How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
LiterallyIronic
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:08 pm

How do you know that the person selling you a house really is the owner of the house? How do I know that I'm not going to hand over my down payment and someone purporting to be the seller just walks off with it costing me tens of thousands of dollars and gets me stuck with a mortgage payment for a house that I don't even own?

I've been in the house, sure, but that just means that my real estate agent was able to get access to the key in the little keybox thing. Sure, she could be a legitimate real estate agent, but that doesn't mean that she's not getting the wool pulled over her eyes.

The house is vacant. The sellers have supposedly moved to another state. I've never met the people calling themselves the sellers.

How does one confirm that they're not about to be taken for a huge sum of money?

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 11559
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Watty » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:08 pm
How do you know that the person selling you a house really is the owner of the house? How do I know that I'm not going to hand over my down payment and someone purporting to be the seller just walks off with it costing me tens of thousands of dollars and gets me stuck with a mortgage payment for a house that I don't even own?

I've been in the house, sure, but that just means that my real estate agent was able to get access to the key in the little keybox thing. Sure, she could be a legitimate real estate agent, but that doesn't mean that she's not getting the wool pulled over her eyes.

The house is vacant. The sellers have supposedly moved to another state. I've never met the people calling themselves the sellers.

How does one confirm that they're not about to be taken for a huge sum of money?

Title insurance.

Gill
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Gill » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:17 pm

Your closing agent will assure you receive good title.
Gill

LiterallyIronic
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:18 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:08 pm
How do you know that the person selling you a house really is the owner of the house? How do I know that I'm not going to hand over my down payment and someone purporting to be the seller just walks off with it costing me tens of thousands of dollars and gets me stuck with a mortgage payment for a house that I don't even own?

I've been in the house, sure, but that just means that my real estate agent was able to get access to the key in the little keybox thing. Sure, she could be a legitimate real estate agent, but that doesn't mean that she's not getting the wool pulled over her eyes.

The house is vacant. The sellers have supposedly moved to another state. I've never met the people calling themselves the sellers.

How does one confirm that they're not about to be taken for a huge sum of money?

Title insurance.
Yeah, I went through with that. Still don't think that proves anything. I used the title company recommended by my real estate agent. If my real estate agent was in on it, then the title company would be in on it.

Even if the title company was legitimate, all they did was send me an e-mail with a bunch of documentation (most of which I have no idea what it's talking about), that does include the names of the people that own the house.

But potential scammers could just easily look that up in the county assessors website and then claim that that's their names.
Gill wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:17 pm
Your closing agent will assure you receive good title.
Gill

Who? Is that someone from the bank?

vaught
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by vaught » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 pm

If you have a mortgage your lender will require the closing attorney/title company to do a title search and either issue a Certificate of Title or a title insurance policy.

They would ensure the proper owner conveyed it to you.

Sure, mistakes happen. And that's why title insurance is handy.

But flat out fraud by trying to convey the property when Seller doesn't own it should be caught pretty easily by attorney.

And if for some reason you didn't have a mortgage this is exactly why you should still be diligent and have an attorney do a title search.

Sandi_k
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Sandi_k » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:21 pm

The legal closing documents are notarized - which means the escrow & title company will require proof of identity from the sellers when they sign over the house. If the house is owned by John and Jane Smith, and the people who come to the closing don't have photo ID proving that, the closing won't go through.

vaught
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by vaught » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:22 pm

At some point the Seller will have to sign a notarized warranty deed conveying the property to you.

And the closing attorney will be cutting a check to the owner of record. Not some random person.

The closing attorney and title insurance company shouldn't have incentive to scam you as they're the ones on the hook in the event a mistake was made.

LiterallyIronic
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:23 pm

vaught wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 pm
If you have a mortgage your lender will require the closing attorney/title company to do a title search and either issue a Certificate of Title or a title insurance policy.

They would ensure the proper owner conveyed it to you.
So the bank I'm going through for the mortgage will have their own attorney or someone checking into that? I trust the bank not to scam me, but the random people making claims makes me hesitant.

vaught
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by vaught » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:27 pm

As buyer you likely can choose your closing attorney so long as they are qualified and have proper errors and omissions coverage.

But yes, the bank will be even more mindful than you.

Bottom line is that if you signed a mortgage on a house you didn't own (since the "Seller" didn't have title to convey) the bank would be stuck without any recourse. If you don't own the property you don't have authority to place a lien on it. So the mortgage would be invalid/void.

