Financial Hole

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
gmc4h232
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:11 am

Re: Financial Hole

Post by gmc4h232 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:54 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:38 pm
BostonButterfly wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:09 pm
soccerrules wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:13 pm
Joe-

As I read through some of these posts, THIS is what came to mind. It sounds like for where you live you are doing your best. Yes, you could reduce a few expenses here and there. It seems like a BIG move to a LCOL area with better employment options might be best. Also if you could live with a relative for 6-12 months to get back on track financially -- that would even be better.
Wishing the best for you and your family.
Joe - you mentioned family "across the country". Where do they live? Is it possible to live with them temporarily?
We're in WA,they're in NJ&PA...about 2900 miles away. The move alone originally cost us around $6000. In the meantime I've been trying funding campaigns and everything else out of desperation to get back out that way. Though I'd settle for just living near my job here for once. But as I mentioned numerous times,the housing/rental market here is exploding now and there's incredible competition for housing...so 'just moving' is not that easy.
If your relatives will let you stay with them and have offered to help you make a fresh start, then start heading east. Sell your broken car for a couple bus tickets and get going. As you stated, you have nothing left to sell, so it certainly shouldnt cost $6k to move. They probably already have furniture, so have yourself a little yard sale to get rid of last remaining bits of furniture that you wont need.

Moving is definitely that easy, you have just put it on a pedestal and are overthinking it. What else has you tied to WA?

JoeSo
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:14 pm
Location: Forks,WA
Contact:

Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 pm

gmc4h232 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:54 pm
JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:38 pm
BostonButterfly wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:09 pm
soccerrules wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:13 pm
Joe-

As I read through some of these posts, THIS is what came to mind. It sounds like for where you live you are doing your best. Yes, you could reduce a few expenses here and there. It seems like a BIG move to a LCOL area with better employment options might be best. Also if you could live with a relative for 6-12 months to get back on track financially -- that would even be better.
Wishing the best for you and your family.
Joe - you mentioned family "across the country". Where do they live? Is it possible to live with them temporarily?
We're in WA,they're in NJ&PA...about 2900 miles away. The move alone originally cost us around $6000. In the meantime I've been trying funding campaigns and everything else out of desperation to get back out that way. Though I'd settle for just living near my job here for once. But as I mentioned numerous times,the housing/rental market here is exploding now and there's incredible competition for housing...so 'just moving' is not that easy.
If your relatives will let you stay with them and have offered to help you make a fresh start, then start heading east. Sell your broken car for a couple bus tickets and get going. As you stated, you have nothing left to sell, so it certainly shouldnt cost $6k to move. They probably already have furniture, so have yourself a little yard sale to get rid of last remaining bits of furniture that you wont need.

Moving is definitely that easy, you have just put it on a pedestal and are overthinking it. What else has you tied to WA?
You sound quite young and/or inexperienced...as someone mentioned a few posts ago I am no longer 20 years old can't just move. My wife and I are 40+ with more than just furniture.

MindBogler
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:05 pm

Re: Financial Hole

Post by MindBogler » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 pm
Yes wife is addicted to cigarettes,so much so that she'd rather smoke than eat...therefore a pack a day x 7 = almost $50 a week! Been with her for years and if you've ever tried to force someone to quit,by logic or otherwise you know the near impossibility.
JoeSo,

A quick skim of your income/expenses and I come up with ~$580/mo that is not accounted for after paying all listed bills. If I subtract the $200/mo cigarette habit, you're down to $380. This is huge expense. Can she be convinced to cut back at all? Even a half a pack a day is still a ton of cigarettes, but that drops your monthly bill in half. Unless there is something else you aren't sharing, there still shouldn't be any payday loans required for you to meet your monthly obligations. You didn't mention any auto insurance, how much is that?

Tips:

1. Cut the cord, drop your cable. Buy a Netflix subscription instead and maybe Hulu. This will save you $50/mo.
2. Get a new cell phone plan. Look at MVNOs or pre-paid and stop paying for your wife's family. Save ~$80/mo.

$380 + 50 + 80 = $510 a month to pay down debt.

How much do you owe on credit cards? And please, do not get anymore Payday loans! Those products are designed to keep you in debt forever. Your debt burden is killing you! Once you get this debt off your back, you'll be in a much better place.

JoeSo
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Location: Forks,WA
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:10 pm

MindBogler wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 pm
JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 pm
Yes wife is addicted to cigarettes,so much so that she'd rather smoke than eat...therefore a pack a day x 7 = almost $50 a week! Been with her for years and if you've ever tried to force someone to quit,by logic or otherwise you know the near impossibility.
JoeSo,

A quick skim of your income/expenses and I come up with ~$580/mo that is not accounted for after paying all listed bills. If I subtract the $200/mo cigarette habit, you're down to $380. This is huge expense. Can she be convinced to cut back at all? Even a half a pack a day is still a ton of cigarettes, but that drops your monthly bill in half. Unless there is something else you aren't sharing, there still shouldn't be any payday loans required for you to meet your monthly obligations. You didn't mention any auto insurance, how much is that?

Tips:

1. Cut the cord, drop your cable. Buy a Netflix subscription instead and maybe Hulu. This will save you $50/mo.
2. Get a new cell phone plan. Look at MVNOs or pre-paid and stop paying for your wife's family. Save ~$80/mo.

$380 + 50 + 80 = $510 a month to pay down debt.

