Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance >> Alternative to ACA until age 65 >>Possible Solutions??

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Sandtrap
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Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance >> Alternative to ACA until age 65 >>Possible Solutions??

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm

Original Post>>
Couple: Age 64
Residence: Arizona
Medical Insurance: ACA - Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona (only one available) "Silver Plan"
Monthly payment with ACA "subsidy" $484
Monthly payment if without ACA "subsidy" $3,053.28
Medical Bills for 2017: less than $20,000 (if no medical insurance).

Due to a quirk in our retirement transition (selling business, income went to zero for a short time) DW and I estimated our actual taxable gross :shock: income for 2017 to be "under" the $60,000 threshold for ACA medical insurance premiums. We were quoted $484/month for the "Silver" Plan. Deductibles were high. Coverage was poor.

When doing our taxes for 2017, we found out our gross income was $65,000 (aprox) about $5,000 over the ACA "subsidy" threshold. Now, according to our tax program. We "owe" the ACA $28,690 :shock:
This means that I would have paid less than $20,000 if I did not have medical insurance.
And, $8,690 above that back to the ACA. (Obamacare).

1. This does not make sense to me. $3,053/month for ACA medical insurance coverage which covers very little seems unreasonable. Please explain.

2. There is a huge difference between the monthly premium "subsidized" and "non" at that $60,000 break point. Please explain.

3. If my gross income was only (claimed) $65,000. How can I owe the ACA that much? How do folks survive on this type of system? Did I figure this wrong?

4. I have one more year to Medicare. I have more than enough assets to self insure. Would it be wise to cancel this insane medical insurance policy for one year? Or just expect to pay about $36,000 for medical insurance for DW and I for the coming year?

**(edit - last question added for 2018)

5. So does this mean that I am better off paying the apron. $3,000 monthly premium for 2018 and be able to deduct it from my taxes VS continuing the "subsidy" setup and get "dinged" $30,000 retroactively by the ACA and unable to take that deduction?
Is this correct or am I more confused? :shock: :oops:

Appreciate everyone's help and clarification on this.
DW is upset :shock:
mahalo,
j
End Original Post >>
FOLLOW UP FOR OTHERS TO BENEFIT.
WHAT WE MAY OR MAY NOT END UP DOING.


Thank you everyone for your wonderful help.
DW and I researched our alternatives to paying $36,000 :shock: for one more year of ACA "Blue Cross Blue Shield" before Medicare eligibility.

Our options Are:
0. Continue the ACA policy for 1 more year.

1 United Health Care: at $1500/mo. Monthly policy with a catastrophic rider (6 pos renewable), fixed rate indemnity. Not Deductible. PPO. There are also 5 different levels. Our quoted price based on the highest "bundle", "Health Protector Guard" plan + Accident Safeguard Plan + Short Term Medical Plus Elite".

2 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona (offered through IHC below) "short term policy only". Minimal coverage, limited term (less than 3 months > 88 days.

3 IHC Group. "Care Access Plan" Fixed rate indemnity, PPO, No Deductible. Mo to Mo coverage till age 65. Very similar to United Health Care except deductible on the catastrophic rider was $5000 vs $2500, $1350 vs $1500 in premiums for similar coverage, with the "MetalGap it was close".
http://echealthinsurance.com/wp-content ... ochure.pdf

4 IHC Group had 3 plans: "Superior", "Value", and "Economy". We can buy the "Superior".

Some broad strokes:
http://www.ihcgroup.com/consumers.aspx

As far as I know, these types of alternatives were not available to us in 2017 except the 88 day Blue Cross policy. There was nothing outside of the ACA and within that, only 1 policy. United Health Care was not available in 2017 except through an employer.

Should I continue with ACA or go for the indemnity plan?
I did a research on IHC Group and the Consumer Complaints and Reports did not look good.

mahalo,
jim :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:41 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Pajamas
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:12 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm

1. This does not make sense to me. $3,053/month for ACA medical insurance coverage which covers very little seems unreasonable. Please explain.

Insurance for people in their 60s is expensive. You spent $20k on healthcare. One or two hospitalizations and your medical care would have been much more than your premiums. Here's what affects the costs:

https://www.legalconsumer.com/obamacare ... D=75&ST=AZ


2. There is a huge difference between the monthly premium "subsidized" and "non" at that $60,000 break point. Please explain.

You were getting a large subsidy including premium tax savings applicable to all plans plus extra savings for choosing a Silver plan.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cos ... reduction/


3. If my gross income was only (claimed) $65,000. How can I owe the ACA that much? How do folks survive on this type of system? Did I figure this wrong?

You have every right to be angry. The financial aspects of health care in the U.S. are a significant problem for individuals, families, employers, state and federal governments, health care providers and facilities, nonprofit organizations, etc. Other countries like Canada and the UK have less costly and more equitable systems.
.

