Lively HSA offers first dollar investing

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aristotelian
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

I asked Lively about retention incentives and account closure fees. Here is what I received:

Glad to hear you have been happy so far! We have no plans to lower fees or offer retention incentives at this time. That said, there are more investment options through TD Ameritrade and we also do not require that you maintain an minimum balance with us, which is different than most other HSA providers.

There are no account closure fees on our end if you.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:44 am I asked Lively about retention incentives and account closure fees. Here is what I received:

Glad to hear you have been happy so far! We have no plans to lower fees or offer retention incentives at this time. That said, there are more investment options through TD Ameritrade and we also do not require that you maintain an minimum balance with us, which is different than most other HSA providers.

There are no account closure fees on our end if you.
Did they clarify the $25 closing fee (in the first year) on page 15 of the agreement by Choice Financials?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

From terran's post in the Fidelity HSA thread
terran wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:13 pm
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:39 pm
aristotelian wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:22 pm I emailed Lively to see if they will match Fidelity and they said no, fees are still in effect, no retention incentives. Looks like I will be heading to Fidelity...
Someone mentioned a Lively $25 early termination fee by Choice Financial Bank within 12 months ...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=228522&newpost=4214 ... d#p3982033
Looks like you're right. Here's the Choice Financial Terms & Conditions found via the documents link in the Lively account page dropdown, page 15 of which says:
Effect of closing an account – If you close your account before interest is paid; you will not receive the accrued interest. An early closure fee of $25 will be assessed if your account is closed in the first 12 months.
Thanks for pointing that out. That's pretty underhanded if you ask me given that right at the top of https://livelyme.com/pricing/ it says "Lively's pricing is simple and affordable. Never be surprised by hidden fees." and there's no mention of this early termination fee anywhere on that page. I'm tempted to transfer all but a very small amount and then remove that at the end of 12 months just out of spite.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

indexfundfan wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:47 am
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:44 am I asked Lively about retention incentives and account closure fees. Here is what I received:

Glad to hear you have been happy so far! We have no plans to lower fees or offer retention incentives at this time. That said, there are more investment options through TD Ameritrade and we also do not require that you maintain an minimum balance with us, which is different than most other HSA providers.

There are no account closure fees on our end if you.
Did they clarify the $25 closing fee (in the first year) on page 15 of the agreement by Choice Financials?
No clarification, what I quoted (including the incomplete sentence) is all I got back. I opened my account in January so I will probably wait until February to close just to be safe.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

For those contemplating switching from Lively to Fidelity, I received an email back from TD Ameritrade indicating a $50 fee for in-kind account transfer. No charge to transfer if you liquidate the cash first.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:01 pm For those contemplating switching from Lively to Fidelity, I received an email back from TD Ameritrade indicating a $50 fee for in-kind account transfer. No charge to transfer if you liquidate the cash first.
:annoyed I will certainly take that up with Lively when I inevitably receive the same email. I will ask to be reimbursed due to their representation that would be no transfer fees.

I don't actually have $50 in cash in my TD Ameritrade account. I only have $9.99. How would they collect? Will they force me to sell a share of an ETF?

Either way, $50 is cheap for piece of mind on transferring a $50K account. That's 0.10%. How many days would I be out of the market if I had to liquidate and transfer.

Also, did you ask TD Ameritrade? Or did they email you after you initiated a transfer? I just initiated a transfer without asking. It didn't even occur to me to check, given Lively's representations. And I guess when we left TD Ameritrade for Vanguard a few years ago, we were Apex, so it never came up.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

jhfenton wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:43 pm
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:01 pm For those contemplating switching from Lively to Fidelity, I received an email back from TD Ameritrade indicating a $50 fee for in-kind account transfer. No charge to transfer if you liquidate the cash first.
:annoyed I will certainly take that up with Lively when I inevitably receive the same email. I will ask to be reimbursed due to their representation that would be no transfer fees.

I don't actually have $50 in cash in my TD Ameritrade account. I only have $9.99. How would they collect? Will they force me to sell a share of an ETF?

Either way, $50 is cheap for piece of mind on transferring a $50K account. That's 0.10%. How many days would I be out of the market if I had to liquidate and transfer.

