Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

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vested1
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by vested1 »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:37 pm
vested1 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm Or more for your money in Keaau, although with a bit more rain.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/9 ... 5_zm/1_fr/
Keaau is VOG city. Nearly warm volcano land. Thin topsoil. Some areas can't get property insurance if it's in a volcano zone.
The low property values , relatively speaking, in "Hawaiian Acres", Keaau, etc, etc, attract folks from afar. Similar to land in Vegas in some parts.
:D
Another good reason to rent first, and further proof that members have knowledge that help us make informed decisions.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am Just thinking outside the box, have you considered west coast of USA? Meaning somewhere outside of Portland OR in either OR or WA?

Portland itself is prohibitively expensive, but if you get out of commuter range-ish, better. You have good local schools. You have nice people. You have a mild climate-- yes lots of rain, but a mild winter. You could do holidays in Hawaii twice a year? Main issue would seem to be whether one can take the grey skies.

A poster here ( texasdiver ) made that move (to a suburb of Portland but in WA I believe) and seems very happy.
Actually, we looked at the west coast HEAVILY, from San Diego to Sequim, WA, and found issue after issue that made those locations a non-starter for us. We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:48 am You surf and get disability pay?
Well, I don't get disability pay, yet, but yes I will. There are many issues which are disability rated that don't impair surfing ability, like PTSD for example.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:37 pm
vested1 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm Or more for your money in Keaau, although with a bit more rain.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/9 ... 5_zm/1_fr/
Keaau is VOG city. Nearly warm volcano land. Thin topsoil. Some areas can't get property insurance if it's in a volcano zone.
The low property values , relatively speaking, in "Hawaiian Acres", Keaau, etc, etc, attract folks from afar. Similar to land in Vegas in some parts.
:D
Yes, we would like to rent at first since there are so many micro-climates on the island from desert to rain forest, high vog and low vog areas. We will have to look into the specifics of the VA loan and hopefully we can buy AFTER I retire and not be forced to buy before. I'm pretty sure that I would not be able to get a conventional loan after retirement.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

GmanJeff wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:47 pm "5. Having young kids, I may have underestimated the "cost of kids". Is there a good formula/method to use to forecast out their financial burden? What might be some of the bigger things I haven't thought of?"

I'm not aware of any useful formula, but if you use your imagination and focus on this question you may end up with a list like this, which other parents will no doubt be able to add to:

1. Enrichment activities intended to stimulate and maximize their abilities and potential, and to equip them with life skills. Examples which have a price tag associated with them could include learning to play one or more musical instruments, martial arts, Scouting, sports which involve coaching/lessons (e.g. golf, tennis), equipment and travel; the acquisition of specialized skills in which your children have an interest (e.g., in the case of my son, SCUBA certification, certification as a Krav Maga instructor, and Emergency Medical Technician training) and hobbies of all kinds. These kinds of things usually involve driving around, so add in some fuel and wear-and-tear expenses for your vehicles.
2. Travel to historic and/or cultural sites in other states, and to foreign cultures and environments.
3. As children age, they tend to desire more expensive clothing and gifts than what you may be used to providing when they are smaller. You need not indulge them, but you can reasonably anticipate the requests.
4. As children age, they will want electronics (e.g., smart phones, tablets, computers, game systems) which will need periodic replacement and which usually are associated with ongoing subscription/service plans. As with clothing and gifts, you need not not accommodate such requests, but you can anticipate them.
5. Children, (and you and your spouse), may develop medical or psychological needs which may not be covered by your insurance. Counseling and other expenses could, if required, become an unplanned expense and, as others have noted, may not even be available without expensive travel off-island.

Much of this is dependent on the type of environment you wish to provide for your children and the extent to which you want to give them opportunities to fully develop their potential. Children, like adults, can certainly get by on a strict budget, but whether that's in their best interests is another question. Obviously, your lifestyle, employment, and budgeting decisions may constrain what you can do for your children, especially if your budget is inflexible because all your income and assets are obligated for other purposes. An additional potential variable for you is whether you are able to effectively and responsibly execute your plan to home school your children until they are college-aged. If that plan fails for any reason (e.g., an inability to provide the appropriate educational content because a child is unusually gifted or has special needs, or has a capacity for and interest in AP-level coursework, or in a IB curriculum - can you yourselves provide that level of instruction in the sciences, languages, economics, and other diverse and specialized focus areas?), or perhaps a child is just unreceptive to the home environment for school), private school expenses would need to be added in to your budget.
Thank you, this is a helpful list to get us into thinking about those costs. One of my hopes is that by homeschooling, we might be able to remove some of the peer pressure to get the right things or wear the right clothes. We do desire to fund language classes, extra curricular activities, scouting, SCUBA when they become of age, etc... I mean, that's the problem with Big Island, there's simply so much to do. We will also incorporate surfing into the P.E. requirement for homeschool, so we'll combine some costs there... :D
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Sandtrap
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Sandtrap »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am . . . We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
Okay. I get it now. :oops:
This information changes the "quantifiables" you introduced before.

Look along this route.
(Second Choice)
From Kamuela to Honokaa, along the from Paauilo, to Lapahoehoe to Pepeekeo. There are new areas opening up. Prior cane fields on the mauka (mountain side) of the highway have great views and fertile soil. If you can afford around Pepeekeo, you will like it a lot. Forever views, great land, not ghetto or shady. Middle class to upper. Acreage can be had instead of small sq foot. Closer to Hilo and it will be rain and rain and rain. Upper hilo is nice but can be pricey.
(Third Choice)
From Hilo to the Volcano (Puna) gets cheaper and cheaper with acreage available though pretty wet in some areas. Think "Fern Gully" and fog.
Puna, Hawaiian Acres, are all on that end. Some roads go to "shady" areas. Mountain View is nice. Think, "horses". But, again, wet n fog.
Also, very far from more modern stores and shopping.
(First Choice)
From Kona to Captain Cook, is nice. Weather is moderate. Lots are smaller. Lot's of coffee farms, etc. You may like this better.

Here's a link to the places to surf: Kona side is nice. IMHO best beaches and surf on the Big Island year round. Weather is good. Not so rainy and surf is not so "hammered" as other parts of the Big Island.
https://wannasurf.com/spot/North_Americ ... index.html

You can find a nice cottage on good growing land in areas that are "off the grid" if that is to your liking. Catchment water, solar, etc. There are tons of folks with a more "natural lifestyle" on the Big Island. Of all the islands, IMHO, it is the place for this. I have friends and family in Mountain View, Pepeekeo, Puna, Kamuela, Waikii, Waikaloa, etc.

Highly suggest you rent a place in Hilo and live there for awhile and explore all that side as though you were living there permanently. Same for Kamuela and Kona. There is a different local "culture" (vibe)" in these areas and you might be happier in the long run finding your "spot".

mahalo,
j :D
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Sandtrap wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:39 pm Why it is worth any price for folks to live in Hawaii.
OP: You're pretty solid, you can "make" it happen.
"""""Surf's UP !!! :D

Took this shot up the road from my sometime place in Kailua. Dawn. 2 young surfers were just emerging from the water. Have it in my Getty/Adobe portfolio.
Enjoy. :D
Image
Beautiful. I printed this up and put it in my cubicle. Can't wait to end these cubicle days...
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Sandtrap
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Sandtrap »

Okay.
Now you simply have to move.
Image
j :D
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Puakinekine
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Puakinekine »

Nicolas wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 pm
Puakinekine wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:33 pm I normally hesitate to chime in on these Hawaii threads. There are always many opinions bandied about and it makes me weary to read them. I also know that most people are going to do what they want to do, no matter what you tell them. When asking your opinion, they are often asking for your confirmation.

This is a place that of course has many commonalities with life experiences on the Mainland and other places, but much that is unique to here. Also, Hawaii Island is not Oahu.