4. I have one more year to Medicare. I have more than enough assets to self insure. Would it be wise to cancel this insane medical insurance policy for one year? Or just expect to pay about $36,000 for medical insurance for DW and I for the coming year?

You don't have enough assets to self-insure in all instances unless you have many, many millions of dollars to spend on health care. At the very minimum, you should get catastrophic coverage if you choose to pay out-of-pocket for your health care. The fact that you had $20k in expenses this year is an indication that you could have much greater expenses at any time.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by CaliJim » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:18 am

All I can say is: I feel your pain.

Medical insurance costs are THROUGH THE ROOF for individual/family coverage. I agree that the income cut-offs don't make sense; there perhaps should be a more progressive ramp between subsidized and non-subsidized costs... but there isn't... and we can't talk politics in this forum.

In our case...Anthem Blue Cross raised our rates 25% recently to $24k/yr for the two of us (60yo) for a grandfathered individual/family plan.

What we did to trim costs:

1) Switched to an even higher deductible plan
2) Asked Anthem for a Risk Review to see if they could lower our rates (we are generally healthy, non-smokers, no heart or metabolic issues, but I have very mild asthma and wife has osteopenia). We are waiting for the results of this request....
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Tyler Aspect » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:22 am

The ACA subsidy cutoff for a family of 2 in year 2017 was $64,960. This is a hard cut-off; if your MAGI is above it then you do not get any ACA premium subsidy at all.
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by nalor511 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am

Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am

nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

What other last minute changes to my MAGI are possible at this late date, post 2017?
I could gift funds to my "offspring" to lower the MAGI threshold but probably not applicable to do it post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

TG2
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by TG2 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Yes, if you had sufficient earned income during the year you could contribute $13,000 ($5500 + $1000 catch-up for each) and deduct that amount to put you below the threshold. You can do the contribution up until the due date of the return.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:58 am

TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Yes, if you had sufficient earned income during the year you could contribute $13,000 ($5500 + $1000 catch-up for each) and deduct that amount to put you below the threshold. You can do the contribution up until the due date of the return.
Wow!
I will take your advice and run the numbers.
Appreciate the help.
Mahalo
jim :D

TG2
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by TG2 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:05 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:58 am
TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Yes, if you had sufficient earned income during the year you could contribute $13,000 ($5500 + $1000 catch-up for each) and deduct that amount to put you below the threshold. You can do the contribution up until the due date of the return.
Wow!
I will take your advice and run the numbers.
Appreciate the help.
Mahalo
jim :D
That would be a heck of a deal. Contribute $13,000 and the tax savings would pay for not only the contribution but next year's too? :D

mhalley
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by mhalley » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:06 am

Wife and I are 63 and bronze plan is over 2400 a month so the price for an unsubsidized silver plan seems correct.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:12 am

TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Yes, if you had sufficient earned income during the year you could contribute $13,000 ($5500 + $1000 catch-up for each) and deduct that amount to put you below the threshold. You can do the contribution up until the due date of the return.
I have a combination of business income from rentals and also dividends and interest from a "Bogle Portfolio". No paycheck. Does this qualify?

Next year's earnings from the "Bogle" portfolio will be much higher. Is there anyway I can generate more "contributions" or other vehicle to reduce my MAGI?

One more year until Medicare. . . . Eggads! :shock:
Thanks again,
jim :D

TG2
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by TG2 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:27 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:12 am
TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:47 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 am
Maybe you could contribute to an IRA or other last minute changes that would lower your AGI for last year
Would it be possible to contribute $5500 (i think this is the annual maximum) for DW and $5500 for myself which would lower the AGI $11000 which might help me squeak by under that ACA limit?
Would I be able to make this contribution now? Post Dec 31, 2017?

Appreciate the help.
Still confused.

mahalo,
jim :D
Yes, if you had sufficient earned income during the year you could contribute $13,000 ($5500 + $1000 catch-up for each) and deduct that amount to put you below the threshold. You can do the contribution up until the due date of the return.
I have a combination of business income from rentals and also dividends and interest from a "Bogle Portfolio". No paycheck. Does this qualify?

Next year's earnings from the "Bogle" portfolio will be much higher. Is there anyway I can generate more "contributions" or other vehicle to reduce my MAGI?

One more year until Medicare. . . . Eggads! :shock:
Thanks again,
jim :D
Dividends and interest do not qualify as earned income. Rental income generally does not, though I think it may if that is in fact your business. You will need to verify that for your situation. Good luck!

