opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

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staustin
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opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by staustin » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:41 pm

So, I seek the wisdom of the crowd.. or at least the opinion of the informed, intellingent crowd. The subject being college choice and cost. We're fortunate to have a very bright daughter. Nearly maxed her SAT, 4.2 GPA, etc. Interested at this point in pursuing a nursing degree (potentially grad school at a later date). Said daughter has been accepted to a very good, highly competitive state school at a cost of 25 per year. In addition, she has recently been accepted to two of the top three nursing programs in the nation; both with less than 15% acceptance rates. These schools though do not offer merit aid; need based aide only. Both total approximately 65 per year. The schools at 65 per year are ideal fits for daughters personality - jesuit catholic, no greek life, liberal arts foundation, etc.. we have a younger son two years remaining in high school. Very different personality, most certainly state school but will also attend a 4 year college.

Wife and i approacing 50, paid for home (350 value), $1.5MM liquid assets (no 529's or segregated savings specifically for school) no debt, income presently in the 250 - 400 range annually depending on bonuses.. We had some designs on an early retirement.

all that said,

If you're in this position do you:

- pay the cost to attend ideal private school because it's top 3 and all daughter dreams, or
- incent / require child to attend state school (which also has a top 20 nursing program)

I personally am adamantly opposed to child having debt after college. We fundamentally believe in making that investment in our children and giving them the platform to launch into life.

Your thoughts appreciated.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:52 pm

I have opted for your first option (pay the cost to attend ideal private school because it's top 3 and all daughter dreams) and have no complaints about the results. My oldest (I'm including only my 2 children with my current wife in this sample, long story) is graduating this year and has already launched well.

I personally believe that early retirement is over-rated. You have significant assets, certainly enough for a normal retirement, and could still retire "early," but perhaps not as early if you go the private route.

We tell our kids that we gave them two significant gifts:
1 - at least an undergrad degree without any student debt (as a matter of fact, oldest has earned and saved $70k+ during UG)
2 - that their parents wouldn't be knocking on their door asking them for a bailout on a failed retirement

You are well placed to gift your children both #1 and #2.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by KlangFool » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm

OP,

Is the difference worth 160K? Or, the money could be better spent on the graduate school and/or down payment for her first house? Is it worth paying 160K extra for an undergraduate degree in nursing?

If you are one of those people that could spend 200+K on your daughter and give her 200K when she graduated, I would say go ahead. If not, the answer would be no. I do not see how it could justify the ROI.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Taylor Larimore » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm

staustin:

Based on the information you provided, and assuming you have no other children, and inasmuch as you have substantial income and net worth, I suggest you "pay the cost to attend ideal private school because it's top 3 and all daughter dreams."

You are fortunate to have a smart daughter wanting to become a nurse which will provide her job satisfaction and income for the rest of her life.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:59 pm

OP, as I'm sure you've noticed previously, there are (at least) 2 camps on this issue. I doubt that anyone has moved from one side to the other after the many debates.

I like to think that even if we were less well off, we would have chosen as we have, and I have to say that there were times earlier on when our choice to go "all in" on education wasn't quite the painless choice that it is now. My friends look at me like I'm insane (and perhaps I am, but not on this) when I tell them that writing the tuition check is one of the happiest things that I do. Why else be a BH?
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by delamer » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:04 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm
OP,

Is the difference worth 160K? Or, the money could be better spent on the graduate school and/or down payment for her first house? Is it worth paying 160K extra for an undergraduate degree in nursing?

If you are one of those people that could spend 200+K on your daughter and give her 200K when she graduated, I would say go ahead. If not, the answer would be no. I do not see how it could justify the ROI.

KlangFool
My thoughts align with KlangFool’s in this situation. You would be paying $160,000 for the difference between an “A” education versus a “B+” education.

Also, do you have any information that nursing graduates of the private schools have better careers or make more money over the long run?

