Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

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tommormile
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Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by tommormile » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm

Currently I have 1M umbrella policy. I pay $390 per year. Insurance agent quoted $610 for $2m policy. Should I upgrade my policy?
Is there any additional advantage of having 1M vs 2M policy?

- We will have a new teen driver this year.
- Net Assets crossed 2M this year.

Thanks,
Tom

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AAA
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by AAA » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:09 pm

There have been many threads here about this. Usually it comes down to a level of comfort.

I started at 1M years ago and went up gradually as the premium increases were not that great. I think the premium increase you were quoted to go from 1M to 2M seems a bit high.

neilpilot
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by neilpilot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:12 pm

tommormile wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm
Currently I have 1M umbrella policy. I pay $390 per year. Insurance agent quoted $610 for $2m policy. Should I upgrade my policy?
Is there any additional advantage of having 1M vs 2M policy?

- We will have a new teen driver this year.
- Net Assets crossed 2M this year.

Thanks,
Tom
I certainly hope that the quote you are considering includes your new teen driver.

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AndrewXnn
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by AndrewXnn » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 pm

Depends on the nature of the driver.
Also, goes beyond teenage years as there are plenty of reckless young drivers, ages 20+
One might think their parents had an inkling of their driving habits.

golfCaddy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by golfCaddy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:43 pm

There's lots of threads of this, such as this one: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216579

TallBoy29er
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by TallBoy29er » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 pm

Premium may be high, but going from 1M to 2M seems like a no brainer (been there). You want the insurance company to have skin in the game. 2M makes me feel better about this.

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friar1610
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by friar1610 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm

I had this question a few years ago and called my insurance company (USAA) to find out the additional cost. They showed me that, by increasing the liability coverage on the underlying policies (auto, homeowner, etc.) to $1m each and retaining the $1m umbrella, I could have the same result - $2m of liability coverage - at a lower cost than increasing the umbrella by $1m. YMMV.
Friar1610

neilpilot
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by neilpilot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 pm

friar1610 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm
I had this question a few years ago and called my insurance company (USAA) to find out the additional cost. They showed me that, by increasing the liability coverage on the underlying policies (auto, homeowner, etc.) to $1m each and retaining the $1m umbrella, I could have the same result - $2m of liability coverage - at a lower cost than increasing the umbrella by $1m. YMMV.
If you have $500k in home & auto liability, and a $1M umbrella, then you have $1.5M coverage. With a $2M umbrella, you have $2.5M coverage.

If you raise your underlying liability coverages to $1M and retain your $1M umbrella, you have $2M coverage.

So in your example, by raising your home & auto coverage to $1M and retaining your $1M umbrella your total liability coverage was less than what the $2M umbrella would have provided by the amount of the original liability limits of your home & auto.
Last edited by neilpilot on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sambb
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by sambb » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 pm

yes upgrade to 2M

Nearly A Moose
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Nearly A Moose » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:08 pm

Upgrade. It's very cheap protection. I have $2M and much lower assets/NW than you (and don't want a court garnishing my wages or attaching my property on the way there!)
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:42 pm

$220 more per year for 2 million of coverage is a lot of "sleep factor".
You have more to lose than the $220 in premiums.
I would get it.

j :D

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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Shikoku » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:44 pm

tommormile wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm
Currently I have 1M umbrella policy. I pay $390 per year. Insurance agent quoted $610 for $2m policy. Should I upgrade my policy?
Is there any additional advantage of having 1M vs 2M policy?

- We will have a new teen driver this year.
- Net Assets crossed 2M this year.

Thanks,
Tom
tommormile,
Seems you are paying too much and may like to shop around. I am paying $230/year for $2M umbrella policy. My underlying policies: $1M (home - personal liability) and $500K (auto - each person, each occurrence, and property damage liability). I also have a teen driver.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

PatrickA5
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by PatrickA5 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:06 am

Shikoku wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:44 pm
tommormile wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm
Currently I have 1M umbrella policy. I pay $390 per year. Insurance agent quoted $610 for $2m policy. Should I upgrade my policy?
Is there any additional advantage of having 1M vs 2M policy?

- We will have a new teen driver this year.
- Net Assets crossed 2M this year.

Thanks,
Tom
tommormile,
Seems you are paying too much and may like to shop around. I am paying $230/year for $2M umbrella policy. My underlying policies: $1M (home - personal liability) and $500K (auto - each person, each occurrence, and property damage liability). I also have a teen driver.
$610 sounds pretty cheap to me. My policy tripled once my son started driving a few years ago. Went from $275 to $898 (2 million coverage).

