Disability Insurance - Physician

[RamblinDoc]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

[Benton Bair]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

Talk with a Guardian Insurance Company agent.

[bubbadog]

I got my specialty specific policy from Northwestern Mutual 22 years ago.

[tic]

PM sent

[climber2020]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

Everything you need to know: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what- ... insurance/

I personally would not buy a policy through the AMA. Everything you stated is important, and also look for strong mental health coverage. Some companies cap mental health at a few years. Psych issues resulting in disability are just as common if not more so than breaking a hand.

[Strayshot]

Policies, even when offering similar benefits at the top level, can all be different. Different issuers can price out policies with pretty dramatic deltas in $ for the same specialty because they put them in different categories.

My recommendation is, especially since your DI premiums in practice will be in the 5-10k per year range, spend the time to go to an independent broker now and get the best policy for your specialty that can be issued and use someone who knows docs.

Whatever you do don’t just walk into an agent for a single company and work with them.

[cheapindexer]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

[uberdoc]

Employer provided LTD insurance is usually very limited. An independent LTD insurance with "own occupation" rider and a very specific definition of own occupation should be considered. This goes something like this- as a surgeon if I am not able to operate inside operating room, I will qualify for the LTD payment even if I could still work in an outpatient wound care clinic or take management position somewhere.

[RamblinDoc]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

Everything you need to know: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what- ... insurance/

I personally would not buy a policy through the AMA. Everything you stated is important, and also look for strong mental health coverage. Some companies cap mental health at a few years. Psych issues resulting in disability are just as common if not more so than breaking a hand.

Thanks!

[RamblinDoc]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

Talk with a Guardian Insurance Company agent.

Thanks!

[RamblinDoc]

Thank you for everyone’s insight.

To add a curveball, I’m in the military. The few policies I’ve see don’t cover me if I’m injured in a military conflict.

1. Are there military docs who found a company that doesn’t have a war clause?

2. Is that even necessary in your opinion? The military has disability benefits, but nothing like “occupational specific” coverage to account for lost wages for physicians.

[Twood]

Have you tried talking to USAA?

[RamblinDoc]

Have you tried talking to USAA?

I have not - I know they offer life insurance, but didn’t think they offered disability.

Will check though.

[Erwin007]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

I would be shocked if most physicians’ DI needs would be met by the DI provided by a hospital or health care system. What is your monthly benefit? Exclusion period?

[asdfgf]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

Employer-provided group disability plans are generally garbage. They're better than nothing, but largely inadequate for most.

[am]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

These policies are often limited, like 2 yr mental/nervous coverage. If you switch jobs with a preexisting condition you may be out of luck. You’ll pay a lot if your older like this poster also if new employer doesn’t have insurance.

[malabargold]

Get a long exclusion period to get best premiums.

[toofache32]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

Everything you need to know: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what- ... insurance/

I personally would not buy a policy through the AMA. Everything you stated is important, and also look for strong mental health coverage. Some companies cap mental health at a few years. Psych issues resulting in disability are just as common if not more so than breaking a hand.

Fully agree. Start with the white coat investor blog and it will lead you in the right direction. The author of the blog is also on bogleheads and is a former military doc.

I would avoid any policies through an association, especially AMA which is known to not have physicians' best interest at heart.

[toofache32]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

I would be shocked if most physicians’ DI needs would be met by the DI provided by a hospital or health care system. What is your monthly benefit? Exclusion period?

This only applies if the physician is employed by a hospital. Many physicians (such as myself) work IN a hospital but not FOR a hospital. I do my own billings and get paid nothing by the hospital.

[Erwin007]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

I would be shocked if most physicians’ DI needs would be met by the DI provided by a hospital or health care system. What is your monthly benefit? Exclusion period?

This only applies if the physician is employed by a hospital. Many physicians (such as myself) work IN a hospital but not FOR a hospital. I do my own billings and get paid nothing by the hospital.

I am employed by a hospital. My provided DI is garbage. Hence my questions.

[toofache32]

It’s another reason to be an employed physician, I’m 47 and have had a policy all along since finishing fellowship paid for by my employer

My wife is a physician too so perhaps I don’t have as much need for a policy as one physician families

IMO I would get one if my BMI is over 30 Because odds of needing disability skyrocket with obesity

I would be shocked if most physicians’ DI needs would be met by the DI provided by a hospital or health care system. What is your monthly benefit? Exclusion period?

This only applies if the physician is employed by a hospital. Many physicians (such as myself) work IN a hospital but not FOR a hospital. I do my own billings and get paid nothing by the hospital.

