free dinner investing seminar

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:19 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:34 pm
cherijoh wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:21 pm


If your friend decides to go, I suggest setting up a throwaway email account and making up a false phone number when he fills out the participant registration form. He will be contacted to set up an appointment if they don't get him to do so at the seminar.
When you say "He will be contacted to set up an appointment if they don't get him to do so at the seminar" do you speak with experience or are you simply speculating?

I ask because, as I posted earlier in this thread, I've attended a half dozen dinner presentations, I've always declined their offer of an appointment, and have never received an unsolicited followup call or email.

In case you are wondering, in all cases they had my correct email address and phone number.
Same here. For some reason, some people just won't accept a nice, free steak. :confused
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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:23 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:05 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:11 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:47 pm
I just skimmed the thread but one thing to watch out for is that one of the early signs of dementia can be making poor financial choices.

This can happen before long before your family sees and can try to intervene.

You could very well go to these free dinners for ten or more years and easily say no, until someday you don't say no.

Even if the odds are one in a thousand that you will be suckered in when they catch you as you are starting to decline those are still bad odds when you are comparing a free steak to the value of your portfolio.
I think there are some valid concerns here. Perhaps a side benefit of attending these while the brain is still sharp, and a person is willing and able to learn from this forum, is that I can fully educate myself (and those around me) on the flaws in the products being offered. If I reach 75 and have spent 20 years consuming free steak and learning about all the "angles" out there, maybe I will be less likely to be the victim of senility coupled with a smooth pitch. Hard to say. There is a broader concern about protecting one's self and assets from shady characters as we get older. I would like to think that I will rely heavily on family involvement to watchover my decline. Of course, the opportunities in this regard can vary considerably depending on family situations.
Even in this group there are people who are trying to beat the system for small advantages, or who focus on less important procedural things rather than more important substantive things. They could be vulnerable to the free dinner seminars.
All true, but irrelevant to the rest of the people. The vulnerable should definitely run away, and based upon responses in this thread the irrational/emotional types are probably (hopefully) doing just that. :D
If you go to the free dinner and you're the one who buys the annuity, the living trust, the timeshare, or the bridge, not only did you pay for your free dinner, but you paid for the free dinners for everyone else in the room.
Which means only that you want to be the ones receiving a free meal that somebody else is paying for. Nothing more..... 8-)
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ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:05 am

We need a trip report on the Valentines Day investing seminar experience that someone in the thread was planning for.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Artful Dodger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:54 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:49 am
SQRT wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:53 am
afan wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:30 am
SQRT wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:51 am
Who would be that desperate for a dinner?
People who cannot afford to buy whatever the dinner sponsor is selling.
That would be a lot of people I think. In their case a free meal might be worth a lot? I guess the trick is to get invited despite not having any money. If you got good at this it might be kind of a part time job? Maybe the sponsors get smart though, and put you on a “no eat” list?
I attend those dinners held by my brokerage, TD Ameritrade, in my city when I can and no, I'm not desperate for dinners. They can be good learning opportunities. Attended one in January and learned a lot about the new tax laws.

TravelforFun
We get invited to dinners and events by Fidelity, where we have our money. But, I look at those as different. They are usually geared more toward education on some topic, as you said tax law update, or a market update, info on wills / estate planning. These card in the mail invites to dinner / investing seminars are solely to sell you something.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm

So Fidelity is inviting you to dinner to sell you more services.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Scrapr » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:20 pm

ImUrHuckleberry wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:05 am
We need a trip report on the Valentines Day investing seminar experience that someone in the thread was planning for.
LOL. It was interesting. Mostly to watch how the thing was set up and the sales tactics. Maybe this should be posted as a Trip Report???? But first to the good stuff. My steak was very good, and Mrs Scraprs salmon was good. But Mrs Scrapr wished she had ordered the Vegetarian offering as that was better than the salmon. Big downgrade for no drinks offered. Water only. I went out to the bar for a couple glasses red wine

We go in to the restaraunt. It is the nicer hotel (for our town). Reviews of the place are very polarizing but mostly downgraded for the service. We pick up a packet at the check in and seat ourselves. Mrs Scrapr counted 26 people there. Looked like 2 licensed insurance agents plus one of the presenters young (really young) kid. Sit down and we eat a small salad.

