House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

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motorcyclesarecool
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House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by motorcyclesarecool » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm

The motorcyclesarecool family has been in the market for a house for the past year. Yesterday our buyer’s agent contacted us about a property that was at least 95% of our ideal and reasonably priced. We set up a showing for today. Showing was cancelled because the house went under contract last night. The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house. That has me wondering:
1. On what planet is it in the seller’s best interest not to wait for additional offers when the house just came on the market and showings are scheduled?
2. Could this be a case of a realtor attempting to goose his “average days on the market” stat?
3. If so, it seems like a fraudulent listing. Do I have any recourse? We had to arrange extra childcare. Is there any body that reigns in realtor shenanigans?
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prudent
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by prudent » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:46 pm

I suppose it's possible for a seller to tell the agent the top priority is to get the thing sold immediately, and the agent says "price it at $X and it will be gone ASAP".

barnaclebob
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by barnaclebob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:50 pm

Not sure what could be fraudulent. The seller might have gotten an all cash offer for over asking and took it. In a hot market you need to jump on it same day. It is a bit unusual though.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gnirk
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Gnirk » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:51 pm

They may have received a cash offer, and accepted it. There are lots of those in the Seattle area. And in my neighborhood, an hour south of Seattle, some of the houses have sold the day they are listed because realtors have potential buyers waiting to buy.

And my daughter who was in the market for a condo. would attend the Brokers' open on ones she was interested in, and make an offer through her realtor. She was outbid two times by cash buyers, and three times by some who offered less but were able to put more than 20% down or waived inspection,. She finally resorted to making an offer, waiving inspection and writing a letter to the seller. It worked, she got the condo even though there were equal offers on the table. BTW, she still had an inspection for her own peace of mind, and in Washington a buyer has five days to review a condominium's HOA's meeting minutes and financials, and if they aren't acceptable, can back out of the offer.

ccieemeritus
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by ccieemeritus » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:04 pm

In a few months the sale price will be public. Make yourself a note to go and compare the actual sale price to the original asking price and what you were thinking about paying.

Not that that will make any difference to you. If fraud occurred you are not the victim, even though you are upset at not being given a chance to bid on the house.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:08 pm

ccieemeritus wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:04 pm
In a few months the sale price will be public. Make yourself a note to go and compare the actual sale price to the original asking price and what you were thinking about paying.

Not that that will make any difference to you. If fraud occurred you are not the victim, even though you are upset at not being given a chance to bid on the house.
What kind of "fraud" are you suggesting?

IF the buyer offered less than asking, and the seller decided, sure, let's do it, that's not fraud.
That might be an anxious seller, or a seller who listed for more than they thought possible, or who knows what.
Or maybe the buyer offered asking price straightaway, or perhaps even above, and seller decided to grab it.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by jcf » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Seller's agent could be fraudulent, and trying to make more money from both parties. Unfortunately a lot of these realtors do not care about ethics or even shy away from committing a fraud to make money.

Had this happen to a friend of mine few months ago. A house came on Market Friday night, they saw the property on Saturday, and had the buyer's agent put in an offer on Sunday to Seller's agent. Seller's agent never put Friend's offer to the seller. Seller's agent brought his own buyer and made him to put an offer on Monday morning at just below my friend's price, and told the seller that he had to sign right away to secure the sale. Friend was told that his offer was rejected. Friend was miffed the same way as he was planning to up the offer if needed.
Friend eventually directly made the contact with the seller and was told that seller never received his offer. Seller's agent pocketed both side commissions and forced seller to accept a lower price. Even seller was angry but did not want to take a legal acton against his agent.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by brad.clarkston » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:28 pm

That's pretty normal the housing markets goes fast and slow at times. No need to jump to trying legal action on a property you never had a leg in to start with. They probably got the offer the day before but decided on it that night and called there agent. We did that once, waited five or six hours to accept.

