Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

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Top99%
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Top99% » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:39 am

Cars are a leading cause of financial suicide (up there with McMansions) but in this case I think you might suffer a flesh wound at worst. What has helped me with decisions like this is to back of the envelope calculate the difference in month cost (payment, fuel, insurance) between this and the minimalist choice (used CamCord), translate that to a rough increase in how many months/years it will extend your time to FI (Financial Independence) and decide if you are willing to work the extra time. I am impressed that you are at least deeply thinking about this purchase.
Adapt or perish

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bottlecap
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by bottlecap » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:49 am

MrNewEngland wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:10 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:02 am
Unfortunately, if you cannot comfortably pay cash, you can probably not afford it.
Many in this thread have said this and it makes no sense to me.
Well, if you have to finance, by definition you can’t afford it.

“Makes no sense” is a little extreme. Look at it this way. You are single. You’ve been working for probably almost 20 years. Yet you are financing a “want." Does it really make no sense that someone might say you cannot technically afford it?

As someone else said, you have attained the age of majority, so you can do this without anyone’s advice. But if you want advice, the big thing is whether your retirement plan is on track. That is a question you have not addressed in this thread.

JT

msk
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by msk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:57 am

My rules-of-thumb that delivered me to retirement at 55, now 73:

1. Save and invest at least 30% of after tax income. Paying off principal in a mortgage counts in. Interest payments are not saving. Buying consumables like cars is also not saving.
2. Never buy a home worth more than 3x income
3. Never acquire car(s) worth more than 6 months income.

The most critical is 1. Worked for me. Even purchased a new, top of the range Mercedes before I hit 40. YOLO! If a fun ride is what turns you on, and you satisfy all 3 above, indulge :beer Whether you pay cash or lease it won't matter, provided 1. is always maintained.

Frisco Kid
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Frisco Kid » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:05 am

I really see no downside here, as others have said $35k is reasonable money these days and the car has decent resale value. Folks in the Honda/Toyota camps and non enthusiasts don't understand this type of car. For you non car people the name Scat Pack goes back to Dodge's line of high performance cars from the late sixties, 1968 if I recall correctly. Cool ride, enjoy it!

lazydavid
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by lazydavid » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:06 am

552BB wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:49 pm
But it is a nice modern car with the best retro look (in my opinion).
I'm going to disagree with the use of the term "modern" to describe a vehicle based on the Mercedes W210 platform, which was introduced 22 years ago, and has been superceded (in MB's lineup) no less than three times.

PJR202
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by PJR202 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:12 am

I know this is a financial forum and there is plenty of sound FINANCIAL advice, but you are also living a life and people who aren't into sportscars can't identify with how you feel about owning one. There are car people, there are non-car people, and there are people in the middle who can appreciate one and wouldn't mind having one, but they'll probably never get one and if they DO get one they'll have fun for a while then move on (which is perfectly normal and ok, obviously). Decide which one of these people you are. You only live once and you aren't broke. Your savings rate isn't too far off from on-target and with your income vs expenses you should have plenty of money coming in that can be used more wisely than it currently is being used. If you don't have a decent amount of emergency cash on hand, then I would recommend you take care of that first.

And I can assure you that if you are person #1 that I described, the feeling of that car won't wear off. My 435hp still blows my mind sometimes, and especially when I've had to drive my Tacoma for a few days. You'll ENJOY scraping off the bugs and poo and you'll enjoy sitting still in traffic because that Hemi sounds like animal at idle. You'll enjoy comments and chats at the gas pump parking lots, drive thru's, family gatherings, etc, with other #1 and #3 people. You'll enjoy each and every time you pass through a tunnel or underpass, driving next to retaining walls, brick buildings, school buses, long rows of cars. You'll alter your routes specifically so you can rattle the exhaust off of these things, you'll drive with the windows down and heat up in some pretty cold air. You'll notice people rarely tailgate you anymore and those that do will often back off after you downshift and they get a full demo of that exhaust. You'll every so often have a little kid standing there with his jaw dropped and you'll give it a rev for him and his face will light up and you know you just turned him into a car guy and the hobby will live on just a bit stronger than yesterday. Every car guy remembers at least one beastly machine that got his young self into it. My dad had a few and took me to a lot of shows. Those big blocks at idle got in my blood. I had a couple cool looking cars and even for a bit had a 67 Camaro that never saw the road, but I also drove a Hyundai for several years, then a Tacoma which I love but isn't a sportscar. It took me a long time to finally get something powerful and once I did, all that car love came back full force. The car has other value like stress relief and driving my wife crazy and revving it in the driveway a bit to entertain the neighbors.

