Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I'm sure I'm not the only one who takes the personal finance lead in marriage. My DW is certainly not frivolous and generally we follow a budget (I like to call it our spending plan), but I'm the analyzer and spreadsheet jockey. We review our spending plan monthly, but at year end I like to bring it all together with a recap for her of:
Net worth
Spending by category (from Quicken)
How much was saved/invested in retirement and non-retirement accounts
College saving
Headwinds/tailwinds
Progress against the mortgage
2018 outlook (what do we want to accomplish together in 2018)
I have have most info readily available from Quicken and Execel, and package it up in 10 slides or less in PowerPoint. DW listens and makes a few comments and suggestions, then yawns by slide 9. But it seems to work
Anyone else do something like this with their less nerdy spouse or significant other?
Net worth
Spending by category (from Quicken)
How much was saved/invested in retirement and non-retirement accounts
College saving
Headwinds/tailwinds
Progress against the mortgage
2018 outlook (what do we want to accomplish together in 2018)
I have have most info readily available from Quicken and Execel, and package it up in 10 slides or less in PowerPoint. DW listens and makes a few comments and suggestions, then yawns by slide 9. But it seems to work
Anyone else do something like this with their less nerdy spouse or significant other?
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I try but don’t seem to gain much traction. I think a PowerPoint presentation might do the trick! Thanks for the suggestion.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Be sure to include “keep non-nerdy spouse” amongst your 2018 targets
More seriously, money is a delicate matter and not all people have the same interest in optimizing the wealth-lifestyle curve.
I never insist on anything unless there is the mathematical certainty of a better outcome for her assets.
There is nothing worse than chance turning a correct decision into an apparent mistake, especially when the victim is not too conversant in the statistical theory of financial market returns.
More seriously, money is a delicate matter and not all people have the same interest in optimizing the wealth-lifestyle curve.
I never insist on anything unless there is the mathematical certainty of a better outcome for her assets.
There is nothing worse than chance turning a correct decision into an apparent mistake, especially when the victim is not too conversant in the statistical theory of financial market returns.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I like that; "optimize the wealth-lifestyle curve". But you are right; not everyone is a Boglehead!Thesaints wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:16 pm Be sure to include “keep non-nerdy spouse” amongst your 2018 targets
More seriously, money is a delicate matter and not all people have the same interest in optimizing the wealth-lifestyle curve.
I never insist on anything unless there is the mathematical certainty of a better outcome for her assets.
There is nothing worse than chance turning a correct decision into an apparent mistake, especially when the victim is not too conversant in the statistical theory of financial market returns.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
If she starts to yawn at slide #9, then stick to 8 slides.
Do you follow up on her suggestions? Nothing more frustrating then regularly being asked for an opinion, but that opinion never affecting the result.
Do you follow up on her suggestions? Nothing more frustrating then regularly being asked for an opinion, but that opinion never affecting the result.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Yep, I do definitely incorporate her ideas and suggestions. I know better
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Doesn't sound like there is much "together" in this if you are preparing the slides.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
It's just the mechanics of summarizing. It is better than taking her through Excel and Quicken.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I am the less nerdy spouse, but would definitely not sit through a slide presentation. It seems like maybe we keep it more simple than most? We just take our account totals whenever one of us is curious. For spending, again, we just total what came out of our accounts. This year he super nerded out and broke down spending by categories, but he sucks at creating categories. He throws Walmart in with groceries. Walmart is health and home maintenance! What is "one offs"?? Why are we doing this when we already know that short of delaying maintenance and no longer visiting family, food is the only place for savings?
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
The financial analyst in me wants to prepare a year end summmary, yet my #1 stakeholder does not require nor want any manner of financial reporting.
So we mainly manage this in an agile fashion, talking about needs/wants from the phase of just kicking around an idea, setting it as a goal, and then implementing it when the time comes.
I keep our records pretty updated. Just the other day DH asked me how much his take home is and wanted to know where it all went, so I showed him one year summary table and he was pretty satisfied. That took 3 minutes, no slides necessary.