How much do you owe on credit cards?
As I mentioned it was off the top of my head,there are probably some small things I forgot that would add up. One thing I've been working on is my food for work etc. But yes I may have forgotten auto insurance which is about $111/mo,life ins which is about $20,satellite radio for the long ride which is also about $20. Oh car payment which is $100. My credit cards add up to probably around only $3000,since most of them only gave me a limit of around $300 on the average. I am not paying for wife's family,out of her check she pays the rent and cell phones. We've had these phones for years and everyone knows our number etc...

mouses
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Financial Hole

Post by mouses » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:17 pm

Re: (Cell phone-$165(wife pays,3 phones including her son's back east)

Internet/phone/TV- Internet $70,cable $98,no home phone

Credit card debt payment-Approx $210 monthly between 7 cards.

Yes wife is addicted to cigarettes,so much so that she'd rather smoke than eat...therefore a pack a day x 7 = almost $50 a week! )


Let the kid pay for his own phone. Consumer Cellular (which uses AT&T) two phones unlimited talk is $35 bucks plus fees. Get rid of cable. Get rid of satellite radio. Stop the credit card payments. Your wife has to cut back on smoking.

YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PHONE NUMBERS IF YOU CHANGE CARRIERS. This has already been said.

You can free up a lot of extra cash if you do these things, and that will get rid of the $80 a month in late rent fee.

I thought you were desperate, but you can fix this with these economies.

TheDDC
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:11 am

Re: Financial Hole

Post by TheDDC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:21 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:47 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:46 pm
Advising a guy to sell a house and live in a car for a while with a wife and kid? Really? That's not advice... unless the guy was like 20 years old and single.

Joe- Bottom line is give us a good idea of dollar amounts. I think we're spinning our wheels here.

What is your estimated monthly income (including SSDI)?

Your income- $1600 monthly net.

Wife SSDI income-$1200 monthly.

Medical insurance- None.

Mortgage- Rent $880(including the $80 late charges monthly)

Utilities-Electric $170 in winter,$30 water,$15 trash.

Cell phone-$165(wife pays,3 phones including her son's back east)

Internet/phone/TV- Internet $70,cable $98,no home phone.

Groceries- Avg $80/wk.

Medical-None. I owe $800 on a hospital bill which I've been trying without success to squeeze into budget.

Auto fuel-$75 weekly.

Credit card debt payment-Approx $210 monthly between 7 cards.

Pay day loan debt payment- Pay as I go...if I borrow $200 I pay it back next payday.

Anything else-Current traffic tickets totalling $250(wrong place at wrong time snagged by johnny on the spot thirsty cops for going a bit over the limit...bound to happen driving 140 round trip.)

The more info the more helpful info we can give you other than living out of a car, really.

-TheDDC
Hi Joe,

Just a few things that could be challenging at first, but I think you could start a "snowball" effect to help you get out of the current debt service problems affecting your cashflow. If you aren't declaring bankruptcy, this would be a good way to get out of your current situation.

First, I get around $740 left over after I tally everything up. Anything else you left out (besides cigarettes)? Here is where I would start...

1. Create a small cash buffer and throw anything left into it. That will help bring you to current levels to pay your rent on time and avoid the late fee. Getting to that point knocks off $80 monthly which is about 3% of your monthly income right there. Start a savings account with whatever you have left over right now.

2. Consider dumping Cable TV. Since you mentioned you are doing satellite, it seems like your cable and Internet may not be bundled so you shouldn't take a hit for unbundling TV and Internet service. That knocks off $98.

3. Cell phone - $165 for three phones is a bit pricey. My T-Mobile ONE plan costs $120 for three lines (including the $10/line kickback discount if we don't go over 2GB). You may be able to take your phones with you as well. That also includes the ONE Plus upgrade for my line (addl $10), so that could be $110. That knocks off about $55.

4. Your hospital debt is not large. Have you called the hospital to explain your situation and see what they would take? If it goes to collection it may end up being much less, but something to try before it gets that far.

5. Cigarettes are costly. I won't moralize, but you know how much that costs month to month (and with long term health effects). That may be something to consider.

6. Did you fight the ticket? You take a gamble, but it won't hurt you financially or legally in any way to enter a not guilty plea and have a chance to discuss the situation with the magistrate or maybe even find out that cop doesn't show. I've done this a few times and gotten my money back.

I get another $220 out of steps 1-3. There is potential for more, but it's a start. Anyone else is welcome to chime in, but this took a few minutes to look over. I'm sure spending more time would yield some more thought about that.

-TheDDC
Last edited by TheDDC on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JoeSo
Posts: 42
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Location: Forks,WA
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm

mouses wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:17 pm
Re: (Cell phone-$165(wife pays,3 phones including her son's back east)

Internet/phone/TV- Internet $70,cable $98,no home phone

Credit card debt payment-Approx $210 monthly between 7 cards.

Yes wife is addicted to cigarettes,so much so that she'd rather smoke than eat...therefore a pack a day x 7 = almost $50 a week! )


Let the kid pay for his own phone. Consumer Cellular (which uses AT&T) two phones unlimited talk is $35 bucks plus fees. Get rid of cable. Stop the credit card payments. Your wife has to cut back on smoking.

YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PHONE NUMBERS IF YOU CHANGE CARRIERS. This has already been said.

You can free up a lot of extra cash if you do these things, and that will get rid of the $80 a month in late rent fee.

I thought you were desperate, but you can fix this with these economies.
You'd have to take the kid and smokes up with the wife,I've been down that road and she isn't budging. So I can only work on me right now...
I think that Consumer Cellular is what old people use,and I'm sure that doesn't include data.

