively low cost of that level of insurance it seems worth it to me to avoid adding financial stress/pressure to what would already be a terrible time for her.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by kramer » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:36 am

I am an early retired SINK, been retired about 12 years, now almost in my mid-50's. I would say these are the financial behaviors that I do or will do differently due to being single and childless:

* I don't spend as much as I could now, saving more for the future when I might have to purchase home care or nursing home care.
* Not concerned about leaving a huge inheritance, although I suspect there will be plenty, I really hope that QLACs become an efficient financial product over the next 15 years. I would probably purchase around age 70 for payments beginning at age 80 or so. As of now, they don't seem to offer good value, but that could be due to the small market size.
* I have a responsible, intelligent younger sibling, and I hope to share all of my financial details with her as I grow older. I maintain close contacts with just about all of my extended family despite living abroad.

I also rent, and have always rented, not sure if I will ever buy until I really settle down in 10 to 20 years.

Note: QLAC = deferred annuity, offers much higher mortality credits than a regular SPIA

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by minimalistmarc » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:51 am

We were DINKs until 36 and now have 2 kids.

I’ll be honest, life with kids is so much harder, but also wonderful.

The worst part is sleep deprivation.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by vtMaps » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:54 am

max12377 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:05 am
Hmm, so if you are a DINK, that makes me a SINK (Single Income no kids). Not sure I like the sound of that .. :shock:
I am retired and she is still working. One income OINK. Not sure I like the sound of that .. :shock:

--vtMaps
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by dcabler » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:02 am

livesoft wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:19 pm
Doesn't sound much different from us --- except we had kids.

1. Rented until late 30's.
2. No kids until late 30's.
3. Never bought life insurance.
4. Our emergency fund was invested since our taxable account grew large enough to not bother with cash anywhere.

I guess you could do what we did: Invest the income (salary) of the highest paid spouse and live the soft life off the income of the lowest paid spouse.

And now our youngest child will graduate from college, so we are back to No Kids again. :)
Interesting.
1. Bought a house in early 30's
2. No kids until late 30's
3. Bought group life insurance for me when DW stopped working after kid was born since I was then sole breadwinner. Bought a smaller policy for her in case she passed while kid was younger. Her policy is now minimal. Kid is starting college in the fall. Will bring mine down to minimal after she finishes college.
4. Nothing "designated" as an emergency fund. Don't see the need at this point (late 50's) as I can sell something and get cash within a couple of days - otherwise, it's credit cards...

While DW was working we saved 100% of her salary and lived on mine - very similar...

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by fizxman » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:27 am

I'm one half a DINK couple and one thing I haven't seen mentioned is when other DINK couples in your circle have kids. When friends have kids, they usually don't have the time to hang out with you like they used to. Friends of ours had their first kid about 5.5 years ago and it really wasn't until their second kid turned two that we started seeing them more often. Another couple had their first kid shortly before DW and I got married three years ago and we've run into them once or twice since then. This obviously depends on the DINKs and their friends but be prepared to possibly see less of your friends if they have kids.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by Nissanzx1 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:40 am

We are DINKs Male 41, Female 37. We would love kids, just hasn’t happened for us yet.

We run about 12 month Emergency Fund, paid-for modest 1700 SQ Ft home. We have small (250K) term life policies. We probably save 30% between IRA’s, 401K’s, brokerage, etc. Plan is to leave it to our 29 nieces and nephews if we don’t ever have kids.

Nice vacations, nice wine, traveling to see friends, giving to church/local organizations, decent cars, nice jewelry/watches, etc is how we spend left over income.

I can’t see myself working much past 62, but we will see how the health insurance situation shakes out.

I’d argue that being DINK’s, you should run large EF because it’s a luxury you can afford. As far as housing, if you are going to constantly be relocating (ugh sorry hate moving) to follow/chase the next best thing, you probably should be renting. But I’d have a sinking fund saved back where I could write a check for a nice home at retirement. When your income turns fixed, it won’t be fun when the landlord jacks up the rent on you.

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Re: Permanent DINK couples - Considerations, thoughts, etc?

Post by 3-20Characters » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:43 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:22 am
I'm just curious. Why do couples even marry if they have made a conscious decision not to have children? Alternatively, do most DINKs end up childless due to a health issue where they married with the intention to have children but was not able to? I wonder if there is any research on this.
Being wed in the eyes of the law is the surest and simplest way to assure yourselves the same rights and protections as every other married couple. Any number of scenarios can arise where an unmarried partner may not have status (or have their status challenged)—situations that a married partner takes for granted. Medical POA, inheritance, and SS and pension survivor benefits are a few I can think of.

Edit: got curious and searched.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateashfor ... t-married/

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