Resign from job or possible termination

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Colorado13
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Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am

UPDATE: I am happy to report that I recently accepted a job offer for a job I am very interested in and plan to leave my current employer on the best terms possible. I learned long ago to not burn bridges, so that's my plan. Thanks VERY much to everyone who offered advice and support - I appreciate it very much!


Original post:

I'm dealing with a situation that I've not experience before, so need advice. It's likely that my job is going to be eliminated, with no severance offered, just a payout of vacation time. I'm debating whether I should resign before this occurs. I've been looking for a new job and have not received any viable offers yet, all offers have been well below my current salary.

Pros of resigning:
More time for job search
Ability to leave on my terms/not have to put on future job applications that the position was terminated. I'm very concerned that this will harm my job search
Ability to leave a toxic work environment
Regain health, which has diminished greatly due to job stress
I have about 2 years of expenses in my emergency fund, with minimal debt, so could pay health insurance out of pocket if it comes to that

Cons of resigning:
I won't be eligible for unemployment benefits, most likely, but need to do more research on this
Will lose health/medical insurance
I'm not in IT and the job offers I've received thus far are at low salaries. I'm tempted to accept the next offer just to have insurance
I'm very concerned that a gap in employment will greatly harm my job search

I'm scared and stressed about this situation. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Thank you!
Last edited by Colorado13 on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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munemaker
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by munemaker » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:38 am

Personally I think you should stay until you either find a job or are terminated.

Having a job puts you in a better position to negotiate with a potential employer. When you don't have a job, you are in a position of weakness.

Also, potential employers are going to look at you with suspicion when you don't have a job.

Dantes
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Dantes » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:46 am

You are the best judge of your health, and the impact of your current situation. How long do you think things will drag on before your position is terminated?

Is your organization large enough to be subject to COBRA (I think its 20 employees or more)? If so that would provide access to health insurance for move than a year. That and the prospect unemployment benefits would be arguments for sticking it out, at least if this was a matter of a few months.

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C4NT
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by C4NT » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:47 am

I personally would not jump unless you received a good offer somewhere else.

Who knows you might not lose your current job. But, since it sounds like you are not happy I would double my efforts of finding a new gig.

Good luck.

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djpeteski
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by djpeteski » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:53 am

If it was me, I would stay until the end. Quite honestly my last job search was similar to yours. I was going to be terminated for cause, eventually, and they were just working through the process. The problem was I couldn't figure out why. Later I did, it was just a toxic environment much like you describe.

So you will need to do a bit of research. Is this company paying you way more then they should be paying a person with your skill set? I ask this because the latest offers are quite low compared to what you make now. This could be part of the problem they have with you. What is a realistic salary for your skill set?

The good news is that you did receive offers, so you can move on at any time. If this place is so toxic then you should take an acceptable offer compared to just quiting.

And there is light at the end of the tunnel, hopefully you end up like I did with a great position and team that I enjoy working with.

MikeG62
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:12 am

OP, my recommendation is not to resign without another job in hand. The primary reason being potential future employers might be skeptical as to why you resigned. While you might explain it was a toxic environment, they may think/worry that you are not a team player or you are someone who cuts and runs at the first sign of difficulty. You do not want or need this cloud hanging over your head.

In terms of interviewing after your position has been eliminated, most potential employers will understand why you are out of a job - positions get eliminated all the time. As such, it was not a work performance issue, but just a bad set of circumstances.

In the meantime, you should be aggressively putting yourself out there, spending every evening looking and applying for other positions. Best scenario would be you finding and accepting another position before your current one is eliminated.
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Tamarind
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Tamarind » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:19 am

If you are going to be terminated not-for-cause, stick it out but start job hunting now. If you can't find something at least you'll have the unemployment cushion. Terminations, IMO, don't hurt your chances of finding a new job unless they are for-cause or frequently repeated.

I would recommend you complete the process of detaching emotionally from your current job, and give it only what is absolutely necessary. You'll have more time and energy for the job search that way.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 am

Do not resign - for all of the above reasons unless your life is immediately at risk. Normal job terminations are pretty much standard in private industry, it’s pretty common, constant rejiggering of business that sometimes unfortunately requires job eliminations. While loss of employment can be scary (been there, yeah, it sucks) you can spin it in your favor, leaving employment for reasons other than health, much more difficult to spin, future employers will wonder what underlying issues are potentially lurking.