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Did you tell them you would have a "New Teen Driver" when you got the quotes/Prices?
If not - expect an increase.

Shikoku
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Shikoku » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:15 pm

DaftInvestor wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Did you tell them you would have a "New Teen Driver" when you got the quotes/Prices?
If not - expect an increase.
Our auto, home, and umbrella policies are with the same insurer. We used to carry $1M umbrella policy and pay $110/year. After our son was added to the auto policy, we increased the coverage to $2M at a premium of $230/year. I guess the premium for umbrella policy depends on many factors including where someone lives.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

bloom2708
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:25 pm

Might this be a time to shop insurance? $610 for $2 million in umbrella seems high. But, there are many factors that come into play.

There have been a number of "which insurance" threads recently. Maybe a browse and get 2-3 quotes. See how your insurance is holding up and evaluate deductibles and coverage as your wealth has increased.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

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serbeer
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by serbeer » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:33 pm

neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 pm
friar1610 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm
I had this question a few years ago and called my insurance company (USAA) to find out the additional cost. They showed me that, by increasing the liability coverage on the underlying policies (auto, homeowner, etc.) to $1m each and retaining the $1m umbrella, I could have the same result - $2m of liability coverage - at a lower cost than increasing the umbrella by $1m. YMMV.
If you have $500k in home & auto liability, and a $1M umbrella, then you have $1.5M coverage. With a $2M umbrella, you have $2.5M coverage.

If you raise your underlying liability coverages to $1M and retain your $1M umbrella, you have $2M coverage.

So in your example, by raising your home & auto coverage to $1M and retaining your $1M umbrella your total liability coverage was less than what the $2M umbrella would have provided by the amount of the original liability limits of your home & auto.
That is correct, and also you are not getting 100% equivalent coverage as Umbrella does cover a few additional things that auto+home policies do not cover (eg slander, libel, wrongful eviction, false arrest). Yes, these are less likely to be used but still, due to this and the reason neilpilot pointed out, you are not comparing apples to apples here.

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flamesabers
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by flamesabers » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm

My rule of thumb with umbrella insurance is to buy enough coverage to protect my assets. I think the liability protection offered by auto/home insurance should be treated as extra cushioning and not as a partial substitute for umbrella insurance.

visualguy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by visualguy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:19 pm

flamesabers wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm
My rule of thumb with umbrella insurance is to buy enough coverage to protect my assets. I think the liability protection offered by auto/home insurance should be treated as extra cushioning and not as a partial substitute for umbrella insurance.
There has been a lot of discussion on this in other threads. The bottom line is that no one has been able to cite a case where $2M in liability insurance wasn't sufficient for an individual (not a business) to cover any judgement or settlement in an injury lawsuit. Also, none of the insurance agents that I asked ever heard of such a case. There's no harm in having more, but I would be reluctant to spend money on insurance for something with no known cases of it ever happening. In particular, if everyone in your household is a reasonably careful driver (or at least not engaging in DUI, driving while distracted, or reckless driving), it seems like an extremely far-fetched scenario. Not impossible, but way below the threshold of what would cause me to lose sleep.

denovo
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by denovo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:25 pm

tommormile wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm


- We will have a new teen driver this year.
-

Expect the price of your umbrella to go up a lot when you add teen driver.

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flamesabers
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by flamesabers » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:41 pm

visualguy wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:19 pm
flamesabers wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm
My rule of thumb with umbrella insurance is to buy enough coverage to protect my assets. I think the liability protection offered by auto/home insurance should be treated as extra cushioning and not as a partial substitute for umbrella insurance.
There has been a lot of discussion on this in other threads. The bottom line is that no one has been able to cite a case where $2M in liability insurance wasn't sufficient for an individual (not a business) to cover any judgement or settlement in an injury lawsuit. Also, none of the insurance agents that I asked ever heard of such a case. There's no harm in having more, but I would be reluctant to spend money on insurance for something with no known cases of it ever happening. In particular, if everyone in your household is a reasonably careful driver (or at least not engaging in DUI, driving while distracted, or reckless driving), it seems like an extremely far-fetched scenario. Not impossible, but way below the threshold of what would cause me to lose sleep.
Have you asked any injury lawyers about what the typical payout is for an injury lawsuit? I think they would be better subject matter experts on this then insurance agents.

visualguy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by visualguy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:06 pm

flamesabers wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:41 pm
Have you asked any injury lawyers about what the typical payout is for an injury lawsuit? I think they would be better subject matter experts on this then insurance agents.
There are large personal injury payouts imposed on businesses which is a different ball game. It's important not to confuse those with payouts imposed on individuals.

