free dinner investing seminar

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pkcrafter
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free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:21 pm

No, I've never been to one, but a friend called and asked about it. I couldn't tell him what they might pitch, but I'd guess annuities or insurance. He asked how much pressure they will put on him. I think he intends to go for the dinner and not sign up.

-added-
Agenda

America's national debt and deficit
Economic Recovery
Risk assessment
Market conditions
This is an educational workshop, no products will be sold. No agents, brokers, advisors permitted. No attendees under 55.

See, all on the up and up. :happy

I told him not to go, but he can't see any problem.

Paul
Last edited by pkcrafter on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Iliketoridemybike
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Iliketoridemybike » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:23 pm

There’s no free dinner.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by miamivice » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:42 pm

I've never gone, but yes I would assume they are financial instruments designed to profit the person paying for the free dinner. I would expect everyone in the room attends for the free dinner with no intentions of purchasing, but enough sign up to justify the free dinner. Your friend very well may be the one that signs up. (They also want your wives to go, if applicable, and sometimes your wife has a bit of

I would never go to one of these. I went to a timeshare for free show tickets in Vegas, and it was always difficult to say no. They offered a timeshare for $100,000 which was easy to say no. Then the price was lowered, and at the very end of the presentation they offered it to me for $10,000. It sure sounded like a heck of a deal and I'm not one to pass up a good deal....we did say no but if we didn't have iron clad resolve we might have signed up.

Sure was a nice timeshare.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 pm

Iliketoridemybike wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:23 pm
There’s no free dinner.
Right! I just could not tell him what to expect.

Paul
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by 123 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:55 pm

In my area I've seen newspaper ads and heard radio adds for living trust seminars as well as cemetery/cremation seminars. Most of these seem to be free lunch arrangements aimed at an older crowd who is available in the middle of the day.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Wildebeest » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:57 pm

I have never been to any free dinner investing seminar. If your friend reports to his experience on Bogleheads , it will be my privilege to donate $100 to Bogleheads.

I am sure exposing the "free dinner investing seminar" for what it is, may help. I rather donate $ 100 for a report on Bogleheads with the details of the the restaurant , what food was served, the company that sponsered the dinner what the product they are selling, than going myself and asking "insightful questions". I will get all reffed up to expose what I consider how the"attendees" are taking advantage of, while the "attendees" consider "Wildebeest" a jerk for asking the tough questions to the presenter, who just paid for dinner.

Hook, line and sinker.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:01 pm

miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:42 pm
I've never gone, but yes I would assume they are financial instruments designed to profit the person paying for the free dinner. I would expect everyone in the room attends for the free dinner with no intentions of purchasing, but enough sign up to justify the free dinner. Your friend very well may be the one that signs up. (They also want your wives to go, if applicable, and sometimes your wife has a bit of

Yep, bring a guest

I would never go to one of these. I went to a timeshare for free show tickets in Vegas, and it was always difficult to say no. They offered a timeshare for $100,000 which was easy to say no. Then the price was lowered, and at the very end of the presentation they offered it to me for $10,000. It sure sounded like a heck of a deal and I'm not one to pass up a good deal....we did say no but if we didn't have iron clad resolve we might have signed up.
Sure was a nice timeshare.

Ah, I see, in the end it's such a good deal, you can't refuse. It's also going to be held at Ruth's Chris steak house, which is what got friend's attention.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Tyler Aspect » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm

You know? I would never attend one of these free dinner things. The pitch is always well delivered, and you cannot count on to always see through the almost invisible deceptions. The risk of thought contamination is too great.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Pajamas » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:27 pm

My guess from the 55+ age limit and the agenda topics is that it will be some kind of variable annuity.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:28 pm

Sorry, but some of your responses are "nuts." Why not enjoy a free, high end steak dinner, at somebody else's expense? I did my first a month or so ago and have another scheduled for next week. The first steak was absolutely delicious, and the next one is at the same place. I just received another invite for the same venue, and am definitely planning to sign up. Why wouldn't a boglehead accept a free steak dinner (retail $100) for themselves and a partner, with the only "cost" being an hour of entertainment from somebody selling a product that is clearly of no interest? At the last one, I really enjoyed cutting through the BS with one simple question of the "expert" presenter. Some of you just don't know how to enjoy "free."