I don't know any agent that's going to go out after dark to pull a sign.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by 123 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 pm

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm
...The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house....
There is no requirement that a "for sale" sign be placed in front of a house for sale, it is optional. Often listing agents ask the sellers if it is okay to put a sign in front of the house. Many people may not want a public sign in front of their house because they may not want non-serious buyers (i.e. neighbors etc) walking through their house on the pretense of potentially purchasing it.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by jadedfalcons » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:38 pm

I put in an offer on my house 24 hours after the realtor put the "For Sale" sign in the yard. For what it's worth, I was sitting around the corner watching him put the sign in the ground. My offer was accepted within two hours. Motivated sellers and I had my financing set up already.

My offer was 5.5% lower than their asking price, which was already on the low side, in a hot housing market, and I was the only person to even have a chance to see the house. Motivated sellers don't make the best decisions.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by ERISA Stone » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:45 pm

My last house we had two showings within 2 hours of posting the listing. I can't remember if we had an offer that night or the next morning, but we had a signed contract the next day less than 24 hours later. No sign was ever put up in the yard. I got asking price, which was what I wanted. I didn't have a need to feel the market out to see if I could squeeze a few more grand out of the process.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:47 pm

If have purchase properties within the first hour of the MILS listing.
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LittleGreenSoldiers
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by LittleGreenSoldiers » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:59 pm

If you are still interested in the house you could check and see if they are entertaining backup offers. Houses under contract can fall through for various reasons(financing, home inspection, cold feet).

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by bottlecap » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:04 pm

So, you are considering suing for fraud because you had to arrange for a babysitter for a couple of hours? :shock:

There is no fraud here. It happens.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Katietsu » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Nothing sounds unusual. Certainly no reason to believe anything was fraudulent. Houses sometimes even sell before the listing is posted in the MLS.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by adamthesmythe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:16 pm

There's no reason to think it's fraud.

Nothing wrong with an agent letting some potential buyers know that a property of interest is going to be on the market. If the buyer makes an offer and the seller likes the price, the sale is made.

Now if the process was an attempt to avoid exposing the house to offers from "the wrong kind of people" then another kind of law would be violated.

freebeer
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by freebeer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:33 am

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm
The motorcyclesarecool family has been in the market for a house for the past year. Yesterday our buyer’s agent contacted us about a property that was at least 95% of our ideal and reasonably priced. We set up a showing for today. Showing was cancelled because the house went under contract last night. The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house. That has me wondering:
1. On what planet is it in the seller’s best interest not to wait for additional offers when the house just came on the market and showings are scheduled?
2. Could this be a case of a realtor attempting to goose his “average days on the market” stat?
3. If so, it seems like a fraudulent listing. Do I have any recourse? We had to arrange extra childcare. Is there any body that reigns in realtor shenanigans?
Unless the MLS agent remarks say something like offers will not be reviewed until XX date (could be 4-5 days after listing) then the assumption is that offers may be considered as soon as they come in. A pushy buyers agent could even make a strong offer together with a deadline of 9pm the day of listing. If seller wants to accept the bird in the hand that's their wherewithal. So to me, especially given a hot market, it seems no fraud here although questionable competence of your agent (if they did not apprise you of this risk which given your post I assume they did not).

BTW in Seattle market agents generally use a sign service and they sometimes need to verify via 811 so there is often a delay on sign posting. Many homes go pending before a sign goes up.

