PA Speeding Ticket?

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BlackHawk31
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PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by BlackHawk31 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am

Hi Bogleheads,

Looking for some guidance. Yesterday I got my first speeding ticket ever. The cop pulled me over in this backroad at night claiming I was doing 55mph in a 35 zone. He came back and wrote it up as doing 40mph in a 35 zone and said no points would be awarded against my license.

He made it seem like he was giving me a break. No idea how fast I was going but there were many cars in front of me and I was merely keeping up with them. It was dark with no surrounding lights either.

I’m debating whether to hire an attorney here to fight this or if its just worth paying. Even there are no points, I’m worried about any possible insurance hikes if I plead guilty.

Its worth mentioning I have access to no cost attorney support but not sure if I want to deal with the headache.

Anyone have any experience in how to handle this? This occurred in PA.

By the way, the current proposed fee is $140. I'm not worried about the ticket money, more about the record and possible insurance impact.

Thanks.
Last edited by BlackHawk31 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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samsoes
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by samsoes » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:53 am

Pay the ticket and move on. Life's too short.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:57 am

Free lawyer? Absolutely fight it.

You were moving as traffic was moving. You weren't doing anything dangerous. You were pulled over because the cop has quotas to fill and the police department has revenue to bring in. That is the only reason. If a Federal law was passed that all ticket revenue went to the Federal coffers, how many tickets do you think would be written? I'd guess about 5% of what's written today.
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munemaker
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by munemaker » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:58 am

I live in PA and do get cited for speeding every few years.

Actually the officer is giving you a break by writing the ticket for 40 mph rather than 55 mph. Not only would you receive points on your record, the fine (and associated fees would be much higher. I have often read that if you challenge a ticket and go to a hearing, that they will often reduce the charge (like to a non-moving violation that does not affect your insurance), or if you are really lucky, the officer may not show up and the charge would be dropped. I recently retired and prior to that, never had the time to waste on such things; today I do and would if I received a ticket.

As far as a lawyer, you could do that, but I doubt it would change anything.

BlackHawk31
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by BlackHawk31 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:09 am

A few things that come to mind are:

-It's the end of the month - quota consideration.
-Traffic moving in front of me, I was the last car in the pack and feel like I was picked off.
-No street lights or any indication of speed limit on the road.
-The road traveled is a road we don't normally drive on and were coming back from an event with GPS assist.
-What speed I was driving is irrelevant.

I realize he's giving me a break on the speed he thought I was doing, but that may be a way to ease a citizen into just accepting the fee and not challenging it.

As a side note, the cop checked off the 40 in a 35 box, but in the comments section wrote 55 mph and "no points". I suspect the latter piece is to be able to hold the charge in court.

My main concern is that if you fight it, what's the chance that they could add points or steeper fines if you fail to prove innocence?

Longdog
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Longdog » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:21 am

Pay it and forget it. If it is your first and you've been driving for a while, the chance of it happening again in the near future are very small. Unless you place a negligible value on your personal time, it is not worth your time or energy.
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sschoe2
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by sschoe2 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:29 am

I always go to court. There is always a chance the cop isn't there and it gets tossed. Also it discourages this law enforcement as a means to extort money from citizens. You don't make much profit on a $150 ticket that costs $500 worth of court admin costs.

I got a ticket in Ohio on I-75 and had to court twice and ended up pleading down to a non-moving violation. I paid the fine but again it cost them more in court admin than they got from the ticket.

If everyone went to court there wouldn't be ticket quotas and other nonsense.

scorcher31
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by scorcher31 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:48 am

Personally I would pay it and be done. If it is one of those work legal programs they are not going to represent you in court. If you truly have access to a free lawyer friend/family that will represent you then get there opinion. Usually around here they let you change from a high speed moving offense to a non moving offense to drop the points and it doubles the fine. The officer already gave you a no points charge with a low fine. It's probably going to cost you more in lost wages or vacation time to travel to court/attend court. My insurance never increased with a no points charge. Also keeping up with traffic doesn't help with anything.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:05 am

Were you speeding?

If so, take your medicine. It will build character.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:28 am

BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:09 am
A few things that come to mind are:
. . .
-What speed I was driving is irrelevant.
I’m not sure I understand this statement. Can you elaborate?

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Pajamas
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Pajamas » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:41 am

BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am
No idea how fast I was going
Do you have any reason to think that you were not speeding? When driving, 35 mph feels very slow and for me, it usually takes a conscious effort to not exceed it.
I’m debating whether to hire an attorney here to fight this
Assuming that the officer didn't completely botch filling out the ticket, on what grounds?

