how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

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feh
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how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:49 am

Hi folks.

My son (a HS senior) is in college application mode. Most of the schools he's interested in are large, research-oriented public schools (think Big 10). Most of them are out-of-state, which makes them a pricey option.

He does not have a stellar GPA (around 3.6), but he did really well on the ACT (35). My question is - are these highly sought public schools likely to grant merit scholarships in such a situation?

Thanks.

Goal33
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Goal33 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:52 am

I had better stats and got nothing
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KlangFool
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:00 am

OP,

1) How does your son rank in PSAT?

2) Depending on which state that you are in, some in-state public university is more generous in giving out a scholarship. For example, in Virginia, VCU gives out the most scholarship. You probably could find out about this in college confidential web site.

3) It is dependent on major too. Some university will give out more scholarship for STEM majors since they are not as highly ranked.

KlangFool

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:00 am

It depends. But not as often as you may expect.

If you aren't reading collegeconfidential.com, especially their financial aid forum, you should be.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:02 am

When doing the college touring and also attending college admissions seminars, something stuck with me:

Expensive private colleges are selective with who they give money to, but they have all the money.

Public colleges qualify everyone to get money, but they don't have any money.

Better than a high ACT score is a background in crew. (you know....rowing). This is THE easiest way to get college scholarship money.
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psteinx
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by psteinx » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:02 am

1) Your general source for information of this type should probably be College Confidential (it's a different site, mainly a web board), not this board.

2) The overall field of maximizing aid/minimizing OOP college costs is a large, complex, nuanced field. Depending on how important this is to you, you should probably invest a fair amount of time researching this, and again, a good starting point is College Confidential.

3) There are various approaches of colleges to offering aid. The Ivies, IIUC, do not award merit aid - only need based aid (but they're pretty generous with this). Large publics vary. In my state (Missouri), there is a state based merit award for Missourians, if you stay in state, and I think the large in-state publics also offer their own competitive/merit scholarships. Also, mid to upper tier privates often discount/offer scholarships. Some state Us (Alabama in particular. I think Ol' Miss, too...) are known for strong merit based awards for out of state students.

4) An ACT of 35 is VERY good. And a 3.6 GPA, if it's unweighted, is respectable if perhaps arguably a bit underachieving in relation to the ACT score. The 3.6 GPA will likely be put in context of the high school your kid attends, and the grade distributions of others there. Many HSs no longer issue class ranks, but many of these will publish something showing the GPA of the top 5%, top 10%, top 50%, etc thresholds.

5) Another resource to consult is your kid's HS counseling department. They probably are knowledgeable not only about the process of applying and the likelihood of admission at various places, but also various financial options, the likelihood of getting a scholarship, and so on...
Last edited by psteinx on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

dbltrbl
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by dbltrbl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 am

While 35 is an outstanding ACT score, most public schools give merit scholarships to in state residents. Your son should get merit scholarship at all instate schools. Out of state gets dicey with many variables involved. May be a visit to a school s/he prefers and talking to finance person can improve chances. In my case ( 15 years back with my son) face to face visit with finance person did help. No harm in trying.

delamer
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by delamer » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 am

I don't have any direct knowledge of the big public research schools. But based on my kids' experince, the bigger outlier you are -- on the high side, of course -- the more likely you are to be offered money.

So, in your son's situation, schools where the average ACT is 32 are going to be less likely to offer him money (and/or less of it) than schools where the average is 27.

Many of the big research schools have honors colleges with higher ACT's than average and I believe more merit awards too, based on what I've seen with friend's/colleague's kids. So I'd explore those in his situation.

Again, just my personal observations.

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inthearena
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by inthearena » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:20 am

So I went to a BIG10 school and graduated in the top 3% of my HS class of over 700 with a 35 ACT.....

I got very little scholarship from the school itself, but was able to find quite a bit of money through multiple other sources. Local essay competitions, research proposal competitions, student-athlete scholarships for the state, etc. There is money available if you spend some time looking for it. I believe there are some sites/apps that are making attempts at highlighting all of the opportunity out there. If you classify outside of the middle-class white male pool there are even more opportunities. Good luck!

There are some schools that try to draw out-of-state kids by offering in-state tuition for high test scores (from experience I know Clemson is one)

Disclaimer: I was on a STEM track through school, but business when I applied
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spoco79
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by spoco79 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:37 am

College professor here

What state are you in? In some states, those stats would get you a full ride at the state universities. In others (North Carolina, Texas, California, Georgia) the lower GPA will hurt.