If you want to be a smart buyer in a hot market you'll need to get more aggressive in jumping on new listings.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Watty » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 am

One thing that has not been mentioned is that often(always?) the other real estate agents at the real estate company that is going to be listing the property will know about it long before the the property is formally listed. If you are in a hot market you might want to use an agent with the largest company just to get early exposure to upcoming listings with that company.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by letsgobobby » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 am

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm
The motorcyclesarecool family has been in the market for a house for the past year. Yesterday our buyer’s agent contacted us about a property that was at least 95% of our ideal and reasonably priced. We set up a showing for today. Showing was cancelled because the house went under contract last night. The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house. That has me wondering:
1. On what planet is it in the seller’s best interest not to wait for additional offers when the house just came on the market and showings are scheduled?
2. Could this be a case of a realtor attempting to goose his “average days on the market” stat?
3. If so, it seems like a fraudulent listing. Do I have any recourse? We had to arrange extra childcare. Is there any body that reigns in realtor shenanigans?
If you really like the house, make a backup offer, and find out from the listing agent what the accepted offer was - and offer higher. The house we now live in was 99% of our ideal, and went under contract within 24 hours, after we’d visited but before we’d had a chance to write an offer. We made a backup offer and eventually got the house. There’s no harm in trying.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by 6miths » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:00 am

In most (all?) jurisdictions AFAIK real estate agents do not have a fiduciary responsibility to anyone. In our neck of the woods and in other hot markets there has been an uproar related to agent practices. Agents misleading sellers as to value of their properties, buying them from them and then reselling them. Sometimes without properties ever being on the open market. Over the years, I have been repeatedly impressed by the ability of agents to rationalize behaviors that are clearly not in their 'clients' interest.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by motorcyclesarecool » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 am

When we sell our townhouse, I’m leaning increasingly towards doing it via an auction with reserve. This process is far too opaque.
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by stan1 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 am

I can understand the frustration but it's not fraud if someone beat you at the game. Did you know the house was coming on the market? Did you contact the listing realtor before the house came on the market? Did you immediately jump in and say we'll offer 10% over asking, all cash, with no contingencies? That's the game in hot markets right now. Did you put in a backup offer in case the first offer falls through (that happens a lot)?

Is your agent helping you win? In a hot market a buyer's agent should be coming to you with some houses that she expects will be on the market within the next month. She should be a successful agent with her own listings plus she should be networking with other agents. In our area sellers agents often put out "pre-listing" announcements so there are multiple offers within two days. This is not illegal or unethical.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Bigbonds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:44 am

They might have done you a favor. Housing prices are completely out of whack according to historical pricing norms. We are back up and past 2008 levels, not good. It’s completely possible you could look back on this in a year with the perspective that you dodge a bullet.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by jdb » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 am

Happens all the time, especially in hot markets. Agent wants full commission, not willing to share. Has at least one and possible more buyers in waiting without their own agents. Talks seller into below market listing price. Gets their buyers to submit all cash offer or offer with approved financing ASAP after listing, certainly not later than first showing, and then talks seller into accepting “great” offer. Welcome to the wonderful world of residential sales tricks.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by bighatnohorse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:51 am

My cousin sold her house in less than an hour. Totally legit. It happens.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am

The seller saw an acceptable offer and took it. Happened to me. We saw a house at 10pm and the agent said that she would put in an offer at 8 in the morning. An offer came in at 11pm and was accepted. We missed out on the house.

We were going to move and were on a house hunting trip. The agent had all the new listings and found a house we might be interested in that just came in the previous night. We went to the house where a bus load of the agency's people were touring the house. They did tours of all new listings every Tuesday morning. We sat until the bus left, toured the house and put in an offer. It was accepted before noon. No sign ever made it up until after the offer was accepted and a "sold" sign went in front.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by reggiesimpson » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:54 am

The same thing happened to me. A week later it came back on the market. I bought it immediately.

staythecourse
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 am

Nothing illegal about it with my limited experience. Unfortunately, someone beat you to the house. No reason you can't see the house and put a backup offer, in case, the primary buyer falls out.

I will say for the seller it is more advantageous to keep showing the house. The big mistake I did when I sold our last house by myself using a MLS listing service is stop showing the house when it was under contract. When the inspection does happen the buyer uses that leverage to demand some money back because of this reason or not. It would be advantageous to the seller to say, "Well if you don't like it no problem I have another contract ready to sign with another buyer". Better that way then feeling you are a hostage to the buyer otherwise having to start all over putting it back on the market.

