How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Epsilon Delta » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:26 pm

Ron Scott wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:11 pm
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am

Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.

Only if you stayed in the city for more than 182 days...
Since he works in Manhattan that is likely. You don't have to sleep there for the day to count as spent in NY, any part of a day counts as a day.

Tanelorn
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Tanelorn » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:23 am

bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:02 pm
Tanelorn wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm
And worse, if you qualify as a NYS/NYC resident based on property ownership and working there, you may still count as a resident in NJ or CT were you spend 90%+ of your nights and were you actually live. This can lead to situations where your home state doesn't think you're a NY resident under their rules, and so you can't deduct the taxes you pay NY and you end up getting taxed at full rate by both states. And you thought one 10% tax rate was bad enough...
Either would allow a credit with respect to the NY source income.

NJ would allow a credit for the NY tax on the intangible income (subject to the usual limitations), but I don't think CT would.
Yes, I think CT was the example I heard of with the double taxation. I don't recall whether the person got unlucky in that they got audited by NY sufficiently late that they were still on the hook for back taxes when NY decided they were a resident, but too late for them to claim a credit on their CT taxes for a refund, or whether they would have always been double taxed even if they knew all the rules and had filed accordingly up front. Either way, not a situation you want to be in.

Alex Frakt
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Alex Frakt » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:21 am

jks1985 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:07 pm
Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
Big winter-wonderland snow storm today and I'm glad I'm in town!
Thanks Ron! I miss being able to walk around the city after a snowstorm. I used to live near Gramercy Park. That area is breathtaking when it snows.
How about Chicago? Plenty of parks to walk around in after a snowstorm :-) No city tax. Much lower cost of living than NYC. Clean, walkable. Safe (if you avoid the murdery bits, which is quite easy to do). Local economy is strong and has whatever you are looking for in terms of culture, food, airline connections, universities, recreational activities, etc. OK, the weather is admittedly is less than optimal and if you are into day trips, your options are seriously limited.

Ron Scott
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Ron Scott » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:34 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:26 pm
Ron Scott wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:11 pm
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am

Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.

Only if you stayed in the city for more than 182 days...
Since he works in Manhattan that is likely. You don't have to sleep there for the day to count as spent in NY, any part of a day counts as a day.
A good point. Although, if one traveled on business enough, he could legitimately beat the 182, but he'd have to avoid extensive weekend city partying and be fastidious in his record keeping. I believe the city aggressively audits the work-in-NYC, home-in-NYC crowd.

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:03 am

Looks like I need to earn some more money so I can keep a place in FL/TX and a place in NYC and spend half the year in each (-1 day in NYC). This seems like the best option to avoid the tax.

Too bad the condo fees would probably be $300/month down south and $1000/month up in NY.

bsteiner
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Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bsteiner » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Tanelorn wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:23 am
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:02 pm
Tanelorn wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm
And worse, if you qualify as a NYS/NYC resident based on property ownership and working there, you may still count as a resident in NJ or CT were you spend 90%+ of your nights and were you actually live. This can lead to situations where your home state doesn't think you're a NY resident under their rules, and so you can't deduct the taxes you pay NY and you end up getting taxed at full rate by both states. And you thought one 10% tax rate was bad enough...
Either would allow a credit with respect to the NY source income.

NJ would allow a credit for the NY tax on the intangible income (subject to the usual limitations), but I don't think CT would.
Yes, I think CT was the example I heard of with the double taxation. I don't recall whether the person got unlucky in that they got audited by NY sufficiently late that they were still on the hook for back taxes when NY decided they were a resident, but too late for them to claim a credit on their CT taxes for a refund, or whether they would have always been double taxed even if they knew all the rules and had filed accordingly up front. Either way, not a situation you want to be in.
You're thinking of Ed Zelinsky, a professor of tax law at Cardozo Law school who argued unsuccessfully that he shouldn't be taxable in New York on the days he worked at home in Connecticut.

technovelist
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by technovelist » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:53 am

jks1985 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:03 am
Looks like I need to earn some more money so I can keep a place in FL/TX and a place in NYC and spend half the year in each (-1 day in NYC). This seems like the best option to avoid the tax.

Too bad the condo fees would probably be $300/month down south and $1000/month up in NY.
Why not just visit for a few weeks every couple of months, staying in an Air BnB or the like? That would probably be the simplest and cheapest solution, especially if you have schedule flexibility so you can avoid working while in NYC.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:15 am

technovelist wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:53 am
jks1985 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:03 am
Looks like I need to earn some more money so I can keep a place in FL/TX and a place in NYC and spend half the year in each (-1 day in NYC). This seems like the best option to avoid the tax.

Too bad the condo fees would probably be $300/month down south and $1000/month up in NY.
Why not just visit for a few weeks every couple of months, staying in an Air BnB or the like? That would probably be the simplest and cheapest solution, especially if you have schedule flexibility so you can avoid working while in NYC.
That's certainly another option. Also I can choose cheaper travel times this way, trying to get deals on AirBnb rentals.

KATNYC
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by KATNYC » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:38 pm

jks1985 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:11 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:51 am
Can your wife get a job with benefits? Since you're not in high finance, a two-income household is basically a requirement.
That might be down the road. We are planning on having children in 2018, so I'd like her to stay at home. Daycare in the city can be 30,000/year anyways.
I would not recommend anyone relocate to NYC, especially if you plan to have kids and be a single income family unless you are making over $200K.
I love NYC and have lived here for decades, but I was one of those lucky ones you described that bought housing cheaply.
We could not afford to buy this place now.

The public schools are not great, for the most part, so many families choose private school.
Our friends have kids in Catholic schools, Fieldston, St. Bernards & another that I cannot recall. Tuition ranges from $12K per year to $48K per year, per child.

Jackbnimble
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Jackbnimble » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:02 pm

You might wait and see how some of these proposals turn out. I have a feeling these high tax states are going to get creative when it comes to retaining their residents.

https://taxfoundation.org/state-strateg ... deduction/

In California, legislation has been filed to allow residents to make contributions in lieu of taxes, making a voluntary contribution to a new California Excellence Fund and then claiming the full amount as a credit against state income tax liability, since the state and local tax deduction is capped but the charitable deduction is not.

In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo is considering creating a new employer-side payroll tax with a commensurate credit against state income tax liability, since employer-side payroll taxes are deductible.

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:05 pm

Jackbnimble wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:02 pm
In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo is considering creating a new employer-side payroll tax with a commensurate credit against state income tax liability, since employer-side payroll taxes are deductible.
But I guess that doesn't help me seeing as I'm self employed with press thru LLC income.

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