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by livesoft » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:05 pm

At your income level and ages, paying $65K a year is practically an afterthought. I'd pay the $65K. And it won't slow down your early retirement either.
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Yankuba
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Yankuba » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:09 pm

I vote state school. What doors will top three open that top twenty will not? If there is a big difference I will reconsider my vote but a $160k difference in the two options is a big deal.

staustin
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by staustin » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:10 pm

sincere thanks for the counsel. I'm leaning towards paying the tuition and being pleased I'm able to do it.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by abonder » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:22 pm

I think this is a winning situation regardless of the direction you/your daughter chooses. She’s fortunate to have parents who can provide financial support for her advanced schooling. Even if she ends up going to the flagship state school, she’s going to graduate debt-free with an excellent degree. If you end up deciding to pay for either, then allow her to move forward with making the decision about which college to attend based on what will fit her best. It’s wonderful to have the financial resources to choose any school but it’s still critical to pick the school that she feels best about! She’s lucky to have such generous and thoughtful parents.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Big Dog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:30 pm

Jesuit colleges offer a phenomenal education. My D attended one and to my mind, her education was 'better' than her brother's who attended one of the Ancient Eight.

If you can afford it -- and it appears that you can -- go for it. But, Klang is correct: on a pure dollars and cents ROI, it won't pan out. That being said, the collegeiate education will likely be a whole lot richer.

'Grats to her.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Taz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:39 pm

If your son wants to go to a private school or out-of-state university are you prepared to foot the bill as well? Inequity between siblings may cause problems down the road.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Runner01 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 pm

If you send her to the $65k/yr school it seems to me like you are setting your daughter up for unrealistic expectations in life given she is pursuing a career in nursing. She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. That is, unless you expect her to marry rich or you are going to subsidize her lifestyle after graduation.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by miamivice » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:55 pm

My understanding is that nursing is an in-demand field with strong work opportunities and good pay.

My perspective is that students, with good marks, who enter in-demand fields, can obtain whatever work floats their boat regardless of the name of the school they attend.

I'd probably encourage my child to save the money and attend a less expensive school, knowing that he/she could probably get a good nursing job wherever he/she was interested in.

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Watty
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Watty » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:37 am

It was a totally different situation but when my son was selecting a college one thing I looked at was what the retention and graduation rates were for different schools. Some colleges or departments within a college have surprisingly low graduation rates. You may need to dig to find those numbers for the specific nursing programs or even call the colleges to get more information about the specific nursing program she would be in.
KlangFool wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm
Is the difference worth 160K? Or, the money could be better spent on the graduate school and/or down payment for her first house? Is it worth paying 160K extra for an undergraduate degree in nursing?
+1

It is easy to spend other people's money but you could put that money into a separate account for her and let her decide how to spend it.

I don't know really how it works but there are lots specialized fields in nursing and if she wants to become something like a nurse practitioner then she could be looking at something like graduate school costs.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DarthSage » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:31 am

We've been through this--seriously. Go back 5 years, and substitute "teaching" for "nursing", and you have my oldest.

At the time, it was very, very hard for me to get my mind around the cost difference between her #1 and #3 choice schools. It was more than the price of our first house. As with nursing, teaching is not a field known to make people rich and famous. We worried about her having rich friends, wanting to live a lifestyle she couldn't maintain, those kinds of things.

In the end, she went to her dream school. She did well and got a fabulous education. More importantly, none of our fears panned out. Yes, she did have some rich friends--but she also saw first-hand how money wasn't the be-all, end-all. She thrives on being cheap. She got her dream job, straight out of college--teaching fourth grade children of immigrants (lots of money and prestige there, ha ha, but she's happy). She shares a 2 bedroom apartment with three other people, furnished for free with hand-me-downs.

In her case, her #1 school was a perfect fit--she really found herself. She was very involved with social issues on campus, mostly community outreach in various ways. Her school was extremely diverse, so she met people from every country you can name. She is independent and confident and now flying (mostly) on her own (we pay for plane tickets home and her health insurance). We have no regrets at all.

staustin
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by staustin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:06 am

Darth, this is very, very helpful and most appreciated.

alrick
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by alrick » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:19 am

Look at graduation rates, RN pass rates, and first professional positions at each school. Also look at the clinical sites...hospitals, specialty rotation sites. Are they well known and respected.

If daughter is planning to go on for additional education, she can choose a top flight graduate school....with likely merit scholarship....this approach may yield the best of both worlds in the longer run. It's where you graduate from with your highest degree that matters most.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:22 am

There's a lot to consider. It is not purely financial, either.

