New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

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Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm

I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 pm

Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
It's possible that Lively will go under and that I'll have to move my account to another provider that I won't like as much. That would be an inconvenience, though, not a disaster. My investments are custodied at TD Ameritrade. Any cash in my Lively HSA account (usually zero) is custodied at Choice Financial bank. Lively going under would not put any of my assets at risk.

The worst part of Lively going under would be what it says about the viability of the business model of the low-cost HSA investment provider.

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am

Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
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tenkuky
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tenkuky » Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am
Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
To confirm, did you do from an HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer? Or just an individual contribution to Lively?
I was planning (once I start) to do the employer linked HSA provider distribution to me, I deposit check and simultaneously ACH the same amount from checking to Lively. The Lively rep suggested it is seamless and both send me 5498 so I can handle my taxes. Plus, this way no fees vs. $25 for the transfer way.

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Wed May 16, 2018 11:53 am

tenkuky wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am
indexfundfan wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am
Just completed my latest money transfer from my bank to Lively/TDA. This time it took T+4 days for money to appear in TDA for trading, an improvement of one day from my last transfer.
To confirm, did you do from an HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer? Or just an individual contribution to Lively?
I was planning (once I start) to do the employer linked HSA provider distribution to me, I deposit check and simultaneously ACH the same amount from checking to Lively. The Lively rep suggested it is seamless and both send me 5498 so I can handle my taxes. Plus, this way no fees vs. $25 for the transfer way.
My example was a bank-to-TDA transfer. It is not a trustee-to-trustee direct transfer.

If you are going to deposit the check into your account and ACH the money to Lively, yes, you are going to see the same T+4 days as me before money can be invested at TDA.
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MJR84
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MJR84 » Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 pm
Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
It's possible that Lively will go under and that I'll have to move my account to another provider that I won't like as much. That would be an inconvenience, though, not a disaster. My investments are custodied at TD Ameritrade. Any cash in my Lively HSA account (usually zero) is custodied at Choice Financial bank. Lively going under would not put any of my assets at risk.

The worst part of Lively going under would be what it says about the viability of the business model of the low-cost HSA investment provider.
Naive question: How do we know that, if Lively went out of business, investments made through the Fidelity platform would be safe? It makes perfect sense to me that they would, but (unlike FDIC protections) I don't really understand the mechanics of how a scenario like this would work.

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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by MossySF » Mon May 21, 2018 1:00 am

MJR84 wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm
Naive question: How do we know that, if Lively went out of business, investments made through the Fidelity platform would be safe? It makes perfect sense to me that they would, but (unlike FDIC protections) I don't really understand the mechanics of how a scenario like this would work.
The accounts are under your name so Lively is just an administrator. For them to access your accounts for their own purposes, they'd need to make some type of fraudulent activity -- say example making up some fake medical bills to then use your funds to pay themselves. SIPC exists for this purpose ... you are protected to up to $500K of assets ($250K cash) against fraud/improper comingling/etc in a brokerage account. (It does not protect you against value drops of the underlying assets.)

financeidiot
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by financeidiot » Mon May 21, 2018 8:21 am

Switched to Lively a few months ago. I've since lost my HSA eligibility (new employer has no HSA eligible plans) and they've been extremely helpful in navigating how much I need to withdraw and what the rules would be if I get my eligibility back later this year. Best and fastest service I've ever had from a financial institution. For contrast, my old HSA provider would just send me a link to the IRS website and tell me to figure it out.

captpete
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by captpete » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:00 pm

Hello,

My wife's employer just started offering HSA HDHP and she is to choose her own HSA custodian. I set her up with Lively to find out that they do not receive direct deposits.

Does anyone on here use lively anyway, by taking the contribution to a savings account then contributing from there to the Lively account?

Thanks for any guidance on this

Pete

Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:35 am

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this question: I read somewhere that California now taxes both the HSA contributions AND, earnings when HSA funds are withdrawn to pay qualified expenses. This changes the calculation for me somewhat as I was planning to make the 'once in a lifetime' trustee to trustee transfer from an IRA to fund the HSA. Can anyone confirm or deny the story on California tax on HSA? Our legislators sure make things complicated at every opportunity.