MindBogler
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:05 pm

Re: Financial Hole

Post by MindBogler » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:10 pm
As I mentioned it was off the top of my head,there are probably some small things I forgot that would add up. One thing I've been working on is my food for work etc. But yes I may have forgotten auto insurance which is about $111/mo,life ins which is about $20,satellite radio for the long ride which is also about $20. Oh car payment which is $100. My credit cards add up to probably around only $3000,since most of them only gave me a limit of around $300 on the average. I am not paying for wife's family,out of her check she pays the rent and cell phones. We've had these phones for years and everyone knows our number etc...
You can port your phone number to another carrier if you can find a better deal, so that isn't something to worry about. With these extra expenses accounted for, it is clear that your budget is tight. But it isn't insurmountable and you're not doomed to fail.

These extra bills:

$111 - car insurance
$100 - car pmt
$20 - satellite radio
$20 - life ins
total: $251

This brings my previous math down to

$510 - 251 = $259 if you make some cuts.

Otherwise you're at:

$380 - $251 = $129 left over a month.

This is indeed tight but you have some areas left to cut (cable TV, satellite radio, cell phones). My advice is to cut discretionary spending heavily and focus on paying as much per month as you can towards credit cards. Avoid taking any further loans or adding to credit card balances at all costs. You didn't get in the hole overnight and you won't get out of it overnight either. Make a realistic 6, 12 and 18 month plan. I suspect with diligence and careful spending habits you can be free of your credit card debs in 12 months and then you can start building a 3-6 month emergency fund before paying off that auto loan.

Hang in there, you are going to be OK.

finite_difference
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Financial Hole

Post by finite_difference » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:25 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 pm
gmc4h232 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:54 pm
JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:38 pm
BostonButterfly wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:09 pm
soccerrules wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:13 pm
Joe-

As I read through some of these posts, THIS is what came to mind. It sounds like for where you live you are doing your best. Yes, you could reduce a few expenses here and there. It seems like a BIG move to a LCOL area with better employment options might be best. Also if you could live with a relative for 6-12 months to get back on track financially -- that would even be better.
Wishing the best for you and your family.
Joe - you mentioned family "across the country". Where do they live? Is it possible to live with them temporarily?
We're in WA,they're in NJ&PA...about 2900 miles away. The move alone originally cost us around $6000. In the meantime I've been trying funding campaigns and everything else out of desperation to get back out that way. Though I'd settle for just living near my job here for once. But as I mentioned numerous times,the housing/rental market here is exploding now and there's incredible competition for housing...so 'just moving' is not that easy.
If your relatives will let you stay with them and have offered to help you make a fresh start, then start heading east. Sell your broken car for a couple bus tickets and get going. As you stated, you have nothing left to sell, so it certainly shouldnt cost $6k to move. They probably already have furniture, so have yourself a little yard sale to get rid of last remaining bits of furniture that you wont need.

Moving is definitely that easy, you have just put it on a pedestal and are overthinking it. What else has you tied to WA?
You sound quite young and/or inexperienced...as someone mentioned a few posts ago I am no longer 20 years old can't just move. My wife and I are 40+ with more than just furniture.
So?

What does age have to do with anything? Don’t be imprisoned by the concept of “age”. Look at Taylor Larimore, our resident hero, who is still writing books and learning well past 90!

The only way you can change your life is by radically changing your thinking. You have to decide enough is enough. You have to stop doing the same thing over and over and try something new. Until you find something that works for you.

1. Get rid of everything. They are just things. Give your pets away to someone that can afford them. Maybe things are what have been holding you back all this time. Your pets need someone who can take care of them, and right now you need to take care of yourself and your wife.

2. Move to an area where you can earn a living wage. Try Salt Lake City. Or move in with your family in NJ/PA. If you don’t have any skills, learn one. Become an apprentice. Do whatever it takes. Go into more debt to learn a trade. And never stop learning.

3. Is there anything you would want to do, if you could? If so, do that. What are you waiting for? If you get good at it, then you will be able to get money for it. Your financial situation is already in ruins — so you really have nothing to lose. Being an underpaid/non-unionized janitor at 46 with no prospects is not going to work.

4. Change is hard, extremely hard, but it doesn’t sound like you are very happy with your situation. On the bright side you can write a book about it when you’re finished.

5. If you gave away your pets, quit smoking, stopped driving like 100+ miles a day and cut on food a bit you’d break even. But I dont think “breaking even” is really worth it here. You should aim much higher than that.

Just my opinion — you wanted unconventional advice, right?
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:29 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:21 pm
Hi Joe,

Just a few things that could be challenging at first, but I think you could start a "snowball" effect to help you get out of the current debt service problems affecting your cashflow. If you aren't declaring bankruptcy, this would be a good way to get out of your current situation.


Consider dumping Cable TV. Since you mentioned you are doing satellite, it seems like your cable and Internet may not be bundled so you shouldn't take a hit for unbundling TV and Internet service. That knocks off $98.

Cell phone - $165 for three phones is a bit pricey. My T-Mobile ONE plan costs $120 for three lines (including the $10/line kickback discount if we don't go over 2GB). You may be able to take your phones with you as well. That also includes the ONE Plus upgrade for my line (addl $10), so that could be $110. That knocks off about $55.

Your hospital debt is not large. Have you called the hospital to explain your situation and see what they would take? If it goes to collection it may end up being much less, but something to try before it gets that far.