Then the first guy gets up and talks about ground rules. Have fun! (LOL) No questions during the presentation (!!!) I think this was repeated a couple times. Main presenter gets up and talks about his bona fides. He was in management for Mutual of Omaha. then he decided for last 10 years of his career to strike out on his own. I had thought this was an Estates & Trusts dinner. Nope. Fixed Index Annuities.

My theme for the dinner was FUD. Fear Uncertainty & Doubt. Speaker talked about Bear markets and they take on average 6 years to get back to even. Warren Buffets first rule..don't lose money was a big point. He cherry picked the last 18 years and 2 Bear markets losing 40%. This was such a theme (40%) that I started keeping a scorecard on how many times he referred to this. I may have missed a few at the start but I got up to 10 times by the end.

He talked about fees in retirement plans. Starting of course at 2% (!!!) and at the end resolving that 1% might be OK. These were the Advisor fees and no mention of the fund fees. Briefly talked about Variable Annuities but dismissed quickly as having stock market risk. Then the presentation...What if you could have stock market index that goes up but you can not lose anything when the market goes down. If this product was availible wouldn't you want to know about it?

2 catches to this product. 6-10 year surrender period & caps on your growth. He presents 3 choices. Classic Good/Better/Best.

Good 6 years 3-6% rate of return 0 fees 0 bonus and max 10% withdrawals/year
Better 10 years 5% RoR 0 fees 3% bonus & 10% withdrawal/yr
Best 10 years 4-7% RoR 0 fees 15% bonus (and something about a 50% rate bump) and 10% withdrawal

Which annuity do you like? LOL....none was not offered

A little bit about what will your broker say? Can I move my IRA/401k over without paying taxes? I'm paid my the insurance company. I did not know what the deal was here until I found a Kitces article talking about the hit to the RoR.

Then a wrap up and a contact sheet. Big boxes on the form about moving forward. However there was not a box for Never Contact me Again. LOL Mrs scrapr filled it out but omitted any contact info. Then we ate. One guy at our table bit on the pitch. I don't know how many others did. Maybe 4-6?

Mrs Scrapr & I retired to another establishment for a round of drinks. All in all not terribly romantic. I will not attend this hucksters seminar again but reserve the right to go to another free dinner. TNSTAAFL

The End

Gotta go. Mrs Scrapr wants lunch....at Costco!
Last edited by Scrapr on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Artful Dodger
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Artful Dodger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:23 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 pm
So Fidelity is inviting you to dinner to sell you more services.
If they are, they're not doing a very good job at it. :)

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:55 pm

Thanks for the update Scrapr!!

I just got back from one as well. Again, starting with the most important. We both had steak and shrimp and it was delicious. Choice of beverage upon seating. Dessert consisted of a nice Brownie ala mode. I'm not really a dessert person, but ate about half anyway.

This pitch was "retirement planning" (really just financial planning). The presenters advertised themselves as fiduciaries and appeared to sell both insurance products and financial management. The didn't indicate specific fees, but I'm guessing that it would be a typical x% of AUM and their commissions on any insurance products. They clearly weren't hawking any specific product, but mentioned the entire landscape (including proprietary alternatives similar to what has been discussed in the recent Larry threads). In fairness to the presenters, they didn't say much that didn't sit okay with me. They were downplaying bonds, but not severely (more likely in interest of selling alternatives). They touched a lot of bases. Long term care expenses. What happens when first spouse dies. Social Security. Veterans benefits. Importance of estate planning and beneficiary designations. They weren't selling estate plans, but did suggest that people needed to think about this and find a good lawyer to work with. Overall, a reasonable financial planning 101 intro. Unlike other such sessions, I think there is a reasonable chance that some in the room would benefit from what they were selling. My wife and I have no need of such help, so simply thanked them after enjoying our dinner. As others have mentioned, the follow up form did not include a "not interested" box, but they provided verbal guidance to just write "I'm good" on the form if we had no interest in further engagements. Overall, a pleasant meal. We shared a table with an older gentleman who was attending by himself. Very nice guy. We talked about our kids, pets, etc. 8-)
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by mickeyd » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:06 pm