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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:53 am

captpete wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:00 pm
Hello,

My wife's employer just started offering HSA HDHP and she is to choose her own HSA custodian. I set her up with Lively to find out that they do not receive direct deposits.

Does anyone on here use lively anyway, by taking the contribution to a savings account then contributing from there to the Lively account?

Thanks for any guidance on this

Pete
I have direct deposit set up from my employer to Lively.

Before it was set up I did it manually from my employer custodian.

Muse94552
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Muse94552 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 pm

Just now created a Lively account. There IS a $25fee for 'early' account closure if closed within 12months listed in the Choice Bank Terms, approx page 15. Just wanted to give all a heads-up.
Upon application completion, a popup indicated account setup would take 1-2 days. I did not link existing bank account to this HSA, nor roll an existing HSA into this one.

zeugmite
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by zeugmite » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:33 pm

Looks like, business model fears aside, Lively is the hands down winner, provided you like the TDA commission-free ETF's. RE: how they make money, I don't know -- how much is the expense of bookkeeping an HSA really? Sometimes tech is just much cheaper.

zeugmite
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by zeugmite » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:17 am

Muse94552 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 pm
Just now created a Lively account. There IS a $25fee for 'early' account closure if closed within 12months listed in the Choice Bank Terms, approx page 15. Just wanted to give all a heads-up.
Upon application completion, a popup indicated account setup would take 1-2 days. I did not link existing bank account to this HSA, nor roll an existing HSA into this one.
Do the fees start immediately or after money goes in?

ssenneff
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by ssenneff » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.

harvestbook
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by harvestbook » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

TropikThunder
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm

ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.

TropikThunder
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:40 pm

harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
They have a Visa debit card (like most if not all HSA's) so I imagine it would be seamless as long as you have money in the HSA account itself (un-invested).

TIAX
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TIAX » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 pm

harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
Bogleheads don't withdraw money from HSAs.

harvestbook
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by harvestbook » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:13 am

TIAX wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 pm
harvestbook wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm
Has anyone actually withdrawn money from Lively? Say, using your account to pay current medical expenses? Is it a smooth process?

I have only seen posts of people putting money in.
Bogleheads don't withdraw money from HSAs.
Plan B is to die perfectly healthy without ever having touched the HSA, but that sounds like a form of market timing.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

ssenneff
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by ssenneff » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:12 pm

TropikThunder wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm
ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.
I have to admit that I didn't consider the opportunity cost of not investing the $3K. I tend to keep cash large cash balances in accounts that have outgoing expenses, but $3K is more cash than necessary to cover medical expenses. Thanks for pointing that out.

Angst
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Angst » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:30 pm

ssenneff wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:12 pm
TropikThunder wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:25 pm
ssenneff wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Here is a good site to compare HSA's: https://thehsareportcard.com . I'll be rolling over my wife and my HSA's to Avidia Bank. They waive the $2.50/Mo investment fee if the avg monthly balance is greater than $3,000, so I should have no fees at all. A bit weak on investment options, but having VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index) at a 0.04 ER is good enough. There are a couple of other low cost index funds as well. There are other fees like Overdraft ($30) and outgoing rollover ($25), but not concerning to me.
Avidia sounds pretty good, but there's a reason HSA Report Card didn't rank it among their Top 10 HSA's for investors. Many of us (me included) won't accept having to keep $3,000 in the HSA account to avoid the service fee. I'd gladly accept the $2.50 per month fee to allow me to invest 100% of the money (but at least Avidia gives you the choice). I'd like to think I will make more than $30/year off the $3,000 if I invest it.
I have to admit that I didn't consider the opportunity cost of not investing the $3K. I tend to keep cash large cash balances in accounts that have outgoing expenses, but $3K is more cash than necessary to cover medical expenses. Thanks for pointing that out.
You may well need to do this at your stage in life, but be sure you understand that most Bogleheads intentionally do NOT withdraw from their HSA's up front and instead prefer to leave them intact and growing for future use down the road once they're on Medicare. If you haven't already seen it, be sure to read the BH Wiki re: HSA accounts:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Health_ ... _of_pocket

bhough
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by bhough » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Personal experience here regarding something mentioned above about withdrawing from Lively.