No, continue to collect your paycheck while you look for new employment. Employers offering less, another unfortunate thing - the health insurance issue is crimping mobility, but that is another story.
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Dandy
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Dandy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:01 am

Been there and it is not a great situation to be in. In my case the job was very stressful and I had a stressful situation in the family and was 52. I found the stress declined when I became resigned to the fact that was going to be terminated. I focused on doing my job, helping my staff and customers and letting the BS roll off my back. The job wasn't as stressful and I could focus better on planning my future and negotiating my exit.

Your health is critical and if you are so stressed you need to find a way to be terminated or resign.

gotester2000
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by gotester2000 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:10 am

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
I'm dealing with a situation that I've not experience before, so need advice. It's likely that my job is going to be eliminated, with no severance offered, just a payout of vacation time. I'm debating whether I should resign before this occurs. I've been looking for a new job and have not received any viable offers yet, all offers have been well below my current salary.

Pros of resigning:
More time for job search
Ability to leave on my terms/not have to put on future job applications that the position was terminated. I'm very concerned that this will harm my job search
Ability to leave a toxic work environment
Regain health, which has diminished greatly due to job stress
I have about 2 years of expenses in my emergency fund, with minimal debt, so could pay health insurance out of pocket if it comes to that

Cons of resigning:
I won't be eligible for unemployment benefits, most likely, but need to do more research on this
Will lose health/medical insurance
I'm not in IT and the job offers I've received thus far are at low salaries. I'm tempted to accept the next offer just to have insurance
I'm very concerned that a gap in employment will greatly harm my job search

I'm scared and stressed about this situation. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Thank you!
How much less are you getting in new offers?
Are you in stress because of job loss fear?
Can you mention your field of work so people can guide you better?

If your health is diminished due to job loss fear - you need to relax and change your mindset. No job is permanent. Most of the time we feel the environment toxic due to this fear.

Your current salary is a starting point but not the end point. Do not compare new offers with current salary and you may find the search easier.

Do not worry about termination and stick to current job as far as possible. Even if you are terminated you can get a new job - just prepare your reason.

This happens to many people - you are not alone - relax your mind and take action.

mmmodem
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by mmmodem » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:17 am

I'm sorry you have to go through this. I had a similar experience last year. I'm not in IT and I don't care about pay beyond providing my family a safe and comfortable lifestyle. I believe if you are happy, you will be successful at work, and the pay raises will come. I'm now much happier in a new position that surprisingly pays me more.

I chose to resign because my wife was gainfully employed and had access to healthcare. If she did not, I would've muddled through with a toxic work environment until I landed a new job. I laughed at the COBRA statement. Who can afford this?

Another aspect is that termination is a bad mark on a resume. Are you going to be terminated or is your job being eliminated? Job elimination won't be as issue as that is common. One gap in your employment isn't a big issue either as you can explain it easily. Multiple gaps are the problem.

On unemployment, it will depend on your situation. It's not a blanket answer. My wife got unemployment benefits despite a resignation. Think of it as you paid into your state employment through taxes and you are claiming what you paid into. You may be denied but it doesn't hurt to apply and you won't know until you apply.

On your pros, you don't get more time for job search. You'll have the same amount of time before or after the current job. You get to search for your job sooner which is not necessarily a good thing.

On regaining health, I can tell you that I was just as miserable or more while unemployed than while working. The feeling of self worthlessness and abject failure as an able provider for my family hung like a cloud over me more or less like my terrible micro managing boss at work. The stress at watching my emergency fund dwindle down was just as hurtful as going to work at a place that doesn't value me. I'm fairly certain that I would not have regained any mental health if I had to worry about paying COBRA also. Work stress would be replaced by depression.

Good luck on whatever you choose. :sharebeer I'm hoping the best for you!

Hillview
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Hillview » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:16 am

Could you take FMLA for health reasons? Generally speaking resigning without a job in hand is not the best financial decision. A lot depends on how employable you are and how much you NEED to work for money/what you have in savings.

GCD
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by GCD » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:20 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:38 am
Personally I think you should stay until you either find a job or are terminated.

Having a job puts you in a better position to negotiate with a potential employer. When you don't have a job, you are in a position of weakness.

Also, potential employers are going to look at you with suspicion when you don't have a job.
This. IIRC several studies have shown there is a bias against unemployed people in the hiring process. It is much easier to find a job when you already have one.

