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Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:15 am
by nomas
A number of Bogleheads have recommended placing a security freeze with Innovis in addition to Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.

In regards to a security freeze, the FTC website lists the big three credit reporting companies but not Innovis. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... reeze-faqs

Clark Howard also lists the big three but not Innovis. However, he does suggest to consider freezing your ChexSystems report.
http://clark.com/personal-finance-credi ... haw-guide/

I checked the Innovis website and it states: "CBCInnovis provides credit reports from the Nationwide Consumer Reporting Agencies (NCRAs), Experian®, Equifax® and TransUnion®, to its clients. CBCInnovis' clients are primarily banks, mortgage companies and other lending institutions and have a permissible purpose under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) to obtain credit information for lending purposes. CBCInnovis does not maintain a database of consumer information."

https://www.cbcinnovis.com/consumer-assistance.html

I would prefer to not give out my personal information over the internet (again) to yet another company if it won't really help my financial security. In view of the information noted above, do any Bogleheads strongly recommend freezing the credit report at Innovis?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:14 am
by TdF fan
nomas wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:15 am
I checked the Innovis website and it states: "... CBCInnovis does not maintain a database of consumer information."
I don't understand what they mean by that. Several months ago I ordered my credit report from Innovis and while it only had a few of my accounts (not as complete as the big three), it did have my name, current and former address, SSN and birth date, just like the other big three credit reports did. So to be complete (and since it was free) I placed a freeze with Innovis.
I don't know why someone like Clark Howard wouldn't recommend placing a freeze with Innovis.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:25 am
by JMacDonald

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:42 am
by DaftInvestor
JMacDonald wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:25 am
Here is one view:
https://consumerist.com/2008/10/04/dont ... y-innovis/
Things may have changed in 9 years but in any case - I don't see any harm in having Innovis security freeze your credit.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:43 pm
by gtd98765
I don't know if it's needed but it is quick (one screen of info) and free. I did it for both my wife and myself in less than five minutes.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:23 pm
by nomas
TdF Fan, JMacDonald, DaftInvestor, and gtd98765, thank you for your replies. You've convinced me, I'll go ahead and
place a freeze at Innovis.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:30 pm
by DaftInvestor
nomas wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:23 pm
TdF Fan, JMacDonald, DaftInvestor, and gtd98765, thank you for your replies. You've convinced me, I'll go ahead and
place a freeze at Innovis.
In addition to the big 3 and Innovis - I also went ahead and did Chexsystems:
https://www.chexsystems.com

...as I think at this point I'm done churning credit cards for a while and I'm happy with the banks I have (some banks will use Chexsystems from what I understand) - I figured the pain with having to do a thaw if I do decide to open a new account is greatly outweighed by the risk of someone else using my information which I presume is now out in the wild.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:40 pm
by HIinvestor
I also did security freezes with the big 3 plus Innovis and ChexSystems for H and me. I figure it it's a hassle for me, it should be a bigger hassle for the BADDIES to misuse my info. I want to make us as unattractive targets as possible and hope they will look for easier prey to get real jobs instead.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:31 pm
by VictoriaF
Freezing Innovis is prudent for three reasons:
1. If perpetrators have difficulties with the big three credit reporting agencies, they'll target Innovis
2. Freezing Innovis is free
3. There is no need to unfreeze Innovis when applying for new credit

Victoria

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:09 pm
by student
nomas wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:15 am
I checked the Innovis website and it states: "CBCInnovis provides credit reports from the Nationwide Consumer Reporting Agencies (NCRAs), Experian®, Equifax® and TransUnion®, to its clients. CBCInnovis' clients are primarily banks, mortgage companies and other lending institutions and have a permissible purpose under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) to obtain credit information for lending purposes. CBCInnovis does not maintain a database of consumer information."

https://www.cbcinnovis.com/consumer-assistance.html

I would prefer to not give out my personal information over the internet (again) to yet another company if it won't really help my financial security. In view of the information noted above, do any Bogleheads strongly recommend freezing the credit report at Innovis?
This may be different from

https://www.innovis.com/

This has some info. http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpre ... it-bureau/

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:30 pm
by nomas
I want to thank everyone who replied.

DaftInvestor, I'm going to place a freeze at ChexSystems too.

Student, the link you provided to http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpre ... it-bureau/ was very helpful!

