Resign from job or possible termination

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
munemaker
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by munemaker » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:18 am

CollegePrudens wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 am
I think LadyGeek is suggesting that discussion of dishonest behavior is not allowed on this board. Whether one chooses to engage in the behavior (souped up references) described by TIAX below is an individual's choice. Just don't discuss it here :beer .
TIAX wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:28 am
LadyGeek wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am
Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable.

I removed a post suggesting that persons supplying employment references be untruthful.
A potential employer contacts you to act as a reference for your friend and one of the questions asked is "does [your friend] have any weaknesses?" Would you consider it "dishonest behavior" to say no even though you can in fact think of weaknesses that would lose your friend the job? Have you ever done that? If not, would you if you this situation came up? Has anyone ever done that for you? If not, would you be ok if they did?
I lost a friend over this one time. I was a newer employee at a large company. A manager asked me about an applicant he was planning to hire. The guy was a coworker of mine from a previous employer and also a friend. The guy had not asked me to be a reference but apparently he had given my name. Possibly the manager could have asked me about him because we both had worked at the same company, but pretty sure my name was given as a reference. While I liked the guy, he was a lightweight at work; I was honest and did not give him a positive reference. I was new there and did not want a recommendation of this guy to adversely affect my career. Either HR or the manager must have told him because I never heard from him again and was too embarrassed to call him. I was torn over this and still wonder to this day if I did the right thing.

TIAX
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by TIAX » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:27 am

This is a tough call, depending on the friend. But I was thinking more of a situation where another employer contacts you for a reference, not yours.
munemaker wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:18 am
CollegePrudens wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 am
I think LadyGeek is suggesting that discussion of dishonest behavior is not allowed on this board. Whether one chooses to engage in the behavior (souped up references) described by TIAX below is an individual's choice. Just don't discuss it here :beer .
TIAX wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:28 am
LadyGeek wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am
Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable.

I removed a post suggesting that persons supplying employment references be untruthful.
A potential employer contacts you to act as a reference for your friend and one of the questions asked is "does [your friend] have any weaknesses?" Would you consider it "dishonest behavior" to say no even though you can in fact think of weaknesses that would lose your friend the job? Have you ever done that? If not, would you if you this situation came up? Has anyone ever done that for you? If not, would you be ok if they did?
I lost a friend over this one time. I was a newer employee at a large company. A manager asked me about an applicant he was planning to hire. The guy was a coworker of mine from a previous employer and also a friend. The guy had not asked me to be a reference but apparently he had given my name. Possibly the manager could have asked me about him because we both had worked at the same company, but pretty sure my name was given as a reference. While I liked the guy, he was a lightweight at work; I was honest and did not give him a positive reference. I was new there and did not want a recommendation of this guy to adversely affect my career. Either HR or the manager must have told him because I never heard from him again and was too embarrassed to call him. I was torn over this and still wonder to this day if I did the right thing.

SrGrumpy
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by SrGrumpy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:34 am

caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
This was true, in my case. I knew I was on death row, and it was just a matter of time. It was oddly relaxing. In the meantime, I did take advantage of company resources to see a psychologist. I also used up my Flexible Spending Account, did some elective surgery, and spent a lot of time surfing Amazon, etc.

Hang in there. Whatever happens, I guarantee you will feel better in the next phase of your life.

TIAX
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by TIAX » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:35 am

SrGrumpy wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:34 am
caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
I also used up my Flexible Spending Account, did some elective surgery, and spent a lot of time surfing Amazon, etc.
This is actually a very important point. You generally lose all your FSA at termination so try to use it.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48079
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:23 am

I removed an off-topic post. If anyone has a question on why the post was removed, please PM me. Do not post comments here. As a reminder, see: Member Rights in a Dispute, second paragraph.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48079
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:27 am

TIAX wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:35 am
SrGrumpy wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:34 am
caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
I also used up my Flexible Spending Account, did some elective surgery, and spent a lot of time surfing Amazon, etc.
This is actually a very important point. You generally lose all your FSA at termination so try to use it.
To clarify: You are eligible to receive up to the maximum elected amount, regardless of the contributions made to date.

