Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

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F150HD
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by F150HD » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:41 pm

Feel like I'm missing pieces to the story.

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:41 pm

Slacker wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:21 pm
If your wife doesn't go back to that job - Did your estimate of $600 upside down include her unemployment benefits while looking for a new job?

I bet unemployment insurance benefits would cover your $600 gap.
Did not estimate unemployment and yes it will cover the -$600. So I guess technically I am not in the red.

ResearchMed
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 pm

Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:26 pm
Saving$ wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:53 pm
Depends upon
  • 1. Sounds like your wife's employer was laying her off, rather than firing her. Firing is usually for cause. Did the employer already give your wife any termination paperwork, or was it all verbal? This matters because if they did not give her any paperwork and it was all verbal, and they now want to reverse their decision with a 25% pay cut, they might be able to classify a refusal to accept that offer as a resignation...
    2. What are her prospects of landing another job within a few months?
    3. You state you have 12 months of emergency fund, and without her job you will be $600/m in the hole. We don't know if that $600 works out to 5% of your monthly budget or 50%, which makes a difference.
    4. You state you have a 4 month old. Do you have daycare costs? If so, what are those costs compared to your wife's proposed new salary?
If the prospect of landing another job within a few months is realistically high, and the $600/m is a smaller percentage of your monthly expenses, I would be inclined to politely the boss I've already made other plans and wish him a good Thanksgiving. Then take the next month to brush up the resume, spend time with the new baby, and brush up on networking for a big job hunt push.

If she gets unemployment, and you save on daycare costs, this could be could be cost neutral and give your wife an opportunity to get a job where she is appreciated and does not have an irrational boss.

On the other hand, if your wife prefers to work for her mental equilibrium, and she wants to go back, consider it temporary. She should brush up on the resume, network and start looking for another job.

- Landing a new job is often easier if you already have a job - employers want someone they perceive is wanted by someone else.
- New employers often want to know your current compensation and this is often difficult to avoid. This might be especially important if you think her previous compensation was 25% over market. She may be able to answer the question with something like "Last year I earned a total of..." or "Near the end of last year I was making $/hr." But if it is the type of job where they find out current / last employed rate, quitting while she is up might be helpful.
1. She was laid off and it was verbal.
2. Her prospects are going in landing job in next few months.
3. Being $600 in the hole, emergency funds would last around 10 years.
4. No daycare costs.

That's what I told her stay home for a few months and then start looking again. Good point on the salary.
It was VERBAL :annoyed

She'll no doubt need something in writing for unemployment, and Employer might not want to do that, so this situation might change for that reason alone.

RM
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Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:51 pm

TimeRunner wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:34 pm
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:14 pm
Her boss basically told her that the office is going thru a tough time and that she can have her job back at 25% reduction in pay.
The economy is booming, and unemployment is hitting new lows. If the business isn't successful now, how much more will employees have to sacrifice to support the business? Is the boss taking at 25% pay cut? Mubwahaha....

She needs to get a new job and get the heck out of there.
Same thing I told her economy is booming and not to worry.

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Mlm
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Mlm » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:52 pm

It almost sounds like the replacement she was training quit rather than was fired. Who evaluates someone’s performance in one day. What is the replacement in internal person?
Reality has a way of catching up with you

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:56 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 pm
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:26 pm
Saving$ wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:53 pm
Depends upon
  • 1. Sounds like your wife's employer was laying her off, rather than firing her. Firing is usually for cause. Did the employer already give your wife any termination paperwork, or was it all verbal? This matters because if they did not give her any paperwork and it was all verbal, and they now want to reverse their decision with a 25% pay cut, they might be able to classify a refusal to accept that offer as a resignation...
    2. What are her prospects of landing another job within a few months?
    3. You state you have 12 months of emergency fund, and without her job you will be $600/m in the hole. We don't know if that $600 works out to 5% of your monthly budget or 50%, which makes a difference.
    4. You state you have a 4 month old. Do you have daycare costs? If so, what are those costs compared to your wife's proposed new salary?
If the prospect of landing another job within a few months is realistically high, and the $600/m is a smaller percentage of your monthly expenses, I would be inclined to politely the boss I've already made other plans and wish him a good Thanksgiving. Then take the next month to brush up the resume, spend time with the new baby, and brush up on networking for a big job hunt push.

If she gets unemployment, and you save on daycare costs, this could be could be cost neutral and give your wife an opportunity to get a job where she is appreciated and does not have an irrational boss.