Also, did you ask TD Ameritrade? Or did they email you after you initiated a transfer? I just initiated a transfer without asking. It didn't even occur to me to check, given Lively's representations. And I guess when we left TD Ameritrade for Vanguard a few years ago, we were Apex, so it never came up.
I don't think it's is Lively's fault per se. They only run the HSA side. I probably did not read the fine print as closely as I should have. At the time, I thought Lively was the best deal and had no plans to ever switch.

I can't be sure how TD will handle it, but I would guess they will liquidate a share of something and deduct $50 from the account.

My HSA is only $10K, so $50 is a bit of a bigger deal to me (although if push comes to shove, I will mentally deduct it from the $300 bonus I got from TD for transferring my IRA).
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 pm I don't think it's is Lively's fault per se. They only run the HSA side. I probably did not read the fine print as closely as I should have. At the time, I thought Lively was the best deal and had no plans to ever switch.
Same for me. I do feel bad for the founders. They put a lot of work into getting it started, went through two rounds of VC funding--the second last month--and now a big boy decides to outflank them.
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 pm I can't be sure how TD will handle it, but I would guess they will liquidate a share of something and deduct $50 from the account.

My HSA is only $10K, so $50 is a bit of a bigger deal to me (although if push comes to shove, I will mentally deduct it from the $300 bonus I got from TD for transferring my IRA).
Speaking of bonuses, that refreshed my recollection. We moved all of our accounts to Vanguard in October 2015. Earlier that summer, my wife had switched jobs and we had rolled her 401(k) into an IRA at TD Ameritrade and received a $300 bonus.

When I did in-kind transfers of all our accounts to Vanguard--I had forgotten about the bonus--they were entitled to recoup the bonus, but rather than liquidate something they only kept the few odd dollars of cash we had in the account.

So maybe they'll just keep my $9.99 and transfer the rest. I could live with that. :beer
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by DippityDoo »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:01 am I opened my account in January so I will probably wait until February to close just to be safe.
Are you going to transfer anything before you close the Lively account? I think I have 5 more months to reach the one year mark at Lively. I'm going to transfer a few bucks from TDA to Lively and then sell everything in the TDA account and transfer the cash to Fido. If I'm understanding what I'm reading on this thread, that should allow me to transfer most of the account to Fido without the $75 in fees ($50 from TDA and $25 from Lively).

I really appreciate the information you guys posted here. THANKS!
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 pm
jhfenton wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:43 pm I don't actually have $50 in cash in my TD Ameritrade account. I only have $9.99. How would they collect? Will they force me to sell a share of an ETF?
I can't be sure how TD will handle it, but I would guess they will liquidate a share of something and deduct $50 from the account.
When I transferred in-kind from my old HSA Bank/TDA account to my new Lively/TDA account I was not charged a transfer fee or an account closing fee for the HSA Bank-linked TDA account.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

DippityDoo wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:01 am I opened my account in January so I will probably wait until February to close just to be safe.
Are you going to transfer anything before you close the Lively account? I think I have 5 more months to reach the one year mark at Lively. I'm going to transfer a few bucks from TDA to Lively and then sell everything in the TDA account and transfer the cash to Fido. If I'm understanding what I'm reading on this thread, that should allow me to transfer most of the account to Fido without the $75 in fees ($50 from TDA and $25 from Lively).

I really appreciate the information you guys posted here. THANKS!
I was planning on just leaving the savings account with a zero balance. I always keep a zero balance on the Lively side anyway. You are right, I should probably transfer a few bucks in there to be safe.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by grp2c »

I started the transfer of assets process at fidelity from my Lively/TD ameritrade HSA account. I plugged in the TD ameritrade account number (not Lively) and requested assets be moved in-kind.

I noticed that the TD statement says

LIVELY INC TR
LIVELYHSA
FBO "My name"

I wonder if they will block the transfer because the account is not actually held in my name.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder »

grp2c wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:54 pm I started the transfer of assets process at fidelity from my Lively/TD ameritrade HSA account. I plugged in the TD ameritrade account number (not Lively) and requested assets be moved in-kind.