See the wiki: Flexible spending arrangement (Distributions from an FSA), which is directly from IRS Publication 969.
wiki wrote:Generally, distributions from a health FSA must be paid only to reimburse you for qualified medical expenses you incurred during the period of coverage. You must be able to receive the maximum amount of reimbursement (the amount you have elected to contribute for the year) at any time during the coverage period, regardless of the amount you have actually contributed. The maximum amount you can receive tax free is the total amount you elected to contribute to the health FSA for the year.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Colorado13
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:15 pm

Thanks for the flex spending advice. Yesterday I spent my entire allocation for the year on new contacts and glasses. :-)

bling
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by bling » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:16 pm

TIAX wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:35 am
This is actually a very important point. You generally lose all your FSA at termination so try to use it.
heh, this brings back memories. last year i quit and got a new job. during my exit interview the HR person was like "oh BTW your FSA funds expire today!" suffice to say i have a decade's worth of toothpaste now.

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
...
absolutely do not quit until you have a job offer in hand. take vacation days. call in sick.

how did you find out? if it was your manager, and if they were any good they would be encouraging you and helping you find another job.

SrGrumpy
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by SrGrumpy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:39 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:15 pm
Thanks for the flex spending advice. Yesterday I spent my entire allocation for the year on new contacts and glasses. :-)
I would have blown it on Lasik/PRK.

cherijoh
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:49 pm
Location: Charlotte NC

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by cherijoh » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:10 pm

munemaker wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:18 am
I lost a friend over this one time. I was a newer employee at a large company. A manager asked me about an applicant he was planning to hire. The guy was a coworker of mine from a previous employer and also a friend. The guy had not asked me to be a reference but apparently he had given my name. Possibly the manager could have asked me about him because we both had worked at the same company, but pretty sure my name was given as a reference. While I liked the guy, he was a lightweight at work; I was honest and did not give him a positive reference. I was new there and did not want a recommendation of this guy to adversely affect my career. Either HR or the manager must have told him because I never heard from him again and was too embarrassed to call him. I was torn over this and still wonder to this day if I did the right thing.
Personally I think you did the right thing. Imagine what could have happened had you given an enthusiastic recommendation and he had gotten hired. If the guys performance didn't match your glowing reference, your manager would have questioned your judgement. I doubt anyone mentioned having talked to you about him - he probably had given your name as a reference without asking you first and simply put two and two together.

A former teammate of mine was asked to help do screening interviews for an open position on a sister team. The applicant was someone who had been an internal business partner for both of us in an earlier role. The person in question was universally voted as "worst business partner ever" by everyone who worked with her on that project. She changed her mind multiple times resulting in a huge amount of rework, claimed that we had told her that we would do stuff that none of the four people on the call remember even being discussed, never listened to what she was told so things had to be explained multiple times, etc. We were never so glad as when that project wound down.

My ex-teammate explained the situation to the hiring manager and recused herself from doing the interview. The hiring manager later told her that the other interviewers all confirmed the same issues and fortunately the woman was not offered the position. But on paper, her resume made her look like a good candidate because she had the right credentials.

ccieemeritus
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by ccieemeritus » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:42 pm

My understanding (from being a manager in CA) is that unemployment insurance is paid out only for involuntary terminations. Voluntary resignations make you ineligible for unemployment insurance.

So if you plan to apply for unemployment during a gap, check into that before voluntarily resigning. (I am not an expert on unemployment insurance so doublecheck my understanding before acting on it).

A multi-person RIF is not very bad on the job record. Just make sure any termination is not performance-based or misconduct-based.

Beehave
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Beehave » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:39 pm

Assuming you do not believe you'll be fired for cause I'd say keep the job as long as you can or until you find other employment. Keep doing your job as best you can and follow all procedures and directives.
. 1 . If you are forced out you will get unemployment. You won't get it if you resign (or, I think, if fired for cause the employer can dispute unemployment).
. 2 . You will not be putting info about the reason for leaving on any cover letter or resume, so there is no benefit in resigning. If anything, in any interview or on any job application in answering "reason for leaving" I'd rather say or write that my position was eliminated than that I had quit.
. 3 . Make sure you are on LinkedIn and that your profile has the keywords (repeated) that highlight your skills and interests to promote yourself and that you watch LinkedIn carefully for positions that are suitable.
. 4 . I don't know what job area you are in, but the jobsusa website has a wide variety of positions and locations. Take a look and set up an account and apply if you see anything good. Keep a broad, open mind about employment opportunities, especially if you are older.
. 5 . Network with friends or any other trade associations and the like. If there are any free or low-cost journals in your field consider subscribing to stay informed and see job opportunities. If they are distributed by e-mail, try to get them sent to your private e-mail address. If there's an upcoming conference and it's free or low cost, consider attending.
. 6 . Get certifications within your field or specialty.
. 7 . DO NOT SIGN any new non-compete or non-disclosure agreements with your current employer unless you will be compensated for them. If they give no benefits on termination don't give anything in return.
. 8 . If you have a friend where you are now working, especially in mgmt, ask them if they will write recommendations in case you need one in the future. Make sure you have recommendations lined up from any prior employers too as best you can.
. 9 . Best wishes. I've been through the mill and it can be scary and frustrating. Stay positive. Something good will happen.