My wife and I have no need of such help, so simply thanked them after enjoying our dinner. As others have mentioned, the follow up form did not include a "not interested" box, but they provided verbal guidance to just write "I'm good" on the form if we had no interest in further engagements.
These "free meal sessions" are nothing more than a FP's marketing effort to round up as many newbies as possible. "If you like me now, you'll love me later on."

Instead of cold calling a dead list of names, they can call you and at least start off with a pleasant "hello."
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by munemaker » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 pm

I find it quite remarkable that there are 5 pages of discussion on free meals, while on a different thread, many Bogleheads state thousands of dollars of new tax cuts are meaningless in their lives.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:27 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:55 pm
...
This pitch was "retirement planning" (really just financial planning). ... The didn't indicate specific fees, but I'm guessing that it would be a typical x% of AUM and their commissions on any insurance products. ...
I wouldn't expect them to announce their fees and costs without being asked. Didn't anyone ask them for their fees and other costs?
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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:18 pm

Fallible wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:27 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:55 pm
...
This pitch was "retirement planning" (really just financial planning). ... The didn't indicate specific fees, but I'm guessing that it would be a typical x% of AUM and their commissions on any insurance products. ...
I wouldn't expect them to announce their fees and costs without being asked. Didn't anyone ask them for their fees and other costs?
Nobody asked. One of the guys stopped by our table after we had finished eating and were waiting for dessert. I could have asked him, but had no interest. He was there and gone in 5 seconds.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:20 pm

munemaker wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 pm
I find it quite remarkable that there are 5 pages of discussion on free meals, while on a different thread, many Bogleheads state thousands of dollars of new tax cuts are meaningless in their lives.
I enjoy my tax cuts even more than my free meals!! :sharebeer

(but I still really enjoy the instant gratification of a nice Filet Mignon)
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:10 pm

I can't believe how uptight you folks are. Do you think that you will be locked in a room and held hostage until you agree to meet with the salesperson? I have been receiving these invites every few months after I turned 60. I get them from attorneys, annuity agents, funeral homes. My wife and I go to all of them, the food is great and we've never been pressured to do anything. In a few weeks we're going to Ruth's Chris again and the invite said I can bring 3 guests. So I listen to their 45 minute spiel and then we eat a $50-75 meal. So the wife and both adult daughters are going. Why not? Lighten up people and go have a nice dinner next time you're invited.
Last edited by FBN2014 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by 986racer » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 pm

I'm just bummed that I don't get invited to these things. I'm hoping it is only an age thing and I can be looking forward to free steak dinners in a few years.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by itstoomuch » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:10 pm
I can't believe how uptight you folks are. Do you think that you will be locked in a room and held hostage until you agree to meet with the salesperson? I have been receiving these invites every few months after I turned 60. I get them from attorneys, annuity agents, funeral homes. My wife and I go to all of them, the food is great and we've never been pressured to do anything. In a few weeks we're going to Ruth's Chris again and the invite said I can bring 3 guests. So I listen to their 45 minute spiel and then we eat a $50-75 meal. So the wife and both adult daughters are going. Why not? Lighten up people and go have a nice dinner next time you're invited.
so where do you live? Maybe you can take me as a guest :mrgreen: :greedy
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:56 pm

:D You need to move to an area where there are lots of hungry seniors who like low taxes - Florida, Arizona, NC, SC.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by itstoomuch » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:01 am