My niece just got $120,000 at the University of Alabama for a 4.0/31 ACT. She's in-state, and she pockets a couple thousand a semester after everything is paid for.

snowman
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by snowman » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 am

As others already posted, you need to go to college confidential website, you will find all the answers there. Spend some time on Financial Aid & Scholarships forum. Also look up individual schools forums your son is considering applying to. If you still don't find answers you are looking for, feel free to post, you will get good advise.

How did your son do on PSAT? If he made the NMSF status (officially announced next week but most states cutoffs are already known), he will qualify for tons of merit aid at certain schools (there is a forum just for that topic as well).

If you posted what state you are from, what schools you are looking at, what your EFC is, and what your PSAT status is, I could be more specific (and other posters as well).

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by blevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:29 pm

Expensive 2nd tier private schools may give you a partial scholarship that gets you to a similar cost as OOS public schools.
The GPA may hurt unless there is a heavy load of AP/honors courses and heavy extra curricular activity to explain it.

Top tier privates, the Ivies etc, don't give non-need aid, so the score wont help other than admission.

I know you want to know what to expect, but you need to know that the truly large scholarships have murky criteria that are NOT just
based on ACT/SAT scores. For modest partial scholarships, there are usually going to be many offers if you apply to many schools, but likely
only one full ride if you are lucky. I was shocked that "safety" schools still only offered partial scholarships, hence kids did not seriously consider those schools.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:47 pm

spoco79 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:37 am
College professor here

What state are you in?
Wisconsin.

In-state schools are a possibility, but aren't currently near the top of his list.

feh
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:48 pm

snowman wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 am

How did your son do on PSAT?
To the best of my knowledge, he did not take the PSAT.

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VictoriaF
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:52 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:47 pm
spoco79 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:37 am
College professor here

What state are you in?
Wisconsin.

In-state schools are a possibility, but aren't currently near the top of his list.
University of Wisconsin is an excellent school. When I was in Urbana-Champaign many of my ME professors came from Madison. It's irrational to pay out-of-state tuition for a public school if you have a good one in your own state.

Victoria
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feh
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:56 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:52 pm
University of Wisconsin is an excellent school.
Yup, I know. It's my alma mater. :D
When I was in Urbana-Champaign many of my ME professors came from Madison. It's irrational to pay out-of-state tuition for a public school if you have a good one in your own state.

Victoria
Interestingly enough, Illinois is one of the schools he's considering (very strong in 2 programs he's interested in).

I'm sure you are correct in this statement, although I'm personally conflicted (recurring thoughts of "settling" for a perceived lesser option).

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:57 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:48 pm
snowman wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 am

How did your son do on PSAT?
To the best of my knowledge, he did not take the PSAT.
Wow. Does his school have a guidance counselor? Do you have younger children?

The PSAT/NMSQT is a pretty important test, because of the second half of the name - National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. It can be a pretty big deal in getting scholarships. If he didn't know to take it, that would be a problem. Not that it will ruin his life, but it's a missed opportunity.

caffeperfavore
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by caffeperfavore » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:04 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:57 pm
Wow. Does his school have a guidance counselor? Do you have younger children?

The PSAT/NMSQT is a pretty important test, because of the second half of the name - National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. It can be a pretty big deal in getting scholarships. If he didn't know to take it, that would be a problem. Not that it will ruin his life, but it's a missed opportunity.
The SAT/PSAT is used a lot less in the Midwest. Not sure why, but many Midwestern state schools look at the ACT instead. I was one of only a few people in my graduating class that bothered with taking the SAT. Although, that was many years ago.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Rupert » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:06 pm

caffeperfavore wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:04 pm
NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:57 pm
Wow. Does his school have a guidance counselor? Do you have younger children?

The PSAT/NMSQT is a pretty important test, because of the second half of the name - National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. It can be a pretty big deal in getting scholarships. If he didn't know to take it, that would be a problem. Not that it will ruin his life, but it's a missed opportunity.
The SAT/PSAT is used a lot less in the Midwest. Not sure why, but many Midwestern state schools look at the ACT instead. I was one of only a few people in my graduating class that bothered with taking the SAT. Although, that was many years ago.
+1. Also used a lot less in the South. ACT is king here.