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:48 am
by blevine
One of the links provided had something that led me to believe maybe Innovis freeze is not so critical.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpre ... it-bureau/

"This is the area in which Innovis differs most from the other three national credit bureaus. Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion each generate credit scores based on the information in the credit reports they have on file for you. Innovis does not do this; you do not have an Innovis credit score at all."

If they do not publish a credit score, then Innovis is not a practical way for a lender to grant/deny credit.
If all they do is provide raw data, then the lender would need to have their own algo to score your data from Innovis.
Why would a bank bother with Innovis if they can get a simple 3 digit score that tells then to lend or not ?
I don't get the value nor why anyone would buy credit data from Innovis. What am I missing ?

I ordered an Innovis credit report just to see what data they have on our family.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:52 am
by oldzey
I froze all 5 (Equifax, Experian, TransUnion, Innovis, & ChexSystems).

:sharebeer

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:11 pm
by blevine
What about the two mentioned here :
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/two-cred ... edit-card/

This article is from 2015, but SageStream at least has a website that tells you how to freeze,
but it must be by fax/snailmail/phone, not web.

ARS seems to be a ghost, no info online at all as to how to freeze.

Not sure how important these are, but if we are trying to be "complete" are these worth freezing ?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am
by Angelus359
In theory, nasty criminals will go after whatever is least protected so those 2 micro bureaus
Freezing everything might be a good idea. Then again, I won't say my social over an unencrypted phone line or send it over fax, and I believe much of the mail is scanned through the envelopes...

Does anyone sell lead lines envelopes? Lol

Encrypted or bust, pretty much

Im still considering it...

So far, I've locked TransUnion, frozen chex, exp, Equifax, innovis

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:58 am
by wrongfunds
Both Innovis and ChexSystem told me that the unlock PIN code will come via US snail mail. Equifax gave me .pdf file for the 10 digit unlock PIN code.

How do Experian and TU handle giving the unlock code after successful freeze?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:00 am
by Small Law Survivor
Freezing Innovis much easier than the big three. You don't need to create an account, no poorly worded, obscure test questions ("what was your rent in 1995 ...")

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:00 am
by DaftInvestor
blevine wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:48 am
One of the links provided had something that led me to believe maybe Innovis freeze is not so critical.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpre ... it-bureau/

"This is the area in which Innovis differs most from the other three national credit bureaus. Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion each generate credit scores based on the information in the credit reports they have on file for you. Innovis does not do this; you do not have an Innovis credit score at all."

If they do not publish a credit score, then Innovis is not a practical way for a lender to grant/deny credit.
If all they do is provide raw data, then the lender would need to have their own algo to score your data from Innovis.
Why would a bank bother with Innovis if they can get a simple 3 digit score that tells then to lend or not ?
I don't get the value nor why anyone would buy credit data from Innovis. What am I missing ?

I ordered an Innovis credit report just to see what data they have on our family.
I assume since they are in business "someone" is buying data from them and I'd personally rather not find out via Identity-fraud who does. They don't charge to freeze so it seems better to be safe than sorry.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:42 pm
by PGR
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am
So far, I've locked TransUnion, frozen chex, exp, Equifax, innovis
I've sometimes used the words interchangeable and maybe you did to. But FYI locking is not technically the same as freezing as I've recently discovered.
Small Law Survivor wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:00 am
... no poorly worded, obscure test questions ("what was your rent in 1995 ...")
When they ask a bunch of obscure questions - I think some of them are fake question or throw-away questions.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:12 am
by Angelus359
I selected my wording carefully.

I locked, not frozen TransUnion

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:04 pm
by rkt
I'm afraid I do not follow the logic of: The bad guys will 'target' these micro bureaus. Bad guys have no reason to directly target a credit bureau (except to extract the information in the first place, which is already done). The credit bureaus don't provide credit with which bad guys can buy things. Bad guys will target credit cards, banks, or tax refunds. Since these organizations don't rely on Innovis to make decisions when a bad guy applies for credit with your identity, who cares what info Innovis has on file or whether they have a 'freeze' for you?

Am I missing something?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:09 pm
by patriciamgr2
SageStream was mentioned by another poster and also by a commenter on a Krebs' article about the Equifax breach.

I have read that SageStream is used by online lenders, but I had never heard of it before this week.