^ :annoyed
Moving to a place with a lot of high paid techies who think they know everything. :oops
All of our current neighbors are in their 60-70, as we are. The neighborhood is again changing to a younger generation. :o
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:30 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:10 pm
I can't believe how uptight you folks are. Do you think that you will be locked in a room and held hostage until you agree to meet with the salesperson?...
The concern is for folks who go into these seminars vulnerable to sales pitches because they are poorly informed about investing and investing advice and unlikely to ask enough questions or the right questions. They are the main targets of these seminars and why FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) has posted "Investor Alerts" on their website such as this one:
We are issuing this Alert because, in many cases, free-meal investment seminars are not solely about education. Their ultimate goals are to recruit new clients and sell products—and while some pitches can be easy to swallow, the consequences can be hard to bear.
http://www.finra.org/investors/alerts/f ... t-seminars
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by bsteiner » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:38 pm

I just got an invitation to a free dinner seminar for a dentist. From the mailing he’s an implant dentist and also does crowns and orthodontist work. Except for what he does, the mailing looked much like the ones I get from annuity salespersons and occasionally from living trust salespersons.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by itstoomuch » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:51 pm

^Dentist, serving popcorn :oops:
That is what I brought to my dentist's home when he was showing a private screening of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"
His successor, who bought the practice, saw me when I broke a crown on a widow. and necessitated an implant. :greedy

So far, it seems that I have bought everything but never got a free meal :( .
What am I doing wrong?
Last edited by itstoomuch on Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:52 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:38 pm
I just got an invitation to a free dinner seminar for a dentist. From the mailing he’s an implant dentist and also does crowns and orthodontist work. Except for what he does, the mailing looked much like the ones I get from annuity salespersons and occasionally from living trust salespersons.
Don't forget to let us know how the steak was Bruce!! 8-)
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:06 am

bsteiner wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:38 pm
I just got an invitation to a free dinner seminar for a dentist. From the mailing he’s an implant dentist and also does crowns and orthodontist work.
Yeah? Well watch out for pits in the free food. :happy

Paul
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am

I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. First of all, the brochure says "You must attend this event." :oops:
*Protect your portfolio and avoid giving back all your gains
*Stay in the stock market and reduce your actual risk
*Use your assets to create maximum retirement income
*Understand the hidden fees you are paying on your assets
*Significantly increase your income without paying huge taxes
*Tired of low bank interest rates - learn about conservative growth strategies
*Construct the perfect portfolio for you - not your broker
*If you are confused and worried about your money - 3 steps to reduce your fear
And here's the kicker -
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. No invitation for a guest.

Clever, but it still sounds like an annuity.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:26 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. First of all, the brochure says "You must attend this event." :oops:
*Protect your portfolio and avoid giving back all your gains
*Stay in the stock market and reduce your actual risk
*Use your assets to create maximum retirement income
*Understand the hidden fees you are paying on your assets
*Significantly increase your income without paying huge taxes
*Tired of low bank interest rates - learn about conservative growth strategies
*Construct the perfect portfolio for you - not your broker
*If you are confused and worried about your money - 3 steps to reduce your fear
And here's the kicker -
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. No invitation for a guest.

Clever, but it still sounds like an annuity.

Paul
You had me at Ruth's Chris. Odd that it doesn't include a guest. They almost always want a spouse or life partner as it doubles their chances of engaging a nervous type who buys their pitch and can't wait to hand over their keys.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by MandyT » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:32 pm

I'm not sure if it's because of my age (mid 50's) or because I retired last year, but I've just started receiving low-end versions of this. I got a flyer for a "Lunch and Learn" seminar about incontinence...I just noticed that it's at a Western Sizzlin' 4 hours away! The other flyer is about a medical transport service. At least this "free lunch" is in my town--9 AM at Denny's. I've heard the cliche about senior citizens eating dinner at 4 PM, but lunch at 9 AM is a new one! If I start getting invitations for steak dinners, I might consider it, but maybe long-term renters who live in the sticks don't get invited to investing seminars.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by randomizer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:41 pm

Ugh... I really hate being sold to.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:09 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:26 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. First of all, the brochure says "You must attend this event." :oops:
*Protect your portfolio and avoid giving back all your gains
*Stay in the stock market and reduce your actual risk
*Use your assets to create maximum retirement income
*Understand the hidden fees you are paying on your assets
*Significantly increase your income without paying huge taxes
*Tired of low bank interest rates - learn about conservative growth strategies
*Construct the perfect portfolio for you - not your broker
*If you are confused and worried about your money - 3 steps to reduce your fear
And here's the kicker -
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. No invitation for a guest.