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samsoes
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by samsoes » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:16 pm

Umbrella policy liability limits don't shield or protect assets. That seems to be a misconception.

Due to a devastating tragedy here in my local community, I've come to learn that an umbrella policy only means a bigger payday for plaintiffs in a lawsuit. If you have $2M in assets and a $2M umbrella policy, that means $4M is up for grabs in such a lawsuit (instead of your $2M).
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren at Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

visualguy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by visualguy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:34 pm

samsoes wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:16 pm
Umbrella policy liability limits don't shield or protect assets. That seems to be a misconception.

Due to a devastating tragedy here in my local community, I've come to learn that an umbrella policy only means a bigger payday for plaintiffs in a lawsuit. If you have $2M in assets and a $2M umbrella policy, that means $4M is up for grabs in such a lawsuit (instead of your $2M).
It's "up for grabs", but I've never heard of a case where it was actually grabbed. Have you?

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samsoes
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by samsoes » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm

visualguy wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:34 pm
samsoes wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:16 pm
Umbrella policy liability limits don't shield or protect assets. That seems to be a misconception.

Due to a devastating tragedy here in my local community, I've come to learn that an umbrella policy only means a bigger payday for plaintiffs in a lawsuit. If you have $2M in assets and a $2M umbrella policy, that means $4M is up for grabs in such a lawsuit (instead of your $2M).
It's "up for grabs", but I've never heard of a case where it was actually grabbed. Have you?
The case I referred to involved a $10M suit. Of course, the defendants in the case (college-age girl and her father who was the owner of the car) didn't even come close to having assets of that magnitude, even considering home equity. A $2M Umbrella policy in that case wouldn't have protected a cent.

I understand that most lawsuits aren't for that high amount, but some are. I'm merely trying to point-out that purchasing an Umbrella policy creates a false sense of security ("sleeping at night," etc.). If they actually, legally protected personal assets -- like a swap of $2M in assets protected if you had a $2M Umbrella -- then fine, yes, they'd be of great comfort. Unfortunately, the fact remains that they are additive -- total assets plus Umbrella are subject to a judgement.

Just sayin'. Be aware.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren at Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

Slacker
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Slacker » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:13 pm

Expensive policy.

We recently upgraded from $1M to $2M but it was only 80 dollars more per year ($220 for $2M coverage).

I definitely sleep better at night now.

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AAA
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by AAA » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:08 pm

flamesabers wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm
My rule of thumb with umbrella insurance is to buy enough coverage to protect my assets.
Good if that works for you, but one could be sued for more than the amount of one's assets.

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friar1610
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by friar1610 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:52 pm

neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 pm
friar1610 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm
I had this question a few years ago and called my insurance company (USAA) to find out the additional cost. They showed me that, by increasing the liability coverage on the underlying policies (auto, homeowner, etc.) to $1m each and retaining the $1m umbrella, I could have the same result - $2m of liability coverage - at a lower cost than increasing the umbrella by $1m. YMMV.
If you have $500k in home & auto liability, and a $1M umbrella, then you have $1.5M coverage. With a $2M umbrella, you have $2.5M coverage.

If you raise your underlying liability coverages to $1M and retain your $1M umbrella, you have $2M coverage.

So in your example, by raising your home & auto coverage to $1M and retaining your $1M umbrella your total liability coverage was less than what the $2M umbrella would have provided by the amount of the original liability limits of your home & auto.

Yes; you are right. I was not as clear as I might have been so thanks for catching it. My objective was to be able to protect up to $2m in assets from liability claims. IIRC USAA only offers umbrella in million dollar increments. So I couldn't increase my umbrella coverage to, say, $1.5m (over and above the underlying liability coverages of, say, $500k). The suggestion they came up with met my objective more cheaply than increasing umbrella by a mil. It may not meet everyone's but I was just throwing it out there as an option.
Friar1610

golfCaddy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by golfCaddy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:59 pm

visualguy wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:19 pm
flamesabers wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm
My rule of thumb with umbrella insurance is to buy enough coverage to protect my assets. I think the liability protection offered by auto/home insurance should be treated as extra cushioning and not as a partial substitute for umbrella insurance.
There has been a lot of discussion on this in other threads. The bottom line is that no one has been able to cite a case where $2M in liability insurance wasn't sufficient for an individual (not a business) to cover any judgement or settlement in an injury lawsuit.
In the one of the links in my post in the umbrella thread, there was a $32 million verdict. I think all the defendants, including the individual, would have been jointly liable for the verdict.

visualguy
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by visualguy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:00 pm

samsoes wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm
The case I referred to involved a $10M suit. Of course, the defendants in the case (college-age girl and her father who was the owner of the car) didn't even come close to having assets of that magnitude, even considering home equity. A $2M Umbrella policy in that case wouldn't have protected a cent.

