My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

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Shikoku
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My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm

I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week. Just logged on, and it is showing I have total 0 balance in my three accounts. There is no list of funds and ETFs that I hold in the account. Very uneasy feeling. It is just after 11:00 PM Eastern time. I know it is too late to call. But still called and received a recorded message: "Welcome to Vanguard. Our office is currently closed. ..." Hope it is not true. It is going to be a long night. Are there anyone experienced or heard anything similar?
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

software
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by software » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm

Did you check the transaction history on the accounts?

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:30 pm

software wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm
Did you check the transaction history on the account?
No new transaction since my last transaction. It is showing I had over $300K as of 2/13/2018 but now balance is $0.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:37 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week. Just logged on, and it is showing I have total 0 balance in my three accounts. There is no list of funds and ETFs that I hold in the account. Very uneasy feeling. It is just after 11:00 PM Eastern time. I know it is too late to call. But still called and received a recorded message: "Welcome to Vanguard. Our office is currently closed. ..." Hope it is not true. It is going to be a long night. Are there anyone experienced or heard anything similar?
We've had that happen.

We have more than one Vanguard account, so it's usually just one of the accounts that "vanish" (the big one, of course! :annoyed ).

But then later.. "it's baaaaack", and we never understand why.
But at least we no longer freak out.

Do your accounts actually show up?
I think in our case, the entire account is just... gone...

Give it some time.
Vanguard does not have great IT, so it can be quite flakey.

RM
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software
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by software » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:41 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:30 pm
software wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm
Did you check the transaction history on the account?
No new transaction since my last transaction. It is showing I had over $300K as of 2/13/2018 but now balance is $0.
Yea this looks like technical difficulties. I’ve never had this happen, and I can see why it would be disconcerting. The fact that there has been no activity on the account would seem to rule out hacking thankfully.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:44 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:37 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week. Just logged on, and it is showing I have total 0 balance in my three accounts. There is no list of funds and ETFs that I hold in the account. Very uneasy feeling. It is just after 11:00 PM Eastern time. I know it is too late to call. But still called and received a recorded message: "Welcome to Vanguard. Our office is currently closed. ..." Hope it is not true. It is going to be a long night. Are there anyone experienced or heard anything similar?
We've had that happen.

We have more than one Vanguard account, so it's usually just one of the accounts that "vanish" (the big one, of course! :annoyed ).

But then later.. "it's baaaaack", and we never understand why.
But at least we no longer freak out.

Do your accounts actually show up?
I think in our case, the entire account is just... gone...

Give it some time.
Vanguard does not have great IT, so it can be quite flakey.

RM
ResearchMed,
Thank you. It lists all the accounts but shows every account's balance as $0. OK, I will give it some time and check again. I actually logged out and logged in but balance is still $0.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Beehave
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Beehave » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 pm

Did your last transaction pass some threshold? For example, did it take you from "investor" level for a fund to the "admiral" level? I think under certain such conditions accounts can disappear and reappear from certain perspectives.

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whodidntante
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by whodidntante » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 pm

They must have been thinking about the interests of the other owners.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by mouses » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 pm

I exchanged one fund for another in my account at Vanguard recently. The proceeds were $X. Overnight Vanguard was reporting I had $2X in my account. It was back to $X by morning. I resisted the brief temptation to transfer it out and take off to some country with no extradition treaty :-)

I know this is nerve wracking, but don't waste the night worrying about it. I think chances are 99% it will be correct by morning.
Last edited by mouses on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oneleaf
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by oneleaf » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 pm

Hah, I just checked my account and I have $0 as well. Relax. This is not the first time this has happened. Just a temporary glitch.

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 pm

Beehave wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 pm
Did your last transaction pass some threshold? For example, did it take you from "investor" level for a fund to the "admiral" level? I think under certain such conditions accounts can disappear and reappear from certain perspectives.
Beehave,
All the shares in my accounts are "admiral" level for a long time. My account statements indicate "Vanguard Voyager Services". However, I have never tried to understand what that mean.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:57 pm

oneleaf wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:55 pm
Hah, I just checked my account and I have $0 as well. Relax. This is not the first time this has happened. Just a temporary glitch.
oneleaf,
Thank you. You saved my day (or night)!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 am

What a coincidence. My balance just increased by > $300k! :twisted:

As others have said, I'm sure it is just a glitch. My bank's website sometimes does similar things around midnight. I have never noticed it with Vanguard, but I seldom log in.