And again it would fall back on closing attorney / title insurance company.

chevca
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:22 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by chevca » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:51 pm

Geez, OP you need to relax.... seriously, you're going to drive yourself nuts if you think everyone during the process is a scammer or out to get you. There are laws that have to be followed for real estate transactions. If you picked Realtors and Title Companies thinking they would ignore these laws, you probably picked wrong. :happy

It's okay to be a little nerve wracked going through the home buying process, but you're taking this too far. No offense.

I've sold and bought a few houses in recent years and never once met the opposite party... buyer or seller. It's all done through Realtors and the title folks.

Relax and be happy about your soon to be new house! :sharebeer

fundseeker
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:02 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by fundseeker » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm

Pretty sure that'd require quite a conspiracy! Not saying it can't be pulled off, but your lender is probably more worried than you are about it being a legit deal. If you're really paranoid, you could probably do a lot of records research online to raise your comfort level. You are right to be skeptical, but there are many simpler ways for the crooks to get you. Sorta like the bogus calls I got today from the IRS saying I was going to be arrested if....

ResearchMed
Posts: 5326
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm

vaught wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:27 pm
As buyer you likely can choose your closing attorney so long as they are qualified and have proper errors and omissions coverage.

But yes, the bank will be even more mindful than you.

Bottom line is that if you signed a mortgage on a house you didn't own (since the "Seller" didn't have title to convey) the bank would be stuck without any recourse. If you don't own the property you don't have authority to place a lien on it. So the mortgage would be invalid/void.

And again it would fall back on closing attorney / title insurance company.
As long as there is proper title insurance in place, including for you and not just the bank, you should be fine.
We use a good real estate attorney for all closings, even though many here on BH don't seem to think that is necessary.
But the attorney will be looking for things that a real estate agent wouldn't, as the real estate agent has his/her own interests in mind, and wouldn't get paid if the house isn't sold.

The argument that "the bank would be stuck without any recourse" is only good while there is a mortgage, and only for the amount of money remaining to be paid. Once that mortgage is paid off, you get full title, and the bank is no longer involved in the ownership the way they are while there is a mortgage.

Mortgage insurance is relatively inexpensive, and the risks too great (even if quite unlikely), for us to forgo that particular closing cost.

In any event, there are quite a few steps where it would be difficult to get scammed with the purchase of an existing home, as long as you aren't trying to cut corners with the sales process, and this includes the real estate attorney.
That includes getting notarized signatures, even if the sellers are long distance.
(When we went through this, a notary was sent to our house, and the closing docs had been FedEx'd for that "signature meeting").

Added: Regarding what "vaught" wrote above, at most of the closings we've been at, both sellers and buyers (and/or their attorney) were present, with signatures galore on paperwork everywhere. But there were a few times, including due to distance, that this didn't happen.

Yes, it's a "big step", and usually the biggest financial transaction for most folks.
But even though it's a new thing for you, countless closings take place all over, every day.
Just go through regular channels, and you'll be fine. (No envelopes of cash exchanged for a "title", in some dark alley, okay? :shock: )

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17491
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:00 pm

fundseeker wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm
Pretty sure that'd require quite a conspiracy! Not saying it can't be pulled off, but your lender is probably more worried than you are about it being a legit deal. If you're really paranoid, you could probably do a lot of records research online to raise your comfort level. You are right to be skeptical, but there are many simpler ways for the crooks to get you. Sorta like the bogus calls I got today from the IRS saying I was going to be arrested if....
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. (Joseph Heller)

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

stan1
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by stan1 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:02 pm

What you need to worry about is wiring your closing proceeds to the right place.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... ing-scams/

It is a real problem. Your realtor/attorney, escrow company and lender should be talking to you.

mmcmonster
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by mmcmonster » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:07 pm

vaught wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 pm
If you have a mortgage your lender will require the closing attorney/title company to do a title search and either issue a Certificate of Title or a title insurance policy.
And for this reason alone, I plan to always take a mortgage when buying a new home. The added security of knowing that the bank is on the line for the loan outweighs the interest of the loan.

I just plan that I'll either pay off the loan in the shortest possible time or have a good reason for not doing so.

denovo
Posts: 3470
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by denovo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:09 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:08 pm
H
The house is vacant. The sellers have supposedly moved to another state. I've never met the people calling themselves the sellers.

How does one confirm that they're not about to be taken for a huge sum of money?

You're buying this home through an licensed escrow company? They're doing all the title searches, you're getting title insurance, etc? Then you're fine. I'd only worry if you're doing some kind of weird, irregular procedure where you hand some dude a check and they give you a quit claim deed.