I also milked a LV timeshare presentation a few years ago for free show tickets, $50 cash and a free lunch. The presentation was very entertaining and memorable (but not nearly as much as the excellent show at the MGM Grand). Our personal "advisor" was a very interesting gentleman who had a long LV history to share (being a smart man, he quickly figured out who he was dealing with and didn't waste either of our time trying to sell anything that we clearly weren't buying.)

Fact: If you go to one of these things and buy in, you're buying everybody else's steak dinner.
Second Fact: If you go to one of these things and don't buy anything, you just got a totally free high end steak dinner that somebody else paid for.
Last edited by FIREchief on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:36 pm

Wildebeest wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:57 pm
I have never been to any free dinner investing seminar. If your friend reports to his experience on Bogleheads , it will be my privilege to donate $100 to Bogleheads.

I am sure exposing the "free dinner investing seminar" for what it is, may help. I rather donate $ 100 for a report on Bogleheads with the details of the the restaurant , what food was served, the company that sponsered the dinner what the product they are selling, than going myself and asking "insightful questions". I will get all reffed up to expose what I consider how the"attendees" are taking advantage of, while the "attendees" consider "Wildebeest" a jerk for asking the tough questions to the presenter, who just paid for dinner.

Hook, line and sinker.
Can I claim this on behalf of our fine forum hosts? I will be glad to provide a full report.....In my most recent experience, it was a fixed indexed annuity product, and the presentation comparing returns with the S&P 500 failed to include dividend reinvestments (along with cherry picked years, etc.). The steak was delicious!!

I didn't think so........

btw: a knowledgeable boglehead can ask a probing question or two without getting "reffed up." Just relax and enjoy the steak brother. :sharebeer
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Ron Ronnerson » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:37 pm

My wife and I attended one at a Ruth Chris Steakhouse a few years back. I had no intention of buying what they were selling and didn’t do so. The dinner was delicious and the sales guy wasn’t aggressive at all. If he had been, that would’ve been fine with me since I have no problem saying no. I’ve also gone to a bunch of timeshare presentations and have never bought anything.

If there is even a small chance that your friend could be broken down, they should not attend. Of course, many people think they can’t be broken down but they really can. They shouldn’t be merely confident in their intentions to not sign up. They have to be absolutely, ironclad sure. And they can’t be wrong in their self-assessment. It’s a dangerous game but the steak is nice. Most people can be broken but there are exceptions to every rule.

If the opportunity came my way again, I'd sign up right away as there is nothing to lose. I know (not "think") that I won't sign up for whatever they are selling.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by dwickenh » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm

I went to one of the free dinners with another friend who had already committed some money to the broker. They talked about "guaranteed" returns and had a few current customers sprinkled among the crowd for testimonials. I had no problem eating the filet tips and baked potato. I then declined a portfolio review offered by the broker/salesman. No more pressure after declining the initial offer.


Don't go if you have any problems saying no, because "no" is almost always the right answer at one of these dinners.

Dan
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 pm

Ron Ronnerson wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:37 pm
My wife and I attended one at a Ruth Chris Steakhouse a few years back. I had no intention of buying what they were selling and didn’t do so. The dinner was delicious and the sales guy wasn’t aggressive at all. If he had been, that would’ve been fine with me since I have no problem saying no. I’ve also gone to a bunch of timeshare presentations and have never bought anything.

If there is even a small chance that your friend could be broken down, they should not attend. Of course, many people think they can’t be broken down but they really can. They shouldn’t be merely confident in their intentions to not sign up. They have to be absolutely, ironclad sure. And they can’t be wrong in their self-assessment. It’s a dangerous game but the steak is nice. Most people can be broken but there are exceptions to every rule.