Helo80
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Helo80 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:23 am

I think that you are putting too much emphasis on how other companies will perceive this termination/layoff/firing/etc. Good people are lost in layoffs and company closings. I would stay on to the very end, but also be actively looking around for a new opportunity.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by ClevrChico » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:29 am

I'd recommend continuing your job search while you're still working if possible. Already having a job gives you much better leverage to negotiate, and you can be choosy about finding a job you really love vs. settling.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:43 am

If things are toxic, take all your vacation time. If you have no job, expect all offers to immediately drop 25%. Plus, you get no unemployment compensation if you quit. Stay as long as possible to give you job search time and of course continue with salary and benefits.
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caffeperfavore
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by caffeperfavore » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am

Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?

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Watty
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Watty » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:50 am

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
Regain health, which has diminished greatly due to job stress
Being unemployed is stressful too but this could trump all the other factors.
Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
Cons of resigning:
I won't be eligible for unemployment benefits, most likely, but need to do more research on this
It sounds like you do not have a problem getting a low paying job offer but it is not clear why you were even applying for those jobs. Once you get a job offer of any sort you would almost certainly lose your unemployment benefits.
Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
....no severance offered, just a payout of vacation time.
Any chance you could take the vacation time now?
Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
I have about 2 years of expenses in my emergency fund, with minimal debt, so could pay health insurance out of pocket if it comes to that
Since you have so much in funds then one option and you are not having a lot of luck in looking for a new good paying job is that you could leave that job to return to school or training to make you more marketable. In some fields becoming certified with some skill is valuable even if you don't work on a degree.

That would allow you to leave without being fired and it would explain any gap in your work history. Even if you just went to school this summer then decided to go back to work in the fall that could work out OK.

A couple of points;

Unless it is a very small company or some special situation you likely can extend your employer health insurance with COBRA. One thing to be aware of is that if you are fired for "gross misconduct" (whatever that is) then you may be denied COBRA. With an Affordable Care Act health plan you might be able to get a subsidy but that gets trickey with the rules about being eligible for COBRA, be sure to look into the details of when you can and can't get the subsidy when COBRA is involved. There is also no telling what a ACA policy will be like next year.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:52 am

OP,

Come on.

1) I received multiple Employee awards on the year that I was laid off.

2) Everyone get terminated sometime. So, unless it is for cause, I won't worry about it.

3) Even for cause, you should not just accept it. It will take a lot of time and trouble for the employer if you choose to fight it. They probably will just let you go instead of spending more effort on you.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:53 am

caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
+1000.

KlangFool

joeblow
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by joeblow » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:02 am

caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
+1

OP: if possible get your LORs now. Then focus on the job search. Put the absolute bare minimum effort into current job.

Olemiss540
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Olemiss540 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:04 am

Meditate, exercise, something! Keep working, keep searching, but most importantly try anything you can to fight the stress you are feeling. You need to realize work is not causing this, your mind is causing it! Having been through a debilitating bout of it myself, all I can say is I sympathize and tell you that it WILL get better.

Improve your mindset at work, find ways to come home energized and excited to find a new opportunity. Don't dwell on the now, focus on the tomorrow.
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BolderBoy
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by BolderBoy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:07 am

Tamarind wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:19 am
If you are going to be terminated not-for-cause, stick it out but start job hunting now. If you can't find something at least you'll have the unemployment cushion. Terminations, IMO, don't hurt your chances of finding a new job unless they are for-cause or frequently repeated.
Agree with this approach.

What kind of work do you do?
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BeneIRA
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by BeneIRA » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:07 am

OP,

First, if you have any sick time, Personal Days, Floating Holidays, or any time that is not explicitly PTO or Vacation, it will not be paid out to you. I would recommend taking those days immediately or else they will be lose. PTO I would not take because you want it paid out to you. As others have stated, just stick it out until they get rid of you. It is much more beneficial in the long run. Don't apply for jobs you know you won't take due to the low salary. You need to only apply for jobs that you may want to actually receive an offer from.

Go in, do your job, but that's it. Nothing heroic, nothing exciting. The bare minimum will be fine if you know the termination is coming. Best of luck.

JBTX
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by JBTX » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:41 am

I’m not sure resigning makes you look any better than a RIF (reduction in Force). RIFs are fairly common these days.