Decide who you are and what you want. If you're a #1 you'll never regret it and you'll find it easy to commit more of your other finances to investing purely so the car WON'T feel like a bad decision. If you aren't a #1 then you're a #3, so get something a few years old that's already taken the hit in value and enjoy it until you get it our of your system and move on and let the memories be the value. Personally, I was fortunate because of a good price and a good interest rate my payment has outpaced the value so if I never need to get out of it I shouldn't have a problem doing so.

Ok I'm done..lol

runner3081
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by runner3081 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:39 am

You can probably afford it, but it could very easily become a huge financial mistake you will regret later in life. (I say that from the point of experience and being a car enthusiast, having bought two used BMW's that were in the mid 20's and regretting even spending that much on cars).

Also... have you looked at the insurance and licensing increase for buying this?

Plan on getting a few speeding tickets as well, these types of cars have "pull me over" written all over them as the people driving them like to show off the power they have.

Ruger
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Ruger » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:47 am

There are other things to consider besides the purchase price.
What's the insurance on this thing? I suspect it's not going to be cheap.
How about gas mileage? Is it going to be eating gas? Maintenance costs, including things such as tires?

I don't think it's wise to buy it, no matter how much you want it. Wait until you are in a better financial state.

Texanbybirth
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Texanbybirth » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:50 am

coachd50 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:55 am
MrNewEngland wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:10 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:02 am
Unfortunately, if you cannot comfortably pay cash, you can probably not afford it.
Many in this thread have said this and it makes no sense to me. Basically you’re saying if I had saved less in my retirement accounts and had $40k in a savings account instead of an IRA I’d be in a better position to buy the car.
No, what people are saying is that if your cashflow is great enough to maximize your retirement accounts AND still be able to accumulate cash on hand, then you can afford it. It is all about allocation of scarce resources (your income) and value, both economic and personal.

Remember, your sweet ride will sit in parking spaces, move at a turtle's pace in traffic,accumulate dead bugs and bird poop, etc just as well as a 12 year old boring sedan so in the eyes of many posters, you are buying a toy. That is why they feel that it should be a comfortable cash purchase.
Great reply.

No, you can't afford it.

gator15
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by gator15 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:12 pm

PJR202 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:12 am
I know this is a financial forum and there is plenty of sound FINANCIAL advice, but you are also living a life and people who aren't into sportscars can't identify with how you feel about owning one. There are car people, there are non-car people, and there are people in the middle who can appreciate one and wouldn't mind having one, but they'll probably never get one and if they DO get one they'll have fun for a while then move on (which is perfectly normal and ok, obviously). Decide which one of these people you are. You only live once and you aren't broke. Your savings rate isn't too far off from on-target and with your income vs expenses you should have plenty of money coming in that can be used more wisely than it currently is being used. If you don't have a decent amount of emergency cash on hand, then I would recommend you take care of that first.

And I can assure you that if you are person #1 that I described, the feeling of that car won't wear off. My 435hp still blows my mind sometimes, and especially when I've had to drive my Tacoma for a few days. You'll ENJOY scraping off the bugs and poo and you'll enjoy sitting still in traffic because that Hemi sounds like animal at idle. You'll enjoy comments and chats at the gas pump parking lots, drive thru's, family gatherings, etc, with other #1 and #3 people. You'll enjoy each and every time you pass through a tunnel or underpass, driving next to retaining walls, brick buildings, school buses, long rows of cars. You'll alter your routes specifically so you can rattle the exhaust off of these things, you'll drive with the windows down and heat up in some pretty cold air. You'll notice people rarely tailgate you anymore and those that do will often back off after you downshift and they get a full demo of that exhaust. You'll every so often have a little kid standing there with his jaw dropped and you'll give it a rev for him and his face will light up and you know you just turned him into a car guy and the hobby will live on just a bit stronger than yesterday. Every car guy remembers at least one beastly machine that got his young self into it. My dad had a few and took me to a lot of shows. Those big blocks at idle got in my blood. I had a couple cool looking cars and even for a bit had a 67 Camaro that never saw the road, but I also drove a Hyundai for several years, then a Tacoma which I love but isn't a sportscar. It took me a long time to finally get something powerful and once I did, all that car love came back full force. The car has other value like stress relief and driving my wife crazy and revving it in the driveway a bit to entertain the neighbors.