On the other hand, if your wife prefers to work for her mental equilibrium, and she wants to go back, consider it temporary. She should brush up on the resume, network and start looking for another job.

- Landing a new job is often easier if you already have a job - employers want someone they perceive is wanted by someone else.
- New employers often want to know your current compensation and this is often difficult to avoid. This might be especially important if you think her previous compensation was 25% over market. She may be able to answer the question with something like "Last year I earned a total of..." or "Near the end of last year I was making $/hr." But if it is the type of job where they find out current / last employed rate, quitting while she is up might be helpful.
1. She was laid off and it was verbal.
2. Her prospects are going in landing job in next few months.
3. Being $600 in the hole, emergency funds would last around 10 years.
4. No daycare costs.

That's what I told her stay home for a few months and then start looking again. Good point on the salary.
It was VERBAL :annoyed

She'll no doubt need something in writing for unemployment, and Employer might not want to do that, so this situation might change for that reason alone.

RM
Pardon my ignorance why would she need something in writing and why wouldn't employer want to do that? When the economy crashed about 8 years ago and I was laid off I didn't receive anything in writing.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by sco » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 pm

Mike Scott wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm
I would seriously question going back to this job/boss at any salary.
I agree completely. If they truly had someone lined up that was just cheaper, well why would you go back to that?

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 pm

Mlm wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:52 pm
It almost sounds like the replacement she was training quit rather than was fired. Who evaluates someone’s performance in one day. What is the replacement in internal person?
Not an internal person and replacement could hardly use a computer.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by SrGrumpy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:00 pm

Goal33 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 pm
How about a 25% cut and a 25% reduction in hours?
How about a 25% pay rise?

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Watty
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Watty » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:00 pm

Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:30 pm
With her filing for unemployment we would be in the green for the month. That's what I told her you get what you pay for. 25% less pay will only bring people who can't do her job.
I once worked for a privately owned company and one of the founding people was still there and working everyday and he was well into his 70's. He was a bit a "character" and one of his sayings was "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys." He was always pressing to hire the best people possible even if they cost more.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:02 pm

Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:56 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 pm
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:26 pm
Saving$ wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:53 pm
Depends upon
  • 1. Sounds like your wife's employer was laying her off, rather than firing her. Firing is usually for cause. Did the employer already give your wife any termination paperwork, or was it all verbal? This matters because if they did not give her any paperwork and it was all verbal, and they now want to reverse their decision with a 25% pay cut, they might be able to classify a refusal to accept that offer as a resignation...
    2. What are her prospects of landing another job within a few months?
    3. You state you have 12 months of emergency fund, and without her job you will be $600/m in the hole. We don't know if that $600 works out to 5% of your monthly budget or 50%, which makes a difference.
    4. You state you have a 4 month old. Do you have daycare costs? If so, what are those costs compared to your wife's proposed new salary?
If the prospect of landing another job within a few months is realistically high, and the $600/m is a smaller percentage of your monthly expenses, I would be inclined to politely the boss I've already made other plans and wish him a good Thanksgiving. Then take the next month to brush up the resume, spend time with the new baby, and brush up on networking for a big job hunt push.

If she gets unemployment, and you save on daycare costs, this could be could be cost neutral and give your wife an opportunity to get a job where she is appreciated and does not have an irrational boss.

On the other hand, if your wife prefers to work for her mental equilibrium, and she wants to go back, consider it temporary. She should brush up on the resume, network and start looking for another job.

- Landing a new job is often easier if you already have a job - employers want someone they perceive is wanted by someone else.
- New employers often want to know your current compensation and this is often difficult to avoid. This might be especially important if you think her previous compensation was 25% over market. She may be able to answer the question with something like "Last year I earned a total of..." or "Near the end of last year I was making $/hr." But if it is the type of job where they find out current / last employed rate, quitting while she is up might be helpful.
1. She was laid off and it was verbal.
2. Her prospects are going in landing job in next few months.
3. Being $600 in the hole, emergency funds would last around 10 years.
4. No daycare costs.

That's what I told her stay home for a few months and then start looking again. Good point on the salary.
It was VERBAL :annoyed

She'll no doubt need something in writing for unemployment, and Employer might not want to do that, so this situation might change for that reason alone.

