Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

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ResearchMed
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Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am

We each received an email from Vanguard, including the following:

"Dear Vanguard Client,

Thank you for being part of the Vanguard community of investors.

We wanted to let you know the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement is being amended to reflect policy changes that may affect how you do business with us. The changes relate to the following:
• Direction to buy or sell Vanguard funds must be placed online or verbally and may no longer be submitted in writing.
"

It's that last sentence, about only online or phone buy/sell transactions...

Does this completely cancel the "snail mail, express mail, or fax" work-around for the 30-day restriction on Vanguard fund purchases after selling from that same fund?

We've never used that Plan B, but it was nice to know it was there (I think...).

RM
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livesoft
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by livesoft » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:26 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am
Does this completely cancel the "snail mail, express mail, or fax" work-around for the 30-day restriction on Vanguard fund purchases after selling from that same fund?

We've never used that Plan B, but it was nice to know it was there (I think...).

RM
Don't know and don't care because there is an easier online workaround as demonstrated in this recent thread: viewtopic.php?t=235374
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ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:44 am

livesoft wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:26 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am
Does this completely cancel the "snail mail, express mail, or fax" work-around for the 30-day restriction on Vanguard fund purchases after selling from that same fund?

We've never used that Plan B, but it was nice to know it was there (I think...).

RM
Don't know and don't care because there is an easier online workaround as demonstrated in this recent thread: viewtopic.php?t=235374
Thanks, but I'm not looking for a better Plan B, since we don't use it.

I'm curious if they really have cancelled that method to buy after a sell (and thus without clarifying the implications in this email).

As of a few minutes ago, a "sell" order for a Vanguard fund still generated a warning about the 30-day restriction, with this next bit still included:

"...Excessive transactions can disrupt management of a fund and increase the fund's costs for all shareholders. To prevent this disruption, purchases or exchanges back into non-ETF share classes of this fund by phone or online aren't permitted for 30 calendar days after this sale. However, you can make transactions by U.S. mail..."
[emphasis added]

RM
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by jhfenton » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:08 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am
It's that last sentence, about only online or phone buy/sell transactions...

Does this completely cancel the "snail mail, express mail, or fax" work-around for the 30-day restriction on Vanguard fund purchases after selling from that same fund?
I think it does eliminate that option. (I don't think fax was a work-around anyway.)

I think it's a good change. Written orders never seemed secure to me anyway.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 am

jhfenton wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:08 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:22 am
It's that last sentence, about only online or phone buy/sell transactions...

Does this completely cancel the "snail mail, express mail, or fax" work-around for the 30-day restriction on Vanguard fund purchases after selling from that same fund?
I think it does eliminate that option. (I don't think fax was a work-around anyway.)

I think it's a good change. Written orders never seemed secure to me anyway.
Right.
But they should NOT still be telling clients that they *can* send in those buy orders by mail IF they want to buy within 30 days of selling.
THAT is what is wrong with this picture.

And although DH got his email about this today, I received mine quite some time ago, so there has definitely been time to rephrase the "notice" that pops up when starting a "sell" order.
OR... the email should make it clear that the pop up wording about mailing a buy order should be ignored.

RM
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stan1
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by stan1 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:14 am

Email states this policy applies to brokerage accounts so wondering if anyone who has a legacy mutual fund account is getting similar notices.

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by jhfenton » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:18 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 am
Right.
But they should NOT still be telling clients that they *can* send in those buy orders by mail IF they want to buy within 30 days of selling.
THAT is what is wrong with this picture.

And although DH got his email about this today, I received mine quite some time ago, so there has definitely been time to rephrase the "notice" that pops up when starting a "sell" order.
OR... the email should make it clear that the pop up wording about mailing a buy order should be ignored.
The brokerage amendment doesn't go into effect until February 15, 2018, so they still have time to change the online notices.

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plannerman
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by plannerman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am

This can't possibly mean what it seems to say. If so, how would one mail in a check. Without a letter of instruction or investment form, how would Vanguard know what to do with the check? Seems crazy!!!!

plannerman

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heartwood
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by heartwood » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:51 am

plannerman wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am
This can't possibly mean what it seems to say. If so, how would one mail in a check. Without a letter of instruction or investment form, how would Vanguard know what to do with the check? Seems crazy!!!!

plannerman
I have the same question. I asked my rep a few weeks ago for some transaction slips. He said they don't have them anymore. He mentioned they're no longer printed as part of transactions. I wish the notice was clearer.

