Acts of war term insurance?

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Nooblet
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Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Nooblet » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Hi all, my husband and I are interested in increasing our life insurance. He is active duty and I'm a SAHM with 1 kid and 1 on the way. I've seen others recommend term4sale, but wanted to know how you find out which ones will cover deployment/acts of war for him specifically. We had a problem getting extra insurance through USAA when we were stationed in Japan, and are due to leave the country again for a short time in the spring.

Is there a way to find out and compare which insurance covers acts of war? It doesn't seem to be an option on the term4sale calculator.
Thanks

itstoomuch
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by itstoomuch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 pm

See plans that don't have this exclusion.
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brad.clarkston
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by brad.clarkston » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:35 pm

itstoomuch wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 pm
See plans that don't have this exclusion.
That doesn't make any since even on the third reading.

brad.clarkston
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by brad.clarkston » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:36 pm

Nooblet wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm
Hi all, my husband and I are interested in increasing our life insurance. He is active duty and I'm a SAHM with 1 kid and 1 on the way. I've seen others recommend term4sale, but wanted to know how you find out which ones will cover deployment/acts of war for him specifically. We had a problem getting extra insurance through USAA when we were stationed in Japan, and are due to leave the country again for a short time in the spring.

Is there a way to find out and compare which insurance covers acts of war? It doesn't seem to be an option on the term4sale calculator.
Thanks
https://www.aafmaa.com/Browse-Products/Life-Insurance
https://www.afba.com/products/insurance ... -insurance

are a couple you can look into.

EDIT:
http://lifeinsurance.military.com/lifei ... 342&&exp=y

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White Coat Investor
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by White Coat Investor » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:33 am

SGLI. I don't know of any others.

Actually, that's not true. It was disability that didn't cover that. I think my life policies did. Maybe you had a 2 year exclusion or something, but they eventually did.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

iflyjetzzz
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by iflyjetzzz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:47 am

brad.clarkston wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:35 pm
itstoomuch wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 pm
See plans that don't have this exclusion.
That doesn't make any since even on the third reading.
Actually, it makes perfect sense to me.

There are several life insurance companies that are tailored for military members. I remember picking up a couple of smallish additional term life insurance policies from different companies during Desert Shield and cancelled those policies after rotating out of the Gulf. I had max SLGI, which I think was ~200K at the time.

I didn't go with USAA (I've had a bank acct/auto ins/home ins there for more than 30 years) but found a couple of reputable insurance companies that didn't have combat/aviation exclusions. AFBA was one of them; I don't remember the other insurance company.

You do not want to shop for 'normal' life insurance. You'll need to fire up the google on the internets machine to find companies with no combat exclusion. Here's a start: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/f ... terans.asp

Nooblet
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Nooblet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:43 am


I've heard those names a few times so I think I'll start there. Thanks!
White Coat Investor wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:33 am
SGLI. I don't know of any others.
I think such policies exist but are not so common. We already have SGLI but are going to need more.
iflyjetzzz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:47 am
You do not want to shop for 'normal' life insurance. You'll need to fire up the google on the internets machine to find companies with no combat exclusion. Here's a start: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/f ... terans.asp
Okay thank you. I was hoping there was some kind of tool to simply check all policies against each other but it appears a magnifying glass and fine toothed comb are what's needed. :) That list sounds like a good starting point, thanks.

Benton Bair
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Benton Bair » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:56 am

Nooblet wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm
Hi all, my husband and I are interested in increasing our life insurance. He is active duty and I'm a SAHM with 1 kid and 1 on the way. I've seen others recommend term4sale, but wanted to know how you find out which ones will cover deployment/acts of war for him specifically. We had a problem getting extra insurance through USAA when we were stationed in Japan, and are due to leave the country again for a short time in the spring.

Is there a way to find out and compare which insurance covers acts of war? It doesn't seem to be an option on the term4sale calculator.
Thanks
What was the problem you encountered with USAA?

