opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

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Pigeon
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Pigeon » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:20 pm

State school. The private school won't get her a different salary as a nurse. Use the $160K for grad school, a house or whatever else she wants, if you still have that much to spare after educating your son. I will confess to be a huge fan of state schools.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:43 pm

getthatmarshmallow wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:49 pm
[Disclaimer: I attended private colleges as a scholarship student, but I am employed (not as a nursing instructor) at a state school with a great nursing program. ]

$0.02: First, congratulations to your daughter. This is a good problem to be having, and one that's the result in part of her hard work. She should be proud! And she's not going to be in debt, no matter what, so she'll be launched well.

Second, a couple of things you might want to consider: how set is she on nursing as a career? What might catch her eye during her general education studies? What if she changes her mind because she falls in love with economics, or biology? Which college gives her more flexibility?

If she attends the state school, will she be admitted into the nursing program, or will she first enter a general program of studies and then apply to nursing as part of a competitive admissions process?

If she is considering advanced nursing degrees/specializations, which school will set her up better for graduate work? Will you also fund graduate work, or if you pay for undergrad, will she need to fund grad school via loans?

Another $0.02: there is very likely to be little difference in the educational experience that she'll get. Bright students, IME, do well anywhere. So the real question, to my mind, is whether the Jesuit collegiate experience (the culture, the friends, the formation, the opportunities) are worth the extra cost.
Excellent post!

Maya1234
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Maya1234 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:12 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:43 pm
getthatmarshmallow wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:49 pm
[Disclaimer: I attended private colleges as a scholarship student, but I am employed (not as a nursing instructor) at a state school with a great nursing program. ]

$0.02: First, congratulations to your daughter. This is a good problem to be having, and one that's the result in part of her hard work. She should be proud! And she's not going to be in debt, no matter what, so she'll be launched well.

Second, a couple of things you might want to consider: how set is she on nursing as a career? What might catch her eye during her general education studies? What if she changes her mind because she falls in love with economics, or biology? Which college gives her more flexibility?

If she attends the state school, will she be admitted into the nursing program, or will she first enter a general program of studies and then apply to nursing as part of a competitive admissions process?

If she is considering advanced nursing degrees/specializations, which school will set her up better for graduate work? Will you also fund graduate work, or if you pay for undergrad, will she need to fund grad school via loans?

Another $0.02: there is very likely to be little difference in the educational experience that she'll get. Bright students, IME, do well anywhere. So the real question, to my mind, is whether the Jesuit collegiate experience (the culture, the friends, the formation, the opportunities) are worth the extra cost.
Excellent post!

You should be aware that many direct entry nursing programs ( and I would avoid any others) don’t have any gen ed courses. No Econ course. The biology class will be one exclusively designed for nursing students. There will very likely be a stats class (because the mother of health stats is Florence Nightengale). Most 4 year nursing programs are lock step programs. There is little ability to choose something else at least not easily.

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beyou
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by beyou » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm

I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.

InMyDreams
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by InMyDreams » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:35 pm

staustin wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:41 pm
...These schools though do not offer merit aid; need based aide only...
Think outside the box? What private scholarships exist? Google on the internet, but one place you might look is peointernational.org. Also, there will be a state PEO chapter, which will have additional grants and scholarships. Also, it might be worth searching for nursing-specific scholarships.

texasdiver
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by texasdiver » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:23 pm

The big assumption here is that the HS daughter will continue to stick with a career choice made at age...17? If by her sophomore year she decides nursing is not for her, then what? Is the school she is attending broad-based enough and her education broad-based enough for her to successfully move into a different major?

I would lean towards the more expensive private school if it provides a wider range of opportunities and career paths and the connections to pursue those different paths. We aren't talking about parents who are going to have to take out a second mortgage or otherwise sacrifice to make this happen.

I would want my daughter to go to the school that presents her with both the widest range of opportunities and the means to achieve them.

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?

DidItMyWay
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DidItMyWay » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:17 pm

It's funny that I came here and read this, because I have been pondering a similar issue. In fact, our circumstances are very similar, except my annual income is significantly less than yours, my daughter is an only child, and she is a year away from making this decision.

In my case, I opted to send her to public school for k-12, partially because I wanted to save as much as possible for her college and beyond. I've been a Boglehead before I even heard of Bogleheads :) , so I have saved and accumulated over the last several years.