All I will say, and I say this very strongly, please come and rent for a while. Find out if this is really the place for you and your wife, without the possibility of a huge financial hit. Visits don't cut it, you have to be doing the day to day for at least a year, or even more, before you will be able to figure this out.
Apparently not a problem. The OP posted this yesterday morning:

We have lived in Hawaii before for years so this is a normal move for us, nothing special.
The OP is talking of moving to Hawaii Island aka the Big Island. It is worlds away from Oahu, where I had presumed he had lived before. It is doubtful he would have been based here, as we have only a minute military presence compared to Oahu.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Puakinekine wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:46 am
Nicolas wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 pm
Puakinekine wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:33 pm I normally hesitate to chime in on these Hawaii threads. There are always many opinions bandied about and it makes me weary to read them. I also know that most people are going to do what they want to do, no matter what you tell them. When asking your opinion, they are often asking for your confirmation.

This is a place that of course has many commonalities with life experiences on the Mainland and other places, but much that is unique to here. Also, Hawaii Island is not Oahu.

All I will say, and I say this very strongly, please come and rent for a while. Find out if this is really the place for you and your wife, without the possibility of a huge financial hit. Visits don't cut it, you have to be doing the day to day for at least a year, or even more, before you will be able to figure this out.
Apparently not a problem. The OP posted this yesterday morning:

We have lived in Hawaii before for years so this is a normal move for us, nothing special.
The OP is talking of moving to Hawaii Island aka the Big Island. It is worlds away from Oahu, where I had presumed he had lived before. It is doubtful he would have been based here, as we have only a minute military presence compared to Oahu.
You are correct.
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HomerJ
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HomerJ »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am Just thinking outside the box, have you considered west coast of USA? Meaning somewhere outside of Portland OR in either OR or WA?

Portland itself is prohibitively expensive, but if you get out of commuter range-ish, better. You have good local schools. You have nice people. You have a mild climate-- yes lots of rain, but a mild winter. You could do holidays in Hawaii twice a year? Main issue would seem to be whether one can take the grey skies.

A poster here ( texasdiver ) made that move (to a suburb of Portland but in WA I believe) and seems very happy.
Actually, we looked at the west coast HEAVILY, from San Diego to Sequim, WA, and found issue after issue that made those locations a non-starter for us. We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
What about the Caribbean? Like Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands?

Or lots of cheaper places if you're willing to leave the U.S.
Admiral
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Admiral »

HomerJ wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:42 am
SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am Just thinking outside the box, have you considered west coast of USA? Meaning somewhere outside of Portland OR in either OR or WA?

Portland itself is prohibitively expensive, but if you get out of commuter range-ish, better. You have good local schools. You have nice people. You have a mild climate-- yes lots of rain, but a mild winter. You could do holidays in Hawaii twice a year? Main issue would seem to be whether one can take the grey skies.

A poster here ( texasdiver ) made that move (to a suburb of Portland but in WA I believe) and seems very happy.
Actually, we looked at the west coast HEAVILY, from San Diego to Sequim, WA, and found issue after issue that made those locations a non-starter for us. We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
What about the Caribbean? Like Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands?

Or lots of cheaper places if you're willing to leave the U.S.
+1. Costa Rica fits the bill and is probably easier and possibly cheaper to get to and from. Panama City is another idea. PR and USVI are not places I would choose to move in the near future.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HomerJ »

Admiral wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:50 amPR and USVI are not places I would choose to move in the near future.
I bet land is lot cheaper right now, and the OP wants to live off the grid anyway, so he may not care that 40% of Puerto Rico still doesn't have any electricity.
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MP123
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by MP123 »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:17 am
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:37 pm
vested1 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm Or more for your money in Keaau, although with a bit more rain.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/9 ... 5_zm/1_fr/
Keaau is VOG city. Nearly warm volcano land. Thin topsoil. Some areas can't get property insurance if it's in a volcano zone.
The low property values , relatively speaking, in "Hawaiian Acres", Keaau, etc, etc, attract folks from afar. Similar to land in Vegas in some parts.
:D
Yes, we would like to rent at first since there are so many micro-climates on the island from desert to rain forest, high vog and low vog areas. We will have to look into the specifics of the VA loan and hopefully we can buy AFTER I retire and not be forced to buy before. I'm pretty sure that I would not be able to get a conventional loan after retirement.
Good plan to rent first especially if you're planning to have a homestead. The times I've been to the Big Island I've been amazed at the different microclimates. Windward/leeward makes a big difference but even just a few miles one way or the other gets very different climate. And then there's elevation changes too, the top of Mauna Loa gets snow sometimes.

Finding the right spot might take a while, people have been building in the nice spots for quite some time.

I agree with Sandtrap that Kona/Captain Cook is nice but might be more expensive too.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

HomerJ wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:42 am
SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am Just thinking outside the box, have you considered west coast of USA? Meaning somewhere outside of Portland OR in either OR or WA?

Portland itself is prohibitively expensive, but if you get out of commuter range-ish, better. You have good local schools. You have nice people. You have a mild climate-- yes lots of rain, but a mild winter. You could do holidays in Hawaii twice a year? Main issue would seem to be whether one can take the grey skies.

A poster here ( texasdiver ) made that move (to a suburb of Portland but in WA I believe) and seems very happy.
Actually, we looked at the west coast HEAVILY, from San Diego to Sequim, WA, and found issue after issue that made those locations a non-starter for us. We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
What about the Caribbean? Like Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands?

Or lots of cheaper places if you're willing to leave the U.S.
One of the amazing things about Big Island is that is has 11 of the worlds 13 climate zones, which is not only very unusual, but it helps make it a great place to not get bored. Plus, it's big, when compared to other islands. Having mountains and an ocean nearby is an important part of our lifestyle. Also, for family reasons, it is better to be on the west coast vs the east coast.

We did consider the Azores for awhile. It's far enough out there that it works for us, but at the end of the day, we like what Hawaii offers more, and with our military benefits, being in the states is more advantageous for medical care.
Last edited by SurferLife on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:28 am
SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am . . . We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
Okay. I get it now. :oops:
This information changes the "quantifiables" you introduced before.

Look along this route.
(Second Choice)
From Kamuela to Honokaa, along the from Paauilo, to Lapahoehoe to Pepeekeo. There are new areas opening up. Prior cane fields on the mauka (mountain side) of the highway have great views and fertile soil. If you can afford around Pepeekeo, you will like it a lot. Forever views, great land, not ghetto or shady. Middle class to upper. Acreage can be had instead of small sq foot. Closer to Hilo and it will be rain and rain and rain. Upper hilo is nice but can be pricey.
(Third Choice)
From Hilo to the Volcano (Puna) gets cheaper and cheaper with acreage available though pretty wet in some areas. Think "Fern Gully" and fog.
Puna, Hawaiian Acres, are all on that end. Some roads go to "shady" areas. Mountain View is nice. Think, "horses". But, again, wet n fog.
Also, very far from more modern stores and shopping.
(First Choice)
From Kona to Captain Cook, is nice. Weather is moderate. Lots are smaller. Lot's of coffee farms, etc. You may like this better.

Here's a link to the places to surf: Kona side is nice. IMHO best beaches and surf on the Big Island year round. Weather is good. Not so rainy and surf is not so "hammered" as other parts of the Big Island.
https://wannasurf.com/spot/North_Americ ... index.html

You can find a nice cottage on good growing land in areas that are "off the grid" if that is to your liking. Catchment water, solar, etc. There are tons of folks with a more "natural lifestyle" on the Big Island. Of all the islands, IMHO, it is the place for this. I have friends and family in Mountain View, Pepeekeo, Puna, Kamuela, Waikii, Waikaloa, etc.

Highly suggest you rent a place in Hilo and live there for awhile and explore all that side as though you were living there permanently. Same for Kamuela and Kona. There is a different local "culture" (vibe)" in these areas and you might be happier in the long run finding your "spot".

mahalo,
j :D
This is very helpful. We are in the initial stages of information gathering for living locations on the Big Island, and we will be going for a month this summer. In looking at a annual rainfall map of the island, the Capt Cook area seems at a glance to be an ideal location for multiple reasons. We do like the sun, a lot, and do not want to be in a potential lava zone. I'm aware that the whole island is a lava zone essentially, but some areas are more prone to it than others, with the south/southeast seeming to be the highest. I am concerned about being near Hilo and the amount of rain, but doesn't it come mostly at night? That could change things. We will really have to explore and see what we like and what works for our family... and most importantly, what is in our price range.