I opened an account with them last year after leaving megacorp. I started a small business and wanted to roll over and fund an HSA. My plan with HSA was not to use the money and use it to extend my pre-tax space, like most of you here do.

However, cash flow in the first year of a business is a little "herky-jerky" to say the least. So I found that I had to use it or a credit card earlier this year when the bill came due on braces for one of the little ones. My wife used the debit card function without a hitch. Highly recommend.
b

jacoavlu
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jacoavlu » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am

Just read through the whole thread as Lively seems to be at or near the top of the list for a Boglehead HSA and next year will be first year I’m HSA eligible.

So I plan to fund the account with a max contribution with Jan 2019 payroll. I’m an owner in a small physician practice (so employer and employee).

Do I understand this correctly?:

I will start an account with Lively. And link my personal checking account.

Lively will provide info that provide to my our payroll folks and they setup ability to fund my account through payroll deduction.

I’ll also setup the TDA account. And the $2.50/mo fee typically would be taken from my linked personal account?

Wondering if I could have our business account linked instead... is it kosher to have the fee covered by an employer?

I know I own the account, my employer does not.

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:33 am

jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am
I will start an account with Lively. And link my personal checking account.

Lively will provide info that provide to my our payroll folks and they setup ability to fund my account through payroll deduction.
Yes. Once you set up the Lively account, you can find the ACH/direct deposit information for it in your profile. We gave that information to my wife's employer and they push their HSA contribution to it every paycheck. (My employer will only send contributions to their selected custodian, so I have to do periodic transfers.)
jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am
I’ll also setup the TDA account. And the $2.50/mo fee typically would be taken from my linked personal account?
Yes. I get an email notice from Lively at the beginning of every month that the fee has been processed, and then I see it deducted from my checking.
jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am
Wondering if I could have our business account linked instead... is it kosher to have the fee covered by an employer?
Employers can and often do pay HSA fees.

But I don't know that Lively is set up to manage two linked bank accounts, one for collecting the fee and one for receiving reimbursements or other distributions. Customers typically use the same checking account for both. You can ask Lively customer service. They are very responsive. I've asked for a couple of features that they said they would put on their development roadmap and that they have since rolled out. (I asked for the ability to change my email address online and to request inbound rollovers online--both pretty basic features that were lacking at startup.)

jacoavlu
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jacoavlu » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:59 am

jhfenton wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:33 am


But I don't know that Lively is set up to manage two linked bank accounts, one for collecting the fee and one for receiving reimbursements or other distributions. Customers typically use the same checking account for both. You can ask Lively customer service.
Thanks for the help.

Aside from collecting the $2.50/mo investing fee, in my situation where contribution will be made through payroll, what other purpose is the linked bank account for?

harvestbook
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by harvestbook » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:40 am

bhough wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:32 pm
Personal experience here regarding something mentioned above about withdrawing from Lively.

I opened an account with them last year after leaving megacorp. I started a small business and wanted to roll over and fund an HSA. My plan with HSA was not to use the money and use it to extend my pre-tax space, like most of you here do.

However, cash flow in the first year of a business is a little "herky-jerky" to say the least. So I found that I had to use it or a credit card earlier this year when the bill came due on braces for one of the little ones. My wife used the debit card function without a hitch. Highly recommend.
b
Thanks. Do you have to move the money from investments to a savings account first, or does it draw straight from the invested pool?

