2018 ACA costs arrived

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hicabob
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2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by hicabob » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:40 am

I just received my 2018 cost estimates from Kaiser. For an unsubsidized bronze HSA plan - single male 61yo the insurance will be $700.42/month which is a 9.4% increase.
Not too bad I suppose. Anyone else have a data point?

MP123
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by MP123 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:53 am

I got notice from Regence that they will no longer offer insurance in our area. So will have to look for a new policy Nov. 1 There aren't many insurers left either on or off the exchange where we live.

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Soaker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Soaker » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:04 pm

Nevada's increases:
For 2018 there are seven insurance companies offering plans on and off the Exchange in the individual market in Nevada. The approved average rate change in the individual market on and off the Exchange is 31.6%.

On the individual Exchange market, there are two insurance companies offering plans: Health Plan of Nevada and SilverSummit Health Plan. The average approved rate increase for Health Plan of Nevada is 36.8%. Because SilverSummit Health Plan is new to the Exchange in Nevada there is not a 2017 rate for comparison.
I'm in a county that was going to be "bare" until Centene/SilverSummit announced its entry to the market in August. My gross premium for 2017 for a subsidized bronze plan was $665/mo. The lowest-priced subsidized bronze plan available to me in 2018 is $992/mo. Because the state Division of Insurance granted higher increases for comparable silver plans than for comparable bronze plans, my pro-forma run through IRS Form 8962 shows that my own monthly payment will go down quite a bit, but my subsidy will more than double.

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southerndoc
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by southerndoc » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:47 am

I can't get individual insurance next year unless I go with Kaiser. Kaiser isn't that great in Georgia (not contracted with many hospitals). Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Humana, Aetna, and United all exited the individual market. A ton of small business owners and independent contractors will have only a single choice (Kaiser) unless they join PEO/ASO's.

Dilbydog
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Dilbydog » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:53 am

hicabob wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:40 am
I just received my 2018 cost estimates from Kaiser. For an unsubsidized bronze HSA plan - single male 61yo the insurance will be $700.42/month which is a 9.4% increase.
Not too bad I suppose. Anyone else have a data point?
My high deductible plan with HSA, through my employer, will be going up 10% in 2018. Not apples to apples but hopefully not completely useless data.

Ruger
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Ruger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:51 am

My premium is going up 32% for a new plan that is not as good as the previous one I had.
I don't know why they call it the "Affordable" Care Act when it's not exactly affordable.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 am

My ACA insurance provider says 2018 cost will not be available until 11/01/2017.

BarbK
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by BarbK » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am

The good news: I am going on Medicare so premiums will be $134+$98 (or $33) = $232 or $167 vs $744.72 for an ACA, Bronze, $6350 each deductible policy.

2017 we have a Bronze policy from (BC/BS) Florida Blue and it is going up 18% for 2018. No subsidy; Deductible $6350 each, HSA eligible. At least it will be only one person paying this rate.

None of the other providers in our area have provided rates yet.

Premiums have increased 40% from 2015-2017 all out of pocket and that was with switching providers every year; otherwise would have been much worse. In 2015, 2016 I was able to pay via CC (accumulate lots of points), but no so in 2017 with B/C B/S.

It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies

For the poster above that questioned the rates from year to year for the same age, they went up 14% vs 18%. $652.74 ('17) vs $744.72 ('18)

furwut
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by furwut » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:23 am

I’m curious to know what 2018 rates will be in my location as well. Haven’t received my renewal letter yet. In any event I’ll have a subsidized policy so I expect I’ll pay pretty much the same as last year.

I vaguely recall language in the ACA that, starting in 2019, a ceiling comes into effect limiting how much the government will subsidize and, if breached, the expected contributions from those receiving support would be increased.