I'm not aware of any of the major mutual life insurance companies offering contracts with a "War Clause". There might be an issue at time of underwriting if deployment to a hostile region is imminent. Call agents at Guardian, Mass Mutual, New York Life, Northwestern Mutual and Penn Mutual.

Nooblet
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Nooblet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:18 am

Benton Bair wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:56 am
What was the problem you encountered with USAA?

I'm not aware of any of the major mutual life insurance companies offering contracts with a "War Clause". There might be an issue at time of underwriting if deployment to a hostile region is imminent. Call agents at Guardian, Mass Mutual, New York Life, Northwestern Mutual and Penn Mutual.
USAA would not sell my husband any life insurance while he was stationed outside the US. They said he had to return stateside before they would insure him. He was not deployed to a hostile region.

iflyjetzzz
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by iflyjetzzz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:30 am

Nooblet wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:43 am
Okay thank you. I was hoping there was some kind of tool to simply check all policies against each other but it appears a magnifying glass and fine toothed comb are what's needed. :) That list sounds like a good starting point, thanks.
You're welcome. Yes, you're looking for life insurance that doesn't have a combat zone/war clause. Those products are going to be tailored to military member.

Definitely get max SGLI and TGLI first before adding additional insurance.
Benton Bair wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:56 am
I'm not aware of any of the major mutual life insurance companies offering contracts with a "War Clause". There might be an issue at time of underwriting if deployment to a hostile region is imminent. Call agents at Guardian, Mass Mutual, New York Life, Northwestern Mutual and Penn Mutual.
I wouldn't go that route. Chances are all major insurers are going to have combat exclusion clauses. And I wouldn't trust someone on the phone telling me that there are no clauses since they are incentivized to sell insurance policies.

USAA and other military insurance companies were started because the major insurers charged a premium to military members and had clauses that excluded most military related deaths.

There are enough reputable insurance companies out there that are specifically geared toward military members that I wouldn't bother looking at major insurers.

Benton Bair
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Benton Bair » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:39 am

iflyjetzzz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:30 am
Nooblet wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:43 am
Okay thank you. I was hoping there was some kind of tool to simply check all policies against each other but it appears a magnifying glass and fine toothed comb are what's needed. :) That list sounds like a good starting point, thanks.
You're welcome. Yes, you're looking for life insurance that doesn't have a combat zone/war clause. Those products are going to be tailored to military member.

Definitely get max SGLI and TGLI first before adding additional insurance.
Benton Bair wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:56 am
I'm not aware of any of the major mutual life insurance companies offering contracts with a "War Clause". There might be an issue at time of underwriting if deployment to a hostile region is imminent. Call agents at Guardian, Mass Mutual, New York Life, Northwestern Mutual and Penn Mutual.
I wouldn't go that route. Chances are all major insurers are going to have combat exclusion clauses. And I wouldn't trust someone on the phone telling me that there are no clauses since they are incentivized to sell insurance policies.

USAA and other military insurance companies were started because the major insurers charged a premium to military members and had clauses that excluded most military related deaths.

There are enough reputable insurance companies out there that are specifically geared toward military members that I wouldn't bother looking at major insurers.
The major mutual life insurance companies I referenced provide excellent value. I would not assume any of them would misrepresent what coverage they offer. Their corporate reputations precede them. Why would you call into question there credibility? Make a phone call or email and ask for a pdf of specimen contract and all available riders offered in the jurisdiction requested.

iflyjetzzz
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by iflyjetzzz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am

Benton Bair wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:39 am
The major mutual life insurance companies I referenced provide excellent value. I would not assume any of them would misrepresent what coverage they offer. Their corporate reputations precede them. Why would you call into question there credibility? Make a phone call or email and ask for a pdf of specimen contract and all available riders offered in the jurisdiction requested.
Hmm. Let me guess. You have zero time in the military and think that combat zone/war exclusions for life insurance are unusual. They're not. I know this because I shopped for life insurance as a military pilot.