Regarding two bank accounts, if employer pays, Lively would still need your account to send distributions (if you choose to reimburse yourself without a debit card.) That's how mine works at Health Savings Administrators (I don't recommend them but they do have a couple of very convenient features.)
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

jacoavlu
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jacoavlu » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:51 am

jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am
Just read through the whole thread as Lively seems to be at or near the top of the list for a Boglehead HSA and next year will be first year I’m HSA eligible.

So I plan to fund the account with a max contribution with Jan 2019 payroll. I’m an owner in a small physician practice (so employer and employee).

Do I understand this correctly?:

I will start an account with Lively. And link my personal checking account.

Lively will provide info that provide to my our payroll folks and they setup ability to fund my account through payroll deduction.

I’ll also setup the TDA account. And the $2.50/mo fee typically would be taken from my linked personal account?

Wondering if I could have our business account linked instead... is it kosher to have the fee covered by an employer?

I know I own the account, my employer does not.
So I chatted with Shobin and it turns out my question is moot. As a >2% owner of the business I am not eligible to make the contributions pretax, through payroll. I will have to make the contribution on an after tax basis, and get the deduction on my return. Not a big deal. And probably makes things easier anyway because I'll just plan to fund it Jan 1 and be done for the year.

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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by sperry8 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am

How easy is it to transfer/switch from HSA Bank to Lively? Anyone gone through the process?
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sperry8
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by sperry8 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:23 am

Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
If you invest all the money via TD Ameritrade - then I'd assume your money would be held by the custodian and if Lively went under you'd still have access to your investments (via a delay while the custodian figures out how to let you access).
Humbling BH contest results: 2017: #516 of 647 | 2016: #121 of 610 | 2015: #18 of 552 | 2014: #225 of 503 | 2013: #383 of 433 | 2012: #366 of 410 | 2011: #113 of 369 | 2010: #53 of 282

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:30 am

jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:59 am
Aside from collecting the $2.50/mo investing fee, in my situation where contribution will be made through payroll, what other purpose is the linked bank account for?
The linked bank account is used for direct contributions, monthly $2.50 fee deductions, and reimbursements.
sperry8 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:23 am
Muse94552 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 pm
I'm enjoying the boglehead discussion about Lively, and have confirmed I am eligible for a one-time transfer from IRA to HSA. But I hesitate- is anyone ELSE worried that Lively will disappear in a couple of years/be sold or actually fail? :oops:
I realize that Lively deposits are theoretically in SPIC or FDIC insured accounts, but only indirectly. Is my concern unwarranted?
If you invest all the money via TD Ameritrade - then I'd assume your money would be held by the custodian and if Lively went under you'd still have access to your investments (via a delay while the custodian figures out how to let you access).
Using a startup does involve heightened business risk. But I agree with sperry8 that the downside would be a matter of inconvenience rather than financial loss. Lively cash deposits are held at Choice Financial Bank and investments are at TD Ameritrade.

Folks moving from HSA Bank with a linked account at TD Ameritrade have done in-kind transfers to a Lively-linked TD Ameritrade account. If Lively ran into financial difficulties, doing the same in the other direction might be a possibility.

In any event, our accounts would be Lively's most valuable asset. They would undoubtedly be "sold" to another custodian as part of the wrap-up plan.
sperry8 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am
How easy is it to transfer/switch from HSA Bank to Lively? Anyone gone through the process?
There have been a few folks make that switch. One or two in this thread, I believe. You can do an in-kind from TD Ameritrade to TD Ameritrade.

Here's one: viewtopic.php?t=228522&start=100#p3591326

dalmatiandan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by dalmatiandan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:58 am

sperry8 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am
How easy is it to transfer/switch from HSA Bank to Lively? Anyone gone through the process?
I actually completed this exact switch in the last two weeks. It was quite easy.

First, I had it planned so that the October fees ($5.50) for HSA Bank would zero out the funds in HSA Bank itself. I then had every penny in my TD Ameritrade account.

I opened a Lively HSA account. It took a day or two to “finalize” including verifying the trial deposits in my linked checking account. As part of the account opening process, I indicated that I had an account at HSA Bank that I would be transferring. I also sent an email to support@lively.com stating the same.