I noticed that the TD statement says

LIVELY INC TR
LIVELYHSA
FBO "My name"

I wonder if they will block the transfer because the account is not actually held in my name.
No, that's just to mark it as a custodial account (i.e., linked to a tax-advantaged account, an HSA in this case) as opposed to a taxable account you opened on your own. I believe it's just that the record keeping requirements are different but that won't affect your transfer.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MikeG62 »

aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:04 pm
DippityDoo wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:01 am I opened my account in January so I will probably wait until February to close just to be safe.
Are you going to transfer anything before you close the Lively account? I think I have 5 more months to reach the one year mark at Lively. I'm going to transfer a few bucks from TDA to Lively and then sell everything in the TDA account and transfer the cash to Fido. If I'm understanding what I'm reading on this thread, that should allow me to transfer most of the account to Fido without the $75 in fees ($50 from TDA and $25 from Lively).

I really appreciate the information you guys posted here. THANKS!
I was planning on just leaving the savings account with a zero balance. I always keep a zero balance on the Lively side anyway. You are right, I should probably transfer a few bucks in there to be safe.
My Lively account was opened in April of 2018 and has a balance of $0.05. The rest of the funds are invested with TDA.

Seems to me that I can avoid any fees (other than transaction fees) by:

1. Selling the investments on the TDA side and sweeping the full cash balance (on settlement date) to a newly opened Fidelity HSA (initiating the pull from Fidelity).
2. Then close the TDA account.
3. Leave the Lively account exactly as is until I cross the 12 month mark at which time I can call Lively and tell them I'd like to close my Lively account. They can keep the $0.05 for all I am concerned as long as they don't bang me for $25.

I see nothing on the Lively website which indicates one needs to maintain a minimum balance so this would seem to be one way to move the funds to Fidelity without incurring any fees (other than transaction fees).
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

MikeG62 wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:08 am My Lively account was opened in April of 2018 and has a balance of $0.05. The rest of the funds are invested with TDA.

Seems to me that I can avoid any fees (other than transaction fees) by:

1. Selling the investments on the TDA side and sweeping the full cash balance (on settlement date) to a newly opened Fidelity HSA (initiating the pull from Fidelity).
2. Then close the TDA account.
3. Leave the Lively account exactly as is until I cross the 12 month mark at which time I can call Lively and tell them I'd like to close my Lively account. They can keep the $0.05 for all I am concerned as long as they don't bang me for $25.

I see nothing on the Lively website which indicates one needs to maintain a minimum balance so this would seem to be one way to move the funds to Fidelity without incurring any fees (other than transaction fees).
The above might work, assuming TDA let's you

a) transfer out directly without going through Lively, and
b) does not charge you the full transfer fee (TDA might not since this is in cash)

My account will reach the one-year mark in Jan 2019. I will probably wait until then before attempting anything (unless the above works). My account is currently small (around $10k) and invested in SPDW (EAFE). I will convert it to cash (compensated elsewhere by an opposite switch) at TDA, bring the cash back to Lively/Choice Financial, then request a trustee-to-trustee transfer. (I already did an indirect rollover from Saturna to Lively in May this year so I can't do that until May 2019.) I will just have to pay at most another three months of fees to Lively.

In my mind, I'm still hoping that Vanguard will make a surprise announcement that they are starting individual HSAs before then. LOL.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

TropikThunder wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 pm
jhfenton wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:43 pm I don't actually have $50 in cash in my TD Ameritrade account. I only have $9.99. How would they collect? Will they force me to sell a share of an ETF?
I can't be sure how TD will handle it, but I would guess they will liquidate a share of something and deduct $50 from the account.
When I transferred in-kind from my old HSA Bank/TDA account to my new Lively/TDA account I was not charged a transfer fee or an account closing fee for the HSA Bank-linked TDA account.
That is probably because TDA does not charge for transfers within TDA.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

A thought just came to my mind. Fidelity might reimburse those transfer fees. For maximum leverage, request this from Fidelity before initiating any transfer.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder »

indexfundfan wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:54 am
TropikThunder wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 pm
aristotelian wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 pm
jhfenton wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:43 pm I don't actually have $50 in cash in my TD Ameritrade account. I only have $9.99. How would they collect? Will they force me to sell a share of an ETF?
I can't be sure how TD will handle it, but I would guess they will liquidate a share of something and deduct $50 from the account.
When I transferred in-kind from my old HSA Bank/TDA account to my new Lively/TDA account I was not charged a transfer fee or an account closing fee for the HSA Bank-linked TDA account.
That is probably because TDA does not charge for transfers within TDA.
Oh good point! :P I forgot this series of posts were talking about moving to Fidelity. :oops:
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by grp2c »

Just an update on my transfer. The in kind transfer from TD to fidelity was held up because TD needs a letter of release from lively. This has been requested and once approved I'll need to reinitiate the process on Fidelity's end.