When she graduates with a BSRN, her pay will be determined by where she works, not her school or grades, although she'd probably have to have minimum GPA to even apply to some of the top workplaces. Working rotating shifts in one of the big city hospitals is going to get her about the same pay as a graduating engineer, which is a huge jump compared to 30 years ago (50% higher). Working a small rehab facility or nursing home, her pay could literally be half this. I would strongly recommend that she consider a college where co-ops are required as part of the program as she'll have actual experience upon graduation rather than just a few clinical shifts and lots of classroom and lab time.

Is she considering going on for Nurse Practitioner or even Physician's Assistant? These pay far more right out of the box. Also, she may want to look ahead to what might be next following rotating shifts and every other holiday for some years. HMO or insurance work as a Utilization nurse or case manager can get the 8-5 hours that don't exist in hospital nursing.

As far as low cost state vs private, personally, I'd look at the programs and look at what you get out of it. My son is in an expensive private engineering school but being an engineer myself and having attended programs in at least 10 different colleges from community college to MIT, I can say that programs from one school to the next are absolutely not equal. Sure, a brilliant student can exit a state school with excellent knowledge but a top private school will demand it for them to graduate.

In the end, it's your decision. I don't let money stand in the way and I think perhaps you're thinking the same way.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by livesoft » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am

I think it is presumptuous that this young woman will have a career as just a nurse. Other possibilities are as director of a nursing program or as physician or head of a medical school.

And this is funny "She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. " It is funny because she comes from a wealthy family herself. She's going to mess up her classmates I suppose. ;)

A number of nurses live in my neighborhood and they make more money than my spouse and I combined.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by mouses » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:41 am

I would go with the $65k per year option. There are a lot of long term benefits and a whole quality of life situation that comes with a first class college.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:48 am

livesoft wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am
I think it is presumptuous that this young woman will have a career as just a nurse. Other possibilities are as director of a nursing program or as physician or head of a medical school.

And this is funny "She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. " It is funny because she comes from a wealthy family herself. She's going to mess up her classmates I suppose. ;)

A number of nurses live in my neighborhood and they make more money than my spouse and I combined.
+1

This young woman may also meet her future life partner at this institution.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:52 am

Runner01 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 pm
If you send her to the $65k/yr school it seems to me like you are setting your daughter up for unrealistic expectations in life given she is pursuing a career in nursing. She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. That is, unless you expect her to marry rich or you are going to subsidize her lifestyle after graduation.
-1

Do you speak from first hand experience? or just some general observation that you conjured up?
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:02 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:52 am
Runner01 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 pm
If you send her to the $65k/yr school it seems to me like you are setting your daughter up for unrealistic expectations in life given she is pursuing a career in nursing. She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. That is, unless you expect her to marry rich or you are going to subsidize her lifestyle after graduation.
-1

Do you speak from first hand experience? or just some general observation that you conjured up?
I'm another -1 on this comment.
She won't necessarily be surrounded by others that can afford it - there are numerous extremely intelligent children who strive for these schools and get excepted but don't have the family income so attend with a full Need-Based aid package. My guess is that the OPs daughter will walk the middle-ground - not as wealthy as some; but yet of better means than others. (This has been my personal experience for both myself and my children).

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:13 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:52 am
Runner01 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 pm
If you send her to the $65k/yr school it seems to me like you are setting your daughter up for unrealistic expectations in life given she is pursuing a career in nursing. She will be surrounded by others whose families can afford such an expensive school and that may cause her to attempt to live a lifestyle that a nursing career will not afford. That is, unless you expect her to marry rich or you are going to subsidize her lifestyle after graduation.
-1

Do you speak from first hand experience? or just some general observation that you conjured up?
I have second-hand experience with this, as my son went to a school with some really rich kids. Freshman and sophomore year, he spent a fair amount of time with some kids whose families had donated buildings. Buildings; not a bench in the park or a measly wing. These were multi-millionaire families, and a few billionaires. Many of those kids were fine, some were not. Many of his friends were on full need-based scholarships. Many were in between the extremes. Most of the kids were smart enough to evaluate each other on something more sensible than their current financial status.