After the account was finalized, I opened a new TD Ameritrade account through the Lively portal.

Lively sent me a secure email with a TD Ameritrade form that I had to fill out, filling in the HSA Bank - TDA acct number and the Lively HSA - TDA account number, and that it should be a full, in-kind transfer.

Everything got moved over pretty quick, in the next couple days. The HSA Bank - TDA account disappeared from my TDA login, so I assume that’s now closed. I believe one of Lively’s questions at the very beginning was “Are you transferring an account, and would you like us to close it?” or something like that.

I called HSA Bank to close my HSA Bank account, and I did it over the phone in a minute. They didn’t even charge me the $25 closing fee since the account was zeroed out, and I wasn’t adding any new money anyway.

My only qualm is that my DRIP from my bond ETF had posted right in the middle of this process, and that minuscule fractional share was the last thing to get moved over from the HSA Bank - TDA account to the new Lively one, and even then, it wasn’t done in-kind. I now have an extra couple bucks in cash in the TDA account because TDA sold the DRIP fractional share but then didn’t / couldn’t buy it back again in the new account.
If you have DRIP activated, maybe consider plannning around the window of when that will go through.

Happy new Lively customer!
Dan

jacoavlu
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jacoavlu » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:31 am

jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:51 am
jacoavlu wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 am
Just read through the whole thread as Lively seems to be at or near the top of the list for a Boglehead HSA and next year will be first year I’m HSA eligible.

So I plan to fund the account with a max contribution with Jan 2019 payroll. I’m an owner in a small physician practice (so employer and employee).

Do I understand this correctly?:

I will start an account with Lively. And link my personal checking account.

Lively will provide info that provide to my our payroll folks and they setup ability to fund my account through payroll deduction.

I’ll also setup the TDA account. And the $2.50/mo fee typically would be taken from my linked personal account?

Wondering if I could have our business account linked instead... is it kosher to have the fee covered by an employer?

I know I own the account, my employer does not.
So I chatted with Shobin and it turns out my question is moot. As a >2% owner of the business I am not eligible to make the contributions pretax, through payroll. I will have to make the contribution on an after tax basis, and get the deduction on my return. Not a big deal. And probably makes things easier anyway because I'll just plan to fund it Jan 1 and be done for the year.
After more reading around HSA contributions, FICA taxes, and S corp ownership only clouded the issue for me, I posted a question over on the WCI forum. To complete the circle and for the benefit of others, I'm quoting spiritrider's clarifying reply below:

from spiritrider:
"Lively is correct that small business owners of pass-thru entities can not receive pre-tax health and welfare benefits. This applies to health insurance premiums and HSA contributions for S-Corp 2% shareholder-employee’s.

However, Lively has made a clear error by omission. You most definitely are able to receive deductions and FICA exemption on these. It just requires s specific detailed process.

1. The S-Corp pays directly or reimburses the health insurance premium and/or makes directly or reimburses the HSA contributions.
2. These after-tax payments are reported on the S-Corp’s Form 1120s Line 7 Officer Compensation.
3. They are also reported on the 2% shareholder-employee’s W-2 Box 1 wages, but NOT Boxes 3 Social Security wages and 5 Medicare wages.
4. The shareholder-employee then reports on their personal Form 1040 the Line 25 HSA deduction and the Line 29 Self-Employed health insurance deduction*.

This effectively makes the health insurance premiums and HSA contributions income and FICA tax exempt.