In reading about others who have lived on acreage on the island, it seems that you can make the mistake of having too much land. Because everything grows year-round, and quickly, it's easy to get overwhelmed in the duties of caring for your property. I'm hoping that with a perennial crop system (fruit/nut trees), that this can be somewhat reduced. In this regard, smaller lots may be a better fit for us.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

I thought about buying 3 acres in the Big Island, back in 2001 and 2002 time frame, it was my dream to live off the grid. Back then it was only about $20k for 3 acres. But after doing more reasearch, I decided not to pursue it. Cheap housing attracts different kind of people. Drugs were my concern. I’m glad I didn’t pursue it because I’m not sure how I would handle living in the grid with aging. What I could easily do years ago, might not be possible today. Our doctors are less than one mile away. We now can walk every where to get groceries. Worse yet, if immobile, I can order Amazon fresh.
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MP123
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by MP123 »

Another area I've always liked is Waimea and Parker Ranch. Up in the hills and not at all beachy but probably great for a homestead. Reminds me a bit of Northern California.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Sandtrap »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:28 am
SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 am . . . We desire to have a lifestyle where we can have a homestead, grow our own food, harvest water, have animals, etc... You can do this everywhere so long as you're not in most HOAs, but states really can make it more difficult than it should be with the amount of restrictions by state and local govts. Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, makes this a dream location for this lifestyle as the growing season is year-round, you can grow unbelievable things that you'd never be able to buy on the mainland, and there are few restrictions. Throw in a beach and mountains, another requirement, and it meets all our needs. Lastly, for us there is a thing about being too close to family... :happy

We really didn't want to choose Hawaii, and it wasn't our first choice initially, but with everything we want to do, it's the best fit for us and eventually became our first choice by a wide margin.
Okay. I get it now. :oops:
This information changes the "quantifiables" you introduced before.

Look along this route.
(Second Choice)
From Kamuela to Honokaa, along the from Paauilo, to Lapahoehoe to Pepeekeo. There are new areas opening up. Prior cane fields on the mauka (mountain side) of the highway have great views and fertile soil. If you can afford around Pepeekeo, you will like it a lot. Forever views, great land, not ghetto or shady. Middle class to upper. Acreage can be had instead of small sq foot. Closer to Hilo and it will be rain and rain and rain. Upper hilo is nice but can be pricey.
(Third Choice)
From Hilo to the Volcano (Puna) gets cheaper and cheaper with acreage available though pretty wet in some areas. Think "Fern Gully" and fog.
Puna, Hawaiian Acres, are all on that end. Some roads go to "shady" areas. Mountain View is nice. Think, "horses". But, again, wet n fog.
Also, very far from more modern stores and shopping.
(First Choice)
From Kona to Captain Cook, is nice. Weather is moderate. Lots are smaller. Lot's of coffee farms, etc. You may like this better.

Here's a link to the places to surf: Kona side is nice. IMHO best beaches and surf on the Big Island year round. Weather is good. Not so rainy and surf is not so "hammered" as other parts of the Big Island.
https://wannasurf.com/spot/North_Americ ... index.html

You can find a nice cottage on good growing land in areas that are "off the grid" if that is to your liking. Catchment water, solar, etc. There are tons of folks with a more "natural lifestyle" on the Big Island. Of all the islands, IMHO, it is the place for this. I have friends and family in Mountain View, Pepeekeo, Puna, Kamuela, Waikii, Waikaloa, etc.

Highly suggest you rent a place in Hilo and live there for awhile and explore all that side as though you were living there permanently. Same for Kamuela and Kona. There is a different local "culture" (vibe)" in these areas and you might be happier in the long run finding your "spot".

mahalo,
j :D
This is very helpful. We are in the initial stages of information gathering for living locations on the Big Island, and we will be going for a month this summer. In looking at a annual rainfall map of the island, the Capt Cook area seems at a glance to be an ideal location for multiple reasons. We do like the sun, a lot, and do not want to be in a potential lava zone. I'm aware that the whole island is a lava zone essentially, but some areas are more prone to it than others, with the south/southeast seeming to be the highest. I am concerned about being near Hilo and the amount of rain, but doesn't it come mostly at night? That could change things. We will really have to explore and see what we like and what works for our family... and most importantly, what is in our price range.

In reading about others who have lived on acreage on the island, it seems that you can make the mistake of having too much land. Because everything grows year-round, and quickly, it's easy to get overwhelmed in the duties of caring for your property. I'm hoping that with a perennial crop system (fruit/nut trees), that this can be somewhat reduced. In this regard, smaller lots may be a better fit for us.
Kona to Waikaloa to Kawaihae. . .dry dry dry
Kona to Captain Cook and a bit beyond, "culture friendly", good climate, sun, beach, surf, sand, modern stores in kona. This is where Kona Coffee came from, and is ideal for trees and fruit. Lot's are reasonable.
Kamuela to honokaa to hilo to puna side. . . wet wet wet , rain, more rain, cloudy, windy which is why it's called the "Windward Side". Modern stores are in Kona
Kamuela, if you can afford it, very nice. (my favorite place on the planet). 'Paniolo Country". . like Makawao on Maui.
Puna zone. . . drugs. . . depending on area. . . . far from stores and modern stores. Any lava land has very little topsoil because it's new land. Maybe 4-10 inches of dirt on top of solid lava crust. Lava areas also have hollow spots to fall or step into, and very very sharp.
I wouldn't worry about too much land. It would cost many many millions to own too much land. :D
Hawaii No Ka Oi
j :D
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
HIinvestor
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HIinvestor »

Be sure you have a plan B in case things don’t work out and you and wife could get jobs and find another place you want to live. Good luck!
CnC
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by CnC »

Last critique. Not going to say you can or can't, you want to and seem to be willing to make it work.

I'm not versed in us military pensions, but what sort of shape would your wife be in if you happen to pass away in the next 10-15 years. It may be unlikely but it's something to think about and perhaps purchase life insurance to cover your family until your children are old enough to move out.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

CnC wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 pm Last critique. Not going to say you can or can't, you want to and seem to be willing to make it work.

I'm not versed in us military pensions, but what sort of shape would your wife be in if you happen to pass away in the next 10-15 years. It may be unlikely but it's something to think about and perhaps purchase life insurance to cover your family until your children are old enough to move out.
Yes, we have planned for this with term life insurance. In addition to that, she would get half my pension for the rest of her life. If I were to die, she'd actually be in a better financial position than having me alive. :shock: Perhaps I bought too much insurance.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

HIinvestor wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:23 pm Be sure you have a plan B in case things don’t work out and you and wife could get jobs and find another place you want to live. Good luck!
I'm planning for the worst-case financial scenario, which is us not working again. The truth is, my wife wants to do something. She's a lawyer by trade, but currently a SAHM that is ready to hand that task over to me. I imagine she will find something to do, be it teaching at the university or something. While we won't "need" the income, an extra 20k/yr would really be nice, and I think she could do that easily. For me, I'll probably sell some of what we grow, or have some kind of "farm" business. It's income we're not planning on, but will probably happen eventually. I can't imagine us not earning anything for the next 20-30 years at our age. Yes, it's not "retirement" in the traditional sense since we'd be working, but it's retirement for us since we'd get to do what we want to do and not have to worry about income. That has always been the goal; have enough money that we can choose what we want to do in life.
HIinvestor
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HIinvestor »

Jobs in HI on the Big Island (including for attorneys) are much lower than you may expect. If you folks are considering this as a backup, that would be important to explore as well. She’d have to take and pass the HI Bar as well. We have a huge # of attorneys in our state.
CnC
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by CnC »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm
HIinvestor wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:23 pm Be sure you have a plan B in case things don’t work out and you and wife could get jobs and find another place you want to live. Good luck!
I'm planning for the worst-case financial scenario, which is us not working again. The truth is, my wife wants to do something. She's a lawyer by trade, but currently a SAHM that is ready to hand that task over to me. I imagine she will find something to do, be it teaching at the university or something. While we won't "need" the income, an extra 20k/yr would really be nice, and I think she could do that easily. For me, I'll probably sell some of what we grow, or have some kind of "farm" business. It's income we're not planning on, but will probably happen eventually. I can't imagine us not earning anything for the next 20-30 years at our age. Yes, it's not "retirement" in the traditional sense since we'd be working, but it's retirement for us since we'd get to do what we want to do and not have to worry about income. That has always been the goal; have enough money that we can choose what we want to do in life.