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teen persuasion
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by teen persuasion » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:07 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:48 pm
snowman wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 am

How did your son do on PSAT?
To the best of my knowledge, he did not take the PSAT.
Check with his high school. In this area, all students take the PSAT in grade 10. They don't sign up for it (like the SAT/ACT), the school simply administers the test during school hours on a set date in October, I believe. He may have taken it and assumed it was just another assessment test.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:08 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:56 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:52 pm
University of Wisconsin is an excellent school.
Yup, I know. It's my alma mater. :D
When I was in Urbana-Champaign many of my ME professors came from Madison. It's irrational to pay out-of-state tuition for a public school if you have a good one in your own state.

Victoria
Interestingly enough, Illinois is one of the schools he's considering (very strong in 2 programs he's interested in).

I'm sure you are correct in this statement, although I'm personally conflicted (recurring thoughts of "settling" for a perceived lesser option).
The goal is to get the best education possible, and that can be achieved with better opportunities in a "lesser" school. In the state school your son will not be under pressure to work and will have more time to dedicate to his studies. He will be able to work with university professors, do undergraduate research, and position himself for a better graduate school.

If he needs a car, he will be able to afford a better car that will not be breaking down very often. He will be able to pursue a double major. He will have a chance for a study abroad or just spend a summer backpacking in Europe.

The difference in costs, in my opinion, is far more significant than the difference between UoI and UoW.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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NotWhoYouThink
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:09 pm

There are universities who give anywhere from a few thousand to a full ride to National Merit Finalists, doesn't matter where you live. In addition, some companies give scholarship money to children of employees when the children are NMF finalists. And some money comes from NM directly. So there are a lot of opportunities you miss, it's not just about the SAT score. It is also used to qualify AA and Hispanic students for scholarships. It seems odd to me that a good student with a competent guidance counselor would not be aware of all this.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:21 pm

When I was applying to colleges (I went in 2004) I found I got money from smaller LACs but not the larger schools I applied to. For example I remember getting offered two separate scholarships to go to Franklin and Marshall--one was $25,000/yr and another one was $2,500/yr. I also received scholarship money from Lehigh and Fordham Universities--not as much as the above. Those schools offers brought the total cost of attendance down to about what an OOS public school would have cost. In the end I went to the most prestigious school I got into (which fortunately my parents paid the bill in full for me) however, if money had been a problem I would have went to F&M.

If you need money you need to apply to schools where your child is going to be one of the top students. It's very hard to be a top applicant at a University of Michigan/Wisconsin/Northwestern. The students who get that type of money at those schools are ones who likely turn down Harvard/Yale admissions.

financeidiot
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by financeidiot » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:29 pm

dbltrbl wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 am
While 35 is an outstanding ACT score, most public schools give merit scholarships to in state residents. Your son should get merit scholarship at all instate schools. Out of state gets dicey with many variables involved. May be a visit to a school s/he prefers and talking to finance person can improve chances. In my case ( 15 years back with my son) face to face visit with finance person did help. No harm in trying.
This is correct. Your biggest bang for your ACT score should come from in-state automatic acceptance and scholarships, though the importance of test scores does vary from state to state. Couldn't find anything specific about Wisconsin, but what I saw indicates there isn't much funding for merit scholarships.

Here's a chart that may be helpful for schools in your region that breaks down in-state and out-of-state requirements for merit scholarships. Couldn't find the last update date, but you could start searching for specific scholarships your child could qualify for.:
http://ocusd.net/images/home/Files/OHS_ ... Filter.pdf

With the emphasis on need-based aid and the easy availability of school loans, merit scholarships are harder to come by, especially at public institutions. You never know though, I got a large merit scholarship to a private institution that lowered costs to a little more than in-state. Apply anywhere that could be a fit and see what comes back.

anonymousboglehead
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by anonymousboglehead » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

This past school year, I went through the college application process as a competitive student applying to top schools (Ivies + Cal, UMich, etc.) with no financial need. I had friends in the same boat, many of whom were applying with perfect ACT/SAT scores, perfect GPAs, and top-notch extracurriculars. I can confirm that without financial need, the odds of receiving a merit-based scholarship at a top school are exceptionally low, especially OOS public schools (which often focus their money on in-state students) and Ivies (which don't give out merit aid at all). Many middle-tier (and a choice few top-tier) OOS public schools will give full or partial scholarships to OOS students that have done exceptionally well on the PSAT/NMSQT, but based on previous responses, it looks like that's a moot point.