Have Forum members who have frozen their accounts at other CRA's (which I've done in the past) also added a freeze at SageStream? I'm now so paranoid I was worried this was just a ruse to gather info.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:44 pm
by 2pedals
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am
In theory, nasty criminals will go after whatever is least protected so those 2 micro bureaus
Freezing everything might be a good idea. Then again, I won't say my social over an unencrypted phone line or send it over fax, and I believe much of the mail is scanned through the envelopes...

Does anyone sell lead lines envelopes? Lol

Encrypted or bust, pretty much

Im still considering it...

So far, I've locked TransUnion, frozen chex, exp, Equifax, innovis
Why would you lock TransUnion and freeze all the others? Why not freeze them all or lock them all? What is the advantage of a lock versus a freeze?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:50 pm
by jhfenton
PGR wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:42 pm
When they ask a bunch of obscure questions - I think some of them are fake question or throw-away questions.
Experian asked us questions. In my case, 1 of the 4 used fake data, asking about an auto lease that never existed. For my wife, 2 of the 4 Experian questions were fake, asking which of 4 names was someone she used to live with and asking about a non-existent home equity line of credit.

Equifax and Innovis did not ask questions to verify identity before putting the freeze in place. And for Transunion, we signed up the account and "locked" our credit reports instead of freezing. There were no questions in that process either.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:15 pm
by Lynette
Thanks to all for the information. I've had a freeze with the three main bureaus for years. I had to lift it on a few occasions when opening a new bank account or getting a new credit card. It was really easy. I've also requested a freeze at Innovis and ChexSystems. I don't churn credit cards and don't plan any major purchase soon. I have no idea what my credit score is. I suppose I should order a free credit report one of these days. A few months ago I was playing round with Quicken and was supposed to be able to get my credit score. As expected, Quicken couldn't do this because of the freeze.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:34 pm
by BigJohn
wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:58 am
Both Innovis and ChexSystem told me that the unlock PIN code will come via US snail mail. Equifax gave me .pdf file for the 10 digit unlock PIN code.

How do Experian and TU handle giving the unlock code after successful freeze?
I did a freeze on-line at all five this morning. Here's a summary of how each handled the PIN.

Equifax - system generated PIN, need to print PDF for records, no email or US mail verification
Experion - same as Equifax
Transunion - you have to create a user account with a password first then initiate the freeze, self-select PIN, need to print webpage, no verification sent
Innovis - no on-line verification or PIN, they will send via US mail
ChexSystems - same as Innovis

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:48 pm
by neilpilot
BigJohn wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:34 pm
wrongfunds wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:58 am
Both Innovis and ChexSystem told me that the unlock PIN code will come via US snail mail. Equifax gave me .pdf file for the 10 digit unlock PIN code.

How do Experian and TU handle giving the unlock code after successful freeze?
I did a freeze on-line at all five this morning. Here's a summary of how each handled the PIN.

Equifax - system generated PIN, need to print PDF for records, no email or US mail verification
Experion - same as Equifax
Transunion - you have to create a user account with a password first then initiate the freeze, self-select PIN, need to print webpage, no verification sent
Innovis - no on-line verification or PIN, they will send via US mail
ChexSystems - same as Innovis
It seems that all of systems of the 3 majors are overwhelmed, and some users are reporting very different experiences. Just so everyone realizes that PIN generation, as indicated above, may not be what you experience just because someone else has. My experience:
  • Experian - I choose my own PIN, as did my wife. IIRC we had the option of a system generated PIN, but decided to roll our own.

    Equifax - Not sure if my freeze is in place, since it wasn't confirmed. I was not given a PIN or told I would receive one in the mail. However, since I didn't think that my freeze had gone thru I went online again, completed the online form again, and was offered the choice of a temporary or permanent lift to my freeze, which would have required a PIN. Does that mean that my freeze is in place? What PIN? What a mess.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:19 pm
by BigJohn
neilpilot wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:48 pm
It seems that all of systems of the 3 majors are overwhelmed, and some users are reporting very different experiences. Just so everyone realizes that PIN generation, as indicated above, may not be what you experience just because someone else has. My experience:
Experian - I choose my own PIN, as did my wife. IIRC we had the option of a system generated PIN, but decided to roll our own.

