How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm

jks1985 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:07 pm
truenorth418 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:54 pm
Based on my research, the 180 day thing may not work if you are working in the city and maintain an apartment there. I think the state and city are pretty strict on NY domicile rules.

Another option is to live in Hoboken or Jersey City. The NJ taxes suck but at least you wouldn’t get the additional NYC tax. Jersey City is very cool and a short PATH ride into Manhattan.

There is nothing like NYC in the USA. I understand your predicament. But I am in the opposite situation, looking at ways to leave.

Good luck.
The problem with JC is the path is expensive! I lived there for a year. You have to pay $2.75 per trip and then another $2.75 when you switch to the NYC Subway. Whenever I went into the city with my wife, it either cost us $22 in subway fare or $13 for driving the Lincoln tunnel (plus parking fee). It made it so we didn’t go into the city as much as we would have liked!
Buy a monthly pass! A little bit cheaper. Living up here is expensive!!
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:26 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm
jks1985 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:07 pm
truenorth418 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:54 pm
Based on my research, the 180 day thing may not work if you are working in the city and maintain an apartment there. I think the state and city are pretty strict on NY domicile rules.

Another option is to live in Hoboken or Jersey City. The NJ taxes suck but at least you wouldn’t get the additional NYC tax. Jersey City is very cool and a short PATH ride into Manhattan.

There is nothing like NYC in the USA. I understand your predicament. But I am in the opposite situation, looking at ways to leave.

Good luck.
The problem with JC is the path is expensive! I lived there for a year. You have to pay $2.75 per trip and then another $2.75 when you switch to the NYC Subway. Whenever I went into the city with my wife, it either cost us $22 in subway fare or $13 for driving the Lincoln tunnel (plus parking fee). It made it so we didn’t go into the city as much as we would have liked!
Buy a monthly pass! A little bit cheaper. Living up here is expensive!!
I certainly will if I live in NYC. Living in JC you would need both a PATH pass and an MTA pass. Would be close to $300/month for each person.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:56 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:14 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:07 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:49 pm
I would just rent.
Half-year rental prices are not restricted in any way, and typically are higher, on a per-month basis, than market-rate yearly because the landlord is taking more risk.

If that's worth it to a person, then fine. I wanted to make it clear it isn't so equivalent as it may seem.

PJW
I didn’t say to rent half year. Why do that? But if he and his family move back then just rent yearly. Avoid the high taxes.
Sorry. With all the non-attributions I lost track of who was responding to whom. jks1985 mentioned the possibility upthread.

PJW

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:03 pm
aristotelian wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:27 pm
...
Buy the place in NYC. You can always sublet or rent it out via AirBNB when you're not there. Much easier than renting a new apartment every 6 months.
AirBNB rentals are illegal; and sublets are restricted in some properties, but not others. The restrictions can and do change. I'd be careful about using the reasoning in a purchase decision without very careful analysis, including of the risks of considerable uncertainties.

PJW
I did not mean to do long term rental through AirBnb, just to do vacation rentals through AirBnb while he is out of town. I have stayed in AirBnb in NYC many times, it is not illegal.
It is illegal. Scofflaws do not transform something illegal into being legal.

I understood you meant to suggest that OP rent the apartment to others through Airbnb when not in town. I wanted to point out doing so is beyond the bounds of the law, to let OP know what he would be getting into.

The legislation in the link I provided specifies the fines for the first and each subsequent offense.

PJW

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by broslami » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:29 pm

Living in NYC is like a dorm room for adults.

If you don't care about saving and want to spend a lot of money, then go for it. This of course doesn't apply if your income is super high.

aristotelian
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by aristotelian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:05 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

It is illegal. Scofflaws do not transform something illegal into being legal.

I understood you meant to suggest that OP rent the apartment to others through Airbnb when not in town. I wanted to point out doing so is beyond the bounds of the law, to let OP know what he would be getting into.

The legislation in the link I provided specifies the fines for the first and each subsequent offense.