As for misrepresenting coverage, I've spoken to enough commissioned salespeople to know that they have a financial incentive to close the sale. More than a few will say whatever you want to hear in order to close the sale. YMMV.

As for calling/emailing these companies in search of combat zone/war clauses, you're sending the OP down a rabbit hole for something that will very likely yield only negative results. Combat zone/war clauses are standard boiler plate exemptions on typical life insurance contracts (been there, done that). The OP needs to find insurers that cater to the military. Most insurers that cater to the military have as high ratings as the ones you're trying to steer her toward anyway. Even within those companies that cater to the military, there can be various restrictions.

brad.clarkston
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by brad.clarkston » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:36 pm

iflyjetzzz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am
Hmm. Let me guess. You have zero time in the military and think that combat zone/war exclusions for life insurance are unusual. They're not. I know this because I shopped for life insurance as a military pilot.
+1 this. ex-Army that bought extra coverage before going to the Middle East.

Valuethinker
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:22 pm

iflyjetzzz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am


As for calling/emailing these companies in search of combat zone/war clauses, you're sending the OP down a rabbit hole for something that will very likely yield only negative results. Combat zone/war clauses are standard boiler plate exemptions on typical life insurance contracts (been there, done that). The OP needs to find insurers that cater to the military. Most insurers that cater to the military have as high ratings as the ones you're trying to steer her toward anyway. Even within those companies that cater to the military, there can be various restrictions.
I don't know anything about US service people and insurance.

But the statement above is absolutely true of life insurance in the UK and Canada as well. And I assume Canadian would be similar to USA (a number of large US insurers are owned by Canadian companies eg John Hancock).

Kidnap is also out. Kidnap insurance is its own special world. And you might need it, because standard US & British official policy is not to negotiate with kidnappers (the French and the Italians will, and pay out big money to get you back). So if one is headed to some place where it's a risk.

Benton Bair
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Benton Bair » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:47 pm

NOOBLET,

As I wrote earlier make some phone calls to the mutual life insurance companies and learn what they can offer you. There are people posting on this forum who are not helpful as far as gaining truthful and accurate information for your family needs. There is to much supposition about matters meaningful to your family. Numerous participants may mean well but with limited personal experiences and uninformed industry practices they will not and can not guarantee what you want at prices you will favor.

Ask questions of companies that have been in business for 150 years or more. Any life insurance contract purchased will be from a licensed agent and all of them will benefit financially to some degree. That's business. The mutual company business model may serve your long term needs much better than lesser known and smaller stock insurance companies. Your initial purchase may be the one and only time to get it right. If for some reason health changes it's good to know your future protection extends beyond this initial process. We're talking about contracts with companies that will commit to guarantees for many, many decades into the future. Strength of their balance sheets facing a long future of low interest rates will put pressure on all doing business in this space. The strong will prevail and deliver value when you are most vulnerable. Good luck.

You may PM me for information beyond what I've written here. I am not employed in the industry. I do watch what is happening.

warner25
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by warner25 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:11 pm

Yeah, I dealt with this a few years ago while assigned to Korea and having a new baby. We judged that SGLI coverage was insufficient, and USAA was the obvious choice of a reputable company that would not have combat (and aircrew) exclusions, but they couldn't help me. They didn't have a way to administer the medical exam, and there was some legal barrier to writing a policy when I was not under the jurisdiction of any state insurance law.

Some agent eventually found us one company, Life Insurance Company of the Southwest, that was willing to write a no-exam policy for us while overseas. The coverage limit was lower than I wanted, and the premiums higher, and it had the combat exclusion, but at least it was something.

As soon as we returned to America we got a proper policy from USAA and cancelled the other one. Now that it's in force, it doesn't matter where I'm assigned; that was only a problem at the time of writing. So get it now.

I wish I knew all that before going to Korea. I remember missing some sleep worrying that I'd be underinsured.