Most of his good friendships have been with kids whose family's financial situation is more in line with the range found on BH.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by SimonJester » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:14 am

Her starting pay will be the same no matter which school she goes to. Save the money and have her continue onto a masters and or the NP or PA route. There is NO nursing shortage, the field is VERY saturated and highly competitive right now. It is back breaking (literally) work with little appreciation. She will likely have to work night shifts at first, expect to be working weekend and every holiday for the first few years.

She should only enter into the field if she has a true desire to help others. It makes no sense to pay for a prestigious school over a state school.

Fun fact, the starting pay for an associates degree and a bachelors degree in nursing is the same. With 10 years experience the difference between ADN and BSN is only about 10K per year.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:20 am

+1 for the state school.
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by lthenderson » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:27 am

Having a spouse in the medical industry, I can't see why anyone would pay 160K extra for a nursing degree. Here in the Midwest, any person with a nursing degree of any kind can walk into any hospital/clinic and have the expectation of being hired on the spot. It doesn't matter whether you graduated from the top school in the nation or the bottom school and the take home pay is the same either way.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by livesoft » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:43 am

The questions should be answered: Do graduates of the private school end up having mundane careers in nursing? Do graduates of the state school end up having mundane careers in nursing? What exactly happens to the graduates of the private school? That is, what are the outcomes?
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by jchris » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:47 am

It seems to me that the ROI of a nursing degree is beside the point. Based purely on the ROI calculus, of course you don't need to go to a $65K per year school for a nursing degree. But I'm guessing it wouldn't matter whether she wanted to attend school for nursing, or education, engineering, art history, whatever. OP wants to give his daughter her dream college experience, and have no regrets about saying no to that dream. As the parent of college age kids myself, I get it. He can afford it, so it sounds like she is going to the dream school - good on her.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:51 am

why nursing instead of pursuing medicine? am I wrong in assuming that a student who does not think he is good enough to get in medical school would concentrate on getting in to nursing? I know am killing lots of sacred cows here but if I see somebody who wants to go to the worlds best vocational technical school, I am going to tell them "why not go for engineering school instead?"

Some of the respondents are already talking about being NP or physician's assistant as career? why short-change her career?

or am I completely off-field here? coming from a culture where having your kid get in to a medical school is like winning a billion dollar lottery, may be my views are completely warped. If so, tell me that.

But as far as answer to the original question, of course OP can afford it and should allow his daughter to go to the school that she wants aka it should NOT be prevented because of the cost. I bet he can even put her through making her brain surgeon if she desires without any school loan.
Last edited by wrongfunds on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by KlangFool » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:03 am

jchris wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:47 am
It seems to me that the ROI of a nursing degree is beside the point. Based purely on the ROI calculus, of course you don't need to go to a $65K per year school for a nursing degree. But I'm guessing it wouldn't matter whether she wanted to attend school for nursing, or education, engineering, art history, whatever. OP wants to give his daughter her dream college experience, and have no regrets about saying no to that dream. As the parent of college age kids myself, I get it. He can afford it, so it sounds like she is going to the dream school - good on her.
jchris,

I disagreed.

A) OP can afford to spend extra 160K on his daughter's undergraduate nursing degree

or

B) Give her 160K to start her career. Or, as a down payment for a house.

OP cannot afford to do both.

So, the question comes down to whether as a parent, (A) or (B) is better.

The funny part about this equation is many parents are willing to do (A) but not (B). But, in many cases, (B) is better for the children. That gives them the maximum flexibility for their lives.

If a person has 160K when he/she graduated college, that person does not have to save for retirement. Or, the person could buy a house and rented out a few rooms. The person could pursue meaningful work with little or no pay. Or, the person could travel around the world in a backpack for a few years. Everything is possible. The person is almost set for life.

Versus extra 160K for 4 years in a dream college?

Anyhow, it is OP's money. He gets to choose how to spend it.

I am cash flowing my kids' college education. My kids will have no college debt plus 10K to 30K worth of savings/investment when they graduated. I believe in a balanced approach.

One of my family members paid 60K to 80K per year for his 3 kids' college education. Plus, he gave 200K each to the kids before they graduated. In that case, it is definitely a no-brainer decision. This parent can do both. As for the rest of us, we need to think of the tradeoff.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Maya1234 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:05 am

Is the state school direct admit to nursing? If not and the privates are, I'd do the privates. And vice versa.