If the opportunity came my way again, I'd sign up right away as there is nothing to lose. I know (not "think") that I won't sign up for whatever they are selling.
Bingo!! A man after my own heart. I'm that person that when somebody "pushes" me, I resist. They push harder, I push back harder. I absolutely WILL NOT BE BROKEN! They ain't gonna win this game! The fact my wife can witness all this is just gravy (I explain facts to her later).

But, to Ron's point, if somebody has a "problem," they should run away from these things.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm

dwickenh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm
Don't go if you have any problems saying no, because "no" is almost always the right answer at one of these dinners.

Dan
Clarification Dan. "No" is always the right answer at one of these. To sign up with anything else in mind is a dangerous, slippery slope. If a person feels any different, they should NOT attend.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by gsmith » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:58 pm

Wildebeest wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:57 pm
I have never been to any free dinner investing seminar. If your friend reports to his experience on Bogleheads , it will be my privilege to donate $100 to Bogleheads.
So i don't know if this counts, but this happened when I was 16.

One day my mom gets a call from a telemarketer whishing her a happy mothers day, and they would like to celebrate her by giving her free popcorn and a chance to win a million dollars... for attending a timeshare presentation.

My father and (mostly) I try to beg her off, offering her anything else, but she was determined that this was what she wanted on her day.

So we drive to the middle of nowhere to a building that's pretending to be a cabin, and our assigned salesman is a former special-ed teacher, who is too kind to survive long in such an industry. He drives us around in his honda beater, while his associates chauffeured their marks in BMWs and Mercedes, wearing watches that could cost as much as their car payments.

- As he drives us to a model home, we can hear the kids screaming next door, as my father notices that the VCR is in a loop (they didn't have cable)
- He explains to us they can't legally sell us a timeshare here, as they're sold out, but they can in Texas and we can convert them into points.
- He explains that like the family memories, the timeshare can be deeded to children who would love the gift. (I, of course, swore there is no way in the world I would want to inherit this, and inquired about the maintenance fees, he said he'd have to get back to me.)
- My mother kept insisting we stay until the end so that we'd get our chance at a million dollars
- At the end, everyone was exhausted, as they dragged us into the closing room, a huge noisy room, with a bell they'd ring whenever someone would sign the mistake of a lifetime.
-The closer offered a timeshare $50,000 which they'd be happy to loan us.
- Having watched my more violent colleagues in HS at the time, I gave them an icy stare and twitch, indicating we did not wish to entertain such a venture.
- They eventually sent us to a trailer where my mom was given a scratch-off ticket for our 4 hours of hell.
- When we got home, we all agreed our existing home had more amenities than the timeshare and found a listing for the exact timeshare on Ebay for $30 with no offers... I declined to buy it.
- We looked up the ticker symbol they proudly displayed everywhere and found they had been delisted years ago and were under several investifations according to their most recent annual report.
- My father wanted to call the former special ed teacher turned timeshare salesman to warn him of the moral hazards of his new occupation, but alas they did not give out business cards

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Ace1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:59 pm

Fire Chief

“At the last one, I really enjoyed cutting through the BS with one simple question of the "expert" presenter. “
Would you please share the question you posed ?

Thanks,
Ace

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:10 pm

Ace1 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:59 pm
Fire Chief

“At the last one, I really enjoyed cutting through the BS with one simple question of the "expert" presenter. “
Would you please share the question you posed ?