Decide who you are and what you want. If you're a #1 you'll never regret it and you'll find it easy to commit more of your other finances to investing purely so the car WON'T feel like a bad decision. If you aren't a #1 then you're a #3, so get something a few years old that's already taken the hit in value and enjoy it until you get it our of your system and move on and let the memories be the value. Personally, I was fortunate because of a good price and a good interest rate my payment has outpaced the value so if I never need to get out of it I shouldn't have a problem doing so.

Ok I'm done..lol
Good post. You have me motivated to get a new sports car.

SuperGrafx
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by SuperGrafx » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:28 pm

While I do encourage you to pursue your passions, be sure to budget increased costs for maintenance and parts.
Tires, brakes, general parts, etc will cost much more in comparison to your Kia.

feh
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by feh » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:39 pm

MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:54 pm
Won’t be paying cash but I wouldn’t even if I had the cash: I can get a loan for 2.89% (I checked yesterday).

As for assets:

Roth IRA: $145k
Roth 457: $12k
My 401k : $12k (mostly Roth)
Traditional IRA: $75k
Pension fund: $70k
Condo appraised at $175k

Other than that I have a few grand in various checking/savings accounts but not much else.
Can you afford it? Yes.

Would it be a wise decision? No.

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sunny_socal
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by sunny_socal » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm

My prediction: You'll buy the car and within a year you'll sell it.

Just my opinion of course. I've seen friends go through a mid life crisis and buy the muscle car. The feeling wears off and then it becomes an anchor.

bloom2708
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:59 pm

This one is a pass.

Save up some cash. You can buy a much nicer car for $35k.

Your future retired self thanks you now for not buying the Dodge.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

Valuethinker
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:27 pm

MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm
So I guess I spoke a little too soon in my last thread when I said I talked myself out of a bad decision... I am now starting to talk myself back into buy the car.

So here are the details:
2016 Challenger Scat Pack optioned out the way I want it
Asking price $34,900 - if this is firm I walk away.

Me:
Annual salary: just under $90k
Debt: just a mortgage and it's under $75k
Total housing payment: $700 (including mortgage, COA, taxes, insurance)
Not many other huge fixed payments: $50 for internet, $50 for cell, energy bill on the condo ranges but is cheap...

Is this a financial nightmare about to happen or is this a feasible thing to do? I plan to sleep on it again but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
if this is a muscle car then I'd buy a 2 year old one? They tend to be high depreciation so why absorb that cost?

You "can" afford this, but whether you should is another matter. If your heart is set can you wait until next summer, when this year's models should be at a significant discount?

Valuethinker
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:28 pm

sunny_socal wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm
My prediction: You'll buy the car and within a year you'll sell it.

Just my opinion of course. I've seen friends go through a mid life crisis and buy the muscle car. The feeling wears off and then it becomes an anchor.
For those of us used to Northeastern winters, road salt etc. the cars don't last. I mean they last better than they did 30 years ago, but they take a hard wear.

I am told for those in places like SoCal, the traffic is so bad that the novelty wears off pretty fast-- a car is just something to be stuck in traffic in, you want a comfortable ride but performance is fairly irrelevant? Cars last a nice long time, though?

alfaspider
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by alfaspider » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:43 pm

I say if you are going for an overpowered lazy boy, might as well go whole-hog. Hellcats are down into the low 40s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Dodge-Cha ... u3&vxp=mtr

alfaspider
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by alfaspider » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:46 pm

sunny_socal wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm
My prediction: You'll buy the car and within a year you'll sell it.

Just my opinion of course. I've seen friends go through a mid life crisis and buy the muscle car. The feeling wears off and then it becomes an anchor.
It really depends on whether you are a true car guy or just scratching a temporary itch (i.e. midlife crisis purchase). I've been driving performance cars since I had the financial independence to do so, and it never does get old. Only problem for car guys is that speed is a rather addictive drug. Once you've had a fast car, the minds eye always wanders to something even faster (or go-fast parts for your current ride(s) :D ).