PJW
The internet says that you are not entirely correct. There are exceptions to the law, although it is clear that the legal/political climate is not friendly to short term rentals.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... -city.html

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

broslami wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:29 pm
Living in NYC is like a dorm room for adults.

If you don't care about saving and want to spend a lot of money, then go for it. This of course doesn't apply if your income is super high.
Haha. that's true. the only problem is the higher your income, the more you will have to give to the local government!

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Silk McCue » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:26 pm

Any chance you could find a more vibrant place to live in Texas and just visit NY more often. Maybe some extended stays in an AirBnB so that you can enjoy the city from time to time.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

It is illegal. Scofflaws do not transform something illegal into being legal.

I understood you meant to suggest that OP rent the apartment to others through Airbnb when not in town. I wanted to point out doing so is beyond the bounds of the law, to let OP know what he would be getting into.

The legislation in the link I provided specifies the fines for the first and each subsequent offense.

PJW
The internet says that you are not entirely correct. There are exceptions to the law, although it is clear that the legal/political climate is not friendly to short term rentals.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... -city.html
From your link:
How to: Airbnb in New York City wrote: Unhosted Short-Term Rentals in Multi-Family Buildings Flatly Prohibited
And it isn't even related to the enacted law I exhibited, repeated here for your convenience. Advertising itself is newly prohibited.

If you wish to change the subject from OP's question and our discussion of it thus far you're free to do so. I don't know which subforum would be appropriate.

PJW

revert
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by revert » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:35 pm

jks1985 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:26 pm
Living in JC you would need both a PATH pass and an MTA pass. Would be close to $300/month for each person.
Minor nit: having to get both monthly passes is closer to $200 a month (I believe $210 after the last fare increase). Definitely nicer not having to pay for both though. 😊

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by aristotelian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 pm
aristotelian wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

It is illegal. Scofflaws do not transform something illegal into being legal.

I understood you meant to suggest that OP rent the apartment to others through Airbnb when not in town. I wanted to point out doing so is beyond the bounds of the law, to let OP know what he would be getting into.

The legislation in the link I provided specifies the fines for the first and each subsequent offense.

PJW
The internet says that you are not entirely correct. There are exceptions to the law, although it is clear that the legal/political climate is not friendly to short term rentals.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... -city.html
From your link:
How to: Airbnb in New York City wrote: Unhosted Short-Term Rentals in Multi-Family Buildings Flatly Prohibited
And it isn't even related to the enacted law I exhibited, repeated here for your convenience. Advertising itself is newly prohibited.

If you wish to change
the subject from OP's question and our discussion of it thus far you're free to do so. I don't know which subforum would be appropriate.

PJW
Not every building is a multi family building.

bhsince87
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bhsince87 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:47 pm

You might need to consider the fact that you just can't do it.

Many major cities are becoming pockets of income inequality.

It's some sort of weird paradox where the only folks who can afford to live there are those with low incomes, and those with high incomes.
Retirement: When you reach a point where you have enough. Or when you've had enough.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:57 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 pm
...
Not every building is a multi family building.
We are discussing the possibility of OP buying an apartment in a multifamily building, with the suggestion that renting it to others, while out of town, using Airbnb, would reduce his net cost. It's illegal, as I already demonstrated. Twice.

If you wish to change the subject you're free to do so. I don't know which subforum would be appropriate.

PJW

aristotelian
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by aristotelian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:09 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:57 pm
aristotelian wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 pm
...
Not every building is a multi family building.
We are discussing the possibility of OP buying an apartment in a multifamily building, with the suggestion that renting it to others, while out of town, using Airbnb, would reduce his net cost. It's illegal, as I already demonstrated to you. Twice.

I say again, if you wish to change the subject you're free to do so. I don't know which subforum would be appropriate.

PJW
I did not see that he has to be in an apartment in a multifamily building. Why can't he buy a single family home in Williamsburg etc? I am just throwing out a possibility to help solve the OP's problem. If it doesn't work, so be it. I certainly appreciate your concerns about Airbnb but also correcting some generalizations.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:04 am

broslami wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:29 pm
Living in NYC is like a dorm room for adults.