Thanks,
Ace
Sure. Trying to be kind to the guy who was on the hook for the steak dinner, I asked if the line on his chart labeled S&P 500 reflected "total return." (i.e. with dividends reinvested). To his credit, he understood what I was really asking and told us that it did not include dividends, but also did not include advisor fees. Fair and honest answer. His chart reflected a 20 year period, so dividends would have inflated the final number by around 40%. Had his chart reflected this, it would have ruined his entire pitch. I wasn't there to rescue others from their folly. In fact, they would probably be better off with his fixed indexed annuities than what they would have come up with on their own. Maybe that's rationalizing.... Regardless, it was a delicious filet mignon for my wife and I and, as a bonus, I was able to explain to her later why his presentation was BS. Educational, entertaining, and fulfilling. A win, win, win. :sharebeer
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Scrapr » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:23 pm

Got a postcard in the mail. Estates & trusts. FREE dinner!!! Normally I would toss without a thought. Then I look at the date. Feb 14th. Hmmm, why is that familiar? Ohhh, Valentines Day!!! Free dinner on the busiest night of the year for couples? This is either going to be great...or a disaster. I'm in!!!

It's going to be a insight into the human condition. Guy is driving 2+ hours to do this. Who schedules a seminar on VD? Better question...Who goes to this on VD? Well, I'm going to find out. It's going to be fascinating. Mrs Scrapr will always remember this Valentines day

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by ClevrChico » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 pm

I had to beg a family member not to attend after they signed up for one of these. To my relief, they listened and didn't go. They were confident it was just a free dinner with no risk.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Afty » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:39 pm

Listening to such a pitch would raise my blood pressure and defeat the whole point of a nice dinner out. I’d rather pay for the meal myself and actually enjoy it, or, more likely, cook a nice steak at home for $15 or so.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by 2comma » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:58 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:23 pm
Got a postcard in the mail. Estates & trusts. FREE dinner!!! Normally I would toss without a thought. Then I look at the date. Feb 14th. Hmmm, why is that familiar? Ohhh, Valentines Day!!! Free dinner on the busiest night of the year for couples? This is either going to be great...or a disaster. I'm in!!!

It's going to be a insight into the human condition. Guy is driving 2+ hours to do this. Who schedules a seminar on VD? Better question...Who goes to this on VD? Well, I'm going to find out. It's going to be fascinating. Mrs Scrapr will always remember this Valentines day
Ah, a hopeless romantic. Enjoy!
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm

No.

If necessary followed up with the true statement:

I used to teach objection handling.

By agreeing to a transaction in that context we both know one of us is going to cheat the other. If my conscience didn't nip at my heels I would cheat them. Unfortunately for my diet of free rubber chicken and peas it does, so I don't go.

PJW

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Finridge » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:05 am

miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:42 pm
I
I would never go to one of these. I went to a timeshare for free show tickets in Vegas, and it was always difficult to say no. They offered a timeshare for $100,000 which was easy to say no. Then the price was lowered, and at the very end of the presentation they offered it to me for $10,000. It sure sounded like a heck of a deal and I'm not one to pass up a good deal....we did say no but if we didn't have iron clad resolve we might have signed up.
They are professionals, expert at what they do, and what they do is sell stuff to people.

The price was $10,000 all along, but they convinced the audience that the value was $100,000 first to make it look like a deal. Anchoring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:15 am

Afty wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:39 pm
Listening to such a pitch would raise my blood pressure and defeat the whole point of a nice dinner out. I’d rather pay for the meal myself and actually enjoy it, or, more likely, cook a nice steak at home for $15 or so.
Sounds like you're focused on the wrong things. Relax and enjoy the great Steaks! If crazy financial pitches raise your blood pressure, then there are likely a number of threads even right here on the forum that you will need to avoid.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 am

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm
No.

If necessary followed up with the true statement:

I used to teach objection handling.

By agreeing to a transaction in that context we both know one of us is going to cheat the other. If my conscience didn't nip at my heels I would cheat them. Unfortunately for my diet of free rubber chicken and peas it does, so I don't go.