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:45 am

hicabob wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:40 am
I just received my 2018 cost estimates from Kaiser. For an unsubsidized bronze HSA plan - single male 61yo the insurance will be $700.42/month which is a 9.4% increase.
Not too bad I suppose. Anyone else have a data point?
It actually may not be an "overall" 9.4% increase either. Depending on the state, your 9.40% may include an increase based on your age as well.

My wife and I are on a Kaiser Medicare (Cost) plan in the Washington DC area - and we love it - BOTH high qualify care and low cost.

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:51 am

southerndoc wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:47 am
I can't get individual insurance next year unless I go with Kaiser. Kaiser isn't that great in Georgia (not contracted with many hospitals). Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Humana, Aetna, and United all exited the individual market. A ton of small business owners and independent contractors will have only a single choice (Kaiser) unless they join PEO/ASO's.
I would not judge Kaiser negatively based on limited hospital contracts. In this area, for example, Kaiser (except for emergency rooms) only contracts with a few hospitals, but they have Physicians at those hospitals serving Kaiser patients. Kaiser terminated the arrangement with the largest hospital in the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington DC to focus their patient care to one or two other hospitals. My wife was hospitalized two years ago and it was excellent care and treatment. Her wing was a "Kaiser Only" wing. I think the issue is "quality" and not "quantity".

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southerndoc
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by southerndoc » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:05 pm

Kaiser patients here are transferred frequently to in-network hospitals, sometimes over an hour away.

curmudgeon
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by curmudgeon » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:22 pm

Rates for my plan (Kaiser Bronze HDHP) increased about 7% for 2018. In my area, I think there are 5 total providers, most with multiple plans, though I'm not sure if there are any PPOs left. We can live with Kaiser (though I have found their billing much more annoying now that we are on HDHP vs the old standard HMO days). With the weirdness of ACA subsidy rules, in 2018 I can let our gross income run up to $64,960 and still have effectively a net zero premium for the HDHP plan, even more generous than 2017. Of course, if I let the income hit $64,961, then we end up paying over $15,000 per year in premiums...

With fund cap gains and dividend distributions not being fully predictable, managing the AGI can be a bit tricky, but since a significant chunk of our gross income will likely be Roth conversions, I should be able to recharacterize if needed to stay on the safe side of the cliff. I definitely worry about the potential for some odd, after-the-fact tax adjustment to come in and force us to do an amended return after I've locked down the Roths; that could be quite expensive. I will probably try to stay a couple thousand below the cliff as a safety margin.

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tuningfork
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by tuningfork » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:36 pm

My non-subsidized silver plan is up 23% with a slight decrease in coverage. But the good news is, for the first time in years if I do nothing I still have health insurance next year. My insurer is still in the marketplace and still offers the same plan. Haven't had that luxury since I left Megacorp.

vbdoug
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by vbdoug » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm

Hell to be old, but I am so glad to be on Medicare.

denovo
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by denovo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am


It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies


That's not how it works. Those getting subsidies are getting funded by the the revenue raisers in the ACA. Your premium isn't being diverted to those getting subsidies.

limeyx
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by limeyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:57 am

hicabob wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:40 am
I just received my 2018 cost estimates from Kaiser. For an unsubsidized bronze HSA plan - single male 61yo the insurance will be $700.42/month which is a 9.4% increase.
Not too bad I suppose. Anyone else have a data point?
My employer plan went up 25%
Employer says they absorbed 15% leaving me 10%
I pay about $700/month for my portion alone (employer pays a similar or greater amount) for a family of 4

limeyx
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by limeyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:00 am

MP123 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:53 am
I got notice from Regence that they will no longer offer insurance in our area. So will have to look for a new policy Nov. 1 There aren't many insurers left either on or off the exchange where we live.
Regence was up ~25% for us! (Seattle area)

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Taz
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Taz » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:36 am

FL Blue small business HMO plan for 8 participants had a 14% increase (last year was 18%, year before about 20%) plus the total out-of -pocket increased $1000. Example of premium cost: Employee only - 9,988 per yr (of which company pays 50%)

Premiums are higher since the average age of the covered pool is over 50. Large companies have a more age diverse group so the same plan costs much less.
The destination matters.

scrabbler1
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by scrabbler1 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:48 am

A few months ago, I got a letter from OSCAR (NY) telling me my rate for a Silver plan would rise by 16%. The small subsidy I get will probably rise enough to offset some of that. But once OSCAR releases their plan descriptions next month, I will run the numbers to see if I should switch to their Bronze plan and forgo the subsidy.