It's also worth noting that today's performance cars entail a lot fewer compromises in day-to-day driveability than they used to. Outside a few extreme trackday cars, the downside is mostly just cost.
Last edited by alfaspider on Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:53 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:27 pm
MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm
So I guess I spoke a little too soon in my last thread when I said I talked myself out of a bad decision... I am now starting to talk myself back into buy the car.

So here are the details:
2016 Challenger Scat Pack optioned out the way I want it
Asking price $34,900 - if this is firm I walk away.

Me:
Annual salary: just under $90k
Debt: just a mortgage and it's under $75k
Total housing payment: $700 (including mortgage, COA, taxes, insurance)
Not many other huge fixed payments: $50 for internet, $50 for cell, energy bill on the condo ranges but is cheap...

Is this a financial nightmare about to happen or is this a feasible thing to do? I plan to sleep on it again but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
if this is a muscle car then I'd buy a 2 year old one? They tend to be high depreciation so why absorb that cost?

You "can" afford this, but whether you should is another matter. If your heart is set can you wait until next summer, when this year's models should be at a significant discount?
I'm not a fan of buying used cars for myself as I tend to keep them for 10+ years. If I were buying a used muscle car I would be especially concerned that it had been beaten hard. I know that mine were in my younger days. Even little old ladies from Pasadena pounded on Dodges hard!

animule
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by animule » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:57 pm

Average annual insurance for this car is around $1,600.

http://blog.credit.com/2017/02/are-fast ... re-166373/

I'd pass.

chevca
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by chevca » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:03 pm

I have a 2016 SP, so I'm a little biased. :happy I love the car! It's also 1 of 2 fun cars I own. And, I paid cash or I wouldn't own it. So, my personal belief is to not take a loan out on a toy.

You're single though, no kids, good savings rate, and low expenses for your income. I say, go for it if you want to. YOLO

Would you keep the Kia and the challenger would be a second or fun car?

surfstar
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by surfstar » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Yes you can afford it.

If you want it, buy it. Call it a holiday/bday/etc present to yourself. Live a little. (a little more than many BHs)

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Watty
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Watty » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm

You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.

TropikThunder
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by TropikThunder » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:26 pm

MrNewEngland wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:10 am
Many in this thread have said this and it makes no sense to me.
The only BH-approved vehicle choice is a 10-year old Camry.

Nah, that’s an exaggeration. You could get a 10-year old Accord too, but only the LX, not the EX.

TropikThunder
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by TropikThunder » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:29 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
That new Miata RF hardtop is hot.

Drew777
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Drew777 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:30 pm

If you're a car guy why not learn to flip them? That way you can drive them for a while, make a profit, and switch it up every 6 months or so.

Drew777
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Drew777 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)

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Watty
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Watty » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Drew777 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)
Definitely not a "car guy" I drive Honda Fit. :D

One time though I was stuck in stop and go traffic next to a Ferrari so as a joke I revved my little Honda Fit engine like I wanted to race. The driver pointedly ignore me. People I know that do enjoy more expensive sporty cars often have a daily driver so that they don't put a lot of miles on their fun car while commuting. Not that I would recommend it but one option for the OP would be to have a commuter car and then buy a less expensive older fun car for weekends.

alfaspider
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by alfaspider » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 pm

Drew777 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)
Miatas are far and away the most common cars at track days and also the most raced car out there. Plenty of car guys aren’t bored at all.

If you want more power, there are plenty of forced induction options or even v8 swap kits. It’s a lot easier to give a light weight car power than to make a big heavy car handle.

Barefoot
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Barefoot » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:38 pm

I'm a car guy who has had at least one fun car ever since I bought one with some of our wedding money when I was 22. (I'm 60 now, and still with my first wife)

I always pay cash, try to buy them right, have fun, and then either make money on the sale, or at least don't lose too much.

All it has really cost me over the years is insurance and registration. Most of mine have been older, so the insurance has been relatively cheap.

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whodidntante
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by whodidntante » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:45 pm

Whether or not you pay cash for a car doesn't qualify it as a sensible purchase. That is noise. Income, net worth, and cash flow in relation to the size of the depreciating asset are more relevant factors. It is obvious that the OP is aware he is purchasing a luxury item and there is nothing wrong with that. We must have a large contingent of people channeling Dave Ramsey in this thread.

MrPotatoHead
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by MrPotatoHead » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:24 pm

I have never, ever had trouble getting 20 years out of any car I bought new. I believe in maintaining my vehicles. If you buy and maintain your vehicles initial cost, while it matters, tend to matter less. Over 20 years you desired vehicle costs 142 a month to purchase. Of course there is upkeep, insurance etc.