Edited to add: I just remembered, ironically, that USAA said they could write a policy if I were actually deployed to a combat zone like Afghanistan. But while living in Korea, no. Edited again because I looked at my old LICSW policy document, and it did not have any combat/war-zone exclusion. However the application did ask if I had orders to deploy, and I don't know what would have happened if I said yes.
Last edited by warner25 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

bovineplane
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by bovineplane » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:29 pm

You mentioned leaving in spring - call USAA now and ask for a quote. The coverage remains in effect while you are stationed overseas. They require a physical and if you are CONUS they can complete the physical in less than a week. Rates are reasonable and all billing is through the USAA site. If your husband is military then it is highly likely he is in good shape and will qualify for the lowest rates. For my 600k policy I pay $25/month. Been in effect for ~8-10 years now through multiple deployments and currently in Korea.

If I recall, the base policy does have an aviator exclusion. There is an important note to this though. The aviation clause does not apply to combat as that is combat operations. The exclusion for aviation applies in all other cases though and was quite expensive to get a rider for aviation. Added ~$58 a month to the same policy from my recollection.

I have also shopped AFFMA which had reasonable rates and combat exclusions. I do not recall if the base policy had an aviation waiver or not. The rate was comparable to USAA and to keep things simple I went USAA. AFFMA though I think can put a policy in place without a physical as I think at the time they suspect if you are AD you are in at least one of top health tiers. Was tailored to kids deploying on short notice. PArt of why I did not choose AFFMA at the time is because they required SGLI to be in effect meaning yo lost coverage if you separated from the military. USAA did not have this requirement. This may have changed in the last 10 years. Rate was a few $ cheaper though per month.

I can also confirm that most major life insurance companies DO NOT cover combat deaths on 'regular' policies. Asking the questions about combat exclusions got a lot of misinformation and outright lies from agents online, in person and on the phone. Stick with the military catering insurance companies to be safe.

Benton Bair
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Re: Acts of war term insurance?

Post by Benton Bair » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:55 am

bovineplane wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:29 pm
You mentioned leaving in spring - call USAA now and ask for a quote. The coverage remains in effect while you are stationed overseas. They require a physical and if you are CONUS they can complete the physical in less than a week. Rates are reasonable and all billing is through the USAA site. If your husband is military then it is highly likely he is in good shape and will qualify for the lowest rates. For my 600k policy I pay $25/month. Been in effect for ~8-10 years now through multiple deployments and currently in Korea.

If I recall, the base policy does have an aviator exclusion. There is an important note to this though. The aviation clause does not apply to combat as that is combat operations. The exclusion for aviation applies in all other cases though and was quite expensive to get a rider for aviation. Added ~$58 a month to the same policy from my recollection.

I have also shopped AFFMA which had reasonable rates and combat exclusions. I do not recall if the base policy had an aviation waiver or not. The rate was comparable to USAA and to keep things simple I went USAA. AFFMA though I think can put a policy in place without a physical as I think at the time they suspect if you are AD you are in at least one of top health tiers. Was tailored to kids deploying on short notice. PArt of why I did not choose AFFMA at the time is because they required SGLI to be in effect meaning yo lost coverage if you separated from the military. USAA did not have this requirement. This may have changed in the last 10 years. Rate was a few $ cheaper though per month.

I can also confirm that most major life insurance companies DO NOT cover combat deaths on 'regular' policies. Asking the questions about combat exclusions got a lot of misinformation and outright lies from agents online, in person and on the phone. Stick with the military catering insurance companies to be safe.
What's a "regular" policy? If a person answers all the questions truthfully on a life insurance application and the policy is delivered and paid, all causes of death will result in payment of claim with the usual exception of suicide within one or two years of issue depending on the state where issued. That includes deaths resulting from combat. Why would you inaccurately say the major mutual life insurance companies don't pay a claim if death results from hostilities? That is absolutely false.

During the US Civil War New York Life Insurance Company crossed the battle lines to pay war related death claims in the south.

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