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:50 am

vbdoug wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm
Hell to be old, but I am so glad to be on Medicare.
+1 :happy :D :oops:

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by munemaker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 am

denovo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am


It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies


That's not how it works. Those getting subsidies are getting funded by the the revenue raisers in the ACA. Your premium isn't being diverted to those getting subsidies.
That is true for the premium subsidies (<400% of federal poverty level), but perhaps not for cost sharing reductions received by those with very low incomes (<250% of federal poverty level). If the government chooses not fund the CSRs, insurance companies will pass that cost on to the premiums of those insured who are not subsidized. They really do not have much of a choice. That's my understanding anyway.

EyeDee
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by EyeDee » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 am

.
I believe how much the cost sharing reduction subsides (CSRs) are spread if they are not paid by the federal government depends upon the state. In some states the increase is being restricted to silver plans on the exchanges which would mean the increase is covered by increased subsides for the premiums for those plans.

In California for example I believe I read the silver plans off the exchanges and bronze/gold/platinum on and off the exchanges would not have their premiums increased to cover cost sharing subsidies. I believe I read Indiana is allowing the costs to be spread more, but I am not sure if that was only to non-silver plans on the exchanges or if it extended to plans off the exchanges.
munemaker wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 am
denovo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am
It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies
That's not how it works. Those getting subsidies are getting funded by the the revenue raisers in the ACA. Your premium isn't being diverted to those getting subsidies.
That is true for the premium subsidies (<400% of federal poverty level), but perhaps not for cost sharing reductions received by those with very low incomes (<250% of federal poverty level). If the government chooses not fund the CSRs, insurance companies will pass that cost on to the premiums of those insured who are not subsidized. They really do not have much of a choice. That's my understanding anyway.
Randy

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by munemaker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:27 pm

EyeDee wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 am
.
I believe how much the cost sharing reduction subsides (CSRs) are spread if they are not paid by the federal government depends upon the state. In some states the increase is being restricted to silver plans on the exchanges which would mean the increase is covered by increased subsides for the premiums for those plans.

In California for example I believe I read the silver plans off the exchanges and bronze/gold/platinum on and off the exchanges would not have their premiums increased to cover cost sharing subsidies. I believe I read Indiana is allowing the costs to be spread more, but I am not sure if that was only to non-silver plans on the exchanges or if it extended to plans off the exchanges.
munemaker wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 am
denovo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am
It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies
That's not how it works. Those getting subsidies are getting funded by the the revenue raisers in the ACA. Your premium isn't being diverted to those getting subsidies.
That is true for the premium subsidies (<400% of federal poverty level), but perhaps not for cost sharing reductions received by those with very low incomes (<250% of federal poverty level). If the government chooses not fund the CSRs, insurance companies will pass that cost on to the premiums of those insured who are not subsidized. They really do not have much of a choice. That's my understanding anyway.
Thanks for the clarification.

DavidRoseMountain
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by DavidRoseMountain » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:51 pm

EyeDee wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 am
.
I believe how much the cost sharing reduction subsides (CSRs) are spread if they are not paid by the federal government depends upon the state. In some states the increase is being restricted to silver plans on the exchanges which would mean the increase is covered by increased subsides for the premiums for those plans.