I understand that most lawsuits aren't for that high amount, but some are. I'm merely trying to point-out that purchasing an Umbrella policy creates a false sense of security ("sleeping at night," etc.). If they actually, legally protected personal assets -- like a swap of $2M in assets protected if you had a $2M Umbrella -- then fine, yes, they'd be of great comfort. Unfortunately, the fact remains that they are additive -- total assets plus Umbrella are subject to a judgement.

Just sayin'. Be aware.
Right, although a $10M suit won't necessarily lead to a $10M judgement. An umbrella policy might still help. I think a $2M umbrella is reasonable and relatively cheap to have. Like you said, it may not protect you against some really extreme stuff, but then a $5M policy won't either.

mouses
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by mouses » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:39 pm

My $5 Mil policy from AMICA is $622.

shess
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by shess » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:06 am

samsoes wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm
visualguy wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:34 pm
samsoes wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:16 pm
Umbrella policy liability limits don't shield or protect assets. That seems to be a misconception.

Due to a devastating tragedy here in my local community, I've come to learn that an umbrella policy only means a bigger payday for plaintiffs in a lawsuit. If you have $2M in assets and a $2M umbrella policy, that means $4M is up for grabs in such a lawsuit (instead of your $2M).
It's "up for grabs", but I've never heard of a case where it was actually grabbed. Have you?
The case I referred to involved a $10M suit. Of course, the defendants in the case (college-age girl and her father who was the owner of the car) didn't even come close to having assets of that magnitude, even considering home equity. A $2M Umbrella policy in that case wouldn't have protected a cent.
The existence of your umbrella policy is hard to hide in a lawsuit, since they'll be defending the case. But my understanding is that is it not necessarily the case that the size of your policy or the amount of your assets will be disclosed. It's a negotiating tactic. Disclosing the amount invites the suit to argue for those amounts, while not disclosing invites them to make a reasonable estimate from actual need. Maybe they'll come up with $250k, maybe they'll go for $25M.

My position has been that there's a lot of value to putting the insurance company well on the hook, so $1M or $2M makes a lot of sense as a starting point. Beyond that, I think it makes a lot of sense to just consider the case based on fundamentals. Anyone can operate Zillow, and you can probably assume the suing party has your address, which is going to provide an excellent starting point for an estimate of your net worth with very little effort. It will certainly indicate to the lawyer whether the suit is worth taking on in the first place. Obviously if your name is on a wing of the local hospital, that's a factor! Likewise, consider the kinds of people in your neighborhood and city, because they're your likely source of a lawsuit. The given set of assets in Mountain View, CA would probably warrant different coverage than the same assets in Council Bluffs, IA.

Ichabob
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Ichabob » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:59 am

One of many possible reference points:
Bicyclist Awarded $300,000 After Collision With Runner
https://www.runnersworld.com/general-in ... ith-runner

investingdad
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by investingdad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 am

DaftInvestor wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Did you tell them you would have a "New Teen Driver" when you got the quotes/Prices?
If not - expect an increase.
It's for this reason I'm contemplating making our kids get their own insurance policies in a few years. My dad made me get my own and one minor accident at 17 helped me see the light on what that really meant.

sfchris
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by sfchris » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:52 am

serbeer wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:33 pm

That is correct, and also you are not getting 100% equivalent coverage as Umbrella does cover a few additional things that auto+home policies do not cover (eg slander, libel, wrongful eviction, false arrest). Yes, these are less likely to be used but still, due to this and the reason neilpilot pointed out, you are not comparing apples to apples here.
I felt the need to correct this. Umbrella insurance is NOT standardized. For example, my AAA policy does not add additional coverage to what is in the base insurance (no "slander, libel....", etc).

Unfortunately, umbrella insurance varies so widely that if you are particular, you need a good agent to analyze your situation and the various policy offerings. But as someone else said, this has all been covered in previous threads.