Did you fight the ticket? You take a gamble, but it won't hurt you in any way to discuss the situation with the magistrate or maybe even find out if the cop doesn't show. I've done this a few times and got my money back.
TV will still cost something,even if it is net tv which would be kind of difficult since we only have 1 computer and can't do internet and watch tv at the same time. Besides my contract with Dish is fairly new and they would end up charging me to get out of the contract.

As I had mentioned the only phone services that I can pick up around here are AT&T or Verizon...but Verizon is king and everything else is spotty.

I have spoken with the hospital and have tried to make payments,but keep falling behind like I am currently.

As for the tickets,with the technology they use now like camera and radar I've very little chance to fight any tickets. I've just agreed to make small payments there too.

TheDDC
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:11 am

Re: Financial Hole

Post by TheDDC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm

Hi Joe,

Got it. How many cars do you have? Can you shop for some better priced auto insurance? The satellite radio is probably nice for that long drive. I had about a 100 mile RT drive a few years ago. I get that. Can you get data the whole way up with your phone and consider Pandora or another free streaming service?

I think a good first step which is 100% doable in a few months is getting the cash savings built so you have the cashflow available to pay the rent on time. That should be a goal. Pick what the next non-essential service is that you could live without. Just pick one to start. That part is up to you. For me, it would be the satellite radio. Is there any way to get out of the dish plan early?

-TheDDC

IRT
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Financial Hole

Post by IRT » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 pm

Dude’s got cell phones, Dish, WiFi, and satellite radio. I’d say he’s doin just fine!

bstewie
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Financial Hole

Post by bstewie » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:45 pm

mouses wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:17 pm
I thought you were desperate, but you can fix this with these economies.
Agreed.

Switch the cigarette habit from buying cigarettes to rolling your own if the wife doesn't want to cut back or quit. Grabbing a cigarette out of the pack is easy, putting in time to roll one every time you want a smoke will act as a natural incentive to smoke less during the day. Although I commute much less in my current situation, I also used to commute 140-200mi / day on a regular basis in recent years. I find cruise control results in both a less stressful commute, and prevents accidental speeding tickets. There are much cheaper (free) solutions to endless music and banter for the commute. As a single item in the monthly budget, $20 isn't much. However, you can't afford it! Until you believe $20 is significant and you can't afford it, you're going to remain in this struggle. Aim to drop your grocery bill to 40-50/week. It is more than possible, you just have to give up some of the nice to haves. There are very basic ingredient combinations which produce healthy, flavorful, diversified meals for cheap. We splurge on the nice to have meals once or twice a month. Others have provided excellent input regarding other fat you can cut. A few basic modifications will make a significant difference in your situation. Do what needs to be done. Extremely obvious monthly cash flow is right in front of you. You can bring back the nice to haves in a (very) short time if you tackle this head on and make necessary cuts. You are drowning, and when you are drowning, not everyone is entitled to an opinion on all fronts (wife included).

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm
How many cars do you have? Can you shop for some better priced auto insurance? The satellite radio is probably nice for that long drive. I had about a 100 mile RT drive a few years ago. I get that. Can you get data the whole way up with your phone and consider Pandora or another free streaming service?

Is there any way to get out of the dish plan early?
Only 1 car. I've tried scouring the area for other insurance but unfortunately those are the going rates for here...especially with full coverage required for my financed vehicle. As far as the data,I drive through some remote areas where my reception drops out anyway. I could get out of the Dish plan I think for maybe $300,or they prorate my contract which I've only been in since August last year.

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:49 pm

bstewie wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:45 pm
Aim to drop your grocery bill to 40-50/week. It is more than possible, you just have to give up some of the nice to haves. There are very basic ingredient combinations which produce healthy, flavorful, diversified meals for cheap. We splurge on the nice to have meals once or twice a month. . You can bring back the nice to haves in a (very) short time if you tackle this head on and make necessary cuts.
What's nice to haves? A low carb pizza once a week?...

bstewie
Posts: 57
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by bstewie » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:56 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:49 pm
What's nice to haves? A low carb pizza once a week?...
We generally look at a nice to have as anything that is a non-trivial cost per person, per meal (steak, for example). In your situation I would be looking at cooking with cheap, basic staples: bananas, bread, broccoli, beans, cheap chicken (thighs), eggs, rice, etc. If you budget $50/wk for 2 people, you want your average meal cost to be $1.19/person.

EDIT: Not sure if there is anything like this in your area, but we have a store which aggregates goods from local farmers and sells it in a weekly box you pickup on a specific day. You get a large box of fruits and vegetables for $25 and it is generally enough to last two people 7-10 days.
Last edited by bstewie on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheDDC
Posts: 199
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by TheDDC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:59 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm
How many cars do you have? Can you shop for some better priced auto insurance? The satellite radio is probably nice for that long drive. I had about a 100 mile RT drive a few years ago. I get that. Can you get data the whole way up with your phone and consider Pandora or another free streaming service?

Is there any way to get out of the dish plan early?
Only 1 car. I've tried scouring the area for other insurance but unfortunately those are the going rates for here...especially with full coverage required for my financed vehicle. As far as the data,I drive through some remote areas where my reception drops out anyway. I could get out of the Dish plan I think for maybe $300,or they prorate my contract which I've only been in since August last year.
What would your one thing to cut or reduce by 25-50% be? Everyone has something. That should be easy to pick one thing that will not threaten life or limb. That one thing will help you save and will then help you pay your rent on time. I think we've given a bunch of ideas that could help you get started here. I'd like to hear what you think.