Fclevz
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by Fclevz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:56 am

plannerman wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am
...how would one mail in a check.
Maybe you don’t. They likely want to move all new-money investments to electronic funds transfers from your bank.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by Geologist » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:09 pm

heartwood wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:51 am
plannerman wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am
This can't possibly mean what it seems to say. If so, how would one mail in a check. Without a letter of instruction or investment form, how would Vanguard know what to do with the check? Seems crazy!!!!

plannerman
I have the same question. I asked my rep a few weeks ago for some transaction slips. He said they don't have them anymore. He mentioned they're no longer printed as part of transactions. I wish the notice was clearer.
You haven't needed transaction slips with the brokerage accounts for some time. When my mother's account was converted in 2016, I was told that you would just send a letter with the statement "Please deposit the enclosed check to my Federal Money Market Settlement Fund in Account XXXXXX" and endorse the check "Payable to Vanguard." This has worked fine.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by Nummerkins » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:16 pm

You can still deposit/withdraw by mail/check, but only to/from your settlement account.

See here: https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/written-orders
Last edited by Nummerkins on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:17 pm

Fclevz wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:56 am
plannerman wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am
...how would one mail in a check.
Maybe you don’t. They likely want to move all new-money investments to electronic funds transfers from your bank.
If you initiate an online transaction and request payment by check, you will still have given electronic instructions to make a trade. They cannot take that away as some retirement distributions always seems to be done via check regardless of source. I did a 401(k) rollover from my Vanguard IRA. Vanguard is the record keeper for the 401(k) that required a check as the funds are held by completely different entities and requires checks.

ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:21 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:18 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 am
Right.
But they should NOT still be telling clients that they *can* send in those buy orders by mail IF they want to buy within 30 days of selling.
THAT is what is wrong with this picture.

And although DH got his email about this today, I received mine quite some time ago, so there has definitely been time to rephrase the "notice" that pops up when starting a "sell" order.
OR... the email should make it clear that the pop up wording about mailing a buy order should be ignored.
The brokerage amendment doesn't go into effect until February 15, 2018, so they still have time to change the online notices.
But why not give a heads up that the policy is changing, since they already know it is.
Why not say, "effective... ", etc.?

RM
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retiringwhen
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by retiringwhen » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:29 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:17 pm
Fclevz wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:56 am
plannerman wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am
...how would one mail in a check.
Maybe you don’t. They likely want to move all new-money investments to electronic funds transfers from your bank.
If you initiate an online transaction and request payment by check, you will still have given electronic instructions to make a trade. They cannot take that away as some retirement distributions always seems to be done via check regardless of source. I did a 401(k) rollover from my Vanguard IRA. Vanguard is the record keeper for the 401(k) that required a check as the funds are held by completely different entities and requires checks.
After reading the link above from the Vanguard site, the procedure i describe appears to still be supported going forward, but only for money to/from the Settlement account. Actually makes sense. As it makes the cash flow problem of checks isolated to an already heavily regulated bank account type fund anyway.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by grabiner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 pm

The biggest issue this will create is with specific identification of mutual shares. The standard way to do this used to be to send Vanguard a letter identifying the shares to be sold.

The online procedure with non-covered shares is to sell the non-covered shares online, and then to send Vanguard a secure Email requesting the specific identification, since it isn't possible to do that as part of the online transaction.

Either way, Vanguard will still use average cost for non-covered shares in reporting the capital gain on the 1099-B, so you need to know that the 1099-B is wrong and correct it yourself on Form 8949.
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by TropikThunder » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:01 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:21 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:18 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 am
Right.
But they should NOT still be telling clients that they *can* send in those buy orders by mail IF they want to buy within 30 days of selling.
THAT is what is wrong with this picture.

And although DH got his email about this today, I received mine quite some time ago, so there has definitely been time to rephrase the "notice" that pops up when starting a "sell" order.
OR... the email should make it clear that the pop up wording about mailing a buy order should be ignored.
The brokerage amendment doesn't go into effect until February 15, 2018, so they still have time to change the online notices.
But why not give a heads up that the policy is changing, since they already know it is.
Why not say, "effective... ", etc.?

RM
The email you're referring closes with (my emphasis added):
For details about what’s changing, please review the Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement, effective February 15, 2018, by selecting the button below. Be sure to keep a copy with your account records.
Vanguard isn't known for hand-holding, and it's not their fault if someone doesn't read the notices. As of today, you can still mail in a purchase order, so the pop-up is still appropriate. For now.

livesoft
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by livesoft » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:27 am

There seems to be an adverse reaction to this notice from Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am

All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.

ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by ResearchMed » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:18 am

TropikThunder wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:01 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:21 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:18 am
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:12 am
Right.
But they should NOT still be telling clients that they *can* send in those buy orders by mail IF they want to buy within 30 days of selling.
THAT is what is wrong with this picture.