Equifax - Not sure if my freeze is in place, since it wasn't confirmed. I was not given a PIN or told I would receive one in the mail. However, since I didn't think that my freeze had gone thru I went online again, completed the online form again, and was offered the choice of a temporary or permanent lift to my freeze, which would have required a PIN. Does that mean that my freeze is in place? What PIN? What a mess.
neilpilot, I was typing quickly and failed to mention that Experion did give me an option of system or self generated. I choose system generated and was looking at that documentation when I typed this so our experiences are consistent.

IIRC, my experience with Equifax was that they were pretty explicit that the PDF file with the PIN was the only verification you would get and that nothing was coming via the mail. Not sure what procedures exist to recover a lost PIN but I'm betting it's going to be a royal PITA. My condolences.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:23 am
by patriciamgr2
Is anyone else doing a freeze at SageStream? No one seems to mention it - does that mean people consider it unnecessary? TIA for any help.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:35 am
by MikeG62
nomas wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:15 am
...I checked the Innovis website and it states: "CBCInnovis provides credit reports from the Nationwide Consumer Reporting Agencies (NCRAs), Experian®, Equifax® and TransUnion®, to its clients. CBCInnovis' clients are primarily banks, mortgage companies and other lending institutions and have a permissible purpose under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) to obtain credit information for lending purposes. CBCInnovis does not maintain a database of consumer information."

https://www.cbcinnovis.com/consumer-assistance.html

I would prefer to not give out my personal information over the internet (again) to yet another company if it won't really help my financial security. In view of the information noted above, do any Bogleheads strongly recommend freezing the credit report at Innovis?
OP, to your specific question, I did discover this write-up on Innovis from a CU.

https://www.cafcu.org/?Cabinet=Main&Dra ... dit+Bureau+

By the way, DW and I have our credit reports frozen at all three of the major CRA's (froze them about a year ago). We placed a freeze with ChexSystems yesterday. For the reasons stated in the final paragraph of this article ("Should You Worry"), we have chosen not to bother freezing with Innovis.

Unless someone has evidence to suggest broader use of Innovis in lending decisions (then is indicated here), we remain comfortable with that decision.

EDIT 9-21-17:

It seems the link I posted is not going to the write-up, so I am posting the write-up from that page here (Bold highlights added by me):

Innovis, The Fourth Credit Bureau
Much of the discussion of credit bureaus focuses on the three most commonly used agencies: Equifax®, Experian® and TransUnion®. However, there is another bureau you may need to know about. The company Innovis® is actually one of many organizations that gathers, stores and publishes credit file information. While your Innovis report will contain much of the same account information as your other three, the report published by Innovis is used primarily for compiling and selling mailing lists to other businesses. For example, if a company wants to identify people in a certain zip code that they want to make a credit card offer to, that company may ask Innovis to compile a list that meets that profile.
How to get the report

Like with your other three credit reports, you are entitled to get a free copy of your Innovis report once a year. You can access your free report by visitingwww.innovis.com or by calling 1-800-540-2505. If you find any errors in your Innovis report, you can dispute the incorrect information at the website.

How to opt out
If you wish to not have information from your Innovis report used in marketing lists, you can opt out at www.optoutprescreen.com. This precludes you from having information in any of your four major credit report files being used for marketing purposes for four years.

Should you worry?
There is some anecdotal evidence of certain lenders using Innovis reports in lending decisions. However, all available evidence suggests that these instances are rare. The best way to know which credit reports your lender uses is simply to ask. If they don’t use the Innovis report for lending decisions, your major concern is likely to be whether or not to opt out of being a part of marketing lists. That said, it’s not a bad idea to access your report and correct any of the mistakes within just in case you need to have a spotless Innovis report at some time down the road.

You can also get it to by typing “cafcu innovis” into a google search.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:20 am
by BigJohn
patricia, I had a similar question about SageStream and ARS which I asked here.
viewtopic.php?p=3535228#p3535228

About the only place I've seen these smaller companies mentioned is on the Doctor of Credit website. Innovis is a mixed bag but more frequently mentioned. FWIW, Innovis was the easiest to freeze and free so I went ahead and did that but stopped at the big three, ChexSystems and Innovis as the point of diminishing returns.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:26 am
by Blues
Big three + Innovis + ChexSystems is what I opted for a few years back.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:47 am
by patriciamgr2
thanks! as always, Bogleheads provide the best info.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:17 pm
by siamond
I was debating with myself about Innovis, Chex Systems and SageStream, and then discovered this morning that there are tens of micro credit bureaus... Where and how to draw the line is very unclear to me.
investor4life wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:39 am
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) has a list of ALL the credit reporting agencies out there. I found this on Krebs on Security.