RM
Pardon my ignorance why would she need something in writing and why wouldn't employer want to do that? When the economy crashed about 8 years ago and I was laid off I didn't receive anything in writing.
I wouldn't trust the Employer not to claim that she quit.
Wouldn't they have to verify? Otherwise, anyone who just "quit" could sign up for unemployment.

Perhaps things about unemployment have changed and/or they might differ from state to state, but years ago, I understood that there could be increases in what Employers had to pay, depending upon their "firing" practices, or such. That might be totally incorrect, but it's what I had been told the one time I worked for a small consulting company and got to hear about things that were more typically behind the scenes.

RM
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:03 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:00 pm
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:30 pm
With her filing for unemployment we would be in the green for the month. That's what I told her you get what you pay for. 25% less pay will only bring people who can't do her job.
I once worked for a privately owned company and one of the founding people was still there and working everyday and he was well into his 70's. He was a bit a "character" and one of his sayings was "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys." He was always pressing to hire the best people possible even if they cost more.
Love it! :happy
Hadn't heard that before.

RM
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mpsz
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by mpsz » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:03 pm

In my opinion, it's best to just avoid this whole mess and move on. There will be hurt feelings no matter the outcome, and adding that on top of an already stressful workplace or irrational boss is never a good thing.

Before you do this, check on what your state offers for unemployment insurance. If you're uncomfortable with this amount and still have a shortfall, you could go back, but I would strongly caution you to immediately start looking for a new job anyway. I think you could get between 75 - 100% of your wife's old salary back but it doesn't seem likely that you could get over 100% as some others have said -- the company appears to be looking for ways to reduce costs.

If you do go back... be wary of what the company considers your status to be. Does the company consider this a "break in service"? In other words... are you returning as a new employee? This could affect your benefits too.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by ThePrince » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:07 pm

Mike Scott wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm
I would seriously question going back to this job/boss at any salary.
+1

Coco nuts
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Coco nuts » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:21 pm

JMHO, Your wife may need and want a job, but she doesn't need this job.

Whatever her immediate decision is (stay on for full pay/ reduced pay/ reduced hours), she may want to start looking for a new job right away.

Or she may just consider taking EI and hang out with the baby for a few months...

Good luck!

boglebrain
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by boglebrain » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:16 am

I’m not an expert in this area so I may be off but it’s possible the company realized they may have violated the law. You wife recently took some maternity leave I assume since you have a 4 month-old. Sounds like your wife is very competent and does her job well. FMLA provides some protections to hold your job while you are out for events like birth and taking care of a newborn. A company cannot simply replace someone under these circumstances when that person is competent. The boss may have been annoyed she was absent, thought about her cost, and decided let’s just replace her. Then HR or someone realized there could be an issue. In fact there may already be an issue.

What size is the company? There are some limits to size of companies that FMLA applies. There are also often similar laws in most states that sometime cover even smaller firms.

I think you should talk to an employment lawyer. And you may be able to find someone for free or part of a network. Talking to a lawyer does not mean you necessarily are going down the road of suing and it becoming all public. It might just help in any negotiations if she is aware of her rights.

A good possible outcome could be a) she doesn’t see any salary reduction b) manager is replaced c) she gets more responsibility and a salary increase.

Goal33
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Goal33 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:18 am

SrGrumpy wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:00 pm
Goal33 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 pm
How about a 25% cut and a 25% reduction in hours?
How about a 25% pay rise?
Makes sense if she doesn't want to go back
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celia
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by celia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:20 am

Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:14 pm
...she was just let go and Wednesday will be her last day....I would have to think they could easily fire her again
Which is it? Was she fired (for cause) or laid off (because the business has financial difficulties)? It makes a difference when she tries to file for unemployment.
Btw her and our baby's insurance is thru her job, but I can always put them on my insurance.
I would be concerned that when she was first fired/laid off, HR initiated paperwork to end her benefits. I would put the family on your insurance until the next open enrollment period or she finds another job. Losing one's job is a qualifying event that allows you to put her and the baby on your insurance.

mouses
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by mouses » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:21 am

I think she should stay fired. She will find that not working for a crazy person improves her life considerably.

As for the replacement not even being able to use a computer, just another example of the manager being an incompetent idiot, and, also, karma.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by 3CT_Paddler » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:34 am

Don't take the pay cut - you don't need the job to make ends meet, and frankly it's an insult to any good employee to accept that in this economy. Either way start looking for a new job immediately.

TwstdSista
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by TwstdSista » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

This is probably a silly question, but would she even qualify for unemployment given the "new" job offer?

(Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with unemployment. But my sister owns a business and offered an employee part-time work instead of full-time work. *If* I remember correctly, said employee got reduced unemployment income based on the refusal of part-time work. Not sure if reduced income work applies, or if it varies by state, or if my memory is 100% wrong....)

quantAndHold
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:53 am

DW isn’t over 40 is she, and they’re trying to replace her with someone younger? Or a woman that’s being replaced with a man? Or a racial minority being replaced by someone white? Is this retaliation for being a whistleblower in some way? Anytime I hear about a company trying to get rid of an experienced employee and replace them with someone new, my spidey sense starts tingling. Besides the fact that it’s idiotic (a new, cheaper employee is unlikely to actually save them any money), it would be very easy for the company to be doing something illegal.

Personally, I would only go back at full salary, and then only long enough to find another job.

And training her own replacement? [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]

motorcyclesarecool
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by motorcyclesarecool » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am

lthenderson wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 pm
Normally I would say put the screws to the boss and demand more pay or something to offset the pay cut like more paid time off. But since you are $600/month upside down if she loses the job, I would probably go back to work for the pay cut and find another job asap. I would also be inclined to leave the minimal amount of notice for leaving once she has accepted a new job.
Precisely! I think since most BH types already are in a position to walk away (a position they cherish, no doubt) it’s biasing their advice a bit. I was subject to a “resource action” from my Dow component megacorp in ‘08. Nine months later, they came back and offered me my former position for less money. I took it. I had been working temp jobs and needed the benefits back. I focused my job search to the specific field I’m in now, and three years later, I left at the time of my own choosing. And even when I departed for a job that now pays me more than double my best year at megacorp, I didn’t quote Johnny Paycheck to the boss on my way out. There’s something to be said for keeping it professional and classy.
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LiveSimple
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by LiveSimple » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:32 am

People join a company, and leave their bosses.
Just stay at the same salary and look for a better job.
Just say, will stay if all compensation are the same, they have no choice, actively look out.

scorcher31
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by scorcher31 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:53 am

Personally I'd take the 25% cut to work 4 days a week, maybe have every Friday off. It would allow the company to cut costs which it sounds like they are trying to do but still keep someone competent around. You could start looking for a new job from there, and explain that the salary was for only 4 days a week if asked for future jobs so it can be taken into account. Just make sure she keeps her benefits.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by cherijoh » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:44 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:02 pm
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:56 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:48 pm
It was VERBAL :annoyed

She'll no doubt need something in writing for unemployment, and Employer might not want to do that, so this situation might change for that reason alone.

RM
Pardon my ignorance why would she need something in writing and why wouldn't employer want to do that? When the economy crashed about 8 years ago and I was laid off I didn't receive anything in writing.
I wouldn't trust the Employer not to claim that she quit.
Wouldn't they have to verify? Otherwise, anyone who just "quit" could sign up for unemployment.

Perhaps things about unemployment have changed and/or they might differ from state to state, but years ago, I understood that there could be increases in what Employers had to pay, depending upon their "firing" practices, or such. That might be totally incorrect, but it's what I had been told the one time I worked for a small consulting company and got to hear about things that were more typically behind the scenes.

RM
Employers are definitely required to verify that unemployment was due to a layoff. A former employer relocated out of state and technically I believe everyone was offered a transfer - although not everyone took the offer. We were told that the company wouldn't appeal a claim of unemployment if someone hadn't found a job by the time their severance pay ran out. (You couldn't collect severance and unemployment at the same time).

I agree with ResearchMed - under these circumstances the employer could very well claim that OP's wife was not fired. I'm not sure whether you would still be eligible for unemployment if you had to take a substantial pay cut in order to keep your job. And if so, how much it would need to be to qualify.

stats99
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by stats99 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:53 am

Take the Unemployment payout now, if she accepts the 75% offer, then he fires her, the UE will most likely be less.

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:56 am

TwstdSista wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am
This is probably a silly question, but would she even qualify for unemployment given the "new" job offer?

(Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with unemployment. But my sister owns a business and offered an employee part-time work instead of full-time work. *If* I remember correctly, said employee got reduced unemployment income based on the refusal of part-time work. Not sure if reduced income work applies, or if it varies by state, or if my memory is 100% wrong....)
She should qualify. Reduction in pay is the same as being fired in most cases. And you don't have to accept any job when unemployed. Now some of this might be state specific.

blinx77
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by blinx77 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:18 am

1. Your wife's boss treated her very poorly.
2. It is clear from the actions of the boss that she is competent, moreso than her competition.
3. The boss is not apologetic about treating her poorly and explicitly wishes to continue to do so (come back at a reduction of pay).
4. Relations between boss and wife will be strained from here on out -- hard to think of what her future at this company is going to be like.
5. I don't know your wife's exact job, but generally speaking the job market is pretty strong right now.
6. There is an opportunity cost to going back to work because it will limit the spare time to look for other positions. If she does not go back she can make the job search a full time endeavor.
7. She can collect unemployment while she looks for a new job.
8. She can spend more time with family while she looks for a new job.

Unless you desperately need the cash, there's no way I would go back under these circumstances. My counteroffer would be "I'll consult for you, $[300] an hour, ten hour minimum, forty hour a week maximum, that's it.

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dm200
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by dm200 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:20 am

telemark wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:32 pm
rob wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:57 pm
Careful about reduced hours.... Make sure it's not dropping her below the benefits.
Or they might agree to "reduced" hours and then pressure her to work as much as before.
High probability, in my opinion..

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dm200
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by dm200 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:22 am

stats99 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:53 am
Take the Unemployment payout now, if she accepts the 75% offer, then he fires her, the UE will most likely be less.
Yes -

and the details of qualifying for uneployment vary quite a bit by state (where the employer is located).

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Buford T Justiice » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 am

I would suggest researching unemployment under both full pay (now) and 25% reduction in pay (going forward) scenarios.

Do they want her back at 75%, is this part time, will she be able to collect unemployment later if she accepts the 25% reduction?

Are "part time" employees able to collect unemployment in your state?

Are they trying to get her to accept 75%, then fire her, and she can't collect unemployment?

Good luck!

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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by KlangFool » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:36 am

scorcher31 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:53 am
Personally I'd take the 25% cut to work 4 days a week, maybe have every Friday off.
scorcher31,

Come on. The usual case is even with a pay cut and/or 4 days a week, the boss will overwork the employee up to 5 days worth of work.

KlangFool

Payoffhouse
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 1:31 pm

Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:01 am

celia wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:20 am
Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:14 pm
...she was just let go and Wednesday will be her last day....I would have to think they could easily fire her again
Which is it? Was she fired (for cause) or laid off (because the business has financial difficulties)? It makes a difference when she tries to file for unemployment.
Btw her and our baby's insurance is thru her job, but I can always put them on my insurance.
I would be concerned that when she was first fired/laid off, HR initiated paperwork to end her benefits. I would put the family on your insurance until the next open enrollment period or she finds another job. Losing one's job is a qualifying event that allows you to put her and the baby on your insurance.
She was laid off. Her benefits are good thru the end of the month is she doesn't accept 25% cut.

vested1
Posts: 1461
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by vested1 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:06 am

The thing for your wife to keep in mind is that she is obviously valuable or they would not have asked her back nor asked her to train her replacement. They don't own her, and accepting a 25% reduction in pay is a slap in the face. If she does take the job back, regardless if she accepts the reduced pay or not, she should immediately look for another job, and when she finds one, give them zero notice, not the 2 days they gave her. This would not be revenge, but merely justice.

This exact thing happened to me when I was sixty, due to my refusal to cheat the customer at the demand of my directors girlfriend. I was laid off under a pretense of austerity. My wife and I celebrated by taking a 2 week trip to Hawaii and I collected unemployment for 6 months at the max, while searching for another job. At sixty, the job prospects are slim, and 6 months of applying went nowhere. The same director who laid me off called me back as soon as my unemployment expired, claimed they were in financial distress but needed me back, and rehired me at a 25% reduction in pay. When I left their employ for the next job having been pursued by a competitor, my pay was doubled. They got 1 hours notice during which time I reminded them of how I was treated. They were left with a black hole in their technology department, and never did find a viable replacement. Hard cheese and all that.

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:53 am
DW isn’t over 40 is she, and they’re trying to replace her with someone younger? Or a woman that’s being replaced with a man? Or a racial minority being replaced by someone white? Is this retaliation for being a whistleblower in some way? Anytime I hear about a company trying to get rid of an experienced employee and replace them with someone new, my spidey sense starts tingling. Besides the fact that it’s idiotic (a new, cheaper employee is unlikely to actually save them any money), it would be very easy for the company to be doing something illegal.

