This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

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investingdad
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This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by investingdad » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 pm

The biggest positive that came from investing heavily for retirement very early on was that now, at 44...I don't stress about the corporate BS, power struggles, and fighting to climb the ladder for that ever bigger bonus.

I. Just. Don't. Care.

And the best part is, I can afford not to.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my work. But I'm at that point where peers are desperate to move into bigger ranks and the egos are getting ever larger. I'd like nothing to do with it.

I'd like to keep working and hope I will. But my tolerance for the day to day:

-policy changes
-work process changes
-org and reporting structure
-new director initiatives driven solely because of their desire to "make an impact"
-sycophancy (is that a word?)

...is REALLY getting old.

Invest early!

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neurosphere
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by neurosphere » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:54 pm

investingdad wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 pm
I'd like to keep working and hope I will. But my tolerance for the day to day:

-policy changes
-work process changes
-org and reporting structure
-new director initiatives driven solely because of their desire to "make an impact"
-sycophancy (is that a word?)
I'll bet that your tolerance for those things is HIGHER than it otherwise would be, in that you know that you can walk away if you want to. It may be more irritating intellectually, but at the gut-emotional level, I assume it's less stressful because you know you don't HAVE to deal with 20+ more years of it, unless the job is otherwise fulfilling.

I have a slide in my financial lectures which states that "Retirement is not the day you stop working, it's the day you COULD stop working, if you wanted to". Saving for retirement should not be thought of as denying oneself current pleasures, but rather helping to "buy", earlier than otherwise, freedom from the NEED to have a job.
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes".

retiredjg
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by retiredjg » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:55 pm

Yes it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophancy

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hoppy08520
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by hoppy08520 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:38 pm

Same here. I started investing at 22 and now I’m in my upper 40s. I’m not close to retirement yet but I don’t feel great pressure to maintain a high-pressure, high-salary job. If my career slows down and I can no longer save a lot, I should have enough saved already that I should be in good shape.

Life Is Good
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by Life Is Good » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:12 pm

Exactly. You and I are about the same age and I'm glad I stuck with my plan even at a "young" age. Even in 2009 when I saw my portfolio over 10 years go into negative total returns, I wasn't worried. In fact, I invested more. And like you, I've reached the point at work where I don't worry so much anymore. Sure I enjoy my job and don't plan on retiring quite yet, but it's nice to know that I have a very solid cushion so that if things were to go bad - health, job, you name it, we would likely be just fine.

I try my best to preach to these fresh-out-of-college kids at work about the necessity to start young but for the most part it falls on deaf ears. But every now and then, there is that one guy who I know I've helped and who will be a great success as well.

I've been very thankful for this site as well. I don't post as much as maybe I should, but I've learned so much and it has led me to great success.

My tolerance for the day to day grind that the OP mentions is identical. Do we work in the same industry? Ah, they're probably all the same... :D

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:29 pm

hoppy08520 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:38 pm
Same here. I started investing at 22 and now I’m in my upper 40s. I’m not close to retirement yet but I don’t feel great pressure to maintain a high-pressure, high-salary job. If my career slows down and I can no longer save a lot, I should have enough saved already that I should be in good shape.
Same almost except for ages. Either you pay now or you pay later, I chose to take the pain upfront when others were too busy donating to the AnheuserBusch retirement fund. :wink:
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Pacman
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by Pacman » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:41 pm

InvestingDad - I've really enjoyed reading your past posts and hope to be in a similar position at your age. That said, If you are basically in 'coast mode' and have no desire to move up, aren't you running the risk of your situation at work to get even worse as less talented people get promoted and become your direct supervisor? I'm 30 years old and my only motivation to get promotions in my career so far have been due to irritation with seeing less talented individuals at levels above me, and becoming so irritated that I was willing to make aggressive moves. I feel lucky that I have smart people above me now, but if that ever changed, I don't think I would be happy. I only bring this up because I'm willing to bet most people would rather work for someone like you versus your other colleagues "gunning" for those jobs.