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2016 ... panies.pdf
Back to Innovis, what they exactly do remains rather unclear. Their Web site doesn't say much. They are occasionally referred to as the 'secret credit bureau' (sounds ominous!). The only vaguely informational link I found is here:
https://blog.smartcredit.com/2011/06/20 ... it-bureau/

So I decided to request a report from them, to assess by myself what kind of information they do track, and how it was queried in the past. I requested it online, but will get the report by mail. And I did the same with ChexSystems while I was at it.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:24 am
by Angelus359
2pedals wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:44 pm
Angelus359 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am
In theory, nasty criminals will go after whatever is least protected so those 2 micro bureaus
Freezing everything might be a good idea. Then again, I won't say my social over an unencrypted phone line or send it over fax, and I believe much of the mail is scanned through the envelopes...

Does anyone sell lead lines envelopes? Lol

Encrypted or bust, pretty much

Im still considering it...

So far, I've locked TransUnion, frozen chex, exp, Equifax, innovis
Why would you lock TransUnion and freeze all the others? Why not freeze them all or lock them all? What is the advantage of a lock versus a freeze?
Freeze is 10$
Lock is free
I can unlock TransUnion instantly using a web UI with user credentials
Unfreeze is harder
Other bureaus do not offer the same service.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:16 pm
by geospatial
As many others have done, I requested freezes at Equifax, Experian, TransUnion, and Innovis. But before doing the same with ChexSystems, I wanted to submit a question to one of my online banking accounts first. I believe many bogleheads have taken advantage of the 11-month no-early-withdrawal-penalty CD option at Ally Bank. If that CD's interest rate increases above its current 1.50% before an existing CD matures, you have the option to withdraw early without penalty and open up a new account at the higher rate. However, I was wondering if a ChexSystem freeze would make this more tedious and even if such a freeze would potentially affect a more trivial renewal of an existing CD account. So I sent Ally this question and just received my response. The relevant part stated:
"A freeze on your credit report will not impact the renewal of a Certificate of Deposit account. If you place a freeze on your credit report, it will prevent a new application from completing. However, if you determine that you want to open a new account, you may contact the credit bureau to have a ?Global Lift? on your credit report so we can check your credit report. Once this is complete, you may place the freeze back on your report."
If my intent is to just ride out any CD interest rate increase and only take advantage of it when my current CD reaches maturity and I want to renew it, then I don't think the ChexSystems freeze should be an issue. If, however, I wanted to take advantage of a higher rate sooner and do an early withdrawal to open up new CD accounts at the higher rate, then I think I would have to request a temporary lift of the freeze. Just something to be aware of if any are still mulling this over. I haven't yet done a CD renewal though, so if anybody thinks I have this wrong, please chime in.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:45 pm
by siamond
geospatial wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:16 pm
If, however, I wanted to take advantage of a higher rate sooner and do an early withdrawal to open up new CD accounts at the higher rate, then I think I would have to request a temporary lift of the freeze.
So, to express it in simpler terms, buying a new CD would not be possible if one has a credit freeze at Chex Systems? If true, it should be noted on our new wiki page about credit freezes.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:49 pm
by geospatial
I've sent a new message to the bank asking for more explicit clarification in that kind of scenario, and also asked if they can identify which specific credit reporting entities are utilized. Stay tuned...

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:01 pm
by DaftInvestor
geospatial wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:49 pm
I've sent a new message to the bank asking for more explicit clarification in that kind of scenario, and also asked if they can identify which specific credit reporting entities are utilized. Stay tuned...
I don't know about Ally but as another data point for you:
I have opened 3 CDs at Synchrony and 3 CDs at GSBank.
Looking at my ChexSystems credit report I see I have 3 inquiries from Synchrony but only a single inquiry from GSBank so it seems Synchrony does a credit-check with each new CD while GSBank does not (they only hit me with the first CD opened - after that - they probably no longer need to since I'm already a customer).
Personally - I'm not sure why Synchrony needs to be checking on me for each CD. If I've been a customer for a while and sending them money what is their concern?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:11 pm
by Nicolas
I froze my and my wife's credit at Innovis on Saturday 9/9 online and yesterday we received our PINs by U.S. Mail.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:48 pm
by investor4life
Thanks for the info about Ally CDs. I was wondering the same and had posted about this a few days back.
What exactly does Ally mean by a "Global Lift"? A lift at all major CRAs (Experian, Equifax, TransUnion) or just at ChexSystems?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:39 am
by msi
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:31 pm
Freezing Innovis is prudent for three reasons:
1. If perpetrators have difficulties with the big three credit reporting agencies, they'll target Innovis
2. Freezing Innovis is free
3. There is no need to unfreeze Innovis when applying for new credit