What are the clinicials like? If one of the schools requires significant travel for clinical I'd avoid them.

As for the poster who asked about why not a doctor, those professions are often entirely different. Many nursing jobs require entirely different skills than being a physician. As the mother of a future nurse ( full pay OOS top public) who desires the hands on patient care and advocacy that is a huge part of many areas of nursing, I have to say that you should learn more about what nurses do.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:09 am

Wrongfunds, One of my kid’s friends was a Yale double legacy, and her two sisters also attended Yale. She went to a selective and expensive private high school. She wanted to be a nurse, and after some soul searching by her family, they backed her choice. The heart wants what it wants.
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wrongfunds
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:16 am

I am not discounting nurse professional value or the immense care that nursing profession provides.

HOWEVER, why aspire to become RN or PA unless the person believes that one is not capable of being a P herself? And if so, why the lack of confidence? It makes no sense to have that as a career path IF THE PERSON HAS THE TALENTS (being top of the school proves that) and THE PARENTS HAVE THE MONEY TO AFFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

The people who follow nursing and aspire to become RN/PA do not have the luxury of either.

Do you believe that nursing/physician is completely different than technician/engineer semantics? If so, why?

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:28 am

I say it’s your money, you do what you want.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by winterfan » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:33 am

OP- you've probably already looked into this, but I wanted to mention that you might want to check to make sure that the nursing program your daughter selects is direct admit. A lot of large state schools have extremely competitive nursing programs. It is very cutthroat until you are admitted. Even though she is a good student, others are too.

I'd hate to see my daughter not be able to pursue a chosen career because she maybe took an elective that she got a B or C in, or maybe had the flu and didn't do as well on some of her finals. You never know what could happen.

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by rg422 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:19 am

Wife and I are both RNs, so I'll give my opinion.

If I were in your position, I'd let her decided. I would, however, push for the state route assuming it leads to the same bachelor's degree. I would rather offer the difference in tuition to help her start her life after nursing school. For most positions out there, once you get that first year of clinical nursing experience, subsequent job applications wont even bother asking where you went to school.

If you want to lead her to a more challenging role/income potential, look into CRNA. From what I have seen, only the brightest nurses even qualify for CRNA school, hence the high salary range.

Nursing is not for everyone, but there is so much you can do with the degree!

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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:32 am

stauston:

I hope that you will allow your daughter to read this thread. She will learn about the difficult decisions and sacrifices a parent must make.

Merry Christmas!
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

RudyS
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by RudyS » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:54 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:32 am
stauston:

I hope that you will allow your daughter to read this thread. She will learn about the difficult decisions and sacrifices a parent must make.

Merry Christmas!
Taylor
+++ Great insight as usual, Taylor! Merry Christmas and thanks for everything you share on-this board.

Maya1234
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Maya1234 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:21 pm

“HOWEVER, why aspire to become RN or PA unless the person believes that one is not capable of being a P herself? And if so, why the lack of confidence? It makes no sense to have that as a career path IF THE PERSON HAS THE TALENTS (being top of the school proves that) and THE PARENTS HAVE THE MONEY TO AFFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

The people who follow nursing and aspire to become RN/PA do not have the luxury of either. “

False. My daughter is at one of the top schools in this country and we have plenty to pay for medical school. That’s not what she wants. Have you or your spouse had a baby and interacted with the nurse? Did it not occur to you that the nurse might not want to be the doctor that comes in for the short time of delivery but rather actively takes pleasure from spending hours interacting with the patient, providing constant monitoring and care for her and her spouse? Or have you dealt with hospice nurses? Do you not realize that many people take great personal satisfaction from going into homes and dealing with all aspects of end of life care. Things that a doctor will never get a chance to do? These are two of the things my daughter is considering doing. Being a doctor would not allow her to do those things.

2pedals
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by 2pedals » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:04 pm

Don't ignore the costs or room, board, transportation costs and materials, can be quite pricey as well. I would add ~15-20K for that as well, unless your daughter commutes to school.

I had a similar situation but I wanted to send my daughter to a in state school but was overruled by DW and DD. She attended an out of state school. Most likely she would have done well in any school.

Sure it was expensive but we had the money. She is now a young professional earning her own wages and I very proud of her accomplishments. I gave her a huge gift of free college education and she knows it. I think she worked hard at getting her degree in part because she knew her parents were doing what was in their power to help her. I have no regrets.