So we mainly manage this in an agile fashion, talking about needs/wants from the phase of just kicking around an idea, setting it as a goal, and then implementing it when the time comes.
I keep our records pretty updated. Just the other day DH asked me how much his take home is and wanted to know where it all went, so I showed him one year summary table and he was pretty satisfied. That took 3 minutes, no slides necessary.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
We've been LBYM for so long we know our expenses are always in check so we don't bother to check or discuss anymore. I do all of the long term financial stuff, DW could care less. It used to bug me but now I just figure she trusts me but it helps to know that everything is taken care of and I know if she has to do it on her own one day she is more than capable - I also figure it's a division of labor thing. The only comments I make anymore are quick reminders about avoiding insurance guys selling a whole life policy and how much less money we'd have if we let a financial advisor charge us 1.5% fees every year. If my "presentations" go beyond a sentence or two I start to get the glazed over look - I'm a financial/tech nerd so why open my mouth and remove all doubt?
If I am stupid I will pay.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
DH isn't the least bit interested. Occasionally I'll show him our net worth total, but that's about it. He isn't interested in a budget or yearly goals. He is pretty frugal in general and I try to automate as much as possible to make things easy.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
PPT slides in a family? Uh, no!
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I have never done it, but I was just the other day thinking that I should prepare a "State of the Union" presentation for January.mancich wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 pm
I have have most info readily available from Quicken and Execel, and package it up in 10 slides or less in PowerPoint. DW listens and makes a few comments and suggestions, then yawns by slide 9. But it seems to work
Anyone else do something like this with their less nerdy spouse or significant other?
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Smart thinking. Correct, I would advise using LaTeX/Beamer instead.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
In the past never did much of anything, as DW is not interested enough to have any sort of significant conversation. Occasionally she asks what the net worth and I'll say it is X and she seems disappointed it isn't $1 million higher.
As money is tighter at the moment on one income (and expensive time of year) last week I emailed her a graph of our weekly net cash (cash less credit cards) which for several months has been stable but is now trending downward. No comment was received in return.
As money is tighter at the moment on one income (and expensive time of year) last week I emailed her a graph of our weekly net cash (cash less credit cards) which for several months has been stable but is now trending downward. No comment was received in return.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I create a PPT each year, in case my wife wants to see it. She watched the slide show once (~15 slides), hasn't been curious since But I have the new one ready to go just in case
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Do you run through this PPT on a computer or print out two copies and review them if a relaxed manner with some distance.
Then ask yourself which one appears to be lecturing and which one is more a collaboration.
Then ask yourself which one appears to be lecturing and which one is more a collaboration.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I create a one page Net Worth statement. It has a grand total of 12 lines. DW normally doesn't make it all the way to the bottom of the page before the IPhone or IPad summons her. I basically end up telling her we have enough and she says "fine".
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I wouldn't dare.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I just put together 3 things.
Last quarter retirement savings totaled up.
Tax planning for next year. We discuss any strategies in Dec.
Estimate of what we could spend each year after health insurance and taxes if we both had to retire today.
Each year I print out a spreadsheet of withdrawals each year from tax deferred and Roth until age 100, and store that in our financial folder. She chuckles when I update this monthly on my computer, but I like knowing where we are at, though it dies not change much month to month.
Last quarter retirement savings totaled up.
Tax planning for next year. We discuss any strategies in Dec.
Estimate of what we could spend each year after health insurance and taxes if we both had to retire today.
Each year I print out a spreadsheet of withdrawals each year from tax deferred and Roth until age 100, and store that in our financial folder. She chuckles when I update this monthly on my computer, but I like knowing where we are at, though it dies not change much month to month.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
triceratop wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:48 pmSmart thinking. Correct, I would advise using LaTeX/Beamer instead.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
As a nerdy single, categories of spending would send me right to sleep. Perhaps because I pay attention to what I'm spending money on, so this would not be useful.
I would be sure you include where assets actually are and other stuff she needs to know if you die first.