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:05 am

mouses wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 pm
I exchanged one fund for another in my account at Vanguard recently. The proceeds were $X. Overnight Vanguard was reporting I had $2X in my account. It was back to $X by morning. I resisted the brief temptation to transfer it out and take off to some country with no extradition treaty :-)

I know this is nerve wracking, but don't waste the night worrying about it. I think chances are 99% it will be correct by morning.
mouses,
As at least one person has similar situation like mine, I also think it is a glitch but I need this money 100% over the next eight years.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:09 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 am
What a coincidence. My balance just increased by > $300k! :twisted:

As others have said, I'm sure it is just a glitch. My bank's website sometimes does similar things around midnight. I have never noticed it with Vanguard, but I seldom log in.
How Vanguard can do such a thing? :shock: Thanks Doom&Gloom!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

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celia
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by celia » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:12 am

Vanguard does a lot of data processing in the middle of the night. Every account has to be updated for current closing values times number of shares. And with tax season here, I'm sure they are doing more data processing than usual to meet IRS requirements.

I would give it several hours to update. Why not get a good night's sleep in the meantime and check in the morning. The odds are that the night runs are not yet finished.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:16 am

celia wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:12 am
Vanguard does a lot of data processing in the middle of the night. Every account has to be updated for current closing values times number of shares. And with tax season here, I'm sure they are doing more data processing than usual to meet IRS requirements.

I would give it several hours to update. Why not get a good night's sleep in the meantime and check in the morning. The odds are that the night runs are not yet finished.
Thank you, celia. From all the above feedback, I am pretty much convinced that it is a glitch. However, this is the first time I am experiencing something like this. Everything has a first!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:18 am

Shikoku wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:09 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 am
What a coincidence. My balance just increased by > $300k! :twisted:

As others have said, I'm sure it is just a glitch. My bank's website sometimes does similar things around midnight. I have never noticed it with Vanguard, but I seldom log in.
How Vanguard can do such a thing? :shock: Thanks Doom&Gloom!
In case it wasn't clear, I was kidding about VG messing up my balance. I haven't checked, so I don't know what it shows.

But what celia said is almost certainly the explanation.

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:20 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:18 am
Shikoku wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:09 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 am
What a coincidence. My balance just increased by > $300k! :twisted:

As others have said, I'm sure it is just a glitch. My bank's website sometimes does similar things around midnight. I have never noticed it with Vanguard, but I seldom log in.
How Vanguard can do such a thing? :shock: Thanks Doom&Gloom!
In case it wasn't clear, I was kidding about VG messing up my balance. I haven't checked, so I don't know what it shows.

But what celia said is almost certainly the explanation.
I know you were kidding. You also mentioned that it is a glitch. That is why I thanked you!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am

I checked my account. Everything looks fine. Thanks everyone!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

dbr
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by dbr » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:14 am

Shikoku wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:16 am
celia wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:12 am
Vanguard does a lot of data processing in the middle of the night. Every account has to be updated for current closing values times number of shares. And with tax season here, I'm sure they are doing more data processing than usual to meet IRS requirements.

I would give it several hours to update. Why not get a good night's sleep in the meantime and check in the morning. The odds are that the night runs are not yet finished.
Thank you, celia. From all the above feedback, I am pretty much convinced that it is a glitch. However, this is the first time I am experiencing something like this. Everything has a first!
It would help if Vanguard would report that balances are not available at the moment due to processing and to check back later rather than show data that looks real but in fact is garbage. I think lots of other institutions report from time to time on a web site that the data is temporarily not available.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:37 am

dbr wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:14 am
It would help if Vanguard would report that balances are not available at the moment due to processing and to check back later rather than show data that looks real but in fact is garbage. I think lots of other institutions report from time to time on a web site that the data is temporarily not available.
I concur, I also often see partial updates on my 401k where the NAV per share is updated but the account balance is not updated as well. I note of “updates in progress” would be helpful.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by bikechuck » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 am