PJW
Why would it ever be necessary to follow up a "NO?" If that really happened I would think a H$LL NO would be the right response. Some of you just don't understand how to enjoy a free steak.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:20 am

Scrapr wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:23 pm
Got a postcard in the mail. Estates & trusts. FREE dinner!!! Normally I would toss without a thought. Then I look at the date. Feb 14th. Hmmm, why is that familiar? Ohhh, Valentines Day!!! Free dinner on the busiest night of the year for couples? This is either going to be great...or a disaster. I'm in!!!

It's going to be a insight into the human condition. Guy is driving 2+ hours to do this. Who schedules a seminar on VD? Better question...Who goes to this on VD? Well, I'm going to find out. It's going to be fascinating. Mrs Scrapr will always remember this Valentines day
Sweet!! Please report back with reports on how silly the presentation was and how delicious the meal was! Also, let us know if you were able to teach Mrs Scrapr something as part of this.
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:50 am

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 am
...
Why would it ever be necessary to follow up a "NO?" If that really happened I would think a H$LL NO would be the right response. Some of you just don't understand how to enjoy a free steak.
Because, to echo Finridge's comment above, they carefully engineer a situation in which there is a social obligation, in this case to sit and listen because they fed you. Maybe you and I won't care, but most people will. They know that. For them it's a numbers racket game.

In fact that's most of what retail sales objection handling, not what I used to teach but the principles are nearly the same, is all about. The salesperson offers what's these days called a value proposition, which is to say you pay this and you get that. You say no. The salesperson asks why not. You tell them why.

Gotcha. Now that you told them why not, there's an implied social obligation to buy it if they can show you, in the immediate moment moving so quickly you can't think clearly, that your reason is no reason and in fact it's the opposite of what you said.

If you would buy something, which is the unstated implication, except for this reason, and they run roughshod over you to convince you this reason doesn't apply, you're socially obligated to buy it.

As Finridge wrote that's what they do.

There are good, ethical salespeople who work with customers to help them clarify what they need and provide it at a fair price, preferably while establishing a long-term relationship. We're not talking about them.

We're talking about the ones hawkin' timeshares.

That's why it took miamivice iron clad resolve to say no in response.

PJW
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Boglebud » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:55 am

I get those steak dinner invites regularly in the mail. The pictures of the steaks are enticing indeed, but I’m a Boglehead. True Boglehead resist greedy “advisors” and stay the course!! :D

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by gostars » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:05 am

I want to stay the course by way of a free steak dinner. How does one get an invite to one of these? Nowhere near 55+, so that might be an issue.

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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:07 am

I don't know. My friend is not a knowledgeable investor and could be a prime target. I told him he shouldn't go, but he's still thinking about it. He only sees a nice free dinner. He's planning on inviting his new girl friend. Or would that be lady friend, considering they are both in their 60s?

Paul
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:07 am

Boglebud wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:55 am
I get those steak dinner invites regularly in the mail. The pictures of the steaks are enticing indeed, but I’m a Boglehead. True Boglehead resist greedy “advisors” and stay the course!! :D
Do bogleheads not enjoy a free lunch in these situations? Sure, we all know there isn't such a thing with investing, but that didn't make my last steak taste any worse. Why do you all assume that there has to be a greater than zero percent chance that you will "buy in?"

I'm now looking forward even more to my next event on Feb 15. If this thread hasn't died, I'll report back! :sharebeer
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:08 am

pkcrafter wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:07 am
I don't know. My friend is not a knowledgeable investor and could be a prime target. I told him he shouldn't go, but he's still thinking about it. He only sees a nice free dinner. He's planning on inviting his new girl friend. Or would that be lady friend, considering they are both in their 60s?