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:54 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm
OP,

Is the difference worth 160K? Or, the money could be better spent on the graduate school and/or down payment for her first house? Is it worth paying 160K extra for an undergraduate degree in nursing?

If you are one of those people that could spend 200+K on your daughter and give her 200K when she graduated, I would say go ahead. If not, the answer would be no. I do not see how it could justify the ROI.

KlangFool
Totally agree with this, I doubt they will be able to show you much to substantiate paying an extra 160K for the education, many of the medical professions its what when you get outside you make your bones. I see it all the time in my field of dentistry, where kids and parents are convinced that paying an extra 250K intuition for an IVY league degree will majically open up doors or its a better education. IT isn't, and the education industrial complex has done a great job at fooling parents and starry eyed pupils that its there school or bust. Best of luck

voodoo72
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:56 pm

rg422 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:19 am
Wife and I are both RNs, so I'll give my opinion.

If I were in your position, I'd let her decided. I would, however, push for the state route assuming it leads to the same bachelor's degree. I would rather offer the difference in tuition to help her start her life after nursing school. For most positions out there, once you get that first year of clinical nursing experience, subsequent job applications wont even bother asking where you went to school.

If you want to lead her to a more challenging role/income potential, look into CRNA. From what I have seen, only the brightest nurses even qualify for CRNA school, hence the high salary range.

Nursing is not for everyone, but there is so much you can do with the degree!
My cousin is a CRNA, went to CC to get RN transferred to State nursing school to finish BSRN, worked for 2 years in critical care and then got into 2 year CRNA school, she did it cheaply and makes a great living..

fourwaystreet
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by fourwaystreet » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:39 pm

My vote would be for the state school route. My daughter chose a competitive BSRN program at a SUNY school over an equally competitive New York State private school. She never regretted the decision and the all in cost for her BSRN was less than 40k (2007 grad) Fast forward five years, DD obtained her NP with full tuition paid for by her employer with no strings attached. Fast forward another five years DD is now a published Advanced Oncology Certified ANP, who never works weekends or holidays, It seems DD gets more recruiter calls than I get pieces of junk mail.

as a side note dream schools do not always meet the hype of the dream once you get on campus. I should know I went to three different what I thought we dream schools before finishing my college education.

Best of luck and congrats

Derby
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Derby » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:58 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:16 am
I am not discounting nurse professional value or the immense care that nursing profession provides.

HOWEVER, why aspire to become RN or PA unless the person believes that one is not capable of being a P herself? And if so, why the lack of confidence? It makes no sense to have that as a career path IF THE PERSON HAS THE TALENTS (being top of the school proves that) and THE PARENTS HAVE THE MONEY TO AFFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

The people who follow nursing and aspire to become RN/PA do not have the luxury of either.

Do you believe that nursing/physician is completely different than technician/engineer semantics? If so, why?
Wow, I don't even know where to start with this.

You appear to have a misguided notion that nurses are just physicians with less education. Yes, nurse/physician IS completely different than tech/engineer. They are two completely different knowledge bases and serve two completely different functions. Yes, they are both in the medical field, just as an insect and a mammal are both in the animal field.

Nurses are not just people that wanted to be physicians but couldn't cut it.

The statement in red is incredibly offensive to all the amazing nurses I've known. (And in case you dismiss me as taking something personally, I'm a physician.)
Carpe Diem.

KlangFool
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by KlangFool » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:00 pm

voodoo72 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:54 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:53 pm
OP,

Is the difference worth 160K? Or, the money could be better spent on the graduate school and/or down payment for her first house? Is it worth paying 160K extra for an undergraduate degree in nursing?

If you are one of those people that could spend 200+K on your daughter and give her 200K when she graduated, I would say go ahead. If not, the answer would be no. I do not see how it could justify the ROI.

KlangFool
Totally agree with this, I doubt they will be able to show you much to substantiate paying an extra 160K for the education, many of the medical professions its what when you get outside you make your bones. I see it all the time in my field of dentistry, where kids and parents are convinced that paying an extra 250K intuition for an IVY league degree will majically open up doors or its a better education. IT isn't, and the education industrial complex has done a great job at fooling parents and starry eyed pupils that its there school or bust. Best of luck
voodoo72,

Willing buyer, willing seller.