-TheDDC

Jags4186
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 pm

Joe,

You shoot down every suggestion everyone makes.

Here’s my suggestion. Make more money and spend less. Don’t want to? Keep getting payday loans. You’re wasting everyone’s time.

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roymeo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by roymeo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 pm

There are alternatives to listening to satellite radio that haven',t been mentioned: mp3's? books on tape/cd from library, podcasts, etc.
Though finding the time to find stuff is a possible challenge....but it could earn you $240/year if I read that $20/month right.
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:59 pm
What would your one thing to cut or reduce by 25-50% be? I think we've given a bunch of ideas that could help you get started here. I'd like to hear what you think.
As I mentioned I could probably bulk on the food more,and if I have to take the bus to work.

pkcrafter
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:03 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:47 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:46 pm
Advising a guy to sell a house and live in a car for a while with a wife and kid? Really? That's not advice... unless the guy was like 20 years old and single.

Joe- Bottom line is give us a good idea of dollar amounts. I think we're spinning our wheels here.

What is your estimated monthly income (including SSDI)?

Your income- $1600 monthly net.

Min wage is WA is 11.50/hour. 12 hours a day = $138 X 5 days = $690/week, $2760/mo.

Wife SSDI income-$1200 monthly. Together is $3960/mo.

Medical insurance- None.

Mortgage- Rent $880(including the $80 late charges monthly)

Utilities-Electric $170 in winter,$30 water,$15 trash.

Cell phone-$165(wife pays,3 phones including her son's back east)

Internet/phone/TV- Internet $70,cable $98,no home phone.

Groceries- Avg $80/wk.

Medical-None. I owe $800 on a hospital bill which I've been trying without success to squeeze into budget.

Auto fuel-$75 weekly.

Credit card debt payment-Approx $210 monthly between 7 card. Big part of the problem

Pay day loan debt payment- Pay as I go...if I borrow $200 I pay it back next payday. You have got yourself in a loop, from which you can't get out without some major changes.

Anything else-Current traffic tickets totalling $250(wrong place at wrong time snagged by johnny on the spot thirsty cops for going a bit over the limit...bound to happen driving 140 round trip.)

The more info the more helpful info we can give you other than living out of a car, really.

-TheDDC
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

JoeSo
Posts: 42
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Location: Forks,WA
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:03 pm
JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:47 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:46 pm

Your income- $1600 monthly net.

Min wage is WA is 11.50/hour. 12 hours a day = $138 X 5 days = $690/week, $2760/mo.

Wife SSDI income-$1200 monthly. Together is $3960/mo.
Where do you get those figures? We net $2800 a month total.

FoolMeOnce
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Financial Hole

Post by FoolMeOnce » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:29 pm
TV will still cost something,even if it is net tv which would be kind of difficult since we only have 1 computer and can't do internet and watch tv at the same time. Besides my contract with Dish is fairly new and they would end up charging me to get out of the contract.
I'm sorry you are in a tough situation, but with this attitude toward a $98 expense you cannot afford, I am afraid there is little hope.

How long is the Dish contract? I think the termination fee is $20 for each month early. Cut Dish, get Netflix and a Chromecast or Amazon Fire Stick. You'll probably make up the difference in a month or two, unless you just recently signed up for a multi-year contract for something you absolutely cannot afford.

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:14 pm

FoolMeOnce wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 pm
How long is the Dish contract? I think the termination fee is $20 for each month early. Cut Dish, get Netflix and a Chromecast or Amazon Fire Stick. You'll probably make up the difference in a month or two, unless you just recently signed up for a multi-year contract for something you absolutely cannot afford.
As I had mentioned we just got the Dish last August,when we could afford it. Things only started to snowball since probably the beginning of the year...happy new year eh?

TheDDC
Posts: 199
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by TheDDC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:15 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:59 pm
What would your one thing to cut or reduce by 25-50% be? I think we've given a bunch of ideas that could help you get started here. I'd like to hear what you think.
As I mentioned I could probably bulk on the food more,and if I have to take the bus to work.
Good! That's pretty amazing you can take the bus 70 mi. each way to work, actually. I would have much rather done that than drive even 100 miles RT. Can't imagine what 140 mi. does to a man every day. So what would your bus fare be monthly?

Can you squeeze $200 per month savings between bus and food? In 4 months alone you will have enough cash built up to pay your rent on time. If you find something else it could come in 3 months... 2 months... Then you get an extra $80 per month on top of the $200 and get to pick something else to pay off.

-TheDDC

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:21 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:15 pm
That's pretty amazing you can take the bus 70 mi. each way to work, actually. I would have much rather done that than drive even 100 miles RT. Can't imagine what 140 mi. does to a man every day. So what would your bus fare be monthly?

Can you squeeze $200 per month savings between bus and food? In 4 months alone you will have enough cash built up to pay your rent on time. If you find something else it could come in 3 months... 2 months... Then you get an extra $80 per month on top of the $200 and get to pick something else to pay off.
I'd have to make 1 connection for the bus,I just have to work out the times so I don't have to cut much time off of work to make the buses...I already have to leave super early. I could also spare out one of my days off to work an extra job. I would like some time to myself to look for another job closer or more $$ if that's possible. In the 2 years I've been here there haven't been many options.

needadvise1
Posts: 14
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by needadvise1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:32 pm

If you call to cancel the satellite radio, I can almost guarantee you will get it for half price for the next year.