Victoria
If there's no need to unfreeze Innovis when applying for new credit, then what value is there in freezing at Innovis in the first place?

I'm trying to understand what Innovis actually does, and what creditor would request a report from Innovis but not the three everybody knows. I had never heard of them before all this.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:18 am
by Caduceus
I can't seem to freeze my Innovis and the call wait times exceed 30 mins the last two times I've tried. Has anyone had the same problem?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:05 am
by AntsOnTheMarch
I get the sense that Innovis is unlike the big three and if you've frozen those, someone will not be able to open a line of credit in your name based on an Innovis credit report alone.
Since Innovis does not sell credit reports, you don’t need to be concerned about businesses making credit decisions about you based on their data. However, you still need to be concerned about the data they house about you and its accuracy. Businesses could be using this information to manage their current relationship with you, such as what’s in your wallet, how you use credit, how you pay bills, how much of your credit you use and for the purposes of pre-approved offers of credit and insurance. They use this for cross-sell and up sell purposes.
https://blog.smartcredit.com/2011/06/20 ... it-bureau/
That said, if the freeze is free, why not do it? The process was easy for me (online). Still waiting for PIN via snailmail.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:25 am
by DaftInvestor
AntsOnTheMarch wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:05 am
I get the sense that Innovis is unlike the big three and if you've frozen those, someone will not be able to open a line of credit in your name based on an Innovis credit report alone.
Since Innovis does not sell credit reports, you don’t need to be concerned about businesses making credit decisions about you based on their data. However, you still need to be concerned about the data they house about you and its accuracy. Businesses could be using this information to manage their current relationship with you, such as what’s in your wallet, how you use credit, how you pay bills, how much of your credit you use and for the purposes of pre-approved offers of credit and insurance. They use this for cross-sell and up sell purposes.
https://blog.smartcredit.com/2011/06/20 ... it-bureau/
That said, if the freeze is free, why not do it? The process was easy for me (online). Still waiting for PIN via snailmail.
You are quoting an article from 6 years ago - are you sure this is still true? I always check dates in postings - things change. I ordered my credit report from Innovis at the same time I did the freeze - it's as complete as the big 3. If Innovis "does not sell credit reports" how do they stay in business?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:47 am
by AntsOnTheMarch
DaftInvestor wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:25 am
AntsOnTheMarch wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:05 am
I get the sense that Innovis is unlike the big three and if you've frozen those, someone will not be able to open a line of credit in your name based on an Innovis credit report alone.
Since Innovis does not sell credit reports, you don’t need to be concerned about businesses making credit decisions about you based on their data. However, you still need to be concerned about the data they house about you and its accuracy. Businesses could be using this information to manage their current relationship with you, such as what’s in your wallet, how you use credit, how you pay bills, how much of your credit you use and for the purposes of pre-approved offers of credit and insurance. They use this for cross-sell and up sell purposes.
https://blog.smartcredit.com/2011/06/20 ... it-bureau/
That said, if the freeze is free, why not do it? The process was easy for me (online). Still waiting for PIN via snailmail.
You are quoting an article from 6 years ago - are you sure this is still true? I always check dates in postings - things change. I ordered my credit report from Innovis at the same time I did the freeze - it's as complete as the big 3. If Innovis "does not sell credit reports" how do they stay in business?
No, I am sure of nothing. Thus...
I get the sense...
I posted the information as I found it, fwiw. I saw the date. After all, it's right there in the URL. The fact that it's 6 years old doesn't invalidate it but if you have something more current, please post it.