If this happened to me it would scare the Bejesus out of me and perhaps cause me to move my Vanguard funds to another provider. I admit that might not be rational but I live in fear of my retirement accounts being stolen by bad actors. I want a custodian with excellent IT services and controls.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:55 am

bikechuck wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 am
If this happened to me it would scare the Bejesus out of me and perhaps cause me to move my Vanguard funds to another provider. I admit that might not be rational but I live in fear of my retirement accounts being stolen by bad actors. I want a custodian with excellent IT services and controls.
I think the core issue is that batch processing updates to the Vanguard website do not appear to be fully "transactional" and the users can hit moments of partial updates. Like i mentioned above, the fact that NAV can get updated, but balances are not yet updates is a good example. This 0 balance situation appears to happen similarly. It seems they need to ahve better staging of updates, or "temporarily not available" messages as the nightly runs complete....

My credit union has a similiar issues, but you get one of two notices "down for processing/update" or a 404 error...... I learned years ago to not check balances at 10pm there.

At Vanguard, balances are suspect between about 8pm and 11pm nightly when looking at my full account because my 401(K) balances are really significantly delayed. The occasional 529 change can be wonky too.... Lastly, the stages a mutual fund exchange goes through can often show the 2X balance mentioned earlier.... I guess as a passive investor, i should just look "the next day"......

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One Ping
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by One Ping » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:36 am

I had a similar experience yesterday afternoon (west coast time, after market closing) only with the 'cost basis' section of the website. It just sat there spinning 'forever' like it was looking for the data but not able to find it. I figured it was in the middle of an update ... but it would have been nice to have a notice that says that pop up.

Everything normal this morning.
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."

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oneleaf
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by oneleaf » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:04 pm

bikechuck wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 am
If this happened to me it would scare the Bejesus out of me and perhaps cause me to move my Vanguard funds to another provider. I admit that might not be rational but I live in fear of my retirement accounts being stolen by bad actors. I want a custodian with excellent IT services and controls.
I admit to having gotten used to these quirks. We shouldn't have to live with seeing $0 balances. This has happened to me at least a half dozen times in the past 10 years. And it was always late at night.

With the amount of assets that Vanguard has, I would love to see them make a state-of-the-art web experience. I know Bogleheads tend to feel that kind of stuff might be flashy and unnecessary for longterm investing, but a good web experience gives more confidence to me that their backend is well developed, secure, and not buggy.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:11 pm

bikechuck wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 am
If this happened to me it would scare the Bejesus out of me and perhaps cause me to move my Vanguard funds to another provider. I admit that might not be rational but I live in fear of my retirement accounts being stolen by bad actors. I want a custodian with excellent IT services and controls.
Yes, I'm happy to remain at Fidelity for now as the costs are similar or only a little higher and the IT and support seems better, if only based on some of these VG threads that I've read.

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm

It's not just late at night.

DH's Vanguard screen should show several accounts... including his Vanguard IRA and his Vanguard 403b (which has several parts).

Throughout the day, including market hours, the 403b will disappear entirely.
It's not just zero balances.
Suddenly, there just isn't any 403b account, but the other Vanguard information is there, as are details about the linked other accounts.
And the combined "total balance" of all holdings is just about cut in half.

Then, a short time later, or a longer time... the 403b is baaaaack.
The first time was truly alarming!

Now? Well, IF we wanted to make a transaction at one of those times, we couldn't.
And those times tend to be mid-afternoon. (They aren't that common, but when they *do* occur, it's often mid/late afternoon at the end of the market day.)

Annoying, yes.

RM
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retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:12 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm
It's not just late at night.

DH's Vanguard screen should show several accounts... including his Vanguard IRA and his Vanguard 403b (which has several parts).

Throughout the day, including market hours, the 403b will disappear entirely.
It's not just zero balances.
Suddenly, there just isn't any 403b account, but the other Vanguard information is there, as are details about the linked other accounts.
And the combined "total balance" of all holdings is just about cut in half.