In California for example I believe I read the silver plans off the exchanges and bronze/gold/platinum on and off the exchanges would not have their premiums increased to cover cost sharing subsidies. I believe I read Indiana is allowing the costs to be spread more, but I am not sure if that was only to non-silver plans on the exchanges or if it extended to plans off the exchanges.
munemaker wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 am
denovo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am
It is definitely the unaffordable act for all those paying full fare and absorbing the increases for those getting subsidies
That's not how it works. Those getting subsidies are getting funded by the the revenue raisers in the ACA. Your premium isn't being diverted to those getting subsidies.
That is true for the premium subsidies (<400% of federal poverty level), but perhaps not for cost sharing reductions received by those with very low incomes (<250% of federal poverty level). If the government chooses not fund the CSRs, insurance companies will pass that cost on to the premiums of those insured who are not subsidized. They really do not have much of a choice. That's my understanding anyway.
While this may be true, it wasn't how the ACA law was supposed to work. Cost sharing reductions for low income (between 125% - 250% of federal poverty limit) was supposed to be provided by the federal government to the insurance companies. Moreover, there was supposed to be federal support to help insurance companies that found that they were not profitable because the patients were sicker and needed more medical care. This help to insurance companies was designed to keep the market attractive and encourage enough insurance companies to participate and facilitate competition so that premiums wouldn't be too expensive.

furwut
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by furwut » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:43 am

Back to ‘2018 ACA costs arrived’

The breaking news that this administration will no longer make CSR payments to insurers, coming just 3 weeks before open enrollment, throws everything back into uncertainty.

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nedsaid
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by nedsaid » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:58 am

My premiums are up 12% to 15%. I am not happy.
A fool and his money are good for business.

ERISA Stone
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by ERISA Stone » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am

southerndoc wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:47 am
I can't get individual insurance next year unless I go with Kaiser. Kaiser isn't that great in Georgia (not contracted with many hospitals). Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Humana, Aetna, and United all exited the individual market. A ton of small business owners and independent contractors will have only a single choice (Kaiser) unless they join PEO/ASO's.
I'm in GA I've had KP for 4 years, I think. They're not terrible, not great. My biggest issue is I've had a few major health issues the last year or so, and KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case. I ended up paying for the second opinions out of pocket at out-of-network providers. And one time I had to wait 3 months for a cortisone shot for a herniated disc in my back from their "pain management" unit. Other than those two issues I've gotten great service.

ERISA Stone
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by ERISA Stone » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:38 am

nedsaid wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:58 am
My premiums are up 12% to 15%. I am not happy.
Serious question - don't your premiums always increase by 10-15% year over year? This has been my experience my entire working life.