Btw, I froze Innovis as well as the big three and Chex.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:53 am
by learning_head
geospatial wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:16 pm
As many others have done, I requested freezes at Equifax, Experian, TransUnion, and Innovis. But before doing the same with ChexSystems, I wanted to submit a question to one of my online banking accounts first. I believe many bogleheads have taken advantage of the 11-month no-early-withdrawal-penalty CD option at Ally Bank. If that CD's interest rate increases above its current 1.50% before an existing CD matures, you have the option to withdraw early without penalty and open up a new account at the higher rate. However, I was wondering if a ChexSystem freeze would make this more tedious and even if such a freeze would potentially affect a more trivial renewal of an existing CD account. So I sent Ally this question and just received my response. The relevant part stated:
"A freeze on your credit report will not impact the renewal of a Certificate of Deposit account. If you place a freeze on your credit report, it will prevent a new application from completing. However, if you determine that you want to open a new account, you may contact the credit bureau to have a ?Global Lift? on your credit report so we can check your credit report. Once this is complete, you may place the freeze back on your report."
If my intent is to just ride out any CD interest rate increase and only take advantage of it when my current CD reaches maturity and I want to renew it, then I don't think the ChexSystems freeze should be an issue. If, however, I wanted to take advantage of a higher rate sooner and do an early withdrawal to open up new CD accounts at the higher rate, then I think I would have to request a temporary lift of the freeze. Just something to be aware of if any are still mulling this over. I haven't yet done a CD renewal though, so if anybody thinks I have this wrong, please chime in.
FYI, while helping a relative for whom I manage finances, we placed a ChexSystems freeze (among others) and few days later were unable to open an account at a new credit union (CU wants it thawed first). So, the freeze did its job. Then, we proceeded to open new Ally CDs that you are talking about (they are a preexisting customer) online and those went through just fine.

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:58 am
by MikeG62
learning_head wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:53 am
...FYI, I placed a ChexSystems freeze and few days later was unable to open an account at a new credit union (they want me to thaw it first). So, the freeze did its job. Then, I proceeded to open new Ally CDs that you are talking about and those went through just fine.
Assume you were an existing Ally customer? If so, did you have other CD's outstanding with Ally before opening new CD's?

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:05 am
by learning_head
MikeG62 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:58 am
learning_head wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:53 am
...FYI, I placed a ChexSystems freeze and few days later was unable to open an account at a new credit union (they want me to thaw it first). So, the freeze did its job. Then, I proceeded to open new Ally CDs that you are talking about and those went through just fine.
Assume you were an existing Ally customer? If so, did you have other CD's outstanding with Ally before opening new CD's?
(This was not actually for my account; so I clarified in the post but...) they were indeed an existing Ally customer and did not have any CDs at the time of opening new ones (they had some in the past but doubt it matters).

Re: Is a security freeze at Innovis really needed?

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:09 am
by DaftInvestor
AntsOnTheMarch wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:47 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:25 am
AntsOnTheMarch wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:05 am
I get the sense that Innovis is unlike the big three and if you've frozen those, someone will not be able to open a line of credit in your name based on an Innovis credit report alone.
Since Innovis does not sell credit reports, you don’t need to be concerned about businesses making credit decisions about you based on their data. However, you still need to be concerned about the data they house about you and its accuracy. Businesses could be using this information to manage their current relationship with you, such as what’s in your wallet, how you use credit, how you pay bills, how much of your credit you use and for the purposes of pre-approved offers of credit and insurance. They use this for cross-sell and up sell purposes.
https://blog.smartcredit.com/2011/06/20 ... it-bureau/
That said, if the freeze is free, why not do it? The process was easy for me (online). Still waiting for PIN via snailmail.
You are quoting an article from 6 years ago - are you sure this is still true? I always check dates in postings - things change. I ordered my credit report from Innovis at the same time I did the freeze - it's as complete as the big 3. If Innovis "does not sell credit reports" how do they stay in business?
No, I am sure of nothing. Thus...
I get the sense...
I posted the information as I found it, fwiw. I saw the date. After all, it's right there in the URL. The fact that it's 6 years old doesn't invalidate it but if you have something more current, please post it.

Btw, I froze Innovis as well as the big three and Chex.
Okay - thanks. I apologize if my questions came out sounding snarky - that wasn't my intention. I, like many others in this thread, am surprised by how hard it is to find info on Innovis. If call times were not so long I would call them up and ask some questions. I find it odd that ftc.gov doesn't talk about them when they discuss thr big 3 on theirs site. Like you - I did do a freeze with them.