If you don't care about saving and want to spend a lot of money, then go for it. This of course doesn't apply if your income is super high.
Hoboken is the dorm room.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by technovelist » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:43 am

Silk McCue wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:26 pm
Any chance you could find a more vibrant place to live in Texas and just visit NY more often. Maybe some extended stays in an AirBnB so that you can enjoy the city from time to time.
That would be what I would do in the OPs situation.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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Pajamas
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Pajamas » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:49 am

aristotelian wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:09 pm

I did not see that he has to be in an apartment in a multifamily building. Why can't he buy a single family home in Williamsburg etc? I am just throwing out a possibility to help solve the OP's problem. If it doesn't work, so be it. I certainly appreciate your concerns about Airbnb but also correcting some generalizations.
Seems like you don't know very much about NYC-area real estate. There's not much demand on AirBnB for a $2-$4+ million single-family dwelling in Williamsburg and most people who owned one would likely not think the risk is worth the potential return even if there were. It's also unlikely that someone who lived in Jersey City but now lives in Texas who is worried about not being able to afford NYC taxes if they move there could afford to buy one in the first place.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by misterno » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:53 am

Please delete this post

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:33 am

revert wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:35 pm
jks1985 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:26 pm
Living in JC you would need both a PATH pass and an MTA pass. Would be close to $300/month for each person.
Minor nit: having to get both monthly passes is closer to $200 a month (I believe $210 after the last fare increase). Definitely nicer not having to pay for both though. 😊
Looks like you're right. $121 for a MTA pass and $89 for a PATH pass. For some reason I assumed the PATH and the MTA pass were the same $$$

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:44 am

bhsince87 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:47 pm
You might need to consider the fact that you just can't do it.

Many major cities are becoming pockets of income inequality.

It's some sort of weird paradox where the only folks who can afford to live there are those with low incomes, and those with high incomes.
You are right. In my experience, there are mainly 4 types living in NYC - the super rich, the poor (who the govt supports), the middle class who live paycheck to paycheck, and those who got a lucky break with some great housing deal.

My group of friends that is still in the city all has some type of unique housing situation that allows them to stay.
- One friend lives with his perennial unemployed girlfriend who qualified for low income housing development in a nice part of town. He earns about 70k per year, and they pay $600/month in rent, thanks to the city.
- One friend works in finance and probably makes 150k~, yet lives for 1000/month in a luxury building owned by his uncle.
- One friend has a rent control apartment that he pays 800/month for. It'd probably market for 4000/month otherwise.
- One friend has his mom pay his rent, lol.

blevine
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by blevine » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:57 am

You get what you pay for. We are the safest yet exciting large city.
Police cost money. Mass transit costs money.
Either you can afford NYC or you can't, but you'll have to pay your taxes to live here.
I happily pay high taxes, could have moved to low tax states anytime in my career and never seriously considered it.
We have great education, culture, best police force, business opportunities, you name it.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:37 pm

blevine wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:57 am
You get what you pay for. We are the safest yet exciting large city.
Police cost money. Mass transit costs money.
Either you can afford NYC or you can't, but you'll have to pay your taxes to live here.
I happily pay high taxes, could have moved to low tax states anytime in my career and never seriously considered it.
We have great education, culture, best police force, business opportunities, you name it.
I strongly disagree. Yes, its a fun city and I want to move back, but the public transit is a joke compared to other cities in the world. Public schools aren't even as good as many cities in Texas (with 0 income tax). Also, the city is filthy, probably one of the dirtiest in the country, and homelessness is out of control.

The NYC income taxes do not need to be as high as they are . Most of our tax dollars are being wasted or stolen.