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by madbrain » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:42 am

Yes, this is correct. Crazy system we have with the steep cliff around $64,000 MAGI. If you are on the wrong end of it, it can cost you $10-$15k extra/year. You could conceivably pay 41% of your gross income on healthcare, last time I ran the numbers, if you miss out on the premium subsidy and are right at the edge. Best situation was to have silver plan with cost-sharing subsidies, but the current administration has gotten rid of those.

I'm not 64 yet, but I have priced the policies for that age. For 2 people age 64 in CA, a Kaiser Bronze 60 HDHP plan would be $1495.56 month . Platinum would be $2561.64/month . This is without subsidies, and not counting out of pocket expenses.
I'm really surprised your quote is higher, and for an inferior plan.

Including the out-of-pocket expenses, either plan would cost us over $30k a year with the amount of healthcare we consume - 8 prescriptions each at ages 40 - 46, including several very pricey patented ones. Without insurance, our meds alone would be $60k a year in the US.
It would cost less to fly to Thailand for each refill since they ignore the patents on many meds over there, and annual med costs would be down to $1000/year.

Enjoying the employer healthcare in the US while it lasts for now - about $10000/year for 2 including premiums and copays, $6000 of it paid by employer.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by madbrain » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm
2. There is a huge difference between the monthly premium "subsidized" and "non" at that $60,000 break point. Please explain.
The exact income threshold to qualify for premium subsidy is 400% FPL MAGI, which is $64,080 for a family of 2 for 2017 tax returns.
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act ... tax-credit

nalor511
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by nalor511 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:48 am

I think you can also contribute until April 2018 to have the contribution effective for tax year 2017.

Then if you discover you don't have enough earned income, you have until at least Dec 2018 to 'remove excess contribution' without any penalty , and that income will go back onto your 2018 income, since that's when it came back out of the IRA

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by munemaker » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:24 am

Advice to others: If you are planning to use ObamaCare, understand the rules a couple years in advance. There are a lot of things that can be done then. If you wait until the last minute, your options are limited.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by RetireBy55 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:32 am

TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:27 am

Dividends and interest do not qualify as earned income. Rental income generally does not, though I think it may if that is in fact your business. You will need to verify that for your situation. Good luck!
Pretty sure the ability to get premium subsidies at <=4X FPL is based off your MAGI, which to the best of my knowledge does, absolutely, include dividends and interest.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:53 am

RetireBy55 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:32 am
TG2 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:27 am

Dividends and interest do not qualify as earned income. Rental income generally does not, though I think it may if that is in fact your business. You will need to verify that for your situation. Good luck!
Pretty sure the ability to get premium subsidies at <=4X FPL is based off your MAGI, which to the best of my knowledge does, absolutely, include dividends and interest.
I think what TG2 was saying was that in order for the OP to contribute the $13k to tIRAs to lower his AGI ($6,500 each for he and spouse) he would need that $13k to be earned income, not income off dividends and rentals. The divs and rental income most certainly count toward AGI when factoring in the 4x FPL.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by smitcat » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:02 am

Please spend some time figuring your specific situation as it refers to MAGI....

Calculating MAGI
Gross income (GI) is calculated first when calculating MAGI. Gross income is an individual's total income earned through wages, interests, dividends, rental and royalty income, capital gains, business income, and any other type. After GI is calculated, an individual then adjusts that income by subtracting qualified deductions from the GI number, deriving AGI. Allowable deductions are listed on the front page of tax form 1040.
These deductions are made up of standard adjustments such as retirement plan contributions, student loan interest, tuition, self-employed health insurance payments and others. An individual's AGI is important because it's calculated before itemized or standard deductions, exemptions and credits are taken into account. It dictates how an individual can apply various tax credits and exemptions. For example, AGI affects the amount of money that can be claimed for the dependent care credit and the child tax credit.
MAGI is then calculated after finalizing the AGI number. To calculate MAGI, the taxpayer adds back certain deductions to AGI, many of which are rare and not realized by individuals. Therefore, it's fairly uncommon to have a MAGI that differs greatly from an AGI. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) explains that deductions added back to calculate MAGI include things such as student loan interest, tuition, rental loss, and IRA contributions. The MAGI then dictates the use of premium tax credits and retirement plans. For example, eligibility for premium tax credits occurs when an individual's MAGI is less than 400% of the federal poverty line for their family size.