The flip-side of that, however, is that in-state merit aid for top students is relatively easy to come by. I applied for and was offered a full scholarship + stipend at my state's "flagship" research university (which is middle-tier); I was certainly a competitive applicant, but it's not like I'm the smartest kid in my state. If merit aid is a must, focus on in-state public universities or low- to middle-tier private schools. Keep in mind that unless your child is a truly exceptional student (think top 0.1%), they will likely either be paying full-cost at a "reach" school or partial-cost at a "safety" school. It's up to you which of those options is preferable. I wish you the best of luck in this process, and feel free to PM me with any other questions! :)
Danny

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:44 pm

UW - Madison is a great school, which is tough for me to admit. I would think a 35 ACT and solid if not off-the-charts GPA would land a solid merit scholarship.

I had a 34 ACT with >4.0 GPA (A's in AP classes counted 5.0) and that was good enough for a full-tuition scholarship at your border rival, The University of Minnesota. WI has tuition reciprocity with MN, so I would also consider MN public schools.

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DrGoogle2017
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:56 pm

My kid got about $20-25k from Fordham university. Free application that's why she applied. Lots of AP classes and 4.0 UW GPA, top 1% GPA at her school. I would say only 12 kids out of 600 kids got that GPA. She had very high SAT score also, I think somewhere in the top 1%.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:58 pm

35 ACT should get you a full ride at an in-state school.... depending on the state.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by onthecusp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:58 pm

About 12 years ago my son had similar grades and scores to the OP's son. He was offered full ride at Ohio University (which seemed to be doing great things in their computer science department) and loans at Ohio State. He chose OSU and loans that he is still paying off (I paid off my share). :x

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by bubbadog » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:27 pm

My son received a $40,000 scholarship ($10,000/year for four years) at an in state public school based on a 34 ACT. He had very little extracurriculars and was in the top 5% of his class.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by HoleInTheAir » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Crazy to think that doesn't get you everything at some universities.

I was a 3.8 GPA and 27 ACT, and got a full tuition scholarship to a smaller, in-state public university.

Is he dead set on a university that won't give him a full ride? I lived at home while I went to college, so it was all covered. Has he considered something like this?

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:43 pm

HoleInTheAir wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm
Crazy to think that doesn't get you everything at some universities.

I was a 3.8 GPA and 27 ACT, and got a full tuition scholarship to a smaller, in-state public university.

Is he dead set on a university that won't give him a full ride? I lived at home while I went to college, so it was all covered. Has he considered something like this?
No decisions have been made. We've been focused on schools that rank top-10 in programs he's interested in, which has led us (primarily) out of state.

A considerable (in my opinion) amount has been set aside for college, so a full ride is not necessary. However, what is in the bank will not pay for 4 years at a $40K+ school.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:48 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:43 pm
HoleInTheAir wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm
Crazy to think that doesn't get you everything at some universities.

I was a 3.8 GPA and 27 ACT, and got a full tuition scholarship to a smaller, in-state public university.

Is he dead set on a university that won't give him a full ride? I lived at home while I went to college, so it was all covered. Has he considered something like this?
No decisions have been made. We've been focused on schools that rank top-10 in programs he's interested in, which has led us (primarily) out of state.

A considerable (in my opinion) amount has been set aside for college, so a full ride is not necessary. However, what is in the bank will not pay for 4 years at a $40K+ school.
feh,

But, depending on his career choice and major, a graduate degree maybe necessary. Not spending all the money for an undergraduate degree still make sense.

I just do not see the benefit of spending more for an out of state school when the flag ship state school is good.

KlangFool

feh
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:48 pm
feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:43 pm
A considerable (in my opinion) amount has been set aside for college, so a full ride is not necessary. However, what is in the bank will not pay for 4 years at a $40K+ school.
feh,

But, depending on his career choice and major, a graduate degree maybe necessary. Not spending all the money for an undergraduate degree still make sense.

I just do not see the benefit of spending more for an out of state school when the flag ship state school is good.

KlangFool
Good point, although at this time, he is not interested in a graduate degree. Of course, that may change.