* You may only take the self-employed health insurance deduction if you are not eligible for a group health insurance plan of you or your spouse’s employer."
Here's a link to the topic for anyone interested: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/forum ... ica-taxes/

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Tamarind
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by Tamarind » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 am

Tamarind wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 6:15 am
Tamarind wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:32 am
tenkuky wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:14 am
Tamarind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:44 pm
I'm about to sign up and try a trustee-to-trustee transfer from HealthEquity. I'm no longer eligible for HSA contributions since my new employer doesn't offer an HDHP, but at least I can get out from under HE's fees and let the balance accumulate. I LOVE that Lively lets you connect a bank account to pay the investment fee, so my money can stay in the HSA. I'll report back how it goes.
Tamarind:
Can you report on your experience?
I want to do this in the future, my employer newly offering HDHP+HealthEquity HSA but I am not a fan of their lack of transparency and fees, and the cash drag of $2000.
Did you incur an issue/fees for low balance etc on the HE end?
How long did it take and what did it cost?
Thanks!
Very easy to initiate from the Lively side (and I received an email saying they have since added rollover initiation as an in-app feature so there's not even a need to send a separate form).

HE has frozen my account but not yet transferred the money out or even sold my investment holdings. I'll update again here if there are any issues or when the transfer starts.
Arghhhh. 3 weeks in to the transfer, HealthEquity sends me a letter saying that they'd love to transfer my holdings but they can't because the funds are still invested. No indication until now that that was the cause of the holdup. Took me 5 minutes to execute the sell order, but I'm sure it'll take days to settle. In the meantime, now I've left my sponsoring employer, HE has started charging me the monthly fee they had been waiving.

I'll call HE today and see if I can move this along.

I've never heard of an investment company that wouldn't just liquidate investments upon request for account closure.
Just realized I never came back to update this. HealthEquity dragged the process out about as long as possible, but I finally got the money posted to Lively on May 21. After that it took less than 48 hours to set up the self-directed account with TDA and get the money invested.

I've been pleased with both Lively and TDA throughout. I don't know if there would have been additional hurdles if I were still eligible to contribute to HSA through an employer and needed to regularly move money out to Lively. But it works well for me for now.

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TenS2XS
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TenS2XS » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks for the update. I'm considering Lively and have to make a decision relatively soon for my 2018 contribution, which will be my first. I only have a few years to make contributions before going on Medicare. I kind of hate the idea of having to open three accounts (Lively, TD Americatrade and Choice Financial) in order to have an HSA. That's my information spread across three more institutions. Hopefully it will be worth it given that I won't be able to get a large amount in the HSA.
Last edited by TenS2XS on Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

international001
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by international001 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm

I plan to leave the contributions on HealthEquity (what my employer provides) and use them for medical payments. But I'll move the big chunk of money to something (like Lively).

Anything wrong with my strategy?

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beyou
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by beyou » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:42 pm

I will consider this for wife's catch up contributions.
Employer provides fee-free banking elsewhere, and similar fee for investments,
but for a spousal catch up need another low cost place to park cash that may actually be used for medical expenses.
This seems a good choice, as does www.firstambank.com
firstambank has more banking features, lively website tells you nothing, just fancy graphics.

FunnelCakeBob
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by FunnelCakeBob » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:55 am

international001 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm
I plan to leave the contributions on HealthEquity (what my employer provides) and use them for medical payments. But I'll move the big chunk of money to something (like Lively).

Anything wrong with my strategy?
Be sure to move that money via direct trustee-to-trustee transfer and not a rollover which you're allowed only once a year. Also check if there's a minimum threshold to keep at H.E. Under my employer's plan, if I leave at least $25, I won't be charged a fee.

aristotelian
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by aristotelian » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:02 am

FunnelCakeBob wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:55 am
international001 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm
I plan to leave the contributions on HealthEquity (what my employer provides) and use them for medical payments. But I'll move the big chunk of money to something (like Lively).

Anything wrong with my strategy?
Be sure to move that money via direct trustee-to-trustee transfer and not a rollover which you're allowed only once a year. Also check if there's a minimum threshold to keep at H.E. Under my employer's plan, if I leave at least $25, I won't be charged a fee.
There may be a transfer fee and he says it's a one time thing, so the rollover route could be a better option. It's not like he will need to do another one before the end of the year.