Clever, but it still sounds like an annuity.

Paul
You had me at Ruth's Chris. Odd that it doesn't include a guest. They almost always want a spouse or life partner as it doubles their chances of engaging a nervous type who buys their pitch and can't wait to hand over their keys.
Maybe the new strategy is to get the one who wants to go to show up and let the one who might resist stay at home. Hook one, then it's 3 against one!

Paul
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:06 pm

Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
Thanks, very good point. Now I almost want to go just so I can ask that question. :happy

Paul
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FBN2014 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm

Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
This pitch that they are fiduciaries is a well disguised ruse. They are managing money as fiduciaries but they most likely have a separate company that sells insurance and annuities. Thus they make very large commissions from those sales and are only held to a suitability standard not a fiduciary standard.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:17 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm
Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
This pitch that they are fiduciaries is a well disguised ruse. They are managing money as fiduciaries but they most likely have a separate company that sells insurance and annuities. Thus they make very large commissions from those sales and are only held to a suitability standard not a fiduciary standard.
I think the question then is whether the two guys said on the invitation they or their firms were RIAs or how they worded this. Can pkcrafter help with this?
Last edited by Fallible on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ejvyas
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by ejvyas » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:26 pm

Why I never get such invitations :annoyed

pkcrafter
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:17 pm
FBN2014 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm
Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
This pitch that they are fiduciaries is a well disguised ruse. They are managing money as fiduciaries but they most likely have a separate company that sells insurance and annuities. Thus they make very large commissions from those sales and are only held to a suitability standard not a fiduciary standard.
I think the question then is whether the two guys said on the invitation they or their firms were RIAs or how they worded this. Can pkcrafter help with this?
These are quotes from the brochure--
Jim Files and Dan Ahmad are Founders of Peak Financial. However, at the bottom in small print it says, "Services offered through Fiduciary Solutions, LLC.

CFP
Enrolled Agent - IRS accredited tax advisor

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. Unlike the rules for a stock broker or typical financial advisor, a fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients' best interest.

We do not charge you upfront planning fees, ongoing planning fees, or recurring portfolio transaction costs.
Both have insurance licenses.

Read the review by Kathy S. here. We can relate to Kathy! Long post about 1/4 way down :happy

https://www.yelp.com/biz/peak-financial ... -roseville


Paul
Last edited by pkcrafter on Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Whakamole
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Whakamole » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:17 pm

They must be fiduciaries, they work for Fiduciary Solutions.

It's like a used car salesman named "Honest Bob" - of course he's honest, that's his name! :mrgreen:

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by WiscoTrout » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:51 pm

I'm not adverse to a free steak dinner and I can see through most scams pretty quickly. However, the reason I don't go to these things is that they are always depressing to me. First, there are the others in the audience who through fear, greed (or too much steak!) will sometimes fall for these things, and they tend to be the ones who can least afford to be scammed.

Secondly, I feel for the sales people. I mean how low on the moral food chain do you have to sink to make a living preying on senior citizens? Can't be good for the soul long term doing this.

I can see how folks think these seminars are a good deal, but it certainly wouldn't be my idea of an entertaining evening out.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by bsteiner » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:08 pm
...
Read the review by Kathy S. here. We can relate to Kathy! Long post about 1/4 way down

https://www.yelp.com/biz/peak-financial ... -roseville
Even Kathy S. who seems otherwise knowledgeable bought an investment-type annuity.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by denovo » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:41 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:08 pm
...
Read the review by Kathy S. here. We can relate to Kathy! Long post about 1/4 way down

https://www.yelp.com/biz/peak-financial ... -roseville
Even Kathy S. who seems otherwise knowledgeable bought an investment-type annuity.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:57 pm

WiscoTrout wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:51 pm
I'm not adverse to a free steak dinner and I can see through most scams pretty quickly. However, the reason I don't go to these things is that they are always depressing to me. First, there are the others in the audience who through fear, greed (or too much steak!) will sometimes fall for these things, and they tend to be the ones who can least afford to be scammed. ...