Unless it is intolerable I’d stick it out.

BeerTooth
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by BeerTooth » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:59 am

Maybe I'm just cynical, but why don't people just stretch the truth a bit about their current employment situation? If employers truly use it to discriminate against candidates, why give them a reason to reject you? They rarely contact references to verify employment..and if they do, just move on to the next one. You don't owe them anything.

dcabler
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by dcabler » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:06 am

Been through a lot of jobs/companies at mini, mid, and megacorps over a 34 year career. My observations

- unless you're forced to, don't resign a job without another job in hand
- I've never seen a penalty, either as a prospective employee or as a hiring manager, for somebody who was released not-for-cause.
- consider whatever your local state laws might be regarding resigning vs. released not-for-cause relative to unemployment benefits. You don't want to do anything to miss out on that and it can definitely take some of the sting off between jobs. In my case, it pretty much covered Cobra which was always my biggest concern.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:07 am

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
Pros of resigning:
More time for job search
Ability to leave on my terms/not have to put on future job applications that the position was terminated. I'm very concerned that this will harm my job search
Having been on the hiring side of the inteview desk more than once, I can tell you that I looked more favorably on someone whose job was eliminated out from under them than someone who just decided to quit. If you can stick it out, I'd say that would be your better option, both for the next interview and for claiming unemployment in the meantime.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

quantAndHold
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by quantAndHold » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:08 am

If the job is harming your health, can you go on disability? I was in a similar situation. I stuck it out until I just couldn’t anymore. Later, I realized that was a mistake.

If both you and your employer agree that the job is a bad fit, can you engineer them letting you go sooner rather than later? You really do want to get the unemployment, but it sounds like you need to get out on your schedule, not theirs.

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MnyGrl
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by MnyGrl » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:24 am

Resigning usually means that you cannot collect unemployment, at least in my state.

Don't quit and keep looking.

dcabler
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by dcabler » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:05 am

[Quoted post removed by admin LadyGeek]

5) Never ever trust anyone in HR and never go to HR. These people will sell their grandmothers for their next career move. HR is never your "advocate" and always assume anything you tell HR goes straight back to your boss.

+1000 I learned this the hard way. They are not your friend. They are not your shoulder to cry on. They do not represent you. They represent the company and the executive management. I try not to engage any more than I have to and it's usually just to understand a procedure.

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Pajamas
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Pajamas » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:14 am

Yes, don't quit your current job, but start looking for a better job now. Put your effort into that.

If your company is undergoing "re-engineering" or reorganization or whatever they are calling it and that involves reducing the number of employees, there is usually more than one round. Even if you make it through the first wave, you might not make it through the second or third wave.

There are usually some people who come out ahead, take on greater responsibility, get promotions, receive more pay, etc. It's usually pretty clear after the first wave who those people will be.

The basic question for each employee should be, "Do I want to stay at this company even if I can?" You seem to have already answered this question as working there harms your mental and physical health.

So start looking for another job now, but don't take anything that you can get just to have health coverage, look for a better job.

Good luck.

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by TIAX » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:22 am

caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
This is correct. I certainly wouldn't be worrying about deadlines, etc. I'm sure you'd still be stressed over possibly losing your job but I'm guessing you'll be more stressed unemployed.

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dm200
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by dm200 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:30 am

Many decades ago, I was in a very in demand IT profession and chose to quit - then get a new job. All worked well.

That was then.. In recent years, as best I understand, it becomes much more challenging to find a new job if you don't have one.

I would not resign ...

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dm200
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by dm200 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:32 am

5) Never ever trust anyone in HR and never go to HR. These people will sell their grandmothers for their next career move. HR is never your "advocate" and always assume anything you tell HR goes straight back to your boss.

+1000 I learned this the hard way. They are not your friend. They are not your shoulder to cry on. They do not represent you. They represent the company and the executive management. I try not to engage any more than I have to and it's usually just to understand a procedure.
My belief, understanding ans experience as well (although there may be some exceptions).

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dm200
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by dm200 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:33 am

MnyGrl wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:24 am
Resigning usually means that you cannot collect unemployment, at least in my state.
Don't quit and keep looking.
That is very state dependent. As I understand and have experienced, the rules are for the state where you were last employed - not the state of residence - if different.