JoeSo
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by JoeSo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:35 pm

needadvise1 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:32 pm
If you call to cancel the satellite radio, I can almost guarantee you will get it for half price for the next year.
I've tried that and they were like fine cancel. Though if I actually do cancel I might get an incentive to come back;

TheDDC
Posts: 199
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by TheDDC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:35 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:21 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:15 pm
That's pretty amazing you can take the bus 70 mi. each way to work, actually. I would have much rather done that than drive even 100 miles RT. Can't imagine what 140 mi. does to a man every day. So what would your bus fare be monthly?

Can you squeeze $200 per month savings between bus and food? In 4 months alone you will have enough cash built up to pay your rent on time. If you find something else it could come in 3 months... 2 months... Then you get an extra $80 per month on top of the $200 and get to pick something else to pay off.
I'd have to make 1 connection for the bus,I just have to work out the times so I don't have to cut much time off of work to make the buses...I already have to leave super early. I could also spare out one of my days off to work an extra job. I would like some time to myself to look for another job closer or more $$ if that's possible. In the 2 years I've been here there haven't been many options.
I see. The key for you here is to set a goal of cutting or doing without to stop relying on debt. Then reap the near immediate benefits: rent gets paid on time, no more pay say loans to get by, hospital bill paid. Even one recurring monthly payment checked off your list should help motivate you.

If you start cutting more, you will be rewarded sooner. Your choice. Getting out of debt for you should come easier than I originally thought when you started this thread. A big part is the mindset. What would you do with an extra $200 per month to make you reduce stress. The answer needs to be: get out from under any debt you can.

Of course getting a better paying job will help accelerate your goals but I think you also need to cut a few things to stop relying on debt for basic living costs. That is huge. And immediate. A new job may take awhile, but you should consider what you need to do to get that job soon.

-TheDDC

tazaman
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by tazaman » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:37 pm

If your wife is at home she could consider work from home options:

https://clark.com/employment-military/work-home-guide/

FoolMeOnce
Posts: 282
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by FoolMeOnce » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:40 pm

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:14 pm
FoolMeOnce wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 pm
How long is the Dish contract? I think the termination fee is $20 for each month early. Cut Dish, get Netflix and a Chromecast or Amazon Fire Stick. You'll probably make up the difference in a month or two, unless you just recently signed up for a multi-year contract for something you absolutely cannot afford.
As I had mentioned we just got the Dish last August,when we could afford it. Things only started to snowball since probably the beginning of the year...happy new year eh?
That's too bad that you got locked in before harder times hit. However, even at a $340 cancellation fee (guessing ~17 months remaining), you'd make that back in 4 months by canceling even after adding Netflix or something similar. Also, have you looked into downgrading your Dish package? Maybe there is a much smaller fee that would make downgrading a worthwhile option.

Cutting satellite radio seems small, but it is a step out of continual debt. Plenty of free podcasts to download. Or buy a bunch of $0.50 cent CDs at a local Goodwill. Or add back a music subscription service for $10/mo and download new music whenever you want.

Cell phones...said many times, you can bring your number with you. And even if AT&T and Verizon are the only major carriers in your area, the smaller discount carriers don't use their own towers, they just rent space on the major carriers' towers, so several are probably available with the same coverage as Verizon or AT&T. Take a look here at pricing: https://www.wirefly.com/content/phone-p ... gton/forks (it looks like Sprint covers Forks, too).

michaeljc70
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:40 pm

Driving 140 miles RT to a minimum wage job while living where rent with utilities is over $1000/mo is not ideal. I would try to move. Given your situation, moving in with family or friends is probably the only option. It doesn't have to be forever. Just to get your head above water. I don't know your background/experience, but if you cannot find a better job now when unemployment is near all time lows, the outlook isn't good where you live. If you are going to be 70 miles from work, you cannot find anywhere cheaper to live??

You said rents are high because the market is hot, but there are no jobs? So who is renting all these places?

I realize your wife pays for her son's phone with her money, but does she realize the extent of your families financial problems?

Being late with the rent every month and taking out payday loans while paying other peoples phone bills, spending on internet, satellite tv, satellite radio and $200/mo on cigarettes doesn't make sense to me.

Though I am sure you are frustrated, you seem to keep saying that X is only Y dollars per month in a situation where every dollar matters.

CFM300
Posts: 1373
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by CFM300 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:44 pm

You're living beyond your means. Either earn more or spend less. You could EASILY spend less, and many of the suggestions (wife quit smoking, stop watching TV) would likely improve your mental and physical health as well.

Instead, you're working 12 hours days, not sleeping at night because of financial stress, and STILL going further into debt.

Why are you fighting so hard to maintain the status quo?
Last edited by CFM300 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John Doe 123
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by John Doe 123 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:44 pm

I have seen many good suggestions in this thread and they have all been met with skepticism and denial by Joe.

Best of luck to you Joe, but you need to be willing to make some tough changes in your spending to fix this problem.

Until you are ready to change your spending habits, you are simply digging a deeper hole.

This will be the extent of my contribution to this thread until I see some more humble responses from Joe. He is not ready to change his lifestyle to fix this problem. I think everyone is simply wasting their time.