Fidelity said they would reimburse the $50 TD transfer fee.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

grp2c wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:36 pm Just an update on my transfer. The in kind transfer from TD to fidelity was held up because TD needs a letter of release from lively. This has been requested and once approved I'll need to reinitiate the process on Fidelity's end.

Fidelity said they would reimburse the $50 TD transfer fee.
I'm in the middle of the same process. I just requested the letter of release from Lively.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by DippityDoo »

jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:53 pm I'm in the middle of the same process. I just requested the letter of release from Lively.
Are they reimbursing the $50 TDA transfer fee?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

DippityDoo wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:58 pm
jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:53 pm I'm in the middle of the same process. I just requested the letter of release from Lively.
Are they reimbursing the $50 TDA transfer fee?
I didn't ask. When I call Fidelity back to ask them to try the transfer again, I'll ask. I made sure I had no cash in my TD Ameritrade account, so I don't know if they'll charge it or not.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

grp2c wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:36 pm Just an update on my transfer. The in kind transfer from TD to fidelity was held up because TD needs a letter of release from lively. This has been requested and once approved I'll need to reinitiate the process on Fidelity's end.

Fidelity said they would reimburse the $50 TD transfer fee.
Update: Lively sent the LOR to TD Ameritrade. (Lively customer service is always great.) TD Ameritrade confirmed receipt and said that the ACATS is in process. I didn't ask them about a fee. Fidelity ask me to call them back when the LOR was received by TD Ameritrade, so I am about to do that too.

Update: Spoke to Fidelity. The rep was so nice. She is going to monitor and if the assets don't appear to be moving in a few days, she will resubmit the request. She said that they will reimburse any transfer fee. She also said that TD Ameritrade usually transfers with a debit rather than sell any securities.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

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jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:16 pm
grp2c wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:36 pm Just an update on my transfer. The in kind transfer from TD to fidelity was held up because TD needs a letter of release from lively. This has been requested and once approved I'll need to reinitiate the process on Fidelity's end.

Fidelity said they would reimburse the $50 TD transfer fee.
Update: Lively sent the LOR to TD Ameritrade. (Lively customer service is always great.) TD Ameritrade confirmed receipt and said that the ACATS is in process. I didn't ask them about a fee. Fidelity ask me to call them back when the LOR was received by TD Ameritrade, so I am about to do that too.

Update: Spoke to Fidelity. The rep was so nice. She is going to monitor and if the assets don't appear to be moving in a few days, she will resubmit the request. She said that they will reimburse any transfer fee. She also said that TD Ameritrade usually transfers with a debit rather than sell any securities.
That's great! I hope everything works out.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by DippityDoo »

jhfenton wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:16 pm She said that they will reimburse any transfer fee. She also said that TD Ameritrade usually transfers with a debit rather than sell any securities.
Appreciate the update! Thank you.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TenS2XS »

I opened an HSA with Fidelity but haven't funded it yet. During the online process there was no option to designate if I was opening a Family or Individual account. The account type determines the maximum I can contribute for a given year. Getting in contact with their HSA specific support line has been difficult, as might be expected. As retirees, my wife and I are covered under a HDHP offered by my former employer so I plan to have a Family HSA. Anyone know if there are specific account types or if I simply make annual contributions based on the limits for a Family HSA?

Thanks.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

TenS2XS wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:11 am I opened an HSA with Fidelity but haven't funded it yet. During the online process there was no option to designate if I was opening a Family or Individual account. The account type determines the maximum I can contribute for a given year. Getting in contact with their HSA specific support line has been difficult, as might be expected. As retirees, my wife and I are covered under a HDHP offered by my former employer so I plan to have a Family HSA. Anyone know if there are specific account types or if I simply make annual contributions based on the limits for a Family HSA?

Thanks.
An HSA is an HSA. Your HDHP coverage dictates your annual contribution limit, but the account is the same either way. One year you might have self-only coverage, the next year you might have family coverage, the following year self-only again. You could keep the same HSA.