The last home I bought, the owners were not there when we checked out the place or when the inspector came. Our agent delivered us the keys after they vacated. We never saw the sellers. I have no idea what they look like or who they are. I am not worried that it was a scam.

Drewman
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Drewman » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:14 pm

SO let's clear this up...if the OP wanted to actually pull this over on someone how do we accomplish this? :twisted:

stan1
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by stan1 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:17 pm

Drewman wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:14 pm
SO let's clear this up...if the OP wanted to actually pull this over on someone how do we accomplish this? :twisted:
Send someone an official looking email asking them to wire their life savings to your bank account.

LiterallyIronic
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:37 pm

chevca wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:51 pm
Geez, OP you need to relax.... seriously, you're going to drive yourself nuts if you think everyone during the process is a scammer or out to get you. There are laws that have to be followed for real estate transactions. If you picked Realtors and Title Companies thinking they would ignore these laws, you probably picked wrong. :happy

It's okay to be a little nerve wracked going through the home buying process, but you're taking this too far. No offense.

I've sold and bought a few houses in recent years and never once met the opposite party... buyer or seller. It's all done through Realtors and the title folks.

Relax and be happy about your soon to be new house! :sharebeer
Ha, yeah, I should probably change my username to ExcessivelyWorried. :)

LiterallyIronic
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:41 pm

denovo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:09 pm


You're buying this home through an licensed escrow company? They're doing all the title searches, you're getting title insurance, etc?
I don't know. I just know I went to Wells Fargo and did all the paperwork to get a loan. They're handling the escrow for the taxes and insurance. It's not Wells Fargo that I distrust.

As for title insurance, I have no idea what they're specifically doing. Aside from charging me $992 and sending me an e-mail. How do I know if I'm protected or just the bank?

OnTrack
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by OnTrack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:12 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:41 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:09 pm


You're buying this home through an licensed escrow company? They're doing all the title searches, you're getting title insurance, etc?
I don't know. I just know I went to Wells Fargo and did all the paperwork to get a loan. They're handling the escrow for the taxes and insurance. It's not Wells Fargo that I distrust.

As for title insurance, I have no idea what they're specifically doing. Aside from charging me $992 and sending me an e-mail. How do I know if I'm protected or just the bank?
There is lender's title insurance and owner's title insurance. The bank will require the lender's insurance. You should get the owner's insurance, preferably an extended policy instead of the standard policy.
Last edited by OnTrack on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OnTrack
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by OnTrack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:13 pm

duplicate deleted
Last edited by OnTrack on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
unclescrooge
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by unclescrooge » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:16 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:00 pm
fundseeker wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm
Pretty sure that'd require quite a conspiracy! Not saying it can't be pulled off, but your lender is probably more worried than you are about it being a legit deal. If you're really paranoid, you could probably do a lot of records research online to raise your comfort level. You are right to be skeptical, but there are many simpler ways for the crooks to get you. Sorta like the bogus calls I got today from the IRS saying I was going to be arrested if....
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. (Joseph Heller)

Victoria
The converse is also true.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not after me.
:mrgreen:

That being said, I've bought and sold several out-of-state properties, sight unseen. So long as you have title insurance, it's not an issue.

adamthesmythe
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:21 pm

For most people, the answer is title insurance.

If this still worries you, maybe rental is the answer for you.

jalbert
Posts: 2213
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by jalbert » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:39 pm

The process varies by state, eg in NY and NJ I think attorneys are involved, unlike most or all western states, but the proceeds of the sale should not be released to the seller until the transaction has recorded with the county of jurisdiction, and the escrow company should verify the identity of the seller who signs the paperwork with intent to sell. Title insurance guarantees you a clean title if the transaction records, or more accurately, the title insurance company is on the hook for the liability if you don't get a clean title. As a buyer, it should be sufficient to verify that you are working with a legitimate escrow and title insurance company (which may be the same entity or separate entities depending on the state).
Risk is not a guarantor of return.

inbox788
Posts: 4142
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by inbox788 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:57 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:00 pm
fundseeker wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm
Pretty sure that'd require quite a conspiracy! Not saying it can't be pulled off, but your lender is probably more worried than you are about it being a legit deal. If you're really paranoid, you could probably do a lot of records research online to raise your comfort level. You are right to be skeptical, but there are many simpler ways for the crooks to get you. Sorta like the bogus calls I got today from the IRS saying I was going to be arrested if....
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. (Joseph Heller)

Victoria
Harold Finch:
It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.