And although DH got his email about this today, I received mine quite some time ago, so there has definitely been time to rephrase the "notice" that pops up when starting a "sell" order.
OR... the email should make it clear that the pop up wording about mailing a buy order should be ignored.
The brokerage amendment doesn't go into effect until February 15, 2018, so they still have time to change the online notices.
But why not give a heads up that the policy is changing, since they already know it is.
Why not say, "effective... ", etc.?

RM
The email you're referring closes with (my emphasis added):
For details about what’s changing, please review the Amendment to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement, effective February 15, 2018, by selecting the button below. Be sure to keep a copy with your account records.
Vanguard isn't known for hand-holding, and it's not their fault if someone doesn't read the notices. As of today, you can still mail in a purchase order, so the pop-up is still appropriate. For now.
I'm referring to putting that "this will change effective..." information in the "warning pop-up" window when one starts to sell a Vanguard mutual fund, right there where the person can see it, and right then understand any consequences. And *especially* for something that involves a major change.

Why not get clients used to the new terms as soon as the new terms are known, buy putting them in the same warning they're seeing now, except that "now", there is zero hint that there might even be a possible change.... but the change is already known and definite.

Keeping the warning pop-up current with known policies, IF they are going to have said pop-up, isn't "hand holding".

RM
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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by LK2012 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:34 am

grabiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 pm
The biggest issue this will create is with specific identification of mutual shares. The standard way to do this used to be to send Vanguard a letter identifying the shares to be sold.

The online procedure with non-covered shares is to sell the non-covered shares online, and then to send Vanguard a secure Email requesting the specific identification, since it isn't possible to do that as part of the online transaction.

Either way, Vanguard will still use average cost for non-covered shares in reporting the capital gain on the 1099-B, so you need to know that the 1099-B is wrong and correct it yourself on Form 8949.
Thank you! I didn't know this, and having this information will save some future aggravation. I would assume if you have sent Vanguard the specific ID information, they could also update the cost basis accordingly if you supplied that information. But if they won't do that, it's easier to know about it ahead of time.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by LK2012 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:35 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am
All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.
I'm sure it is easier for the financial institutions. But not for folks that don't have a smartphone.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by MFInvestor » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:22 am

There is a prospectus supplement effective date 2/15/2018 that details changes to the Frequent Trading Policy

Supplement is for Index 500

Supplement to the Prospectus

Effective February 15, 2018, the text under the heading “Frequent-Trading Limitations” within the Investing With Vanguard section is amended to read as follows:


Link to supplement:

https://personal.vanguard.com/pub/Pdf/p ... 2210133180

I am confused by this part of the supplement as it seems to contradict the ability to use written instructions:
These frequent-trading limitations do not apply to the following:

• Exchange requests submitted by written request to Vanguard. (Exchange requests submitted by fax, if otherwise permitted, are subject to the limitations.)
This seems to state that you can purchase back into a fund via exchange prior to 30 days as long as it is in writing which has always been the case.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:28 pm

LK2012 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:35 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am
All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.
I'm sure it is easier for the financial institutions. But not for folks that don't have a smartphone.
True, but I was merely using that as an example. In the case of Vanguard, they are pushing us to use our laptop or desktop computers rather than toward smartphones. The general trend is to replace paper-based processes with electronic processes.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by jhfenton » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:53 pm

MFInvestor wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:22 am
I am confused by this part of the supplement as it seems to contradict the ability to use written instructions:
These frequent-trading limitations do not apply to the following:

• Exchange requests submitted by written request to Vanguard. (Exchange requests submitted by fax, if otherwise permitted, are subject to the limitations.)
This seems to state that you can purchase back into a fund via exchange prior to 30 days as long as it is in writing which has always been the case.
That part now only applies "For participants in employer-sponsored defined contribution plans...." They removed that bullet point from the general restriction above applicable to other fund owners.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:57 pm

LK2012 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:35 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am
All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.
I'm sure it is easier for the financial institutions. But not for folks that don't have a smartphone.
Actually, when you upgrade to the brokerage accounts, you CAN'T deposit checks via their cell phone app like you used to be able to to. IMO, that's not an "upgrade" but rather a step backwards.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by jhfenton » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:06 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:57 pm
LK2012 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:35 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am
All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.
I'm sure it is easier for the financial institutions. But not for folks that don't have a smartphone.
Actually, when you upgrade to the brokerage accounts, you CAN'T deposit checks via their cell phone app like you used to be able to to. IMO, that's not an "upgrade" but rather a step backwards.
I ask them about that at least once per year. In late 2015, they said it was coming. In 2016, they said it was coming. A few weeks ago, I was speaking to someone in IT because their app was crashing, and they said it "might" be coming eventually, but maybe not.