If she gets accepted to one of her "dream" schools, I plan to make it happen for her. If this comes to pass, I plan on working full-time an additional 4-7 years to cash flow as much as possible and will gladly write those tuition checks. (This means instead of retiring from working full-time at around age 52 as originally planned, I would work full-time until around age 56-59.)

Financially speaking, yes, the ROI by attending the state school is probably better; however, there are intangibles that can't be measured in money. Also, not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but the quality of her undergrad institution is something that will likely be considered by grad school admissions officers.

If your income and investments were much less, I would probably have a different opinion. However, based on the numbers you provided, you can afford to give your daughter this gift. I would say go for it with no regrets, especially if the schools are Georgetown and Notre Dame (which I am just guessing based on your description.) I don't think you will regret it.

And congrats to your daughter on her outstanding achievement. No doubt she will excel at whatever school you all decide on.

MikeR289
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by MikeR289 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:35 pm

:happy
Last edited by MikeR289 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm

DidItMyWay wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:17 pm
It's funny that I came here and read this, because I have been pondering a similar issue. In fact, our circumstances are very similar, except my annual income is significantly less than yours, my daughter is an only child, and she is a year away from making this decision.

In my case, I opted to send her to public school for k-12, partially because I wanted to save as much as possible for her college and beyond. I've been a Boglehead before I even heard of Bogleheads :) , so I have saved and accumulated over the last several years.

If she gets accepted to one of her "dream" schools, I plan to make it happen for her. If this comes to pass, I plan on working full-time an additional 4-7 years to cash flow as much as possible and will gladly write those tuition checks. (This means instead of retiring from working full-time at around age 52 as originally planned, I would work full-time until around age 56-59.)

Financially speaking, yes, the ROI by attending the state school is probably better; however, there are intangibles that can't be measured in money. Also, not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but the quality of her undergrad institution is something that will likely be considered by grad school admissions officers.

If your income and investments were much less, I would probably have a different opinion. However, based on the numbers you provided, you can afford to give your daughter this gift. I would say go for it with no regrets, especially if the schools are Georgetown and Notre Dame (which I am just guessing based on your description.) I don't think you will regret it.

And congrats to your daughter on her outstanding achievement. No doubt she will excel at whatever school you all decide on.
While I agree with you in some on some points, when it comes to grad schools it gets you so far, and to be honest you will be hard pressed to convince many that Georgetown or Notre Dame, would be better than a state school like Michigan, UVA, Berkeley, etc.... BUT to each his own.

DidItMyWay
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DidItMyWay » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:24 pm

voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm
While I agree with you in some on some points, when it comes to grad schools it gets you so far, and to be honest you will be hard pressed to convince many that Georgetown or Notre Dame, would be better than a state school like Michigan, UVA, Berkeley, etc.... BUT to each his own.
Oh, I definitely agree with you. Personally, I would regard all five schools mentioned above as more or less equivalent in terms of all being excellent schools with great reputations. It definitely depends on the state.
Last edited by DidItMyWay on Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

getthatmarshmallow
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Notre Dame isn't Jesuit. [/nitpick]

ny_knicks
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by ny_knicks » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:40 pm

I post on most nursing threads but this one definitely hit a nerve.

Nursing may be one of the highest returning undergraduate professions out there right out of school (it goes up quick and caps off at a very respectable # in my mind just need to live in the right spot). My GF is "just a nurse". Out of undergrad started @ $80k. 5 years out of school working ~50 hours a week on average she will hit close to $140k. Maxes 401k, maxes roth, has a very strong pension, pays absolutely nothing for health insurance, gets 6 weeks off a year and has unreal job security (ie. will never lose her job). Did I mention they are paying for her to get her doctorate degree part-time at a top NP program (ivy league)? Not bad for 27.

I guess some posters are right though your daughter might get the wrong idea of what is possible w/ just a nursing degree. Will she be pulling in a CEOs salary. No. But she won't be living on the streets either.

Not everyone ends up a doctor...but that doesn't mean they all wanted to either.

Rant over.

Now for my recommendation for the OP. There isn't a benefit to what school you attend in nursing. Get good grades, pass your boards and go to a decent state school and you can likely get a job at any hospital in the U.S. if you want. For graduate school (especially CRNA) it will likely matter a bit more. But I am not sure the incremental benefit is worth $160k.