Finridge
Posts: 496
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Finridge » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:01 am

I don't get it... If I were to have a credit balance that was carrying interest, I'd be eating rice and beans, and not have cable, dish, satellite radio, etc. Cancel all that stuff. At least until you can afford it. There are people here on this forum with $1+ million portfolios that are spending less on entertainment than you. Differentiate between luxuries and necessities, and stop spending on luxuries. Just. Stop. Full stop.

inbox788
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by inbox788 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:09 am

FoolMeOnce wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:40 pm
Cutting satellite radio seems small, but it is a step out of continual debt. Plenty of free podcasts to download. Or buy a bunch of $0.50 cent CDs at a local Goodwill. Or add back a music subscription service for $10/mo and download new music whenever you want.
I just threw away an offer for Sirius $30 for 6 months! The do this all the time. You just have to cancel your service for 6 months, and save $120 from that. Then when they give you the discount offer, sign up for just the 6 months and save another $90. Would you like $210 extra a year? Keep doing this back and forth, and you still have your radio half the time for a fraction of the cost.

Do you know how much you've paid in late fees, interest and finance charges, loan fees, etc. in the last month? Last 6 months? Much of these could be going towards paying down real debt or actual expenses. Instead, you're borrowing to pay fees, which is a downward spiral that's spinning out of control. You've got to stop spinning and get a handle of these fees that are for the most part avoidable. If you didn't have these fees, would you be able to manage? If so, then temporarily cut back on expenses until you've reach a stable balance. If you still can't balance without all these fees, then you need to make even more drastic cuts. It's going to be difficult. Very difficult, but it's pain now or more pain later.

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catdude
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Location: Central Oregon

Re: Financial Hole

Post by catdude » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:33 am

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm
I think that Consumer Cellular is what old people use,and I'm sure that doesn't include data.
Guilty as charged!

I'm 62 years old, and I use Consumer Cellular. Yeah, I'm an old dog. I pay CC 25 bucks a month for my cell service, and yes, that includes data.

I'm a generally frugal person, and on the whole frugality has served me well over the years (altho God knows I've made financial and other mistakes). I recommend it highly.
catdude | | All generalizations are false, including this one.

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by LiterallyIronic » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:38 am

IRT wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 pm
Dude’s got cell phones, Dish, WiFi, and satellite radio. I’d say he’s doin just fine!
This is the problem right here.
JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm
You'd have to take the kid and smokes up with the wife,I've been down that road and she isn't budging. So I can only work on me right now...
I think that Consumer Cellular is what old people use,and I'm sure that doesn't include data.
100 responses and OP shoots everything down. So tough love it is.

You want to know how to fix your problems? You cancel your TV service. People are saying, "Get Hulu or Netflix." No. You have no money. I don't care if you and your family are stuck staring at the wall all night. You have no money. That means you have no TV.

You cancel your wife's son's phone. Let him port the number out if he wants it, but you cancel the line. You're paying $165 for three lines. That's almost what I pay for ten lines. Switch to another provider. I don't care if the service is spotty. You switch to a cheaper provider and then count yourself lucky when you're standing at a place that has reception.

And you have data on your phone? Get rid of that and get a pre-paid plan that only does calling and texting. You can keep your number and use a dumb phone.

Satellite radio? Are you kidding me? From now on you drive your 140 miles in silence if you can't get regular radio - or stick a tape/CD in and listen to that.

$200/month on cigarettes? I could not care less if your wife would rather smoke than eat. She's going cold turkey starting now. Non-negotiable.

If you really are making minimum wage, then guess what? You can make minimum wage at any job. Enough with the 70 miles one-way. Walmart or McDonalds will also pay minimum wage and they'll be a lot closer than 70 miles each way. That'll save you two hours every day so you don't have to be so stressed OR you can earn income for those two hours instead of driving around wasting gas.

Your auto insurance is high because you have to have comp/coll on your financed car. Sell it. Buy a $1,000 clunker. Then you don't have to pay the car loan or the higher insurance. And if you get a closer job to where you live, then the reliability isn't an issue.

I'm sorry for being so mean. But desperate times call for desperate measures. No excuses.

IRT
Posts: 44
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by IRT » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:00 am

LiterallyIronic, sorry but that’s all gonna sound too reasonable.

OP: I burn $100 bills in my fireplace every night.
Bogleheads: Maybe you can’t afford to do that?
OP: But how will I stay warm?

... this thread.

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catdude
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by catdude » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 am

LiterallyIronic is right....

OP, either make some necessary changes, or live the way you're living for the rest of your life.
catdude | | All generalizations are false, including this one.

2Birds1Stone
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Location: New York

Re: Financial Hole

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:44 am

It's amazing how the choices we make are not our fault and the consequences are just some random force of luck eh?

Until you shift your mindset, you will keep digging deeper and deeper into a hole.

I hope you see that sooner than later, and before it's too late.

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mrc
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by mrc » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:11 am

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm
You'd have to take the kid and smokes up with the wife,I've been down that road and she isn't budging. So I can only work on me right now...
I think that Consumer Cellular is what old people use,and I'm sure that doesn't include data.
Wow. :annoyed

Consumer Cellular offers cheaper plans than your current one. You just don't get the 5% AARP discount until you're old enough. :wink:

Just a cellphone plan switch could eliminate the late rent fee, or obviate the payday loans. Pretty low hanging fruit.
If it’s not long term it’s small talk

Dudley
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Dudley » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:21 am

my opinion is this thread is time wasting and should be shut down

mouses
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by mouses » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:30 am

Dudley wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:21 am
my opinion is this thread is time wasting and should be shut down
I'm stamping my feet on these nails here. It is a difficult situation.

Don't stamp on the nails.

But I need to stamp on the nails.

Never have so many bogleheads wasted so much time and good advice on someone who is not listening.