Life is for living. If driving that car each day makes him smile, then smile away. My advice is above. Buy it, maintain it and spread the initial cost over many years.

4nwestsaylng
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:45 pm

I like great cars, but I would first pay off your "just a mortgage". Becoming debt free on your house instead of adding more debt right now will feel better in a few years.

You can always rent a Challenger for a day and enjoy it. I upgraded to a Camaro on a trip and had it for a few days, enjoyed it, but was glad I didn't have the payments.

Pay off your debts and in a few years you will be able to afford something like a classic Detomaso Pantera :sharebeer

multiham
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by multiham » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:58 pm

Get the car if it will make you happy. Drive the heck out of it. I’m over 50, and have a VW Golf R with 300 hp. It brings a smile to my face everyday on the way to and from work. I don’t drive fast, but I sure get up to the speed limit quickly! I laugh at people who think a sports car is a bad buy. There is more to life than spreadsheets. Also, I have lots of friends who stop at Starbucks everyday or buy $50 bottles of wine. That is how they choose to spend there money. I would rather have the car. Just make sure you keep saving for retirement.

Drew777
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Drew777 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:44 am

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 pm
Drew777 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)
Miatas are far and away the most common cars at track days and also the most raced car out there. Plenty of car guys aren’t bored at all.

If you want more power, there are plenty of forced induction options or even v8 swap kits. It’s a lot easier to give a light weight car power than to make a big heavy car handle.
Well, the fact that they're one of the cheapest track cars out there is a big reason why there you see so many of them... Sure you can make it faster, but there are plenty of cars that are much faster and will beat the Miata on the track every time no matter how good the Miata handles. You can make all the modifications you want to a Miata and it will never beat a stock GT-R.

westrichj312
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by westrichj312 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:50 am

Call Susy Orman!

stoptothink
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by stoptothink » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:53 am

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 pm
Drew777 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)
Miatas are far and away the most common cars at track days and also the most raced car out there. Plenty of car guys aren’t bored at all.

If you want more power, there are plenty of forced induction options or even v8 swap kits. It’s a lot easier to give a light weight car power than to make a big heavy car handle.
This. I think Drew has a different definition of "car guy". I know tons of non car-guys (who literally know nothing about them) who drive 400+hp cars, both my brothers and my best friend fit this bill to a "T". I have three buddies who I would definitely characterize as "car guys" and two of them own miatas, the other has a heavily modded Subaru BRZ as his toy. A guy willing to drive a Miata is absolutely a car guy, because who would put up with that sort of social stigma simply to drive something that is fun? 95% of people don't have a clue how to scratch the surface of the performance potential of something with 150hp, even on the track, and I'd say it is even higher in those driving these high HP land barges. Semantics, I guess.

pc95
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:26 pm

Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by pc95 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:04 am

Remember: car - point a to point b. Rent a sports-car for a day if you're really feeling itchy.

ncbill
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by ncbill » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:44 am

The SXT Plus, nicely optioned, seems to lease well:

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2017-dod ... ns/26599/2

Since this is a toy, I'd recommend renting (leasing) instead of owning...

alfaspider
Posts: 1363
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by alfaspider » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:52 am

Drew777 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:44 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 pm
Drew777 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:06 pm
You might want to start another thread asking for more cost effective alternatives.

I am not a "car guy" but when there have been threads like that before people mentioned cars like like a Miata as being fun to drive and you could buy a new one with a full warranty for a fraction of the cost of the used Challenger.
I think most "car guys" would be bored to death by a Miata. Sure, it handles well and is sort of fun driving around corners. But it's nowhere near the same feeling you get when you crank up a car with 500+ horsepower and hit the gas. Yeah, I know, you can't drive 120 mph on the highway, but you can at the track ;)
Miatas are far and away the most common cars at track days and also the most raced car out there. Plenty of car guys aren’t bored at all.