WalterMitty
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by WalterMitty » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:11 pm

investingdad wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 pm
The biggest positive that came from investing heavily for retirement very early on was that now, at 44...I don't stress about the corporate BS, power struggles, and fighting to climb the ladder for that ever bigger bonus.

I. Just. Don't. Care.

And the best part is, I can afford not to.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my work. But I'm at that point where peers are desperate to move into bigger ranks and the egos are getting ever larger. I'd like nothing to do with it.

I'd like to keep working and hope I will. But my tolerance for the day to day:

-policy changes
-work process changes
-org and reporting structure
-new director initiatives driven solely because of their desire to "make an impact"
-sycophancy (is that a word?)

...is REALLY getting old.

Invest early!

Amen brother!!!!

I'm in the same boat.

Even when I was making peanuts I started saving.For some reason I got into a phase of reading every personal investing article, magazine or book I could get my hands on. Rich Dad/Poor Dad, The Millionaire Next Door, The Weathly Barber, Debt Free & Prosperous Living, etc.

I'm very lucky that got into that phase. I started saving early and attacked debt.

I'm 48 now, and completely understand the midlife crisis thing. I'm happily married, but sooooo over the corporate BS that goes on daily. The work that I do is great, but having to wade through all the corporate dogma and adults that act like toddlers is taking its toll. I can't imagine dealing with that and being up to my eyeballs in debt with zero savings.

Grasshopper911
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by Grasshopper911 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:30 pm

Amen, and congratulations on your success.

We are the same age. Until a couple of years ago, I never saw myself retiring until 60's. Now, I can't imagine doing anything full time beyond early 50's. I would enjoy making partial income on a board or two thereafter, but will definitely be out of the daily grind.

I was fortunate to crack into the executive level relatively early in my career and see exactly what you and others are referring. I'm a firm believer in the Peter Principle, where people are promoted one level beyond their capability. I've seen it happen many times - especially with heavy job hoppers - where the skeletons don't catch them as quickly. Great for a medium term run, but when they flare out... They really flare out and take a tumble into job seeking purgatory.

The comment about retirement starting when you are able to retire is so true. A bad day has a completely different meaning when you have the ability to simply say thank you and goodbye.

In addition to your comment about starting to invest young, it’s also important not to be unrealistic in your lifestyle. While we don’t live a very frugal lifestyle by Boglehead standards, many successful folks get caught in the trap of trading up lifestyle with each milestone. They normally end up treading water later in their careers in which they are miserable and "trapped".

bigred77
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by bigred77 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:42 pm

I’m actually glad I started saving aggressively at 23 precisely so I can make my own run at climbing the corporate ladder.

I’ve seen some ambitious people 10+ years my senior make aggressive career choices that backfire when someone else gets that promotion they were gunning for and suddenly they’re on the outs. They often leave out of frustration/embarrassment or are unofficially asked to leave because they weren’t a part of the alliance of people who now have the clout.

I probably have a decade more before I can run in those circles but it will be nice to know I have funds to fall back on if I suffer a career setback.

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ClevrChico
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by ClevrChico » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:57 pm

I completely agree. DS and I had this same conversation this week.

Putting so much effort into tax inefficient, W2-income when you're already mid-career is a fool's game. Is it worth working 2X or 3X as hard to net an extra $1k/month? (That's about all I could realistically grow my income with really stretching for a promotion.) Index investing @ 20 years in makes far more passively than I could net climbing the ladder.