Honestly that makes me feel better about your situation. You are mostly transitioning from a SAHM to a SAHD with a very healthy pension and a wife working at least part time.

That convinced me that your situation is more doable than I first thought. (saying that there was a decent chance your educated early 40's wife would choose to return to the workforce would probably have led to much less doom and gloom)
3504PIR
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by 3504PIR »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:48 am
SurferLife wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:50 pm
Pajamas wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:27 pm
SurferLife wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:56 am retire in Dallas (really??? I live just south of Dallas now; it's awful), what will I do all day
I always find it semi-amusing when people recommend moving to a low-cost area instead of answering the questions being asked about a high-cost area but you have to admit that suggesting Tennessee or Texas instead of Hawaii as has been done in this thread is absolutely hilarious as there is really no comparison.
At least there is surfing in Texas.
I've seen it and I wouldn't call it surfing.
You surf and get disability pay?
I do - although I find myself kayaking more than surfing these days as the surf on my side of the island is pretty brutal on an aging body (I'm in my mid 50s). I am a 90% disabled retired infantry officer. Most of my 90% is from TBI, the rest from hearing and a shoulder injury. My memory and mental capacity is a lot less than it used to be, but I am physically fit, 5'10", 170 lbs and do some form of difficult physical activity at least 4 times a week year round because I'm in Hawaii...(surf, kayak, paddle board, cycle or hike).
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

CnC wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:25 pm That convinced me that your situation is more doable than I first thought. (saying that there was a decent chance your educated early 40's wife would choose to return to the workforce would probably have led to much less doom and gloom)
Yes, but employment for my wife is hypothetical at this point so we can't count on it and shouldn't plan for that. Also, she may find something she loves doing by volunteering, so she could earn anywhere from $0-$100k, there's really no telling; though I don't see her pursuing law, but you never know. As for the person who spoke about lower incomes in Hawaii, we understand that.
HIinvestor
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HIinvestor »

Did you read the AUW Alice report that I linked in a prior post on this thread. It’s really important to know what you are proposing for yourself, wife and the two kids you currently have plus any additions. The Report is VERY informative in terms of costs in Hawaii.

How do you see the numbers in the report applying to your situation?
PugetSoundguy
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by PugetSoundguy »

Hey SurferLife:

It sounds like you are approaching this big decision in a very methodical and sober way. I know we all wish you and your family the very best and I think I speak for others when I say it would be great to get some updates from you as you approach your retirement. Many of us will be confronting or are confronting some of the issues you describe and hearing about your progress could be very helpful. Plus your particular plan just sounds so interesting it would be nice to hear updates.

I'm curious about your asset allocation as you approach retirement, particularly for the after-tax portion of your portfolio since you will need that money fairly quickly it seems.

Thanks and good luck!
Topic Author
SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

HIinvestor wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:10 pm Did you read the AUW Alice report that I linked in a prior post on this thread. It’s really important to know what you are proposing for yourself, wife and the two kids you currently have plus any additions. The Report is VERY informative in terms of costs in Hawaii.

How do you see the numbers in the report applying to your situation?
I did look at the report, and I had wished they went into more detail with the numbers. The demographic fits us perfectly, so that's nice for comparison, but our lifestyle is completely different.

Housing: Ours will probably be slightly higher, but then MUCH higher once we buy
Childcare: $0. Though I didn't see where child expenses weren't covered.
Food: Our food will be close to what they listed, but eventually, much lower since we hope to be growing much of it and if we eat out we'll eat the local fare.
Transportation: Will be lower since our cars are paid off and we won't be commuting to work.
Health care: Much lower, close to zero compared to the $635/mo they listed in the report.
Taxes: Lower since military pensions are not taxed by the state and the disability isn't taxed at all.
Miscellaneous: Would likely be higher for us.

Overall, I think with that list that we'd be lower, up until we buy a house, and then our expenses skyrocket.
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SurferLife
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

PugetSoundguy wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:32 pm Hey SurferLife:

It sounds like you are approaching this big decision in a very methodical and sober way. I know we all wish you and your family the very best and I think I speak for others when I say it would be great to get some updates from you as you approach your retirement. Many of us will be confronting or are confronting some of the issues you describe and hearing about your progress could be very helpful. Plus your particular plan just sounds so interesting it would be nice to hear updates.

I'm curious about your asset allocation as you approach retirement, particularly for the after-tax portion of your portfolio since you will need that money fairly quickly it seems.

Thanks and good luck!
Kind words, thank you. Yes, I think I'll append this thread with updates as we make progress on our journey. It will be interesting to see, even for us!

As for asset allocation, I had asked in this thread and didn't get a response, but I'm not quite sure what we want our AA to be. Right now 65% of our taxable is in a 1% savings account since we thought we might retire this year, with the other 20% and 15% in I bonds and an S&P index fund. Our retirement accounts are 70/30. I woudn't mind some suggestions/analysis on the AA for those retirement funds and taxable funds once we buy the house and start our Roth Ladder. I expect I'll hold back at least 100-150k so that we have a 5 yr cushion before our roth ladder takes effect.
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Nords
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Nords »

Good grief, folks, after reading the first dozen responses to this thread I wondered whether this is the Bogleheads forum or Mr. Money Mustache? Why so much negativity? Where’s the support on figuring out how to make it work?

With a poster name like SurferLife, the question is not “if” or “when” they’ll move to Hawaii but rather “how”.

I’m a little surprised by the number of posters who have no experience with the Big Island (let alone recent experience) or with military pensions… yet still have an opinion. Your uninformed speculation does not facilitate a financial analysis.

Those of you who uttered pejoratives about the schools and drugs are either not familiar with Mainland life or with Hawaii life. If you think Hawaii schools are bad then you’re 20 years out of date and/or lack the experience which comes with integrating a dozen cultures (and over 200 official languages) into a public school. If you think your neighborhoods have less drugs than Hawaii then your assertions simply lack an appreciation of the pervasiveness of meth and opioids.

SurferLife, let me know if you’ve already e-mailed me. I just got back from freezin’ Florida and I’m still digging out of e-mail and social media. For now, though, let me try to anticipate some of the questions.

We’ve lived on Oahu for >28 years and we’ve raised our daughter here. (After she finishes her active duty she’s probably “coming home”-- with a spouse and perhaps our grandkids-- in the next five years.) We have friends on the Big Island and several favorite places there. If we weren’t living on Oahu, we’d be on the Big Island. Here’s our relocation thoughts.

First, Tripler is one of the reasons we chose to settle on Oahu. Another reason is the Level One trauma care offered by Queens (and possibly by Tripler). The Big Island is growing those features, and their connectivity is getting better every day, and air evac can save your life too. A Big Island vehicle accident or an emergency appendectomy will probably go just fine and you’ll never leave the island. However (like all of Hawaii’s islands) the Big Island is short of VA clinics and dialysis clinics and probably always will be. Stay healthy. Find a good civilian clinic, in addition to the VA. You don’t want to have a health condition requiring a weekly flight coupon for treatment that can only be found on Oahu. If you or your kids have chronic health conditions now then try to locate a specialist before you move to the Big Island, and then see if there’s a good fit. You mention a VA disability rating, and all of the islands are acutely short of physical therapists & orthopedic surgeons. Let’s not get into how I know that.

Second, I’d hold off the homebuilding. Most of the people who’ve built a home have valued their experience (not necessarily enjoyed it) but I don’t know many people who’ve repeated the new-home experience. I strongly recommend renting on the island for two reasons: making sure your entire family really enjoys living there (which is highly likely) and researching the heck out of the neighborhoods for a bargain.