Read more: Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/ma ... z57kdcTdba
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by rkhusky » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:12 am

Taxable earned income includes:

Wages, salaries, tips, and other taxable employee pay;
Union strike benefits;
Long-term disability benefits received prior to minimum retirement age;
Net earnings from self-employment if:
You own or operate a business or a farm or
You are a minister or member of a religious order (see Special Rules page for more information);
You are a statutory employee and have income. (See definition of statutory employee on our Helpful Definitions and Acronyms for EITC page).
Examples of Income that are Not Earned Income:

Pay received for work while an inmate in a penal institution
Interest and dividends
Retirement income
Social security
Unemployment benefits
Alimony
Child support.
However, IRS rules for IRA's use the term "taxable compensation", which is somewhat different than earned income:
To contribute to a traditional IRA, you must be under age 70½ at the end of the tax year. You, and/or your spouse if you file a joint return, must have taxable compensation, such as wages, salaries, commissions, tips, bonuses, or net income from self-employment. Taxable alimony and separate maintenance payments received by an individual are treated as compensation for IRA purposes. Compensation doesn't include earnings and profits from property, such as rental income, interest and dividend income, or any amount received as pension or annuity income, or as deferred compensation.
See: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590a# ... 1000230355

It appears that if you have a business that involves rental properties and you pay yourself a salary from that business, it would be taxable compensation. But if you simply get rent from a tenant, it would not be taxable compensation for the purposes of IRA contributions.

Perhaps there are business expenses that you overlooked, which could reduce your income?

DetroitRick
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by DetroitRick » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:17 am

I feel your pain. Crossing those cliffs can be horribly expensive. And there are actually three of those cliffs:
#1: the low end where you qualify for Medicaid (modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) under 138% of Federal Poverty Level, in Medicaid expansion states)
#2: over 250% FPL where cost sharing subsidies go away (lower deductibles and out of pocket limits) and
#3: over 400% FPL where the Premium Tax Credit goes away. For 2017 in the lower 48 for a family of 2, as is mentioned up thread, 400% is exactly $64,080. Just under your number.

To your 4 points:

1)Yes, That gross premium of $3,053 is horribly expensive, especially with the deductibles and out of pockets that go with it. Lots of contributing factors, and many areas don't have enough insurer competition in the Marketplace either. In Michigan, we pay (age 61 and 56) $1,480 per month gross. We are lucky in that a good HMO was available, in a competitive marketplace: had we stuck with the PPO plan that we used several years ago, we would pay $2,200 per month today. And these premiums increase every year with age. So you have at least 4 things making that premium so high - age, local competitive conditions, geography and the overall high cost of healthcare. Plus other factors too.
2)Crossing those breakpoints (FPL %'s) CAN be massive. $1 in incremental income can make a tax credit go away, or can raise your deductible by a huge amount. Just before you hit the 400% level, the premium tax subsidy limits your cost for the benchmark second lowest silver plan to just under 10% of your MAGI. Cross 400% and there is no premium subsidy at all. By what you presented, you cross that 400% line unfortunately.
3)So once you cross the line where you don't qualify for the premium tax credit, 400%, you are no longer eligible for any the subsidy already received. The amount you have to pay back is subject to certain caps though (but only for those under 400%). Your subsidy was $2,569 per month ($3053 less $484). Not qualifying then explains how you could owe that much. As to how folks survive, it's made me become a part-time tax planner. Other people I know, especially those with rental income and the like, depend on their accountants to help them plan. It's not easy. There aren't many other places in the tax code where incremental dollars are this devastating. Plus, in retirement this type of planning needs to span multiple years for many of us. Rules beyond the current year are unknowable at this point in time, in my opinion. :annoyed
4)It's a really personal choice and is tough to say. I'm not comfortable going without insurance myself, because of medical bankruptcies and near-bankruptcies that I've seen, but there is a limit. Your $36k number would be above the limit I could personally tolerate. Maybe consider shopping for a Bronze or off-exchange catastrophic policy? To still limit the ultra high-end risk but reduce premium cost. That's sort of the shopping exercise from hell!

So this MAGI thing is the critical semi-controllable component. Given what you outlined, your MAGI would be equal to your federal AGI (assuming no non-taxed social security, non-taxable interest or foreign earned income to add back). Now that the 2017 tax year is closed, the only way I can think to lower 2017 income after-the-fact is via the IRA contribution that others have mentioned. But only if you have earned income, and it seems that you do not. I wish I could suggest something else to do, but I am not aware of any other alternatives. I really hope somebody here knows different.
Last edited by DetroitRick on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:21 am

rkhusky wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:12 am
Taxable earned income includes:

Wages, salaries, tips, and other taxable employee pay;
Union strike benefits;
Long-term disability benefits received prior to minimum retirement age;
Net earnings from self-employment if:
You own or operate a business or a farm or
You are a minister or member of a religious order (see Special Rules page for more information);
You are a statutory employee and have income. (See definition of statutory employee on our Helpful Definitions and Acronyms for EITC page).
Examples of Income that are Not Earned Income:

Pay received for work while an inmate in a penal institution
Interest and dividends
Retirement income
Social security
Unemployment benefits
Alimony
Child support.
However, IRS rules for IRA's use the term "taxable compensation", which is somewhat different than earned income:
To contribute to a traditional IRA, you must be under age 70½ at the end of the tax year. You, and/or your spouse if you file a joint return, must have taxable compensation, such as wages, salaries, commissions, tips, bonuses, or net income from self-employment. Taxable alimony and separate maintenance payments received by an individual are treated as compensation for IRA purposes. Compensation doesn't include earnings and profits from property, such as rental income, interest and dividend income, or any amount received as pension or annuity income, or as deferred compensation.
See: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590a# ... 1000230355

It appears that if you have a business that involves rental properties and you pay yourself a salary from that business, it would be taxable compensation. But if you simply get rent from a tenant, it would not be taxable compensation for the purposes of IRA contributions.