Some folks believe that the extra 160K in an undergraduate degree will help their children more than the actual 160K that they could give to their children. If that is what they choose to believe, so be it.

It is a good thing anyhow.

A) The student that pay full price subsidized those that don't.

B) The student that goes to the private school leaves more room at public school for others.

KlangFool

Hug401k
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by Hug401k » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:05 pm

I've been thinking about this a bit myself. I fall on the state school side. I simply don't believe there are many educations out there worth $250k, and certainly not one that is not a high earner. That $160k could do so much good for your kids, and I don't believe the private school is the best way to leverage that money.

If she decided to go to grad school, do you have enough to fund that? What if your son also wants to do private undergrad and grad? Do you have the funds to pay for both of them at the same time? How long does this delay retirement now? How much debt do they need to take on to both get undergrad and grad degrees? How large is the monthly grad school loan repayment on a nurses salary? That extra $160k will likely get your son through college. It may also get your daughter through grad school. It could even fund a Roth for them while they are in school.

My story goes something like this..Though I graduated many years ago, most of us grads had college debt. Because of that debt, I didn't really want to go to grad school to take on more. Some of my friends had no debt. The ones with no debt were the first to buy real estate or get advanced degrees. The rest of us rented forever while paying off loans. Those same people who bought condos in their 20's sold for huge gains in their 30's and bought houses with large downpayment while the rest of us attempted to pull together a down payment, doing stupid things like ARMs, 10% down, PMI. Starting out life with a lot of debt is difficult to overcome. We then had so much debt we couldn't afford to have one parent stay home when the kids come along, then it's child care bills etc... It's awesome you want to pay for school, just get as much as you can for the money and set her up for life, not 4 years.

voodoo72
Posts: 49
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by voodoo72 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:24 pm

Derby wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:58 pm
wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:16 am
I am not discounting nurse professional value or the immense care that nursing profession provides.

HOWEVER, why aspire to become RN or PA unless the person believes that one is not capable of being a P herself? And if so, why the lack of confidence? It makes no sense to have that as a career path IF THE PERSON HAS THE TALENTS (being top of the school proves that) and THE PARENTS HAVE THE MONEY TO AFFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

The people who follow nursing and aspire to become RN/PA do not have the luxury of either.

Do you believe that nursing/physician is completely different than technician/engineer semantics? If so, why?
Wow, I don't even know where to start with this.

You appear to have a misguided notion that nurses are just physicians with less education. Yes, nurse/physician IS completely different than tech/engineer. They are two completely different knowledge bases and serve two completely different functions. Yes, they are both in the medical field, just as an insect and a mammal are both in the animal field.

Nurses are not just people that wanted to be physicians but couldn't cut it.

The statement in red is incredibly offensive to all the amazing nurses I've known. (And in case you dismiss me as taking something personally, I'm a physician.)
The person that wrote that woefully ignorant, I have patients that went to vocational school and started their own business HVAC< Plumbers, and are doing extremely well, they didn't need to become engineers to become successful.

getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 229
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Re: opinions requested on student college decision / financial related

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:49 pm

[Disclaimer: I attended private colleges as a scholarship student, but I am employed (not as a nursing instructor) at a state school with a great nursing program. ]

$0.02: First, congratulations to your daughter. This is a good problem to be having, and one that's the result in part of her hard work. She should be proud! And she's not going to be in debt, no matter what, so she'll be launched well.

Second, a couple of things you might want to consider: how set is she on nursing as a career? What might catch her eye during her general education studies? What if she changes her mind because she falls in love with economics, or biology? Which college gives her more flexibility?

If she attends the state school, will she be admitted into the nursing program, or will she first enter a general program of studies and then apply to nursing as part of a competitive admissions process?

If she is considering advanced nursing degrees/specializations, which school will set her up better for graduate work? Will you also fund graduate work, or if you pay for undergrad, will she need to fund grad school via loans?

Another $0.02: there is very likely to be little difference in the educational experience that she'll get. Bright students, IME, do well anywhere. So the real question, to my mind, is whether the Jesuit collegiate experience (the culture, the friends, the formation, the opportunities) are worth the extra cost.

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