SrGrumpy
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by SrGrumpy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:14 pm

Beehave wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:39 pm

. 7 . DO NOT SIGN any new non-compete or non-disclosure agreements with your current employer unless you will be compensated for them. If they give no benefits on termination don't give anything in return.
Very important. Don't sign anything until you've taken it all home to peruse and/or have arranged for a professional to scour. They'll put a pile of papers on the desk in front of you, claim it's all standard procedure, and ask you to sign there and then. Repeat: Don't. You have every right to read for as long as it takes for you to comprehend every clause.

Colorado13
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:11 am

cherijoh wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:04 pm

Do you know SAS or one of the BI tools like Tableau? How about SQL? Check out Coursera for some free/low cost data science classes on line.
I work with Tableau, although am not an expert, and do useSQL. Coursera is a great idea - thank you!

bling
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by bling » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:01 am

SrGrumpy wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:14 pm
Beehave wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:39 pm

. 7 . DO NOT SIGN any new non-compete or non-disclosure agreements with your current employer unless you will be compensated for them. If they give no benefits on termination don't give anything in return.
Very important. Don't sign anything until you've taken it all home to peruse and/or have arranged for a professional to scour. They'll put a pile of papers on the desk in front of you, claim it's all standard procedure, and ask you to sign there and then. Repeat: Don't. You have every right to read for as long as it takes for you to comprehend every clause.
also check with your state's laws. a lot of these non-compete/non-disclosures agreements are not enforceable.

lostdog
Posts: 1183
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by lostdog » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:17 am

Financial independence is the best revenge. How quickly can you get there?

Colorado13
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:56 am

lostdog wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:17 am
Financial independence is the best revenge. How quickly can you get there?
Well, if I die young, I'm FI now. (My sense of humor is still intact...somewhat)

I am many years away from Medicare, so healthcare/Cobra will be a major expense. I have minimal debt (I could pay off the mortgage tomorrow, but will not) and enough savings to cover ~2 years of expenses, but this does not include healthcare costs. So, I suppose I realistically have 12-18 months of expenses in savings if I consider healthcare costs. I could live off of unemployment for a while, if I had to.

While my stress is somewhat financial, it is mostly due to never being threatened with being fired and due to the fear of not having my next job lined up. I've haven't been unemployed since I've been 13 or 14 years old! So, I fear this will harm my long term career prospects. :(

am
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by am » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:05 pm

When we say fired for cause, or not renewed for cause, do we mean doing something unethical or dishonest, or is this simply not performing up to par? If not performing up to par, perhaps due to personal difficulties or toxic environment, how do you go about finding the next opportunity and what do you tell future employers? Do you qualify for unemployment?

KlangFool
Posts: 10197
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by KlangFool » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:13 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:56 am
lostdog wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:17 am
Financial independence is the best revenge. How quickly can you get there?
Well, if I die young, I'm FI now. (My sense of humor is still intact...somewhat)

I am many years away from Medicare, so healthcare/Cobra will be a major expense. I have minimal debt (I could pay off the mortgage tomorrow, but will not) and enough savings to cover ~2 years of expenses, but this does not include healthcare costs. So, I suppose I realistically have 12-18 months of expenses in savings if I consider healthcare costs. I could live off of unemployment for a while, if I had to.

While my stress is somewhat financial, it is mostly due to never being threatened with being fired and due to the fear of not having my next job lined up. I've haven't been unemployed since I've been 13 or 14 years old! So, I fear this will harm my long term career prospects. :(
Colorado13,

I had worked for 30+ years. I was unemployed for more than 1 year several times. So, the first cut is the deepest. But, you will adapt and survive.

<<So, I fear this will harm my long term career prospects. :(>>

It will not. It is never as bad as you think.