I am employed by a hospital. My provided DI is garbage. Hence my questions.

Doesn't surprise me. This doesn't benefit them other than getting you to sign on the line, so they are always gonna cheap out on it.

[BruDude]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

I'd suggest working with an independent agent. IMO, the "top tier" of disability insurance companies would include Guardian, Standard, Principal, Ohio National, Ameritas, and Mass Mutual. I would suggest looking at a quote with the following benefits:

-Guaranteed renewable and non-cancelable contract, meaning the insurance company cannot change any terms of the contract and the premiums are guaranteed not to increase through age 65/67. The non-can benefit that guarantees no premium increases is an option with some companies, included as part of the base policy with others.
-Max available benefit based on your income and factoring in government benefits
-True own-occupation definition of disability, including Specialty definition (note that Principal is the only of the companies mentioned above that doesn't include the Specialty language in their definitions)
-90-day elimination period
-To-age-65 benefit period
-Maximum Future Increase Option rider
-COLA rider
-Partial Disability/Residual Disability rider (Enhanced version if there is both a Basic and Enhanced available)

You can reduce cost by choosing a longer elimination period, a shorter benefit period (though you probably want age-65 benefits at a minimum), or changing/removing optional riders.


Another one of your posts says you are in the military. Since the government offers disability benefits, the amount of coverage you will be able to purchase on an individual policy is going to be more limited. If you are a first-year physician, you can qualify for $6500-7500/month in benefits regardless of the government benefits. I don't think you will find any individual DI policies that cover acts of war while serving in the military.

[darrvao777]

I would go to WCI, peruse a few articles, and use one of his recommended agents

I used Larry Keller and had a great experience

[Kencufc]

I’m an employed physician with some 1099 income. I have an individual LTD policy through Ohio National. Thy gave me very good rates and I even got a 10% reduction in pre I’m because I bought a $2M 20 year term along with it. I went through an independent broker.

I also have group LTD and term life insurance. Neither group policy are even close to as good as my individual policy. I strongly recommend an individual policy.

The premium in a ver small percentage of my take home pay but well worth it. Should be FI in 20years so I plan to let the term policy expire and will cancel the LTD as soon as the FI is reached.

[island]

For this type of insurance are the disability payments taxed?

[toofache32]

For this type of insurance are the disability payments taxed?

Not if you pay premiums with post-tax dollars.

[RamblinDoc]

Where do Boglehead-physicians tend get their disability insurance?

What are people's opinions about DI through the AMA?

From what I read, it is important to ensure that we obtain DI that is occupation specific, has a COLA adjustment, and possibly has a partial disability clause. Is there anything else we should be aware of?

Thanks!

I'd suggest working with an independent agent. IMO, the "top tier" of disability insurance companies would include Guardian, Standard, Principal, Ohio National, Ameritas, and Mass Mutual. I would suggest looking at a quote with the following benefits:

-Guaranteed renewable and non-cancelable contract, meaning the insurance company cannot change any terms of the contract and the premiums are guaranteed not to increase through age 65/67. The non-can benefit that guarantees no premium increases is an option with some companies, included as part of the base policy with others.
-Max available benefit based on your income and factoring in government benefits
-True own-occupation definition of disability, including Specialty definition (note that Principal is the only of the companies mentioned above that doesn't include the Specialty language in their definitions)
-90-day elimination period
-To-age-65 benefit period
-Maximum Future Increase Option rider
-COLA rider
-Partial Disability/Residual Disability rider (Enhanced version if there is both a Basic and Enhanced available)

You can reduce cost by choosing a longer elimination period, a shorter benefit period (though you probably want age-65 benefits at a minimum), or changing/removing optional riders.


Another one of your posts says you are in the military. Since the government offers disability benefits, the amount of coverage you will be able to purchase on an individual policy is going to be more limited. If you are a first-year physician, you can qualify for $6500-7500/month in benefits regardless of the government benefits. I don't think you will find any individual DI policies that cover acts of war while serving in the military.

Outstanding - thank you.

[O2sats]

I would go to WCI, peruse a few articles, and use one of his recommended agents

I used Larry Keller and had a great experience

Agreed, I also used Larry Keller and have nothing but positive things to say.

[Thrifty Femme]

I'm not a physician but my broker, Stephanie Pearson, is a physician that has first hand experience trying to claim disability insurance. I chose her because of her personal experience and he willingness to advocate for her clients. She doing an excellent job of explaining each carrier's definitions and the pros and cons of the differences between the carriers. I'm very close to purchasing a policy with her.