Hopefully the new tax bill forces locals to question why their taxes are so high.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by aristotelian » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:49 pm

jks1985 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:44 am

You are right. In my experience, there are mainly 4 types living in NYC - the super rich, the poor (who the govt supports), the middle class who live paycheck to paycheck, and those who got a lucky break with some great housing deal.
I'm not sure it's true that the middle class lives in NYC any more. If you look on Trulia or Zillow, you either need $700K+ to live in a decent neighborhood, or you are going to live in a bad part of Brooklyn/the Bronx. All the people I know have at least one high earner in finance/corporate or two solid professional jobs. The NYC "middle class" may live paycheck to paycheck but would be considered wealthy (if not super wealthy) in any other area of the country. The last group you mentioned usually have some kind of inheritance and likely also qualify as wealthy.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Tmack101 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:37 pm

Whenever I justify my own expenses for living in Manhattan, I try to take a holistic view of my entire expenses. Sold the car. Now I have a $116/ month metro card. The utilities for my one bedroom rental are about $120 for gas/electricity and water. I like to think it evens things out a bit from a tax perspective. I understand about wanting to live in the "City", the access to such great things for what I pay in city taxes is worth it, for me.

jks1985
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:37 pm

Tmack101 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:37 pm
Whenever I justify my own expenses for living in Manhattan, I try to take a holistic view of my entire expenses. Sold the car. Now I have a $116/ month metro card. The utilities for my one bedroom rental are about $120 for gas/electricity and water. I like to think it evens things out a bit from a tax perspective. I understand about wanting to live in the "City", the access to such great things for what I pay in city taxes is worth it, for me.
It's true that some costs might decrease my living in the city.

Health insurance is pretty much the same in NYC as it is in Texas. I have to buy mine from the exchange, and it's gut wrenching in both states, so that's a wash.

I paid cash for my '14 Camry. It costs $60/month for insurance and $30/month for gas. Transportation will definitely cost more in NYC as I'll need to buy $120/month Metro cards for my wife and I. On the other and, I might be able to get $10k in cash when I sell my car and move back.

Needing to fly home to visit my family in New England will no longer be an issue, so I will save about $2000 annually there.

Food and entertainment will definitely be more expensive as we'll be going out with friends more and there will be more to do.

So basically I'll probably save about 2,000 a year in plane tickets, but probably spend 2,000 more per year in dining out and doing fun stuff. I'll probably end up paying $1400 more per year on transportation without my car. In addition, I'll end up paying about 30-40k extra in local taxes and $15,000~ more per year in rent.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by badbreath » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:48 pm

Move to Miami. You would get the tax free of Texas a lifestyle of NYC (since half of the population is from their) Flights are cheep to NYC $200 round trip
“While money can’t buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” Groucho Marx

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Ron Scott » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am

If you want to live in Manhattan, you want to live in Manhattan. I traveled extensively for 40 years and it's one of the most amazing places on the planet.

The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation.

The better approach is to tap into the local economy as best you can. A bigger income cushions the tax blow. The opportunities are breathtaking now.

We have a place there but spend less than 50% of our time in it so we're not paying city tax, but I've been a full-timer too.

Big winter-wonderland snow storm today and I'm glad I'm in town!

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by simplesimon » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:51 am

Can your wife get a job with benefits? Since you're not in high finance, a two-income household is basically a requirement.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by HomerJ » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:32 am

jks1985 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:37 pm
I strongly disagree. Yes, its a fun city and I want to move back, but the public transit is a joke compared to other cities in the world. Public schools aren't even as good as many cities in Texas (with 0 income tax). Also, the city is filthy, probably one of the dirtiest in the country, and homelessness is out of control.
Heh, why do you want to move back again?

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by WhyNotUs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:32 pm

jks1985 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:37 pm


I strongly disagree. Yes, its a fun city and I want to move back, but the public transit is a joke compared to other cities in the world. Public schools aren't even as good as many cities in Texas (with 0 income tax). Also, the city is filthy, probably one of the dirtiest in the country, and homelessness is out of control.

The NYC income taxes do not need to be as high as they are . Most of our tax dollars are being wasted or stolen.