Paul
I would strongly encourage him to decline. The only people who benefit from these things is people like me. 8-)
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:10 am

gostars wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:05 am
I want to stay the course by way of a free steak dinner. How does one get an invite to one of these? Nowhere near 55+, so that might be an issue.
Fake ID. :happy
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:11 am

gostars wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:05 am
I want to stay the course by way of a free steak dinner. How does one get an invite to one of these? Nowhere near 55+, so that might be an issue.
Hang in there gostars. As you get older, they will start to show up. Some places may advertise publically or on the net, so you might check those sources. My wife and I seem to be getting the invites at least weekly now.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

TravelGeek
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by TravelGeek » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:37 am

Do they typically offer equally attractive vegetarian options? A “nice steak” won’t get me to a restaurant for a hour long sales pitch. :beer

winger
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by winger » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:05 am

Reminds me of a book I read awhile back, https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Free- ... 1460925912
Great read and the guy went to plenty of "free" meals. Couldn't get his wife to go tho. Like others, I've gone to a few of these where pressure was low, the topics at least mildly interesting and the meals were great. Having said that, I would never go to a timeshsare or free vacation offer. Totally different mindset from the financial guys.

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:08 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:37 am
Do they typically offer equally attractive vegetarian options? A “nice steak” won’t get me to a restaurant for a hour long sales pitch. :beer
Can't really answer the first question, although it is highly likely that they do. Beyond that, if you're looking at it as a sales pitch, you're missing the entertainment aspect. Will you spend an hour here on the forum being educated/amused/irritated/confused/etc? Sure. Then why not spend that same hour at the steak house and come back and share what you heard? It will be entertaining for all of us. :sharebeer
Last edited by FIREchief on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

donfairplay
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by donfairplay » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:21 am

I sighed and felt a twinge of regret.

Not because you or your friend may fall for these sales pitch dinners, but because the steakhouse its held at, Ruth Chris, was a stock I gave more than serious consideration of chucking a substantial amount of my Roth IRA account during the depths of the recession. I watched it tumble, and the stock stayed under $1.00 for what seems like an eternity through early 2009.

Would have been at least a 17-bagger had I bought at a $1 (even more if I bought at the low, I strongly considered it at $1 though), and RUTH now carries a more-than-paid-for dividend on top. I kept thinking I could buy in if it went back down, but that never happened.

mrb55
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by mrb55 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:47 am

FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:04 am
Nah, you missed my whole point. Please continue to "inform readers" as much as you can. Never anything wrong with that. I will confess that I didn't understand that there was a science behind the sales pitch (however, no surprise). We're Bogleheads. I would wager that many of us have risen far above the "sales process." Maybe I'm giving the forum community too much credit? Or maybe you're selling them short? Either way, my comments were intended more as encouragement than guidance. Some people can smell BS from a mile away. Others can't smell it until it's in the rear view mirror (if even then). The former should enjoy free steak. The later should keep learning....
FireChief,

I can't wait to hear your review from the dinner on the 15th. Love the comments. I'm laughing so hard, I'm crying. 😄 Great question to the salesman...uh....advisor about the dividends not being reinvested. You should have given him a typical "costly" (not) expense ratio for the average S&P 500 index fund in front of everyone. Lol! 😄

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FIREchief
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by FIREchief » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:06 am

mrb55 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:47 am
FIREchief wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:04 am
Nah, you missed my whole point. Please continue to "inform readers" as much as you can. Never anything wrong with that. I will confess that I didn't understand that there was a science behind the sales pitch (however, no surprise). We're Bogleheads. I would wager that many of us have risen far above the "sales process." Maybe I'm giving the forum community too much credit? Or maybe you're selling them short? Either way, my comments were intended more as encouragement than guidance. Some people can smell BS from a mile away. Others can't smell it until it's in the rear view mirror (if even then). The former should enjoy free steak. The later should keep learning....
FireChief,

I can't wait to hear your review from the dinner on the 15th. Love the comments. I'm laughing so hard, I'm crying. 😄 Great question to the salesman...uh....advisor about the dividends not being reinvested. You should have given him a typical "costly" (not) expense ratio for the average S&P 500 index fund in front of everyone. Lol! 😄
LOL Thanks1! This guy was a nice gentleman, and smart enough to not take questions during his pitch (so we could all enjoy our dinners sooner, blah, blah, blah.....) He came around to our tables after dinner and asked if we had any questions. I tried to phrase mine in a way that wouldn't suggest to the other nice couple at our table that the pitch was BS. I think I succeeded. I really didn't want to discredit a guy buying me a nice dinner. That said, I really enjoyed the dinner and it was a nice opportunity for my DW to hear a typical sales pitch and for me to explain to her later why it was BS. This is important, actionable information for those of us who understand everything but might pass away and leave a spouse with assets.