Another reason to hold off the homebuilding: construction costs. Zoning restrictions and code enhancements and a general shortage of skilled trades have driven the construction costs higher than usual, and it’s going to last for a while. (It’s very bad on Oahu, where light rail has sucked up much of the trades labor and the island has a huge housing shortage.) If you have the skills to build your own then you’ll do well, but this is a terrible time to hire a new construction contractor. You’ll do much better with a bargain used home that’s already encountered its 10-year material crisis.

Finally there’s non-temporary storage of household goods for military retirees. The Joint Travel Regs give you a year, and you might be able to extend that with a waiver. Even so the cost of renting for a year and executing a second move will be far less than the cost of paying full retail for new. It’s also a lot cheaper than leaping into a new neighborhood without researching the heck out of the market and patiently waiting for a distressed seller.

A decade ago I would’ve hesitated to move to the Big Island due to the lack of retail stores & products. Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Amazon have largely taken care of that issue. Be aware that Amazon Prime is not really very Prime in Hawaii, and shipping time can be the inverse proportion to the urgency of your need.

Military veterans have a special set of acculturation issues wherever they leave the service. They try to find their “forever” home just like a PCS transfer (and during terminal leave), despite research showing that over half of all vets move to a new place within two years of leaving the military. They relocate in the middle of their VA disability claims process, which means that their C&P exams are either garbled or re-started. They struggle to get a mortgage because they don’t have enough income… or two years of tax returns for their retirement. They miss the military camaraderie, although Hawaii has a very strong one and you’ll probably be fine on that issue. They get restless 3-4 years after moving into their next home because “it’s time to transfer”. You may be ready to handle these issues, but you & your family should be aware of the emotions behind them.

You’ve probably lived all over the world and you probably understand Hawaii’s longer-term issues, but let me re-iterate them:
- Elderly Mainland parents needing your help… and possibly your quarterly visits. I spent over six years managing my (Mainland) father’s finances from Oahu, and I’m glad I wasn’t his guardian.
- Young adults going to a Mainland college, starting a Mainland career, starting a Mainland family, and struggling to return to the islands. Now you’re commuting to your grandkids.
- Missing your Mainland… whatever: sports, highways, mountains, snow, weather seasons, cuisine. Most of your Mainland/overseas culture will be replaced with Hawaii culture. Nobody in Hawaii particularly cares where you came from, and nobody wants to hear about it either. These issues may not apply to your situation but they happen for many.
- Rock fever. I’m a submariner and I only understand the theory, but it’s very real for some residents.
- Space A military-retiree travel works a heckuva lot better from Oahu than the neighbor islands. (I’ve spent the time in the Hickam passenger terminal talking with folks from the neighbor islands.) However you can probably travel-hack the commercial flights out of Big Island airports.
- Are either you or your spouse contemplating a bridge career? If so, let me know the details and I’ll see with whom we can network.
- Are you likely to get offered a consulting gig, part-time or full-time? Would that involve Mainland travel, even if it’s largely remote work?
- Hurricanes. They’re not tornadoes, earthquakes, wildfires, or mudslides, but they do require a two-week survival plan. The Big Island’s Puna district is the hurricane’s first landfall after they form in the Eastern Pacific.
- Vog & pollen. I have Big Island friends who relocated to… Minnesota… for their respiratory comfort.

Your finances look fine, especially if you rent and house-hack. You’ll adapt to Hawaii cuisine, clothing, and other cultural practices which have a reasonable cost of living. Your pension’s COLA (and cheap health insurance) will take care of a lot of the budget surprises. Regardless of the school district, your kids will understand that education is your priority and they’ll make it theirs. Did I mention that surfing is now a state high-school sport?

If you’re not already doing so, you should subscribe to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald and start learning the neighborhood details.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

I’m not sure of your math behind your VA disability rating, but let me know if you have questions about Concurrent Retirement and Disability Pay. More veteran’s info here:
http://dod.hawaii.gov/ovs/benefits-and-services/

Let me know how I can help. My spouse and I probably need to take a prolonged backyard vacation in Kapoho Beach again to do some research...
* | * | Please see my profile for my next book. I don't read every post, so please PM or e-mail me to get my attention.
HIinvestor
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HIinvestor »

OP, since you are going to buy/build a house, your budget projections should assume this instead of a reduced rate for a rental you don’t want to live in long term.
Valuethinker
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Valuethinker »

Nords wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:23 pm Good grief, folks, after reading the first dozen responses to this thread I wondered whether this is the Bogleheads forum or Mr. Money Mustache? Why so much negativity? Where’s the support on figuring out how to make it work?

With a poster name like SurferLife, the question is not “if” or “when” they’ll move to Hawaii but rather “how”.

I’m a little surprised by the number of posters who have no experience with the Big Island (let alone recent experience) or with military pensions… yet still have an opinion. Your uninformed speculation does not facilitate a financial analysis.

Those of you who uttered pejoratives about the schools and drugs are either not familiar with Mainland life or with Hawaii life. If you think Hawaii schools are bad then you’re 20 years out of date and/or lack the experience which comes with integrating a dozen cultures (and over 200 official languages) into a public school. If you think your neighborhoods have less drugs than Hawaii then your assertions simply lack an appreciation of the pervasiveness of meth and opioids.

SurferLife, let me know if you’ve already e-mailed me. I just got back from freezin’ Florida and I’m still digging out of e-mail and social media. For now, though, let me try to anticipate some of the questions.

We’ve lived on Oahu for >28 years and we’ve raised our daughter here. (After she finishes her active duty she’s probably “coming home”-- with a spouse and perhaps our grandkids-- in the next five years.) We have friends on the Big Island and several favorite places there. If we weren’t living on Oahu, we’d be on the Big Island. Here’s our relocation thoughts.

First, Tripler is one of the reasons we chose to settle on Oahu. Another reason is the Level One trauma care offered by Queens (and possibly by Tripler). The Big Island is growing those features, and their connectivity is getting better every day, and air evac can save your life too. A Big Island vehicle accident or an emergency appendectomy will probably go just fine and you’ll never leave the island. However (like all of Hawaii’s islands) the Big Island is short of VA clinics and dialysis clinics and probably always will be. Stay healthy. Find a good civilian clinic, in addition to the VA. You don’t want to have a health condition requiring a weekly flight coupon for treatment that can only be found on Oahu. If you or your kids have chronic health conditions now then try to locate a specialist before you move to the Big Island, and then see if there’s a good fit. You mention a VA disability rating, and all of the islands are acutely short of physical therapists & orthopedic surgeons. Let’s not get into how I know that.

Second, I’d hold off the homebuilding. Most of the people who’ve built a home have valued their experience (not necessarily enjoyed it) but I don’t know many people who’ve repeated the new-home experience. I strongly recommend renting on the island for two reasons: making sure your entire family really enjoys living there (which is highly likely) and researching the heck out of the neighborhoods for a bargain.

Another reason to hold off the homebuilding: construction costs. Zoning restrictions and code enhancements and a general shortage of skilled trades have driven the construction costs higher than usual, and it’s going to last for a while. (It’s very bad on Oahu, where light rail has sucked up much of the trades labor and the island has a huge housing shortage.) If you have the skills to build your own then you’ll do well, but this is a terrible time to hire a new construction contractor. You’ll do much better with a bargain used home that’s already encountered its 10-year material crisis.

Finally there’s non-temporary storage of household goods for military retirees. The Joint Travel Regs give you a year, and you might be able to extend that with a waiver. Even so the cost of renting for a year and executing a second move will be far less than the cost of paying full retail for new. It’s also a lot cheaper than leaping into a new neighborhood without researching the heck out of the market and patiently waiting for a distressed seller.

A decade ago I would’ve hesitated to move to the Big Island due to the lack of retail stores & products. Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Amazon have largely taken care of that issue. Be aware that Amazon Prime is not really very Prime in Hawaii, and shipping time can be the inverse proportion to the urgency of your need.