KlangFool

Colorado13
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Resign from job or possible termination - Update

Post by Colorado13 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:54 pm

Hello Bogleheads. Here's an update: I have received two job offers and am happy to report that one of the offers was a good offer, so I have given notice of resignation to my current employer. I will begin my new job in May. I am thrilled that I avoided termination and will continue to be fully employed. :-)

I can't thank you enough for your support and advice. Thank you very much!

Beehave
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination - Update

Post by Beehave » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:54 pm
Hello Bogleheads. Here's an update: I have received two job offers and am happy to report that one of the offers was a good offer, so I have given notice of resignation to my current employer. I will begin my new job in May. I am thrilled that I avoided termination and will continue to be fully employed. :-)

I can't thank you enough for your support and advice. Thank you very much!
I'm really happy to hear that! I'm sure you'll do it without my saying - - - but work your tail off on the new job and keep learning and expanding your skill base.

Congratulations and best wishes!!!!! :D :sharebeer

User avatar
TheFIminator
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:11 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by TheFIminator » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:46 am

I was in a similar situation many years ago and completely understand how stressful it is. The first thing to remember is, this is only a temporary situation. Over the course of your life, this is just a relatively short time of stress and as with most things in life, time will heal and things will get better. If you have the right frame of mind, you will be able to deal with this situation much better and will be more appealing to a new employer.

Without knowing the full details, I would suggest you stay in the job while looking for a new job. Its always easier to find a new job when you are employed. It will also keep the money coming in. It will be stressful to stay in a job in such a situation but it may be more stressful to be without a job and no income.

Hang in there and keep a positive mindframe, it did help me. Also, I hope you have family and friends who can support you. It helps greatly to keep talking to people about the situation,

Colorado13
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Resign from job or possible termination - Update

Post by Colorado13 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:46 am

Beehave wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 pm
I'm really happy to hear that! I'm sure you'll do it without my saying - - - but work your tail off on the new job and keep learning and expanding your skill base.

Congratulations and best wishes!!!!! :D :sharebeer
Thank you so much! That's a great reminder of what I need to do next! I'm excited for the new chapter in my career.

staythecourse
Posts: 6016
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by staythecourse » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:06 am

This one is SO easy no reason to read the other responses. Look for a job NOW and do NOT resign. Much easier to find one when you still have a job. Everybody wants someone in demand (they have a job already) not someone sitting at home orphaned by the working world (unemployed). It is human nature like dating. Everyone wants to date the in demand girl or guy and not the one sitting at home watching t.v. every Saturday.

Also, the unemployment benefit issue is real as well. My advice, is to find something quick before being terminated then slowly find your "perfect" job. Again easier when you have a current job.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

mbres60
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:47 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by mbres60 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:09 am

staythecourse wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:06 am
This one is SO easy no reason to read the other responses. Look for a job NOW and do NOT resign. Much easier to find one when you still have a job. Everybody wants someone in demand (they have a job already) not someone sitting at home orphaned by the working world (unemployed). It is human nature like dating. Everyone wants to date the in demand girl or guy and not the one sitting at home watching t.v. every Saturday.

Also, the unemployment benefit issue is real as well. My advice, is to find something quick before being terminated then slowly find your "perfect" job. Again easier when you have a current job.

Good luck.
If you spent your time reading the thread you would know that the OP already has a new job ;)

staythecourse
Posts: 6016
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by staythecourse » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:10 pm

mbres60 wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:09 am
staythecourse wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:06 am
This one is SO easy no reason to read the other responses. Look for a job NOW and do NOT resign. Much easier to find one when you still have a job. Everybody wants someone in demand (they have a job already) not someone sitting at home orphaned by the working world (unemployed). It is human nature like dating. Everyone wants to date the in demand girl or guy and not the one sitting at home watching t.v. every Saturday.

Also, the unemployment benefit issue is real as well. My advice, is to find something quick before being terminated then slowly find your "perfect" job. Again easier when you have a current job.

Good luck.
If you spent your time reading the thread you would know that the OP already has a new job ;)
DOH!! :oops:

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 14128
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Resign from job or possible termination - Update

Post by Watty » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:24 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:54 pm
Hello Bogleheads. Here's an update: I have received two job offers and am happy to report that one of the offers was a good offer, so I have given notice of resignation to my current employer. I will begin my new job in May. I am thrilled that I avoided termination and will continue to be fully employed. :-)

I can't thank you enough for your support and advice. Thank you very much!

Congratulations, be sure to leave your current job on as positive terms as possible.

You might want to update your original post to give an update too so be don't respond to that without knowing that things have changed.

Post Reply