FunnelCakeBob
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by FunnelCakeBob » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:12 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:02 am

There may be a transfer fee and he says it's a one time thing, so the rollover route could be a better option. It's not like he will need to do another one before the end of the year.
Valid point, though international001 didn't say specifically it's a one-time thing, only that employer contribution will stay with H.E. Our plan with H.E. doesn't charge a transfer fee and I plan to contribute via payroll deduction, then move funds regularly. If he doesn't have ongoing contribution via payroll and plan a one-time large sum transfer, then a rollover will work.

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:00 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:00 pm
Lively, a startup, offers HSA accounts with "first dollar" investing for $2.50/month ($30/year). Investments are held at TD Ameritrade.

https://livelyme.com/individual-and-fam ... es/invest/

I certainly hope to see more competition to drive down the junk fees charged in the current HSA provider market.
Lively did its main Seed Funding round of $4.2 MM a year ago on the day this thread started. Yesterday, Lively closed its Series A funding round for $11 MM.

I'm just a (happy) customer, but I hope they continue to grow. :beer

b0B
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b0B » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:36 am

My employer uses HealthEquity, and I transfer to SelectAccount/HelloFurther. (Haven't been charged a transfer fee, though once HealthEquity tried to close and charge $25 for that, despite instruction to keep open, and employer paying for HealthEquity account. Transfers take many weeks.) I'm fine with SelectAccount/HelloFurther, but checking out Lively HSA. Questions:

How long did transfers take from HealthEquity and SelectAccount/HelloFurther? Was a transfer fee charge (if closing or not closing other account)?

How long does it take to move funds between Lively HSA and the TDA brokerage (in either direction)?

How hard/easy is it to withdraw funds from the HSA for medical expenses? I like to do such a withdrawal once a year in December for that year's medical expenses. With SelectAccount/HelloFurther this is a simple request to ACH the amount I specify to my bank, with no questions asked. However, it's a pain to withdraw funds from HealthEquity HSA for medical expenses, as you have to answer a bunch of questions about what was spent, when, and for who (which is none of the HSA's business, since recordkeeping is between me and the IRS).

Is it true that the only low ER, no fee, investments are a handful of ETFs?

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jhfenton
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by jhfenton » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:29 am

b0B wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:36 am
How long does it take to move funds between Lively HSA and the TDA brokerage (in either direction)?
One day/overnight. If you request a transfer from Lively to TD Ameritrade during business hours, it will be in your TD Ameritrade the next day. I haven't ever done the reverse, but I assume it would be a day as well.
b0B wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:36 am
How hard/easy is it to withdraw funds from the HSA for medical expenses? I like to do such a withdrawal once a year in December for that year's medical expenses. With SelectAccount/HelloFurther this is a simple request to ACH the amount I specify to my bank, with no questions asked. However, it's a pain to withdraw funds from HealthEquity HSA for medical expenses, as you have to answer a bunch of questions about what was spent, when, and for who (which is none of the HSA's business, since recordkeeping is between me and the IRS).
It is entirely online on Lively's website, and it is entirely up to you how much information you provide. You can put in each individual receipt and use their website for tracking, or you can put in one claim and just enter "Various" for providers and don't attach a receipt. As you said, it's just for your record-keeping.

ACH reimbursements are in our bank account in a day or two. (My wife's newish employer deposits a small amount in her Lively HSA every paycheck, and we just reimburse expenses with those. It's too small to be worth investing. My Lively HSA is fully-invested, and I do quarterly or so transfers from my employer's HSA provider.)
b0B wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:36 am
Is it true that the only low ER, no fee, investments are a handful of ETFs?
There are over 300 commission-free ETFs at TD Ameritrade, including a suite of super low-cost core ETFs from S&P. Maybe a few dozen of the 300 are worth considering. Most won't interest a Boglehead.

They also have an old-fashioned commission-free mutual fund line-up, but there's nothing that would interest a Boglehead.