Military veterans have a special set of acculturation issues wherever they leave the service. They try to find their “forever” home just like a PCS transfer (and during terminal leave), despite research showing that over half of all vets move to a new place within two years of leaving the military. They relocate in the middle of their VA disability claims process, which means that their C&P exams are either garbled or re-started. They struggle to get a mortgage because they don’t have enough income… or two years of tax returns for their retirement. They miss the military camaraderie, although Hawaii has a very strong one and you’ll probably be fine on that issue. They get restless 3-4 years after moving into their next home because “it’s time to transfer”. You may be ready to handle these issues, but you & your family should be aware of the emotions behind them.

You’ve probably lived all over the world and you probably understand Hawaii’s longer-term issues, but let me re-iterate them:
- Elderly Mainland parents needing your help… and possibly your quarterly visits. I spent over six years managing my (Mainland) father’s finances from Oahu, and I’m glad I wasn’t his guardian.
- Young adults going to a Mainland college, starting a Mainland career, starting a Mainland family, and struggling to return to the islands. Now you’re commuting to your grandkids.
- Missing your Mainland… whatever: sports, highways, mountains, snow, weather seasons, cuisine. Most of your Mainland/overseas culture will be replaced with Hawaii culture. Nobody in Hawaii particularly cares where you came from, and nobody wants to hear about it either. These issues may not apply to your situation but they happen for many.
- Rock fever. I’m a submariner and I only understand the theory, but it’s very real for some residents.
- Space A military-retiree travel works a heckuva lot better from Oahu than the neighbor islands. (I’ve spent the time in the Hickam passenger terminal talking with folks from the neighbor islands.) However you can probably travel-hack the commercial flights out of Big Island airports.
- Are either you or your spouse contemplating a bridge career? If so, let me know the details and I’ll see with whom we can network.
- Are you likely to get offered a consulting gig, part-time or full-time? Would that involve Mainland travel, even if it’s largely remote work?
- Hurricanes. They’re not tornadoes, earthquakes, wildfires, or mudslides, but they do require a two-week survival plan. The Big Island’s Puna district is the hurricane’s first landfall after they form in the Eastern Pacific.
- Vog & pollen. I have Big Island friends who relocated to… Minnesota… for their respiratory comfort.

Your finances look fine, especially if you rent and house-hack. You’ll adapt to Hawaii cuisine, clothing, and other cultural practices which have a reasonable cost of living. Your pension’s COLA (and cheap health insurance) will take care of a lot of the budget surprises. Regardless of the school district, your kids will understand that education is your priority and they’ll make it theirs. Did I mention that surfing is now a state high-school sport?

If you’re not already doing so, you should subscribe to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald and start learning the neighborhood details.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

I’m not sure of your math behind your VA disability rating, but let me know if you have questions about Concurrent Retirement and Disability Pay. More veteran’s info here:
http://dod.hawaii.gov/ovs/benefits-and-services/

Let me know how I can help. My spouse and I probably need to take a prolonged backyard vacation in Kapoho Beach again to do some research...
I know nothing about Hawaii, let alone veterans' retirement. From where I grew up, people move to the West Coast of Canada, which is kind of like Hawaii ( ;-) except for a few differences in weather and water temperature ;-)). So Oregon or Washington State sounds like heaven to me ;-).

I just wanted to say that the post above is why I value this Forum - so much knowledge and well thought out advice & perspective, freely given, whatever the problem is.
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HueyLD
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by HueyLD »

Ditto to Valuethinker’s comments above.

I learned so much about Hawaii here that I had to get rid of all my erroneous perceptions about this wonderful and beautiful state.

And it is obvious that merely spending a couple of weeks vacationing in a location doesn’t make one an expert of the suitability for a permanent residency in that location.
dekecarver
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by dekecarver »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:59 am
Nords wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:23 pm Good grief, folks, after reading the first dozen responses to this thread I wondered whether this is the Bogleheads forum or Mr. Money Mustache? Why so much negativity? Where’s the support on figuring out how to make it work?

With a poster name like SurferLife, the question is not “if” or “when” they’ll move to Hawaii but rather “how”.

I’m a little surprised by the number of posters who have no experience with the Big Island (let alone recent experience) or with military pensions… yet still have an opinion. Your uninformed speculation does not facilitate a financial analysis.

Those of you who uttered pejoratives about the schools and drugs are either not familiar with Mainland life or with Hawaii life. If you think Hawaii schools are bad then you’re 20 years out of date and/or lack the experience which comes with integrating a dozen cultures (and over 200 official languages) into a public school. If you think your neighborhoods have less drugs than Hawaii then your assertions simply lack an appreciation of the pervasiveness of meth and opioids.

SurferLife, let me know if you’ve already e-mailed me. I just got back from freezin’ Florida and I’m still digging out of e-mail and social media. For now, though, let me try to anticipate some of the questions.

We’ve lived on Oahu for >28 years and we’ve raised our daughter here. (After she finishes her active duty she’s probably “coming home”-- with a spouse and perhaps our grandkids-- in the next five years.) We have friends on the Big Island and several favorite places there. If we weren’t living on Oahu, we’d be on the Big Island. Here’s our relocation thoughts.

First, Tripler is one of the reasons we chose to settle on Oahu. Another reason is the Level One trauma care offered by Queens (and possibly by Tripler). The Big Island is growing those features, and their connectivity is getting better every day, and air evac can save your life too. A Big Island vehicle accident or an emergency appendectomy will probably go just fine and you’ll never leave the island. However (like all of Hawaii’s islands) the Big Island is short of VA clinics and dialysis clinics and probably always will be. Stay healthy. Find a good civilian clinic, in addition to the VA. You don’t want to have a health condition requiring a weekly flight coupon for treatment that can only be found on Oahu. If you or your kids have chronic health conditions now then try to locate a specialist before you move to the Big Island, and then see if there’s a good fit. You mention a VA disability rating, and all of the islands are acutely short of physical therapists & orthopedic surgeons. Let’s not get into how I know that.

Second, I’d hold off the homebuilding. Most of the people who’ve built a home have valued their experience (not necessarily enjoyed it) but I don’t know many people who’ve repeated the new-home experience. I strongly recommend renting on the island for two reasons: making sure your entire family really enjoys living there (which is highly likely) and researching the heck out of the neighborhoods for a bargain.

Another reason to hold off the homebuilding: construction costs. Zoning restrictions and code enhancements and a general shortage of skilled trades have driven the construction costs higher than usual, and it’s going to last for a while. (It’s very bad on Oahu, where light rail has sucked up much of the trades labor and the island has a huge housing shortage.) If you have the skills to build your own then you’ll do well, but this is a terrible time to hire a new construction contractor. You’ll do much better with a bargain used home that’s already encountered its 10-year material crisis.

Finally there’s non-temporary storage of household goods for military retirees. The Joint Travel Regs give you a year, and you might be able to extend that with a waiver. Even so the cost of renting for a year and executing a second move will be far less than the cost of paying full retail for new. It’s also a lot cheaper than leaping into a new neighborhood without researching the heck out of the market and patiently waiting for a distressed seller.

A decade ago I would’ve hesitated to move to the Big Island due to the lack of retail stores & products. Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Amazon have largely taken care of that issue. Be aware that Amazon Prime is not really very Prime in Hawaii, and shipping time can be the inverse proportion to the urgency of your need.

Military veterans have a special set of acculturation issues wherever they leave the service. They try to find their “forever” home just like a PCS transfer (and during terminal leave), despite research showing that over half of all vets move to a new place within two years of leaving the military. They relocate in the middle of their VA disability claims process, which means that their C&P exams are either garbled or re-started. They struggle to get a mortgage because they don’t have enough income… or two years of tax returns for their retirement. They miss the military camaraderie, although Hawaii has a very strong one and you’ll probably be fine on that issue. They get restless 3-4 years after moving into their next home because “it’s time to transfer”. You may be ready to handle these issues, but you & your family should be aware of the emotions behind them.