Somewhere in Fidelity's online material I read that Fidelity is not going to police the contribution limit for you. So it's up to you to figure out your limit based on your HDHP coverage.

Catch-up contributions ($1,000, age 55 or over) are personal, so your catch-up has to go into your HSA. Your wife's catch-up would have to go into a separate HSA in her name. The $7,000 (2019) family limit can be split however you want, all in yours, all in hers, 50/50, 79/21, etc.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TenS2XS »

Thanks jhfenton. I did get through to Fidelity this morning and they basically echoed what you stated, that I track it on my own. Since I have a coverage tier of me + 1, I will have a maximum contribution of $7,900 for 2018 (with my $1,000 catch-up) and a maximum of $8,000 for 2019.

We only have a few years where we'll be able to contribute before reaching age 65, but I believe it is worth the effort to get some money into this tax-advantaged account.

Thanks again for your quick response.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

Update: I got a notice from TD Ameritrade that I had a message in my account:
Hi John,

Your account is eligible to transfer out. Please contact the receiving firm to have the transfer started or to review the status of your transfer.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via secure email, or call toll-free at xxx-xxx-xxxx, Monday through Friday, 8am to 7pm Eastern Standard Time (excluding market holidays).

As always, we greatly appreciate your business and thank you for choosing TD Ameritrade.

xxxx
Inst. SDPS Trading, IBS Participant Services
I suspected this was an automatic notice generated as a result of their receiving a Letter of Release from Lively, but I called anyway to confirm that was the case. (It was.) My transfer to Fidelity is in progress.

I also asked about a transfer fee. He confirmed it would be $50 and that since I didn't have any cash, they would send it over with a $50 negative balance. He said the receiving firm will usually credit that. (And Fidelity has said that they will.)
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

Updating my transfer process to Fidelity...I successfully transferred the assets to Fidelity (showing a $50 debit from TD). I requested and received a $50 credit from Fidelity as a "one time exception".

Requested Lively close the investing account, which they appear to have done since I can now no longer access the account when I attempt to log in at TD. Now I get an email stating that there is $50 left in the TD account, so Lively can't close it. Anybody having this issue? Will the $50 eventually go away?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:47 pm Updating my transfer process to Fidelity...I successfully transferred the assets to Fidelity (showing a $50 debit from TD). I requested and received a $50 credit from Fidelity as a "one time exception".

Requested Lively close the investing account, which they appear to have done since I can now no longer access the account when I attempt to log in at TD. Now I get an email stating that there is $50 left in the TD account, so Lively can't close it. Anybody having this issue? Will the $50 eventually go away?
I saw the same orphaned $50 in my TD account this morning as viewed from the Lively site. It showed as available to transfer, so I simply requested a transfer to the Lively account.

I am guessing that when they ACATS transfer the $50 debit to Fidelity, it results in $50 in the TD account which eventually gets erased by a fee. Since you can't see the TD account, you never know about it.

Fidelity reversed my fee too, but they said would in advance and did so. There was never any discussion of it being a favor or an exception.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

Usually for ACAT transfers, the receiving institution can/will do residue sweeps. Maybe this will be swept over to Fidelity on a later date?
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aristotelian
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

jhfenton wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:57 pm
I saw the same orphaned $50 in my TD account this morning as viewed from the Lively site. It showed as available to transfer, so I simply requested a transfer to the Lively account.

I am guessing that when they ACATS transfer the $50 debit to Fidelity, it results in $50 in the TD account which eventually gets erased by a fee. Since you can't see the TD account, you never know about it.

Fidelity reversed my fee too, but they said would in advance and did so. There was never any discussion of it being a favor or an exception.
Just received this back from Lively.


The $50 will be credited to your account and swept to Fidelity in the next 2-3 business days. Once your investment balance in $0 in Lively, please contact us and we ensure that your TD account is closed out.