Hopefully the new tax bill forces locals to question why their taxes are so high.
The food is bad and the portions so small :-)
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:11 pm

simplesimon wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:51 am
Can your wife get a job with benefits? Since you're not in high finance, a two-income household is basically a requirement.
That might be down the road. We are planning on having children in 2018, so I'd like her to stay at home. Daycare in the city can be 30,000/year anyways.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by jks1985 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:07 pm

Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
If you want to live in Manhattan, you want to live in Manhattan. I traveled extensively for 40 years and it's one of the most amazing places on the planet.

The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation.

The better approach is to tap into the local economy as best you can. A bigger income cushions the tax blow. The opportunities are breathtaking now.

We have a place there but spend less than 50% of our time in it so we're not paying city tax, but I've been a full-timer too.

Big winter-wonderland snow storm today and I'm glad I'm in town!
Thanks Ron! I miss being able to walk around the city after a snowstorm. I used to live near Gramercy Park. That area is breathtaking when it snows.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Ron Scott » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 am

jks1985 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:07 pm
Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
If you want to live in Manhattan, you want to live in Manhattan. I traveled extensively for 40 years and it's one of the most amazing places on the planet.

The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation.

The better approach is to tap into the local economy as best you can. A bigger income cushions the tax blow. The opportunities are breathtaking now.

We have a place there but spend less than 50% of our time in it so we're not paying city tax, but I've been a full-timer too.

Big winter-wonderland snow storm today and I'm glad I'm in town!
Thanks Ron! I miss being able to walk around the city after a snowstorm. I used to live near Gramercy Park. That area is breathtaking when it snows.
It's beautiful there. We're on W 16th, minutes from Union Square, Madison Square, Washington Square, the Village, Chelsea, SOHO and the Highline.

To be honest, the tax thing bothers the hell out of me too. My accountant makes my wife and I keep tracking software on our phones so we can prove where we are every 20 minutes! That, combined with other residences and credit card receipts, is supposed to keep the bogeyman away...

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bklyn96 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:52 am

blevine wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:57 am
You get what you pay for. We are the safest yet exciting large city.
Police cost money. Mass transit costs money.
Either you can afford NYC or you can't, but you'll have to pay your taxes to live here.
I happily pay high taxes....
We have great education, culture, best police force, business opportunities, you name it.
+1 We've been downtown Brooklyn homeowners for 34 years—the city's never been better.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by LXEX55 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:18 am

Don't! That is my advice. Some years ago, my wife and I moved to Florida, after being born and raised in NYC. For some idiot reason, we decided we missed it, and moved back. We have regretted it ever since. It is just as horrible as you remember. Cold, dirty, crowded, full of homeless people on subways and in churches, [(removed) --admin LadyGeek] and incredibly expensive. I am retiring in November and we purchased a condo in St. Pete, Florida. My advice is stay out of this toilet bowl for your own good.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by samsoes » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:56 am

I suspect after living in Texas for a number of years, your tolerance to the NY rat-race is greatly reduced. Your perception of moving back there may be tainted by nostalgia, or so it seems. I suspect you'll be back in Texas in a year or so.

Stay in TX. Similar to what an earlier poster said, visit NYC when you get the urge for rats, the smell of garbage in the summer, and high crime. (I saw a rat the size of a cocker spaniel in GC Terminal once.)
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bsteiner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:13 am

Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
...
The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation. ...
Commuting days count. Mr. Barker lived in Connecticut, worked in Manhattan, and had a home in the Hamptons where he spent about 20 days a year. That was enough to make him a NY State (though not NYC) for income tax purposes, since he had a home in NY State and was physically present in NY State (even though not at his NY home) more than 183 days. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... 24.det.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... et.rem.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 24.dec.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 4.ord2.pdf.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Ron Scott » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:00 am

bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:13 am
Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
...
The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation. ...
Commuting days count. Mr. Barker lived in Connecticut, worked in Manhattan, and had a home in the Hamptons where he spent about 20 days a year. That was enough to make him a NY State (though not NYC) for income tax purposes, since he had a home in NY State and was physically present in NY State (even though not at his NY home) more than 183 days. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... 24.det.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... et.rem.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 24.dec.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 4.ord2.pdf.
State; we're talking city. You can have a home on Long Island, commute to work in Hoboken and maintain a place in the city. If you only commute from the island directly to work through the city that commute does not count as a day in the city. If you deviate, e.g., for a drink at a city bar, it counts. Same holds for flying in/out of LGA/JFK.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Isabelle77 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:51 am

jks1985 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:11 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:51 am
Can your wife get a job with benefits? Since you're not in high finance, a two-income household is basically a requirement.
That might be down the road. We are planning on having children in 2018, so I'd like her to stay at home. Daycare in the city can be 30,000/year anyways.
Having children in the city is A LOT different than living there as DINKS. We lived in NYC for 5 years, moved to TN and hated it. We took our toddler with us back to NYC and thought about moving back. Four days in the city with an 18mth old and we decided never. Not only just the logistics of getting a child (I can't even comprehend more than 1) around the city (subways, cabs, strollers) but then you're playing the NYC school game. Are you on the right lists for preschool? Have you figured out which magnet program your child can get into? If not, do you have 50K a year for private school? I just couldn't do any of it.

We left Nashville and moved to Portland, OR which is kind of a nice middle ground. I know you really weren't asking for this kind of advice (sorry) but if you're not going to be able to live like the very wealthy in NYC and especially if you want kids, I just wouldn't do it.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bsteiner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am

Ron Scott wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:00 am
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:13 am
Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
...
The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation. ...
Commuting days count. Mr. Barker lived in Connecticut, worked in Manhattan, and had a home in the Hamptons where he spent about 20 days a year. That was enough to make him a NY State (though not NYC) for income tax purposes, since he had a home in NY State and was physically present in NY State (even though not at his NY home) more than 183 days. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... 24.det.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... et.rem.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 24.dec.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 4.ord2.pdf.
State; we're talking city. You can have a home on Long Island, commute to work in Hoboken and maintain a place in the city. If you only commute from the island directly to work through the city that commute does not count as a day in the city. If you deviate, e.g., for a drink at a city bar, it counts. Same holds for flying in/out of LGA/JFK.
Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bsteiner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:01 am

Isabelle77 wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:51 am
...
Having children in the city is A LOT different than living there as DINKS. We lived in NYC for 5 years, moved to TN and hated it. We took our toddler with us back to NYC and thought about moving back. Four days in the city with an 18mth old and we decided never. Not only just the logistics of getting a child (I can't even comprehend more than 1) around the city (subways, cabs, strollers) ...
Obviously not a toddler, but an older child not old enough to drive can walk to many places in NYC and get to many other places in NYC by subway whereas in many other places he/she is dependent on a parent being able to drive him/her around.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:34 am

samsoes wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:56 am


Stay in TX. Similar to what an earlier poster said, visit NYC when you get the urge for rats, the smell of garbage in the summer, and high crime. (I saw a rat the size of a cocker spaniel in GC Terminal once.)
Texas has some impressive critters, too. Snakes anyone?

High crime?

New York City has something like the 30th highest crime rate of American cities.

On this list, sorted by total crime rate, I found

Houston 966.7
Dallas 694.2
New York City 585.5

Austin, Texas, is quite a bit safer than NYC by reported crime rate.

These are FBI 2009 numbers. New York's murder rate has fallen significantly since then. However I deliberately didn't sort by murder rate (NYC looks even better if you).

Of course if you live in Texas, you drive everywhere, and that's greater risk of death in a car accident.https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/ ... _rate.html tells me that Texas is 9.1 motor vehicle occupants vs. NY State which is 3.2.