I would be sure you include where assets actually are and other stuff she needs to know if you die first.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Dashboards are even nerdier. Word doc 11 x 17 color with all of the key charts on one page. It gets updated each year to add data so that it builds on the learning with executive level info.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I've been keeping the husband appraised of the changes I'm making and my goals for next year. He added his goal. We then compromised to a decent balance between his goal and mine (he gets priority, because I would put EVERYTHING in retirement funds and leave us cash poor). And walla! We're both happy. Next!
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I love this topic and will be following
About 10 years ago, as income started moving well beyond what we needed for Day to Day, my DW made a comment about “the big black hole,” also known as our retirement savings.
I didn’t have much to show her other than Quicken which quickly bored her. We created some shared goals and we agreed I would manage it and review with her at least yearly.
The next year came around and I created a nice yearly summary of earnings and expenses, net worth progression, summary of accounts, and summary of progress towards our shared goals (college for the boys, supporting her parents, paying off mortgage, retiring by 55 etc). She said “thanks, I trust you” without even looking at it. I keep doing it every year. It’s a good exercise regardless. She keeps telling me “thanks, I trust you” without looking at it.
She just wanted to know that I cared about her feedback and wanted her involved. She doesn’t actually care about the details. Whenever she says something about “the big black hole” I make it a point to buy her or the family something nicer than usual. It’s her way of reminding me that we need to live for now and enjoy it while we build for tomorrow.
It took me a long time to understand the psychology of her comments and I’m still not sure I have it right, but it’s working for us.
About 10 years ago, as income started moving well beyond what we needed for Day to Day, my DW made a comment about “the big black hole,” also known as our retirement savings.
I didn’t have much to show her other than Quicken which quickly bored her. We created some shared goals and we agreed I would manage it and review with her at least yearly.
The next year came around and I created a nice yearly summary of earnings and expenses, net worth progression, summary of accounts, and summary of progress towards our shared goals (college for the boys, supporting her parents, paying off mortgage, retiring by 55 etc). She said “thanks, I trust you” without even looking at it. I keep doing it every year. It’s a good exercise regardless. She keeps telling me “thanks, I trust you” without looking at it.
She just wanted to know that I cared about her feedback and wanted her involved. She doesn’t actually care about the details. Whenever she says something about “the big black hole” I make it a point to buy her or the family something nicer than usual. It’s her way of reminding me that we need to live for now and enjoy it while we build for tomorrow.
It took me a long time to understand the psychology of her comments and I’m still not sure I have it right, but it’s working for us.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I'm more of the day-to-day finance nerd. We don't schedule an annual sitdown, it's more like we talk throughout the year, bounce ideas back and forth, etc. Nothing is hidden--he knows exactly where I file statements, keep the checkbook, and so forth.
OTOH, he's the one to do the taxes. This is mostly because he's very, very thorough--he's the guy who spends three hours in a house closing, reading every single line of the contract. This isn't a bad quality--and, certainly, one that you want in a nuclear engineer. But, I stopped doing our taxes because he literally would re-do them, every single time.
We're both pretty frugal, and most of the time, we're on the same page with investments, major purchases, and so forth.
OTOH, he's the one to do the taxes. This is mostly because he's very, very thorough--he's the guy who spends three hours in a house closing, reading every single line of the contract. This isn't a bad quality--and, certainly, one that you want in a nuclear engineer. But, I stopped doing our taxes because he literally would re-do them, every single time.
We're both pretty frugal, and most of the time, we're on the same page with investments, major purchases, and so forth.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Track it all in PersonalCapital, and Fidelity 360 - so no need for year end presentations. It's there year round, 24-7 for viewing.mancich wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 pm I'm sure I'm not the only one who takes the personal finance lead in marriage. My DW is certainly not frivolous and generally we follow a budget (I like to call it our spending plan), but I'm the analyzer and spreadsheet jockey. We review our spending plan monthly, but at year end I like to bring it all together with a recap for her of:
Net worth
Spending by category (from Quicken)
How much was saved/invested in retirement and non-retirement accounts
College saving
Headwinds/tailwinds
Progress against the mortgage
2018 outlook (what do we want to accomplish together in 2018)
I have have most info readily available from Quicken and Execel, and package it up in 10 slides or less in PowerPoint. DW listens and makes a few comments and suggestions, then yawns by slide 9. But it seems to work
Anyone else do something like this with their less nerdy spouse or significant other?