If you want more power, there are plenty of forced induction options or even v8 swap kits. It’s a lot easier to give a light weight car power than to make a big heavy car handle.
Well, the fact that they're one of the cheapest track cars out there is a big reason why there you see so many of them... Sure you can make it faster, but there are plenty of cars that are much faster and will beat the Miata on the track every time no matter how good the Miata handles. You can make all the modifications you want to a Miata and it will never beat a stock GT-R.
The affordability is certainly a reason why you see lots of Miatas on track, but there are a lot of affordable cars that are nowhere to be seen at track days. It is one of the lightest weight production cars available today, yet retains rear wheel drive, a limited slip differential, and has a suspension design that is extremely well suited for track duty. It will also survive severe track and racing usage with very minimal modifications compared to what most cars require.

You can absolutely get a Miata to beat the pants off a stock GT-R. A stripped-down track Miata weighs at or below 2,000lbs; a GT-R weighs 3,800 lbs and makes around 475hp stock. A fully built turbo Miata can make 300 to the wheels without even getting too exotic, giving it a significantly better power to weight ratio. With an engine swap, the sky is the limit on power. If straight-line speed is your thing, there are drag-prepped Miatas that have done the 1/4 mile in mid 7 seconds. Even a modestly modified Miata can shame some pretty seriously powerful cars. Here's a video of a very modestly prepped NC Miata (only 30hp more than stock) putting down a 7:49 lap time on the Nurburing:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... ing-video/

That's about what a 997 Porsche GT3 or C6z06 Corvette did.

thangngo
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by thangngo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:58 am

pc95 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:04 am
Remember: car - point a to point b. Rent a sports-car for a day if you're really feeling itchy.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Look out of your window, how many different types of car, SUV, truck out there? it's ranging from basic car (Corolla, Civic, Cruze, Fiesta) to mid range (Camry, Accord, Impala, Fusion) and to luxury. Some drive a big SUV and big truck although they drive to work by themselves. As much as you like to think car is just a thing to get you from point a to point b, it is not.

PS: I would never spend money on a cheap car, plastic, uninspiring drive, slow, and would be crumbled in any type of collision. It's a waste of money.
Last edited by thangngo on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:59 am

How about a Mustang GT500 ??? :D
If even. . . for a day.
Image

alfaspider
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by alfaspider » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:05 am

ncbill wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:44 am
The SXT Plus, nicely optioned, seems to lease well:

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2017-dod ... ns/26599/2

Since this is a toy, I'd recommend renting (leasing) instead of owning...
A challenger with a v6 is hardly a substitution for one with the 392 Hemi. Without a stupid amount of power, the challenger loses all reason for existing.

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lthenderson
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Location: Iowa

Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by lthenderson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:17 am

My rule of thumb is if you have to ask someone else if you can afford it, then the answer is almost always no.

pc95
Posts: 176
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by pc95 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:18 am

[quote=thangngo post_id=3673198 time=1513785510 user_id=118021]
[quote=pc95 post_id=3673133 time=1513782296 user_id=29974]
Remember: car - point a to point b. Rent a sports-car for a day if you're really feeling itchy.
[/quote]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Look out of your window, how many different types of car, SUV, truck out there? it's ranging from basic car (Corolla, Civic, Cruze, Fiesta) to mid range (Camry, Accord, Impala, Fusion) and to luxury. Some drive a big SUV and big truck although they drive to work by themselves. As much as you like to think car is just a thing to get you from point a to point b, it is not.

PS: I would never spend money on a cheap car, plastic, uninspiring drive, slow, and would be crumbled in any type of collision. It's a waste of money.
[/quote]

I'll agree that a car is not just a thing to get you from point A to point B, there are bicycles, motorcycles, buses, trains, planes and of course walking as well. :D ----- yes its fun to drive (or ride) in a nice car for the sake of it, but..., anyway.
Last edited by pc95 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

iasw
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by iasw » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Back to the OP's financials in this case -- I don't think $35k is a terrible price for a new car.

My concern is more, OP has a decent income and low expenses. Why is the net worth lower than I'd expect, given those details? Is the income a new, significant raise? Are the expenses newly lowered? Maybe a student loan was recently paid off or something.

What is OP's savings rate? Can you grow your net worth by $40-50k this year?

WalterMitty
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by WalterMitty » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:39 am

Pinotage wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:29 pm
MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:48 pm
Pinotage wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:37 pm
OP: What do you drive now?
I lease a Kia and that’s coming due soon.
Gotcha.

If not a Challenger, what will you purchase or lease?

The difference between the two is the opportunity cost. So this isn't really a 35K decision. Framed that way, not as bad.

BH is a tough place to ask about non-appliance cars. Some will advocate you buy a 1999 Camry. With snow tires, of course.