You’ve probably lived all over the world and you probably understand Hawaii’s longer-term issues, but let me re-iterate them:
- Elderly Mainland parents needing your help… and possibly your quarterly visits. I spent over six years managing my (Mainland) father’s finances from Oahu, and I’m glad I wasn’t his guardian.
- Young adults going to a Mainland college, starting a Mainland career, starting a Mainland family, and struggling to return to the islands. Now you’re commuting to your grandkids.
- Missing your Mainland… whatever: sports, highways, mountains, snow, weather seasons, cuisine. Most of your Mainland/overseas culture will be replaced with Hawaii culture. Nobody in Hawaii particularly cares where you came from, and nobody wants to hear about it either. These issues may not apply to your situation but they happen for many.
- Rock fever. I’m a submariner and I only understand the theory, but it’s very real for some residents.
- Space A military-retiree travel works a heckuva lot better from Oahu than the neighbor islands. (I’ve spent the time in the Hickam passenger terminal talking with folks from the neighbor islands.) However you can probably travel-hack the commercial flights out of Big Island airports.
- Are either you or your spouse contemplating a bridge career? If so, let me know the details and I’ll see with whom we can network.
- Are you likely to get offered a consulting gig, part-time or full-time? Would that involve Mainland travel, even if it’s largely remote work?
- Hurricanes. They’re not tornadoes, earthquakes, wildfires, or mudslides, but they do require a two-week survival plan. The Big Island’s Puna district is the hurricane’s first landfall after they form in the Eastern Pacific.
- Vog & pollen. I have Big Island friends who relocated to… Minnesota… for their respiratory comfort.

Your finances look fine, especially if you rent and house-hack. You’ll adapt to Hawaii cuisine, clothing, and other cultural practices which have a reasonable cost of living. Your pension’s COLA (and cheap health insurance) will take care of a lot of the budget surprises. Regardless of the school district, your kids will understand that education is your priority and they’ll make it theirs. Did I mention that surfing is now a state high-school sport?

If you’re not already doing so, you should subscribe to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald and start learning the neighborhood details.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

I’m not sure of your math behind your VA disability rating, but let me know if you have questions about Concurrent Retirement and Disability Pay. More veteran’s info here:
http://dod.hawaii.gov/ovs/benefits-and-services/

Let me know how I can help. My spouse and I probably need to take a prolonged backyard vacation in Kapoho Beach again to do some research...
I know nothing about Hawaii, let alone veterans' retirement. From where I grew up, people move to the West Coast of Canada, which is kind of like Hawaii ( ;-) except for a few differences in weather and water temperature ;-)). So Oregon or Washington State sounds like heaven to me ;-).

I just wanted to say that the post above is why I value this Forum - so much knowledge and well thought out advice & perspective, freely given, whatever the problem is.
I totally agree! Also, now I know who to PM (lol) when I decide to plan a trip that way, I don't think there is a better travel agent with the insight of some of the posters on this thread. Thank you all!
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Toons
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Toons »

Sure You Can Move To Hawaii.
You Can Do Anything You Want To Do.
Make It Happen.
Enjoy Retirement.
Aloha.



:idea: :idea:
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Pajamas »

SurferLife wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:00 pm Overall, I think with that list that we'd be lower, up until we buy a house, and then our expenses skyrocket.
Housing prices appear to be a critical factor in general in Hawaii, not just for you.

Hawaii has record-low unemployment and it’s not a frozen hellscape. Why are people leaving?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... e-leaving/
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by unclescrooge »

SurferLife wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:00 am Perhaps I should have asked for how do we do the math when it comes to drawing down our accounts most effectively. As far as critiquing our plan, it was more for the financial aspect, not the practical aspect of living on an expensive island with poor schools. However, here are the answers to some of your questions. For those that say "no way can you do this", can you provide the objective analysis as to why? Am I wrong in that I only need to plan to withdraw our accounts until I get to age 70, so 21 years from retirement? FIRECALC gives me a 100% success rate by withdrawing 30k/yr for 21 years, which I think would be enough to supplement our pension.

1. We have lived in Hawaii before for years so this is a normal move for us, nothing special.
2. We will homeschool since schools are bad. Yeah, drugs are a problem as is homelessness, but drugs are also a major problem in rural Montana.
3. We will be covered medically.
4. Understand about not qualifying for a loan after retirement, but we hope to get a loan prior to retiring while we still have the income to qualify. There is also a VA loan, and I'm not sure but perhaps we can still qualify for that after retirement? My disability rating will reduce some of the expenses with a VA loan.
5. Kids have college fully funded through 529 savings and my GI Bill which has been rolled over to them.
6. We have no childcare expenses.
7. We have tracked our expenses. The 75k/yr is adjusted for Hawaii and again, does not include a mortgage payment. We could possibly bring our housing cost down to 700k, so with 300k down, a 400k mortgage? That seems reasonable and affordable with what we have saved. If I'm mistaken, please show me. This is our main issue and my main question. I think we can afford it, but what is the most advantageous way to draw down our funds to pay for it???
Assuming a $700k for 30 years at 3.5%, and guessing $10k in taxes, and $1500 in insurance, you're at $4.1k per month or $49k per year.

Then you have utilities and maintenance. Hawaii is tropical, and in that environment houses require a lot of it. I would estimate 2% a year or about $3k. But this is on average. Home repairs are often lumpy.

So after housing, you're probably left with $1k/month out of your pension.

So the really wisdom is whether you can retire on basically $1 million in investments.

Probably. But you're cutting it close. Any set back, either in the markets or personally, will devastate your plan.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (retirement planning).
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Figuy »

I live on the big island so will offer a different perspective. I still work (remote consulting), but don't work very much. I don't think I'd enjoy working a local job here though with how slow things move (island time).

Your housing cost here can be as much or as little as you wish to spend. Land cost varies all over the place. The cheapest land (and most interesting folks IMO) are in Puna. You really don't need to spend 800k. My spouse and I are building a non-permitted jungle luxury shack (~900 sqft, completely off-grid) for very little money and having a blast doing so. This isn't your typical USA in that regard. 800k will get you a nice house overlooking the ocean here.

The concern I see is your kids and the schools. Hawaii has the worst performing schools in the USA to my knowledge. This needs some context though. These schools aren't terrible in the sense of gang violence or hard-drug use, but in a different cultural sense. There is very little emphasis on academic performance here in far too many families. Truancy rates are unreal. My nephew is in elementary school here and the faculty seems fantastic. However, I can definitely spot which of the kids in his class are going nowhere economically / academically. I don't have any children or I'm not sure we'd stay here with kids. It really depends on who you want your kids to grow up to be.

Personally, I love it here. People are very friendly. We moved from DC and it took me a while to put my guard down and realize that friendly didn't mean someone was out to screw me over...
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by hightower »

I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong. I initially looked at your finances and thought there was "no way" you should be contemplating a move to HI, but after hearing further detail regarding your situation (especially the military medical coverage) and the specifics from some actual locals, I think it's something you can pull off if you're careful. I really appreciated hearing from the people living in Hawaii now. Very helpful info!

Since you mention being interested in a net zero type house and being able to grow your own food (something I too would like to do someday and boy would it be cool to do that in Hawaii), I wanted to remind you that the greenest building is one that's already there. Meaning, it's not very green to knock down and build new or to build new on empty land. Instead, I would recommend you look into retrofitting an existing building with net zero technology.
In Hawaii that shouldn't be too hard considering you don't have to worry about heating and insulation. An off grid solar array with battery storage would be an easy system to add to any house, especially if you have land to use. You could save a lot of money by not buying land and building new and this money could go into retrofitting your house with the technology you need to live off grid or at least net zero.

I'm pretty envious of you for this plan, btw:) Ever since I first visited the big island and got to see all of it's diverse ecosystems I've dreamed of doing exactly what you're wanting to do. I hope someday to get there too!
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Stormbringer »

The median household income on the Big Island is $60K per year. You can absolutely retire there. The only question is whether you can afford the house you are proposing, and others seem to have discussed that at length.