In my salad days, I was fond of speed. I did get a ticket dismissed once because the officer did not show up to traffic court and I observed that cases were dismissed if the recipient pled not guilty and the officer was not present to testify. The next time I tried that, in a different court, the hearing was rescheduled so that the officer could appear. So it might be worth going to court just to see what happens.

The fact that the officer made the ticket out for less than the observed speed may mean that he hoped that you would just pay it, especially if you live elsewhere, but it may mean that he was just being nice. Sometimes if you go to court as opposed to paying by mail or online there are additional fees, so take that under consideration.
BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am
Its worth mentioning I have access to no cost attorney support
So perhaps discussing this with the attorney would be the best course of action. However, I suspect that the attorney will tell you to just pay it, as long as the ticket itself is valid.

sschoe2
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by sschoe2 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:57 am

In most places, going to court does not risk increasing your penalty. It almost always results in reducing it because once you end up in court your ticket becomes not profitable and costs them more and more so they really want to get rid of you as quickly as they can.

Lou354
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Lou354 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:08 am

No points? Just pay it. The judge won’t agree with you that what speed you were driving is irrelevant.

HoosierJim
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by HoosierJim » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:22 am

You can get a remote lawyer (just find one close to the court house) and avoid the appearance. Everybody is in such a hurry and needs to be more aware of their speed.
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:57 am
You were moving as traffic was moving. You weren't doing anything dangerous.
This must be what the mob of cars tailgating each other down our residential streets think. I understand that people are sometimes not aware how fast they are going BUT --- Pedestrian and bike deaths INCREASING - crazy. ? I found setting my cruise - just button click on the steering wheel helps otherwise it's easy to forget.




Speeding and drunk driving deaths are nearly the same (2016 data)
Drunk-driving deaths (10,497 fatalities) increased by 1.7 per­cent;
Speeding-related deaths (10,111 fatalities) increased by 4.0 percent;

Code: Select all

 USDOT Releases 2016 Fatal Traffic Crash Data
Distraction-related deaths (3,450 fatalities) decreased by 2.2 percent;
Drowsy-driving deaths (803 fatalities) decreased by 3.5 percent;
Drunk-driving deaths (10,497 fatalities) increased by 1.7 per­cent;
Speeding-related deaths (10,111 fatalities) increased by 4.0 percent;
Unbelted deaths (10,428 fatalities) increased by 4.6 percent;
Motorcyclist deaths (5,286 fatalities – the largest number of motorcyclist fatalities since 2008) increased by 5.1 percent;
Pedestrian deaths (5,987 fatalities – the highest number since 1990) increased by 9.0 percent; and
Bicyclist deaths (840 fatalities – the highest number since 1991) increased by 1.3 percent.

2pedals
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by 2pedals » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:51 am

BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am
Hi Bogleheads,

.<cut>. first speeding ticket ever. The cop pulled me over in this backroad at night claiming I was doing 55mph in a 35 zone. He came back and wrote it up as doing 40mph in a 35 zone and said no points would be awarded against my license.

He made it seem like he was giving me a break. No idea how fast I was going but there were many cars in front of me and I was merely keeping up with them. It was dark with no surrounding lights either.

.<cut>.By the way, the current proposed fee is $140. I'm not worried about the ticket money, more about the record and possible insurance impact.

Thanks.
I think this is your fault. You should have known how fast you were going. Trying to keep up with someone in front of you can be dangerous at high speeds. I think the officer was being very lenient to you. Since you are not worried about the ticket money I would just pay the fine. If you are worried about possible insurance rate increases pay attention to your driving speeds and the law.

I have in the past challenged a ticket that I had that i thought was "grossly" unfair. I don't view this as unfair. Do you view it as unfair?
Last edited by 2pedals on Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

stan_the_man
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by stan_the_man » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:53 am

You might be able to beat the ticket based on the fact that the speed limit must be posted every 1/2 mile to be enforceable:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/leg ... &subsctn=0
§ 3362. Maximum speed limits.
(a) General rule.--Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with section 3361 (relating to driving vehicle at safe speed), the limits specified in this section or established under this subchapter shall be maximum lawful speeds and no person shall drive a vehicle at a speed in excess of the following maximum limits:
(1) 35 miles per hour in any urban district.
(1.1) 65 miles per hour or 70 miles per hour for all vehicles on freeways where the department has posted a 65-miles-per-hour or 70-miles-per-hour speed limit.
(1.2) 25 miles per hour in a residence district if the highway:
(i) is not a numbered traffic route; and
(ii) is functionally classified by the department as a local highway.
(2) 55 miles per hour in other locations.
(3) Any other maximum speed limit established under this subchapter.
(b) Posting of speed limit.--
(1) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1), (1.2) or (3) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected in accordance with regulations adopted by the department which regulations shall require posting at the beginning and end of each speed zone and at intervals not greater than one-half mile.
(2) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1.1) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected after each interchange on the portion of highway on which the speed limit is in effect and wherever else the department shall determine.