Perhaps there are business expenses that you overlooked, which could reduce your income?
No salaries paid from the rental business, only direct rent paid personally.
Not looking good at all on that end :(
Also have royalty income from our photography portfolio's from Getty, etc, etc. But it is not a salary.
No looking good.

There is a $14,000 annual gift allowance and I have 2 sons.
Is that useful?
Or is it too late to use that since it is now 2018?
And, or, is that not considered a deduction?

Thanks.
j

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:36 am

Gifts do not change your AGI nor your MAGI.

If you do not have any earned income, the only other remaining possibility to reduce your AGI and MAGI would be contributing to a Health Savings Account (HSA). You have until April 17 to contribute up to $7,750 to an HSA if you are qualified. You wrote that your ACA policy is high deductible, but you need to check whether your particular plan crosses all the t's and dots all the i's to be a qualifying high deductible plan for eligibility to contribute to an HSA.

See tfb's post for more advice.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am

dodecahedron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:36 am
Gifts do not change your AGI nor your MAGI.

If you do not have any earned income, the only other remaining possibility to reduce your AGI and MAGI would be contributing to a Health Savings Account (HSA). You have until April 17 to contribute up to $7,750 to an HSA if you are qualified. You wrote that your ACA policy is high deductible, but you need to check whether your particular plan crosses all the t's and dots all the i's to be a qualifying high deductible plan for eligibility to contribute to an HSA.

See tfb's post for more advice.
Thanks so much for the help and the "link".
Hopefully I'll be able to use a combination of the IRA and the HSA to "save my bacon".

Would that be $7,750 each for DW and I for a total of $15,500 ?????

mahalo,
j :D

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by tfb » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:09 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:21 am
No salaries paid from the rental business, only direct rent paid personally.
Not looking good at all on that end :(
Also have royalty income from our photography portfolio's from Getty, etc, etc. But it is not a salary.
No looking good.
[EDIT: Incorrect, see posts below.]

Although you don't have income that makes you eligible for a traditional IRA contribution, it doesn't stop you from making it and taking a deduction for 2017, as nalor511 wrote and perhaps didn't get adequate notice.
nalor511 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:48 am
I think you can also contribute until April 2018 to have the contribution effective for tax year 2017.

Then if you discover you don't have enough earned income, you have until at least Dec 2018 to 'remove excess contribution' without any penalty , and that income will go back onto your 2018 income, since that's when it came back out of the IRA
Your contribution will be an excess contribution. You follow a special procedure with the IRA custodian to remove it and the associated earnings. The returned amount will be taxable in 2018. You have more time in 2018 to make sure your income does not go above 400% FPL again: charge lower rent, earn less interest, stop selling photos, ...
Last edited by tfb on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by lightning » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am

I don't believe that you can deduct an IRA contribution with no earned income. So excess IRA contribution wont help. You could fill out the tax form incorrectly, I suppose, but no tax software is going to do that.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:29 am

lightning wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am
I don't believe that you can deduct an IRA contribution with no earned income. So excess IRA contribution wont help. You could fill out the tax form incorrectly, I suppose, but no tax software is going to do that.
I'm using TurboTax.

thanks,
j :D

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:37 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am
dodecahedron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:36 am
Gifts do not change your AGI nor your MAGI.

If you do not have any earned income, the only other remaining possibility to reduce your AGI and MAGI would be contributing to a Health Savings Account (HSA). You have until April 17 to contribute up to $7,750 to an HSA if you are qualified. You wrote that your ACA policy is high deductible, but you need to check whether your particular plan crosses all the t's and dots all the i's to be a qualifying high deductible plan for eligibility to contribute to an HSA.

See tfb's post for more advice.
Thanks so much for the help and the "link".
Hopefully I'll be able to use a combination of the IRA and the HSA to "save my bacon".

Would that be $7,750 each for DW and I for a total of $15,500 ?????

mahalo,
j :D
If you have a family coverage policy (defined as a policy covering at least two people), the two of you can contribute a combined maximum of $6,750 for 2017, plus $1,000 extra for each of you who is over 55. So if you are both over 55, you can contribute a combined total of $8,750 for 2017.