I'll certainly weight back in on the 15th. I would like to tell you that I'm looking forward to the entertaining pitch, but it's really that delicious free steak. Why does a fillet mignon taste so much better when it is free??? :confused
Last edited by FIREchief on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

adrift
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by adrift » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:17 am

adrift wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:17 am
lawman3966 wrote:I'd be tempted to go once to see how good the steak was.
We once went to one of these presentations. The venue was a conference hall owned by a local vineyard. I figured I'd at least get a nice glass of wine out of the deal. They really do have nice wine.

This was in either 2006 or 2007. Before I went, I speculated on what they were likely to try to sell me. I guessed it would be Variable Indexed Annuities which were then and now one of the worst investment choices. Even though I knew this was a bad investment vehicle, I did a bit of preparatory research to be able to counter any false claims.

The evening went like this.

- No glass of wine. I think they are missing a trick here. If you want to sell financial snake-oil, plenty of free booze should be a precursor.

- Before the meal, the spiel was that actually you were probably sitting on a gold mine that you didn't recognize. That was the equity in your house. And, if you just took out a sub-prime mortgage you could invest in the golden opportunities that they would present later.

- The presentation was aggressive to the point that there was no opportunity to question what they were trying to sell. No questions or counter views would be entertained.

- Just prior to the break for the meal, they alluded to what you should invest your sub-prime mortgage in. It was, in fact, Variable Indexed Annuities.

- Then, the worst part of the evening, the steak was really crappy. Why would you try to bribe me like this and have crappy food?

- We got up and left before the Variable Indexed Annuities spiel and the promise of dessert afterwards. While we were the first to leave, it was promising that many people followed us out.

It's been several years now, but, there is still one aspect of the presentation I've never quite resolved in my mind. There was an enthusiastic young couple at the closest table that appeared to be having a "come to Jesus" moment. Were they as stupid as they seemed, or were they the contemporary of plant in the old snake-oil movies that can suddenly walk?
It's been a while since I've logged on here. But, back in 2013, one of my few posts was on this exact topic. So, I'm going to quote ... well ... myself.

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dwickenh
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by dwickenh » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:45 am

FIREchief wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm
dwickenh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm
Don't go if you have any problems saying no, because "no" is almost always the right answer at one of these dinners.

Dan
Clarification Dan. "No" is always the right answer at one of these. To sign up with anything else in mind is a dangerous, slippery slope. If a person feels any different, they should NOT attend.
Agree 100% FIREchief :sharebeer
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

vested1
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by vested1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:05 am

I occasionally indulge myself in this hobby, mainly because I feel empathy for the other seniors who attend and sit there with that deer in the headlights look. I am polite, but raise my hand and refute their claims when they are blatantly wrong. At the end of the presentation there are always several couples and singles who come up to thank me for my comments. The presenters, not so much, but in my opinion snake oil salesmen deserve what they get.

The most common characteristic of these charlatans is their ability to instill fear in the audience. It should be illegal to purposefully deceive vulnerable seniors who haven't done their due diligence prior to making life changing decisions. When eating the dinner at one of these functions, regardless of my choice of entree, it always tastes like shark.