Not sure what to make of that. Did I just in effect get a $50 bonus from Fidelity? Can I give it back? I guess I will ignore it until next week and see what happens. Unfortunately that probably means Lively will hit me with another $2.50.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:17 pm Not sure what to make of that. Did I just in effect get a $50 bonus from Fidelity? Can I give it back? I guess I will ignore it until next week and see what happens. Unfortunately that probably means Lively will hit me with another $2.50.
Yep. Congrats. I expect I will too. Just think of Fidelity's $50 as a brokerage bonus.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Echohammer419 »

So I'm with HSA bank and am getting tired of the $66/year fee. Left my employer that offered it so I'm trying to decide between Lively and Fidelity. So this is what, a $30 difference/year between the two? I really like my vanguard funds through TDA that I have my HSA in (VB & VXUS) but I'm completely unfamiliar with anything Fidelity offers that comparable performance and ER wise. Is there a chart that shows the comparable ETF's between vanguard and fidelity?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by nalor511 »

Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:38 pm So I'm with HSA bank and am getting tired of the $66/year fee. Left my employer that offered it so I'm trying to decide between Lively and Fidelity. So this is what, a $30 difference/year between the two? I really like my vanguard funds through TDA that I have my HSA in (VB & VXUS) but I'm completely unfamiliar with anything Fidelity offers that comparable performance and ER wise. Is there a chart that shows the comparable ETF's between vanguard and fidelity?
Just use Fidelity's mutual fund and ETF screeners. https://www.fidelity.com/calculators-to ... nvestments , personally I start filtering by expense ratio, but you can select what you want to filter by.
aristotelian
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:38 pm So I'm with HSA bank and am getting tired of the $66/year fee. Left my employer that offered it so I'm trying to decide between Lively and Fidelity. So this is what, a $30 difference/year between the two? I really like my vanguard funds through TDA that I have my HSA in (VB & VXUS) but I'm completely unfamiliar with anything Fidelity offers that comparable performance and ER wise. Is there a chart that shows the comparable ETF's between vanguard and fidelity?
The new Fidelity Zero funds (FZROX for total stock market) are perfect for tax advantaged accounts and literally have zero expense ratio. Fidelity also has a comparison page that looks favorable. https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

Probably not a big enough difference to switch, but if you are switching anyway, I believe Fidelity is hands down the leader right now when it comes to HSA's.
Last edited by aristotelian on Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:38 pm So I'm with HSA bank and am getting tired of the $66/year fee. Left my employer that offered it so I'm trying to decide between Lively and Fidelity. So this is what, a $30 difference/year between the two? I really like my vanguard funds through TDA that I have my HSA in (VB & VXUS) but I'm completely unfamiliar with anything Fidelity offers that comparable performance and ER wise. Is there a chart that shows the comparable ETF's between vanguard and fidelity?
You can continue to use VB & VXUS at Fidelity if you like. That's the nice thing about using ETFs as opposed to mutual funds. But both these ETFs are not in the commission free ETF list of either brokerage.
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Echohammer419
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Echohammer419 »

aristotelian wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:55 pm
Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:38 pm So I'm with HSA bank and am getting tired of the $66/year fee. Left my employer that offered it so I'm trying to decide between Lively and Fidelity. So this is what, a $30 difference/year between the two? I really like my vanguard funds through TDA that I have my HSA in (VB & VXUS) but I'm completely unfamiliar with anything Fidelity offers that comparable performance and ER wise. Is there a chart that shows the comparable ETF's between vanguard and fidelity?
The new Fidelity Zero funds (FZROX for total stock market) are perfect for tax advantaged accounts and literally have zero expense ratio. Fidelity also has a comparison page that looks favorable. https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

Probably not a big enough difference to switch, but if you are switching anyway, I believe Fidelity is hands down the leader right now when it comes to HSA's.
So I'm loving these options. No fee to trade, save the $66/year and 0 ER. So one last question. Is FZROX just as well diversified/well covered across the market as VXUS (and similar with VTI to FZROX)? Can't figure out how to tell that. I also noticed on morningstar's report that neither reports any distributions... is that just an error on morningstar's site or is that the catch since their 0 ER? Or should I look toward a Fidelity VTI/VXUS equivalent that's commission free but with a low ER to covers the market better?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian »

Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:42 pm
So I'm loving these options. No fee to trade, save the $66/year and 0 ER. So one last question. Is FZROX just as well diversified/well covered across the market as VXUS (and similar with VTI to FZROX)? Can't figure out how to tell that. I also noticed on morningstar's report that neither reports any distributions... is that just an error on morningstar's site or is that the catch since their 0 ER? Or should I look toward a Fidelity VTI/VXUS equivalent that's commission free but with a low ER to covers the market better?
Morningstar says 2,527 holdings, so not quite as diversified as VTI. If that bothers you, ITOT would be the other option.