123
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by 123 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:54 pm

I think sports-based scholarships are more plentiful then merit-based scholarships. Sad.
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KlangFool
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:04 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:48 pm
feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:43 pm
A considerable (in my opinion) amount has been set aside for college, so a full ride is not necessary. However, what is in the bank will not pay for 4 years at a $40K+ school.
feh,

But, depending on his career choice and major, a graduate degree maybe necessary. Not spending all the money for an undergraduate degree still make sense.

I just do not see the benefit of spending more for an out of state school when the flag ship state school is good.

KlangFool
Good point, although at this time, he is not interested in a graduate degree. Of course, that may change.
feh,

1) What is his intended major?

2) Money not spent could be used as down payment for the house.

I am spending 30K per kid per year for their undegraduate degree. Any extra money that I can afford is going towards their Roth IRA. Each kid has about 10K to 15K of savings/investment now. I am making sure that my kids will not live paycheck to paycheck.

KlangFool

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by shawndoggy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:08 pm

3.6 + 35 should get close to full ride tuition at several schools, but doubtful that they will be top tier publics, especially if you are out of state.

The exceptions being Alabama and Utah State, which are both very generous. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that come to mind from my son's college search last year.

My kid had unweighted 4.0, good but not phenomenal extracurriculars (four year varsity athlete), and 35ACT. Got two full ride (tuition) offers (one public, one private), and several decent but not spectacular offers. USC offered a whopping $3k.

He ended up at one of the full ride schools. Housing is still expensive. We expect to burn through approximately $80k on housing/food/book/incidentals, even after getting the fully paid tuition.

feh
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:10 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:04 pm

1) What is his intended major?
This is the biggest unknown at this point. He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). We've been trying to find schools strong in both areas, so that if he changes his mind he won't have to transfer.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by snowman » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:18 pm

OP,

Your best bet for merit aid would be UMN-TC if your son was NMF (the qualifying test is taken in October of junior year in HS). Check with your son (and/or GC) to make sure he really did not take it or took it but did not score high enough.

As has been pointed out, MN has reciprocity agreement with WI, so he would get MN in-state tuition rate. On top of it, if he was NMF, he would get Gold scholarship worth $10K/year, plus $1-2K NMF scholarship sponsored by the school itself. Total cost to you about $2K/year, plus R&B which at UMN-TC is very cheap.

Without being named NMF, Wisconsin is your best bet, by far, at $10.5K/year! WI does not give out automatic merit scholarships like many other flagships do, but your in-state cost is already at rock-bottom. For comparison, here in CO, the flagship (CU Boulder) costs $15.5K/year, and you would need 4.0+ GPA/33 ACT to get $5K/year scholarship just to bring it down to WI level. You need at least 3.8 GPA for the lowest amount of merit aid ($2.5K/year).

All I am saying is that it will be almost impossible to beat your in-state rate anywhere, unless your son becomes NMF and would be willing to attend UMN-TC, or lowered ranked school for free. You being in WI, I don't see the point of going OOS - you will be a full-pay at $30-40K/year, depending on institution (same way my kid would be in WI at $35K/year).

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VictoriaF
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:19 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:10 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:04 pm

1) What is his intended major?
This is the biggest unknown at this point. He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). We've been trying to find schools strong in both areas, so that if he changes his mind he won't have to transfer.
He can study engineering at UW, and with the money he saves he can study art in summer in Italy.

Victoria
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KlangFool
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:10 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:04 pm

1) What is his intended major?
This is the biggest unknown at this point. He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). We've been trying to find schools strong in both areas, so that if he changes his mind he won't have to transfer.
feh,

I think you should let him talk to folks that actually work in those areas. My son wanted to major in Physic. I told him that I would not pay for it. He could either double majors in physic and mechanical engineering or pay for his own degree in physic. After one year, he admitted to me that he is not a Physic major type of person. He dropped his major in Physic and focus on mechanical engineering.

<< He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). >>

There is no way that he is really interested in those areas. The personality type and temperament needed to work and succeed in each area are totally different. The more accurate statement is he has no idea what he is interested at this moment.

KlangFool

feh
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by feh » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm

<< He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). >>

There is no way that he is really interested in those areas. The personality type and temperament needed to work and succeed in each area are totally different. The more accurate statement is he has no idea what he is interested at this moment.

KlangFool
With all due respect, you are incorrect. Believe me, we have spent a great deal of time discussing and analyzing over the last 9 months.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:46 pm

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm

<< He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). >>

There is no way that he is really interested in those areas. The personality type and temperament needed to work and succeed in each area are totally different. The more accurate statement is he has no idea what he is interested at this moment.