3feetpete
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by 3feetpete » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:49 pm

I was in almost the exact same situation 6 years ago. Daughter decided to go to state college and never regretted it. Had a terrific experience. Fact is that two years after graduation nobody cares what college you went to.

That said it would be best if you lead her into making the decision rather than dictating. You could sweeten the deal by offering something in addition to paying for college. Maybe a car or some other thing she values. I offered to pay for international travel and my daughter jumped at it. She has a frugal mind set anyway so it was not too hard a sell.

I also had some people that were in the state school talk to her about it.

My daughters take away from the entire college experience is that it matters little which school you go to. It matters a lot how much you put into it.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

GreenGrowTheDollars
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by GreenGrowTheDollars » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:30 pm

I start with another question:

Are all of the schools in question "direct entry" programs where you are admitted as a freshman to the nursing program, and as long as you get satisfactory grades in your courses, in four years you graduate with a BSN?

Most Catholic colleges with nursing programs are direct entry. Many public colleges are not. For example, in my state, there is no public 4-year institution with direct entry nursing available. Without direct entry, you should gather information on what it takes to advance into the actual nursing program, the percentage of students who do advance, and whether advancement is guaranteed for students meeting certain criteria or if it is a secret selection process by the college.

Most of the time, I'd go for direct entry if that was a feasible option.

On a secondary level, I'd investigate the percentage of BSN graduates who go into advanced practice nursing from the different schools, and the percentage of grads from the last couple of classes who gained hospital nursing positions immediately after graduation.

I'd also look at the associated hospital(s) where the majority of the hands-on training is conducted, and consider the reputation of those institutions.

Nursing is a hard admission and your daughter sounds very talented. Congratulations!

DarthSage
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DarthSage » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:51 pm

I wanted to add a few more thoughts about my daughter, the teacher, that I talked about up-thread.

First of all, we did require her to take out student loans (only subsidized). I know that Bogleheads, generally, run from student loans like a vampire fleeing sunlight, but we had our reasons: we wanted her to have skin in the game, especially if she was going the pricey school route. She had a grandmother willing to foot her entire college bill--we didn't feel it was fair to ask Grandma to pony up the entire higher bill. In addition, our daughter has a trust fund--she tapped this some for college, but still has a good amount--more than enough to pay off her loans, should she choose. We wanted her to be able to see how she had choices, but there were consequences.

In addition, we insisted that she work, part time during the school year, full-time in summer. Had she gone to the cheaper college, she could have traveled, taken classes, done an internship, etc.

Our daughter also passed on her school's honors program (she was offered this at several schools). She felt it was more work and prestige, but neither was going to actually help her be a better teacher. Her choice, and not doing it, didn't seem to hurt her.

One last thought--we all got a fair amount of crap from other parents for allowing our child to "aim so low". with her stats, why--she could be a lawyer or go into finance or do something more lucrative. Translation: Why is such a bright child going to settle for being "only a teacher"? Well, that kid was born to be a teacher. She was naturally a good teacher, and with training, has become an excellent one. Her students deserve an intelligent, passionate, involved teacher who truly cares about their future. We couldn't be prouder!

Isabelle77
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Isabelle77 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:35 pm

Just a quick note on the nurse vs doctor debate earlier up in the thread. My closest friend and one of the smartest people I know is a nurse anesthetist, mostly in the OB. She makes something like 300K a year, helps deliver babies, loves her job, and swears she has half the headaches of the physicians she works with.

DidItMyWay
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DidItMyWay » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:54 pm

getthatmarshmallow wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:02 pm
Notre Dame isn't Jesuit. [/nitpick]
Oh true. I was just thinking about Catholic schools with low acceptance rates, but you're right.

gluskap
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by gluskap » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:19 pm

Having gone to a state school I may be biased but I felt like I had an excellent education and I was able to graduate without debt which gave me a great head start in life. I didn’t think the extra cost for private university was worth it. Especially in nursing where her starting pay and ability to get a job won’t really depend on the school she went to. Other majors like business might make more sense to pay extra for a prestigious school if it means better chance of a higher starting salary job. That $160k could go towards her graduate school or towards down payment on a house. You also have a second kid to worry about. Maybe if you really enjoy working and think you can afford all of that for both kids then maybe. Personally I don’t like working that much and early retirement for me is more important. I think also that having your daughter make tough decisions will make her appreciate the money more than if everything is just handed to her.