I do like parking my humble car in "muscle car row" or "luxury car row" at work and checking out what big money buys. :-)

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FIREchief
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by FIREchief » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:21 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:29 pm
Either you pay now or you pay later, I chose to take the pain upfront when others were too busy donating to the AnheuserBusch retirement fund. :wink:
Oh, come on now. :D Beer consumption is highly unlikely to be a make or break part of ones overall financial strategy. Expensive travel. Vacation homes. Boats. Fancy cars. Fancy wives. Fancy houses that are just a whole lot nicer than those owned by my "friends"/family/coworkers/etc. Absolutely. A case of beer now and then. No way. :sharebeer :beer :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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FIREchief
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by FIREchief » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:24 am

ClevrChico wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:57 pm
I do like parking my humble car in "muscle car row" or "luxury car row" at work and checking out what big money buys. :-)
This!! ^^^^

I used to really enjoy parking my 15+ year old small pickup next to the Lexus's and other new vehicles driven by those who worked for me at Megacorp. They thought I was bankrupt and/or an idiot for driving an inexpensive paid off vehicle. FIRE was my last laugh. 8-)
Last edited by FIREchief on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

davidsorensen32
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by davidsorensen32 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:34 am

How much are we talking about ? $3M ? $4M ? When does money 💰 become “enough” that you stop clamoring for promotions ? I did the same as you - ie started saving at 21, drove old cars.
investingdad wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 pm
The biggest positive that came from investing heavily for retirement very early on was that now, at 44...I don't stress about the corporate BS, power struggles, and fighting to climb the ladder for that ever bigger bonus.

I. Just. Don't. Care.

And the best part is, I can afford not to.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my work. But I'm at that point where peers are desperate to move into bigger ranks and the egos are getting ever larger. I'd like nothing to do with it.

I'd like to keep working and hope I will. But my tolerance for the day to day:

-policy changes
-work process changes
-org and reporting structure
-new director initiatives driven solely because of their desire to "make an impact"
-sycophancy (is that a word?)

...is REALLY getting old.

Invest early!

bulbul
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by bulbul » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:52 am

I am wondering to open an account for my young son now. Maybe it is under my name due to other complicate issues to have a child account.

sambb
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by sambb » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:20 am

I started inverting early also, but i take s different view.
I am sometimes the beneficiary of an unfortunate state in which there are people at work who can't understand the politics or how to support the corporate mission. This way, those of us that understand how to move the company forward, are able be effective leaders, and also this allows for corporate advancement and extra income. I am so glad that corporate leadership has moved me forward as the company has grown, and this ensured my retirement. I give back by mentoring other future leaders in the same way, but i won't be successful on individuals that may not understand leadership or corporate mission. I am not concerned about the mediocre workers, they often are entitled, but they likely will not receive advancement or large raises - their productive colleagues will, and kudos to them! WE certainly want employees that CARE, as every company does.

harvestbook
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by harvestbook » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:25 am

For me the entire goal is financial independence. Retirement and all the rest is optional!

I turned down promotions in my job because I knew I wanted a real career working for myself. Now I have that career and it will last as long as my brain is viable, if I want. Investing sure helps with the "independence"part.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

David Scubadiver
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by David Scubadiver » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:11 am

I never felt financially independent. But the past 18 months have certainly made me feel close. Knock on wood that it doesn’t go away as fast as it came.

Wings5
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by Wings5 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:01 am

I'm certainly not financially independent (yet), but we live well below our income and invest the rest. I could take a decent pay reduction but I enjoy what I do, if not the hours. At 33 there is plenty of (perceived) upward mobility going on around me but I don't need to jump on the crazy train of "I will do anything!"

Incidentally, I met our company president through a mutual friend and the big boss had me to his office for about an hour (our company has +60,000 employees). This issue came up and he said he took the same road. Lived humbly, kept his head down, helped others and never worried about getting ahead. "It just kind of...happened."

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ClevrChico
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:45 am

sambb wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:20 am
I started inverting early also, but i take s different view.
I am sometimes the beneficiary of an unfortunate state in which there are people at work who can't understand the politics or how to support the corporate mission. This way, those of us that understand how to move the company forward, are able be effective leaders, and also this allows for corporate advancement and extra income. I am so glad that corporate leadership has moved me forward as the company has grown, and this ensured my retirement. I give back by mentoring other future leaders in the same way, but i won't be successful on individuals that may not understand leadership or corporate mission. I am not concerned about the mediocre workers, they often are entitled, but they likely will not receive advancement or large raises - their productive colleagues will, and kudos to them! WE certainly want employees that CARE, as every company does.
You can be a top worker/producer and not advance or receive a large raise. It's a very real thing.