Valuethinker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:54 am

https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-ri ... ts-4064878

chart at the end shows US healthcare costs rise (table goes back to 1965
Yr $bn Chnge pc Events
1960 $27.2 NA $146 Recession
1961 $29.1 7.1% $154 Recession ended
1962 $31.8 9.3% $166
1963 $34.6 8.6% $178
1964 $38.4 11% $194 LBJ started Medicare and Medicaid
1965 $41.9 9% $209
1966 $46.1 10.1% $228 Vietnam War
1967 $51.6 11.9% $253
1968 $58.4 13.3% $284
1969 $65.9 12.9% $318
1970 $74.6 13.1% $355 Recession
1971 $82.7 11% $389 Wage-price controls
1972 $92.7 12% $431 Stagflation
1973 $102.8 11% $474 Gold standard ended. HMO Act
1974 $116.5 13.4% $534 ERISA. Wage-price controls ended.
1975 $133.3 14.4% $605 Inflation at 6.9%
1976 $152.7 14.6% $688 Inflation at 4.9%
1977 $173.9 13.8% $777 Inflation at 6.7%
1978 $195.3 12.4% $865 Inflation at 9.0%
1979 $221.5 13.4% $971 Inflation at 13.3%
1980 $255.3 15.3% $1,108 Inflation at 12.5%
1981 $296.2 16% $1,273 Fed raised rates
1982 $334.0 12.8% $1,422 Recession ended
1983 $367.8 10.1% $1,550 Tax hike and defense spending
1984 $405.0 10.1% $1,692
1985 $442.9 9.4% $1,833
1986 $474.7 7.2% $1,947 Tax cut
1987 $516.5 8.8% $2,099 Black Monday
1988 $579.3 12.2% $2,332 Fed raised rate
1989 $644.8 11.3% $2,571 S&L crisis
1990 $721.4 11.9% $2,843 Recession
1991 $788.1 9.2% $3,070 Recession
1992 $854.1 8.4% $3,287
1993 $916.6 7.3% $3,487 HMOs
1994 $967.2 5.5% $3,641
1995 $1,021.6 5.6% $3,806 Fed raised rate
1996 $1,074.4 5.2% $3,964 Welfare reform
1997 $1,135.5 5.7% $4,147 Balanced Budget Act
1998 $1,202.0 5.8% $4,345 LTCM crisis
1999 $1,278.3 6.4% $4,576 BBRA
2000 $1,369.7 7.1% $4,857 BIPA
2001 $1,486.8 8.5% $5,220 9/11 attacks
2002 $1,629.2 9.6% $5,668 War on Terror
2003 $1,768.2 8.5% $6,098 Medicare Modernization Act
2004 $1,896.3 7.2% $6,481
2005 $2,024.2 6.7% $6,855 Bankruptcy Act
2006 $2,156.5 6.5% $7,233
2007 $2,295.7 6.5% $7,628
2008 $2,399.1 4.5% $7,897 Recession slowed spending.
2009 $2,494.7 4.0% $8,141
2010 $2,596.4 4.1% $8,404 ACA signed.
2011 $2,687.9 3.5% $8,638 Debt crisis
2012 $2,795.4 4.0% $8,915 Fiscal cliff
2013 $2,877.6 2.9% $9,110 ACA taxes
2014 $3,029.3 5.3% $9,515 Exchanges opened.
2015 $3,205.6 5.8% $9,990

Valuethinker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:07 am

Figure 1.10
Average Annual Premiums for Single and Family Coverage, 1999-2017

Single Coverage Family Coverage
1999 $2,196 $5,791
2000 $2,471* $6,438*
2001 $2,689* $7,061*
2002 $3,083* $8,003*
2003 $3,383* $9,068*
2004 $3,695* $9,950*
2005 $4,024* $10,880*
2006 $4,242* $11,480*
2007 $4,479* $12,106*
2008 $4,704* $12,680*
2009 $4,824 $13,375*
2010 $5,049* $13,770*
2011 $5,429* $15,073*
2012 $5,615* $15,745*
2013 $5,884* $16,351*
2014 $6,025 $16,834*
2015 $6,251* $17,545*
2016 $6,435 $18,142*
2017 $6,690* $18,764*
* Estimate is statistically different from estimate for the previous year shown (p < .05).
SOURCE: Kaiser/HRET Survey of Employer-Sponsored Health Benefits, 1999-2017

https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs ... insurance/

https://www.kff.org/interactive/premium ... ributions/

Da5id
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Da5id » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:15 am

My work coverage has generally gone up a fair bit less than 10% per year. But that is for premiums. It really is hard to compare year to year as the plans often change some. And there are subtle losses, like we get some fixed amount of money put in our HSAs. But the amount hasn't changed in years, so its value has fallen as medical costs have risen...

Tanelorn
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Tanelorn » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:07 am
2013 $5,884* $16,351*
2014 $6,025 $16,834*
2015 $6,251* $17,545*
2016 $6,435 $18,142*
Your quoting average health insurance costs through an employer. For the 2013-2016 period, the total increase for either individual or family shown above is 10% in total (not per year). In contrast, the unsubsidized individual market has seen skyrocketing costs under Obamacare, increasing 100%+ in just 4 years.

https://news.ehealthinsurance.com/news/ ... pping-data
In 2013, the year before major Obamacare provisions came into effect, the average family’s premium was $426 per month
Between the end of 2013 and the first two months of the 2017 open enrollment period, average family premiums have increased 140%
Between 2013 and the first two months of the 2017 open enrollment period, average individual premiums have increased 99%