In addition, if the speed limit decreases they can't enforce the lower speed limit for 500 feet:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/LEG ... HTM&ttl=75
(e) Distance requirements for use of mechanical, electrical and electronic devices.--Mechanical, electrical or electronic devices may not be used to time the rate of speed of vehicles within 500 feet after a speed limit sign indicating a decrease of speed. This limitation on the use of speed timing devices shall not apply to speed limit signs indicating school zones, bridge and elevated structure speed limits, hazardous grade speed limits and work zone speed limits.

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Kenkat
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Kenkat » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:15 am

I would probably pay this; the goal of going to court for a speeding ticket is 1) hope the ticket is dismissed due to a no show or 2) try to get the ticket reduced to a fine, no points citation. Since the officer already offered you 2, I’d probably just take that and move on.

Speeding tickets can be a grey area. Some will say “were you speeding?” and therefore, you are automatically at fault. However, there are also situations where speed limits are set artificially low to generate revenue for the local jurisdiction. These situations are more of a driving tax than a safety issue, but it is what it is.

theplayer11
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by theplayer11 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:28 am

well, if you had no idea how fast you were going, then you probably deserve the ticker..pay it and move on

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:46 am

great posts everyone. This is one more reason everyone should be wanting fully autonomous vehicles. When there's only driverless cars, there'll be no more speeding tickets. Then the municipalities will have to find other ways of raising money.

I love sschoe2's post and never considered that (because I had no way of knowing how much in court costs it actually costs others). How do you know it costs $500 in court costs to the police to show up to court? Where did you get that figure?

The only problem with this line of thinking as I see it, is that it doesn't matter that the court costs are more than what they're recovering. If they wind up losing money, who do you think pays that? Joe and Jane taxpayer makes up the difference in higher taxes in the future. So if everyone shows up to court it doesn't disincentivize legal proceedings. It just makes those proceedings more expensive and paid for by the taxpayers (or fines get further raised and paid for by speeders, which would be more fair).

I fought a ticket once (showed up to court) and the fine was reduced and since the speed was also reduced in court, no points were issued (which was my main concern). So the reason to show up is:
1. the whole thing might be thrown out if the cop doesn't show
2. the speed and/or fine might be reduced

the reason to not show up is:
1. supposedly no points as is (I'd make sure of that)
2. your time is worth more than the savings from the fine reduced or eliminated (in case of cop no show)
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DaftInvestor
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by DaftInvestor » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:50 am

Speeding just because others are is not a valid defense. I wouldn't waste the time and effort on fighting it. If you did the crime pay the fine.

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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by an_asker » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:11 pm

BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am
Hi Bogleheads,

Looking for some guidance. Yesterday I got my first speeding ticket ever. The cop pulled me over in this backroad at night claiming I was doing 55mph in a 35 zone. He came back and wrote it up as doing 40mph in a 35 zone and said no points would be awarded against my license.

He made it seem like he was giving me a break. No idea how fast I was going but there were many cars in front of me and I was merely keeping up with them. It was dark with no surrounding lights either.

I’m debating whether to hire an attorney here to fight this or if its just worth paying. Even there are no points, I’m worried about any possible insurance hikes if I plead guilty.

Its worth mentioning I have access to no cost attorney support but not sure if I want to deal with the headache.

Anyone have any experience in how to handle this? This occurred in PA.

By the way, the current proposed fee is $140. I'm not worried about the ticket money, more about the record and possible insurance impact.

Thanks.
Over two decades ago, as a graduate students in the DFW metroplex, I had visited a friend of mine in Aggieland (Texas A&M, for those unfamiliar). My friend's sister needed a ride to Austin - and I was planning to drive to Austin on my way back anyway. So, we left in the twilight hours and I started driving on the highway. Note that I had recently acquired a driver's license (this was a rental car), within the last couple of years. I was at the front of a few cars and was not doing too good with headlights beaming at me. So, I proceeded to speed up a bit to put some space between me and the car behind. Yup, he was a cop! :oops:

This was an era before the internet (well, at least outside Grad School), and for sure, I didn't think there was a way I would be able to come back to that county at the drop of a hat to give my testimony and plead my (justifiable) case. I quietly paid the $100 (or so, more or less) fine out of my monthly graduate stipend of about $800, less about $400 for tuition! :evil:

Fast forward to the latest one in my collection! Had taken time off from office to pick up DW who was returning from a visit to her parents abroad. While going to the airport, I had gotten stuck in traffic - the direct non-toll road was closed - and ended up taking the toll roads. Coming back, even though I was getting late for work, decided to take the non toll road back but needed to detour around the traffic. Apparently, the thoroughfare that appeared to be 40 mph street was really a 30 mph zone! So, yup! Got pulled over.