KlangFool
With all due respect, you are incorrect. Believe me, we have spent a great deal of time discussing and analyzing over the last 9 months.
feh,

1) Can he spend years working on a problem but do not see any concrete result? This is what needed for a scientist. Care about the fundamental law of nature. Do not care whether it is useful to anyone.

2) Engineer wants to see the result of their work. They want it built. Want to know enough to design and build the stuff.

3) Graphic design -> Care how it looks but do not care how it works.

4) industrial design -> Care about how it being used and manufactured. Do not care about the physic and engineering behind the stuff.

The motivation is different in each area. It has nothing to do with what a person's interest/talent is.

KlangFool

Dottie57
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:29 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:46 pm
feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm

<< He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). >>

There is no way that he is really interested in those areas. The personality type and temperament needed to work and succeed in each area are totally different. The more accurate statement is he has no idea what he is interested at this moment.

KlangFool
With all due respect, you are incorrect. Believe me, we have spent a great deal of time discussing and analyzing over the last 9 months.
feh,

1) Can he spend years working on a problem but do not see any concrete result? This is what needed for a scientist. Care about the fundamental law of nature. Do not care whether it is useful to anyone.

2) Engineer wants to see the result of their work. They want it built. Want to know enough to design and build the stuff.

3) Graphic design -> Care how it looks but do not care how it works.

4) industrial design -> Care about how it being used and manufactured. Do not care about the physic and engineering behind the stuff.

The motivation is different in each area. It has nothing to do with what a person's interest/talent is.

KlangFool
In my experience, you are very correct in your analysis.

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Alexa9
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Alexa9 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:19 pm

A 3.6 GPA is not bad if he has taken tough courses and volunteered, done clubs, etc. How many AP courses has he taken? The intro classes can be taken at a community college if money is an issue although some people frown on it.

I would simply apply to as many schools as possible and see what they offer. Then decide whether affordable or best school is more important.

If you're looking at the Big 10 and Engineering, it doesn't get better than UMich. Berkeley, Georgia Tech, Purdue, and UT-Austin are also good choices. With a near perfect ACT, I would at least apply to Cal Tech, Stanford, and MIT as well.

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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:24 pm

Klangfool, that analysis has an appealing simplicity. But I'm afraid the analysis veered into simplistic. And it is overly broad and definitive, which is dangerous to do when describing people, and especially half-formed young people.

Perhaps, just perhaps, we can acknowledge that feh might know his son better than we who don't even know feh, much less his son.

Doubleeagle4me
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by Doubleeagle4me » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:48 pm

Ohio state will give you in state tuition.

KlangFool
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by KlangFool » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:30 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:24 pm
Klangfool, that analysis has an appealing simplicity. But I'm afraid the analysis veered into simplistic. And it is overly broad and definitive, which is dangerous to do when describing people, and especially half-formed young people.

Perhaps, just perhaps, we can acknowledge that feh might know his son better than we who don't even know feh, much less his son.
TomatoTomahto,

I do not know feh and his son. But, I do know that it takes a different kind of person to work on those kinds of job. They are very distinct.

<<which is dangerous to do when describing people, and especially half-formed young people. >>

I disagreed. Those personality type and traits are clearly visible long before that age. They manifest themselves with their hobbies and how they spend their free time.

KlangFool

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:46 am

KlangFool,

We can agree to disagree.

snowman
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Re: how often does high ACT score == scholarship?

Post by snowman » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:35 am

feh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm

<< He has interests/talents in the arts (graphic design, industrial design) as well as STEM (engineering, physics). >>

There is no way that he is really interested in those areas. The personality type and temperament needed to work and succeed in each area are totally different. The more accurate statement is he has no idea what he is interested at this moment.

KlangFool
With all due respect, you are incorrect. Believe me, we have spent a great deal of time discussing and analyzing over the last 9 months.
I believe you. Each kid is different, and yours is not all that unusual. I think what you and your son want to do is to pick a school covering all of his potential interests. I would also check with any potential school how easy it is to transfer should he change his mind later. Also, if he does get merit scholarship(s), make sure you understand T&Cs, especially when it comes to changing schools/majors. Scholarships covering any field of study are more valuable than scholarships offered by schools/departments he would lose should he switch majors.

Don't stress to much - it will all work out in the end, enjoy the ride. I wish you and your son good luck!

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