Personally, I would only go back at full salary, and then only long enough to find another job.

And training her own replacement? [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
Being replaced by someone younger, man, etc not that case. It's all about the money. They were ok with paying her top dollar but I guess now not anymore. They have mortons's steak house taste but only have McDonald's type money.

Thats what I told her [about - moderator prudent] training her replacement, she doesn't owe them anything and the nerve of her employer to even ask her that. That day I told her to quit right there on the spot.

Payoffhouse
Posts: 103
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:10 am

stats99 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:53 am
Take the Unemployment payout now, if she accepts the 75% offer, then he fires her, the UE will most likely be less.
Even with a salary reduction, she would still get the max.

mortfree
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by mortfree » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:11 am

Payoffhouse wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 am


Thats what I told her [about - moderator prudent] training her replacement, she doesn't owe them anything and the nerve of her employer to even ask her that. That day I told her to quit right there on the spot.
I think the last thing someone who is being let go should say is I quit - then they lose the chance for unemployment?

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:11 am

blinx77 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:18 am
1. Your wife's boss treated her very poorly.
2. It is clear from the actions of the boss that she is competent, moreso than her competition.
3. The boss is not apologetic about treating her poorly and explicitly wishes to continue to do so (come back at a reduction of pay).
4. Relations between boss and wife will be strained from here on out -- hard to think of what her future at this company is going to be like.
5. I don't know your wife's exact job, but generally speaking the job market is pretty strong right now.
6. There is an opportunity cost to going back to work because it will limit the spare time to look for other positions. If she does not go back she can make the job search a full time endeavor.
7. She can collect unemployment while she looks for a new job.
8. She can spend more time with family while she looks for a new job.

Unless you desperately need the cash, there's no way I would go back under these circumstances. My counteroffer would be "I'll consult for you, $[300] an hour, ten hour minimum, forty hour a week maximum, that's it.
Agree on every point.

Payoffhouse
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Payoffhouse » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:12 am

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:36 am
scorcher31 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:53 am
Personally I'd take the 25% cut to work 4 days a week, maybe have every Friday off.
scorcher31,

Come on. The usual case is even with a pay cut and/or 4 days a week, the boss will overwork the employee up to 5 days worth of work.

KlangFool
I forgot to mention that they want to switch her to hourly.
Last edited by Payoffhouse on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

mouses
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by mouses » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:13 am

Payoffhouse wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:53 am
DW isn’t over 40 is she, and they’re trying to replace her with someone younger? Or a woman that’s being replaced with a man? Or a racial minority being replaced by someone white? Is this retaliation for being a whistleblower in some way? Anytime I hear about a company trying to get rid of an experienced employee and replace them with someone new, my spidey sense starts tingling. Besides the fact that it’s idiotic (a new, cheaper employee is unlikely to actually save them any money), it would be very easy for the company to be doing something illegal.

Personally, I would only go back at full salary, and then only long enough to find another job.

And training her own replacement? [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
Being replaced by someone younger, man, etc not that case. It's all about the money. They were ok with paying her top dollar but I guess now not anymore. They have mortons's steak house taste but only have McDonald's type money.

Thats what I told her [about - moderator prudent] training her replacement, she doesn't owe them anything and the nerve of her employer to even ask her that. That day I told her to quit right there on the spot.
There was an article in the nytimes recently about about to be laid off manufacturing workers having to train their foreign country replacements. If I remember correctly, at least one particularly skilled woman was promised a $5000 bonus or somesuch for doing that, she did it, the company did not pay her the bonus.
Last edited by mouses on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nyc10036
Posts: 355
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Nyc10036 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

The state will verify with the employer.
Happened to me 2 years ago.
Since the layoff was verbal, they can claim that no such thing happened.

Demand same salary. Do not breathe a word about collecting unemployment to the employer..
Just say you need to be paid the same as before.

KlangFool
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by KlangFool » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:15 am

Payoffhouse wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:12 am
KlangFool wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:36 am
scorcher31 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:53 am
Personally I'd take the 25% cut to work 4 days a week, maybe have every Friday off.
scorcher31,

Come on. The usual case is even with a pay cut and/or 4 days a week, the boss will overwork the employee up to 5 days worth of work.

KlangFool
I forgot to mention that hey want to switch her to hourly.
Payoffhouse,

That means she may get zero benefits. And, her hours could be cut at any time.