The first time I heard about the scams involving fake landlords collecting first month and deposits on apartments they didn't own (from various tenants and they all show up on move in day to discover the fraud), I realized that landlords generally do some vetting of tenants, but tenants seldom vet the landlords.
https://patch.com/illinois/oakpark/men- ... -didnt-own

I've not heard of this type of scam regarding sales, but OP is right to be concerned and understand where in the sales process that the seller is actually legit.

Coachrhino11
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Coachrhino11 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:11 am

Wow...can't believe this thread is actually still going. Paranoid just a bit?

User avatar
jfn111
Posts: 797
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:42 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by jfn111 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:26 am

stan1 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:02 pm
What you need to worry about is wiring your closing proceeds to the right place.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... ing-scams/

It is a real problem. Your realtor/attorney, escrow company and lender should be talking to you.
I'll second this. Verify with your Title Company/Attorney the wire information. Watch out for emails that give you different instructions than what you were originally given.

SimonJester
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by SimonJester » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:38 am

mmcmonster wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:07 pm
And for this reason alone, I plan to always take a mortgage when buying a new home. The added security of knowing that the bank is on the line for the loan outweighs the interest of the loan.
I just plan that I'll either pay off the loan in the shortest possible time or have a good reason for not doing so.
So instead of paying several hundred dollars for good title insurance you will pay several thousand in mortgage interest as well as several hundred for the required title insurance?

I believe this is the definition of penny wise pound foolish...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


User avatar
Index Fan
Posts: 2496
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: The great Midwest

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Index Fan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:26 pm

"When you don't know who the sucker is in the room, it is you."
"Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis." | -Seneca

Carefreeap
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:38 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:57 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:00 pm
fundseeker wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:56 pm
Pretty sure that'd require quite a conspiracy! Not saying it can't be pulled off, but your lender is probably more worried than you are about it being a legit deal. If you're really paranoid, you could probably do a lot of records research online to raise your comfort level. You are right to be skeptical, but there are many simpler ways for the crooks to get you. Sorta like the bogus calls I got today from the IRS saying I was going to be arrested if....
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. (Joseph Heller)

Victoria
Harold Finch:
It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.

The first time I heard about the scams involving fake landlords collecting first month and deposits on apartments they didn't own (from various tenants and they all show up on move in day to discover the fraud), I realized that landlords generally do some vetting of tenants, but tenants seldom vet the landlords.
https://patch.com/illinois/oakpark/men- ... -didnt-own

I've not heard of this type of scam regarding sales, but OP is right to be concerned and understand where in the sales process that the seller is actually legit.
I actually had a tenant try to make me prove I owned my rental. I told him how to check my name at the County recorder (CA doesn't allow on-line access to the names of owners due to a stalking incident of an elected official). At the time I could understand the concern. I was living in Germany at the time and was advertising on Craig's List. He was a Marine and I also gave him some Marine connections. Turns out that he was too lazy to actually follow up on my recommendations.

He turned out to be a terrible tenant. Although he paid on time he couldn't get along with other people in the complex (I actually got a formal complaint from the HOA). Mid-way through the lease his wife left him and the property didn't get cleaned for a year. I had to replace most of the carpet and he kept demanding a return of his deposit.

In hindsight I wish I had turned down this paranoid tenant. His attitude caused all kinds of problems for those who had to deal with him. He treated people badly because he was afraid other people would treat him badly.

O.P. Do your homework but don't let paranoia get the best of you.

Saving$
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:33 pm

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by Saving$ » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:39 pm

OP - The most important info in this thread is to ensure you obtain OWNER's title insurance.

The bank/mortgage company will purchase a title policy, which is LENDER's title insurance that YOU will be charged for, but that protects only the bank/mortgage company.

If you buy your OWNER's title insurance concurrent with the closing, you basically ride on the coat tails of the lender's policy - you don't have to pay for a separate title search, etc. You only pay the incremental added cost for the title company to insure you. The value of this insurance increases as you pay down the mortgage and your property value appreciates.

In some states, you can add the Owner's title policy up to 30 days after closing.

metrunt
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:36 am

Re: How do you know you're not being scammed when buying a house?

Post by metrunt » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:54 am

How do you know everyone on this thread isn't in on the scam too??
LiterallyIronic wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:41 pm
It's not Wells Fargo that I distrust.
You're worried about a stranger selling you a house they don't own but not a bank that has a track record of screwing over account holders.

Post Reply