TropikThunder
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:12 pm

I second jfhenton’s responses (except I’ve never made a withdrawal or payment from my HSA at Lively).
b0B wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:36 am
How long did transfers take from HealthEquity and SelectAccount/HelloFurther? Was a transfer fee charge (if closing or not closing other account)?
My employer also uses HealthEquity. It does take a couple weeks to move the money from HE to Lively, but that’s entirely HE’s fault. I have not been charged a transfer fee (I transfer quarterly), however on my first transfer they closed my account despite my explicit instructions not to because I didn’t leave $25 behind. The rep nonchalantly said “oh the account will re-open when we get the next employer contribution” but I had to fight to get the $25 closing fee credited since I was not in fact closing the account.

Another irritation is that once they do process your transfer request, they freeze the account for seven days to allow for “pending charges” and only then cut a check and mail it. Each time I’ve had to contact HE multiple times to get the transfer done. Either they didn’t receive the request from Lively, or it got approved “just this morning” or their payment vendor didn’t generate a check, etc. I hate HealthEquity but my employer uses it so I put up with them just enough to move the money to Lively. Once the money is at Lively, everything’s been great.

b0B
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by b0B » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:19 pm

Thanks for the information.

international001
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by international001 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:43 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:02 am
FunnelCakeBob wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:55 am
international001 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm
I plan to leave the contributions on HealthEquity (what my employer provides) and use them for medical payments. But I'll move the big chunk of money to something (like Lively).

Anything wrong with my strategy?
Be sure to move that money via direct trustee-to-trustee transfer and not a rollover which you're allowed only once a year. Also check if there's a minimum threshold to keep at H.E. Under my employer's plan, if I leave at least $25, I won't be charged a fee.
There may be a transfer fee and he says it's a one time thing, so the rollover route could be a better option. It's not like he will need to do another one before the end of the year.

I want to keep HE for medical uses (maybe 5-10k), Lively or other for investing. So once a year transfer is fine.
What is a trustee-to-trustee transfer?

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:58 pm

It appears Lively could be superseded by Fidelity's new HSA account:

https://www.fidelity.com/go/hsa/why-hsa

See discussion

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661
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TIAX
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by TIAX » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:18 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:58 pm
It appears Lively could be superseded by Fidelity's new HSA account:

https://www.fidelity.com/go/hsa/why-hsa

See discussion

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661
The cited thread mentions maintenance fees but I'm not seeing any on the fidelity page you linked. Will this account have any fees?

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indexfundfan
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:49 pm

TIAX wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:18 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:58 pm
It appears Lively could be superseded by Fidelity's new HSA account:

https://www.fidelity.com/go/hsa/why-hsa

See discussion

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661
The cited thread mentions maintenance fees but I'm not seeing any on the fidelity page you linked. Will this account have any fees?
Most seem to think that the Fidelity HSA has no HSA-specific account fees. But absence of an actual fee schedule, it's hard to know for sure at this point.
My signature has been deleted.

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tfb
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Re: New HSA provider Lively offers investments for $30/yr fee

Post by tfb » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:12 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:49 pm
Most seem to think that the Fidelity HSA has no HSA-specific account fees. But absence of an actual fee schedule, it's hard to know for sure at this point.
The fee schedule: https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060 ... hedule.pdf
The fees described in this document apply to the Fidelity Account,® Non-Prototype Retirement Accounts, Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), and Fidelity Retirement Accounts (including Traditional, Roth, Rollover, SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRAs, and Fidelity Retirement Plans (Keogh and SE 401(k)), and inherited IRAs and inherited Keogh accounts).
If you don't see a fee there, there is no fee.
HSAs

Annual fees For Fidelity HSAs that are opened through, or serviced by, an intermediary, or in connection with your workplace benefits, Fidelity
may deduct:
• an administrative fee of up to $12 per quarter ($48 annually) from your Fidelity HSA, unless it is paid by your employer (may be waived
for households that were established before a certain date and meet certain asset minimums at Fidelity); and
• a Close Account fee of $25 per account.
Note the qualifier. Directly opened retail accounts don't have these two fees.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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