My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

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Shikoku
Posts: 270
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Location: USA

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:48 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:28 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:04 pm
Again your comment is off the mark. That was not the topic of this discussion. Better not to boost someone's ego without understanding why the original post was made.
Moderators: Feel free to delete my posts and the ensuing dialog.

This is an advice forum. You can't expect every response to be what you want to hear. A stranger on the internet wants to help you, take it or leave it. Many of the posters on this forum that I've learned from the most, not coincidentally the older ones, have encouraged finding peace more than finding perfection, and maybe I subconsciously try to emulate them to a certain extent. There may be technical reasons to check accounts frequently, but there may also be emotional reasons not to. Balance in all things.
When someone finds that his/her life saving has disappeared from an investment account and asked this forum for suggestion without specifying if the person checks the account on a weekly basis or not, a response like the following is uncalled for.
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Finridge
Posts: 503
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Finridge » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 pm

Beehave,
All the shares in my accounts are "admiral" level for a long time. My account statements indicate "Vanguard Voyager Services". However, I have never tried to understand what that mean.
Anyone can have "Admiral Shares" if they meet the minimum for that-typically $10,000+ in the account.

As for your service level, you are "Voyager" until your Vanguard account balances aggregate $500,000 at which point you become "Voyager Select". At $1,000,000 you become "Flagship". At $5,000,000 you become "Flagship Select."

Chuck
Posts: 2057
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Chuck » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:48 pm

I sincerely hope everything works out for you. I wish you nothing but the best.

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oneleaf
Posts: 2349
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by oneleaf » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:43 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:36 pm
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
Your comment is off the mark. Do you have anything better to post in this thread? Do you have any problem if I check my account on a weekly basis or even every five minutes?
I agree, whether someone checks every 5 minutes or every year is beside the point. Vanguard should never be showing zero balances for accounts with balances. The state of Vanguard's IT infrastructure is always worth discussion and critique. And I hope Vanguard reads this thread.

leod
Posts: 596
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by leod » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:23 pm

nveer seen this happen to me yet but i dont check my account often. I usually check when see that RBD or stocks on a free fall thread go up the page

Shikoku
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:01 pm
Location: USA

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:07 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:53 pm
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
Some of us just make sure that "all is well" with all types of accounts, regularly and frequently. IF something were to go wrong, with whatever malware and bad actors out there, we'd want to know asap.

It was sobering when one BH'er posted about what happened to his father's (I think it was father?) money from an account that sure would have seemed secure not all that long ago...
Here is the thread that ResearchMed mentioned: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity Theft viewtopic.php?t=228799
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

ResearchMed
Posts: 7572
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:13 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:07 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:53 pm
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
Some of us just make sure that "all is well" with all types of accounts, regularly and frequently. IF something were to go wrong, with whatever malware and bad actors out there, we'd want to know asap.

It was sobering when one BH'er posted about what happened to his father's (I think it was father?) money from an account that sure would have seemed secure not all that long ago...
Here is the thread that ResearchMed mentioned: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity Theft viewtopic.php?t=228799
Right, thanks.

Now, it does appear that there were things done - or not done - in that situation with brak's father that might well NOT be problems for us.
However, there may be other pitfalls awaiting, or even just an unusually clever and talented scamster who can "do it alone"... there will always be a few who keep finding new ways around whatever safeguards are in place.
And it's one thing if someone steals my coat, or even my car.
But when it is our life savings, our entire financial future... that IS different...

So yes, I check frequently.
But it also had the benefit of helping me get accustomed to market - and our accounts - fluctuations.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

simas
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by simas » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:13 pm

from the IT perspective on similar situations - the site calls various services (APIs) to get and display balances. we (IT) have to routinely perform maintenance (firmware/OS patching primarily, things like failovers, infrastructure migrations, etc) during which APIs are unavailable. So what typically happens is that 'business' (our bosses/partners from outside of technology) select
1 ) the degree of 'down' - sorry we are performing maintenance, account balances are delayed or unavailable, up to turning off the login page with the same 'site under maintenance, please come back later'.
2) how much to invest into the various features, i.e. if API is not available go get last known balance. There is no 'win' here, people would complain either way (cant get to my savings at 2 am in the morning , you suck! you show bad account values, I am taking tons of screenshots and my lawyer is with us on recorded line, you suck!). so it is up to business to pick their poison, how much 'down' you want to be, and what the experience you want to present.
3) not patching is not an option, unless you want to have auditors come in and shut you down, end up on CNN for losses, or both.

So no, you balances do not appear or disappear based on what website shows at this point. For each state, there is a transaction and there always be. There are statements, etc. and yes, whenever maintenance is performed, each business selects how such maintenance is done and seen.

drk
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by drk » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm

simas wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:13 pm
from the IT perspective on similar situations - the site calls various services (APIs) to get and display balances. we (IT) have to routinely perform maintenance (firmware/OS patching primarily, things like failovers, infrastructure migrations, etc) during which APIs are unavailable. So what typically happens is that 'business' (our bosses/partners from outside of technology) select
1 ) the degree of 'down' - sorry we are performing maintenance, account balances are delayed or unavailable, up to turning off the login page with the same 'site under maintenance, please come back later'.
2) how much to invest into the various features, i.e. if API is not available go get last known balance. There is no 'win' here, people would complain either way (cant get to my savings at 2 am in the morning , you suck! you show bad account values, I am taking tons of screenshots and my lawyer is with us on recorded line, you suck!). so it is up to business to pick their poison, how much 'down' you want to be, and what the experience you want to present.
3) not patching is not an option, unless you want to have auditors come in and shut you down, end up on CNN for losses, or both.