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hoppy08520
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by hoppy08520 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:53 am

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:24 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:57 pm
I do like parking my humble car in "muscle car row" or "luxury car row" at work and checking out what big money buys. :-)
This!! ^^^^

I used to really enjoy parking my 15+ year old small pickup next to the Lexus's and other new vehicles driven by those who worked for me at Megacorp. They thought I was bankrupt and/or an idiot for driving an inexpensive paid off vehicle. FIRE was my last laugh. 8-)
Same here. Seems like most of my younger colleagues have BMWs and Lexus. I commute to work on a 22-year-old Trek bicycle. I reckon I save $2,000+ annually on gas, insurance, maintenance, etc., plus it’s healthier.

investingdad
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by investingdad » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:05 am

Let me be clear.

I care about my work. My success becomes the company success. And I endeavor to do it well. That why I'm still employed after rounds of reductions over the years.

What I don't care about is the sleazy maneuver of a new VP that sliced bonuses in half this year. I don't care about the arrogant director that feels the need to remind us that he has the CEO's cellphone number. I don't care about the idiotic job hopper VP that is so ignorant of the technical side of the division he runs it's an embarrassment listening to him talk about the business.

Don't care.

You're fighting to get that extra 50k a year salary? Go for it. I don't need it because our portfolio says, relaxe.

That's my point and that's thanks to starting this fun journey at 23.

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ClevrChico
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:20 am

hoppy08520 wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:53 am
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:24 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:57 pm
I do like parking my humble car in "muscle car row" or "luxury car row" at work and checking out what big money buys. :-)
This!! ^^^^

I used to really enjoy parking my 15+ year old small pickup next to the Lexus's and other new vehicles driven by those who worked for me at Megacorp. They thought I was bankrupt and/or an idiot for driving an inexpensive paid off vehicle. FIRE was my last laugh. 8-)
Same here. Seems like most of my younger colleagues have BMWs and Lexus. I commute to work on a 22-year-old Trek bicycle. I reckon I save $2,000+ annually on gas, insurance, maintenance, etc., plus it’s healthier.
I bet you have more fun on your Trek too! The only thing keeping me from selling the car and biking year round is brutal winters.

TRC
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by TRC » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:40 am

Amen! I’ve heard this is called “F U money”? I’m in a similar boat. Started investing at 22 and and about to turn 40. House paid for, no debt other than an investment property that will be paid off in 7 years. Started contributing to my 401k and Roth IRA right out of college. I was very fortunate that I started to make a lot of money starting at age 27 (performance based sales position). Used the commissions and bonuses to pay off our house by 35, maxed out 401ks, backdoor Roth IRAs and contributed aggressively to my taxable account. Also lived nicely too - vacations, nice cars, etc...but all paid in cash. Investments always came first though.

I changed jobs 2 years ago and I’m not nearly making as much money as I did at my prior company. That being said, we’re on auto pilot. Our portfolio just crossed 1.3m and our networth is around 2.3m. I hope to punch out of the corporate world (or be in a financial position to punch out) by early 50s, if not sooner. Investing is slow and boring. That being said, the effects of compounding interest have really started to show its power for us in the last 5 years.

kjvmartin
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by kjvmartin » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:24 am

ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:45 am

You can be a top worker/producer and not advance or receive a large raise. It's a very real thing.
I work in a large local government and have found this rings true there. There are no unscheduled raises, but in regards to promotions. We have workloads mandated by policy. There are workers who are constantly beyond that workload number and never complain. They also learn special skills. Once you learn a special skill, there's no additional pay or recognition, but an awful lot more work and frustration. Then, you get trapped because you're too hard to replace. They'd have to put 1.5 or 2 workers in your place and train them on the special skills you learned.