And those you describe as most likely to fall for these pitches are what the seminars are all about, while those who go for a free meal only beef up (pun intended) attendance, thus bolstering confidence in the pitch and making it seem more acceptable to those less informed. The salespeople know all this, of course, and it works, or there wouldn't be so many "free" dinner seminars.
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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:13 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:08 pm
...
Read the review by Kathy S. here. We can relate to Kathy! Long post about 1/4 way down

https://www.yelp.com/biz/peak-financial ... -roseville
Even Kathy S. who seems otherwise knowledgeable bought an investment-type annuity.
Poor Kathy. She should have just enjoyed the free Roth's Chris steak and come here for all investment guidance.

Message to all forum readers: You all know this, right? If for some crazy reason you think you come away with more than a nice meal, you will first come to the forum to share and obtain educated guidance before doing anything stupid? If you can't commit to this, then you don't deserve the free steak and have no business attending. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

jerryk68
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by jerryk68 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:24 pm

I don't recall anyone mentioning the economic rule or law of reciprocity. Tupperware was famous for this. A lot of charities do this now by attaching a nickel or dime to an envelope.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-th ... ty-2795891

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:48 pm

jerryk68 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:24 pm
I don't recall anyone mentioning the economic rule or law of reciprocity. Tupperware was famous for this. A lot of charities do this now by attaching a nickel or dime to an envelope.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-th ... ty-2795891
I guess I've been breaking that law. What's the penalty? When a survey sends me a stamped return envelope, I print out a big label for somebody I really need to send something to and slap it over top the address already on the envelope. Saves me forty plus cents (I forget). I've listened closely to their sales pitch and they give me my nice steak dinner. Nothing left to reciprocate here! 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Scrapr
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Scrapr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:42 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm
Fallible wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
pkcrafter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:21 am
I started this thread with the question for a friend, but now I've received an invitation (Same Ruth's Chris) and I'm temped to go because there is a new twist. ...
It's time to receive a second opinion from a fiduciary.

Jim and Dan provide advice in their capacities as Fiduciaries. A fiduciary has a legal duty to act solely in their clients best interest.

Jim and Dan are registered investment advisors and licensed insurance agents. ...
Paul
Yes, as RIAs, they would be fiduciaries, but not a bad idea for anyone buying their products to ask them to put that in writing, along with a list of fees and other costs. If they refuse...
This pitch that they are fiduciaries is a well disguised ruse. They are managing money as fiduciaries but they most likely have a separate company that sells insurance and annuities. Thus they make very large commissions from those sales and are only held to a suitability standard not a fiduciary standard.
I'm not sure on the loophole. (but I'll express an opinion anyway) I "think" that only retirement accounts are required to be to a fiduciary standard. That was was the Fast eddie guy explained last year w/my MIL. So those accounts in taxable are free game.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Fallible » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:42 pm
...
I'm not sure on the loophole. (but I'll express an opinion anyway) I "think" that only retirement accounts are required to be to a fiduciary standard. That was was the Fast eddie guy explained last year w/my MIL. So those accounts in taxable are free game.
Here's the BH wiki page on "Investment advisers," including mention of fiduciaries:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_adviser
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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:44 pm

This is a silly discussion for Bogleheads. None of us should or need to rely on a fiduciary standard to protect us. The only real protections are knowledge and education. If we're low on either of those, that's what the experts here on the forum are for. :sharebeer
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by whodidntante » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:46 pm

If this were a free lunch, I would know what to do.

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KlingKlang
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by KlingKlang » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:08 am

FIREchief wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:45 pm
KlingKlang wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:52 pm
KlingKlang wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:44 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:39 pm


I got a delicious Filet Mignon steak dinner at a high end steak house ten minutes from my house. I never received any follow up phone calls. Sounds like you just picked the wrong one to attend.
Obviously I never have any luck.