Good luck.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by pshonore » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:12 am

Most MLS Boards probably have a rule about this.......the listing must be put into MLS within xx hours of a signed listing agreement. XX could 24, 48, etc. When I was an agent and selling in a hot market, we would routinely wait until the last possible minute to put it in MLS. Preferable to sell in house and not split the commission. Also all the in house agents shared whatever houses they were working and were likely to be listed in the next few days because everyone had buyers lined up. Of course the was all in the pre-Internet days when MLS published a bi-weekly listing book. Most agents did not how to use the one TTY computer terminal we had to search for new listings, what went under deposit, and input new listings, etc. Those who did were more successful

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by pshonore » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:18 am

staythecourse wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 am
Nothing illegal about it with my limited experience. Unfortunately, someone beat you to the house. No reason you can't see the house and put a backup offer, in case, the primary buyer falls out.

I will say for the seller it is more advantageous to keep showing the house. The big mistake I did when I sold our last house by myself using a MLS listing service is stop showing the house when it was under contract. When the inspection does happen the buyer uses that leverage to demand some money back because of this reason or not. It would be advantageous to the seller to say, "Well if you don't like it no problem I have another contract ready to sign with another buyer". Better that way then feeling you are a hostage to the buyer otherwise having to start all over putting it back on the market.

Good luck.
Generally not a good idea to keep showing if you reasonably expect the contract to go through. Now if there's a Hubbard clause (sale of buyers existing home), that's an entirely different matter. Most agents don't want to waste time showing buyers a house that's under contract. And the fact that you're going to continue to show should be in the original sale contract.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by capsaicinguy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:22 am

In the city where I just sold a house, it is extremely common to have agents have a house sold before even listing it. They know it's coming available, already have buyers looking for that price range/area/etc, and have it all lined up. "Listing with a sold sign". Buyers are happy because they got first crack, sellers are happy because it sold instantly without many showings/other hassles, and the agents get to pad their days on market numbers. If that is the kind of market you are house hunting in and your agent isn't bringing you these, IMO you need a better agent. If you're in a hot market you will deal with this a lot, the actual listing of the house is merely a formality. If you're looking for a "deal deal" on a house you will have to look at existing listings that have been up for a while, and they aren't moving for a reason. Full disclosure, I have two friends who are RE agents, but no ties to the industry myself.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:40 am

pshonore wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:18 am
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 am
Nothing illegal about it with my limited experience. Unfortunately, someone beat you to the house. No reason you can't see the house and put a backup offer, in case, the primary buyer falls out.

I will say for the seller it is more advantageous to keep showing the house. The big mistake I did when I sold our last house by myself using a MLS listing service is stop showing the house when it was under contract. When the inspection does happen the buyer uses that leverage to demand some money back because of this reason or not. It would be advantageous to the seller to say, "Well if you don't like it no problem I have another contract ready to sign with another buyer". Better that way then feeling you are a hostage to the buyer otherwise having to start all over putting it back on the market.

Good luck.
Generally not a good idea to keep showing if you reasonably expect the contract to go through. Now if there's a Hubbard clause (sale of buyers existing home), that's an entirely different matter. Most agents don't want to waste time showing buyers a house that's under contract. And the fact that you're going to continue to show should be in the original sale contract.
of course, the RA is not going to want to spend more time that is necessary to make x commission. I am saying it is not in the best interest to the seller to be in a situation where after inspection the buyer wants x dollars to fix y problems and your only option is to pay or have to go back onto the market and start the whole process again.