JoeRetire
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by JoeRetire » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:19 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
I'm scared and stressed about this situation. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Thank you!
Why are you being terminated? Why no severance?

It's always better to look for your next job while remaining on a payroll. Financial pressures often force folks to choose a suboptimal job. In addition, you'll be asked by potential employers why you quit. As a long time hiring manager, I always preferred folks who were laid off over those who chose to quit.

Step up the job search and stay employed as long as you can.

If you still haven't found a new job when this one goes away, you'll have plenty of time each day to continue looking while collecting unemployment.

cruzbay
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by cruzbay » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:50 pm

As a recruiter, I have to say that you need to be careful of your languaging around the "termination." You, my friend, are not being terminated. Your job is being terminated. Big difference. Also, have an answer to the question "Why are seeking a new opportunity?" practiced and 'at the ready.' Something to get across the reason the job was eliminated (without giving away any secrets of your current employer) such as budget, merger and thus redundancy in job functions, relo of the function, etc. The second part is to give an idea of how many people were involved. I always want to make sure that it wasn't a "layoff of one" which could indicate performance issues. Say NOTHING about toxic environment, feeling like you got the shaft after all those years of loyalty, etc. Say you want to build upon your xx years of experience in yy and want to continue to learn more about zz. Always forward thinking. Always how you can contribute to the success of your next employer.

Given that you have had offers, albeit lower than you hoped, it shows that you can interview. Without knowing your field of expertise, I would say that you might want to look at your transferable skills and parlay that into a related field that may pay more. Also, network/let your contacts know what you seek so that if they see it they can let you know. If you are on LinkedIn, be sure to mark your profile as "Interested in Opportunities." With my LinkedIn Recruiter license, I look at those candidates first and sometimes only. If you do this, make sure your profile gives enough detail about what you have done in your jobs for a recruiter to know if you are a potential match. Just a job title (unless really obvious or with a known high quality company) will move me on to the next candidate.

If you find that you do end up with time between jobs, it is a good time to take a class or learn something that will help in your target position. Shows that you are a learner, take the initiative and want to advance your skills. Even if it is self-study.

You should not feel guilty or stressed about mirroring the level of loyalty/effort that your company is showing you right now. Check in, do what you have to do, focus your thinking and efforts on your search. In the meantime, you have a salary and benefits. On a personal note, sometimes you think there is traffic, but when you get out of the lane you realize that you were just stuck behind one big truck. Open highway! Good things will come to you even if the push out of the nest is scary. Without it, the little bird doesn't fly!

ecotone
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by ecotone » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:54 pm

If you have PTO available, use it and spend the time job hunting.

2015
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by 2015 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Never ever state on an employment application or during an interview that you were laid off, fired, or quit. Always state you left one job for the next (preferable, or the position or the organizational level was eliminated (only if you have to). 'Just like we don't always click with certain people, there's no guarantee we will click with every or even the majority of our bosses. You can move faster in 1 year under a good boss than you can in 5 years under a bad one. Good bosses, good departments, good teams, and good organizations are like striking gold. They will do more for your life and your career than wasting time trying to "strike it rich" via the stock market.

The employment world is nothing more than a game. But a very serious game. It's in your best interest to view it so. Taking any job seriously or equating it with your identity is tantamount to drinking poison. Your real job for the entirety of your working life to obtain the highest amount of ROE (return on energy) for the time your expend. This translates into getting the highest salary you possibly can through the ongoing strategic marketing (resume) and selling (interviews) of yourself and building the perceived value you can add (usually translates into only working on those projects where you are making things cheaper, better, or newer). Try to build a career or working life where it appears you took on progressive responsibility, because responsibility for results is where the money is. In any job you should always be preparing yourself for the next job with a higher salary.

Remember, people higher in the organization are not necessarily smarter or more effective than you. I once worked in a Fortune 20 organization where the CEO failed to turn around the company, received a severance package in the hundreds of millions of dollars, only to go on to another well known organization and fail there. Most people in so-called organizational leadership positions are just more strategic with respect to their careers or have better access than you.

MJW
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by MJW » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:15 pm

OP: You have shared few details around the impending elimination of your position. Are you certain that: a) it's actually going to happen, and b) you will not receive severance?