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel |
"Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I'm the spreadsheet jockey in our house. A couple of years ago I created a one Excel page summary, with a lot of linked info, to pull together essential info for DW. I update it monthly and annually.
The summary shows rolling 12 month and annual data on: month expenses, expenses YTD vs plan; portfolio balance, rolling 12 month annual return and withdrawal rate.
At the bottom of the page I list all accounts, their websites and passwords.
I use to give HR-prepared PowerPoint presentations monthly to my production crews.... but I wouldn't wish that on anybody!
The summary shows rolling 12 month and annual data on: month expenses, expenses YTD vs plan; portfolio balance, rolling 12 month annual return and withdrawal rate.
At the bottom of the page I list all accounts, their websites and passwords.
I use to give HR-prepared PowerPoint presentations monthly to my production crews.... but I wouldn't wish that on anybody!
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
We are years beyond doing the monthly budgets and tracking spending details which often left my spouse upset. We now keep each other in check by her mentioning certain desires or potential spending items which I often will readily endorse, or offer alternatives or me bringing up our current net worth or recommending investment modifications or tax planning. Spouse has been quite compliant in keeping medical and donation records during years which we bunch taxes. I run long term strategies by my spouse, an economist, and will occasionally elicit a response or inquiry, but typically take no negative response as agreement or at least acquiescence.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
9 slides?
I show my wife 1 number....the total of our investments. Even with just that, she doesn't believe it and asks me how we could possibly have that much. Most of her friends have piddled away their money over the years and while we look forward to retirement in a couple years with 2 commas put away, most of the friends have zero equity in their house, student loans for their kids, loans on the cars and very little in retirement accounts.
I show my wife 1 number....the total of our investments. Even with just that, she doesn't believe it and asks me how we could possibly have that much. Most of her friends have piddled away their money over the years and while we look forward to retirement in a couple years with 2 commas put away, most of the friends have zero equity in their house, student loans for their kids, loans on the cars and very little in retirement accounts.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
None of the above! He's just very, very thorough. I'm the household money person, and have a degree in electrical engineering, so I'm a total math-head. Normally, doing taxes would be like catnip to me. But, it wasn't saving us any time...and irritating the snot out of me, that he didn't trust me (yeah, I know it's not really a trust issue, but that's how it felt). But, he wasn't going to sign them unless he was 100% positive of every number. Like I said--this is a good quality to have in someone who works at a nuclear power plant. Sometimes, it's not the best quality in a husband.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I stopped pushing financial data on my non-interested wife years ago. Luckily, my adult kids who will l execute our wills are well versed and receive a copy of all our statements.
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
We split the bills but operate with separate checking accounts. When it comes to the investing and stuff she's participating but has no interest in learning the details. She said "just figure it out then tell me what to do." That works for me..lol
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
After securing my wife in the Clockwork Orange chair, I discuss our change in net worth, how much we spent for the year, and review how to use KEEpass to get the passwords for the accounts. Suggest she use Vanguard PAS if I get hit by a bus. Looking forward to an I told you so as she wanted us to get completely out of stocks because a certain person had been elected. Getting her in that chair is the most difficult part.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I finally got my wife to look over our finances on my birthday. She promised to do it once per year. I guilted her by saying if something happens to me who is going to take care of the kids in a financial sense. That worked.
I think I will see if I can manage end of the year review as well. Great idea. If I can get her to do 2x/ year that would be great.
Good luck.
I think I will see if I can manage end of the year review as well. Great idea. If I can get her to do 2x/ year that would be great.
Good luck.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
You have a wonderful wife to endure such a process. Slides, really?