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beyou
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by beyou » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm

voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:33 am

blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
If the tech is MIT, I agree I would be inclined to make it happen,

2stepsbehind
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by 2stepsbehind » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am

blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
In my experience, many "mega public unis" have honors programs that aim to provide smaller seminars, research opportunities, mentorship, and sometimes registration priority to their "best and brightest" students. This in turn gives students both the experience of a smaller liberal arts school with the resources a large university can provide. All of these "super bright" students could have gone to "elite" schools. And frankly even without these university interventions, it is not difficult to identify and associate with other high achievers.

As diverse as you think the socioeconomic makeup of the schools you reference above, I think you'd be hard pressed to match that up with most flagship publics. Haven't heard of a lot of partying taking place in the honors colleges I am aware of but ymmv.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:37 am

If the tech is MIT, I agree I would be inclined to make it happen
Or CalTech, or CMU, or Harvey Mudd, or . . .
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

TwstdSista
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TwstdSista » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:00 am

We had family friends who faced a similar situation. The HS student's dream was [Ivy]. He also got a full-ride to [excellent state school]. They could absolutely afford [Ivy], and the HS student could have even written his own checks if he wanted. But Dad convinced him to go to [excellent state school].

She loved it! Let's Go [excellent state school]!

And, for the record, he then got a full scholarship to [top institute of technology] for his Masters and is currently finishing up his PhD at [different Ivy]....

It's a personal choice. And a tough one. My own kid threw away a free-ride for a half-ride at a small private school. As much as I hated it, that was actually probably best for her.

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:59 am

2stepsbehind wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am
blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
In my experience, many "mega public unis" have honors programs that aim to provide smaller seminars, research opportunities, mentorship, and sometimes registration priority to their "best and brightest" students. This in turn gives students both the experience of a smaller liberal arts school with the resources a large university can provide. All of these "super bright" students could have gone to "elite" schools. And frankly even without these university interventions, it is not difficult to identify and associate with other high achievers.

As diverse as you think the socioeconomic makeup of the schools you reference above, I think you'd be hard pressed to match that up with most flagship publics. Haven't heard of a lot of partying taking place in the honors colleges I am aware of but ymmv.
My best buddy who is chairman of ER dept at U of Arkansas, they live in little Rock, daughter got a selected for the Bolden Scholarship Honors program, full tuition and stipend, you are right its like a small liberal arts school great experiences from what I hear, she got in Northewestern, U of Chicago, and some other big ones. She doesn't regret her choice at all and her dad isn't complaining , lol

NJdad6
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by NJdad6 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 pm

2stepsbehind wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am
blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
In my experience, many "mega public unis" have honors programs that aim to provide smaller seminars, research opportunities, mentorship, and sometimes registration priority to their "best and brightest" students. This in turn gives students both the experience of a smaller liberal arts school with the resources a large university can provide. All of these "super bright" students could have gone to "elite" schools. And frankly even without these university interventions, it is not difficult to identify and associate with other high achievers.

As diverse as you think the socioeconomic makeup of the schools you reference above, I think you'd be hard pressed to match that up with most flagship publics. Haven't heard of a lot of partying taking place in the honors colleges I am aware of but ymmv.
Agree. Many of the Honors programs at highly rated state schools are filled with kids that have ivy stats. In fact most have turned down the ivy to attend the State U Honors programs. They typically have separate dorms and many "group" activities. There are many reasons to pick one school over the other but saying that there are few smart, dedicated students at highly rated state schools is just not true.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Yankuba » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:50 pm

fourwaystreet wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:39 pm
My vote would be for the state school route. My daughter chose a competitive BSRN program at a SUNY school over an equally competitive New York State private school. She never regretted the decision and the all in cost for her BSRN was less than 40k (2007 grad) Fast forward five years, DD obtained her NP with full tuition paid for by her employer with no strings attached. Fast forward another five years DD is now a published Advanced Oncology Certified ANP, who never works weekends or holidays, It seems DD gets more recruiter calls than I get pieces of junk mail.

as a side note dream schools do not always meet the hype of the dream once you get on campus. I should know I went to three different what I thought we dream schools before finishing my college education.