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:13 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am
southerndoc wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:47 am
I can't get individual insurance next year unless I go with Kaiser. Kaiser isn't that great in Georgia (not contracted with many hospitals). Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Humana, Aetna, and United all exited the individual market. A ton of small business owners and independent contractors will have only a single choice (Kaiser) unless they join PEO/ASO's.
I'm in GA I've had KP for 4 years, I think. They're not terrible, not great. My biggest issue is I've had a few major health issues the last year or so, and KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case. I ended up paying for the second opinions out of pocket at out-of-network providers. And one time I had to wait 3 months for a cortisone shot for a herniated disc in my back from their "pain management" unit. Other than those two issues I've gotten great service.
In our years with Kaiser, we have not had the need or desire for a "second opinion". Without going into the medical details, I might want one soon. To a degree (not sure how much), as I perceive and experience it, the Kaiser system may have a sort of second opinion process built in. It is common for me that my Primary care Physician consults various specialists on several kinds of issues.

HoosierJim
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by HoosierJim » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:28 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am
KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case.
Assuming Jeopardy facts check their questions - this week - one of the answers was "second opinion" - the question was related to "Approx 1/3 of these result in alternate courses of treatment".

Probably worth paying for the second opinion yourself - ifthe treatment is toxic, quality of life effecting, and/or potentially life saving - see ... only 12 percent receive confirmation that the original diagnosis was complete and correct...

ERISA Stone
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by ERISA Stone » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:44 pm

HoosierJim wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:28 pm
ERISA Stone wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am
KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case.
Assuming Jeopardy facts check their questions - this week - one of the answers was "second opinion" - the question was related to "Approx 1/3 of these result in alternate courses of treatment".

Probably worth paying for the second opinion yourself - ifthe treatment is toxic, quality of life effecting, and/or potentially life saving - see ... only 12 percent receive confirmation that the original diagnosis was complete and correct...
Yep. The first second opinion I got talked me out of back surgery. His staff was able to recognize an issue that no one else could figure out for two years. his physical therapist corrected the issue in 3 months of therapy. I paid for everything out of pocket but it was well worth it to avoid surgery.

madbrain
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by madbrain » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:02 pm

Tanelorn wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:06 pm
Your quoting average health insurance costs through an employer. For the 2013-2016 period, the total increase for either individual or family shown above is 10% in total (not per year). In contrast, the unsubsidized individual market has seen skyrocketing costs under Obamacare, increasing 100%+ in just 4 years.
100% ? That is simply not correct. It's been more like 1-2% a year for unsubsidized individual / family Kaiser plans in California. I haven't looked at 2018 numbers yet. I look at them for purpose of retirement planning, still on employer insurance for now.

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:02 pm

HoosierJim wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:28 pm
ERISA Stone wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am
KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case.
Assuming Jeopardy facts check their questions - this week - one of the answers was "second opinion" - the question was related to "Approx 1/3 of these result in alternate courses of treatment".

Probably worth paying for the second opinion yourself - ifthe treatment is toxic, quality of life effecting, and/or potentially life saving - see ... only 12 percent receive confirmation that the original diagnosis was complete and correct...
Wow - only 12%...

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dm200
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by dm200 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:14 pm

and KP wouldn't pay for a second opinion in either case.


I won't go into all the medical details, but last year my Kaiser Primary Care Physician (PCP) received a recommendation from a Kaiser Cardiologist (whom I had not seen in person, but where a certain condition went to her for Cardiology evaluation) that I needed regular (1-2 years) CT heart scans. Not wanting to be bombarded by unnecessary radiation, I pushed back. After a (no charge) telephone appointment with my PCP, we decided that she would authorize a referral to another Kaiser Cardiologist (in person). Then, I became his patient and the CT scan could be overridden. It worked, no regular CT scans - and all inside Kaiser. All it cost me was a $45 specialist copay.