(The app was crashing because my phone was set to French, which somehow conflicted with a new "My Feed'" feature in the app they are testing with random customers. It doesn't crash logging into my wife's account, because she doesn't get the new "My Feed", and it doesn't crash if I switch my phone to English. I wonder if it still crashes...Yep. Still crashes.)

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by heartwood » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:15 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:06 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:57 pm
LK2012 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:35 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 am
All financial institutions are moving toward all-electronic processes. For example, my credit union now actively discourages depositing checks by mail. Instead they want customers to use their smartphone app to photograph the check and deposit it electronically. Vanguard is no different. They're gradually eliminating paper and transitioning their investors to an all-electronic format.
I'm sure it is easier for the financial institutions. But not for folks that don't have a smartphone.
Actually, when you upgrade to the brokerage accounts, you CAN'T deposit checks via their cell phone app like you used to be able to to. IMO, that's not an "upgrade" but rather a step backwards.
I ask them about that at least once per year. In late 2015, they said it was coming. In 2016, they said it was coming. A few weeks ago, I was speaking to someone in IT because their app was crashing, and they said it "might" be coming eventually, but maybe not.

(The app was crashing because my phone was set to French, which somehow conflicted with a new "My Feed'" feature in the app they are testing with random customers. It doesn't crash logging into my wife's account, because she doesn't get the new "My Feed", and it doesn't crash if I switch my phone to English. I wonder if it still crashes...Yep. Still crashes.)
re mobile check deposit, my irritation is that I was not warned that it would not be available after my "upgrade" 2Q16.

I've had the same type of conversation with my rep over the years: probably by year's end 2016, then mid-2017, then in 4Q17, now maybe in mid February. The explanations I'm given are that the 2016 vendor developing the product failed. Then it was a new vendor starting over. Now its just not ready. Vaporware? Others have no problem offering the service. I don't switch because its related to depositing payments to my LLC at Vanguard. Starting over at Fido or elsewhere is too much effort. So I do mobile deposits at BOA, then EFT to Vanguard. I've also used USPS to Vanguard, with written instructions, but that leaves relatively large checks in limbo for a week or more.

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by gasdoc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:12 pm

I have never thought Vanguard was great as a “bank.” I use Capital One for mobile deposits, then transfer electronically to Vanguard. My LLC funds are direct deposited.

Gasdoc

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Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by MFInvestor » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 pm

That part now only applies "For participants in employer-sponsored defined contribution plans...." They removed that bullet point from the general restriction above applicable to other fund owners.
jhfenton

Has anyone else read the prospectus supplement on the frequent trade policy changes effective 2/15/2018

I'm not reading this the same as jhfenton

My interpretation is that you can still do an exchange to buy in writing even if you transacted out of the fund in question within the past 30 days which seems to contradict the new policy disclosure effective on February 15, 2018.

https://personal.vanguard.com/pub/Pdf/p ... 2210133180

Supplement to the Prospectus

Effective February 15, 2018, the text under the heading “Frequent-Trading Limitations” within the Investing With Vanguard section is amended to read as follows:

Frequent-Trading Limitations

Because excessive transactions can disrupt management of a fund and increase the fund’s costs for all shareholders, the board of trustees of each Vanguard fund places certain limits on frequent trading in the funds. Each Vanguard fund (other than money market funds and short-term bond funds, but including Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund) limits an investor’s purchases or exchanges into a fund account for 30 calendar days after the investor has redeemed or exchanged out of that fund account. ETF Shares are not subject to these frequent-trading limits. For Vanguard Retirement Investment Program pooled plans, the limitations apply to exchanges made online or by telephone. These frequent-trading limitations do not apply to the following:

• Purchases of shares with reinvested dividend or capital gains distributions.
• Transactions through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service, Direct Deposit Service, Automatic Withdrawal Plan, Required Minimum Distribution Service, and Vanguard Small Business Online®.
• Discretionary transactions through Vanguard Asset Management Services™, Vanguard Personal Advisor Services®, and Vanguard Institutional Advisory Services®. • Redemptions of shares to pay fund or account fees.
• Redemptions of shares to remove excess shareholder contributions to certain types of retirement accounts (including, but not limited to, IRAs, certain Individual 403(b)(7) Custodial Accounts, and Vanguard Individual 401(k) Plans).
• Transfers and reregistrations of shares within the same fund.