Since I sold my last house NO DOUBT I would have put it in the sales contract. It isn't like the buyer is going to get upset. As long as the sales contract goes through then no problem. Since, it is a legal enforceable contract. It is ONLY if there is an issue that may put the seller in a vulnerable position. Think about if you are past the duration for a mortgage contingency period and someone is having a tough time securing a mortgage. The ultimate trump card for seller is just to say, "Sorry you had your time and at this point we are going to go with a back up offer" vs. "Oh okay I guess we will just wait around until everything is sorted out". Contracts are all about risk mitigation.

Good luck.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by dm200 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:20 am

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm
The motorcyclesarecool family has been in the market for a house for the past year. Yesterday our buyer’s agent contacted us about a property that was at least 95% of our ideal and reasonably priced. We set up a showing for today. Showing was cancelled because the house went under contract last night. The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house. That has me wondering:
1. On what planet is it in the seller’s best interest not to wait for additional offers when the house just came on the market and showings are scheduled?
2. Could this be a case of a realtor attempting to goose his “average days on the market” stat?
3. If so, it seems like a fraudulent listing. Do I have any recourse? We had to arrange extra childcare. Is there any body that reigns in realtor shenanigans?
This year, in our locality, it is a very hot sellers market. I am either acquainted with or have heard credible reports of houses being sold within hours of the listing or a sign on the front lawn.

Others in the business might comment, but is, as a seller, the listing price is fairly set (considering the hot market) and you receive a full offer (or sometimes an offer above full asking price) from a solid buyer and no contingencies - it can make perfect sense to accept the offer.

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greg24
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by greg24 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:35 am

While this instance isn't fraud, and you have no recourse for your babysitting, you are working within a cartel. Good luck.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by jfn111 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:38 am

Just a couple of thoughts-
Pocket listings have been around for ever. You can sign a listing contract and then have the Seller sign a "withhold". This allows you to quietly market a property without actually putting it in MLS. (This is the only acceptable way to have a "coming soon" sign in MN.)

Sellers accept the first offer because they don't want people traipsing through their house. Often times people will opt for convenience rather than trying to squeeze the last penny out of a deal.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Nowizard » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 am

Not sure why the issue of fraud would even come up, though it would be very annoying to be in your position. A person can even sell their own house themselves after listing with a Realtor if they have an agreement that can be done before the listing goes live. Also, happens all the time that a Realtor mentions a house that is coming on the market to potential clients before it is formally listed.

Tim

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by motorcyclesarecool » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm

Nowizard wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 am
Not sure why the issue of fraud would even come up, though it would be very annoying to be in your position. A person can even sell their own house themselves after listing with a Realtor if they have an agreement that can be done before the listing goes live. Also, happens all the time that a Realtor mentions a house that is coming on the market to potential clients before it is formally listed.

Tim
Ok, how about a malafide listing?
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by mak1277 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:42 pm

Similar thing happened when we sold my mom's condo after she died. Listing agent told me almost immediately after we signed her up that she had a couple who would love the place. They ended up offering more than list price within 24 hours. Definitely never had a "for sale" sign up and it was the easiest process I could have imagined. As the seller (especially selling from 700 miles away), I couldn't have asked for more.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by chevca » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:48 pm

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm
Nowizard wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 am
Not sure why the issue of fraud would even come up, though it would be very annoying to be in your position. A person can even sell their own house themselves after listing with a Realtor if they have an agreement that can be done before the listing goes live. Also, happens all the time that a Realtor mentions a house that is coming on the market to potential clients before it is formally listed.

Tim
Ok, how about a malafide listing?
How about, let it go. :happy

They may have had a buyer lined up already, as mentioned. I believe even if it never gets a for sale sign in front and the buyer and seller arrange their own deal, the house still has to be listed on the MLS for some reason. Just to get an MLS number maybe?

Sounds like this one fit a lot of your wants and needs. So, it's understandable you're frustrated. But, no one was out to get you and doubtful anything shady was done. Move on and keep looking.

Have you looked at new construction homes? Find one you like, go under contract, wait for it to be built, and buy it. Too easy and you get to avoid the bidding wars and all.