Blessing my actions with the Bogleheads' logic of "one's got to fight these tickets", I found an attorney online who claimed to fight and win 95+% of his cases. Sent an email, and got a response back that same evening from the factotum seeking responses to some questions. I sent in the details. Never heard back. I guess they specialize in clients who've got multiple or major violations. I was too small fry for him. So, again, I paid up! :oops:

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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:15 pm

stan_the_man wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:53 am
You might be able to beat the ticket based on the fact that the speed limit must be posted every 1/2 mile to be enforceable:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/leg ... &subsctn=0
§ 3362. Maximum speed limits.
(a) General rule.--Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with section 3361 (relating to driving vehicle at safe speed), the limits specified in this section or established under this subchapter shall be maximum lawful speeds and no person shall drive a vehicle at a speed in excess of the following maximum limits:
(1) 35 miles per hour in any urban district.
(1.1) 65 miles per hour or 70 miles per hour for all vehicles on freeways where the department has posted a 65-miles-per-hour or 70-miles-per-hour speed limit.
(1.2) 25 miles per hour in a residence district if the highway:
(i) is not a numbered traffic route; and
(ii) is functionally classified by the department as a local highway.
(2) 55 miles per hour in other locations.
(3) Any other maximum speed limit established under this subchapter.
(b) Posting of speed limit.--
(1) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1), (1.2) or (3) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected in accordance with regulations adopted by the department which regulations shall require posting at the beginning and end of each speed zone and at intervals not greater than one-half mile.
(2) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1.1) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected after each interchange on the portion of highway on which the speed limit is in effect and wherever else the department shall determine.

In addition, if the speed limit decreases they can't enforce the lower speed limit for 500 feet:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/LEG ... HTM&ttl=75
(e) Distance requirements for use of mechanical, electrical and electronic devices.--Mechanical, electrical or electronic devices may not be used to time the rate of speed of vehicles within 500 feet after a speed limit sign indicating a decrease of speed. This limitation on the use of speed timing devices shall not apply to speed limit signs indicating school zones, bridge and elevated structure speed limits, hazardous grade speed limits and work zone speed limits.
Looks to me like the speed limit is 55 where you were stopped.

On cost, in our courts (Massachusetts), the lump together all the tickets so a cop will show up for literally 100 tickets. Not a big cost.

How do PA tickets get handled? In Mass, the first step is a hearing before a magistrate. EITHER side can appeal, so even if the magistrate finds you not responsible, the cop (usually just an administrator....cop doesn't have to show up) can appeal it.

In court, yes, the cop has to show up. Prosecution goes first, so if there's nobody there to say anything, you can literally say "I wasn't speeding". There is lack of prosecution and you win. (that happened to me once).
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Sandtrap
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:15 pm

As long as there are no points to raise my insurance premiums, I pay it.
Lately I've been trying to play the "aging senior" sympathy card. Visible cane in the backseat. Handicap plates. Slouched posture. Tired Puppy eyes :shock: .
Doesn't always work, especially if you have a Passport radar detector on the dash, but worth trying the next time you get stopped.

Longdog
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Longdog » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:18 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:46 am
great posts everyone. This is one more reason everyone should be wanting fully autonomous vehicles. When there's only driverless cars, there'll be no more speeding tickets.
Because software is infallible.
Steve

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:21 pm

Longdog wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:18 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:46 am
great posts everyone. This is one more reason everyone should be wanting fully autonomous vehicles. When there's only driverless cars, there'll be no more speeding tickets.
Because software is infallible.
Never said it was but I'd trust a car that's programmed to not go above the speed limit more than most humans who view speed limits as a nuisance/inconvenience and rarely abide by it. Plus I'm interested in either having lower insurance rates (which likely would occur due to far fewer accidents) or none at all in the case we're all ride sharing and there's no need to even own an expensive vehicle that mostly sits idle in a parking lot most hours of the day while one's at work. That's just me.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

fsrph
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by fsrph » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:33 pm

I'd show up at the hearing. Often they further reduce the charges just to quickly dispose of the case. You seem to not know what speed you were driving at. If you were just keeping up with traffic, and everyone was speeding, that is not a valid defense. The magistrate is not going to believe your guess at what speed you were traveling at over the officers testimony.