I received three more invitations today but they have all been shredded. Any tips on picking a good one?
Sure. It's all about the food. Just pick one that is being held at a really nice restaurant that doesn't require a long drive. It really doesn't matter what they are selling, although a variety of topics might be nice. It is fun to see how well (or not) they are able to pitch their snake oil. You already know that whatever it is, it is a bad deal financially. Approach it like a murder mystery dinner show, where you have to spot the clues to solve the (attempted) crime. 8-)
OK, you talked me into it. I signed up for a March 1 dinner at one of the best steak places in town. The invitation even has a picture of a steak on the front! I'll report in on how it went.
Welcome to the plate-lickers guild! Please remember to report back to this thread on how good the steak was. Also, if you have time, letting us know what they were selling would be interesting as well. Like yourself, I also ignored those for years, but finally one with a fantastic picture of a steak tipped me over. I'm going to another one at the same place this Thursday.
We showed up at the restaurant last night despite the fact that they were predicting 5 to 10 inches of snow. Picked up the information pack (nothing specific, just "you need us to save your retirement" plugs) and went to the table at a cramped room in the back. They had a sheet with the food choices out - Garden Salad OR Chicken Penne Pasta. We walked out, got some carry out at another place, and got home before the snow.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by spectec » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:45 am

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 am
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm
No.

If necessary followed up with the true statement:

I used to teach objection handling.

By agreeing to a transaction in that context we both know one of us is going to cheat the other. If my conscience didn't nip at my heels I would cheat them. Unfortunately for my diet of free rubber chicken and peas it does, so I don't go.

PJW
Why would it ever be necessary to follow up a "NO?" If that really happened I would think a H$LL NO would be the right response. Some of you just don't understand how to enjoy a free steak.
I think you can be led to say "YES".
The question would be :"Given all this solid information I've presented, can you honestly think of any rational reason not to buy my (annuity, time share, investment plan, etc) ?"

Personally, I'd rather buy my own dinner and enjoy meaningful conversation with my family rather than stroke my ego.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by vested1 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:13 pm

spectec wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:45 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 am
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm
No.

If necessary followed up with the true statement:

I used to teach objection handling.

By agreeing to a transaction in that context we both know one of us is going to cheat the other. If my conscience didn't nip at my heels I would cheat them. Unfortunately for my diet of free rubber chicken and peas it does, so I don't go.

PJW
Why would it ever be necessary to follow up a "NO?" If that really happened I would think a H$LL NO would be the right response. Some of you just don't understand how to enjoy a free steak.
I think you can be led to say "YES".
The question would be :"Given all this solid information I've presented, can you honestly think of any rational reason not to buy my (annuity, time share, investment plan, etc) ?"

Personally, I'd rather buy my own dinner and enjoy meaningful conversation with my family rather than stroke my ego.
I seem to be the only one on this thread who considers these "free" dinners to be an opportunity to throw a lifeline to innocent and unsuspecting seniors. I'm fully capable of buying my own dinner, and don't go to stroke my ego. I barely touch the dinner anyway, but go with an alternative purpose. Statements (not from you), that doing what I do is interfering with the business model of an entrepreneur, don't bother me. In my opinion, an ulterior motive deserves to be exposed if one exists. If none is there I stay silent. If the presenters don't like it I would suggest an attempt at greater honesty or a different line of work.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by blmarsha123 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm

Mulling over another plate licking opportunity. (I mean, Exclusive Dinner Event to learn How to Reduce Your Taxes and Properly Use Your Assets in Retirement). Later this month at one of the local legend steak houses. (The coach maybe still trying to win without the QB?) Main entree choices are 8 oz filet, 12 oz NY strip, roasted chicken and salmon. Also included, house or Caesar, sides and dessert with coffee service. Gosh, no wine?

Anyway, all the comments re. being disingenuous, poor use of time, no free lunch, etc. are giving me pause. Naaaa. Besides, I haven't dined there since 5280 week a couple of years ago.

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