Just say no.

KlangFool

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dm200
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by dm200 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:19 am

Nyc10036 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am
The state will verify with the employer.
Happened to me 2 years ago.
Since the layoff was verbal, they can claim that no such thing happened.
Demand same salary. Do not breathe a word about collecting unemployment to the employer..
Just say you need to be paid the same as before.
Yes -
I forgot to mention that they want to switch her to hourly.
No labor law expert here - BUT an employer cannot just decide this. The requirements are (or should be) based on compliance with the details of the law and regulations - and the job she actually does.

2pedals
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by 2pedals » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:32 am

If it were me, I don't think I would ever go back. Her boss fired her and want to hire her back at less pay and less benefits. They have vicious intentions. Keep a copy of the pink slip and new offer, it might help her explain things when looking for a new job.
Last edited by 2pedals on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:35 am

I would delay answering and let them sweat a little. Negotiate a much higher salary because it’s only temporary.

bjc3
Posts: 72
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by bjc3 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:46 am

Payoffhouse wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:56 pm
bjc3 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:52 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:40 pm
OnTrack2020 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:38 pm
My guess is that there may not be enough money to pay her possibly, therefore the request of the 25% pay cut??
OnTrack2020,

That is not OP's wife's problem. It is not her business. If there is not enough money to get it done right, then, it is probably not important.

KlangFool
^This. I’m wondering why they didn’t just ask upfront for her to take the pay cut if the company's financials were an issue? Was she already training her replacement?

As everyone else has already stated, 1) don’t take the pay cut, 2) go back to work to cover expenses, 3) find another job.

Good luck.
Like I said boss is irrational. That's what me and DW were talking about why didn't they ask her first. They hired her replacement over the weekend and she started her training today.

After reading the new/additional information from the OP that came after my initial post, I am changing my opinion on this. I would not advise your wife to go back.

Payoffhouse wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:11 am
blinx77 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:18 am
1. Your wife's boss treated her very poorly.
2. It is clear from the actions of the boss that she is competent, moreso than her competition.
3. The boss is not apologetic about treating her poorly and explicitly wishes to continue to do so (come back at a reduction of pay).
4. Relations between boss and wife will be strained from here on out -- hard to think of what her future at this company is going to be like.
5. I don't know your wife's exact job, but generally speaking the job market is pretty strong right now.
6. There is an opportunity cost to going back to work because it will limit the spare time to look for other positions. If she does not go back she can make the job search a full time endeavor.
7. She can collect unemployment while she looks for a new job.
8. She can spend more time with family while she looks for a new job.

Unless you desperately need the cash, there's no way I would go back under these circumstances. My counteroffer would be "I'll consult for you, $[300] an hour, ten hour minimum, forty hour a week maximum, that's it.
Agree on every point.
+1. Take a break during the holidays. Enjoy quality time at home with family while looking for a new job.

remomnyc
Posts: 499
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Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by remomnyc » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:51 am

I would offer to return at a 25% increase to be paid on a hourly basis for a 4-day work week, the net effect being same salary for fewer hours. This way, if they try to overwork her in the four days she's there, they will be paying her for those over-time hours. I would concurrently start a job search. It is much easier to find a job while employed.

Nyc10036
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by Nyc10036 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:57 am

2pedals wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:32 am
If it were me, I don't think I would ever go back. Her boss fired her and want to hire her back at less pay and less benefits. They have vicious intentions. Keep a copy of the pink slip and new offer, it might help her explain things when looking for a new job.
No pink slip!
He said. She said.
May be no unemployment.
This is a crucial point that many of you are missing.
Take it from someone who has collected UI 4x in the past 15 years.

TheRightKost87
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Location: Boston, MA

Re: Help DW gets fired, but then next day her boss offers her job back

Post by TheRightKost87 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:00 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:53 am
DW isn’t over 40 is she, and they’re trying to replace her with someone younger? Or a woman that’s being replaced with a man? Or a racial minority being replaced by someone white? Is this retaliation for being a whistleblower in some way? Anytime I hear about a company trying to get rid of an experienced employee and replace them with someone new, my spidey sense starts tingling.
Talk about jumping to conclusions. Although striving to be offended seems to be all the rage recently.

If any of those scenarios is true *and they were done with intentional malice*, then the company should be held accountable, but from what I've read from OP, he didn't give anything to indicate those were true.
"The problem with diversification is that it works, whether or not we want it to"

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