I've even paid for a course at our local community college which consisted of several weeks of classes, where the program was supposed to cover SS filing options and investing principles. I researched the presenters before I went. They were both insurance salesmen. One of them was prominent in an organization that claimed the existence of Big Foot (no kidding). They didn't offer dinner, but the free coffee and donuts were delicious. The program, which was not cheap, was riddled with incorrect information on every subject, especially SS. Just like the free dinner scam, these guys were selling annuities and whole life insurance, even though they claimed not to be. Attendees were encouraged to sign up for further "free" discussions after class. It's safe to say that I lost them a few customers. After the classes were over I filed a complaint with the college.

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midareff
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by midareff » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 am

I've been 2 2 of them. They pitch the full spectrum of investment and tax managed investing to estate planning with everything available including wills and trusts. The follow-up is higher pressure and of course, they are closing, or trying to, from the opening. You can expect a follow-up call a day or two after the presentation to "schedule your appointment". A second follow-up a few days later with a stronger drive to which I replied I could not see them generating enough alpha to cover their fund fees and management charges, to which the caller replied, "then why did you come to the presentation?"
To see what you had to put on the table I replied.

Some folks dived right in scheduling their meeting at the dinner. Some folks probably need an advisor, Bogleheads don't.

vested1
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by vested1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:26 am

midareff wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 am
I've been 2 2 of them. They pitch the full spectrum of investment and tax managed investing to estate planning with everything available including wills and trusts. The follow-up is higher pressure and of course, they are closing, or trying to, from the opening. You can expect a follow-up call a day or two after the presentation to "schedule your appointment". A second follow-up a few days later with a stronger drive to which I replied I could not see them generating enough alpha to cover their fund fees and management charges, to which the caller replied, "then why did you come to the presentation?"
To see what you had to put on the table I replied.

Some folks dived right in scheduling their meeting at the dinner. Some folks probably need an advisor, Bogleheads don't.
Funny, I've never got a call back.

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midareff
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by midareff » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:30 am

miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:42 pm

I would never go to one of these. I went to a timeshare for free show tickets in Vegas, and it was always difficult to say no. They offered a timeshare for $100,000 which was easy to say no. Then the price was lowered, and at the very end of the presentation they offered it to me for $10,000. It sure sounded like a heck of a deal and I'm not one to pass up a good deal....we did say no but if we didn't have iron clad resolve we might have signed up.
I always liked the ones that offered a free gift and included a two night stay on the property. My career involved saying "NO" to lots of people who found ridiculous ways to spend valuable tax dollars at a local municipality. I was not particularly liked by many but loved by my entire report to chain, all the way to the municipality's manager. There is very little I can't say "NO" 2 quite easily, timeshare sales people included.

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midareff
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by midareff » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:31 am

vested1 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:26 am
midareff wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 am
I've been 2 2 of them. They pitch the full spectrum of investment and tax managed investing to estate planning with everything available including wills and trusts. The follow-up is higher pressure and of course, they are closing, or trying to, from the opening. You can expect a follow-up call a day or two after the presentation to "schedule your appointment". A second follow-up a few days later with a stronger drive to which I replied I could not see them generating enough alpha to cover their fund fees and management charges, to which the caller replied, "then why did you come to the presentation?"
To see what you had to put on the table I replied.

Some folks dived right in scheduling their meeting at the dinner. Some folks probably need an advisor, Bogleheads don't.
Funny, I've never got a call back.
LOL, did U sign up there?

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flossy21
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by flossy21 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:35 am

If you want some idea of what to expect then check out this link...

http://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/ ... l-seminars

This is a link to the forum for Registered Reps. Basically the Boglehead's nemesis. As you will see, if you attend and don't buy then you are labeled a "plate licker".

Good luck.

Mitchell777
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Re: free dinner investing seminar

Post by Mitchell777 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:40 am

It's different for everyone. If it's a great meal it is worthwhile for many people. Many others will get pleasure from asking hard questions. I respect that. For me, a meal out is not only about the food. If I must listen to someone who may be looking to provide a bad deal to people saving for their future, taking advantage of them, then the meal will not sit well. I'd rather buy my own meal and come and go as I want and listen to what I want.

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