I once received a red light ticket. Looked up the rules and the yellow light was much to short in duration. Went to the hearing with documents to support my case. When case was called officer immediately offered a non moving violation with a small fine. Magistrate asked me if I'd accept that and I said I have these documents to prove my case. Magistrate said you can present the documents if you wish but you're not going to do better than the officers offer. They just wanted to settle the case quickly and move on to the next case.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

MoonOrb
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by MoonOrb » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:38 pm

It's been a long time since I got a speeding ticket in PA--I never tried to fight them. If you're not getting any points, just pay this $140 and move on. The fact that you were the only car pulled over is meaningless--he can only pull over one car, after all. A buddy of mine tried this argument in court once, when he fought a ticket, and the exchange was like this:

"Son, have you ever been fishing?"

"Yes, of course."

"Do you catch every fish?"

If you didn't know how fast you were going, there's a pretty good chance that you were speeding. And even if you weren't "Your honor, I don't know how fast I was going but I think the officer was picking on me" won't get you very far. 35 feels like crawling unless you're driving through a city street or somewhere like that.

This would be a much different question if the cop had not prematurely reduced the violation. Since he has, the time: value proposition here is much, much lower.

If it's a matter of principle for you and you're the type of person who enjoys spending their time going to court and dealing with stuff like this, you don't need us to tell you what to do, your mind is already made up. If you don't enjoy those things, for heaven's sake, spare yourself the hassle. Either way, start paying attention to how fast you're driving.

chevca
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by chevca » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:54 pm

You have no idea how fast you were going... the speed you were going is irrelevant.... and everyone else was doing it. Sounds like you have a solid case to fight it. :wink:

Katietsu
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by Katietsu » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:57 pm

BlackHawk31 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:31 am
Hi Bogleheads,

Looking for some guidance. Yesterday I got my first speeding ticket ever. The cop pulled me over in this backroad at night claiming I was doing 55mph in a 35 zone. He came back and wrote it up as doing 40mph in a 35 zone and said no points would be awarded against my license.

He made it seem like he was giving me a break. No idea how fast I was going but there were many cars in front of me and I was merely keeping up with them. It was dark with no surrounding lights either.

I’m debating whether to hire an attorney here to fight this or if its just worth paying. Even there are no points, I’m worried about any possible insurance hikes if I plead guilty.

Its worth mentioning I have access to no cost attorney support but not sure if I want to deal with the headache.

Anyone have any experience in how to handle this? This occurred in PA.

By the way, the current proposed fee is $140. I'm not worried about the ticket money, more about the record and possible insurance impact.

Thanks.
In my experience, if you were in an unincorporated area, you would go to magistrate's court. Again, just anecdotally, they take traffic court seriously in the non urban areas.

What would your defense be? Based on your own words, you can not honestly testify that you were not speeding. The records have you at 20 mph over the speed limit. That is a very serious violation. I do think the officer was doing you a favor.

The purpose of going to court under the scenario you describe would most frequently be to get the offense reduced to a zero point violation. You already have that. I think it would be very unusual to get a 20 mph violation dropped.

It would also be unusual for a single zero point violation to affect your insurance rates. I would pay the ticket and drive under the speed limit for 3 years.

I am not sure why the speed of the other drivers, the lighting conditions, etc are relevant except for that is why you already were given a 0 pt violation.

tim1999
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by tim1999 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:14 pm

In PA, only the state police can use radar. Local police have to use a timing device, typically timing the movement of your car between perpendicular lines painted across the road or by the time it takes you to drive through a set of devices they have to place on the side of the road. This typically means the cop would have to be able to clearly see the lines, which at night is questionable. I don't think I've ever heard someone getting a speeding ticket from a local PA cop at night as a primary offense in this fashion.

If this wasn't a state trooper, I suspect the cop knew the stop was questionable by being at night and was hoping that by giving you a "break" to a violation that didn't involve points, you would just pay it and move on and not question it in court.

If it was a state trooper, it was probably a legitimate radar/laser trap and he likely got you fair and square.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by DaftInvestor » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:30 pm

chevca wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:54 pm
You have no idea how fast you were going... the speed you were going is irrelevant.... and everyone else was doing it. Sounds like you have a solid case to fight it. :wink:
The "Everyone else was doing it" excuse doesn't work for looting nor speeding nor any other crime. The speed is completely relevant (and probably captured by the police officer).

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Re: PA Speeding Ticket?

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:41 pm

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