+1

It's really just the incremental costs versus what you would replace the Kia with. I ran the same analysis about 4 years ago. My theory is that for most people, you don't really "NEED" anything more than a loaded Honda Accord. Yes this excludes those that need a truck, or towing needs, blah blah blah. But for me, the loaded Honda Accord comes with all the bells and whistles and is a decent value for a vehicle. Now, want I WANTED was a Lexus LS460. So, at the time I compared the brand new loaded Honda Accord (2014) with a 2011 Lexus LS460. The delta was about $10K. So I had to decide if that delta was worth it. Was the Lexus 10K better in my eyes? Or did the Lexus bring me $10k worth more enjoyment? For me the decision was yes. I got the 2011 Lexus in Feb 2014 and will most likely keep the car for 10 years or more. I am still am convinced that I made the right decision for me. Yes, you should save more, but the future isn't promised so make sure you enjoy yourself along the way.

Good luck.

researcher
Posts: 470
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by researcher » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:02 pm

MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm
2016 Challenger Scat Pack optioned out the way I want it
Asking price $34,900 - if this is firm I walk away.
I'm far less offended at your desire to spend $35K than I am at your choice of vehicles.
A Dodge Challenger? Really?

Yeah, it's got a big honkin' V8 under the hood.
But literally everything else about the car is horrible...
The weight, handling, styling, material quality, fit & finish are all about a decade behind the times (literally).

MrNewEngland
Posts: 807
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Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by MrNewEngland » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:10 pm

iasw wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am
Back to the OP's financials in this case -- I don't think $35k is a terrible price for a new car.

My concern is more, OP has a decent income and low expenses. Why is the net worth lower than I'd expect, given those details? Is the income a new, significant raise? Are the expenses newly lowered? Maybe a student loan was recently paid off or something.

What is OP's savings rate? Can you grow your net worth by $40-50k this year?
My income has recently risen and my expenses have recently dropped significantly for a couple reasons. I'm at a point in my life now where I can save about 40% of my income for the first time ever, and that makes me really happy - honestly that is the real thing that is holding me back. I would drop that new savings rate that I am so proud of.

researcher wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:02 pm
MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm
2016 Challenger Scat Pack optioned out the way I want it
Asking price $34,900 - if this is firm I walk away.
I'm far less offended at your desire to spend $35K than I am at your choice of vehicles.
A Dodge Challenger? Really?

Yeah, it's got a big honkin' V8 under the hood.
But literally everything else about the car is horrible...
The weight, handling, styling, material quality, fit & finish are all about a decade behind the times (literally).
Haha, I was waiting for that post.

I realize these cars aren't for everyone but I've liked them from the day they came out (and I've never been a Mopar fan) but didn't really want one until I drove one a few years ago. I absolutely loved the one I drove, idk what it was about the car but I have REALLY wanted one since driving it... and that was the R/T (V-8). Then I drove the Scat Pack about a year ago and I knew the regular V-8 wouldn't cut it anymore.

So since it's either the Scat Pack or nothing I am leaning towards nothing... at least until I am closer to FI.

stoptothink
Posts: 4192
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Can I afford it: Dodge Challenger

Post by stoptothink » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:51 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:02 pm
MrNewEngland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm
2016 Challenger Scat Pack optioned out the way I want it
Asking price $34,900 - if this is firm I walk away.
I'm far less offended at your desire to spend $35K than I am at your choice of vehicles.
A Dodge Challenger? Really?

Yeah, it's got a big honkin' V8 under the hood.
But literally everything else about the car is horrible...
The weight, handling, styling, material quality, fit & finish are all about a decade behind the times (literally).
My best friend had a Challenger SRT8 prior to an Audi S6 and now a brand new S8. He is the anti-thesis of a "car guy," I doubt he can change his own air filter and the vehicle is nothing more than wealth signaling to him. I drove the Challenger countless times; sure it makes loud noises and could get down a freeway on-ramp in a hurry, but otherwise it was about as fun to drive as a minivan. You can feel every ounce of the 4,000+lbs. barge when trying to turn or stop it, and the interior was shockingly cheap looking and feeling. At the $35k pricepoint, it wouldn't even be on my list, but to each their own.

As far as affordability? I'm sure MrNewEngland's current financial situation is significantly better than most who are driving that vehicle, but it probably isn't a smart decision.

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