I think the lack of distributions is just because the fund is so new, it hasn't made any yet.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Echohammer419 »

Thanks. And international would be...ixus?

Side note, I created my fidelity hsa account to transfer funds from my TDA account held via HSA bank. Do I need to sell what's in my HSA in order for the funds to transfer or does fidelity take care of all that through the request to transfer form I submitted when I created my hsa account?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MarkerFM »

Echohammer419 wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:57 pm Thanks. And international would be...ixus?

Side note, I created my fidelity hsa account to transfer funds from my TDA account held via HSA bank. Do I need to sell what's in my HSA in order for the funds to transfer or does fidelity take care of all that through the request to transfer form I submitted when I created my hsa account?
If Fidelity can hold the securities you held at TDA, the transfer will be in kind and you will end up with the same holdings at Fidelity. Only minor wrinkle is that partial shares will be converted to cash so that only whole shares transfer.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by ninjab »

anyone have an update on whether lively charged an early account closing fee?
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by deltaneutral83 »

I just got an email from Lively saying they are done with the fees for "individuals and families." It had been $2.50 a month all in no minimums but I guess now that's gone too. Must be responsive to Fido's new HSA pitch.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by wisevermilion »

I also just received the email indicating Lively has eliminated all HSA fees for individuals and families. The email in its entirety is below:
We are proud to announce that today we have eliminated all HSA fees for individuals and families. This includes any fees to access investments in their HSA. This makes Lively a truly no-fee HSA for eligible consumers.

Back in October, we announced our $11M Series A financing. At that time, we promised to invest the time, effort, and resources needed to continue investing in our platform. Our work has led to further automation resulting in cost savings that we’re now passing along to our users.

As you might know, most HSAs come with a laundry list of fees that often include monthly maintenance, account opening, funds transfer, debit cards, excess contributions, point of sale, minimum balance, reimbursement, and account closure. HSA fees directly inhibit a consumer’s ability to reduce out-of-pocket costs and maximize their health savings. Lively has no-fees.

You can read the full press release here for more information.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by crazygrow »

Just got it as well. Great news as I had just sent my money to them right before Fidelity launched. I'd still like to consolidate to Fidelity at some point but now don't have to worry about it.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan »

Wow. Unfortunately I have already transferred out.

PS. I edited the first post to reflect this change.
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Re: Lively HSA offers first dollar investing

Post by AHTFY »

Awesome news about Lively! I switched to Lively just a week or two before the Fidelity news broke and didn't want to go through the hassle of another transfer. Now I don't have to.
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Re: Lively HSA offers first dollar investing

Post by ulladulla28 »

Anyone have any experience with regular recurring trustee transfers to Fidelity from other HSA providers?

I am with Lively, but my employer has another HSA provider with fees and minimums creating a cash drag so I complete regular transfers to Lively.

As much as I appreciate Lively and what they are doing, I am also not a big fan of ETFs, which is about all there is at TDA that fits the Boglehead mantra. So considering a shift to Fidelity...

Lively has been great and I really want to support them, but having access to Fidelity's low-cost mutual funds is a big advantage over TDA so long as the Trustee transfer is a smooth process.
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tenkuky »

wisevermilion wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:10 am I also just received the email indicating Lively has eliminated all HSA fees for individuals and families. The email in its entirety is below:
We are proud to announce that today we have eliminated all HSA fees for individuals and families. This includes any fees to access investments in their HSA. This makes Lively a truly no-fee HSA for eligible consumers.

Back in October, we announced our $11M Series A financing. At that time, we promised to invest the time, effort, and resources needed to continue investing in our platform. Our work has led to further automation resulting in cost savings that we’re now passing along to our users.

As you might know, most HSAs come with a laundry list of fees that often include monthly maintenance, account opening, funds transfer, debit cards, excess contributions, point of sale, minimum balance, reimbursement, and account closure. HSA fees directly inhibit a consumer’s ability to reduce out-of-pocket costs and maximize their health savings. Lively has no-fees.

You can read the full press release here for more information.
What about that account closure fee if Lively account less than 12 months old?
Several boarders talked about that and since I went to Lively in August, I figured to wait till Aug 2019 before transferring to Fido.
I have been advocating my employer to switch to Lively or Fido instead of currrnt HealthEquity.
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