Your posts seem to indicate a high degree of environmental consciousness. One thing to consider is that building a new home will have a significantly higher impact on the environment than refurbishing an existing one.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by TimeRunner »

Amid the idyllic paradise sentiments in this thread, I was reminded of this article about those who commute daily between Hilo and Gilligan's Gulag: http://www.staradvertiser.com/2013/04/2 ... s-the-bus/

Life can be really tough in Hawaii for some hard-working folk too. It's not all kona coffee and a plumeria flower tucked behind a young woman's ear.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by hoops777 »

So why do you need to spend 800,000 on a house?You can get a nice place for a lot less than that on the big island.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by sergeant »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:35 amCaptain and Tennille:. Dual Retirement. Retired university professor. DW. Retired educator. Age 80's. No mortgage. No debts. Home value 1.2 million. They are a little comfortable. Very very frugal. And live well below their means. Sonny is a Boglehead with a large portfolio in a 50/50 allocation. 2 SS, 2 pensions.
They barely get by. Scrimp for 2-3 years to afford a vacation to Asia and Europe. And are very frugal.
You need to give numbers for this to make any sense at all. You say 2 pensions, 2 Social Security check, and a "large" portfolio and they "barely get by" and have to scrimp for 2-3 years to afford an expensive vacation?

And they are in their 80s? So it's not like they have to make their money last for the next 50 years.

Something doesn't add up.
I think he brought down Sonny and Cher's info from above by accident.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by leftcoaster »

3504PIR wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:28 pm
leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:48 am
SurferLife wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:50 pm
Pajamas wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:27 pm

I always find it semi-amusing when people recommend moving to a low-cost area instead of answering the questions being asked about a high-cost area but you have to admit that suggesting Tennessee or Texas instead of Hawaii as has been done in this thread is absolutely hilarious as there is really no comparison.
At least there is surfing in Texas.
I've seen it and I wouldn't call it surfing.
You surf and get disability pay?
I do - although I find myself kayaking more than surfing these days as the surf on my side of the island is pretty brutal on an aging body (I'm in my mid 50s). I am a 90% disabled retired infantry officer. Most of my 90% is from TBI, the rest from hearing and a shoulder injury. My memory and mental capacity is a lot less than it used to be, but I am physically fit, 5'10", 170 lbs and do some form of difficult physical activity at least 4 times a week year round because I'm in Hawaii...(surf, kayak, paddle board, cycle or hike).
Thank you for your service to our country and enjoy your,retirement.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by SurferLife »

Aloha Everyone,
It has been a few years, so I thought I’d post an update.

I retired from the military in mid 2020 just after the start of COVID, and just prior to retiring we purchased a 2-acre property on Kauai with the intent to build. I managed to get a job in Hawaii making 130k, so I’ve been doing that for nearly the last year, and my VA disability was finally adjudicated at a 100% rating, so we are grateful for that. We are working on a different island from where our property is, so I think we will stay here for a few years and build up some cash reserves and pay down the loan (that was always the plan since we knew we’d have to work a bit before getting to Kauai).

Unexpected events:
1. Well, it turns out that COVID increased construction costs significantly, so we might actually be priced-out of building our forever home. Staying where we are at and working an extra year or two may do the trick. In the meantime, we will work to pay down our land loan until we can start our construction loan. We are carrying the loan longer than expected due to COVID, and had hoped to start construction long ago, and I don’t fancy the interest we are paying.

2. Child received a special-needs diagnosis, which was unexpected and simply tragic in so many ways. Not only do we need to stay where we are for increasing funds, but to address all the medical/special needs issues and therapies that will encompass the next 2 years. We are grateful that we have incredible insurance and have all the resources available here to address their needs. Time will tell where that situation goes and it may drive our future decisions depending on how the next 2 years of therapies goes.

3. As mentioned earlier, the 100% VA disability rating was quite shocking, and means about an extra 2k/mo from what we were expecting. This means that if needed, we can move to the mainland and never work again, but the problem is finding a place we want to live. We love Hawaii, but we’ll have to wait and see how the finances shore up over the next 2 years. Regarding my disability, my TBI seems to have caused some cognitive decline, so we will see what happens and how long I can keep doing what I do, which requires significant mental agility.

Our overall net worth has gone up in the last 3 years from 1.1M to 1.4M. The property has increased in value by about 100k, and we have great employment; all good problems to have. Hawaii is more expensive than we thought, but we found housing that is by all accounts, a steal at $2,250/mo (utilities included) for 1600 sq/ft in an AMAZING location. We did talk about just renting here for the next 10 years, but that doesn’t work if you want to have a farm. Still, we love where we are at and my work commute is 15 min with no traffic. Now that I’m out of the military, I work less (a straight 40hrs) and earn more, no complaints. Family issues with in-laws have become strained, so staying in Hawaii and being further from them works out great. :) Hawaii is everything we had hoped it would be, with the exception of costs. I think that if we do end up moving back to the mainland, that we will have gotten Hawaii “out of our system”, but I mean honestly, it’s just so amazing here, provided you have the income to live comfortably. We do try and live frugally, and I think over the next 2 years we will tighten our belts even more to try and build the house. :D
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Firemenot »

What caused you to pick Kauai over the Big Island for land purchase? In your original posts it sounded like you were really sold on the Big Island.
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Re: Can We Retire in Hawaii? Please Critique

Post by Sandtrap »

SurferLife wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:28 pm Aloha Everyone,
It has been a few years, so I thought I’d post an update.

I retired from the military in mid 2020 just after the start of COVID, and just prior to retiring we purchased a 2-acre property on Kauai with the intent to build. I managed to get a job in Hawaii making 130k, so I’ve been doing that for nearly the last year, and my VA disability was finally adjudicated at a 100% rating, so we are grateful for that. We are working on a different island from where our property is, so I think we will stay here for a few years and build up some cash reserves and pay down the loan (that was always the plan since we knew we’d have to work a bit before getting to Kauai).

Unexpected events:
1. Well, it turns out that COVID increased construction costs significantly, so we might actually be priced-out of building our forever home. Staying where we are at and working an extra year or two may do the trick. In the meantime, we will work to pay down our land loan until we can start our construction loan. We are carrying the loan longer than expected due to COVID, and had hoped to start construction long ago, and I don’t fancy the interest we are paying.

2. Child received a special-needs diagnosis, which was unexpected and simply tragic in so many ways. Not only do we need to stay where we are for increasing funds, but to address all the medical/special needs issues and therapies that will encompass the next 2 years. We are grateful that we have incredible insurance and have all the resources available here to address their needs. Time will tell where that situation goes and it may drive our future decisions depending on how the next 2 years of therapies goes.

3. As mentioned earlier, the 100% VA disability rating was quite shocking, and means about an extra 2k/mo from what we were expecting. This means that if needed, we can move to the mainland and never work again, but the problem is finding a place we want to live. We love Hawaii, but we’ll have to wait and see how the finances shore up over the next 2 years. Regarding my disability, my TBI seems to have caused some cognitive decline, so we will see what happens and how long I can keep doing what I do, which requires significant mental agility.

Our overall net worth has gone up in the last 3 years from 1.1M to 1.4M. The property has increased in value by about 100k, and we have great employment; all good problems to have. Hawaii is more expensive than we thought, but we found housing that is by all accounts, a steal at $2,250/mo (utilities included) for 1600 sq/ft in an AMAZING location. We did talk about just renting here for the next 10 years, but that doesn’t work if you want to have a farm. Still, we love where we are at and my work commute is 15 min with no traffic. Now that I’m out of the military, I work less (a straight 40hrs) and earn more, no complaints. Family issues with in-laws have become strained, so staying in Hawaii and being further from them works out great. :) Hawaii is everything we had hoped it would be, with the exception of costs. I think that if we do end up moving back to the mainland, that we will have gotten Hawaii “out of our system”, but I mean honestly, it’s just so amazing here, provided you have the income to live comfortably. We do try and live frugally, and I think over the next 2 years we will tighten our belts even more to try and build the house. :D
I'm glad that things, overall, have worked out for you.
Congratulations.

I've known so many from the mainland that have tried the same thing in Hawaii, then moved back in debt.
j :D
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