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hand
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by hand » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:05 pm

Plenty of legitimate reasons for the circumstances described by the OP, though I've heard of similar sounding shenanigans with bank-owned properties where realtor under-prices and then steers the listing to an accomplice, so anything is possible.

As suggested above, no reason not to write a backup offer for a bit above list. Key dynamic to be aware of is that the listing agent may not have an obligation to present your offer to the seller if under contract and may see a second offer as a barrier to a quick clean sale and may therefore choose to bury it. If it were me, I would send the offer to the listing agent as a courtesy, but be sure to connect in person / registered mail with the actual owner to present an offer.

If your offer is compelling enough, and the buyers pull the typical nit-picky inspection renegotiation, your backup offer may win the day.

Good luck!

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Meg77 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:37 pm

In my neighborhood sometimes we get "coming soon" flyers for area homes that are going to be put on the market soon. We also see homes go under contract within a day or so of the listing going live. I asked a realtor friend about this practice once, and he explained that sometimes the realtor is trying to test the market and feel out the price before listing it. They advertise the planned listing with other realtors and even neighbors to gauge interest, which sometimes results in a buyer before it's even been listed.

In any event, sellers don't have time to see what other offers roll in. Offers are usually good for only 24 hours, forcing the seller to either accept or negotiate fairly quickly. If they say no just because they haven't had it listed long, they risk losing the one contract they already have in hand and not getting a better one.
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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Raybo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:54 pm

I used to run along the same route several times a week. One day, I was running past a house and noticed a For Sale sign on the lawn that hadn't been there the day before. I called the realtor, looked at the house and made an offer that day. All of this happened before there was even an open house for the local realtors or had been an open house for the public. The offer was accepted and I eventually bought (and sold) that house.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by rterickson » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:37 pm

Our house (buyers) listed on a Thursday, we made an offer on Friday, and had it under contract on Monday.

The contractor who installed the 'for sale' sign showed up about a week later.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by sailaway » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:40 pm

6miths wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:00 am
In most (all?) jurisdictions AFAIK real estate agents do not have a fiduciary responsibility to anyone. In our neck of the woods and in other hot markets there has been an uproar related to agent practices. Agents misleading sellers as to value of their properties, buying them from them and then reselling them. Sometimes without properties ever being on the open market. Over the years, I have been repeatedly impressed by the ability of agents to rationalize behaviors that are clearly not in their 'clients' interest.
Dang. I have a fiduciary responsibility to both the buyer and seller for a luxury item!

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by Nowizard » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:52 pm

"Mala fide" is essentially a synonym for "Fraud." What case could you make for that being the circumstance you describe?
Tim

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by unclescrooge » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 pm

motorcyclesarecool wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 pm
The motorcyclesarecool family has been in the market for a house for the past year. Yesterday our buyer’s agent contacted us about a property that was at least 95% of our ideal and reasonably priced. We set up a showing for today. Showing was cancelled because the house went under contract last night. The listing agent never even put a sign in front of the house. That has me wondering:
1. On what planet is it in the seller’s best interest not to wait for additional offers when the house just came on the market and showings are scheduled?
2. Could this be a case of a realtor attempting to goose his “average days on the market” stat?
3. If so, it seems like a fraudulent listing. Do I have any recourse? We had to arrange extra childcare. Is there any body that reigns in realtor shenanigans?
Unless you submitted an offer which was just ignored and not shown to the buyer I don't see how this is fraud.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 pm

6miths wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:00 am
In most (all?) jurisdictions AFAIK real estate agents do not have a fiduciary responsibility to anyone. In our neck of the woods and in other hot markets there has been an uproar related to agent practices. Agents misleading sellers as to value of their properties, buying them from them and then reselling them. Sometimes without properties ever being on the open market. Over the years, I have been repeatedly impressed by the ability of agents to rationalize behaviors that are clearly not in their 'clients' interest.
Also, there's no legal requirement that the seller take the highest offer. A seller can factor in other differences between offers (contingencies, financing, closing speed, etc) as long as their decision isn't discriminatory.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by DarthSage » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:28 am

A question for the OP--are you currently working with a realtor?