Edited to correct age after helpful PM pointing out my error.
Last edited by dodecahedron on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:42 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:29 am
lightning wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am
I don't believe that you can deduct an IRA contribution with no earned income. So excess IRA contribution wont help. You could fill out the tax form incorrectly, I suppose, but no tax software is going to do that.
I'm using TurboTax.

thanks,
j :D
TurboTax (and all other known tax software) has most certainly been known to fill out tax forms incorrectly. It is not omniscient, as a former Treasury Secretary who relied on TurboTax famously testified.

Whether and when rental income counts as "earned income," is a complicated topic that I would not rely on tax software to discern. Under some circumstances, e.g., landlords who are actively engaged in working on their rental properties (e.g., performing maintenance, interviewing and screening tenants, collecting rents, etc.) at least some of the rental profits might be considered earned income. This is not something that I would expect TurboTax (or any other tax software) to discern. According to this article, you might need to have set up the structure of your rental business carefully in order to consider any of your rental income earned. If you didn't already do this setup in advance, it is too late now.

At this point, I would suggest that the HSA route is the more promising one to spend time investigating further.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:56 am

Would the rental income qualify for a business retirement account like a SEP IRA or a Solo 401k? I’m not too familiar with either as a W2 employee, but throughing it out there as a possibility.

Also, have you taken all possibl deductions for the properties, including depreciation/depletion? Many times a rental property can be cash-positive but be cash-negative in the light of taxes.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Pajamas » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:04 pm

If your Silver plan requires copays before the deductible is met, it doesn't qualify for an HSA. The only exception would be copays for preventive care.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by MP123 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:37 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am
dodecahedron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:36 am
Gifts do not change your AGI nor your MAGI.

If you do not have any earned income, the only other remaining possibility to reduce your AGI and MAGI would be contributing to a Health Savings Account (HSA). You have until April 17 to contribute up to $7,750 to an HSA if you are qualified. You wrote that your ACA policy is high deductible, but you need to check whether your particular plan crosses all the t's and dots all the i's to be a qualifying high deductible plan for eligibility to contribute to an HSA.

See tfb's post for more advice.
Thanks so much for the help and the "link".
Hopefully I'll be able to use a combination of the IRA and the HSA to "save my bacon".

Would that be $7,750 each for DW and I for a total of $15,500 ?????

mahalo,
j :D
If you have a family coverage policy (defined as a policy covering at least two people), the two of you can contribute a combined maximum of $6,750 for 2017, plus $1,000 extra for each of you who is over 50. So if you are both over 50, you can contribute a combined total of $8,750 for 2017.
I believe the catch up age for the extra $1,000 in HSA accounts is 55 not 50.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Tyler Aspect » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:21 am
No salaries paid from the rental business, only direct rent paid personally.
Not looking good at all on that end :(
Also have royalty income from our photography portfolio's from Getty, etc, etc. But it is not a salary.
No looking good.

There is a $14,000 annual gift allowance and I have 2 sons.
Is that useful?
Or is it too late to use that since it is now 2018?
And, or, is that not considered a deduction?

Thanks.
j
Royalty income might be earned income. Have to follow the procedures for documentation and declaration. Relevant link below:

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0500820450

One way to defer some of this year's income is to sell your taxable bond holdings and purchase US Treasury Bills that mature in the next year.
Last edited by Tyler Aspect on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:19 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:56 am
Would the rental income qualify for a business retirement account like a SEP IRA or a Solo 401k?
Nope, not considered earned income in almost all circumstances.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by DSInvestor » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:22 pm

If your plan is HSA eligible, make 2017 HSA contributions before the tax filing deadline.

If you have compensation, make Traditional IRA contributions. At 65K AGI, you should be eligible for full TIRA deduction even if you were covered by an employer plan.

If you were self employed and have not maxed out self employed retirement plans, consider contribution to Solo 401k or SEP-IRA for 2017.

If you did any Roth conversions in 2017, you can consider recharacterization of some of those conversions to reduce your 2017 AGI. There is still time to recharacterize 2017 conversions.
Last edited by DSInvestor on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by tfb » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 pm

lightning wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am
I don't believe that you can deduct an IRA contribution with no earned income. So excess IRA contribution wont help. You could fill out the tax form incorrectly, I suppose, but no tax software is going to do that.
Just tried this in tax software. You are right. You can contribute excess but you can't deduct excess.
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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Watty » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:27 pm

I am not sure about your 2017 situation but you also really need to look at this for 2018.

I am in a vaguely similar situation where I need to limit my IRA withdrawals to keep my income below the ACA cut off amount. Two things I will do are;

1) I just bought a new car but I got a car loan instead of withdrawing all the money at once from my IRA to pay cash for the car.