Then, a short time later, or a longer time... the 403b is baaaaack.
The first time was truly alarming!

Now? Well, IF we wanted to make a transaction at one of those times, we couldn't.
And those times tend to be mid-afternoon. (They aren't that common, but when they *do* occur, it's often mid/late afternoon at the end of the market day.)

Annoying, yes.

RM
Interesting, this is showing some interesting situations.

My 401(k) has its own site essentially, and in fact you can log in to the retirement plans site separately from the personal/investor site. Next time that happens, you should try to log in directly to the retirement site and see if it is available there. My guess is the linkage between the personal and retirement systems are not stable... I think the need to keep them separate is related to the custodian rules for 401(k) and 403(b) type accounts... Now why Vanguard can't keep the link stable is a different conversation.

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:12 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm
It's not just late at night.

DH's Vanguard screen should show several accounts... including his Vanguard IRA and his Vanguard 403b (which has several parts).

Throughout the day, including market hours, the 403b will disappear entirely.
It's not just zero balances.
Suddenly, there just isn't any 403b account, but the other Vanguard information is there, as are details about the linked other accounts.
And the combined "total balance" of all holdings is just about cut in half.

Then, a short time later, or a longer time... the 403b is baaaaack.
The first time was truly alarming!

Now? Well, IF we wanted to make a transaction at one of those times, we couldn't.
And those times tend to be mid-afternoon. (They aren't that common, but when they *do* occur, it's often mid/late afternoon at the end of the market day.)

Annoying, yes.

RM
Interesting, this is showing some interesting situations.

My 401(k) has its own site essentially, and in fact you can log in to the retirement plans site separately from the personal/investor site. Next time that happens, you should try to log in directly to the retirement site and see if it is available there. My guess is the linkage between the personal and retirement systems are not stable... I think the need to keep them separate is related to the custodian rules for 401(k) and 403(b) type accounts... Now why Vanguard can't keep the link stable is a different conversation.
It's a single login.
One UserID, and one PW, for "all accounts".
I've never before heard that there even might be ways to login only to one account or one type of account for one person.
We never had any choice about how to set it up.

In case it matters, the 403b was set up first.
Within the 403b, there is a separate section for Employer contributions and Employee contributions. Those two pots cannot be mixed, and the Employee contributions can be removed at any time. The Employer contributions - and *all* returns - cannot be touched while he is a full time employee, regardless of age.

Later, he added an IRA.

RM
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:31 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm

It's a single login.
One UserID, and one PW, for "all accounts".
I've never before heard that there even might be ways to login only to one account or one type of account for one person.
We never had any choice about how to set it up.
Try https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... blicHome#/ using your "one" userid and password and see if you can go straight to the 403b... Not sure if it works, it does for my 401(k).

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:36 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm

It's a single login.
One UserID, and one PW, for "all accounts".
I've never before heard that there even might be ways to login only to one account or one type of account for one person.
We never had any choice about how to set it up.
Try https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... blicHome#/ using your "one" userid and password and see if you can go straight to the 403b... Not sure if it works, it does for my 401(k).
That link includes the letters "VGApp" - is it some "App"?
Nothing opens on the screen when I click the link, but there doesn't seem to be an error.

We usually go to Vanguard. com, and end up with
https://personal.vanguard.come/my-accounts[etc.] by entering the UserID and Password on the main Vanguard page.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:39 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:36 pm
retiringwhen wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm

It's a single login.
One UserID, and one PW, for "all accounts".
I've never before heard that there even might be ways to login only to one account or one type of account for one person.
We never had any choice about how to set it up.
Try https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... blicHome#/ using your "one" userid and password and see if you can go straight to the 403b... Not sure if it works, it does for my 401(k).
That link includes the letters "VGApp" - is it some "App"?
Nothing opens on the screen when I click the link, but there doesn't seem to be an error.

We usually go to Vanguard. com, and end up with
https://personal.vanguard.come/my-accounts[etc.] by entering the UserID and Password on the main Vanguard page.

RM
It is just a website, not an "app" to download... try https://retirementplans.vanguard.com Both work for me... Interesting, what browser do you use? I found an issue recently with Chrome... Try Edge or if you are an Apple-head Safari.