Ideally, as many respondents have already expressed, you would remain in your job until you find a new job or you're shown the door. If for whatever reason you do elect to leave before either event you should at least have a game plan prepared to explain your decision to prospective employers. It is not a lost cause to go this route, but your reasons should not suggest that you are the problem as opposed to your circumstances. Also, the better connected you are to the professional community in your area, the greater the likelihood that things will turn out alright for you either way. A good word from a trusted source to the actual decision makers in a company can go a long way.
Last edited by MJW on Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RetireBy55
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by RetireBy55 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:16 pm

Ah, the "toxic work environment" that impacts your personal health. Been there, done that, visited the theme park and have the T-shirt to remind me every single solitary day of the experiences.

My current gig is 100% this way and I've also lived it for roughly the past 10 or so years at multiple companies, not a single one of which was "good". Toxic does not begin to describe the current position. Our mascot (believe it or not) is a Shark. Yes, a Shark. The predator of the seas, who's sole objective is to eat everything in it's path and do the maximum in destructive damage. Welcome to my gig, where people PRIDE themselves on how "Shark-like" they can be.

Health has been impacted in a huge way. Doc wants me to go on FMLA to get the HE double toothpicks OUT of harm's way. Have literally thought I may die as a result of the stress, and there have been nights I've gone to bed wondering if the morning would come. NOT GOOD.

Yet, for many of the same reasons as you, I've stayed put. That, and the "OMQ" (One. More. Quarter) syndrome. See, I vest RSUs - to the tune of >$40K per quarter above my salary and bonus to stay. That's compelling. But when you're being eaten alive by sharks, that $40K per quarter becomes a secondary consideration.

I want to stay 2 more quarters at this point (with ~$90K in additional comp beyond base + bonus), then my plan is to bail. Am interviewing like mad. Need to GET. OUT. before I go out feet first, with a toe tag on.

It's a tough situation - I've been without a job before (corporate politics..FUN!) and it is a MAJOR pain to find a gig when you don't have one. Nightmares of 2008 come to mind..

IF you can manage, tough it out until you find a new job. Me - I plan to either find a great new gig (highly unlikely at my age) or retire at just south of 55 if I can get to August this side of the dirt (as in, dirt over my grave). I'm FI and can do it - but RE at slightly < 55 is a very difficult thing to come to terms with, and I'm struggling with the concept. Even though I CAN RE, my work is my identity - and I'm feeling pretty lost thinking I will no longer do what I do but instead will fill my time with far different things.

Best of luck.

Colorado13
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:18 pm

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful advice and support.

Some additional information/answers to questions: The job I received an offer for was a Federal Gov't job with a very wide salary range and I was offered at the very low end of the range, which was about $50K lower than the upper end of the salary range. I was surprised by the lowball offer, but am thankful for the interviewing experience. My expertise is somewhat related to business intelligence, evaluation, statistics, and process improvement. All are part of my responsibilities, so I'm a fabulous and flexible employee, but don't have the deep BI skills that qualify me for most IT jobs. I plan to work on developing my data science skills to become more marketable.

Yes, I do believe the I will be terminated. Even today, my boss continues to transition my work to others. I believe he's planning to make me expendable by shifting my workload to other team members.

Yes I am stressed because of fear of job loss. I appreciate the advice about possibly going to school, doing FMLA, and unplugging. I will continue the job search and will have access to Cobra if/when I am terminated. I will put the job search in high gear and stick it out to the end...at least that's the plan for now.

Colorado13
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by Colorado13 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:32 pm

RetireBy55 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:16 pm
Ah, the "toxic work environment" that impacts your personal health. Been there, done that, visited the theme park and have the T-shirt to remind me every single solitary day of the experiences.

My current gig is 100% this way and I've also lived it for roughly the past 10 or so years at multiple companies, not a single one of which was "good". Toxic does not begin to describe the current position. Our mascot (believe it or not) is a Shark. Yes, a Shark. The predator of the seas, who's sole objective is to eat everything in it's path and do the maximum in destructive damage. Welcome to my gig, where people PRIDE themselves on how "Shark-like" they can be.

Health has been impacted in a huge way. Doc wants me to go on FMLA to get the HE double toothpicks OUT of harm's way. Have literally thought I may die as a result of the stress, and there have been nights I've gone to bed wondering if the morning would come. NOT GOOD.

snip...