2) If necessary I will get a home equity loan to help fund my living expenses until I am on Medicare.

3) If you will need healthcare insurance going into 2019 then also look at buying a bronze plan or a plan outside the exchange if you will not be getting a subsidy then. We cannot get into politics here but some of the last minute changes that were made were not well thought out and resulted in steep discounts for many people, depending on how their states implemented the last minute changes. Search the boards for "silver switcheroo".
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm
1. This does not make sense to me. $3,053/month for ACA medical insurance coverage which covers very little seems unreasonable. Please explain.

Medical Bills for 2017: less than $20,000 (if no medical insurance).
The highest out of pocket maximum for an ACA policy is $7,350 so you would be getting some of the costs paid, and there is no charge for a few things like a physical.

If you do have to pay that much it will be painful to say the least but if you have something serious happen, like cancer or a serious car accident, then health insurance could pay out millions in healthcare costs.

It is far from idea but even if you consider your ACA policy to be basically catastrophic coverage it is likely still much better than you could have gotten before the ACA.

Before the ACA I was seriously considering if I would need to move overseas to be able to afford healthcare if I lost my job since I am sure that my wife and I would both not qualify for any health insurance with our less than perfect health history. If you had $20K in healthcare expenses last year then I doubt that you would have been able to get any health insurance before the ACA.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:29 pm

MP123 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm
I believe the catch up age for the extra $1,000 in HSA accounts is 55 not 50.
You are correct. I have edited my previous post to correct my error.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:37 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:04 pm
If your Silver plan requires copays before the deductible is met, it doesn't qualify for an HSA. The only exception would be copays for preventive care.
It is not the required "copays" per se that disqualify the plan. The issue is whether the plan is paying any amount for anything other than preventive care before the HSA-required deductible is met.

On further thought, since the OP said that his plan was Silver, the odds are somewhat unlikely it will qualify. Most (though not all) qualifying plans are Bronze. A few Silver plans do qualify.

In my state, qualifying Bronze and Silver plans are explicitly labeled as such. (In other words, when I go on the exchange site for my state, I can see a list of all the Bronze or Silver plans and some of them are prominently labeled as Qualifying right in the headline titles of the plan descriptions.)

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by munemaker » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:41 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm

When doing our taxes for 2017, we found out our gross income was $65,000 (aprox) about $5,000 over the ACA "subsidy" threshold. Now, according to our tax program. We "owe" the ACA $28,690 :shock:
This means that I would have paid less than $20,000 if I did not have medical insurance.
And, $8,690 above that back to the ACA. (Obamacare).
With any kind of insurance, it is normal to pay more in during any year than you get out. That is the principle of insurance. You are buying security.
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm
1. This does not make sense to me. $3,053/month for ACA medical insurance coverage which covers very little seems unreasonable. Please explain.
I get that the deductibles may be high, but the coverage should be good. The ACA mandates minimum coverage, including most preventive care for no charge. So I am curious why you say the coverage is poor. What are the coverage gaps?

The ACA insurers are only permitted to take these things into account in determining the premium: a) your age, b) whether you smoke, c) where you live, d) how much income you have. In your case, your premium is due to your age, and you obviously live in a high cost of living area.
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm
2. There is a huge difference between the monthly premium "subsidized" and "non" at that $60,000 break point. Please explain.
The subsidies are intended to assist low to moderate income people in paying their premiums. The subsidies are high around $23,000/ year (for a couple) and gradually drop off until 4 X the FPL when they disappear all together. So, at that break point, your income is so high that you are not subsidized.
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm
3. If my gross income was only (claimed) $65,000. How can I owe the ACA that much? How do folks survive on this type of system? Did I figure this wrong?
You figured it correctly. Your income is high enough that you are no longer receiving a subsidy and paying the full cost of the policy. Since you are doing your taxes, look at the bottom line of the first page of the form 1040...AGI - There are a few things that get added back in to the AGI to calculate the modified AGI, but essentially you have to figure out a way to reduce that AGI. If you or your wife have earned income (like from working at a job), you can contribute to a traditional, deductible IRA and reduce your income. You can do this retroactively for your 2017 return until April 15 (tax day) of 2018.
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:42 pm

4. I have one more year to Medicare. I have more than enough assets to self insure. Would it be wise to cancel this insane medical insurance policy for one year? Or just expect to pay about $36,000 for medical insurance for DW and I for the coming year?
No, it is not wise to go without medical insurance. If you had a heart attack, stroke or were in a serious car accident, you could end up paying a lot of money. Keep in mind the insurance companies pay negotiated rates. You would be paying full freight. If you have the kind of assets you say you do, it sounds like you can afford the premium.

Also, gifting away your assets will not help in this case. The subsidy is based on income, not on assets, and you can't reduce your reportable income through gifting. This could have all been avoided with a little advance planning.