Best of luck and congrats
+1

I went to my "dream school" and dropped out after one semester. If the private school doesn't guarantee a better first job out of college then save the money and go to the state school. Then give the child the money for a house or for graduate school.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by stoptothink » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:05 pm

There isn't even a debate that ROI on the more expensive school isn't there if the career goal is nursing. It doesn't even need to be discussed, it is a fact and my anecdotes (as someone who has hired countless nurses and has two in their family) are pointless. So, eliminate that and decide if the other factors are worth the cost. Personally, it isn't even a question in my mind that it isn't, but I am not OP or the daughter. My opinion is OP is well off, but not to the point where the $160k delta isn't significant, but again, I ain't the OP.

student
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by student » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:22 pm

Speaking as someone who works in higher education, I would say enroll in state school. However, please check the job placement rates of different schools.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by quantAndHold » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:15 pm

Wife is a nurse, worked in the field for many years. She got a graduate degree in nursing, and ended her career as a nurse practitioner.

Roughly, how education works in the context of a nursing career is that if she wants to spend her career as a "hands on" RN, a RN from a community college all she needs. A BSN is less hands on, and usually leads, after some work experience, to nursing management. Advanced practice nurses (nurse practitioner and the like) have an RN, a Bachelor's degree in something that may or may not be nursing, several years of work experience as a nurse, then a master's degree in the appropriate nursing specialty. If she's considering a graduate degree for any reason, the usual path is to work for several years first. At the time my wife applied to grad school, she had a RN from a community college program, a BS in another field (where she had terrible grades at a mediocre state school), low GRE scores, and about 10 years of solid work experience. They accepted her into the program on the basis of her work experience, and she did well in the graduate program at a top regional school.

Anyway, this is all a really long way around to saying that what school she chooses for her BSN will likely have little if any impact on her pay or career prospects. So your choice is really about whether or not it's worth it to you and to her to pay that money for what seems likely to be an upgraded "college experience."

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (college).
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Zephyrpilot » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:50 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:51 am
why nursing instead of pursuing medicine? am I wrong in assuming that a student who does not think he is good enough to get in medical school would concentrate on getting in to nursing? I know am killing lots of sacred cows here but if I see somebody who wants to go to the worlds best vocational technical school, I am going to tell them "why not go for engineering school instead?"

Some of the respondents are already talking about being NP or physician's assistant as career? why short-change her career?

or am I completely off-field here? coming from a culture where having your kid get in to a medical school is like winning a billion dollar lottery, may be my views are completely warped. If so, tell me that.

But as far as answer to the original question, of course OP can afford it and should allow his daughter to go to the school that she wants aka it should NOT be prevented because of the cost. I bet he can even put her through making her brain surgeon if she desires without any school loan.
+1

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by RetiredCSProf » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:30 pm

Runner01 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 pm
If you send her to the $65k/yr school it seems to me like you are setting your daughter up for unrealistic expectations in life given she is pursuing a career in nursing. She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. That is, unless you expect her to marry rich or you are going to subsidize her lifestyle after graduation.
Runnero1: Would you have written this if the OP were talking about his son's education? e.g., "...unless you expect your son to marry rich and you are going to subsidize his lifestyle after graduation."

I have taught at both state and private universities, including a private Jesuit school. I've had bright, dedicated students at both state and private schools, and students who fell behind in both. Not all my students at the Jesuit school were from wealthy families. One student was paying for school from his savings as a child actor. Another student had free tuition because his parents were full-time professors at the school. One student was commuting 30 miles from her home and working 20 hours a week for an accountant. The stress of her job and her commute (an old car that kept breaking down) had a negative impact on her studies. As long as you can afford your daughter's dream school and not place her in a stressful situation to make the finances work, then go with her first choice.