So no, you balances do not appear or disappear based on what website shows at this point. For each state, there is a transaction and there always be. There are statements, etc. and yes, whenever maintenance is performed, each business selects how such maintenance is done and seen.
This is an avoidable problem. Your Amazon order history or Gmail archives are never unavailable. In today's world, tolerating poor customer experiences like this is a business decision.

simas
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by simas » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:46 pm

"
This is an avoidable problem. Your Amazon order history or Gmail archives are never unavailable. In today's world, tolerating poor customer experiences like this is a business decision."

Yes, the amount of investments you want to place into that place or ultimately priority of this vs priority of everything else that needs money in any organization. In my experience, we typically taken the trading systems completely down, and each second of the downtime was measured, tested prior, and planned for. the areas that did not had to be down, did not go down, and various site wide alerts/announcements were in place to make sure customers are not lost, along with significant increase in customer service coverage along with scripts for them on what to respond with right if/when contacted. normal operating procedures of any broker dealer I know of right now.

Mudpuppy
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Location: Sunny California

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:46 pm

drk wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm
This is an avoidable problem. Your Amazon order history or Gmail archives are never unavailable. In today's world, tolerating poor customer experiences like this is a business decision.
But I think that was exactly simas' point: issues like this are often due to business decisions rather than IT problems. Amazon and Google have 24/7 service because they have an array of servers and they use rolling maintenance. When server A is down for maintenance, servers B-Z are still running with the data. But what if you only have one server because the business side made the decision that you didn't need more? Or what if the business side told you that you had to maintain everything at once instead of using rolling maintenance between servers in the server farm? And what if the business side doesn't want to pay the front-end developers to put up a customer warning message when the back-end servers are down for maintenance or bogged down in nightly processing?

Maintenance and back-end batch processing are just fundamental facts of running an IT infrastructure. How much that maintenance and/or processing "bleeds through" into the customer space is often a business decision to not spend the resources necessary to "hide" the maintenance from the customers or to inform the customers of the maintenance window.

And my general rule of thumb is if a website is wonky overnight, wait until morning and try again. If it's still weird in the morning (after the start of normal business hours), then call up customer service. But if it's only wonky overnight or on the weekends (e.g. outside of normal business hours), it's probably some sort of maintenance or processing that's bleeding through to customer space. Give it time to finish before panicking.

drk
Posts: 853
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Location: Seattle

Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by drk » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:11 pm

Mudpuppy wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:46 pm
drk wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm
This is an avoidable problem. Your Amazon order history or Gmail archives are never unavailable. In today's world, tolerating poor customer experiences like this is a business decision.
But I think that was exactly simas' point: issues like this are often due to business decisions rather than IT problems. Amazon and Google have 24/7 service because they have an array of servers and they use rolling maintenance. When server A is down for maintenance, servers B-Z are still running with the data. But what if you only have one server because the business side made the decision that you didn't need more? Or what if the business side told you that you had to maintain everything at once instead of using rolling maintenance between servers in the server farm? And what if the business side doesn't want to pay the front-end developers to put up a customer warning message when the back-end servers are down for maintenance or bogged down in nightly processing?

Maintenance and back-end batch processing are just fundamental facts of running an IT infrastructure. How much that maintenance and/or processing "bleeds through" into the customer space is often a business decision to not spend the resources necessary to "hide" the maintenance from the customers or to inform the customers of the maintenance window.

And my general rule of thumb is if a website is wonky overnight, wait until morning and try again. If it's still weird in the morning (after the start of normal business hours), then call up customer service. But if it's only wonky overnight or on the weekends (e.g. outside of normal business hours), it's probably some sort of maintenance or processing that's bleeding through to customer space. Give it time to finish before panicking.
To be frank, you just expanded on my point, although I disagree with your last paragraph: I prefer to work with companies who demonstrate that they value me as a customer or, failing that, offer unbeatable value.

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Cosmo
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Cosmo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:04 pm
Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:36 pm
Your comment is off the mark. Do you have anything better to post in this thread? Do you have any problem if I check my account on a weekly basis or even every five minutes?
Yes, if it causes you stress, you shouldn't do it.
Again your comment is off the mark. That was not the topic of this discussion. Better not to boost someone's ego without understanding why the original post was made. If you cannot objectively add something to the post or topic under discussion, you should better not to comment just simply to boost your ego.
Actually, Chuck it turns out there is a more practical reason to frequently check your Vanguard account. In order to get Vanguard's Fraud Protection, is it up to the account holder to frequently check their account and immediately report fraud so checking your account just once or twice a year could put you at risk. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp

Cosmo

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