Here's the scenario that I envision: Family is looking for a new home. They choose a realtor to work with--maybe they're from out of town, maybe they just want the help with the process. The realtor knows what their housing hot buttons are, so he/she knows when a house hits the market that meets their criteria. In this day and age, it would be very simple to have some kind of software filter that spits out likely house matches pretty quick. And then it would be easy-peasy for the realtor to send multiple photos of the house to the client.

Especially if this family was relocating, they would probably have mortgage pre-approval and be in a hurry. Our last two moves, we had a relocation company helping us, to make sure everything went well, and we worked with a (now) local realtor who specialized in relocations--they're a sure thing, realtor-wise, but require a lot more realtor effort since a lot takes place long distance.

Bottom line, you got out-maneuvered, but nothing was illegal that I can see. There are steps you can take so you don't get out-maneuvered next time. Presenting a back-up offer wouldn't hurt. You might want to get the name of the buyer's broker--clearly, he/she gets the job done.

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by bottlecap » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:37 am

When I sold my last house, we had an offer before it went on the MLS. Someone had seen the realtor but the sign in the lawn the day before.

We had a deal in four days. And I was out of town. No one else saw it.

Go talk to an attorney about your fraud claim. If they take your case, I guarantee you they'll want at least a $10,000 retainer before they embark on your quest to recover the $30 you spent on child care. Maybe the talk will make you feel better.

JT

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Re: House on the market less than a day. Did listing agent commit fraud?

Post by dcd72 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:56 am

staythecourse wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:40 am
pshonore wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:18 am
staythecourse wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 am
Nothing illegal about it with my limited experience. Unfortunately, someone beat you to the house. No reason you can't see the house and put a backup offer, in case, the primary buyer falls out.

I will say for the seller it is more advantageous to keep showing the house. The big mistake I did when I sold our last house by myself using a MLS listing service is stop showing the house when it was under contract. When the inspection does happen the buyer uses that leverage to demand some money back because of this reason or not. It would be advantageous to the seller to say, "Well if you don't like it no problem I have another contract ready to sign with another buyer". Better that way then feeling you are a hostage to the buyer otherwise having to start all over putting it back on the market.

Good luck.
Generally not a good idea to keep showing if you reasonably expect the contract to go through. Now if there's a Hubbard clause (sale of buyers existing home), that's an entirely different matter. Most agents don't want to waste time showing buyers a house that's under contract. And the fact that you're going to continue to show should be in the original sale contract.
of course, the RA is not going to want to spend more time that is necessary to make x commission. I am saying it is not in the best interest to the seller to be in a situation where after inspection the buyer wants x dollars to fix y problems and your only option is to pay or have to go back onto the market and start the whole process again.

Since I sold my last house NO DOUBT I would have put it in the sales contract. It isn't like the buyer is going to get upset. As long as the sales contract goes through then no problem. Since, it is a legal enforceable contract. It is ONLY if there is an issue that may put the seller in a vulnerable position. Think about if you are past the duration for a mortgage contingency period and someone is having a tough time securing a mortgage. The ultimate trump card for seller is just to say, "Sorry you had your time and at this point we are going to go with a back up offer" vs. "Oh okay I guess we will just wait around until everything is sorted out". Contracts are all about risk mitigation.

Good luck.
On one hand you say that a backup offer (secured through continued showings after signing a contract) provides the seller with leverage and that the buyer can use the lack of a backup offer to his or her advantage (e.g., whittling down the sales price after inspection). But on the other hand, you state, "It isn't like the buyer is going to get upset" by continued showings. Those seem tough to reconcile, if the buyer or the buyer's agent is at all savvy.

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