Plan to give your son the same choice as you give your daughter. My Dad did not keep it even -- he sent my brother to M.I.T., while sending my sister and I to the state public university because of his antiquated thinking that girls went to college to find a rich husband. He repeated his choice years later, paying for my bother to go to medical school, while I paid for my grad school education.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by beyou » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:37 am

NJdad6 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 pm
2stepsbehind wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am
blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm
blevine wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 pm
I went through this decision twice and at this very moment reaping the rewards of our decision to pay for two elite private schools.
My youngest is now studying for a final exam in a very difficult class tomorrow morning.
He is studying with and learning from some very bright kids.
He has helped them in classes where he was strongest, and today getting help in a class he found very challenging.
The quality of the student body at his school far outstrips the mega-public unis that would have cost me less than half.
The whole point is to learn and you don't just learn from profs, you can learn from other students too, if surrounded by bright students.
Both my kids met super bright kids of many different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Both were highly influenced towards achievement, rather than partying, at their respective schools.
I am sure they could have found a few peers at our mega public unis, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack comparatively.

Also note happiness and fit are very helpful and can make a huge difference in a kid realizing their potential vs wasting the opportunity.
You have to try and determine where they will flourish and go with it. Not easy, but this is not just an ROI decision with a simple to measure
return.
What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
In my experience, many "mega public unis" have honors programs that aim to provide smaller seminars, research opportunities, mentorship, and sometimes registration priority to their "best and brightest" students. This in turn gives students both the experience of a smaller liberal arts school with the resources a large university can provide. All of these "super bright" students could have gone to "elite" schools. And frankly even without these university interventions, it is not difficult to identify and associate with other high achievers.

As diverse as you think the socioeconomic makeup of the schools you reference above, I think you'd be hard pressed to match that up with most flagship publics. Haven't heard of a lot of partying taking place in the honors colleges I am aware of but ymmv.
Agree. Many of the Honors programs at highly rated state schools are filled with kids that have ivy stats. In fact most have turned down the ivy to attend the State U Honors programs. They typically have separate dorms and many "group" activities. There are many reasons to pick one school over the other but saying that there are few smart, dedicated students at highly rated state schools is just not true.
S1 transfered from honors program at large public uni, gave up full tuition merit to go to an Ivy soph year. The honors program had many nice perks, but definitely meeting more, brighter kids at the Ivy. Costing me more but seems worth it. S2 turned down half tuition merit at a really large public uni, gets very personal attention at his mid size private, from day 1. Friends getting internships at the likes of Intel and other similar places. His tech school has graduates that flew on the Apollo mission, ran the Apollo program for NASA, invented the digital camra & email, founded major tech companies and more.

The question for OP, does this matter for your child and their goals, career aspirations. Nursing is not tech, invesment banking etc. This kid may not need the motivation of peers. Profs are all PhD at public or private, use same textbooks, likley have similar career opportunities. But if the environment is inspiring, motivating, joyful, may help rise above just getting a nursing job. Maybe they will do extraordinary things in addition to a good job.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by NJdad6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:04 am

blevine wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:37 am
NJdad6 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 pm
2stepsbehind wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am
blevine wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:46 pm
voodoo72 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

What schools are these? ARe these Ivy LEague Schools?
One Ivy. Other a top tech school.
In my experience, many "mega public unis" have honors programs that aim to provide smaller seminars, research opportunities, mentorship, and sometimes registration priority to their "best and brightest" students. This in turn gives students both the experience of a smaller liberal arts school with the resources a large university can provide. All of these "super bright" students could have gone to "elite" schools. And frankly even without these university interventions, it is not difficult to identify and associate with other high achievers.

As diverse as you think the socioeconomic makeup of the schools you reference above, I think you'd be hard pressed to match that up with most flagship publics. Haven't heard of a lot of partying taking place in the honors colleges I am aware of but ymmv.
Agree. Many of the Honors programs at highly rated state schools are filled with kids that have ivy stats. In fact most have turned down the ivy to attend the State U Honors programs. They typically have separate dorms and many "group" activities. There are many reasons to pick one school over the other but saying that there are few smart, dedicated students at highly rated state schools is just not true.
S1 transfered from honors program at large public uni, gave up full tuition merit to go to an Ivy soph year. The honors program had many nice perks, but definitely meeting more, brighter kids at the Ivy. Costing me more but seems worth it. S2 turned down half tuition merit at a really large public uni, gets very personal attention at his mid size private, from day 1. Friends getting internships at the likes of Intel and other similar places. His tech school has graduates that flew on the Apollo mission, ran the Apollo program for NASA, invented the digital camra & email, founded major tech companies and more.