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
LOL!mhalley wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:24 am After securing my wife in the Clockwork Orange chair, I discuss our change in net worth, how much we spent for the year, and review how to use KEEpass to get the passwords for the accounts. Suggest she use Vanguard PAS if I get hit by a bus. Looking forward to an I told you so as she wanted us to get completely out of stocks because a certain person had been elected. Getting her in that chair is the most difficult part.
Link for vendor of that chair? Are the eyelid clips included?
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Your presentation seems a bit undercooked, quite frankly. Next year try a fully animated production with talking cats. Don't forget the laser pointer, and industrial-strength speakers.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Sounds awful. But good reminder I need to make an info sheet in case something happens to me that tells him where everything is and how to access. He is pretty on board just not interested in all the details. And as most of my investments are set and forget (yay 3 fund) it's not like there's a lot to talk about.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
I'm enjoying this discussion as I too have a non-nerdy but like minded spouse.
One thing I want to build for myself, even though I'm not sure my wife will care, is to put my expenses into a pretty chart to see.
I recently found this chart and will be trying it at the end of the year. I use YNAB or You Need a Budget, so it'll be easy to create the data for this.
http://sankeymatic.com/build/
One thing I want to build for myself, even though I'm not sure my wife will care, is to put my expenses into a pretty chart to see.
I recently found this chart and will be trying it at the end of the year. I use YNAB or You Need a Budget, so it'll be easy to create the data for this.
http://sankeymatic.com/build/
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
As the nerdy spouse I would not be happy to sit through a ppt about our finances.
With my husband I usually just make sure he knows where all the accounts are, give him updates on totals, and make sure I listen if he has any suggestions on what our financial goals should include for the following year or that he agrees with the goals I would like to achieve.
With my husband I usually just make sure he knows where all the accounts are, give him updates on totals, and make sure I listen if he has any suggestions on what our financial goals should include for the following year or that he agrees with the goals I would like to achieve.
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
Actually one year I put together a PPT presentation to my family on our vacation options for the year and they LOVED it. The problem was they wanted me to repeat it every year
Its been a few years since I walked my spouse through our finances in any level of detail - when I do - I get a few nods followed by "can we watch TV now". I don't think its that unusual for one spouse to trust the other (who has more interest and puts the time into managing things).
Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
This is our general system as well, although my husband doesn't do our taxes any more. We inherited a friend's estate, then that morphed into dealing with the finances of a rental property, and now the taxes are esoteric enough that it's best done by an accountant. That was his last tether to managing periodic financials and as we approach retirement age/stage he's really disengaged other than that I periodically tell him what's going on, or he more rarely asks me about something.DarthSage wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:04 am I'm more of the day-to-day finance nerd. We don't schedule an annual sitdown, it's more like we talk throughout the year, bounce ideas back and forth, etc. Nothing is hidden--he knows exactly where I file statements, keep the checkbook, and so forth.
OTOH, he's the one to do the taxes. This is mostly because he's very, very thorough--he's the guy who spends three hours in a house closing, reading every single line of the contract. This isn't a bad quality--and, certainly, one that you want in a nuclear engineer. But, I stopped doing our taxes because he literally would re-do them, every single time.
We're both pretty frugal, and most of the time, we're on the same page with investments, major purchases, and so forth.
He did get intrigued last night about taking his pension as a lump sum and using it to pay off our vacation/retirement home mortgage but once I explained we have to pay taxes on IRA withdrawals that ended his foray into money management. Then I tried to interest him in comparing buying an immediate annuity v. the pension monthly payment to see how good or bad the lump sum option would be in general, but at that point he got bored and wandered off to brush his teeth.
Even though I have an MBA and he's a systems analyst I can't quite fathom making or viewing an actual slide presentation, but hey if it works for you...
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Re: Year end review with less nerdy spouse
My nerdy spouse is nerdier than my nerdy self, I doubt he would sit through 9 slides. It sounds like work and he doesn’t like Power Pount slides either.