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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Steelersfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:55 pm

dbr wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:14 am


It would help if Vanguard would report that balances are not available at the moment due to processing and to check back later rather than show data that looks real but in fact is garbage. I think lots of other institutions report from time to time on a web site that the data is temporarily not available.
That's a reasonable request, but to do that they'd have to pass through and update every account they're touching to do that, then go back and update them again when the update is completed. That would mean the account shows incorrect information twice as long. Some would think that's worth it, some not since that doubles the number of people likely to be inconvenienced.

Disclosure - old investment/security system guy from the batch processing days.

mortfree
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by mortfree » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:59 pm

maybe Vanguard doesn't expect their followers to be checking their accounts; especially Bogleheads.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm

mortfree wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:59 pm
maybe Vanguard doesn't expect their followers to be checking their accounts; especially Bogleheads.
Funny, I was thinking the same, but it is bad customer service. I was a 4-5 times a year peak kind of guy for literally decades until we had a storm of inheritance/college/retirement events all hit at once. I am on the site almost every day these days and that is when you start to see these odd / unbecoming behaviors....

ColoRetiredGirl
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ColoRetiredGirl » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:46 pm

After reading this thread indicating “bad customer service’ and “ old technology”, can anyone tell me if they are more conscern about the safeguard (security measures) of your accounts? If it is a glitch, how do you determine if is Vanguard or a bad actor? I for one would be calling Vanguard and demand they gave me forewarning of maintenance or technical issues. The Op should not have to loose sleep over checking his/her account unless, of course the market is crashing! :annoyed

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Just wanted to say "Thank You" to Beehave, Celia, Doom&Gloom, Mouses, Oneleaf, ResearchMed, and Software. Your prompt response to my post convinced me last night that it was a glitch. I think, I slept well. At 6:00 AM, I wanted to check the account but resisted the temptation. Finally, checked around 9:00 AM, and everything looked fine.

Many of you have suggested that Vanguard should post a message when their system simply display garbage. I concur with that. I never had this kind of issue with TIAA or Fidelity. We hope someone from Vanguard reads this forum.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

JGoneRiding
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by JGoneRiding » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:18 am

You all have made me very glad I use Schwab. 24/7 service! I can (and have) call them at .midnight pst and get a chipper person to solve my problem (usually an account lock out)

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:56 pm
Just wanted to say "Thank You" to Beehave, Celia, Doom&Gloom, Mouses, Oneleaf, ResearchMed, and Software. Your prompt response to my post convinced me last night that it was a glitch. I think, I slept well. At 6:00 AM, I wanted to check the account but resisted the temptation. Finally, checked around 9:00 AM, and everything looked fine.

Many of you have suggested that Vanguard should post a message when their system simply display garbage. I concur with that. I never had this kind of issue with TIAA or Fidelity. We hope someone from Vanguard reads this forum.
An update: The 403b account information just vanished again, almost "on schedule" (2:45pm on a day the market is open and will close at 4pm).

If past patterns hold, it should be back in about 30-45 minutes.
Good thing out transactions aren't (or haven't been yet) ever "urgent", needing to be done *that* day.
Occasionally, the 403b info doesn't show again until after the market closes.

Yup, "that's Vanguard..."
:annoyed

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:07 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 pm


An update: The 403b account information just vanished again, almost "on schedule" (2:45pm on a day the market is open and will close at 4pm).

RM
Did you try the other link? I am curious if you get different results there. good time to test! It would exercise my theory it is a backend integration issue between the two systems.

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:07 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 pm


An update: The 403b account information just vanished again, almost "on schedule" (2:45pm on a day the market is open and will close at 4pm).

RM
Did you try the other link? I am curious if you get different results there. good time to test! It would exercise my theory it is a backend integration issue between the two systems.
Both links lead to the same "blank page", but without any error message, something I don't remember seeing prior to this.
But you will probably be interested to know that yes, I've been using Chrome.