Good luck!
Last edited by munemaker on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by MP123 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:52 pm

Sandtrap,

Do you still live in Hawaii part time? I know the FPL is considerably higher there, it looks like you'd qualify for a subsidy up to $74,680 MAGI according to healthcare.gov which might be enough. Not sure if there's an angle you can play there.

If not look into a Bronze HSA plan for next year and make the HSA contribution.

You're basically in the worst case scenario of being right over the ACA cliff, I feel your pain...

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by bottlecap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Be thankful the system that exists now didn’t while you were working. You only have one more year of this. Many of us have 20+ years of it. How I long for the days of 4 short years ago.

I would either go without or buy a short term plan until you’re 65.

Good luck,

JT

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:00 pm

You actually have some wiggle room on the royalties. Royalties from Getty, Inc. for stock photography clearly qualifies for Schedule C or E.

It is often a gray area for many people later in life. To report on Schedule C you must be "actively engaged in business with the intent to make a profit." Most people with a stock portfolio would report on Schedule E to avoid paying SE tax. However, when you are looking at a $27K extra tax bill, some SE tax and compensation eligible for IRA contributions may look good.

If the royalties are substantial enough and the IRA contribution(s) would get the OP under the ACA subsidy cliff. I'm sure the OP and/or spouse still has a camera and still takes pictures. If they would still license one of those pictures to Getty or someone else, a legitimate case could be made that they are "actively engaged in business with the intent to make a profit. They could then report on Schedule C and SE and have compensation available for IRA contribution(s).

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by bhsince87 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm

In the past, have you treated your photography income as "hobby" or "business"?

If you've treated it as a business, you should be able to count royalties as income, and at least contribute tat amount to an IRA for last year. It sounds like you are really close to the line, so any amount could help.

And going forward, you might wish to begin treating photography as a business. There are a bunch of rules which you can find all over the place. The main one being that you intend to make profits from it.

If younce you treat it as a business, you can then deduct many costs. You can also have losses in some years (2 out of 5 is generally accepted as OK). Something like buying a new camera or lens this year and immediately depreciating it could be enough to keep you under the subsidy limit for 2018. Of course, you will then have some pressure to actually turn a profit later, but that could happen when you are covered by Medicare.
BH87

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by bhsince87 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:11 pm

One other thing to add, is get thee to a tax attorney or CPA ASAP!

With his much money potentially on the line, spending a few thousand on a consultation might be worth it. They might be more familiar with workarounds, loopholes, etc., and be more willing to be more creative and aggressive on something like this.
BH87

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Da5id » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:32 pm

OP, have you figured out if your health plan is an HDHP eligible for HSA contributions? I have my doubts given the high premium, but who knows?

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:35 pm

MP123 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:52 pm
Sandtrap,

Do you still live in Hawaii part time? I know the FPL is considerably higher there, it looks like you'd qualify for a subsidy up to $74,680 MAGI according to healthcare.gov which might be enough. Not sure if there's an angle you can play there.

If not look into a Bronze HSA plan for next year and make the HSA contribution.

You're basically in the worst case scenario of being right over the ACA cliff, I feel your pain...
My residence is now in Arizona now as far as tax filing.
After I retired and liquidated most of my R/E, I no longer had Health Insurance as an "employee".
That transition period put me into an income "limbo" for 2016 and 2017.
The substantial "Bogle" portfolio will kick into gear fully in the 2018 and thereafter years. I may be able to squeeze into the "subsidy" ceiling in 2018, not sure. But thereafter, likely not. But, by then, Medicare will kick in for DW and I.
I have one more year to medicare.
This is an awkward transition period.

Thanks for the help.
mahalo
jim :D

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by TwstdSista » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:49 pm

I just wanted to add some anecdotal evidence as to why you should not go without health insurance. We have a HDHP (high deductible health plan) and the husband had to go to the ER (emergency room) in January of this year. Just got our EOB (explanation of benefits) and the hospital billed our insurance $6000 for my husband's three hour ER visit. Our negotiated cost through said insurance? $2500.

Typing out all those acronyms is tiresome....
Last edited by TwstdSista on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Dianne » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:35 pm

..
I may be able to squeeze into the "subsidy" ceiling in 2018, not sure. But thereafter, likely not. But, by then, Medicare will kick in for DW and I.
I have one more year to medicare.
This is an awkward transition period.

Thanks for the help.
mahalo
jim :D
Sounds like 2018 would be a good year to do some deductible maintenance on your rental properties.

Dianne

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Re: Need Help Understanding 2017 ACA Insurance Bill for $28,690 and tax liabilities? Confused? Help?

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:07 pm

So are you saying that if you have big interest and dividends, but no earned income, you are eligible for a big ACA premium subisdy?

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