Who seems to be promoted? People with similar cultural, ethnic, college, and "greek" backgrounds as the majority of management. There are outliers, but few and far between.

staythecourse
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by staythecourse » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:29 am

kjvmartin wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:24 am
ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:45 am

You can be a top worker/producer and not advance or receive a large raise. It's a very real thing.
I work in a large local government and have found this rings true there. There are no unscheduled raises, but in regards to promotions. We have workloads mandated by policy. There are workers who are constantly beyond that workload number and never complain. They also learn special skills. Once you learn a special skill, there's no additional pay or recognition, but an awful lot more work and frustration. Then, you get trapped because you're too hard to replace. They'd have to put 1.5 or 2 workers in your place and train them on the special skills you learned.

Who seems to be promoted? People with similar cultural, ethnic, college, and "greek" backgrounds as the majority of management. There are outliers, but few and far between.
Right or wrong I really am a believer the folks who move up are those who play the "game". They know how to work the system and have great social skills. I'm a physician and it always amazes me the most successful docs I have seen are NEVER the best in their field at the same hospital. They have great social/ people skills and run a smooth practice.

This realization is a BIG reason I care more about if my kids are good socially then if they are intelligent in their future fields of interest. Folks who move up the chain are often not the best at what they do, but the best at presenting themselves to their bosses. Sad, but true. I think it is a skill like any other that needs to be honed to be good at.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

mak1277
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by mak1277 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:34 am

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:21 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:29 pm
Either you pay now or you pay later, I chose to take the pain upfront when others were too busy donating to the AnheuserBusch retirement fund. :wink:
Oh, come on now. :D Beer consumption is highly unlikely to be a make or break part of ones overall financial strategy. Expensive travel. Vacation homes. Boats. Fancy cars. Fancy wives. Fancy houses that are just a whole lot nicer than those owned by my "friends"/family/coworkers/etc. Absolutely. A case of beer now and then. No way. :sharebeer :beer :sharebeer
I don't necessarily agree. When I first started my career, I drove a modest (used) car, lived in a modest (studio) apartment and my only real extravagance was going out with friends (a.k.a - the A-B retirement fund). Student loans were also a fairly heavy drain, but I wasn't taking crazy vacations or doing other fancy things. But, I chose to go out and enjoy life and didn't start contributing to my 401(k) or really saving at all until I was about 30. Fortunately for me I've been fairly successful in my career and those "missed" contributions would be less than 2% of my overall net worth now.

wolf359
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Re: This is why I'm glad I started investing at 23

Post by wolf359 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:08 am

Life Is Good wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:12 pm
Exactly. You and I are about the same age and I'm glad I stuck with my plan even at a "young" age. Even in 2009 when I saw my portfolio over 10 years go into negative total returns, I wasn't worried. In fact, I invested more. And like you, I've reached the point at work where I don't worry so much anymore. Sure I enjoy my job and don't plan on retiring quite yet, but it's nice to know that I have a very solid cushion so that if things were to go bad - health, job, you name it, we would likely be just fine.

I try my best to preach to these fresh-out-of-college kids at work about the necessity to start young but for the most part it falls on deaf ears. But every now and then, there is that one guy who I know I've helped and who will be a great success as well.

I've been very thankful for this site as well. I don't post as much as maybe I should, but I've learned so much and it has led me to great success.

My tolerance for the day to day grind that the OP mentions is identical. Do we work in the same industry? Ah, they're probably all the same... :D
Same here. I noticed, however, that when I find a younger "kindred spirit," they already get LBYM and invest your savings. I'm not convincing anybody of anything, only preaching to the choir. The ratio of those who "get it" about savings/investment and those who don't is about 1 in 5, which is consistent with the general population.

The one thing I wish I had had when I was young was that someone told me about the Bogleheads strategy. One guy was trading in individual stocks, and I've convinced him of the wisdom of index funds (and limiting the individual stocks to 10% of his portfolio.) The other guy was trading 100% in commodities. He does a play fund as well, for bitcoin. I don't understand what he's doing, and he doesn't understand what I'm doing. I guess I'm now the old stodgy guy who is way too conservative. The last bear market was when he was in high school, and not investing.

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