I might suggest to the original poster that if they are afraid of crime, they move *out* of the terribly dangerous and crime ridden Texas, and move back to the safety of New York City ;-) :sharebeer

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by samsoes » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:37 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:34 am

I might suggest to the original poster that if they are afraid of crime, they move *out* of the terribly dangerous and crime ridden Texas, and move back to the safety of New York City ;-) :sharebeer
In that NYC, Spock has a beard and the mounted police ride unicorns.
:happy
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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Tanelorn » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am
Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.
And worse, if you qualify as a NYS/NYC resident based on property ownership and working there, you may still count as a resident in NJ or CT were you spend 90%+ of your nights and were you actually live. This can lead to situations where your home state doesn't think you're a NY resident under their rules, and so you can't deduct the taxes you pay NY and you end up getting taxed at full rate by both states. And you thought one 10% tax rate was bad enough...

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by bsteiner » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Tanelorn wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am
Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.
And worse, if you qualify as a NYS/NYC resident based on property ownership and working there, you may still count as a resident in NJ or CT were you spend 90%+ of your nights and were you actually live. This can lead to situations where your home state doesn't think you're a NY resident under their rules, and so you can't deduct the taxes you pay NY and you end up getting taxed at full rate by both states. And you thought one 10% tax rate was bad enough...
Either would allow a credit with respect to the NY source income.

NJ would allow a credit for the NY tax on the intangible income (subject to the usual limitations), but I don't think CT would.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by rmelvey » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:14 pm

New York is one of the places where you feel crazy paying such high rent/taxes, but as soon as you leave you realize there is no substitute. If you want to live this life you need to pay the price. Try to just enjoy it. Money is a tool to help you live the life you want.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by technovelist » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:59 pm

rmelvey wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:14 pm
New York is one of the places where you feel crazy paying such high rent/taxes, but as soon as you leave you realize there is no substitute. If you want to live this life you need to pay the price. Try to just enjoy it. Money is a tool to help you live the life you want.
I've lived in NYC (although in Queens, not in Manhattan), and you are right that as soon as you leave there realize there is no substitute.

Other than possibly the Black Hole of Calcutta, if that's still around.

I left in 1996 and have gone back only once to visit. I miss it as much as I do my bout of shingles.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Pajamas » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:02 pm

technovelist wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:59 pm
I left in 1996 and have gone back only once to visit. I miss it as much as I do my bout of shingles.
NYC has changed quite a bit since 1996, mostly for the better. But it is certainly not appealing to everyone.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by mws13 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:12 pm

rmelvey wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:14 pm
New York is one of the places where you feel crazy paying such high rent/taxes, but as soon as you leave you realize there is no substitute. If you want to live this life you need to pay the price. Try to just enjoy it. Money is a tool to help you live the life you want.
And it is pretty hard to lose money on NYC real estate if you hold for 10+ years. Not as liquid as a Vanguard fund, but it works.

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Re: How can I move back to NYC with such high taxes? (State/City tax, Unincorporated Business Tax)

Post by Ron Scott » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:11 pm

bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:59 am
Ron Scott wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:00 am
bsteiner wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:13 am
Ron Scott wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:39 am
...
The only legal way to avoid city income tax is to spend less than 180 days a year there, not counting commutation. ...
Commuting days count. Mr. Barker lived in Connecticut, worked in Manhattan, and had a home in the Hamptons where he spent about 20 days a year. That was enough to make him a NY State (though not NYC) for income tax purposes, since he had a home in NY State and was physically present in NY State (even though not at his NY home) more than 183 days. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... 24.det.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Dete ... et.rem.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 24.dec.pdf. https://www.dta.ny.gov/pdf/archive/Deci ... 4.ord2.pdf.
State; we're talking city. You can have a home on Long Island, commute to work in Hoboken and maintain a place in the city. If you only commute from the island directly to work through the city that commute does not count as a day in the city. If you deviate, e.g., for a drink at a city bar, it counts. Same holds for flying in/out of LGA/JFK.
Correct. However, most often the taxpayer works in NYC. For example, I live in NJ and work in Manhattan. If I bought a home in the Hamptons and stayed there 20 days a year like Mr. Barker, I'd be taxable as a NYS resident. If I bought an apartment in NYC and stayed there when the weather was bad (like last night), I'd be taxable as a NYC resident.

Only if you stayed in the city for more than 182 days...

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