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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Call_Me_Op » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 am

mouses wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:39 pm
My $5 Mil policy from AMICA is $622.
That's cheap. You must have a very low risk profile (including living in a rural area).
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

sfchris
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by sfchris » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:02 am

Call_Me_Op wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 am
mouses wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:39 pm
My $5 Mil policy from AMICA is $622.
That's cheap. You must have a very low risk profile (including living in a rural area).
Actually, if you read through the other umbrella threads, that seems to be close to average ($100 per million).

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:08 am

investingdad wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 am
DaftInvestor wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Did you tell them you would have a "New Teen Driver" when you got the quotes/Prices?
If not - expect an increase.
It's for this reason I'm contemplating making our kids get their own insurance policies in a few years. My dad made me get my own and one minor accident at 17 helped me see the light on what that really meant.
I'm not sure if this would help from an Umbrella insurance policy perspective that you hold. If they are minor dependent living in your household under your guardianship from the perspective of liability you can still be held liable regardless of whether or not they have their own car insurance (Or are you suggesting a 17 year old take out an Umbrella policy?). My umbrella policy is separate from our car insurance (different carrier) and the questions the Umbrella asks is how many live in household and ages/drivers, # cars, etc.

investingdad
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by investingdad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:07 am

DaftInvestor wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:08 am
investingdad wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 am
DaftInvestor wrote: โ†‘
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Did you tell them you would have a "New Teen Driver" when you got the quotes/Prices?
If not - expect an increase.
It's for this reason I'm contemplating making our kids get their own insurance policies in a few years. My dad made me get my own and one minor accident at 17 helped me see the light on what that really meant.
I'm not sure if this would help from an Umbrella insurance policy perspective that you hold. If they are minor dependent living in your household under your guardianship from the perspective of liability you can still be held liable regardless of whether or not they have their own car insurance (Or are you suggesting a 17 year old take out an Umbrella policy?). My umbrella policy is separate from our car insurance (different carrier) and the questions the Umbrella asks is how many live in household and ages/drivers, # cars, etc.
Hmmm... valid point on minors under guardianship, I hadn't thought of that.

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jazman12
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by jazman12 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:00 pm

If you have some assets tied up in retirement vehicles (IRA; 401k) some jurisdictions protect these assets from liability lawsuits
Act soon... time is running out

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by neilpilot » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:56 pm

jazman12 wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:00 pm
If you have some assets tied up in retirement vehicles (IRA; 401k) some jurisdictions protect these assets from liability lawsuits
I believe the protection is limited to ERISA accounts, such as 401k & HSA. I believe non-ERISA account like a tIRA and Roth are not protected. I'm not sure this applies to all states, but that's the case in the few states I'm familiar with.

Pigeye Brewster
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Pigeye Brewster » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:34 pm

neilpilot wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:56 pm
jazman12 wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:00 pm
If you have some assets tied up in retirement vehicles (IRA; 401k) some jurisdictions protect these assets from liability lawsuits
I believe the protection is limited to ERISA accounts, such as 401k & HSA. I believe non-ERISA account like a tIRA and Roth are not protected. I'm not sure this applies to all states, but that's the case in the few states I'm familiar with.
Yes, the Federal protection is limited to ERISA accounts. For non-ERISA retirement accounts, such as IRAs, the amount of protection depends on state law.

When funds are withdrawn from a retirement account, they may be subject to an outstanding judgment.

Shikoku
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Location: USA

Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Shikoku » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:39 pm

Ichabob wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:59 am
One of many possible reference points:
Bicyclist Awarded $300,000 After Collision With Runner
https://www.runnersworld.com/general-in ... ith-runner
Texas Governor Greg Abbott got a $10M settlement from the 1984 tree falling case by suing the homeowner and the tree service company. May be a smaller portion of the award came from the homeowner -- just my guess. Mr. Abbott has been wheelchair bound since then.
https://www.texastribune.org/2013/08/02 ... -proceeds/
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett

Finridge
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Re: Umbrella Policy - 1M or 2M

Post by Finridge » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am

friar1610 wrote: โ†‘
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm
I had this question a few years ago and called my insurance company (USAA) to find out the additional cost. They showed me that, by increasing the liability coverage on the underlying policies (auto, homeowner, etc.) to $1m each and retaining the $1m umbrella, I could have the same result - $2m of liability coverage - at a lower cost than increasing the umbrella by $1m. YMMV.
Yes, $1m is pretty low.

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