It is not uncommon for me to "push back" at some of the recommendations of my Kaiser Primary Care Physician or Kaiser specialists.

To use an analogy - "When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras" [Unless you are at the zoo or in Africa]. In my opinion and experience, it seems to me that the American medical "system" spends billions looking for "zebras".

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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by michaeljc70 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:27 pm

hicabob wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:40 am
I just received my 2018 cost estimates from Kaiser. For an unsubsidized bronze HSA plan - single male 61yo the insurance will be $700.42/month which is a 9.4% increase.
Not too bad I suppose. Anyone else have a data point?
Not yet. I know my insurance company is not offering individual plans in 2018. I guess I'll have to wait until 11/1 to see what else there is. I read 5%-43% increases here. Pretty wide range.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by munemaker » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:19 pm

DavidRoseMountain wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:51 pm
Cost sharing reductions for low income (between 125% - 250% of federal poverty limit) was supposed to be provided by the federal government to the insurance companies.
Depends on who you listen to. The judicial branch has ruled that reimbursement of these cost sharing reductions was not part of the ObamaCare legislation. This was apparently just made up by the executive branch to make the system work smoother.

I am on ObamaCare and will be under the 250% number for 2018, so believe me, I wish it was so.

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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by rrppve » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am

Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!!! No BS. :oops:
Supposedly if I buy off exchange, I may not be hit by the surcharge for lack of CSR, but the off exchange rates are not yet available.
I'm searching any and all options for health care now as paying $30k in premiums for a family of 3 just seems outrageous. Wish I could buy a super high deductible catastrophic plan for cheap and have a budget of $20k for health care, I'd come out way ahead. I've been a big fan of the ACA, but it is being totally crippled and is now really working against my financial health.

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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by munemaker » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:14 am

rrppve wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am
Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!
How did you find this out? Here in PA, we don't know our 2018 rates yet.
Wish I could buy a super high deductible catastrophic plan for cheap and have a budget of $20k for health care, I'd come out way ahead.
Isn't a "bronze plan" what you describe?

michaeljc70
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:26 am

rrppve wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am
Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!!!
This happened on Thursday. How can you possibly have new premiums to reflect that on Friday?

madbrain
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by madbrain » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:08 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:26 am
rrppve wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am
Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!!!
This happened on Thursday. How can you possibly have new premiums to reflect that on Friday?
My understanding is because the cost sharing reductions payments were "up in the air" for a while (months) due to the stance of the current administration, many insurance companies pre-emptively raised their overall premiums due to the uncertainty. I believe it's too late for them to change their 2018 premiums now. Companies that didn't raise them will have to eat it up as a loss. This is definitely a case of the ACA being sabotaged.

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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by madbrain » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:10 am

munemaker wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:14 am
Wish I could buy a super high deductible catastrophic plan for cheap and have a budget of $20k for health care, I'd come out way ahead.
Isn't a "bronze plan" what you describe?
A bronze plan covers all medical conditions, including chronic conditions, so it's still far better than a plan strictly for catastrophic illnesses. Those catastrophic plans in the past have not just had super high deductibles, but also limited benefits - things like maximum dollar benefit amounts per year, per lifetime, not covering certain conditions or prescriptions - all of which are now forbidden under ACA.

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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:31 am

rrppve wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am
Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!!! No BS. :oops:
Supposedly if I buy off exchange, I may not be hit by the surcharge for lack of CSR, but the off exchange rates are not yet available.
I'm searching any and all options for health care now as paying $30k in premiums for a family of 3 just seems outrageous. Wish I could buy a super high deductible catastrophic plan for cheap and have a budget of $20k for health care, I'd come out way ahead. I've been a big fan of the ACA, but it is being totally crippled and is now really working against my financial health.
Some other options to investigate:

1) Look at short term insurance which can be purchased up to a year at the time with the new EO. These plans are non-ACA compliant, but probably there will be no tax penalty with the guidance under the new EO.
2) See if you can join some trade association's plan. Might only be available earliest from 2019.
3) Reduce your income to at least get below 400% FPL.
4) Go naked without insurance.