I'll be checking on DH's laptop, as well as other browsers on mine.
He's got Apple products, whereas I'm the nerdy "PC guy [gal]" from those old ads :wink:

Thanks.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

retiringwhen
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:20 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 pm

Both links lead to the same "blank page", but without any error message, something I don't remember seeing prior to this.
But you will probably be interested to know that yes, I've been using Chrome.

I'll be checking on DH's laptop, as well as other browsers on mine.
He's got Apple products, whereas I'm the nerdy "PC guy [gal]" from those old ads :wink:

Thanks.

RM
Looks to me like the 403b site is down... I would put in a complaint directly to customer support on that with dates and times.... Interesting to see their response. They may have an explanation, at least your shock and concern will register on some metric... I know it works on my team when i tell customers call our help desk when bizarre stuff like this happens. Eventually patterns are seen or enough calls will force customer support to press to have an answer.... Full Disclosure: I do NOT work in the finance industry, I deal with the Gov't and I can tell that the worst customer service oriented finance company is better than the average Gov't software program office.....

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:21 pm

3:20 pm. and the full accounts are showing again.
When this happens, this is rather typical of the timing, although it does also happen at other times.

We've just adjusted...

Once DH retires, most off this money, and perhaps all, is likely to get moved.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

Chuck
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Chuck » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:36 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
Your comment is off the mark. Do you have anything better to post in this thread? Do you have any problem if I check my account on a weekly basis or even every five minutes?
Last edited by Shikoku on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

ResearchMed
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:25 pm
I did not check my Vanguard account for over a week.
Wow, I don't know if I check every 8-10 months. I only log in when I want to transact something. Last summer I contributed to an IRA. And last week I logged in to get my 1099's. What is there to do on a weekly basis?
Some of us just make sure that "all is well" with all types of accounts, regularly and frequently.
IF something were to go wrong, with whatever malware and bad actors out there, we'd want to know asap.

It was sobering when one BH'er posted about what happened to his father's (I think it was father?) money from an account that sure would have seemed secure not all that long ago...

The "frequent watching" actually started way back, before so many security concerns, so that I could get a "feel" for "how our accounts react to various market events/conditions".
That had made it SO much easier to avoid worrying from short term changes, and also to sense that "when this [some dramatic event, financial/political/whatever] has happened in the past, <x - or nothing> tended to be what happened to our accounts".
That understanding and experience has helped dramatically with avoiding serious worries.

I know the common recommendation is "not to peek" frequently, but it's really helped with a "feel" for our accounts.
And not infrequently, "peeking" includes looking at a variety of market indicators elsewhere, too.
(Well, I'm a numbers person, and almost my entire life has been research and studying numbers/patterns. Looking at numbers is actually fun, truly. And in this context, as some of the numbers started getting larger and larger... even more fun! :happy )

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

Chuck
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Chuck » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:36 pm
Your comment is off the mark. Do you have anything better to post in this thread? Do you have any problem if I check my account on a weekly basis or even every five minutes?
Yes, if it causes you stress, you shouldn't do it.

Shikoku
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Shikoku » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:04 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:36 pm
Your comment is off the mark. Do you have anything better to post in this thread? Do you have any problem if I check my account on a weekly basis or even every five minutes?
Yes, if it causes you stress, you shouldn't do it.
Again your comment is off the mark. That was not the topic of this discussion. Better not to boost someone's ego without understanding why the original post was made. If you cannot objectively add something to the post or topic under discussion, you should better not to comment just simply to boost your ego.
Last edited by Shikoku on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Chuck
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Re: My Over $300K Vanguard Balance Disappeared?

Post by Chuck » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:28 pm

Shikoku wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:04 pm
Again your comment is off the mark. That was not the topic of this discussion. Better not to boost someone's ego without understanding why the original post was made.
Moderators: Feel free to delete my posts and the ensuing dialog.

This is an advice forum. You can't expect every response to be what you want to hear. A stranger on the internet wants to help you, take it or leave it. Many of the posters on this forum that I've learned from the most, not coincidentally the older ones, have encouraged finding peace more than finding perfection, and maybe I subconsciously try to emulate them to a certain extent. There may be technical reasons to check accounts frequently, but there may also be emotional reasons not to. Balance in all things.

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