• Purchases of shares by asset transfer or direct rollover.
• Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
• Checkwriting redemptions. • Section 529 college savings plans. • Certain approved institutional portfolios and asset allocation programs, as well as trades made by funds or trusts managed by Vanguard or its affiliates that invest in other Vanguard funds. (Please note that shareholders of Vanguard’s funds of funds are subject to the limitations.) For participants in employer-sponsored defined contribution plans,* the frequenttrading limitations do not apply to:
• Purchases of shares with participant payroll or employer contributions or loan repayments. • Purchases of shares with reinvested dividend or capital gains distributions.
• Distributions, loans, and in-service withdrawals from a plan. • Redemptions of shares as part of a plan termination or at the direction of the plan.
• Transactions executed through the Vanguard Managed Account Program.
• Redemptions of shares to pay fund or account fees.
• Share or asset transfers or rollovers.
• Reregistrations of shares. • Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
• Exchange requests submitted by written request to Vanguard. (Exchange requests submitted by fax, if otherwise permitted, are subject to the limitations.)

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jhfenton
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Location: Ohio

Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by jhfenton » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:48 pm

MFInvestor wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 pm
Has anyone else read the prospectus supplement on the frequent trade policy changes effective 2/15/2018

I'm not reading this the same as jhfenton

My interpretation is that you can still do an exchange to buy in writing even if you transacted out of the fund in question within the past 30 days which seems to contradict the new policy disclosure effective on February 15, 2018.

https://personal.vanguard.com/pub/Pdf/p ... 2210133180
You're missing the section break in the middle.

MFInvestor wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 pm

Supplement to the Prospectus

Effective February 15, 2018, the text under the heading “Frequent-Trading Limitations” within the Investing With Vanguard section is amended to read as follows:

Frequent-Trading Limitations

Because excessive transactions can disrupt management of a fund and increase the fund’s costs for all shareholders, the board of trustees of each Vanguard fund places certain limits on frequent trading in the funds. Each Vanguard fund (other than money market funds and short-term bond funds, but including Vanguard Short-Term Inflation-Protected Securities Index Fund) limits an investor’s purchases or exchanges into a fund account for 30 calendar days after the investor has redeemed or exchanged out of that fund account. ETF Shares are not subject to these frequent-trading limits. For Vanguard Retirement Investment Program pooled plans, the limitations apply to exchanges made online or by telephone.

These frequent-trading limitations do not apply to the following:

• Purchases of shares with reinvested dividend or capital gains distributions.
• Transactions through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service, Direct Deposit Service, Automatic Withdrawal Plan, Required Minimum Distribution Service, and Vanguard Small Business Online®.
• Discretionary transactions through Vanguard Asset Management Services™, Vanguard Personal Advisor Services®, and Vanguard Institutional Advisory Services®. • Redemptions of shares to pay fund or account fees.
• Redemptions of shares to remove excess shareholder contributions to certain types of retirement accounts (including, but not limited to, IRAs, certain Individual 403(b)(7) Custodial Accounts, and Vanguard Individual 401(k) Plans).
• Transfers and reregistrations of shares within the same fund.
• Purchases of shares by asset transfer or direct rollover.
• Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
• Checkwriting redemptions.
• Section 529 college savings plans.
• Certain approved institutional portfolios and asset allocation programs, as well as trades made by funds or trusts managed by Vanguard or its affiliates that invest in other Vanguard funds. (Please note that shareholders of Vanguard’s funds of funds are subject to the limitations.)


For participants in employer-sponsored defined contribution plans,* the frequent trading limitations do not apply to:

• Purchases of shares with participant payroll or employer contributions or loan repayments. • Purchases of shares with reinvested dividend or capital gains distributions.
• Distributions, loans, and in-service withdrawals from a plan. • Redemptions of shares as part of a plan termination or at the direction of the plan.
• Transactions executed through the Vanguard Managed Account Program.
• Redemptions of shares to pay fund or account fees.
• Share or asset transfers or rollovers.
• Reregistrations of shares.
• Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
• Exchange requests submitted by written request to Vanguard. (Exchange requests submitted by fax, if otherwise permitted, are subject to the limitations.)
The green section and the red section are different lists, for different investors. They removed your bolded bullet point from the green, generally-applicable section. They left it in the qualified plan section.

MFInvestor
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Vanguard: No more buy/sell transactions in writing?

Post by MFInvestor » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:10 pm

jh fenton wrote:

The green section and the red section are different lists, for different investors. They removed your bolded bullet point from the green, generally-applicable section. They left it in the qualified plan section.
Thank you. Now I see your point- I was missing the break you pointed out.

Appreciate the clarification.

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