I plan to work on 3) once the rates in my state are finalized. The last I read, the rate hike proposed by my insurer is 57%.
My signature has been deleted.

Bigbonds
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Bigbonds » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:07 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:31 am
rrppve wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 am
Well with the elimination of the CSRs by the Feds, my unsubsidized Blue Shield Silver PPO plan in California is going up a full 50%!!! No BS. :oops:
Supposedly if I buy off exchange, I may not be hit by the surcharge for lack of CSR, but the off exchange rates are not yet available.
I'm searching any and all options for health care now as paying $30k in premiums for a family of 3 just seems outrageous. Wish I could buy a super high deductible catastrophic plan for cheap and have a budget of $20k for health care, I'd come out way ahead. I've been a big fan of the ACA, but it is being totally crippled and is now really working against my financial health.
Some other options to investigate:

1) Look at short term insurance which can be purchased up to a year at the time with the new EO. These plans are non-ACA compliant, but probably there will be no tax penalty with the guidance under the new EO.
2) See if you can join some trade association's plan. Might only be available earliest from 2019.
3) Reduce your income to at least get below 400% FPL.
4) Go naked without insurance.

I plan to work on 3) once the rates in my state are finalized. The last I read, the rate hike proposed by my insurer is 57%.
5.) Pray you or your wife and kids don't come down with some condition that isn't covered by the new EO's such as
leukemia, as this will likely send you to bankruptcy court and wreck your finances and hopes of retirement :)

BarbK
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by BarbK » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:13 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:31 am
Some other options to investigate:

1) Look at short term insurance which can be purchased up to a year at the time with the new EO. These plans are non-ACA compliant, but probably there will be no tax penalty with the guidance under the new EO.
2) See if you can join some trade association's plan. Might only be available earliest from 2019.
3) Reduce your income to at least get below 400% FPL.
4) Go naked without insurance.

I plan to work on 3) once the rates in my state are finalized. The last I read, the rate hike proposed by my insurer is 57%.
I just checked and the only plan in my area that has 2018 prices is B/C B/S - Florida Blue. This is what we currently have now for insurance. Their 2018 Bronze plan price has not changed since Thursday; it is still up 18%.

For option #3: Early retirees; no subsidy so far but a possibility for 2018. Have been doing $75K Roth conversions per year and staying in the 15% tax bracket. Unless my thinking is off, these Roth conversions are worth $7.5K saved in future taxes from RMDs (assuming tax rate stays the same). $75K*15% vs $75K*25%

Checked the possible 2018 subsidy and since it is just my husband getting insurance, the subsidy was between $2K-$3K. Seems we're better off with the Roth conversions.

For option #1: Also got some quotes on the short term policies and cheap, cheap..... <$300 per month. Of course they are quoted for just 3 months at a time.

Bigbonds
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Re: 2018 ACA costs arrived

Post by Bigbonds » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:18 am

munemaker wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:19 pm
DavidRoseMountain wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:51 pm
Cost sharing reductions for low income (between 125% - 250% of federal poverty limit) was supposed to be provided by the federal government to the insurance companies.
Depends on who you listen to. The judicial branch has ruled that reimbursement of these cost sharing reductions was not part of the ObamaCare legislation. This was apparently just made up by the executive branch to make the system work smoother.

I am on ObamaCare and will be under the 250% number for 2018, so believe me, I wish it was so.
It's not going to have an affect on people who receive subsidies. You are limited in the amount they can charge you, say 10% of your income for example. The people who are going to feel the pain on this one are the ones who don't receive subsidies and therefore are not limited to a percentage of their income in how much they can be charged. If this doesn't encourage people to pay off their houses and become minimalist I don't know what will.

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