The question for OP, does this matter for your child and their goals, career aspirations. Nursing is not tech, invesment banking etc. This kid may not need the motivation of peers. Profs are all PhD at public or private, use same textbooks, likley have similar career opportunities. But if the environment is inspiring, motivating, joyful, may help rise above just getting a nursing job. Maybe they will do extraordinary things in addition to a good job.
Not disagreeing that top private schools have smart kids. Top state schools also have very smart kids in their honors programs with stats that match the ivies. These programs turn out very qualified candidates for medical school, grad school, etc. I am sure that these universities can also list accomplished alumni as well.

There is no right answer here. You have to know the student and pick an environment they will thrive in. Cost also comes into play of course. Sounds like you are very fortunate to have smart, hard working kids. You should be very proud of them.

I am going through this with my son who is a HS senior. He has 2 full tuition offers from large state honors programs so far (found out about one yesterday). Also has a 1/2 tuition merit offer from a top 30 private. Expecting additional acceptance from top 20 schools but will not receive any merit (they are need based only). We will work with him to pick the school that we believe will best set him up for medical school acceptance (wanted to be a doctor since 5th grade). Unfortunately it probably will not be the State U. My hope is to fully fund undergrad and medical school so scholarships will be very much appreciated.

Best of luck to the OP. This is a great problem to have and I am sure your daughter will be successful no matter what school she chooses.

plolinger
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by plolinger » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:08 am

First congratulations to your daughter for choosing nursing and to you for being able to start her out on the right path. I have been in the profession for 8 years. Next, I would talk to a few older nurses who have seen a little of everything, they will have opinions on where to go, and what nurses in your area come to the hospital most prepared out of college. If this decision were mine, I am a state school person but that is my two cents. I guess I wanted to pass over the school debate and be honest about what she is heading into... A career that can be in one day the most awesome thing and the saddest thing that anyone can think about in less than 12 hours.

I don't know what kind of relationship that you have with your daughter, and how comfortable you are with uncomfortable talks but this career has a mental strain you can't prepare for when choosing between state and private school. It is incredibly stressful and demanding and takes loads of the right stuff between her ears. It is referred to as grit, does she have enough to keep coming back and get better in difficult situations. Nurses have an immense amount of impact on peoples lives, and as a result we get to see both the best and worst times in peoples lives. Seeing nursing for what it can be, may change her mind, and as a parent, I want you to be prepared for that. It is 12 hour shifts that start 30 minutes before my scheduled start time and can end 30 minutes after I am scheduled to leave but occasionally end 2 and 3 hours later. That leaves only 9 hours for a drive home, shower sleeping and a return back to do it all over again. If I were in your shoes, I would make clear to her about one thing that she won't escape with her future career... Death. Kids, adults, teens, 20-60somethings, Grandmas, grandpas, moms, dads, and babies ... they all die, and she will have the chance to be there with people during some of their most difficult moments. She may develop the skills to pull these same people from the brink of death, but she will not be able to escape the eventuality of someone passing away. Your kid will build a mental makeup to be able to deal in peoples "worst days" and not let it affect her. I hope that she finds the school that allows her the most clinical hours possible and the most time working directly with patients and families. Please don't take this as a reason to dissuade her from the job, but as a real life look at everything that goes on and the things that I still struggle with today. At the end of the day, this is what I would tell my daughters, and anyone who asked me about nursing and which school. Pick the nursing school based on the fact that in 4 years she will be right next to someone like me, now with 12 years at the bedside who might not care about where she went, but wants to see the right mix of caring, compassion, energy, and coping to deal with anything the shift can throw at us.

I hope this helps you out in some way.
Last edited by plolinger on Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:36 pm

Bogleheads:

I made an earlier recommendation to stauston who wrote the Opening Post. Nevertheless, I think we should all recognize that: "There is more than one road to Dublin" when it comes to colleges.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by KlangFool » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:51 pm

OP,

1) You are choosing a top 3 nursing school versus a state school.

2) The difference is 160K. Your daughter is smart. Will that top 3 nursing school help her that much?

So, you are choosing between investing 160K on 4 years of her life or give her that 160K to start her career and life. Which one will make a bigger difference for her? This is what I meant by ROI. Aka, what will help her the most?

Your money. Your choice.

KlangFool

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