Best of luck.
Best of luck to you too! I'm sorry you're in this situation, it sounds very challenging, to say the least. I hope things turn around for you very soon. "Not good" is right! Please take care of yourself.

cherijoh
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by cherijoh » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:50 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 am
I'm dealing with a situation that I've not experience before, so need advice. It's likely that my job is going to be eliminated, with no severance offered, just a payout of vacation time. I'm debating whether I should resign before this occurs. I've been looking for a new job and have not received any viable offers yet, all offers have been well below my current salary.

Pros of resigning:
More time for job search
Ability to leave on my terms/not have to put on future job applications that the position was terminated. I'm very concerned that this will harm my job search
Ability to leave a toxic work environment
Regain health, which has diminished greatly due to job stress
I have about 2 years of expenses in my emergency fund, with minimal debt, so could pay health insurance out of pocket if it comes to that

Cons of resigning:
I won't be eligible for unemployment benefits, most likely, but need to do more research on this
Will lose health/medical insurance
I'm not in IT and the job offers I've received thus far are at low salaries. I'm tempted to accept the next offer just to have insurance
I'm very concerned that a gap in employment will greatly harm my job search
I'm scared and stressed about this situation. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Thank you!
keep in mind that quitting your current job without an offer in hand could be viewed more negatively than being out of work due to having your job eliminated. And I would be surprised if you were able to qualify for unemployment unless you get laid off.

You don't mention your age, but if you have been getting offers below your current salary it may be due to your age/years of experience. Most of the posted jobs tend to be for "junior" positions 3 - 5 years of experience, 5 - 7 etc.

cherijoh
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by cherijoh » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:04 pm

Colorado13 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:18 pm
Thanks to everyone for the wonderful advice and support.

Some additional information/answers to questions: The job I received an offer for was a Federal Gov't job with a very wide salary range and I was offered at the very low end of the range, which was about $50K lower than the upper end of the salary range. I was surprised by the lowball offer, but am thankful for the interviewing experience. My expertise is somewhat related to business intelligence, evaluation, statistics, and process improvement. All are part of my responsibilities, so I'm a fabulous and flexible employee, but don't have the deep BI skills that qualify me for most IT jobs. I plan to work on developing my data science skills to become more marketable.

Yes, I do believe the I will be terminated. Even today, my boss continues to transition my work to others. I believe he's planning to make me expendable by shifting my workload to other team members.

Yes I am stressed because of fear of job loss. I appreciate the advice about possibly going to school, doing FMLA, and unplugging. I will continue the job search and will have access to Cobra if/when I am terminated. I will put the job search in high gear and stick it out to the end...at least that's the plan for now.
Do you know SAS or one of the BI tools like Tableau? How about SQL? Check out Coursera for some free/low cost data science classes on line.

t885
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by t885 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:27 am

caffeperfavore wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 am
Maybe I'm a bad person, but if I knew that I was being terminated, I would not be feeling any job stress anymore (at least not due to the working conditions). I mean, what can they do, fire you?
LOL
There are two kinds of forecasters: those who don't know, and those who don't know they don't know

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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am

Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable.

I removed a post suggesting that persons supplying employment references be untruthful.
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by TIAX » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:28 am

LadyGeek wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am
Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable.

I removed a post suggesting that persons supplying employment references be untruthful.
A potential employer contacts you to act as a reference for your friend and one of the questions asked is "does [your friend] have any weaknesses?" Would you consider it "dishonest behavior" to say no even though you can in fact think of weaknesses that would lose your friend the job? Have you ever done that? If not, would you if this situation came up? Has anyone ever done that for you? If not, would you be ok if they did?
Last edited by TIAX on Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CollegePrudens
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Re: Resign from job or possible termination

Post by CollegePrudens » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 am

I think LadyGeek is suggesting that discussion of dishonest behavior is not allowed on this board. Whether one chooses to engage in the behavior (souped up references) described by TIAX below is an individual's choice. Just don't discuss it here :beer .
TIAX wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:28 am
LadyGeek wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am
Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable.

I removed a post suggesting that persons supplying employment references be untruthful.
A potential employer contacts you to act as a reference for your friend and one of the questions asked is "does [your friend] have any weaknesses?" Would you consider it "dishonest behavior" to say no even though you can in fact think of weaknesses that would lose your friend the job? Have you ever done that? If not, would you if you this situation came up? Has anyone ever done that for you? If not, would you be ok if they did?
Live as if you were to die tomorrow; learn as if you were to live forever - Gandhi

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