Jags4186
Posts: 2457
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:40 am

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:09 pm
Wife SSDI income-$1200 monthly. Together is $3960/mo.

Where do you get those figures? We net $2800 a month total.
You said you have 2 children. Your gross income including SSDI is $52,080 based on the numbers you give. You pay no income taxes and should be getting a refundable child tax credit and, if the earned income tax credit exists, all of that back. Since you have no deductions for healthcare you should have no deductions in your paycheck beyond social security and medicare. Increase your allowances from 2 to 100. You should have nothing taken out of your paycheck.

Moderators, this thread is apparently non actionable so it should be closed.

Windylotus
Posts: 51
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Windylotus » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:35 am

JoeSo wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:29 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:21 pm
Hi Joe,

Just a few things that could be challenging at first, but I think you could start a "snowball" effect to help you get out of the current debt service problems affecting your cashflow. If you aren't declaring bankruptcy, this would be a good way to get out of your current situation.


Consider dumping Cable TV. Since you mentioned you are doing satellite, it seems like your cable and Internet may not be bundled so you shouldn't take a hit for unbundling TV and Internet service. That knocks off $98.

Cell phone - $165 for three phones is a bit pricey. My T-Mobile ONE plan costs $120 for three lines (including the $10/line kickback discount if we don't go over 2GB). You may be able to take your phones with you as well. That also includes the ONE Plus upgrade for my line (addl $10), so that could be $110. That knocks off about $55.

Your hospital debt is not large. Have you called the hospital to explain your situation and see what they would take? If it goes to collection it may end up being much less, but something to try before it gets that far.

Did you fight the ticket? You take a gamble, but it won't hurt you in any way to discuss the situation with the magistrate or maybe even find out if the cop doesn't show. I've done this a few times and got my money back.
TV will still cost something,even if it is net tv which would be kind of difficult since we only have 1 computer and can't do internet and watch tv at the same time. Besides my contract with Dish is fairly new and they would end up charging me to get out of the contract.

As I had mentioned the only phone services that I can pick up around here are AT&T or Verizon...but Verizon is king and everything else is spotty.

I have spoken with the hospital and have tried to make payments,but keep falling behind like I am currently.

As for the tickets,with the technology they use now like camera and radar I've very little chance to fight any tickets. I've just agreed to make small payments there too.
JoeSo,

Sorry about you're situation, I feel your pain man.

My wife and I used to be Verizon customers years ago. We switched to Straight Talk Wireless 5 years ago and have been very happy. It's is a company through Wal Mart. It's a no contract cellular company that you pay monthly. Their service uses Verizon towers so, anywhere you get Verizon cell service you're good to go with Straight Talk.

You can keep your current cell number and use your current cell phone with them. Their plans range from basic a service, $30 a month unlimited texting and calls to, $45 a month unlimited texting, calls and data. They have very inexpensive smart phones available as well. You don't even need a Wal Mart store around you to participate. All can be done online.

We pay $95 a month (with fee's) for two cell smart phone plans. We have been very happy with the service and love the "no contract", just pay month by month.

Best of luck to you and hope this may give you a good option for some cellular savings.

https://www.straighttalk.com/wps/portal/home

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:37 am

JoeSo wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:29 pm
Already got that figured out...wife has a discount plan with AT&T and we've had our phones for years,plus my number is out there on my resumes etc so I'd have to change all that because I'd have to get a new number with another carrier. The area I'm in is pretty remote so the only towers around are ATT or Verizon...and Verizon is more expensive.
Consumer Cellular piggybacks on AT&T (and T-Mobile) towers, so if you do have AT&T service where you live, Consumer Cellular should be an option (if, of course, they charge less that what your current AT&T plan is charging). And as others have noted, you don't have to change your number, these days you can port an existing number from one provider to another.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

Arabesque
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by Arabesque » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:53 am

Media costs: the public library has CDs and DVDs you can borrow for free. It might take planning to get there with work, but I save a $1000+/year through the library

mouses
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by mouses » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:03 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:37 am
JoeSo wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:29 pm
Already got that figured out...wife has a discount plan with AT&T and we've had our phones for years,plus my number is out there on my resumes etc so I'd have to change all that because I'd have to get a new number with another carrier. The area I'm in is pretty remote so the only towers around are ATT or Verizon...and Verizon is more expensive.
Consumer Cellular piggybacks on AT&T (and T-Mobile) towers, so if you do have AT&T service where you live, Consumer Cellular should be an option (if, of course, they charge less that what your current AT&T plan is charging). And as others have noted, you don't have to change your number, these days you can port an existing number from one provider to another.
He's already been told this multiple times. He is not listening.

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teen persuasion
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Re: Financial Hole

Post by teen persuasion » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:55 am

Arabesque wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:53 am
Media costs: the public library has CDs and DVDs you can borrow for free. It might take planning to get there with work, but I save a $1000+/year through the library
THIS!

Not only DVDs and CDs but free electronic services like Freegal (free & legal music downloads/streaming) and Hoopla (movies, TV, music, e-books, audio books, comics), Zinio/RBDigital (e-magazines), Overdrive (e-books and audio books), etc.

Once you've got your library card, you don't need to go back to the library to access the online content, and can access it 24/7. There may be limits (10 Hoopla downloads/month, for example), but those are per card, so double your access by getting library cards for both of you.

I work in my local library, and we'd love to service you and increase our circulation numbers, please use the free services available to you! You'd be saving yourself money AND supporting jobs locally.

Locked